I Like This Coach

[LHPfactory]

I was watching this video about Refugio Coach Jason Herring..... Some get pissed off because of him winning big, but I remember when LH used to do this as well. I totally agree with him and his wanting to prep his team to be champs, especially coming close and winding up empty handed a few times. Just like when LH was putting up 50 to 70+ in some games, I dont believe it was Vances intention to humiliate the other team, rather to prepare his team to win.

You can see the interview with Coach Herring of Refugio @ link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=uOhq0MSDoMQ&NR=1

Coach Herring in Refugio even agreed to have a running clock in the second half in a bunch of his games.

His intensity and high expectations are getting results, I dont believe its about the monster score, Someone recently disagreed with me about this coach and I asked what more can the man do? there was no answer for it..... What say you?

The reason I ask is that my 6th grade youth team recently played Llano and my 3 starting running backs got 1 play each in the first quarter.
1st play 1st possesion - Full Back - touchdown
1st play 2nd possession - Half Back - touchdown
1st play 3rd possession - Tail Back - touchdown...

This was after 3 and outs by the yellow jackets.....I pulled my first string back field in the 1st quarter.....now we are in the 3rd week of the season (we had a bye last week) and my first string back field have had 1 play each.... There are 2 other very good teams in our league that are running it up. I am now in a situation to where I must leave my starters in through the 3rd quarter to prepare my boys to win against these teams in regular season and again in the play offs and eventual championship.

Im playing Lampasas (who is struggling) this weekend and its honestly not about the score, I have to give my starters 3 quarters and my back ups 1, not the other way around... I have no desire to blow away the other team, but my first responsibility is to the kids I am coaching and preparing them to win down the road.

What say you?

[jason]

run it up.
maybe the other teams should work on their defense.
you're playing to win, not for participation trophies.

[stxfan]

Are we really going to debate about this again? Been done ad nauseam.

[Matthew328]

What level are you coaching at?? Is it really important to win a youth league championship?

[lange4]

Play in a different league. Why play in a league with Johnson City, San Saba, Llano (who by the way is playing without the lake kids so they are playing with Johnson City like numbers). You are close to Austin, play tougher opponents.

[Ernest T Bass]

Youth league football is about everything EXCEPT winning. Make sure everyone gets to play, and keep the playing time as equal as possible, and make sure EVERY kid is having fun and learning fundamentals. If the score gets out of hand, go with a running clock.
I agree, nothing wrong with what Jason Herring did, but his JOB is to win football games and championship, and he's coaching young men, not boys. Big difference.

[LHPfactory]

What level are you coaching at?? Is it really important to win a youth league championship?


5th n 6th Graders (Varsity for the league we are in). You should pose that question to this group of kids, they are talented and extremely dedicated. Several of these boys joined a strength and conditioning program (SKP)(taylored and specific to their age group) on their own in the off season. They are highly motivated and dedicated. So YES! I believe that this group will only fail if we as coaches fail them. At the end of practices they chant "Hard Work Pays Off", which happens to be the LHHS Varsity slogan this year. This group has always been good, even when split up... as 1st graders they tied as tiny mite champs in pop warner. As 2nd graders they lost in the Centex (unlimited weight league) championship (we are little old 3A and these boys were taking it to Round Rock, Austin, Cedar Park, Leander, Kyle, Manor....). After 2nd grade they were then scattered further as seveal of them (including my son) moved up as 3rd graders to the 5th grade team to play with their older brothers.

So YES it is the goal of this group of kids, to finish youth football undefeated champions..... They have worked hard for this, they just have to go out and earn it now.... It would be wrong of me or any of our staff to do anything that would jepordize what these kids have worked for.

I strongly believe that as a coach(s) we are obligated to teach the kids the game of football in a way that will grow their love for it, get the best out of each kid, continually raise the expectations, and make every effort to equip them to win as a team.

Just as Mack Brown said, "football is a hard game, you have to have a passion for it or you cant play, cause it will eat you up"!

[Matthew328]

Thats half the problem is at the youth level people are more focused on winning than player development etc.....of course you want to win, but winning at all costs, running it up etc doesn't do any good IMO...even at the JH level I think the focus should be more on player development etc....of course there's B and C teams at that level so its a little easier to manage playing time etc

[LHPfactory]

Play in a different league. Why play in a league with Johnson City, San Saba, Llano (who by the way is playing without the lake kids so they are playing with Johnson City like numbers). You are close to Austin, play tougher opponents.

I have been scrimmaging the Leander/Cedar Park teams and beating them, I am always open to a scrimmage with anyone, do you have a 6th grade team?

[ccmom]

Youth league football is about everything EXCEPT winning. Make sure everyone gets to play, and keep the playing time as equal as possible, and make sure EVERY kid is having fun and learning fundamentals. If the score gets out of hand, go with a running clock.
I agree, nothing wrong with what Jason Herring did, but his JOB is to win football games and championship, and he's coaching young men, not boys. Big difference.

Excellent post

[Matthew328]

5th n 6th Graders (Varsity for the league we are in). You should pose that question to this group of kids, they are talented and extremely dedicated. Several of these boys joined a strength and conditioning program (SKP)(taylored and specific to their age group) on their own in the off season. They are highly motivated and dedicated. So YES! I believe that this group will only fail if we as coaches fail them. At the end of practices they chant "Hard Work Pays Off", which happens to be the LHHS Varsity slogan this year. This group has always been good, even when split up... as 1st graders they tied as tiny mite champs in pop warner. As 2nd graders they lost in the Centex (unlimited weight league) championship (we are little old 3A and these boys were taking it to Round Rock, Austin, Cedar Park, Leander, Kyle, Manor....). After 2nd grade they were then scattered further as seveal of them (including my son) moved up as 3rd graders to the 5th grade team to play with their older brothers.

So YES it is the goal of this group of kids, to finish youth football undefeated champions..... They have worked hard for this, they just have to go out and earn it now.... It would be wrong of me or any of our staff to do anything that would jepordize what these kids have worked for.

I strongly believe that as a coach(s) we are obligated to teach the kids the game of football in a way that will grow their love for it, get the best out of each kid, continually raise the expectations, and make every effort to equip them to win as a team.

Just as Mack Brown said, "football is a hard game, you have to have a passion for it or you cant play, cause it will eat you up"!


Of course the kids want to win, no one is saying they shouldn't want to win. But as an adult you should see the bigger picture and realize its not win at all costs at that level. That's whats been constantly wrong with youth sports in this country, the goal is player development, learning the fundamentals etc...its been a problem in other sports with the select sport craze where parent coaches are focused on winning at all costs instead of what's really important at the younger levels...

[panfan]

Youth league is about development. Case in point. A certain unnamed backfield kid for LH playing curently was noticably fast at 5th and 6th grade, but didn't like to get hit. He didn't play as much as other kids on my team, but we got him in there. By end of season, that began to change and he was starting to deliver the hit rather than shy away from it. Now he is racking up some solid numbers on varisty in terms of rushing. The long term goals are to help these young fellas develop into quality football players. Some of those guys who were studs at 5th and 6th grade are now currently in the band. Point is, there are ways to do it so you get as much playing time as possible for all these guys. Hell put some of your little studly backs on the line and let them block for a few series of downs. Sure as hell won't kill them to learn what its like in the trenches. Might just be there one day anyway!!!

[WARHORSE84]

I agree with Ernest in everything he said, as long as all the kids are being coached properly and kids are having fun doing it. When this happens these type of teams and coaches win.

[LHPfactory]

We are 100% about developing these kids, in fact we are the first program in our area to actually teach the kids the system they will run in Jr High and Highschool.... exactly the way the coaches want it run offense and defense (no exceptions or moifications). That is the core value of this program. We only have an 18 man roster and 1 has a broken foot, so all the kids get plenty of play time. My starting backfield are the ones not getting their fair amount of playing time.

I dont think you know much about what happens in Jr High, The coaches are very dedicated, however, in LH there are about 4 Jr High coaches to up to 150 7th+8th grade football players. The LH coaches do a great job but have very little time to teach so many kids the system, technique, etc... I saw this last year with my oldest playing 7th grade football. I also heard parents complaing and whining about things in the stands. Instead of whining and complaining, a group of us decided to do something that would support the LH coaches and help the kids.... thats what we are about...(I have learned to appreciate the LH coaches even more, Teaching the Slot-T correctly is like building a clock).
Its not win at all cost, this group just happens to be very good and they want it bad.

[Ernest T Bass]

Thats half the problem is at the youth level people are more focused on winning than player development etc.....of course you want to win, but winning at all costs, running it up etc doesn't do any good IMO...even at the JH level I think the focus should be more on player development etc....of course there's B and C teams at that level so its a little easier to manage playing time etc

Agreed. 9th grade is grow up time, but anything below that is about everything except winning. Let the kids worry about winning, you worry about developing players.

[LHPfactory]

Youth league is about development. Case in point. A certain unnamed backfield kid for LH playing curently was noticably fast at 5th and 6th grade, but didn't like to get hit. He didn't play as much as other kids on my team, but we got him in there. By end of season, that began to change and he was starting to deliver the hit rather than shy away from it. Now he is racking up some solid numbers on varisty in terms of rushing. The long term goals are to help these young fellas develop into quality football players. Some of those guys who were studs at 5th and 6th grade are now currently in the band. Point is, there are ways to do it so you get as much playing time as possible for all these guys. Hell put some of your little studly backs on the line and let them block for a few series of downs. Sure as hell won't kill them to learn what its like in the trenches. Might just be there one day anyway!!!


Actually Panfan, my biggest stud running back spent the last 2 seasons as an offensive lineman... case in point "daddy ball" is a much bigger problem in youth leagues than "win at all cost coaching" in my opinion.

I also have a few new players who didnt like to hit but are progressing into dang good ball players (I love to see this in kids)... 1 is about to get a starting D-back spot after shutting down receivers from Cedar Park's Zone read spread in a scrimmage.
My son plays center, surprise, he would love to be the star full back but God along with hard work made him an a$$ kicking center, and daddy ball doesnt reside on this team.

Its our goal to develop every player and try to place them in a position that they are most suited for and will be the most successful at that given time in their development. We do this in a setting that will make them best prepared for the 7th grade football program they will enter. Heck we even follow the same warm up routine that the 7th graders do. We are honestly trying to duplicate every thing they will need for 7th grade and beyond. Our games are the same amount of time as UIL for Jr high.

That is what we are doing, this group just happens to be good, big, fast ,and strong.

oh ps Panfan, my "studly backs" rotate through strong end..... so yes they know all bout dat...... :)

[Grahamerica]

Boy, the title to this thread is misleading.

[BwdLion73]

Boy, the title to this thread is misleading.

LOL I was just sitting here thinking the same thing...:)

[panfan]

Im playing Lampasas (who is struggling) this weekend and its honestly not about the score, I have to give my starters 3 quarters and my back ups 1, not the other way around... I have no desire to blow away the other team, but my first responsibility is to the kids I am coaching and preparing them to win down the road.

What say you?[/QUOTE]

Sounds like the Win in inevitable. Spread the playing time around then. I agree, Daddy ball in youth sports is a killer, but that is not what this thread was about. Sounds like you guys are doing it right, and I wouldn't worry so much about the score as long as you are rotating players in and out, particularly if ya'll are stomping another team. At some point in time, the other team will have to step up against your 2nd and third rotations.

[LHPfactory]

Boy, the title to this thread is misleading.

I guess it evolved a bit, Maybe I should have titled it: "A Trophy For Everyone vs Win At All Cost" :)

[stxfan]

I guess it evolved a bit, Maybe I should have titled it: "A Trophy For Everyone vs Win At All Cost" :)

Your title would be wrong. Of the infinite number of arguments on this guy, I don't believe one side of the aisle is, "everyone gets a trophy." You are right on the second half of your title.

[LHPfactory]

"Sounds like the Win in inevitable. Spread the playing time around then. I agree, Daddy ball in youth sports is a killer, but that is not what this thread was about. Sounds like you guys are doing it right, and I wouldn't worry so much about the score as long as you are rotating players in and out, particularly if ya'll are stomping another team. At some point in time, the other team will have to step up against your 2nd and third rotations.[/QUOTE]---Panfan




I agree, and all the boys get plenty of playing time no matter how its going. I am just facing a dilema and have to figure out the right balance of giving the kids who earned the starting spots the most time, but I also dont want to demoralize a struggling team, they are good kids and coaches.

[LHPfactory]

Your title would be wrong. Of the infinite number of arguments on this guy, I don't believe one side of the aisle is, "everyone gets a trophy." You are right on the second half of your title.

I guess seeing you are from south texas, you have to play Refugio?

Infinate number of arguments? what should he honestly do at the Varsity Level of Texas Highschool football?
Should he bring his program down a few notches?
Should his players start kneeling the ball at the end of teh second quarter?
Should he play his 8th graders in the second half on friday nights?

Refugio is a great program and they put in the work to win, they have a leader that produces results. They are among the great programs such as LaMarque, Sville, Lake Travis, Celina, Southlake Carol, Katy, Tatum.... Its a combination of coaching+talent+hard work = success...period.

The reason I started this thread is that I read in the paper that Lago Vista (#5 in DI 2A) is hosting Refugio tomorrow night. I googled the team after reading the article and found the documentary on youtube. It looks like he is traveling to finde better competition this year....

But sorry: "I Like This Coach" and I bet his team and community love him....... So Dont Be A Hater.

R

He is actually pl

[monkey rolls]

Here is what i say.... Is it true, as all of your fellow youth football league coaches say, that you have had your youth football team practicing all summer and breaking the league rules of practice times and schedules? Could this possibly be why your team might be a little ahead of the others? Is this what you call teaching your kids how to be champs? Give yourself a reality check.. I am glad you don't coach my kid...

[Red&White_9x5]

Wow!! It is really hard to find the words to respond to this. First off, the fact that you can support or defend a coach who PURPOSELY runs up the score and humiliates inferior and weaker teams (who I will remind you are composed of 15-18 year olds) is upsetting enough in itself. I totally agree and understand that you have to have your team prepared and in the best shape possible to compete at the highest level and against the best competition. However the way he has chose to do this is not right. He is hiding behind an EXCUSE and there is no other explanation for it.

He claims he has to leave his starters in for a full 3 quarters (which by the way, this year he has gone on record saying he will leave them in all 4 quarters)
to make sure they are ready for a deep playoff run. answer me this: how does hanging 90 on a much less talented opponent make you better?? They would be better served running plays against their own 2nd team defense in practice than hanging 80 or 90 on some of this small, untalented teams. i know they have no control over who they get aligned into a district with, but they do have control on how they handle their business on the field. There is NO kind of explanation that will ever justify this type of humiliation. I am all for playing to win, but once you have it in the bag, show some respect. He may not ever get it served back up to him as long as he is in Refugio, but I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around"!

The next thing that makes this post ridiculous is the fact you bring pee wee football into the mix!! You my friend are part of the reason there are declining numbers playing the great game of High School Football. I appreciate all youth league coaches who volunteer their time to give young kids the chance to learn the game and have fun. But the ones who treat it like varsity football are useless. I am so sorry that your first string backs didn't get more carries against the Little Llano Yellowjackets, boo freaking too! I agree with another poster, if you want your STUDS to get work and be tested take them up against bigger competition. Instead of worrying about the kids who you know will be players next year in the 7th grade, how about appreciating the fact that some of your lesser talented kids got quality time on the field and may stick with the game and turn into good players down the line. You mentality is a HUGE negative in sports today my friend

[Bullaholic]

A lot of folks like to play Mr. tough guy until the whoopin' happens to them or theirs....

[monkey rolls]

This dude embodies everything wrong with youth sports...and he will never come to realize the error of his ways... I been around the game too many years and seen his kind too many times. It is really sad. He will never come to realize the negative impact he will have on kids who he is in contact with, both those on his team and those that aren't, because he truly believes he is in the right. I hope he proves me wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[LHPfactory]

Here is what i say.... Is it true, as all of your fellow youth football league coaches say, that you have had your youth football team practicing all summer and breaking the league rules of practice times and schedules? Could this possibly be why your team might be a little ahead of the others? Is this what you call teaching your kids how to be champs? Give yourself a reality check.. I am glad you don't coach my kid...

First post, monkey rolls, I must be good to get you to come out of the woodwork after being a member for 2 years.

A big fat NO! thats not true!.. We just joined the league and before the league rules were available to us (not using ignorance, we are still responsible) The big boys(linemen) were conditioning and lined up in formation for a few minutes (not even 11 kids were present) ..Another teams coach knew about this and told us to not do it agian, we complied. However after it was shown how good the kids were in a scrimmage, the rumor was started and we had to answer for it...period. The rest is rumor....period. This team did not practice,didnt do anything that would total to even a half of a practice, and darn sure did not practice all summer!

Which is the case in point: this wasnt started until this group of kids showed to have great promise, and that is when the rumor mill started.... and ultimately almost hurt the kids, fortunately the coachs in this league have great integrity, are fair and respectable.

But I am sure if (and big if, cause there are 2 other really good teams in this league, and all teams will be contenders) if the kids win it all the rumors will probably grow from the lie that they practiced all summer, to stating that these kids practice year round or something.

We are currently in 3rd place and others have run the score up on the team we are facing this week. I would never do that to kids, and have been discussing the dilema we face this week. I dont want to blow out a team who, is on the young end of this age group and has been unfortunate enough to face the 3 top teams in the league for their first 3 games. I actually am trying to figure out how to get my starters playing time and at the same time not discourage their opponent. I could care less about the league rankings other than play off seeding.


I would also appreciate you not spreading lies/rumors on a public forum. It demeans the hard work of this group of Kids.

[monkey rolls]

So your ignorance of the league rules is supposed to make us all feel good about you and how you coach little kids.. I refer to my 2nd post.

[LHPfactory]

Wow!! It is really hard to find the words to respond to this. First off, the fact that you can support or defend a coach who PURPOSELY runs up the score and humiliates inferior and weaker teams (who I will remind you are composed of 15-18 year olds) is upsetting enough in itself. I totally agree and understand that you have to have your team prepared and in the best shape possible to compete at the highest level and against the best competition. However the way he has chose to do this is not right. He is hiding behind an EXCUSE and there is no other explanation for it.

He claims he has to leave his starters in for a full 3 quarters (which by the way, this year he has gone on record saying he will leave them in all 4 quarters)
to make sure they are ready for a deep playoff run. answer me this: how does hanging 90 on a much less talented opponent make you better?? They would be better served running plays against their own 2nd team defense in practice than hanging 80 or 90 on some of this small, untalented teams. i know they have no control over who they get aligned into a district with, but they do have control on how they handle their business on the field. There is NO kind of explanation that will ever justify this type of humiliation. I am all for playing to win, but once you have it in the bag, show some respect. He may not ever get it served back up to him as long as he is in Refugio, but I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around"!

The next thing that makes this post ridiculous is the fact you bring pee wee football into the mix!! You my friend are part of the reason there are declining numbers playing the great game of High School Football. I appreciate all youth league coaches who volunteer their time to give young kids the chance to learn the game and have fun. But the ones who treat it like varsity football are useless. I am so sorry that your first string backs didn't get more carries against the Little Llano Yellowjackets, boo freaking too! I agree with another poster, if you want your STUDS to get work and be tested take them up against bigger competition. Instead of worrying about the kids who you know will be players next year in the 7th grade, how about appreciating the fact that some of your lesser talented kids got quality time on the field and may stick with the game and turn into good players down the line. You mentality is a HUGE negative in sports today my friend


Sweeping Judgements from someone who knows nothing about me, or what/how I teach kids. I have coached winning and loosing teams alike and have always done my best to prepare the kids for what ever they face. Its obvious that you may have had a bad experience with the Refugio Coach, I would not use his total approach in youth football, but he is a good coach and his high expectations are transendant to all levels of football, thats what I like.

Again, everyone fails to answer what he should do? Maybe end the game half way through the 2nd quarter?

[LHPfactory]

So your ignorance of the league rules is supposed to make us all feel good about you and how you coach little kids.. I refer to my 2nd post.

Actually its the lies being spread that are the problem and that is what you base your opinion on.

This and last week, I actually received a few calls from the parents of kids I have coached in the past, who are now in 7th grade telling me how they are doing and appreciative of the instuction I gave them. I have dedicated the last 7 years coaching youth football, and I do it for the kids. I have seen good and bad coaches, have had winning and losing seasons.

You are obviously upset with me or our team for something and have chosen lies as justification for the attack on my character and motives.

I dont need to defend my character or motives, rather ask the parents and the players from our current team. Go ask the 7th and 8th Graders who have played for me, ask their parents.... That will give you a better idea the kind of person I am.

Or are your feelings hurt so bad that you would you rather spread lies under a nick name on a forum?

[panfan]

Actually its the lies being spread that are the problem and that is what you base your opinion on.

This and last week, I actually received a few calls from the parents of kids I have coached in the past, who are now in 7th grade telling me how they are doing and appreciative of the instuction I gave them. I have dedicated the last 7 years coaching youth football, and I do it for the kids. I have seen good and bad coaches, have had winning and losing seasons.

You are obviously upset with me or our team for something and have chosen lies as justification for the attack on my character and motives.

I dont need to defend my character or motives, rather ask the parents and the players from our current team. Go ask the 7th and 8th Graders who have played for me, ask their parents.... That will give you a better idea the kind of person I am.

Or are your feelings hurt so bad that you would you rather spread lies under a nick name on a forum?

Well, until this thread, I didn't have any idea who LHPfactory was, but now I have a feeling I know, but not certain. If its who I think it is, this guy is quite a dedicated volunteer, a high quality individual, with character to spare. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but personal attacks are unwarrented.

[monkey rolls]

"...and he will never come to realize the error of his ways... I been around the game too many years and seen his kind too many times. It is really sad. He will never come to realize the negative impact he will have on kids who he is in contact with, both those on his team and those that aren't, because he truly believes he is in the right. I hope he proves me wrong, but I wouldn't bet on it."

I thought I would repeat it in hopes you understood it. Please be real careful with your words and actions around kids, at least maybe this thread will help you think about what we do and say around kids. I'm done now,.

[Matthew328]

Wow!! It is really hard to find the words to respond to this. First off, the fact that you can support or defend a coach who PURPOSELY runs up the score and humiliates inferior and weaker teams (who I will remind you are composed of 15-18 year olds) is upsetting enough in itself. I totally agree and understand that you have to have your team prepared and in the best shape possible to compete at the highest level and against the best competition. However the way he has chose to do this is not right. He is hiding behind an EXCUSE and there is no other explanation for it.

He claims he has to leave his starters in for a full 3 quarters (which by the way, this year he has gone on record saying he will leave them in all 4 quarters)
to make sure they are ready for a deep playoff run. answer me this: how does hanging 90 on a much less talented opponent make you better?? They would be better served running plays against their own 2nd team defense in practice than hanging 80 or 90 on some of this small, untalented teams. i know they have no control over who they get aligned into a district with, but they do have control on how they handle their business on the field. There is NO kind of explanation that will ever justify this type of humiliation. I am all for playing to win, but once you have it in the bag, show some respect. He may not ever get it served back up to him as long as he is in Refugio, but I am a firm believer in "what goes around comes around"!

The next thing that makes this post ridiculous is the fact you bring pee wee football into the mix!! You my friend are part of the reason there are declining numbers playing the great game of High School Football. I appreciate all youth league coaches who volunteer their time to give young kids the chance to learn the game and have fun. But the ones who treat it like varsity football are useless. I am so sorry that your first string backs didn't get more carries against the Little Llano Yellowjackets, boo freaking too! I agree with another poster, if you want your STUDS to get work and be tested take them up against bigger competition. Instead of worrying about the kids who you know will be players next year in the 7th grade, how about appreciating the fact that some of your lesser talented kids got quality time on the field and may stick with the game and turn into good players down the line. You mentality is a HUGE negative in sports today my friend


When it comes to Herring and Refugio, I got no problem with his starters playing 3 or 4 quarters....its valid reasoning...what I did have an issue with was the play calling, timeouts etc in the 3rd and 4th quarters of blowouts...if you are running dive with your starters in the 3rd/4th quarter and you are scoring..I got no problem with it...but onside kicks, double reverse passes, etc was over the line

[greendawg84]

Well, until this thread, I didn't have any idea who LHPfactory was, but now I have a feeling I know, but not certain. If its who I think it is, this guy is quite a dedicated volunteer, a high quality individual, with character to spare. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but personal attacks are unwarrented.

Agreed , if it is who I think it is , he has coached my son also , AND I agree that he is a VERY dedicated person that only has the best for the kids in mind. If you dont agree you can always PM him , that way he could meet you and discuss it in person and not on a public forum.

[LHPfactory]

Thank you both, Greendawg and Panfan.

[ronwx5x]

Are we really going to debate about this again? Been done ad nauseam.

How can you be nauseous with only 23 posts?

[LHPfactory]

When it comes to Herring and Refugio, I got no problem with his starters playing 3 or 4 quarters....its valid reasoning...what I did have an issue with was the play calling, timeouts etc in the 3rd and 4th quarters of blowouts...if you are running dive with your starters in the 3rd/4th quarter and you are scoring..I got no problem with it...but onside kicks, double reverse passes, etc was over the line


I didnt know about the onside kicks, time outs, and the double reverse stuff, I agree that that is to much when you are way up. I only know what I saw in the documentary which detailed that for 3 or 4 years he has pulled out his starters after the second quarter, but had to play them through the third quarter in 2011 after coming up short in the semis in 2010. Dont recall if there was anything about the onside kicks and such in the documentary, unless i missed it. I said "I like this coach" and it was based on what I saw in the documentary, Looks like a motivated coach with high expectations for his team.

Either way he squeaked out the 2011 championship last year 36-35 against a stout Cisco team. He is in southtexas and I bet he would perfer to play Cisco, Tatum, Cameron Yoe, Lexington, Rogers, and Blanco level teams every week. But he doesnt have that option in South Texas.

[coachc45]

I didnt know about the onside kicks, time outs, and the double reverse stuff, I agree that that is to much when you are way up. I only know what I saw in the documentary which detailed that for 3 or 4 years he has pulled out his starters after the second quarter, but had to play them through the third quarter in 2011 after coming up short in the semis in 2010. Dont recall if there was anything about the onside kicks and such in the documentary, unless i missed it. I said "I like this coach" and it was based on what I saw in the documentary, Looks like a motivated coach with high expectations for his team.

Either way he squeaked out the 2011 championship last year 36-35 against a stout Cisco team. He is in southtexas and I bet he would perfer to play Cisco, Tatum, Cameron Yoe, Lexington, Rogers, and Blanco level teams every week. But he doesnt have that option in South Texas.

I have mixed feelings about Herring....but I agree wholeheartedly with my buddy ET Bass! Anything youth should be focused on development and equal playing time! Winning should be only important after everyone has played equally.

[panfan]

When it comes to Herring and Refugio, I got no problem with his starters playing 3 or 4 quarters....its valid reasoning...what I did have an issue with was the play calling, timeouts etc in the 3rd and 4th quarters of blowouts...if you are running dive with your starters in the 3rd/4th quarter and you are scoring..I got no problem with it...but onside kicks, double reverse passes, etc was over the line

I can't base an opinion on anything but the video, but a coach who is whippin my ass 60 something to zip whoopin and hollerin on the next TD by his team is not showing much class. Sure, it can and will continue to occur. But be humble victors, not arrogant. Other than that, if you are this guy and you have the goods in terms of players, and you are reelin it in some, and they still cant stop you, then what do you do???

[toddg]

Well, until this thread, I didn't have any idea who LHPfactory was, but now I have a feeling I know, but not certain. If its who I think it is, this guy is quite a dedicated volunteer, a high quality individual, with character to spare. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but personal attacks are unwarrented.

sounds like a good guy to me!! he can coach my kids anytime!

[LionFan72]

obviously, there are some dads here with their feelings hurt. Well sorry! The game is played to have a winner and loser!! If you lose by 1 point or 90, it is just a loss and that means your "losing" team needs to improve to be more competative or winning. WTH is going on with your thinking. Losing is not what you play for, winning is the goal. Don't lose focus of the goal, just playing is not a goal!

[coachc45]

obviously, there are some dads here with their feelings hurt. Well sorry! The game is played to have a winner and loser!! If you lose by 1 point or 90, it is just a loss and that means your "losing" team needs to improve to be more competative or winning. WTH is going on with your thinking. Losing is not what you play for, winning is the goal. Don't lose focus of the goal, just playing is not a goal!

You are right....At a certain age. k-6 grade is not that age. Heck 7th and 8th isn't either! The goal of every youth program should be to teach the game. Winning is a by-product of teaching the game. Any youth coach who thinks it is about winning needs to re-evaluate their priorities. You are a volunteer, the kids PAY to play. Teach all of them, play all of them equally, give them their money's worth!!! You never know which kid on your team will develop into an NFL caliber player..... would be a shame to run him off before he develops!!!!

[Matthew328]

You are right....At a certain age. k-6 grade is not that age. Heck 7th and 8th isn't either! The goal of every youth program should be to teach the game. Winning is a by-product of teaching the game. Any youth coach who thinks it is about winning needs to re-evaluate their priorities. You are a volunteer, the kids PAY to play. Teach all of them, play all of them equally, give them their money's worth!!! You never know which kid on your team will develop into an NFL caliber player..... would be a shame to run him off before he develops!!!!

This!!

LHPFactory, it sounds like you are at least saying the right things about development, fun etc....if you only have 18 kids then honestly you dont have a ton of options for playing other guys as is...if you are kicking someone's butt, let your studs play a half and maybe a possesion of the third..then start subbing liberally...if league rules allow, let your lineman run the ball, etc..mix it up etc...do what you can to get your kids the work in w/o humiliating the kids on the other side..I think that rule applies even to varsity level....

[LHPfactory]

This!!

LHPFactory, it sounds like you are at least saying the right things about development, fun etc....if you only have 18 kids then honestly you dont have a ton of options for playing other guys as is...if you are kicking someone's butt, let your studs play a half and maybe a possesion of the third..then start subbing liberally...if league rules allow, let your lineman run the ball, etc..mix it up etc...do what you can to get your kids the work in w/o humiliating the kids on the other side..I think that rule applies even to varsity level....

I do, 2 of my 3 second string running backs are new to the back field and this is the first year they have been in a backfield. We are working on developing them along with every other kid on the team. We also have 3 - 6th grade boys who are playing their first year of football (1 is my back up QB, great kid and very smart, has the work ethic and aptitude to do well as he progresses and settles in), It has been awsome to help all 3 progress. They have just hit the point where all 3 now have earned starting spots. Yes I said earned, they are great kids and I am very proud of how they have progressed. I believe its very important for each kid to earn a spot, It enforces a sense of accomplishment for thier hard work, both mentally and physically.

As far as winning goes, I can honestly say I have never coached kids who dont want to win, even in scirmmages they will keep score! All I have to do in a scrimmage is ask 1 of my players how many touchdowns we have and they know exactly what we have and exactly what the other team has. Last year my youngest was playing K basketball in the community league, there was no score kept, but guess what, these 5 and 6 year olds know who has what, they want to win, its natural.

I believe it is my responsibility to teach the kids the fundamentals and techniques properly and safely. I am responsible for developing all players and put lots of time in to that for all the kids.

But as a coach I honestly believe I also have an obligation to the kids to equip them to win, to encourage their competative spirit, and place each young athlete in a spot that will put the team in the best position to win.

[BwdLion73]

I agree with LHPfactory, looking at it from a different perspective my two boys (long ago) went through church league, 6th grade, Junior high and on to high school playing ball. While I understand there are the dolly do gooders who feel that the child must go through life without any failure or stress. I still remember the conversations coming from their bedrooms about who beat who, scores, and who sucked. Now long grown and on their own when the conversation on holidays turn to sports they will still talk about plays and kids from the past. I never get tired of the story of when the oldest thru a touchdown pass to the youngest in a game. They say "Just like we did it in the backyard"! I also hear about some bitter losses to teams. They may say man they killed us but they dont seem scared just mad that they did not play better. Let the kids play!

[Matthew328]

I agree with LHPfactory, looking at it from a different perspective my two boys (long ago) went through church league, 6th grade, Junior high and on to high school playing ball. While I understand there are the dolly do gooders who feel that the child must go through life without any failure or stress. I still remember the conversations coming from their bedrooms about who beat who, scores, and who sucked. Now long grown and on their own when the conversation on holidays turn to sports they will still talk about plays and kids from the past. I never get tired of the story of when the oldest thru a touchdown pass to the youngest in a game. They say "Just like we did it in the backyard"! I also hear about some bitter losses to teams. They may say man they killed us but they dont seem scared just mad that they did not play better. Let the kids play!

Wanting to win and be competitive is one thing, but player development is key at a young age....maturity rates are different etc...that kid who is tiny could wind up being the start RB in 8-10 years on varsity, but by benching him not playing him etc he wound up quitting football and ended up being a turd who hangs out in the halls causing trouble.....its an extreme example but there's a fine line between wanting to win/player development/daddy ball win at all costs

[Dub-C]

I had a good friend of mine (who is a coach) not to let my boy play any football league before he gets to jr. High cause the coaches spent more time trying to break bad habits they developed in league ball. So I listened, in seventh grade he was one the B-team and wasn't really a starter but slowly developed into one. Eight grade year, he made the A-team was pretty good and still learning. This year as a freshman he is on the JV as one of the QB's and linebackers. So, I believe that if the kids are gonna play league ball let them play and have fun because you never know who will be a good player later on when it really counts for them. Just my opinion.

[BEAST]

I had a good friend of mine (who is a coach) not to let my boy play any football league before he gets to jr. High cause the coaches spent more time trying to break bad habits they developed in league ball. So I listened, in seventh grade he was one the B-team and wasn't really a starter but slowly developed into one. Eight grade year, he made the A-team was pretty good and still learning. This year as a freshman he is on the JV as one of the QB's and linebackers. So, I believe that if the kids are gonna play league ball let them play and have fun because you never know who will be a good player later on when it really counts for them. Just my opinion.


Exactly. I have had numerous coaches tell me the same thing. I coach my oldest sons team. We use the exact offense and defense as the Junior High uses. Everybody plays. We win some and lose some but we teach fundamentals out the rear. Tackling, blocking, etc.




BEAST

[LHPfactory]

I had a good friend of mine (who is a coach) not to let my boy play any football league before he gets to jr. High cause the coaches spent more time trying to break bad habits they developed in league ball. So I listened, in seventh grade he was one the B-team and wasn't really a starter but slowly developed into one. Eight grade year, he made the A-team was pretty good and still learning. This year as a freshman he is on the JV as one of the QB's and linebackers. So, I believe that if the kids are gonna play league ball let them play and have fun because you never know who will be a good player later on when it really counts for them. Just my opinion.

You have to be selective with the youth league coaches if you let them play. My 1st Grader wanted to play this year, but I am making him wait till next year when I can be involved and make sure he is taught properly and safely. This year after summer practices ended we decided to go to only 1 full pad/contact practice per week and the rest with helmets only. The boys are more aggressive and hungry to hit during contact practice, hopefully on game day as well.

I dont know how many kids are playing at WC in 7th grade but I bet the kid to coach ratio is high like most Jr Highs, they really dont get alot of skill/technique instruction, however, what they do get is correct (not knocking the coaches, I am amazed at what they accomplish with what little time and few coaches they have) . The kids who have good instruction before 7th grade will be at an advantage, but I would rather have my kid not play youth ball at all if the coaching isnt sound.

Your boy sounds like a good athlete, which in time he was able to catch up with the experience some kids may have started off with, God given + hard work will get you there for sure. My oldest plays the same spots on 8th grade A team up here, he likes LB best though.

[LionFan72]

You are right....At a certain age. k-6 grade is not that age. Heck 7th and 8th isn't either! The goal of every youth program should be to teach the game. Winning is a by-product of teaching the game. Any youth coach who thinks it is about winning needs to re-evaluate their priorities. You are a volunteer, the kids PAY to play. Teach all of them, play all of them equally, give them their money's worth!!! You never know which kid on your team will develop into an NFL caliber player..... would be a shame to run him off before he develops!!!!

Agreed....fundamentals before winning pre 7th grade. I am just sick of this crap about everyone is a winner, because that is not life. Why teach everyone is a winner only to be kicked in the teeth later?? Adversity builds character!

[ziggy29]

Agreed....fundamentals before winning pre 7th grade. I am just sick of this crap about everyone is a winner, because that is not life. Why teach everyone is a winner only to be kicked in the teeth later?? Adversity builds character!
I think it's something you slowly develop over time (disclaimer: I'm not a parent). Take Little League baseball, for example. I have no problem with not emphasizing the scoreboard with a 6-year-old T-baller. Showing up, learning the game, learning fundamentals and teamwork, at that level I think that should be the emphasis. But by the time they reach adolescence I think they need to start seeing that life (not just sports, but all of life) has winners and losers, whether we like it or not, so we need to start adopting the mindset and work ethic of a winner. At some point, kids need to learn that their professors and their bosses don't care about their self-esteem.

[zebrablue2]

Youth league football is about everything EXCEPT winning. Make sure everyone gets to play, and keep the playing time as equal as possible, and make sure EVERY kid is having fun and learning fundamentals. If the score gets out of hand, go with a running clock.
I agree, nothing wrong with what Jason Herring did, but his JOB is to win football games and championship, and he's coaching young men, not boys. Big difference.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[big daddy russ]

...I am just sick of this crap about everyone is a winner, because that is not life. Why teach everyone is a winner only to be kicked in the teeth later?? Adversity builds character!
Because some kids grow up without ever getting that win.

[LH Panther Mom]

I also heard parents complaing and whining about things in the stands.
Just so you know, parents complaining and whining happens at every level. There was a bunch of us Friday in Dallas at the UIW/ENMU game. (Ex: do we have just one person on the OL that knows how to RUN block? Is it pathetic when your QB is the best blocker? You get the picture! lol)

You just might be the only youth league coach I know that has assigned his players homework that shows them HOW to play their specific position. (Wonder if I could make that suggestion???? :D )


LHP - from what I know of the league & your team, you are teaching kids the fundamentals that will help make them successful at the next level (i.e. 7th grade). They're learning the right way to play, are learning the "LH system", and given the opportunity to succeed & have fun. And really, having fun is what it should be about, in the end.

[HSFB]

Just damn weird....ugh...this whole dang thread is about some youth league coach wanting a pat on the back.....so here goes....at a boy LHPfactory you da man.

[neurotoxin]

Here is what i say.... Is it true, as all of your fellow youth football league coaches say, that you have had your youth football team practicing all summer and breaking the league rules of practice times and schedules? Could this possibly be why your team might be a little ahead of the others? Is this what you call teaching your kids how to be champs? Give yourself a reality check.. I am glad you don't coach my kid...

Maybe I can help put some of this to rest, our boys were tired of being on loosing teams in the past that were out played (and more importantly) out coached, and decided to do something about it. The linemen got together and decided to work out 2 x's a week to get in shape during the preseason, running gassers, flipping tires and circuit training on a strictly volunteer basis. This group of boys pulled together as a team and dedicated themselves to the sport they love and enjoy playing, and as a result have done a fantastic job this season. As coaches we aren't measured by wins or losses, we're measured by these three things, and these three thing alone:

1). That the boys learn the game of football (they have) they had to learn a completely new and complicated style of offense and defense this year and have almost mastered it.

2). That they all have fun (they are)

3). And lastly, that they want to continue playing the game of football. (and they will) Look for them next year, and in future years under the light in LH)

I'm sure if you asked any player or parent on this team if we as coaches have accomplished these 3 goals you would get an overwhelming yes! There is no "Daddy Ball" on this team because we all agreed we would do what was best for the team, not what was best for any individual player on the team. As a result the decision was made early on that no coach would have any input as to where their kid played, or how much they played, and it shows. This is a special group of boys (the best athletes in LH by far) that have suffered in years past, have worked hard to get to where they are today, and deserve to be where they are because they earned it, simple as that. I'm not sure if you've had an opportunity to see this group boy's practice or play this season, but if you did, you may just learn something.

[ogg]

I was watching this video about Refugio Coach Jason Herring..... Some get pissed off because of him winning big, but I remember when LH used to do this as well. I totally agree with him and his wanting to prep his team to be champs, especially coming close and winding up empty handed a few times. Just like when LH was putting up 50 to 70+ in some games, I dont believe it was Vances intention to humiliate the other team, rather to prepare his team to win.

You can see the interview with Coach Herring of Refugio @ link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=uOhq0MSDoMQ&NR=1

Coach Herring in Refugio even agreed to have a running clock in the second half in a bunch of his games.

His intensity and high expectations are getting results, I dont believe its about the monster score, Someone recently disagreed with me about this coach and I asked what more can the man do? there was no answer for it..... What say you?

The reason I ask is that my 6th grade youth team recently played Llano and my 3 starting running backs got 1 play each in the first quarter.
1st play 1st possesion - Full Back - touchdown
1st play 2nd possession - Half Back - touchdown
1st play 3rd possession - Tail Back - touchdown...

This was after 3 and outs by the yellow jackets.....I pulled my first string back field in the 1st quarter.....now we are in the 3rd week of the season (we had a bye last week) and my first string back field have had 1 play each.... There are 2 other very good teams in our league that are running it up. I am now in a situation to where I must leave my starters in through the 3rd quarter to prepare my boys to win against these teams in regular season and again in the play offs and eventual championship.

Im playing Lampasas (who is struggling) this weekend and its honestly not about the score, I have to give my starters 3 quarters and my back ups 1, not the other way around... I have no desire to blow away the other team, but my first responsibility is to the kids I am coaching and preparing them to win down the road.

What say you?

I’m from South Texas and these issues have been ongoing as far back as I can remember. Refugio, Cuero, Calallen, Alice, Historically gave Friday night (bad) beat downs. Hey, if Refugio’s bench can out play the opposition’s starters, they got the problem not the Bobcats. Let the boys play.

[LH Panther Mom]

(the best athletes in LH by far)
Woah, Nelly! That is a really bold statement! :doh:

Sorry, I'm probably biased & don't mean to call you out on that, but geez...

[panfan]

Woah, Nelly! That is a really bold statement! :doh:

Sorry, I'm probably biased & don't mean to call you out on that, but geez...

Yep - young studs = next year's duds. Not saying this to take anything away from these young athletes, but see the key word here - Young. Unitl they make their way to the HS ranks, play at that level, and someone is keeping numbers on them, then its all just opinion. Hell, when I coached the current sophs and Juniors in 6th grade, I thought man these kids are pretty darn good. Some I thought would go on to do some great stuff in football aren't even playing anymore, others peaked in 7th grade, while some sleepers who were good but not over the top are now just lights out. Agree with Mom - there have been lots of really talented kids come through the system, and the true measuring stick will be once they are playing at the highest HS level, then we'll see - you may just be dead on, then again...... For now, the bar is set extremely high by those boys (at least for football) that won back to backs. Do we have a team this year or in the next several years that can do that? Maybe, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Inmateboss]

I so totally agree with this!!! I have said it for years that football is the only sport where it's "wrong" to keep scoring!! Basketball does it, baseball does it, but in football your making the other team look bad, the coach, and its just wrong, BS!!!! If my sons team is getting racked up it would make me furious if the out her coach told his team "don't score"!! That would be degrading to the utmost degree!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Matthew328]

Its not wrong to keep scoring...but its wrong to keep your foot on the gas...in football you shouldn't be throwing in the 2nd half when you are up big, in baseball you dont steal bases when up big, in basketball you dont press when up big

[defense51]

I so totally agree with this!!! I have said it for years that football is the only sport where it's "wrong" to keep scoring!! Basketball does it, baseball does it, but in football your making the other team look bad, the coach, and its just wrong, BS!!!! If my sons team is getting racked up it would make me furious if the out her coach told his team "don't score"!! That would be degrading to the utmost degree!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5 I have no problem with beating a team solidly, I've been on the losing end of that very thing a few times. You never stop playing or trying to execute your plays and assignments. However at a peewee level, I believe you give all your kids a chance to participate in the game and get some playing time. I don't believe in a participation trophy for everyone, just a little playing time. It doesnt necessarily have to be equal. If at that point you beat a team badly, so be it.

[bp80884]

Youth league football is about everything EXCEPT winning. Make sure everyone gets to play, and keep the playing time as equal as possible, and make sure EVERY kid is having fun and learning fundamentals. If the score gets out of hand, go with a running clock.
I agree, nothing wrong with what Jason Herring did, but his JOB is to win football games and championship, and he's coaching young men, not boys. Big difference.

In my opinion, a football coach's main job is not to win football games. It is to build these boys into men that are great fathers, brothers, husbands & eventually grandfathers. If your coach's job is to win, I am glad my son does not play for that coach.

I am not saying I don't like him, but it is a bit concerning that he obviously cares and build his own team but at the cost of the self esteem of the teams that they play. Again, this is my opinion, I won't get into a peeing match with anyone that does not agree.