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Sville
07-23-2012, 02:31 PM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

Gsquared
07-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Got my popcorn ready for this one!

Bullaholic
07-23-2012, 02:45 PM
Wouldn't have expected any less from a diehard Yellowjacket, SVille. We're gonna need a choke chain for Rocket when he reads this post. :D

All I can offer is---Sville, if you think 3A "touch" football is rough--- wait til' we put the pads on...:D

I will be watching the Yellowjackets every week with great interest. They are more than worthy 3A competitors...and they will run across some good 3A teams which are equal to the task. "Lay on, McDuff.And damn'd be him that first cries, 'Hold, enough!"

MGAR
07-23-2012, 02:59 PM
Hey Cocky Sville Fan,

Good luck with that.

Old Dog
07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Humble people are sooooooooo nice to be around !!!!!!

Sville
07-23-2012, 03:26 PM
Hey Cocky Sville Fan,

Good luck with that.

I had you in mind with the OP mgar. Luck is where skill and opportunity come together at the same time. We dang sure got the skill and the opportunity is coming.

You'll see!

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That [coaches] shall but smile when they behold
Their [players] quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And [the Jacket] spirit, ranging for [respect],
With [Joe] by his side come hot from [Erath County],
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That [3A will be]
With carrion [teams], groaning for burial.

Cam
07-23-2012, 03:37 PM
I had you in mind with the OP mgar. Luck is where skill and opportunity come together at the same time. We dang sure got the skill and the opportunity is coming.

You'll see!

Blood and destruction shall be so in use
And dreadful objects so familiar
That [coaches] shall but smile when they behold
Their [players] quarter'd with the hands of war;
All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
And [the Jacket] spirit, ranging for [respect],
With [Joe] by his side come hot from [Erath County],
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
That [3A will be]
With carrion [teams], groaning for burial.

you coulda shortened it with a limerick ya know.......

Sville
07-23-2012, 03:42 PM
you coulda shortened it with a limerick ya know.......

Sville fans are bold with balls of brass
The other 3A fans think we are cocky with no class
They will all soon see
That the Jackets and Honeybees
Are gonna kick your @$$

Hows that?

wimbo_pro
07-23-2012, 03:57 PM
After that opening salvo...I prefer dumba$$ Rocket style!

jason
07-23-2012, 03:59 PM
stephenville is loaded this year.
break out the 'win 5' jerseys.

Sville
07-23-2012, 04:07 PM
stephenville is loaded this year.
break out the 'win 5' jerseys.

Don't get that pot stirred up Jason. ;-)

CTS
07-23-2012, 06:38 PM
You guys are awesome! Lol. I just wanna beat Galveston Ball and move on from there. :)

Tejastrue
07-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Don't get that pot stirred up Jason. ;-)

I think he's been smokin some.:smoker::D

cowboyandchrist
07-23-2012, 07:14 PM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!
I love it, but I will tell you the same thing I told Rocket. There is a storm brewing from the East and when it hits the Ville will be hard hit. The Ville will beat evetybody by fifty just like Brownwood did and then the beast from the East will come like a major storm. Good luck Mr. Ville, just remember the Dawgs are coming.

toddg
07-23-2012, 07:24 PM
oh no! its Jackets88 and Bulldawgs88 in the same thread:1omg!:!!! i guess we have been warned!

Ville
07-23-2012, 07:47 PM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

:iagree::evilgrin:

Cant wait for this season. Good luck fellas.

Ville
07-23-2012, 08:43 PM
I think he's been smokin some.:smoker::D

Lets have a party.

Manso/V8
07-23-2012, 10:48 PM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

You are the Stuart Smalley of smack.

Ville-D
07-23-2012, 11:45 PM
I love it, but I will tell you the same thing I told Rocket. There is a storm brewing from the East and when it hits the Ville will be hard hit. The Ville will beat evetybody by fifty just like Brownwood did and then the beast from the East will come like a major storm. Good luck Mr. Ville, just remember the Dawgs are coming.

This whole "team from the East" thing is funny. There are about 30 (depending on where you draw the line) "teams from the East." So you EaTxSpd backers need to pick a horse, saddle up and ride. That would be like me saying that neither SC in 3a will come from the East, and that is what I'm doing... but I'm not going to talk in these directional generalities for D1.


D1 SC will be Stephenville.
D2 SC will be someone from NotEast Texas.

I posted my score predictions early after realignment and I believe they are still relevant with a couple of minor changes.

One of my first posts here: http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?117332-Stephenville-2012-W-L-Predictions

Just to recap:

I'm not too sure what kind of team the Mexican cartel will allow to come play us, but hopefully we are not over matched.

I think the Stephenville Defense will surprise some people this year - starting with aleda. I say that game will be about like the Burnwood game last year. Maybe not 66 points, but we will shut them out.

Our first 3A challenge will be La Vega and I am glad that they are ranked so high on all the preseason polls. Ville by 28

regaleagle
07-24-2012, 12:24 AM
Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble....when your team is loaded. Oh Lord, I didn't expect it....our team imploded. We came ready to rumble, but now it's too late to be humble. :weeping:

Ville-D
07-24-2012, 12:32 AM
Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble....when your team is loaded. Oh Lord, I didn't expect it....our team imploded. We came ready to rumble, but now it's too late to be humble. :weeping:


Our team and coaches are very humble. Some of the fans... not so much. I just don't see it. Maybe I'll have to eat some of that crow D51 was offering up - but I don't think so.

regaleagle
07-24-2012, 12:43 AM
Oh Lord, teach us to be humble....if we're playing basketball early.:evilgrin:

defense51
07-24-2012, 07:05 AM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo! That's it? I thought you were going cocky jacket fan... :vrycnfsd:

BwdLion73
07-24-2012, 09:31 AM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

:speech:

Matthew328
07-24-2012, 09:48 AM
We're gonna see real quick how good Stephenville is gonna be, Aledo will be no joke still, LaVega is a top 10 3A team, Beaumont Ozen went 3 deep in 4A and Amarillo went 2 deep in 5A....

ctown81
07-24-2012, 10:07 AM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

I LOVE IT!!! I have NO problem with fans trash talking. It has nothing to do with the field and affects nothing. So, if that's what you feel speak your mind and eat your crow like a man if you lose. Like I said in the past, it's a little easier for you to brag because of the region you're in so you're pretty much guaranteed to make the final four. To be honest, i'm more nervous about playing Navasota than the Ville. That's the worst match up for Carthage in my opinion.

Sville
07-24-2012, 10:12 AM
You are the Stuart Smalley of smack.

Ooooh that come back got me there. Bring it dont sing it nancy boy. But when I chew your arse up and send you floating down the bosque towards Waco dont say I didn't warn ya.

BTW, just so we are clear, tell me what pretender you cheer for so I know to gloat over our victory if they are privileged enough to play the Jackets.

Sville
07-24-2012, 10:14 AM
That's it? I thought you were going cocky jacket fan... :vrycnfsd:

Yall just worry about keeping us under 70 this go go around lil tonto boy.

Sville
07-24-2012, 10:15 AM
Argyle isnt that some type of yuppie sock? How could anyone from a town named Argyle know how to play football?

Sville
07-24-2012, 10:16 AM
And to all you Brownwood fans that want to join in on some of this, this will be my response all season

66-0

jason
07-24-2012, 10:21 AM
And to all you Brownwood fans that want to join in on some of this, this will be my response all season

66-0
geez that was an ass whippin

LIONS#1
07-24-2012, 11:18 AM
ahhh yes the 66-0 score early and score often as you can to avenge the embarrassment from falling the year before 49-16 to a lowly 3a team...LMAO Nothing but CLASS there...LOL:1popcorn:

Sville
07-24-2012, 11:25 AM
ahhh yes the 66-0 score early and score often as you can to avenge the embarrassment from falling the year before 49-16 to a lowly 3a team...LMAO Nothing but CLASS there...LOL:1popcorn:

Don't get all self righteous on me with that crap. You know as well as I do that if the roles were reversed every Bwood fan on here would remind us of that score as often as possible. So with that in mind,


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii18/ahycb/66-0.jpg

Ville-D
07-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Don't get all self righteous on me with that crap. You know as well as I do that if the roles were reversed every Bwood fan on here would remind us of that score as often as possible. So with that in mind,


http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii18/ahycb/66-0.jpg



Here are some highlights in case you forgot...

http://goo.gl/D2B3Z

orange machine
07-24-2012, 01:07 PM
:1popcorn:

Ville-D
07-24-2012, 02:34 PM
Here is one for all the Wylie Bulldog fans too.

Enjoy:

http://goo.gl/zQTLN

defense51
07-24-2012, 05:50 PM
Yall just worry about keeping us under 70 this go go around lil tonto boy.

I agree, I think keeping that overrated offense under 70 yards should be about right...

Sville
07-24-2012, 07:08 PM
I agree, I think keeping that overrated offense under 70 yards should be about right...

ha yall can't even spell defense. We'll have a scoring play of at least 70 yds against the Little Indians. It will be raining touchdowns on dat NDN D with a can of whoop @$$ served to the A town faithful.

toddg
07-24-2012, 10:06 PM
ha yall can't even spell defense. We'll have a scoring play of at least 70 yds against the Little Indians. It will be raining touchdowns on dat NDN D with a can of whoop @$$ served to the A town faithful.

as long as it doesnt rain..

cowboyandchrist
07-24-2012, 10:19 PM
This whole "team from the East" thing is funny. There are about 30 (depending on where you draw the line) "teams from the East." So you EaTxSpd backers need to pick a horse, saddle up and ride. That would be like me saying that neither SC in 3a will come from the East, and that is what I'm doing... but I'm not going to talk in these directional generalities for D1.


D1 SC will be Stephenville.
D2 SC will be someone from NotEast Texas.

I posted my score predictions early after realignment and I believe they are still relevant with a couple of minor changes.

One of my first posts here: http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?117332-Stephenville-2012-W-L-Predictions

Just to recap:

I'm not too sure what kind of team the Mexican cartel will allow to come play us, but hopefully we are not over matched.

I think the Stephenville Defense will surprise some people this year - starting with aleda. I say that game will be about like the Burnwood game last year. Maybe not 66 points, but we will shut them out.

Our first 3A challenge will be La Vega and I am glad that they are ranked so high on all the preseason polls. Ville by 28
You are just like the Rocket was in 2010. I can't wait to see the Ville try and hang with the Dawgs. The size and speed from the East will make a believer out of you real quick. Just remember the 3A championship stills runs through the East. Here is just a little reminder for you Mr. Ville 03, 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 09, 010, 010, 011

defense51
07-24-2012, 10:56 PM
as long as it doesnt rain..

:doh:

toddg
07-24-2012, 11:10 PM
:doh:

the rain was their excuse for the pathetic offensive display vs. Aledo last december

defense51
07-24-2012, 11:30 PM
I remember, funny how it didn't affect Aledo.

BEAST
07-25-2012, 08:19 AM
You are just like the Rocket was in 2010. I can't wait to see the Ville try and hang with the Dawgs. The size and speed from the East will make a believer out of you real quick. Just remember the 3A championship stills runs through the East. Here is just a little reminder for you Mr. Ville 03, 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 09, 010, 010, 011

However, out east brains arent a big deal, 010, 011?? How about just 10 and 11?




BEAST

Sville
07-25-2012, 08:46 AM
the rain was their excuse for the pathetic offensive display vs. Aledo last december

Hey no cross posting from other message boards. ;)

Sville
07-25-2012, 08:57 AM
You are just like the Rocket was in 2010. I can't wait to see the Ville try and hang with the Dawgs. The size and speed from the East will make a believer out of you real quick. Just remember the 3A championship stills runs through the East. Here is just a little reminder for you Mr. Ville 03, 04, 05, 06, 08, 09, 09, 010, 010, 011

He ain't rocket and we ain't Bwood. The east Texas teams are gonna be the ones that say damn there is a new billy bad @$$ on the block and their name is Stephenville. If you think a handful teams west of Waskom are the only ones we have played with speed you are in for a rude awakening son. Besides we got plenty of size and speed of our own. Shoot we might not even see an east Texas team on our way to #5. Argyle will prolly be in the semis and we could very well have to play La Vega twice or Navasota in the finals.

toddg
07-25-2012, 09:05 AM
Hey no cross posting from other message boards. ;)

...and the 70 yd Frysinger strike that rained down too...:evilgrin:...sorry man, im just used to the reasonable, but confident Sville :wave:

Sville
07-25-2012, 10:01 AM
Alright I will break from the 3ADL Sville for a sec. Let's be reasonable, Aledo had one of the greatest TX HS RB of all-time to help them get a lead in a heavy down pour before he got ejected. We had to be able to throw the football to beat them. That is how we won the first game. The conditions were about as bad as they could be for throwing the football. I am just stating the obvious, not trying to make excuses. It was also obvious that Aledo was the better team and would have won even if the weather would have been better. The game would of just been more interesting. The Aledo-Sville series is 7-6 in Aledo's favor but what chaps my arse more than anything is the Bearcats have won every single elimination game between the two.

On a side note the Matt Diggs comments had this Aledo team fired up like I had never seen before.

Sville
07-25-2012, 10:07 AM
So now that we have last year's Aledo debacle out of the way. Let's talk about what we are going to do in 2012 and that includes extending our 4-0 mark against Alvarado to 5-0 with another arse whoppin, which has been a common theme in the 4 times we played the lil indians from 2004-2007.

Ville-D
07-25-2012, 10:17 AM
Alright I will break from the 3ADL Sville for a sec. Let's be reasonable, Aledo had one of the greatest TX HS RB of all-time to help them get a lead in a heavy down pour before he got ejected. We had to be able to throw the football to beat them. That is how we won the first game. The conditions were about as bad as they could be for throwing the football. I am just stating the obvious, not trying to make excuses. It was also obvious that Aledo was the better team and would have won even if the weather would have been better. The game would of just been more interesting. The Aledo-Sville series is 7-6 in Aledo's favor but what chaps my arse more than anything is the Bearcats have won every single elimination game between the two.

On a side note the Matt Diggs comments had this Aledo team fired up like I had never seen before.

It's 8-7 Stephenville if you go back to the '82 & '83 seasons... But 7-6 aleda if you go from '02 to '011 (that '011 is so the least Texas folks understand what I mean)

toddg
07-25-2012, 10:19 AM
Alright I will break from the 3ADL Sville for a sec. Let's be reasonable, Aledo had one of the greatest TX HS RB of all-time to help them get a lead in a heavy down pour before he got ejected. We had to be able to throw the football to beat them. That is how we won the first game. The conditions were about as bad as they could be for throwing the football. I am just stating the obvious, not trying to make excuses. It was also obvious that Aledo was the better team and would have won even if the weather would have been better. The game would of just been more interesting. The Aledo-Sville series is 7-6 in Aledo's favor but what chaps my arse more than anything is the Bearcats have won every single elimination game between the two.

On a side note the Matt Diggs comments had this Aledo team fired up like I had never seen before.

they are still fired up over that...

my son's freshman team and my middle son's 7th grd teams are going to wreck those Jr.Jacket teams this year just to get ya'll used to losing to the Indians for the big show that friday night:devil:...

toddg
07-25-2012, 10:30 AM
So now that we have last year's Aledo debacle out of the way. Let's talk about what we are going to do in 2012 and that includes extending our 4-0 mark against Alvarado to 5-0 with another arse whoppin, which has been a common theme in the 4 times we played the lil indians from 2004-2007.

its obvious that we didnt belong in 4a for those few years, but we competed alright..and those Chad Morris teams were pretty darn good...but this is 2012 and you all had better get ready for the "Purple Reign" :evilgrin:

Ville-D
07-25-2012, 10:33 AM
get ready for the "Purple Reign" :evilgrin:

I'm not really into Prince, but if that floats y'alls boats then so be it. Who am I to judge.

toddg
07-25-2012, 10:35 AM
It's 8-7 Stephenville if you go back to the '82 & '83 seasons... But 7-6 aleda if you go from '02 to '011 (that '011 is so the least Texas folks understand what I mean)

who didnt beat Aledo and Stephenville in 82' and 83'? LOL! heck that goes way back to the days when Brownwood was still relevent:devil:!

toddg
07-25-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm not really into Prince, but if that floats y'alls boats then so be it. Who am I to judge.

ok..had to laugh a little on that one...:spitlol:!....but THE ARTIST formaly known as Prince has nothin to do with this Purple Reign:evilgrin:

Sville
07-25-2012, 11:14 AM
Speaking of purple reign and the Jacket Train. They are both ranked in the top 10 in FNF and Padilla Poll. I also saw that 16-3A didn't have 2 in the top 10. The only other district with 2 top 10 teams was 24-3A with LM and WC.

Tejastrue
07-25-2012, 12:04 PM
Saw this on Maxpreps. I know it was a loss but congrats on being chosen. One question, you guys actually had "win 5" on the front of your jerseys and have the jerseys been retired or are you still using them? :D

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/article.aspx?articleid=fba62cb6-6a8b-4f0b-add2-d053e342d17e&page=5

Matthew328
07-25-2012, 12:12 PM
Win 5 is a sore subject in Stephenville....

To their credit East TX speed won't be anything Stephenville hasn't dealt with before...there are 4A schools in DFW and Central Texas with just as much if not more speed than the East Texas powers

Tejastrue
07-25-2012, 12:20 PM
I was not familiar with it and have never seen such a thing. I guess I don't get out much. Lol. It seemed rather brash to me. With your knowledge, is this that uncommon?

cougartino
07-25-2012, 12:23 PM
You guys are getting me fired up for the season!

Matthew328
07-25-2012, 01:08 PM
its uncommon, they wore them as playoff only jerseys for a couple of years about 5 years ago

Sville
07-25-2012, 04:07 PM
The win 5 jerseys were bought by a local business man and Coach Morris used them as playoff jerseys for a few years. They were then relegated as practice jerseys.

Ville-D
07-25-2012, 04:10 PM
I was not familiar with it and have never seen such a thing. I guess I don't get out much. Lol. It seemed rather brash to me. With your knowledge, is this that uncommon?




It was from a previous coach... I don't see the current staff doing anything like that.

hollywood
07-25-2012, 04:37 PM
Win 5 is a sore subject in Stephenville....

To their credit East TX speed won't be anything Stephenville hasn't dealt with before...there are 4A schools in DFW and Central Texas with just as much if not more speed than the East Texas powers

Matt328 is correct. Win 5 jersey's were NOT a good idea. Ask how WF Rider responded?

cowboyandchrist always brings up the "Beast from the East" comment. "East Texas" speed isn't any faster than the Metroplex and Central Texas (Waco area) speed, I can assure you that. Stephenville played the fastest schedule in their schools history the last 2 seasons.

Yellow Jackets 2011 (11-3,4-1)
Week Date Opponent Time/Results

0 8/26-Friday vs. Aledo W 48-47 -------------------------------- good speed
1 9/2-Friday @ Abilene Wylie W 42-14 --------------------------- avg speed
2 9/9-Friday vs. Brownwood ## W 66-0 ------------------------- avg speed
3 9/16-Friday @ Lewisville Hebron L 6-10 ------------------------- great speed*
4 9/23-Friday @ Mesquite Horn W 28-20 ------------------------- great speed*
5 9/30 Bye Week -
6 10/7-Friday vs. San Angelo Lakeview * # W 63-0 --------------- slow
7 10/14-Friday @ Waco University * W 38-36 --------------------- great speed*
8 10/21-Friday vs. Killeen * W 37-33 ----------------------------- great speed*
9 10/28-Friday vs. Waco Midway * ### L 20-51 ------------------ great speed*
10 11/5-Friday @ Waco High * W 56-21 -------------------------- great speed*
11 11/11-Friday Bi-district vs. Everman @ Weatherford** W 49-23 - great speed*

* More overall speed than any East Texas 3A team

Speed is nothing new to Stephenville. Next

Ville-D
07-25-2012, 05:00 PM
Hollywood, you can add Lake Dallas to that speed list.

cowboyandchrist
07-25-2012, 10:11 PM
Matt328 is correct. Win 5 jersey's were NOT a good idea. Ask how WF Rider responded?

cowboyandchrist always brings up the "Beast from the East" comment. "East Texas" speed isn't any faster than the Metroplex and Central Texas (Waco area) speed, I can assure you that. Stephenville played the fastest schedule in their schools history the last 2 seasons.

Yellow Jackets 2011 (11-3,4-1)
Week Date Opponent Time/Results

0 8/26-Friday vs. Aledo W 48-47 -------------------------------- good speed
1 9/2-Friday @ Abilene Wylie W 42-14 --------------------------- avg speed
2 9/9-Friday vs. Brownwood ## W 66-0 ------------------------- avg speed
3 9/16-Friday @ Lewisville Hebron L 6-10 ------------------------- great speed*
4 9/23-Friday @ Mesquite Horn W 28-20 ------------------------- great speed*
5 9/30 Bye Week -
6 10/7-Friday vs. San Angelo Lakeview * # W 63-0 --------------- slow
7 10/14-Friday @ Waco University * W 38-36 --------------------- great speed*
8 10/21-Friday vs. Killeen * W 37-33 ----------------------------- great speed*
9 10/28-Friday vs. Waco Midway * ### L 20-51 ------------------ great speed*
10 11/5-Friday @ Waco High * W 56-21 -------------------------- great speed*
11 11/11-Friday Bi-district vs. Everman @ Weatherford** W 49-23 - great speed*

* More overall speed than any East Texas 3A team

Speed is nothing new to Stephenville. Next
Am I missing something, none of the above look they they were from East Texas. Try again. You remind me of the Rocket, after an East Texas team gets through with the Ville, we will never hear from you again, just like the Rocket.

BEAST
07-25-2012, 10:39 PM
East Texas football is good. But not unbeatable. You guys keeps blowing your horns. Get ready.




BEAST

Ville-D
07-25-2012, 11:02 PM
Is it just me or do these Least Texas fans have a thing for Rocket? They see him in every post. Rocket envy?

cowboyandchrist
07-26-2012, 07:05 AM
East Texas football is good. But not unbeatable. You guys keeps blowing your horns. Get ready.




BEAST
Never said East Texas was unbeatable, but anybody thinks that they will walk through 3A with no battles has been reading to many comic books. I am saying I believe Carthage can beat the Ville if they both make it that far. Also there are five or six more teams in 3A that can beat the Ville. Just off the top of my head I would say Carthage, Navasota, Celina, Wimberley, LaMarque, Gilmer, and Chapell Hill just to name a few. The Ville will beat teams by 50 and 60 points, which will not help them in the playoffs. The teams from the East will be tested every week. I expect to see my Carthage Bull Dawgs and the Ville play for the championship, who will win I don't know. It should be the game of the decade.

hollywood
07-26-2012, 09:14 AM
Am I missing something, none of the above look they they were from East Texas. Try again. You remind me of the Rocket, after an East Texas team gets through with the Ville, we will never hear from you again, just like the Rocket.

Yes, you are missing something. The teams listed are 4A central, and north central Texas teams with 7 of them close to 5A numbers. Point being, 8 of the 11 listed could have beaten Carthage or any other 3A "Beast from the East" team like a red headed step child.

Here's a look at Waco High.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7716.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7711.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7700.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7664.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7657.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7622.jpg

vtskneb
07-26-2012, 09:19 AM
The win 5 jerseys were bought by a local business man and Coach Morris used them as playoff jerseys for a few years. They were then relegated as practice jerseys.

Test.

hollywood
07-26-2012, 09:24 AM
Test.

Welcome!

Ville-D
07-26-2012, 10:32 AM
Test.


Welcome vtskneb, I was hoping you would join up eventually.

Matthew328
07-26-2012, 12:36 PM
Am I missing something, none of the above look they they were from East Texas. Try again. You remind me of the Rocket, after an East Texas team gets through with the Ville, we will never hear from you again, just like the Rocket.

You are completely missing the point..if you dont think a team like Hebron, Mesquite Horn, Waco Midway, Waco and Killeen have just as much size and speed as any East Texas team in 3A, then your view of high school football outside of the Greater Panola County area is sorely lacking.

Waco University and Everman are also just as fast if not faster than anyone in East Texas as well...so the East Texas speed won't shock Stephenville like many think...in fact it'll be nothing new...in fact compared to Mesquite Horn I'd say a team like Carthage/Henderson would be considered slow..

Stephenville is a little different animal than Brownwood of a couple of years ago, simply because their non-district schedule is so loaded...they'll be battle tested heading into the playoffs...I'm not sure Brownwood was really tested in 2010 outside of Stephenville and maybe Snyder before they ran into Carthage

Bullaholic
07-26-2012, 12:44 PM
Hurry up season!

Ville-D
07-26-2012, 01:08 PM
Hurry up season!

I agree!

vtskneb
07-26-2012, 04:11 PM
You are completely missing the point..if you dont think a team like Hebron, Mesquite Horn, Waco Midway, Waco and Killeen have just as much size and speed as any East Texas team in 3A, then your view of high school football outside of the Greater Panola County area is sorely lacking.

Waco University and Everman are also just as fast if not faster than anyone in East Texas as well...so the East Texas speed won't shock Stephenville like many think...in fact it'll be nothing new...in fact compared to Mesquite Horn I'd say a team like Carthage/Henderson would be considered slow..

Stephenville is a little different animal than Brownwood of a couple of years ago, simply because their non-district schedule is so loaded...they'll be battle tested heading into the playoffs...I'm not sure Brownwood was really tested in 2010 outside of Stephenville and maybe Snyder before they ran into Carthage

I get the impression that the East Texas folks are having to project Brownwood v. 2010 onto Stephenville for two reasons. 1) Until Sville started this thread (which is a thread I LOVE) it had been a much more workman like approach/view of the Stephenville posters and I do think that is a great description of Stephenville's team and staff to the year. I am not saying all Brownwood posters were calling for 3A to bow down but the 2008 season could not have set them up for much more of a failure than it was. 2) They assume because Brownwood beat Stephenville like they did in 2010, (a 4A quarter-finalist) Stephenville probably hasn't improved that much from that team. There were some major internal issues that had not been resolved by that team starting in 2 a days and were finally cleaned out later the next week. By projecting the Lions on the Jackets 2012 team it fits into the same narrative of East Texas winning, and we all love it when the story is in our favor.

With that said, Burnet showed Stephenville you better show up to play every week. I hope the message was received.

cowboyandchrist
07-26-2012, 09:57 PM
Yes, you are missing something. The teams listed are 4A central, and north central Texas teams with 7 of them close to 5A numbers. Point being, 8 of the 11 listed could have beaten Carthage or any other 3A "Beast from the East" team like a red headed step child.

Here's a look at Waco High.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7716.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7711.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7700.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7664.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7657.jpghttp://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Sports/DSC_7622.jpg

I will leave you with one final coment. One little old 3a team from East Texas (2005) put four players in the NFL this year, 5 players if you add 2004 from that same high school. How many made it from any team you just showed us. Just saying.

Ville-D
07-26-2012, 11:03 PM
I will leave you with one final coment. One little old 3a team from East Texas (2005) put four players in the NFL this year, 5 players if you add 2004 from that same high school. How many made it from any team you just showed us. Just saying.

You are right with that "coment", none of those kids who were mentioned from the games that Stephenville played this past season made the NFL draft this year. Heck, probably over half of them will still be playing HS football this fall. What a bunch of losers. I guess we all need to pack up and move to the Least.

defense51
07-27-2012, 07:15 AM
I don't put alot of stock in the East Texas speed subject, after seeing Henderson the last two years and Chapel Hill last year it wasn't speed that beat us in either loss. Our losses consisted of miscues on our part and a size difference on the OL/DL against CH, and an inability to figure out the offensive scheme Henderson threw at us in the second half in 2010.

garciap77
07-27-2012, 10:09 PM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/no_comment.gif

Sville
07-27-2012, 11:23 PM
Cocky Sville Fan is going on hiatus for several days. While I have had fun playing the role nothing like 3 straight days of training to get you ready for a possible foster child adoption to make life real again. But don't worry I am sure some DA will say something that will set me off in the future.

cowboyandchrist
07-28-2012, 06:56 AM
You are right with that "coment", none of those kids who were mentioned from the games that Stephenville played this past season made the NFL draft this year. Heck, probably over half of them will still be playing HS football this fall. What a bunch of losers. I guess we all need to pack up and move to the Least.
Sorry if you took the coment wrong, I thought you said all those teams could beat East Texas teams like a red headed step child. I was giving you an example of East Texas talent. The pictures of the Waco team were some big young men, but not real sure they could beat the top teams from the East. Here is something for you to think about 6' 4" 295 lbs runs 4.7 DT and ranked in the top 10 in the nation OR 6' 2" 225 lbs runs 4.4 and comitted to an SEC school. There are more on this team that you will see and here about as the season goes on. So yes I believe this team can beat the teams you referred to. I firmly believe they will be playing the Ville for the state championship, who will win I don't know, but should be the game of the year.

I will leave you with one final thought for the future. There is a 2A team from East Texas that will move back up to 3A in 2014 and I beleive they will be a contender for the title. You may have heard some of the names from the past. Greer, Bell, Centers, Horton, Smith, hodge, moore, and mcoy. Every one of these kids dads, brothers, and cousins are in the NFL or played in the NFL. I will be shocked if there are less than 12 D1 players on this team by the time they end there senior year. They will be freshmen and sophmores this year. Six of the sophmores may start this year and a couple of the freshmen. When they are seniors and juniors, I look for them to be outstanding and repersent East Texas in the state championship game. East Texas football looks good for the future.

hsbtex
07-28-2012, 02:06 PM
You are completely missing the point..if you dont think a team like Hebron, Mesquite Horn, Waco Midway, Waco and Killeen have just as much size and speed as any East Texas team in 3A, then your view of high school football outside of the Greater Panola County area is sorely lacking.

Waco University and Everman are also just as fast if not faster than anyone in East Texas as well...so the East Texas speed won't shock Stephenville like many think...in fact it'll be nothing new...in fact compared to Mesquite Horn I'd say a team like Carthage/Henderson would be considered slow..

Stephenville is a little different animal than Brownwood of a couple of years ago, simply because their non-district schedule is so loaded...they'll be battle tested heading into the playoffs...I'm not sure Brownwood was really tested in 2010 outside of Stephenville and maybe Snyder before they ran into Carthage

Matthew...all you can do is grin at cowboyandchrist responses! Don't look for logic, just stats of a certain players who made it to the NFL. Even after we pistol whipped, TWICE, the big brother from sllloooowwwww east texas, cowboy was still saying that carthage was better than us. Again...just grin :)

And even with the transfers Carthage got this year, Stephenville will still beat them.

Ville
07-28-2012, 02:36 PM
I just talked to a friend who has lived in East Texas 40 plus years and he said the only way East Texas has more speed is because the **** problem. Said Daingerfield area is run down. A bunch of drug addicts on crack and ****. LOL

cowboyandchrist
07-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Matthew...all you can do is grin at cowboyandchrist responses! Don't look for logic, just stats of a certain players who made it to the NFL. Even after we pistol whipped, TWICE, the big brother from sllloooowwwww east texas, cowboy was still saying that carthage was better than us. Again...just grin :)

And even with the transfers Carthage got this year, Stephenville will still beat them.
You might want to do a little research before you tell a lie. Never did I ever say Carthage could beat THE FIVE TIME 4A CHAMPS.
2008 and 2010 Dawgs would have given them a good game, but beat them never. I thought this was 3A, but again you just can't help your self can you. Please tell us all about the 4a teams on a 3A site. Oh wait, they are now 5A.

vtskneb
07-28-2012, 07:19 PM
I will leave you with one final coment. One little old 3a team from East Texas (2005) put four players in the NFL this year, 5 players if you add 2004 from that same high school. How many made it from any team you just showed us. Just saying.

What does that have to do with this conversation? What did the 2004 team do in the playoffs? Are you talking about Carthage or just about a team in the area you dub East Texas? You are on record as saying what? That the team from 2004 can beat any of the playoff teams from Stephenville's schedule last year or Carthage can beat them? Let's get you on record and we will go from there.

How is this attitude any different from what Stephenville posters are mocked for? It does not get much more zealous than the post above this one. This East Texas thing has me puzzled after researching the state champs from 2004-2005. Are you touting a team that your only affiliation is a geographic area? Carthage did not win state in 2004 or 2005. I would hope Stephenville would never use the coat tails of Aledo to invite themselves into a conversation about the strength of their football team.

cowboyandchrist
07-28-2012, 09:34 PM
What does that have to do with this conversation? What did the 2004 team do in the playoffs? Are you talking about Carthage or just about a team in the area you dub East Texas? You are on record as saying what? That the team from 2004 can beat any of the playoff teams from Stephenville's schedule last year or Carthage can beat them? Let's get you on record and we will go from there.

How is this attitude any different from what Stephenville posters are mocked for? It does not get much more zealous than the post above this one. This East Texas thing has me puzzled after researching the state champs from 2004-2005. Are you touting a team that your only affiliation is a geographic area? Carthage did not win state in 2004 or 2005. I would hope Stephenville would never use the coat tails of Aledo to invite themselves into a conversation about the strength of their football team.

I am from Tatum, the 2005 3A state champs. Grand father on school board for twenty years, went to Tatum grades 1 through 6. Went to Carthage 7 through 12 and played for the Dawgs. I can claim both. Never said the 2004 team could beat anybody. You need to learn how to read.

wimbo_pro
07-28-2012, 09:45 PM
Hey!!! Hello!!!??!!! There are a couple decent teams down thisaway too, ya know. Just wanted to remind the newbies to 3A that we've heard all this before.

toddg
07-28-2012, 09:47 PM
Cocky Sville Fan is going on hiatus for several days. While I have had fun playing the role nothing like 3 straight days of training to get you ready for a possible foster child adoption to make life real again. But don't worry I am sure some DA will say something that will set me off in the future.

good luck!

vtskneb
07-28-2012, 10:03 PM
I am from Tatum, the 2005 3A state champs. Grand father on school board for twenty years, went to Tatum grades 1 through 6. Went to Carthage 7 through 12 and played for the Dawgs. I can claim both. Never said the 2004 team could beat anybody. You need to learn how to read.

Kolb is in the NFL. Am I doing this right?

vtskneb
07-28-2012, 10:04 PM
Hey!!! Hello!!!??!!! There are a couple decent teams down thisaway too, ya know. Just wanted to remind the newbies to 3A that we've heard all this before.

No one from Stephenville is claiming someone from the CenTex won't be there. That is ET talk.

toddg
07-29-2012, 08:31 PM
So now that we have last year's Aledo debacle out of the way. Let's talk about what we are going to do in 2012 and that includes extending our 4-0 mark against Alvarado to 5-0 with another arse whoppin, which has been a common theme in the 4 times we played the lil indians from 2004-2007.

George Armstrong Custer's nickname was "yellow jacket"

Rocket
07-30-2012, 10:41 AM
Our team and coaches are very humble. Some of the fans... not so much. I just don't see it. Maybe I'll have to eat some of that crow D51 was offering up - but I don't think so.

Your head coach is a dumb@ss.

And so is Cody.

Ville-D
07-30-2012, 04:54 PM
Your head coach is a dumb@ss.


So far I've heard you bash Gillespie and Sandifer... Is there a non-brownwood HC out there that you approve of? (not sure if that is bashing or not, it kind-of sounds like a 6th grader talking about some grownups)

Matthew328
07-30-2012, 05:07 PM
Hey!!! Hello!!!??!!! There are a couple decent teams down thisaway too, ya know. Just wanted to remind the newbies to 3A that we've heard all this before.

There's been some newbies to 3A who have delivered

toddg
07-31-2012, 10:31 AM
There's been some newbies to 3A who have delivered

funny how everybody forgets the Everman back-to-backs..bet Shipley, or the Sinton faithfull doesnt.

wimbo_pro
08-01-2012, 09:45 PM
There's been some newbies to 3A who have delivered

I know, I know...just let me strut for a minute, will ya? LOL

Old LB
08-02-2012, 08:10 PM
As I look through this thread there seems to be some discussion on Stephenville players in the NFL. I have relocated to Cotulla in the last couple weeks and I had a salesman in my office this week who is originally from Stephenville and now lives in Wimberly. He was talking about all the QBs from Stephenville and their successes, I thought it kinda funny how he had connections with all the 3A towns so I pulled this thread up on the computer. He left pretty excited about getting home and reading the whole thread.

LH Panther Mom
08-02-2012, 08:59 PM
Your head coach is a dumb@ss.

And so is Cody.
Dude..........:tisk: :tisk:

Ville-D
08-18-2012, 11:49 PM
Cocky Sville Fan is going on hiatus for several days. While I have had fun playing the role nothing like 3 straight days of training to get you ready for a possible foster child adoption to make life real again. But don't worry I am sure some DA will say something that will set me off in the future.

Hey Cody, Is Cocky Stephenville fan back yet?

garciap77
08-19-2012, 09:22 PM
Hey!!! Hello!!!??!!! There are a couple decent teams down thisaway too, ya know. Just wanted to remind the newbies to 3A that we've heard all this before.:iagree:

garciap77
08-19-2012, 09:25 PM
Your head coach is a dumb@ss.

And so is Cody.
:eek:

Ville-D
09-20-2012, 09:23 AM
I have been pondering for a few months now on how I was going to approach the 2012 season. Should I be Mr. Nice Guy, humble Sville fan, Cocky Sville fan, or go totally dumb@$$ Rocket style. Well I have decided with the plethora of anti-sville responses and reflecting back on what Coach Briles told the players in his first meeting with the Jackets circa 1988, "The mean and lean days are over men, it is time to get stocky and cocky." I am going Cocky Sville Fan on yall this season. I know some of the posts are b/c they don't think Stephenville fans are giving 3A the respect they deserve and vice versa. Well I am not worried about respect anymore because we are gonna take it from every team we play this season.

Now that touch football is over and 2-a-days are just 2 weeks away, I want to be perfectly clear to the rest of 3A. I fully expect the Jackets to kick yalls arse this year. Not because we were a 4A that is dropping or because we have been to the 4A qtr. finals 3 out of the last 4 years, but because we will be one of the most talented and well coached teams in 2012. There are about 2-3, 3A teams with the talent to beat us heads up. One of them will be D2 and the other will be Carthage in the finals. And yes I intentionally left 16-3A teams out this year.

In the famous words of Dizzy Dean, "It ain't braggin if you can back it up."

There's my opening salvo!

We need to hear from Cocky Stephenville Fan this week. I think the AW folks are missing him.

Ville-D
09-21-2012, 11:52 AM
We need to hear from Cocky Stephenville Fan this week. I think the AW folks are missing him.

Nothing?