Paterno

[bolshavik]

So, should all things Paterno be erased from the PSU campus? Your thoughts

[Macarthur]

I think they should, but I suspect they won't.

I think the whole group is a disgrace and when I see his family on the TV defending him, it makes me want to throw something through the TV. People need to go to prison over this, and not just Sandusky.

With regards to Paterno specifically, I hear many folks talk about how shocking it is because he always ran such a model program. Well, everybody needs to tap the breaks and take a look at his skyrocketing crime rate within the program the last decade he was there. He was not the patron saint many want to make him out to be.

[regaleagle]

Not much to think about. Never been a Penn State fan, or a JoPa idolizer. What happened in State College is their Waterloo to deal with from here on out. I'm not going to judge who's culpable, and who isn't. A similar set of circumstances occurred within the Catholic Church in certain dioceses worldwide before being brought to light. Woe to those that were aware, but sat idly by and let it happen.

[gatordaze]

Heard that the decided not to take down his statue, just to turn it 180 degrees so that it is looking the other way.

[ethsfbnut]

Well, he got off easy. He passed.

[BEAST]

Well, he got off easy. He passed.

Thats what makes it easy to dump on him. Hes not here to defend himself and call out if someone is lying. Perfect scapegoat.




BEAST

[bolshavik]

Yeah, maybe change the 1 finger standing up to a big thumbs down on the statue

[Macarthur]

Thats what makes it easy to dump on him. Hes not here to defend himself and call out if someone is lying. Perfect scapegoat.




BEAST

Scapegoat? You realize there will probably be several administrators that will go to prison?! No one is dumping JUST on him. He is not a scapegoat; he was neck deep in it along with the others that will be going to prison.

[Farmersfan]

Thats what makes it easy to dump on him. Hes not here to defend himself and call out if someone is lying. Perfect scapegoat.

BEAST




Nobody with that much success is squeaky clean! Nobody! In fact the greater they are today the better they were in the past at covering up all the negative crap that they built their empire on. Nice guys finish last is a cliche' but it does have a ring of truth to it when dealing with the human nature.

[Macarthur]

There's some rich irony here to because some of you that may be old enough remember that Joe made a habit of calling out guys in the business that he felt like weren't doing things the right way: Jackie Sherrell, Switzer, the Rutgers coach a couple of years ago.

How Ironic that the disgrace he was a part of doesn't even begin to compare to what he was so ready to get on his soap box and speak out about.

[bolshavik]

Paterno was a loser

[BEAST]

Scapegoat? You realize there will probably be several administrators that will go to prison?! No one is dumping JUST on him. He is not a scapegoat; he was neck deep in it along with the others that will be going to prison.

I didnt say he was innocent. I said him being dead makes him an easy scapegoat.




BEAST

[Phil C]

There's some rich irony here to because some of you that may be old enough remember that Joe made a habit of calling out guys in the business that he felt like weren't doing things the right way: Jackie Sherrell, Switzer, the Rutgers coach a couple of years ago.

How Ironic that the disgrace he was a part of doesn't even begin to compare to what he was so ready to get on his soap box and speak out about.

And don't forget when he complained in 1969 about UT winning the NC in football when he could have played UT in the Cotton Bowl but they chose to go to the Orange Bowl where there was fun in the sun and maybe a few more dollars. He let his players decide instead of insisting on the Cotton Bowl. Years later he publicly insulted the late President Nixon to the cheers of PSU students.

[MGAR]

Heard that the decided not to take down his statue, just to turn it 180 degrees so that it is looking the other way.

Ohhhh that's a good one.

[defense51]

It only takes one mistake to erase a lifetime of good deeds, and this was a HUGE mistake on behalf of Joe Paterno and Penn State as a whole. I cannot even fathom how anyone could turn their head and look the other way in this situation!

[Macarthur]

I didnt say he was innocent. I said him being dead makes him an easy scapegoat.




BEAST

Fair enough, but in general, the meaning of scapegoat is that once that person is pinned with the 'sins', the others are clean. There are lots of folks going down on this deal, hence I think the term scapegoat doesn't quite apply in this instance.

[Looking4number8]

Heard that the decided not to take down his statue, just to turn it 180 degrees so that it is looking the other way.


cleaver!;)

[zebrablue2]

It only takes one mistake to erase a lifetime of good deeds, and this was a HUGE mistake on behalf of Joe Paterno and Penn State as a whole. I cannot even fathom how anyone could turn their head and look the other way in this situation!

:iagree:And this was a MAJOR MISTAKE!!!

[OldBison75]

I am going to say something that will probably be taken wrong by the masses, but try to understand what I am saying before you attack:

Every single one of us has seen things, known things, or just suspected things that were going on around us that were wrong on some level. It may have been a criminal activity, moral failure, or ethical atrocity. The reality is there is a human nature to not get involved ourselves-but-we may pass the buck,so to speak- by telling someone else and letting them help shoulder the blame for not stepping forward. In this case, with what we know now, Paterno was WRONG to not have gone to law enforcement himself. I think we may be only scratching the surface of the number of Penn State Officials that may have had a hand in this cover up.

I guess that what I am getting at it simply that even though this tragic failure of the entire system to do the right thing does not tale away what the football program accomplished, but calls so much of the rhetoric we heard for years about the integrity of the man and program into question. Should all things Paterno be removed from the campus at State College? I really believe that in a nutshell, the statues, buildings bearing his name, and other blatant public shrines to him need to be taken down because he has proven to be not worthy of those honors. However, at the same time, I think that he3 deserves a place in the history of the football program because regardless of what happened, his teams were successful and so many of the athletes are productive and law abiding citizens. And, if the program comes back to the top of the heap, it will be because another group of athletes proved that the program was not successful because the coach was great or a "god", it happens because of the quality of the kids in the program and their ability to adapt to a system that gives them a chance for success. In other words, let history be what it is, but, don't ignore that the same man that made the program successful was the same man that was a player in bringing shame to that same program, in the least by not doing the right things and reporting his friend and continuing to be an enabler to the things that were reported to him. He let the animal use his facilities to entertain kids even after he was told what was going on.

[bolshavik]

Paterno sure screwed stuff up

[coach]

Paterno sure screwed stuff up

Ummm you mean Sandusky really screwed stuff up....

[CenTexSports]

First, I am not a Paterno or Penn State fan. However, I think it was Matt Millen that pointed out that the majority of men both great and otherwise are not measured on the negatives in their lives. If they were, JFK, MLK, LBJ and many other "great" men would have less than great legacies (sp). Paterno screwed up and people got hurt but I don't believe he wanted people (kids) to be hurt and I don't think this should be his ultimate legacy.

[ogg]

Ummm you mean Sandusky really screwed stuff up....

No! Paterno did. By not informing the authorities, he elevated this from a sick/disgusting individual's problem to a Penn State problem. Basically a Penn State coverup.

[ogg]

I am going to say something that will probably be taken wrong by the masses, but try to understand what I am saying before you attack:

Every single one of us has seen things, known things, or just suspected things that were going on around us that were wrong on some level. It may have been a criminal activity, moral failure, or ethical atrocity. The reality is there is a human nature to not get involved ourselves-but-we may pass the buck,so to speak- by telling someone else and letting them help shoulder the blame for not stepping forward. In this case, with what we know now, Paterno was WRONG to not have gone to law enforcement himself. I think we may be only scratching the surface of the number of Penn State Officials that may have had a hand in this cover up.

I guess that what I am getting at it simply that even though this tragic failure of the entire system to do the right thing does not tale away what the football program accomplished, but calls so much of the rhetoric we heard for years about the integrity of the man and program into question. Should all things Paterno be removed from the campus at State College? I really believe that in a nutshell, the statues, buildings bearing his name, and other blatant public shrines to him need to be taken down because he has proven to be not worthy of those honors. However, at the same time, I think that he3 deserves a place in the history of the football program because regardless of what happened, his teams were successful and so many of the athletes are productive and law abiding citizens. And, if the program comes back to the top of the heap, it will be because another group of athletes proved that the program was not successful because the coach was great or a "god", it happens because of the quality of the kids in the program and their ability to adapt to a system that gives them a chance for success. In other words, let history be what it is, but, don't ignore that the same man that made the program successful was the same man that was a player in bringing shame to that same program, in the least by not doing the right things and reporting his friend and continuing to be an enabler to the things that were reported to him. He let the animal use his facilities to entertain kids even after he was told what was going on.

True.
But we have to wonder what else Paterno and staff covered up. Also, we have to look at issues such as these going forward. Schools and institutions should take a hard look at how they "police" problems similar to this.

[bobcat1]

It only takes one mistake to erase a lifetime of good deeds, and this was a HUGE mistake on behalf of Joe Paterno and Penn State as a whole. I cannot even fathom how anyone could turn their head and look the other way in this situation!It was no mistake. They did this fully aware of what they were doing. It was calculated and decided, no mistake.

[Macarthur]

First, I am not a Paterno or Penn State fan. However, I think it was Matt Millen that pointed out that the majority of men both great and otherwise are not measured on the negatives in their lives. If they were, JFK, MLK, LBJ and many other "great" men would have less than great legacies (sp). Paterno screwed up and people got hurt but I don't believe he wanted people (kids) to be hurt and I don't think this should be his ultimate legacy.

I don't agree w this. There's a big diff in JfK banging some chick and systematic child rape. You don't see the diff here?

[Macarthur]

And, btw, Matt millen is a fraking idiot.

[bolshavik]

Maybe Paterno molested Sandusky when Sandusky was a small lad. Maybe Joe Pa got off on watching Sandusky mess with lil boys. Not saying it is true but it is under the realm of possibilities. I mean Joe Pa did talk like a lil squekky perv if ya think about it.

[Farmersfan]

I am going to say something that will probably be taken wrong by the masses, but try to understand what I am saying before you attack:

Every single one of us has seen things, known things, or just suspected things that were going on around us that were wrong on some level. It may have been a criminal activity, moral failure, or ethical atrocity. The reality is there is a human nature to not get involved ourselves-but-we may pass the buck,so to speak- by telling someone else and letting them help shoulder the blame for not stepping forward. In this case, with what we know now, Paterno was WRONG to not have gone to law enforcement himself. I think we may be only scratching the surface of the number of Penn State Officials that may have had a hand in this cover up.

I guess that what I am getting at it simply that even though this tragic failure of the entire system to do the right thing does not tale away what the football program accomplished, but calls so much of the rhetoric we heard for years about the integrity of the man and program into question. Should all things Paterno be removed from the campus at State College? I really believe that in a nutshell, the statues, buildings bearing his name, and other blatant public shrines to him need to be taken down because he has proven to be not worthy of those honors. However, at the same time, I think that he3 deserves a place in the history of the football program because regardless of what happened, his teams were successful and so many of the athletes are productive and law abiding citizens. And, if the program comes back to the top of the heap, it will be because another group of athletes proved that the program was not successful because the coach was great or a "god", it happens because of the quality of the kids in the program and their ability to adapt to a system that gives them a chance for success. In other words, let history be what it is, but, don't ignore that the same man that made the program successful was the same man that was a player in bringing shame to that same program, in the least by not doing the right things and reporting his friend and continuing to be an enabler to the things that were reported to him. He let the animal use his facilities to entertain kids even after he was told what was going on.




Don't we have to ask the questions of how much did the "program" gain from this and possibly other cover ups? How much of the Penn State success would have been impossible if the administration and staff were broken up when first hint of these activities were known? How much of the Penn State success was the result of the squeaky clean reputation of the university that would have been tarnished if not for this cover up?

[Macarthur]

I am going to say something that will probably be taken wrong by the masses, but try to understand what I am saying before you attack:

Every single one of us has seen things, known things, or just suspected things that were going on around us that were wrong on some level. It may have been a criminal activity, moral failure, or ethical atrocity. The reality is there is a human nature to not get involved ourselves-but-we may pass the buck,so to speak- by telling someone else and letting them help shoulder the blame for not stepping forward. In this case, with what we know now, Paterno was WRONG to not have gone to law enforcement himself. I think we may be only scratching the surface of the number of Penn State Officials that may have had a hand in this cover up.

I guess that what I am getting at it simply that even though this tragic failure of the entire system to do the right thing does not tale away what the football program accomplished, but calls so much of the rhetoric we heard for years about the integrity of the man and program into question. Should all things Paterno be removed from the campus at State College? I really believe that in a nutshell, the statues, buildings bearing his name, and other blatant public shrines to him need to be taken down because he has proven to be not worthy of those honors. However, at the same time, I think that he3 deserves a place in the history of the football program because regardless of what happened, his teams were successful and so many of the athletes are productive and law abiding citizens. And, if the program comes back to the top of the heap, it will be because another group of athletes proved that the program was not successful because the coach was great or a "god", it happens because of the quality of the kids in the program and their ability to adapt to a system that gives them a chance for success. In other words, let history be what it is, but, don't ignore that the same man that made the program successful was the same man that was a player in bringing shame to that same program, in the least by not doing the right things and reporting his friend and continuing to be an enabler to the things that were reported to him. He let the animal use his facilities to entertain kids even after he was told what was going on.

What good really has the program done? In the really big picture, what have they done? They've done nothing for world peace. They've done nothing to feed the hungry or clothe the poor.

I think we have our priorities out of whack when we try to elevate the fact that some very talented guys got a free education and turned out to be productive members of society. Shouldn't we have that expectation of them anyway? When you contrast that with the SYSTEMATIC rape of children, doesn't it seem a little perverted? And you have to acknowledge the fact that this was not a MISTAKE! This was SYSTEMATIC! I think it is very critical that we all understand the difference here. This was not someone making one error. JoePa and the rest of the Admin was COMPLICIT in SYSTEMATIC child rape. This is the epitome of evil.

This is not about football.

[bolshavik]

Paterno was in effect THE DEVIL. How can the University not take down his statue? If they are going to keep that statue up the arda build one of good ole Uncle Sandusky.