Good Call / Bad Call

[FB-fanatic]

What is the opinion on this call at a playoff game between the Riesel Indians and the Bartlett Bulldogs?

Home Plate Call (http://youtu.be/JNEgT5XUNHk)

[Saggy Aggie]

Wow. Looked to me like he was safe by a mile. Not even close

[Roughneck93]

Safe! That ump from Bartlett or something?

[FB-fanatic]

I watched the replay over and over at least 15 times using stop/play, and I could not freeze it one time catching a definative "safe" at home. My first reaction was he was safe by a mile, but after watching 15 times, the catcher made the sweep between the legs *very* quickly. I'm not an umpire, but if I have the benefit of video and still can't find the error, I have to go with the call on the field.

[Tejastrue]

It was close..but he was definitely safe..


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4756651049419016&id=d4e16ce9d9dfbe55033c6244ac2c7f2c

I will add..it was not a bad call..just not the right call..

[3&2count]

I can't believe he rang him up

[yellaseeker]

I definately have a problem with this call. I was able to break it down frame by frame and it is not as close as it appears. While it appears closer, stopping and starting it in regular speed, it is very clear that he is safe by a good margin when you can look at it in slow motion and stopping it frame by frame. The problem i have is, that his judgement is not very good IMO. I have been around the game awhile and been associated with a number of Umpires, even good friends with a few. When a umpire doesn't see a definate out made, he doesn't call it an out or atlease he shouldn't. It's a simple unwritten rule amongst many. You don't call an out if you don't see an out, period. So, either he has real bad judgement or, in his view, the play was so close at live speed that he could not differentiate and chose to call him out. Either way, it was a bad situation and definately the wrong call. I can tell you that if i had been in that situation, the runner would have gotten the benefit of the doubt but, most likely called safe without any doubt. Hope that wasn't a game changer cause he definately blew it.

[Tejastrue]

I definately have a problem with this call. I was able to break it down frame by frame and it is not as close as it appears. While it appears closer, stopping and starting it in regular speed, it is very clear that he is safe by a good margin when you can look at it in slow motion and stopping it frame by frame. The problem i have is, that his judgement is not very good IMO. I have been around the game awhile and been associated with a number of Umpires, even good friends with a few. When a umpire doesn't see a definate out made, he doesn't call it an out or atlease he shouldn't. It's a simple unwritten rule amongst many. You don't call an out if you don't see an out, period. So, either he has real bad judgement or, in his view, the play was so close at live speed that he could not differentiate and chose to call him out. Either way, it was a bad situation and definately the wrong call. I can tell you that if i had been in that situation, the runner would have gotten the benefit of the doubt but, most likely called safe without any doubt. Hope that wasn't a game changer cause he definately blew it.


OMG..frame by frame?? High school game?? It was not as close as it appears?

[yellaseeker]

Hey, FB-fanatic asked for an opinion and that's what i gave. It's not a debate so get off my sack! Don't understand why some people can't value someone elses opinion even in disagreement. It would be one thing if you simply disagreed and stated why but you just can't fight off the urge to be an A-hole about it. I'm beginning to see how some have so many posts in such a short time period on here. They waste a lot of them trying to discredit someone elses opinion in a smart a$$ way. And no, i won't be as immature as to having a war of post where we go back and forth blasting each other so, you may have the last word. :tisk:

[zebrablue2]

I have to reply! He was out because thats what blue called. Was he safe? From the catch, tag and where the foot was on the slide, heck yes he was.. Terrible call!!!

[Rabid Cougar]

He looks safe to me. However, I challange anyone to go call a game and see how "easy" it is. Even the pros make bone head calls too.

[Bull's-eye]

Looked safe to me! Terrible call.

[regaleagle]

Most probably he got caught up in the excitement of the game and did not use his better judgement. It appeared to me that most people watching would have called the runner safe, and saw the play in the same time sequence as the ump. Sometimes, IMO, umps make bad calls at the level simply because they want to exert their decision-making influence over the game, instead of making the call that most would have called...definintely safe!!! It happens in all sports, but esp. at this level. Just a bad call at a crucial time. Shame on him.

[BaseballUmp]

That first base ump looks very familiar to me lol

[Tejastrue]

Hey, FB-fanatic asked for an opinion and that's what i gave. It's not a debate so get off my sack! Don't understand why some people can't value someone elses opinion even in disagreement. It would be one thing if you simply disagreed and stated why but you just can't fight off the urge to be an A-hole about it. I'm beginning to see how some have so many posts in such a short time period on here. They waste a lot of them trying to discredit someone elses opinion in a smart a$$ way. And no, i won't be as immature as to having a war of post where we go back and forth blasting each other so, you may have the last word. :tisk:

My response was not directed at you alone but I did have your comment in my post so it appeared that way. My mistake. My point being..it was high school and we are breaking it down like a MLB game. I will add..I have so many posts because the Texans were frickin 29-1 the last two years but seriously.. when, where and how many I have should be of no concern to you and when I value an opinion they will have my utmost respect. Sorry, I don't value everyone's opinion nor do I expect them to value mine.

[Tejastrue]

He looks safe to me. However, I challange anyone to go call a game and see how "easy" it is. Even the pros make bone head calls too.

Exactly..

[bobcat1]

Safe. Not even close. Turrible call! (In my best Charles Barkley voice) The video had the same angle the ump did. HIs foot crosses the plate while catcher is in the air still. The runner is knee deep across the plate before swipe is attempted. Not sure catcher ever even touched him. Lousy break for Riesel.

[Saggy Aggie]

Looked to me like had slid damn near all the way across the plate before the guy got the tag

Have no idea how that was called out?

[BaseballUmp]

Haha yep just talked to my friend and indeed he was the 1st base ump that game...quite a story lol

[Tejastrue]

Haha yep just talked to my friend and indeed he was the 1st base ump that game...quite a story lol

Care to share...:D

[BaseballUmp]

Naw can't single them out like that lol

[Tejastrue]

Naw can't single them out like that lol

I never expected you would. Can't fault me for trying..:wave:

[ramfan]

safe

[Saggy Aggie]

idk how to post a picture on here, but heres a link.

this seems pretty obvious to me?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/screwed.png/

[Rabid Cougar]

This call is just one play of the game. What about an extra large strike zone (consistantly 6 inches outside/inside off the plate or just above the ankles) that impacts every batter? No one flames an ump on discussion boards/Facebook for that.

[Saggy Aggie]

This call is just one play of the game. What about an extra large strike zone (consistantly 6 inches outside/inside off the plate or just above the ankles) that impacts every batter? No one flames an ump on discussion boards/Facebook for that. because as long as he is consistent with the call for both teams, it's fair. Teams aren't getting screwed. Thie batting team in this case got screwed.

[FB-fanatic]

idk how to post a picture on here, but heres a link.

this seems pretty obvious to me?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/screwed.png/

Even though my son graduates Thursday from TAMU, I still can't agree with you. I do not see a definitive runners foot on the plate in this picture. I agree, the catchers arm is still extended, but I don't see a clear safe. In the next frame, the catcher drops a between-the-leg tag quickly, at which point the runner *may* be at the plate, but from this film not definitive. Now, do I *think* the catchers mitt dropped low enough to make the tag on the sliding runner? No. But the film is not clear. Reminds me of the Aggie game vs. UT at home last year. I believe it was whether the UT player had gotten a first down. The ruling on the field was no. On replay, the runner was obstructed by another player. Did it *appear* that logic would say the UT player had gained enough yards? Yes. Was there conclusive video evidence? No. But they overruled the call on the field based on logic, not on video evidence. I felt that was not right.

[defense51]

He looks safe, but without being able to zoom in for a closer look I couldn't argue the call.

[VWG]

From the replay, safe... but as previous guys have stated... it ain't an easy gig being an official.

[Saggy Aggie]

Even though my son graduates Thursday from TAMU, I still can't agree with you. I do not see a definitive runners foot on the plate in this picture. I agree, the catchers arm is still extended, but I don't see a clear safe. In the next frame, the catcher drops a between-the-leg tag quickly, at which point the runner *may* be at the plate, but from this film not definitive. Now, do I *think* the catchers mitt dropped low enough to make the tag on the sliding runner? No. But the film is not clear. Reminds me of the Aggie game vs. UT at home last year. I believe it was whether the UT player had gotten a first down. The ruling on the field was no. On replay, the runner was obstructed by another player. Did it *appear* that logic would say the UT player had gained enough yards? Yes. Was there conclusive video evidence? No. But they overruled the call on the field based on logic, not on video evidence. I felt that was not right. is there something definitive that says he got tagged BEFORE the runner touched the plate? Thought the benefit of the doubt goes to the runner?

Its looks to me like he's almost completely past the catcher before he applies the tag. I don't see any way that the runner hasn't slid completely across the plate before the tag is applied.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

looked safe no doubt at regular speed, but after pausing and advancing it shows how close to this play was and it seems the runner bends his knees on the leg crossing the plate while he tags him. Could go either way so the ump saw it as a out so that stands. But regular speed does looks like safe without a doubt so i can see how the fans went crazy lol.

[Gone Fishing]

He looks safe to me. However, I challange anyone to go call a game and see how "easy" it is. Even the pros make bone head calls too.


This call is just one play of the game. What about an extra large strike zone (consistantly 6 inches outside/inside off the plate or just above the ankles) that impacts every batter? No one flames an ump on discussion boards/Facebook for that.

I have umped many games up to the 14 year old age and no way does a coach on the bence or in the box OR a parent in the second row stands OR where the film was taken from have a better view than Blue!! Does the kid look safe? Sure everyone can see that. What if he slide right past the plate instead of over it. Can't see that! Unless you were standing next to Blue.
Ive seen many more games lost because of a no good cheating ump calling balls and strikes than one bad safe or out call.

[bigwood33]

The umpire obstructs to view of the plate but unless the kid just missed home plate, it was a TERRIBLE call. Based on the way that the catcher was positioned, it is highly likely that the kid crossed home plate since he slid between the legs of the catcher. I sure hope the game wasn't decided by one run...that run.

[Yoe_09]

I could understand if it were kind of close....but yeah.

[BaseballUmp]

I wish people would stop saying and assuming "Tie goes to the runner" there's nothing in the rule book or and training you go through that will tell you that. Either he's out or safe. You don't have the time to take into account the situation. It's a quick reaction safe/out ball/strike. So yea tie does not go to the runner

[Tejastrue]

I wish people would stop saying and assuming "Tie goes to the runner" there's nothing in the rule book or and training you go through that will tell you that. Either he's out or safe. You don't have the time to take into account the situation. It's a quick reaction safe/out ball/strike. So yea tie does not go to the runner

I know you must cringe every time you see a thread like this...I don't know why it's so difficult to recruit umps or refs. They're everywhere..:D

[Astrosdawg07]

The plate umpire is out of position on this call.

[Ville-D]

Another angle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQ60OGyKUs

[Saggy Aggie]

Another angle:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQ60OGyKUs
at 6 seconds in this video, if you pause it, there is a frame that shows the kids foot on the plate and the catchers glove a couple feet above the runner. He hasnt even started to apply the tag and the kid is on the plate...

[bobcat1]

Still safe. bad call.

[Gone Fishing]

Wow from this new angle the kid was safe. Bad call.

[MGAR]

The plate umpire is out of position on this call.

What position should he have been in?

I think first base extended is the right position to be in on this play, which was what he was in.

[Astrosdawg07]

What position should he have been in?

I think first base extended is the right position to be in on this play, which was what he was in.

3rd base extended! 3BE for swipe tags and and 1BE for collision plays. Had he been 3BE he would have had the play coming into him.

[MGAR]

3rd base extended! 3BE for swipe tags and and 1BE for collision plays. Had he been 1BE he would have had the play coming into him.

I see what you are saying..

Personally, I'm not a fan of 3BE... Always feels like I'm missing something.

[Astrosdawg07]

I see what you are saying..

Personally, I'm not a fan of 3BE... Always feels like I'm missing something.

What is taught at the professional level.

[MGAR]

What is taught at the professional level.

Well yea, if this game had "professional" umpires then all would be right in the world.

[Astrosdawg07]

No, just proper training!

[BEAST]

I have watched it several times from both videos. I have no clue what he saw that made him determine the runner was out. To me, it wasnt even close.




BEAST

[bigwood33]

He (the umpire) must have been ready to go home.

[BaseballUmp]

From what I heard talking to the 1B ump, he(plate ump) said he heard the tag hit the helmet before the kid crossed the plate. Not saying I agree or even understand the physics of such a play, but that's how he saw/heard it.

[bobcat1]

From what I heard talking to the 1B ump, he(plate ump) said he heard the tag hit the helmet before the kid crossed the plate. Not saying I agree or even understand the physics of such a play, but that's how he saw/heard it.Maybe he heard the ball hit the glove before the kid slid across the plate. In no way could it have been a slap on the helmet before he crossed the plate. I'm not real sure a tag was ever applied in the first place after watching both videos. I agree with bigwood33, must have had someplace to be.

[zebrablue2]

From what I heard talking to the 1B ump, he(plate ump) said he heard the tag hit the helmet before the kid crossed the plate. Not saying I agree or even understand the physics of such a play, but that's how he saw/heard it.


:evillol:

[coach]

Looks safe to me, but to say its the worst call ever made is incorrect. I have seen way more worse calls than this one. Did anyone see that MLB game where Todd Helton was a foot off the bag and they called the runner out?

[Yoe_09]

Looks safe to me, but to say its the worst call ever made is incorrect. I have seen way more worse calls than this one. Did anyone see that MLB game where Todd Helton was a foot off the bag and they called the runner out?

That was bad, but this is worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEp7JBcDwQE

[Ville-D]

There will always be bad calls. Unfortunately it is part of the game. It is just sad when the game is so close that it affects the outcome.

[GrTigers6]

That was bad, but this is worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEp7JBcDwQEThat is the worst mechanics I have ever seen. First of all Im not sure he was out even if he did catch the ball. 2nd he calls him out without checking to see if he had the ball