Were the 2008 Carthage Bulldogs the best 3A team in the past 10 years?

[ctown81]

I know this sounds like a homer thread but I didn't start paying attention to 3A football until 2007 and this team was the best I've seen since following 3A. I'm just curious about some other teams that were maybe better.

[Gsquared]

I know this sounds like a homer thread but I didn't start paying attention to 3A football until 2007 and this team was the best I've seen since following 3A. I'm just curious about some other teams that were maybe better.
Good question, they are in good company with some of those Commerce, Everman, and Gilmer teams that made some runs since 2001, oh, and dont forget about that Atlanta team that was freakin redicuolus on defense that won it all.

[ctown81]

Good question, they are in good company with some of those Commerce, Everman, and Gilmer teams that made some runs since 2001, oh, and dont forget about that Atlanta team that was freakin redicuolus on defense that won it all.

How good were those Everman teams? My coworkers had a step son on that team and talks about them a lot. He compares them to the current Navasota team.

[MGAR]

How good were those Everman teams? My coworkers had a step son on that team and talks about them a lot. He compares them to the current Navasota team.

Matt Stepp in 3,2,1.....

[GrTigers6]

I know this sounds like a homer thread but I didn't start paying attention to 3A football until 2007 and this team was the best I've seen since following 3A. I'm just curious about some other teams that were maybe better.I think the 2012 Stephenville team was the best! Oh wait have they not played this season yet. Who would have known!:D

[GrTigers6]

Everman
Abilene Wylie
Gilmer
Liberty Hill and
Gainesville could be in that list as well
But who is the best can only be decided on the field

[Bullaholic]

I think the 2012 Stephenville team was the best! Oh wait have they not played this season yet. Who would have known!:D

Now that thar is funny, folks---I don't care who you are....:D

[Tejastrue]

You missed a good one in 05.

[Matthew328]

Matt Stepp in 3,2,1.....

LOL I'm not going to discuss the 2001 and 2002 Everman teams now...I'll let others do it for me haha

[MGAR]

You missed a good one in 05.

Yup, Tatum.

[ctown81]

Everman
Abilene Wylie
Gilmer
Liberty Hill and
Gainesville could be in that list as well
But who is the best can only be decided on the field

I think if Dwight Smith was in Carthage they would have beaten Liberty Hill in '07, so I figure that team couldn't beat the '08 Bulldogs. When they announce the score of the Celina/Liberty Hill game in 08 you should have heard the groans on the Carthage side. Everyone wanted Liberty Hill.

[garciap77]

I think the 2012 Stephenville team was the best! Oh wait have they not played this season yet. Who would have known!:D

No!!! Brownwood was the best team in the last 10 years!!!!

[Matthew328]

The 2001 Everman team IMO may have been the best of their two title teams...I think they could have legitimately had a shot at either 4A title...they had that kind of depth

the 2002 Everman team was more explosive and probably had one of the more dominating playoff runs in recent memory......

[MGAR]

I think if Dwight Smith was in Carthage they would have beaten Liberty Hill in '07, so I figure that team couldn't beat the '08 Bulldogs. When they announce the score of the Celina/Liberty Hill game in 08 you should have heard the groans on the Carthage side. Everyone wanted Liberty Hill.

He was busy rushing for 800 yards in Cali...

[GrTigers6]

The 2001 Everman team IMO may have been the best of their two title teams...I think they could have legitimately had a shot at either 4A title...they had that kind of depth

the 2002 Everman team was more explosive and probably had one of the more dominating playoff runs in recent memory...... Yeah we know all about those everman teams. They were in our district with aledo, lake worth, kennedale. That was rough! infact we were sitting real good for a playoff spot the last week of the season in 03. All we had to do was win the game then we realized the one game we had to win was everman. LOL I think it was 42-14 or something like that

[Matthew328]

yes Everman had Glen Rose in Week 10 those two years...the first year it was 57-0...that Everman team was "motivated" during pre-game...lol

[GrTigers6]

yes Everman had Glen Rose in Week 10 those two years...the first year it was 57-0...that Everman team was "motivated" during pre-game...lolYeah my son was in the hospital at cooks when he was first grade. So to take a break me and my brother headed over to Everman to watch that game. We got there midway in the 1st half and it was 40-0 So we turned around and drove to Hooters! LOL

[GrTigers6]

Of course had we beaten Venus that year we wouldnt have had a problem. LOL. The only time we did since i have been here. Granted they had a stud Tight end. But that was about it.

[Matthew328]

Venus did have a decent team that year....they were pretty competitive in their playoff game against Decatur also

The 2002 Everman-Glen Rose game was 44-0 at the half, Everman had 566 yards of offense...Glen Rose had 17

[GrTigers6]

Venus did have a decent team that year....they were pretty competitive in their playoff game against Decatur also

The 2002 Everman-Glen Rose game was 44-0 at the half, Everman had 566 yards of offense...Glen Rose had 17Yeah it definetly wasnt pretty. I couldnt remember the score exactly. Just know it was bad!Funny thing is that wasnt our worst defeat of the year. I believe China Spring beat us 62-0 earlier that year. OUCH

[GrTigers6]

Venus did have a decent team that year....they were pretty competitive in their playoff game against Decatur also

The 2002 Everman-Glen Rose game was 44-0 at the half, Everman had 566 yards of offense...Glen Rose had 17So did Everman lose alot between their state championship in 02 and 03 or did we just improve a little lol

[Ville-D]

I think the 2012 Stephenville team was the best! Oh wait have they not played this season yet. Who would have known!:D

Thanks for keeping it going....

[GrTigers6]

Thanks for keeping it going....I do what I can!:D

[Matthew328]

So did Everman lose alot between their state championship in 02 and 03 or did we just improve a little lol

Both....that Everman squad in 2003 lost to Abilene Wylie in area

[orange machine]

Maybe i have been hiding under a rock, but it doesnt seem that the Stephenville people are any where nearly as bad as the Brownwood people were when they moved down from 4a.

[bigwood33]

I had several coaches that know Coach Surratt tell me that HE said the '10 team was his best team. He said that early on, they weren't but by the end of the year, they were. He said that his defense was better and the offense was about the same.

The '08 Bulldogs playoff averages were: PPG- 47.8 and the defense gave up 23.5
The '10 Bulldogs playoff averages were: PPG- 44.3 and the defense gave up 19.5

My vote goes to the '07 LH Panthers: PPG- 43.6 and the defense only gave up 12.4. The fact that they beat a very good Gilmer team in the championship without throwing a pass is amazing!

In reality, the difference between any of the champions of the last 20 years or so is incredibly slim. There is certainly no way to prove who was better as there will be as many opinions as there are predictions. If you are an east Texas guy, I would bet that you would say that one of those teams was best. If you are a CenTex guy, you will pick one of those teams, etc, etc.

They were all great.

[Gone Fishing]

Most of ya'll, JUST won't go south of the teams you mention!!!! Wimberley.... By the way how many teams have won two state championships in the time frame your talking about (one in D1 and one in D2), and deep playoffs every year but one (08) ?? Why no respect?

[bigwood33]

Most of ya'll, JUST won't go south of the teams you mention!!!! Wimberley.... By the way how many teams have won two state championships in the time frame your talking about (one in D1 and one in D2), and deep playoffs every year but one (08) ?? Why no respect?
You're proving my point.
Those Wimberley teams were outstanding, I just think the '07 LH group was better.

[HEMOTOXIC]

I had several coaches that know Coach Surratt tell me that HE said the '10 team was his best team. He said that early on, they weren't but by the end of the year, they were. He said that his defense was better and the offense was about the same.

The '08 Bulldogs playoff averages were: PPG- 47.8 and the defense gave up 23.5
The '10 Bulldogs playoff averages were: PPG- 44.3 and the defense gave up 19.5

My vote goes to the '07 LH Panthers: PPG- 43.6 and the defense only gave up 12.4. The fact that they beat a very good Gilmer team in the championship without throwing a pass is amazing!

In reality, the difference between any of the champions of the last 20 years or so is incredibly slim. There is certainly no way to prove who was better as there will be as many opinions as there are predictions. If you are an east Texas guy, I would bet that you would say that one of those teams was best. If you are a CenTex guy, you will pick one of those teams, etc, etc.

They were all great.

I did get a chance to see that 07 LH team... They were outstanding!

[Old Tiger]

The atlanta team that won state in 03? against Marlin was one of the fastest teams I've ever seen.

[Lion70]

The atlanta team that won state in 03? against Marlin was one of the fastest teams I've ever seen.

They also had a sick scheldule if I recall all 4a teams. Explaining that 6-4 record not many would have done better.

Atlanta 6 4a Paris 3
4aHallsville 16 Atlanta 13
4a Tex High 19 Atlanta 7
4aMt Pleasant 27 Atlanta 26
4a Marshall 14 Atlanta 12

So they played all 4A's (at the time), won one, lost three others by a field goal or less, and dropped one game to an eventual 4A DI state semifinalist by two touchdowns. So they weren't just running themselves into a thresher like in recent years, but had the type of talent that could play against those teams and play well.

[Rabid Cougar]

Yeah it definetly wasnt pretty. I couldnt remember the score exactly. Just know it was bad!Funny thing is that wasnt our worst defeat of the year. I believe China Spring beat us 62-0 earlier that year. OUCH

Yes and the tradition continues.......

[oldtownag]

'10 Carthage was better than '08 Carthage.

P.S. '10 Carthage was better than '10 Brownwood too!

[bigwood33]

P.S. '10 Carthage was better than '10 Brownwood too!
But what a great game! Certainly the 2 best teams that year and who knows, without that ridiculous interference call at the end, it COULD have gone the other way. Two different but very evenly matched teams.

[oldtownag]

But what a great game! Certainly the 2 best teams that year and who knows, without that ridiculous interference call at the end, it COULD have gone the other way. Two different but very evenly matched teams.

The best High School game I have ever witnessed for sure. The victory was sweet indeed. I think the BW fans, coaches, and maybe even players were convinced they would win the title. They forgot they were playing the back to back champs and were actually the underdog.

P.S. I remember a questionable call or two going against Carthage!

[bigwood33]

P.S. I remember a questionable call or two going against Carthage!
No doubt there may have been other calls/no calls that were questionable but the timing of that particular call, which definitely should have gone against Carthage and not Brownwood, it is highly likely that Brownwood would have scored. Now, the question that we will never have answered is, would Coach Shipley gone for 2 (I think probably so) or settled for 1 and gone to overtime? Of course that is pure speculation but man, was it fun!

[Tejastrue]

No doubt there may have been other calls/no calls that were questionable but the timing of that particular call, which definitely should have gone against Carthage and not Brownwood, it is highly likely that Brownwood would have scored. Now, the question that we will never have answered is, would Coach Shipley gone for 2 (I think probably so) or settled for 1 and gone to overtime? Of course that is pure speculation but man, was it fun!

During the broadcast of our SC game last Dec. in which Shipley was a commentator, he talked about that last drive and mentioned they had not stopped Carthage all game and if they had the chance they were definitely going for two.

[bigwood33]

Kind of what I figured.

[Matthew328]

I never got to see the 2007 Liberty Hill team, kinda wish I had..

the 2002 Everman team which beat Burnet in the title game outscored their five playoff foes by an average of 44-7

[Lion70]

The past 10 yrs Carthage maybe all time not even close 83 Dfield.

[buckeyebob]

Most of ya'll, JUST won't go south of the teams you mention!!!! Wimberley.... By the way how many teams have won two state championships in the time frame your talking about (one in D1 and one in D2), and deep playoffs every year but one (08) ?? Why no respect?

Gilmer

'04 Div 2
'09 Div 1 (Carthage won Div 2 & they were larger than the Bucs

[buckeyebob]

I did get a chance to see that 07 LH team... They were outstanding!

I saw 'em....& it was real cold.

[buckeyebob]

'10 Carthage was better than '08 Carthage.

P.S. '10 Carthage was better than '10 Brownwood too!

You are so bad!

[buckeyebob]

The best High School game I have ever witnessed for sure. The victory was sweet indeed. I think the BW fans, coaches, and maybe even players were convinced they would win the title. They forgot they were playing the back to back champs and were actually the underdog.

P.S. I remember a questionable call or two going against Carthage!

Best High School Game I Ever Saw

Gilmer & Cuero 2009 Huntsville & The Run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyqUGFkS2lI&feature=related
They knew Stump was coming on the TD & the Xtra

[buckeyebob]

Buckeyes
• 10 consecutive years in the playoffs, 6th time in the past 9 years to reach the 4th round of the playoffs
• 128 – 18 over last 10 years, 27-8 in playoff games
• 86% winning percentage is the 3rd best among all classifications in Texas
• Won more games than any other 3A team in the state since 2001
• Won state championship (2004 & 2009 – both undefeated seasons) or lost in the playoffs to the eventual state champion in 6 of the past 8 years
• Averaging 492 total yards per game, 231 passing & 261 rushing

I'm just saying.

[LHPfactory]

I think if Dwight Smith was in Carthage they would have beaten Liberty Hill in '07, so I figure that team couldn't beat the '08 Bulldogs. When they announce the score of the Celina/Liberty Hill game in 08 you should have heard the groans on the Carthage side. Everyone wanted Liberty Hill.

Dwight Smith would not have changed anything for Carthage, The 07 LH team shut down Dwight Smiths all the way to the title game, Justin Johnson, a dang good ball player was held to 17 yards By LH. Dexter Pratt was a top National RB, he couldnt change fate for Navasota. The 07 Panthers were good and just got better and better each week, when you thought surely they have peeked, the following week they would take it a step higher. Ive watched alot of football and the 07 LH team was not filled with D1 talent, but was a complete team, full of good athletes that relentlessly executed play after play. LH physically pounded Carthage down after down after down in 2007...... 1 player would have never made up for that.....

[MGAR]

Dwight Smith would not have changed anything for Carthage, The 07 LH team shut down Dwight Smiths all the way to the title game, Justin Johnson, a dang good ball player was held to 17 yards By LH. Dexter Pratt was a top National RB, he couldnt change fate for Navasota. The 07 Panthers were good and just got better and better each week, when you thought surely they have peeked, the following week they would take it a step higher. Ive watched alot of football and the 07 LH team was not filled with D1 talent, but was a complete team, full of good athletes that relentlessly executed play after play. LH physically pounded Carthage down after down after down in 2007...... 1 player would have never made up for that.....

Guess you never saw the offensive line that the 08 Carthage team had?

Best 3A line I have ever seen.

and this is coming from a guy that can't stand Carthage.

[LHPfactory]

Guess you never saw the offensive line that the 08 Carthage team had?

Best 3A line I have ever seen.

and this is coming from a guy that can't stand Carthage.

Gilmer had a collection of Giants up front in 2007, Including David Snow (UT/Buffalo Bills), and were still physically dominated in every aspect of that game, no offense Buckeyes ;)

[LHPfactory]

Gilmer had a collection of Giants up front in 2007, Including David Snow (UT/Buffalo Bills), and were still physically dominated in every aspect of that game, no offense Buckeyes ;)

And by no offense I mean dont take offense, no pun intended..... ;)

[MGAR]

Gilmer had a collection of Giants up front in 2007, Including David Snow (UT/Buffalo Bills), and were still physically dominated in every aspect of that game, no offense Buckeyes ;)

Yea, I know.. Seem them too... Still would take Carthage over LH..

[waterboy]

Yea, I know.. Seem them too... Still would take Carthage over LH..
I saw both of them, too, and I would have to say '07 Liberty Hill would've dominated Carthage's '08 team. Maybe not as much as they did Gilmer in '07, but they still would've beaten them, in my opinion. The Gilmer team of '09 would've beaten both, in my opinion.

[MGAR]

I saw both of them, too, and I would have to say '07 Liberty Hill would've dominated Carthage's '08 team. Maybe not as much as they did Gilmer in '07, but they still would've beaten them, in my opinion. The Gilmer team of '09 would've beaten both, in my opinion.

Oh yea, the 1937 Longview team would of beat them all, even the '12 Stephenville team.

[ctown81]

Oh yea, the 1937 Longview team would of beat them all, even the '12 Stephenville team.

That '37 Lobo team was pretty stout.

[1st and goal]

Guess you never saw the offensive line that the 08 Carthage team had?

Best 3A line I have ever seen.

and this is coming from a guy that can't stand Carthage.

this. Seen both teams. LH in 07 and Carthage 08. Seems like Carthage had 3 offensive linemen out in front of Dwight Smith pancaking linebackers every play. Smith followed his blocks well. Whatever happened to him? 07 LH vs 08 Carthage would surely be a clash of titans.

[MGAR]

this. Seen both teams. LH in 07 and Carthage 08. Seems like Carthage had 3 offensive linemen out in front of Dwight Smith pancaking linebackers every play. Smith followed his blocks well. Whatever happened to him? 07 LH vs 08 Carthage would surely be a clash of titans.

Smith has plans to play for the mighty Southern Arkansas.

[buckeyebob]

Gilmer had a collection of Giants up front in 2007, Including David Snow (UT/Buffalo Bills), and were still physically dominated in every aspect of that game, no offense Buckeyes ;)

Like a drum...started with a Soph. QB named Stump and a broken right thumb...and it was cold...the weather as well as the team. I do agree with waterboy...'09 Stump was a senior, 15-0, 782-277 for the season...I think they would have taken them all.

[icu812]

I saw both of them, too, and I would have to say '07 Liberty Hill would've dominated Carthage's '08 team. Maybe not as much as they did Gilmer in '07, but they still would've beaten them, in my opinion. The Gilmer team of '09 would've beaten both, in my opinion.

Saw all three. I agree about 07 LH beating 08 Carthage but I think they would beat the very very good 09 Gilmer team as well. I'd like to see 07 LH's O vs 2003 Atl D. Would have been fun to watch that Atl speed chase down those LH RB's. LH is the best I've seen in past 10 yrs, followed by 08 Carthage.

[Cam]

Maybe i have been hiding under a rock, but it doesnt seem that the Stephenville people are any where nearly as bad as the Brownwood people were when they moved down from 4a.

Well OM...ain't nothin' wrong with hidin' under a rock.....way better than pissin' rocks ain't it?!.........

[LionFan72]

I know this sounds like a homer thread but I didn't start paying attention to 3A football until 2007 and this team was the best I've seen since following 3A. I'm just curious about some other teams that were maybe better.

Nope! Good, yes indeed, best; maybe third possibly fourth best is last ten........Lilberty Hill, Gilmer, Celina/Carthage in my estimation.

[cowboyandchrist]

I saw both of them, too, and I would have to say '07 Liberty Hill would've dominated Carthage's '08 team. Maybe not as much as they did Gilmer in '07, but they still would've beaten them, in my opinion. The Gilmer team of '09 would've beaten both, in my opinion.

Carthage 08 and LH 07 would have come down to the fourth quarter. I think Carthage wins with a Smith 60 yard TD. No player on LH could catch Smith or tackel Smith in the open field.

[Lion70]

Oh yea, the 1937 Longview team would of beat them all, even the '12 Stephenville team.

Leather helments lobos would not stand a chance.

[hsbtex]

Saw all three. I agree about 07 LH beating 08 Carthage but I think they would beat the very very good 09 Gilmer team as well. I'd like to see 07 LH's O vs 2003 Atl D. Would have been fun to watch that Atl speed chase down those LH RB's. LH is the best I've seen in past 10 yrs, followed by 08 Carthage.

I agree...Liberty Hill 07 was the best team in 3A the last ten years. Seeing them play Gilmer at Floyd Casey was all you needed to see. A distant second to that team would be the 09 Gilmer team...they were good!

[bobcat1]

I did not get to see 07 LH. I saw them in 06 and they were very good then. That Slot T was awesome to watch. Celina 06 was a great team but did not play their best when it mattered most. Celina 07 was a very good team and won it all undefeated. They would have fared much better against 08 Carthage and 06 LH. 08 Celina played their best game in Midilothian against LH that year. I only wish there would have been one more game in 07 with Celina/LH for it all. Now that would have been a game to see.

Brownwood/Carthage was probably the best offensive game I have seen. Neither team could really stop the other. Carthage running back ran all over Brownwood D. Good game, should have been the State Game and it all honesty it probably was for the title.

[Super_R]

LH held 2 State Championships simultaniously...06' DII and 07' DI. That has never been done.

They also happened to win 38 games in a row...from 05'--08'.

LH was phanominal on both sides of the ball in 07'.

[MGAR]

LH held 2 State Championships simultaniously...06' DII and 07' DI. That has never been done.

They also happened to win 38 games in a row...from 05'--08'.

LH was phanominal on both sides of the ball in 07'.

Back to Back state championships have never been done?

Am I missing something?

[Super_R]

Back to Back state championships have never been done?

Am I missing something?

Yes...you are missing something. They were still the 06' Champs when they won the 07' Championship. They held both titles for almost a week.

[MGAR]

Yes...you are missing something. They were still the 06' Champs when they won the 07' Championship. They held both titles for almost a week.

Did they get extra medal or put something on rings?

[Gobblerfan]

OMG...............that game was insane. Kudos to Gilmer for stopping the Gobblers on 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th down and goal!!!!! It sure was a heartbreaker for the Gobblers though.

[Super_R]

Did they get extra medal or put something on rings?


Yep...and new Corvettes.

[ctown81]

I agree...Liberty Hill 07 was the best team in 3A the last ten years. Seeing them play Gilmer at Floyd Casey was all you needed to see. A distant second to that team would be the 09 Gilmer team...they were good!

I know a lot of people, even from Carthage think the 2009 Gilmer team was better. If they were it wasn't by much. The '09 Carthage team had the same OL from '08 and one of the best QB's carthage has ever had. When we beat Gilmer in '08, we were more than 3 points better. We kept them in that game and Surrat and Co. called a pretty bad game which he openly admitted. He made one particular call on the goal line that almost cost us the game when he threw a pass that got intercepted instead of giving it to Smith. If we had scored I believe it would have gotten ugly JMO. What was different about the '09 Gilmer team to make them that much better. Not saying they couldn't beat us in '09 but i don't think it was a given.

[hsbtex]

I did not get to see 07 LH. I saw them in 06 and they were very good then. That Slot T was awesome to watch. Celina 06 was a great team but did not play their best when it mattered most. Celina 07 was a very good team and won it all undefeated. They would have fared much better against 08 Carthage and 06 LH. 08 Celina played their best game in Midilothian against LH that year. I only wish there would have been one more game in 07 with Celina/LH for it all. Now that would have been a game to see.

Brownwood/Carthage was probably the best offensive game I have seen. Neither team could really stop the other. Carthage running back ran all over Brownwood D. Good game, should have been the State Game and it all honesty it probably was for the title.

I agree Bobcat, that was one of the best games I have ever seen. And Carthage running back ran over most of them...with the exception of Longoria. I remember seeing the Carthage running back getting smelling salts on the sideline after a few of those hits. He didn't know where he was after one of them. The other game I saw like that was when Plano played Euliss Trinity in the quarterfinals a few years ago. Rex Burkhead almost single handidly beat them. Neither team could stop the other's offense. They would even put him at safety in key situations, and he had two interceptions that game. And for 5a Div. 1...that is saying something

[YTBulldogs]

I'll give a shout out to the 09 Cuero Gobblers. Gilmer beat them, but--I say Cuero was the better team. No disrespect Gilmer. Ya'll had the better player, in Godfrey and he was amazing. One of the best games I ever seen. Ranks right there with Daingerfield/Cameron Yoe, Aledo/Wimberley for me.