Mavs

[Saggy Aggie]

Was about 3 mins into the game before dallas even hit the rim lol

[regaleagle]

Not a TEAM this year, and Dirk looks tired and worn out. If KD starts hitting at all, it's all over for the Mavs. They had their chances in the first game, and blew it. The second game, they just lost at the end. They just don't have the fight in them to come back from 2 down.

[Roughneck93]

This series might be over on Saturday...
http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Jobs_and_People/Maids_and_Cleaners/Broom.gif

[coach]

Was about 3 mins into the game before dallas even hit the rim lol

its the third game of the first round and houston has yet to touch the floor...

[Phil C]

I wonder what happened that made them go from great champions to possible first round swept. Well they will always have that 2011 NBA Championship.

[Bullaholic]

I wonder what happened that made them go from great champions to possible first round swept. Well they will always have that 2011 NBA Championship.

Probably the loss of key defensive players, father time, plus the second sentence of your post, Phil.

[waterboy]

Stick a fork in the Mavs. They're done.

[Saggy Aggie]

its the third game of the first round and houston has yet to touch the floor... yeah, finished 2 games behind dallas in a year where they had arguably their 2 best players miss about half the season (Lowry - 14 ppg, 7 apg, 5 rpg & Martin - 17 ppg, 3 apg, 3 rpg) , a new coach trying to put in a new system in a shortened season.

Not too bad, the thing is, houston is young. They've got a bright future. While Dallas meanwhile, has nothing but aging veterans who obviously can no longer get it done. Just glad its not Houston out there getting embarrassed by OKC.

[Pick6]

Never understood why people were happy to be sitting at home during the playoffs. That's a loser mentality. It doesn't make much sense. Dallas has a bright future. They have money to spend and will have better players playing with Dirk next year. Mchale coaching Rockets shouldn't bred confidence for Rockets fans. How many playoff series has he won as a GM or Coach??

[Saggy Aggie]

Never understood why people were happy to be sitting at home during the playoffs. That's a loser mentality. It doesn't make much sense. Dallas has a bright future. They have money to spend and will have better players playing with Dirk next year. Mchale coaching Rockets shouldn't bred confidence for Rockets fans. How many playoff series has he won as a GM or Coach?? no one is happy to be at home, just stating that IMO mchale did a hell of a coaching job to even finish with a winning record in his first year with several significant injuries.

And to say the macs have a bright future is stupid. What player on the macs roster right now gives you and hope at all moving forward? They're all old slow and past they'd prime

[HEMOTOXIC]

Never understood why people were happy to be sitting at home during the playoffs. That's a loser mentality. It doesn't make much sense. Dallas has a bright future. They have money to spend and will have better players playing with Dirk next year. Mchale coaching Rockets shouldn't bred confidence for Rockets fans. How many playoff series has he won as a GM or Coach??

LOL.. I am not sure where or how you got that anyone was happy to be at home during the playoffs..

As Saggy stated, the Rockets were without their top two players in Lowery and Martin down the stretch. For the Rockets to even be in the hunt all the way til the very end was an OUTSTANDING coaching job. Atleast that is what I got from is message. Believe me, I wish for the best for all Texas teams.

[Saggy Aggie]

no one is happy to be at home, just stating that IMO mchale did a hell of a coaching job to even finish with a winning record in his first year with several significant injuries.

And to say the macs have a bright future is stupid. What player on the macs roster right now gives you and hope at all moving forward? They're all old slow and past they'd prime iPhone autocorrect really messed up my spelling here. You get the idea though

[Pick6]

Dirk is still better than anyone on the Rockets team. Deron Williams has a good chance of playing for the Mavs next season. Cuban will have plenty of cash and options to get this team moving forward again.

[Saggy Aggie]

Dirk is still better than anyone on the Rockets team. Deron Williams has a good chance of playing for the Mavs next season. Cuban will have plenty of cash and options to get this team moving forward again. but the rockets 2-5 are all better than the mavs 2-5.

And Dirk isnt that much better than Scola. The only reason the mavs are in the playoffs this year instead of the rockets is because of injuries and the fact that you guys didnt have to deal with a new coach and new system in a season with no training camp and reduced practice.

Kevin Martin >= Jason Terry
Lowry/Dragic >>> Kidd/Beaubois
Scola isnt as good as dirk, but not far behind.
Dalembert/Camby vs Haywood/Wright is a slight advantage in the rockets favor IMO
Chandler Parsons and vince carter have almost identical stats ( 10 ppg and 5 rpg) but parsons is a rookie who really showed what he can do in the latter half of the season while carter is an aging veteran on the decline. Several times in the 2nd half parsons dropped 20 or more. The kid is probably the biggest unknown ont he rockets team but has a chance to be a star in this league.

Not to mention the rockets have Courtney Lee coming off the bench averaging 11.5 points per game, and the rockets have as much or more flexibility financially than the mavs do. The rockets have the pieces to go with a potential superstar in free agency. The mavs have old role players.

Lets see who has a better next 5 years.

[icu812]

And to say the macs have a bright future is stupid. What player on the macs roster right now gives you and hope at all moving forward? They're all old slow and past they'd prime

Actually, no its not stupid. The Mavs roster next year will look nothing like it does this year. They will have a lot of cap room and even more if they amnesty Haywood. I'd amnesty Haywood. Then start over with Dirk, Trix and the young guys already on the roster that have cheap contracts.

Dirk - 20. 9 mill
Matrix - 8.6 mill
Roddy - 2.2 mill
D.Jones - 1.2 mill
B.Wright - 940k
Azibuke - 992k
+1st round pick

I think they will have maybe as many as 8 roster spots open. With a $58-$61,000,000 cap next year that leaves some serious $$ to fill out the roster. I would imagine Cuban will target DWill to start with and if that doesn't work out go after Dragic which would leave even more $ for other good players. The Dwight Howard situation doesn't looked settled yet either. Lot of options belowe are some of the free agents that will be available (not counting some of the mavs FA's). The complete list is at http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FreeAgents-12-13/nba-free-agents-2012-2013

PG - 1. Deron Williams
2. Goran Dragic
3. Steve Nash
4. George Hill
5. Delonte West
6. Kirk Hinrich
7. Aaron Brooks
8. Jeremy Lin
9. Dj Augustin
10. Patty Mills
11. Jerad Bayless

Sg - 1. Landry Fields
2. Nick Young
3. Mikael Pietrus
4. Deshawn Stevenson
5. Marco Belinelli
6. Jodie Meeks
7. Courtney Lee
8. CJ Miles
9. Shannon Brown
10. Brandon Rush
11. Danny Green
12. Alonzo Gee
13. James Anderson

Sf - 1. Sam Young
2. Chase Budinger
3. Andres Nocioni
4. Donte Greene
5. Matt Barnes
6. Devin Ebanks
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Bill Walker
9. Jamario Moon
10. Rasual Butler
11. Steve Novak
12. Grant Hill

Pf - 1. Carl Landry
2. Jj hickson
3. Mareese Speights
4. Erson Illaysova
5. Jason Thompson
6. Darrell Arthur
7. Reggie Evans
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Chris Wilcox
10. Jerad Jeffries

C - 1. Chris Kaman
2. Spencer Hawes
3. Omer Asik
4. Krylo Fesenko
5. Ian Mahinmi
6. Krylo Fesenko
7. Marcus Camby
8. Ben Wallace
9. Aaron Gray
10. Jason Collins

[SintonFan]

Actually, no its not stupid. The Mavs roster next year will look nothing like it does this year. They will have a lot of cap room and even more if they amnesty Haywood. I'd amnesty Haywood. Then start over with Dirk, Trix and the young guys already on the roster that have cheap contracts.

Dirk - 20. 9 mill
Matrix - 8.6 mill
Roddy - 2.2 mill
D.Jones - 1.2 mill
B.Wright - 940k
Azibuke - 992k
+1st round pick

I think they will have maybe as many as 8 roster spots open. With a $58-$61,000,000 cap next year that leaves some serious $$ to fill out the roster. I would imagine Cuban will target DWill to start with and if that doesn't work out go after Dragic which would leave even more $ for other good players. The Dwight Howard situation doesn't looked settled yet either. Lot of options belowe are some of the free agents that will be available (not counting some of the mavs FA's). The complete list is at http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/FreeAgents-12-13/nba-free-agents-2012-2013

PG - 1. Deron Williams
2. Goran Dragic
3. Steve Nash
4. George Hill
5. Delonte West
6. Kirk Hinrich
7. Aaron Brooks
8. Jeremy Lin
9. Dj Augustin
10. Patty Mills
11. Jerad Bayless

Sg - 1. Landry Fields
2. Nick Young
3. Mikael Pietrus
4. Deshawn Stevenson
5. Marco Belinelli
6. Jodie Meeks
7. Courtney Lee
8. CJ Miles
9. Shannon Brown
10. Brandon Rush
11. Danny Green
12. Alonzo Gee
13. James Anderson

Sf - 1. Sam Young
2. Chase Budinger
3. Andres Nocioni
4. Donte Greene
5. Matt Barnes
6. Devin Ebanks
7. Dahntay Jones
8. Bill Walker
9. Jamario Moon
10. Rasual Butler
11. Steve Novak
12. Grant Hill

Pf - 1. Carl Landry
2. Jj hickson
3. Mareese Speights
4. Erson Illaysova
5. Jason Thompson
6. Darrell Arthur
7. Reggie Evans
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Chris Wilcox
10. Jerad Jeffries

C - 1. Chris Kaman
2. Spencer Hawes
3. Omer Asik
4. Krylo Fesenko
5. Ian Mahinmi
6. Krylo Fesenko
7. Marcus Camby
8. Ben Wallace
9. Aaron Gray
10. Jason Collins

Leave Danny Green and Mills out of it. They have a bright future with the Spurs. :tisk:

[icu812]

Leave Danny Green and Mills out of it. They have a bright future with the Spurs. :tisk:

I like Green but you can keep Mills. I believe Green is a restricted FA so I would think the Spurs won't let him go. IMO, the Spurs have a great shot at another championship this year.

[SintonFan]

I like Green but you can keep Mills. I believe Green is a restricted FA so I would think the Spurs won't let him go. IMO, the Spurs have a great shot at another championship this year.

Hopefully. I am not talking smack because I think this team is on a mission. How it works out... we shall see. :)

[Emerson1]

Dragic won't be in Rocket uniform next year. It would be Haywood/Mahinmi. Haywood is getting amnestied, so his ass is gone anyways. Mahinmi is at least under 30. Dallas could still trade for Howard next year or there are plenty of competent centers out there. Beaubois has more potential then anyone on the Rockets.

[Saggy Aggie]

Beaubois has more potential then anyone on the Rockets. no. Kyle Lowry is averaging 14 ppg and 6 assists prior to injury while being one of the best defensive PGs in the league and he's only getting better. Beaubois isn't even the best pg in Dallas


Not to mention Lowry was shooting 40% from 3

[coach]

Saggy did you really just say dirk isn't that much better than scola.....are you freaking kidding me? What hell. Dirk is a top 50 player of all time. Call me when scola leads his team to a ship. Hell call me when he leads his team to the playoffs.

[Emerson1]

Let him average at least 20 ppg first.

[Saggy Aggie]

Saggy did you really just say dirk isn't that much better than scola.....are you freaking kidding me? What hell. Dirk is a top 50 player of all time. Call me when scola leads his team to a ship. Hell call me when he leads his team to the playoffs. I'm talking about this season and going forward. The fact that dirk used to average 30 ppg is irrelevant now and for the future.

Dirk averages about 24 & 7 while scola averages about 16 & 7. I expect those numbers for dirk to continue to decline and for scolas to improve.

Dirk averages 8 point something points per game more than scola. Like I said, he's better. But scola is no scrub.

Dirks superstar days are numbered and that's pretty obvious from this playoff series.

[Pick6]

I'm talking about this season and going forward. The fact that dirk used to average 30 ppg is irrelevant now and for the future.

Dirk averages about 24 & 7 while scola averages about 16 & 7. I expect those numbers for dirk to continue to decline and for scolas to improve.

Dirk averages 8 point something points per game more than scola. Like I said, he's better. But scola is no scrub.

Dirks superstar days are numbered and that's pretty obvious from this playoff series.

the point is Dirk was and still is a superstar. Scola never was and never will be. Scola is a good player, but not even close to Dirk. I'd even take Marion over Scola. To compare Scola to Dirk is laughable at best.

[Bullaholic]

I'm talking about this season and going forward. The fact that dirk used to average 30 ppg is irrelevant now and for the future.

Dirk averages about 24 & 7 while scola averages about 16 & 7. I expect those numbers for dirk to continue to decline and for scolas to improve.

Dirk averages 8 point something points per game more than scola. Like I said, he's better. But scola is no scrub.

Dirks superstar days are numbered and that's pretty obvious from this playoff series.


Is that you, Farmersfan? :D

[Saggy Aggie]

the point is Dirk was and still is a superstar. Scola never was and never will be. Scola is a good player, but not even close to Dirk. I'd even take Marion over Scola. To compare Scola to Dirk is laughable at best. LOL Marion over scola? Now I understand. You guys are just delusional

[coach]

Delusional? You are the one trying to compare a first ballot hall of famer to a guy who has never been tongue all star game. You are clueless when talking about basketball. You should stop while you are ahead.

[Saggy Aggie]

Delusional? You are the one trying to compare a first ballot hall of famer to a guy who has never been tongue all star game. You are clueless when talking about basketball. You should stop while you are ahead.


SERIOUSLY? Shawn Marion over Scola? SERIOUSLY?

Shawn Marion?

He averages 6 points less per game and hes old.

I never said Scola was as good as Dirk. Matter of fact, I said Dirk is better. As of now, thats true. But going forward, when Dirk continues to decline like he has, Scola/Dirk will basically be a wash.

Reading Comprehension is your friend, coach. :)

[Emerson1]

LOL Marion over scola? Now I understand. You guys are just delusional
Even though Marion is considered the 8th best defender in the league right now. Which even being that low is a joke.

[coach]

Marion would shut scola down. And no one on the rockets could guard dirk. I don't know why you would think to say Houston is netter than dallas

[Saggy Aggie]

Nice job choking tonight by the mavs. Double digit lead in the 4th?

I'm just sad I won't get to see the mavs get embarrassed any more

[Emerson1]

It's hardly choking when you are down 0-3 and OKC has proved they are better. Tryin to hard son.

[Tejastrue]

Nice job choking tonight by the mavs. Double digit lead in the 4th?

I'm just sad I won't get to see the mavs get embarrassed any more

There was no choking...just a team that has lost it's identity basically overnight. They had no answer for those drives to the basket. The key components were gone. I guarantee Chandler would have put it right back in their face. Durant has vastly matured. They lost to a better team..plain and simple.

[Saggy Aggie]

It's hardly choking when you are down 0-3 and OKC has proved they are better. Tryin to hard son. blowing a 13 point lead in the 4th isn't choking? Okay

[Emerson1]

No. Maybe if it was with a few minutes left. Trying to hard kid. Got 2 keystones in your system?

[Saggy Aggie]

No. Maybe if it was with a few minutes left. Trying to hard kid. Got 2 keystones in your system? haha alright.

I guess blowing a double digit lead in the 4th isn't choking. Silly mavs fans


Oh and at home. Even better. Giving you fans some false hope. Got outscored 35-16 in the 4th

[forum_guy]

im a lakers fan so im not taking sides here but is the mavs getting swept really surprising? No Chandler, Barrea, or Stevenson? What won them the ship last year is basically gone. The season was basically to be a wash anyways to see what Cuban does THIS offseason. We will see.

[icu812]

Choking is a 90% ft shooter missing 4 straight at the end of a close game. Your making yourself look foolish if your going to call losing a 13 point lead to a better, younger, more talented team who the Mavs are already down 0-3 to, with most of a quarter to go "choking". I'm ok with that.......... so flame away Saggy.

[Saggy Aggie]

The mavs got outscored by 19 in the 4th qt.

If you don't wanna call that choking, ok, but what should we call it? A meltdown?

[Emerson1]

No. They were a team that got into the playoffs with 2 games left and going against the team who has the MVP, 6th man of the year and 2nd place in DPOY. You can't really choke when you are the 7th seed that no one picked to win.

Keep trying though.

[Saggy Aggie]

So because you're not favored to win, that means you can't choke? I'm not saying they choked as far as the series goes, just game 4. Regardless if you guys wanna call it choking or not, watching the mavs get owned and blow a giant lead in game 4 just about the time you mavs fans finally started holding out some hope was pretty sweet.

[Emerson1]

I am just glad it isn't to the point where it's so bad that for us to be happy we have to hope another team loses. It's ok though. I knew you had some of that true aggie spirit inside of you.

[Saggy Aggie]

I am just glad it isn't to the point where it's so bad that for us to be happy we have to hope another team loses. It's ok though. I knew you had some of that true aggie spirit inside of you.

Haha I guess you could say that. I think it's because I really don't care what Texas does. It does make me happy to watch the mavs and cowboys lose though.

Maybe it's because I like the texans and Astros way more than I like the Aggies?

[SintonFan]

Can't we all just get behind the Spurs? :D

[coach]

Can't we all just get behind the Spurs? :D

HELL NO. That's even worse.

[defense51]

Can't we all just get behind the Spurs? :D
Since the Mavs are out I'm on board with the Spurs.

[Farmersfan]

Is that you, Farmersfan? :D


It concerns me that you would compare me to this guy! I do make negative statements about beloved players in these parts but they are ALWAYS based on facts. Saggy is making a bunch of claims that are pure hogwash. Scola is so far below Dirk as to not even be in the same hemisphere. I'm pretty sure he is basing his opinions of the Rockets on their work ethic and not their talent. They certainly play hard and give max effort all the time but the Rocket team I watched this season could not even hold the jock strap of even this old and vertically challenged Mavs team. Saggy believes the Rockets have a bright future without any real foundation for that belief. Unless they bring in a superstar to root the rotation they will continue to be a team full of worker bees and no Queen Bee! Dirk has declined some this season from what we saw last season but isn't that to be expected? I think everybody understood this season was going to be a throw away season. Cuban is supposed to have a plan in the off season. The way I look at this discussion is that the Mavs played with old, washed up has-beens with very little inspiration and competitive fire and were still better than a Rockets team that overachieved big time. And if I were a betting man I would put my money on Cuban to field a more competitve team the next 4 or 5 years than the Rockets will have.

[msu97]

its the third game of the first round and houston has yet to touch the floor...
I guess that the Rockets will have to be content with their TWO titles... Mavs have one... so that would make Dallas the 3rd best basketball team in Texas, since the Spurs have what 5, and looks like the could get 6 this year...

[Bullaholic]

It concerns me that you would compare me to this guy! I do make negative statements about beloved players in these parts but they are ALWAYS based on facts. Saggy is making a bunch of claims that are pure hogwash. Scola is so far below Dirk as to not even be in the same hemisphere. I'm pretty sure he is basing his opinions of the Rockets on their work ethic and not their talent. They certainly play hard and give max effort all the time but the Rocket team I watched this season could not even hold the jock strap of even this old and vertically challenged Mavs team. Saggy believes the Rockets have a bright future without any real foundation for that belief. Unless they bring in a superstar to root the rotation they will continue to be a team full of worker bees and no Queen Bee! Dirk has declined some this season from what we saw last season but isn't that to be expected? I think everybody understood this season was going to be a throw away season. Cuban is supposed to have a plan in the off season. The way I look at this discussion is that the Mavs played with old, washed up has-beens with very little inspiration and competitive fire and were still better than a Rockets team that overachieved big time. And if I were a betting man I would put my money on Cuban to field a more competitve team the next 4 or 5 years than the Rockets will have.

Perhaps I do owe you an apology, Farmer---my comparasion only goes as far as both of you expressing your mutual dislike for a player in no uncertain terms.

[Farmersfan]

I guess that the Rockets will have to be content with their TWO titles... Mavs have one... so that would make Dallas the 3rd best basketball team in Texas, since the Spurs have what 5, and looks like the could get 6 this year...



The Spurs were the fortunate franchise that got David Robinson replaced with Tim Duncan! 20 years of having a top 3 NBA center will sometimes produce the kind of championships the Spurs have had. Add in the Tony Parker and Manu trio and it's a small wonder they have had so much success. What would the championship run have been for the Mavs if they had managed to get Tyson Chandler, Dirk and Jason Kidd on the same team, in their prime for a decade? I'm thinking even the 5 rings for the Spurs would not be equal to that. The Rockets on the other hand have done nothing since they haven't been able to put Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon on the court together. It's all about getting combinations together. Once the Spurs lose the trio of Duncan, Parker and Manu their quality run will be over. Without a #1 lottery pick to replace Duncan they are destined to come back to reality land eventually. I just hope Cuban didn't piss his opportunity away by letting Chandler go. If Andrew Luck turns out to be what a lot of people says he will be then isn't what Indy did exactly what the Spurs managed to do at the end of Robinson's career. Any franchise that can replace a player like Robinson with a player like Duncan (or Manning with Luck) has to simply thank their lucky stars and move on. Anyway, the Rockets lost out on their franchise "maker/breaker" when Yao failed to live up to his potential. Good luck finding another!

[msu97]

this all may be true, well the San Antonio part is, but not their fault... the Mavs have well, whatever... it is still Spurs 5, Rockets 2, Mavs 1...
If Yao would have been healthy and McGrady not such a poon the rockets would have.. but wait they didn't so it just doesn't matter...

if Stern does not veto the Barkley trade the 1st time the Rockets have Hakeem, Barkley and Gary Peyton... but it never happened so who cares...
if Stern does not veto the Chris Paul trade the Rockets have Gasol and NeNe, but it never happened so who cares...
sorry Farmer, if and buts....

[Farmersfan]

this all may be true, well the San Antonio part is, but not their fault... the Mavs have well, whatever... it is still Spurs 5, Rockets 2, Mavs 1...
If Yao would have been healthy and McGrady not such a poon the rockets would have.. but wait they didn't so it just doesn't matter...

if Stern does not veto the Barkley trade the 1st time the Rockets have Hakeem, Barkley and Gary Peyton... but it never happened so who cares...
if Stern does not veto the Chris Paul trade the Rockets have Gasol and NeNe, but it never happened so who cares...
sorry Farmer, if and buts....


I agree! Let's talk about what HAPPENED and not what could have happened. The Rockets have done nothing since the Sampson/Olajuwon days. The Spurs are the only NBA franchise in Texas that has managed to put players on the court every year that had a really good chance to win it all. But that is due to the fortuitous bounce of the lottery ball that allowed them to get Duncan to replace a veteran Robinson. Like I said before it would be like the Mavericks having Chandler, Dirk and Kidd together for a decade and then getting the #1 pick and drafting another Dirk with that pick. I don't harbor any unrealistic opinions about the Spur organization being better than any other. They simply got lucky with great players and hired a good coach and the rest is history........................

[SintonFan]

Can't we just all get along????? And support the Spurs? ;)

[msu97]

I think Cuban outsmarted himself and thought that Odom would perform better than Chandler, and since Odom was just 6th man of the year why not take that gamble... hindsight is 20/20... Dirk is getting old, and it is showing... and for Aggy to compare Scola to Dirk was absolutely ridiculous, I know where he was getting, but other than they are both European there is no comparison...
There is no guarantee the Mavs will get Williams... he may take less money to play with Kobe... or Orlando, you never know... Howard off of back surgery there is not telling what could happen, so not sure how much better any team can get, unless the Rockets get lucky with a ping pong ball and get the 1st pick this year... but since Olajuwan, the Rockets have not done that well, outside of picking Horry over Minor and drafting Cassell

[Saggy Aggie]

Scola Is from Argentina, just for the sake of being correct :)

[msu97]

welll then, there is nothing that would be comparable of the two.. was trying to help... but then this proves you are dillusional

[Farmersfan]

I think Cuban outsmarted himself and thought that Odom would perform better than Chandler, and since Odom was just 6th man of the year why not take that gamble... hindsight is 20/20... Dirk is getting old, and it is showing... and for Aggy to compare Scola to Dirk was absolutely ridiculous, I know where he was getting, but other than they are both European there is no comparison...
There is no guarantee the Mavs will get Williams... he may take less money to play with Kobe... or Orlando, you never know... Howard off of back surgery there is not telling what could happen, so not sure how much better any team can get, unless the Rockets get lucky with a ping pong ball and get the 1st pick this year... but since Olajuwan, the Rockets have not done that well, outside of picking Horry over Minor and drafting Cassell


Cuban certainly has outsmarted himself a number of times over the years trying to get players that will help. He has had some success but far too often he has failed terribly. Did everyone see where the Mavericks players voted to exclude Odom from getting any of the playoff money? I'm wondering what kind of "Woe is Me" story Lamar will be telling the media over this? I also saw Stephen A. Smith mouthing off about it on Sportscenter but since I was eating lunch in chili's I did not hear what he said. But I could certainly imagine. anyone hear his comments?

[Saggy Aggie]

Except I never said scola is as good. I did, however, say dirk is better. I ALSO said in the future as dirk continues to decline and scola improves, it will be a wash at the PF position.

You guys aren't too good at reading.

[Emerson1]

Cuban certainly has outsmarted himself a number of times over the years trying to get players that will help. He has had some success but far too often he has failed terribly. Did everyone see where the Mavericks players voted to exclude Odom from getting any of the playoff money? I'm wondering what kind of "Woe is Me" story Lamar will be telling the media over this? I also saw Stephen A. Smith mouthing off about it on Sportscenter but since I was eating lunch in chili's I did not hear what he said. But I could certainly imagine. anyone hear his comments?
http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7899634/2012-nba-playoffs-dallas-mavericks-exclude-lamar-odom-share-playoff-money-source-says

[Emerson1]

I think Cuban outsmarted himself and thought that Odom would perform better than Chandler, and since Odom was just 6th man of the year why not take that gamble... hindsight is 20/20... Dirk is getting old, and it is showing... and for Aggy to compare Scola to Dirk was absolutely ridiculous, I know where he was getting, but other than they are both European there is no comparison...
There is no guarantee the Mavs will get Williams... he may take less money to play with Kobe... or Orlando, you never know... Howard off of back surgery there is not telling what could happen, so not sure how much better any team can get, unless the Rockets get lucky with a ping pong ball and get the 1st pick this year... but since Olajuwan, the Rockets have not done that well, outside of picking Horry over Minor and drafting Cassell
Huh? Odom was never a replacement for Chandler. Chandler is a defensive center. Odom is a ball handling forward.

Williams can't just decide to take less money and play for the Lakers and Magic unless he sign for the MLE, which is under $6 million.

[coach]

Except I never said scola is as good. I did, however, say dirk is better. I ALSO said in the future as dirk continues to decline and scola improves, it will be a wash at the PF position.

You guys aren't too good at reading.

By the time dirk has declined that much scola will be out of the league.

[Farmersfan]

Except I never said scola is as good. I did, however, say dirk is better. I ALSO said in the future as dirk continues to decline and scola improves, it will be a wash at the PF position.

You guys aren't too good at reading.



Apparently you aren't aware that Scola is only 2 years younger than Dirk! So if Dirk is on the decline then how much "improvement" can you intelligently expect from Scola? Wouldn't he also be on the decline pretty quick here. And he has way, way less of a level to decline from........................

[Txbroadcaster]

I think Cuban outsmarted himself and thought that Odom would perform better than Chandler, and since Odom was just 6th man of the year why not take that gamble... hindsight is 20/20... Dirk is getting old, and it is showing... and for Aggy to compare Scola to Dirk was absolutely ridiculous, I know where he was getting, but other than they are both European there is no comparison...
There is no guarantee the Mavs will get Williams... he may take less money to play with Kobe... or Orlando, you never know... Howard off of back surgery there is not telling what could happen, so not sure how much better any team can get, unless the Rockets get lucky with a ping pong ball and get the 1st pick this year... but since Olajuwan, the Rockets have not done that well, outside of picking Horry over Minor and drafting Cassell


Odom was never brought in to replace Tyson, It was two different situations that were not related...Odom fell into the Mavs lap when he demanded a trade

[Saggy Aggie]

Apparently you aren't aware that Scola is only 2 years younger than Dirk! So if Dirk is on the decline then how much "improvement" can you intelligently expect from Scola? Wouldn't he also be on the decline pretty quick here. And he has way, way less of a level to decline from........................ scola averaged 18 and 8 last year and 16 and 7 in this shortened year. With a full offseason, I think scola will go for about 19-20ppg next year and I think dirk will be marginally better than that. We shall see

[Farmersfan]

scola averaged 18 and 8 last year and 16 and 7 in this shortened year. With a full offseason, I think scola will go for about 19-20ppg next year and I think dirk will be marginally better than that. We shall see


So your whole argument is based on Dirk declining? You claim the Rocket's future is brighter than the Mavs because Dirk will DECLINE enough to be just "marginally better" than the best player on the Rockets team? You are seriously delusional! I'm not real sure what criteria you are using to claim Dirk will decline while a 2 year younger Scola will improve but between these two players it was Scola who declined the most this past season and not Dirk. And even if Dirk's numbers decline significantly enough for Scola to catch him Dirk will still be a much more important part of the team simply from the standpoint that Dirk demands attention from the outside and will draw the other teams best defender away from the basket. This past season Dirk made 234 points from behind the 3pt line while Scola made ZERO. Some might claim that means Dirk doesn't drive the ball into the defense but Dirk shot 318 free throws while Scola shot 153. No! These 2 players are on completely different levels..................

[BEAST]

So your whole argument is based on Dirk declining? You claim the Rocket's future is brighter than the Mavs because Dirk will DECLINE enough to be just "marginally better" than the best player on the Rockets team? You are seriously delusional! I'm not real sure what criteria you are using to claim Dirk will decline while a 2 year younger Scola will improve but between these two players it was Scola who declined the most this past season and not Dirk. And even if Dirk's numbers decline significantly enough for Scola to catch him Dirk will still be a much more important part of the team simply from the standpoint that Dirk demands attention from the outside and will draw the other teams best defender away from the basket. This past season Dirk made 234 points from behind the 3pt line while Scola made ZERO. Some might claim that means Dirk doesn't drive the ball into the defense but Dirk shot 318 free throws while Scola shot 153. No! These 2 players are on completely different levels..................


OUCH!! Those numbers sure paint a picture.




BEAST

[regaleagle]

Good stats there FF. I love it when you can make an argument that is supported by common sense, numbers, facts, and figures. :vrycnfsd:

[Saggy Aggie]

So your whole argument is based on Dirk declining? You claim the Rocket's future is brighter than the Mavs because Dirk will DECLINE enough to be just "marginally better" than the best player on the Rockets team? You are seriously delusional! I'm not real sure what criteria you are using to claim Dirk will decline while a 2 year younger Scola will improve but between these two players it was Scola who declined the most this past season and not Dirk. And even if Dirk's numbers decline significantly enough for Scola to catch him Dirk will still be a much more important part of the team simply from the standpoint that Dirk demands attention from the outside and will draw the other teams best defender away from the basket. This past season Dirk made 234 points from behind the 3pt line while Scola made ZERO. Some might claim that means Dirk doesn't drive the ball into the defense but Dirk shot 318 free throws while Scola shot 153. No! These 2 players are on completely different levels..................

Dirk wasnt having to learn a new offense. Every season prior to this season, Scolas #s improved. New offense and no training camp and less practice = less #s. If scola had the benefit of playing in the a system he was familiar with (like dirk), then im sure his #s would have been more to your liking. I fully expect him to regain his form next season. To compare a jump shooter's 3pt numbers versus a posts is just asinine btw.

And no, my argument is not solely based on dirk declining, I think the Rockets future is bright because aside from whatever Dirk does, Scola will be at least an 18/8 player next year, they have one of the best PGs in the league in Lowry (14 & 8) while being one of the best defending pgs in the league. Chandler Parsons nearly won rookie of the year and is probably the rockets best defender, consistently getting matched up against Kobe, Lebron, etc and doing very well.

The Rockets also have Kevin Martin (a career 18.4 ppg player).

Aside from all that, their bench was pretty stout and the rockets have as much cap room flexibility as anyone.

So THAT is why i think their future is bright.

[Emerson1]

Eh it's all pointless until after FA.

[coach]

Watch out Miami heat we have Kevin Martin!

[Saggy Aggie]

Watch out Miami heat we have Kevin Martin!

I guess you think you're funny, but a career 18.4 ppg player is pretty solid to me, with 6 different seasons averaging over 20 ppg, including 1 where he averaged 25 ppg.


Kevin Martin is better than every player on the Mavs except Dirk. :)

[coach]

I guess you think you're funny, but a career 18.4 ppg player is pretty solid to me, with 6 different seasons averaging over 20 ppg, including 1 where he averaged 25 ppg.


Kevin Martin is better than every player on the Mavs except Dirk. :)

Jason Eugene terry > kevin Martin


Before you make another stupid comment just wait until he makes a clutch shot or scores willingly against Lebrun James 4 games in a row.

[Saggy Aggie]

Jason Eugene terry > kevin Martin


Before you make another stupid comment just wait until he makes a clutch shot or scores willingly against Lebrun James 4 games in a row. Jason terry's best season of his career he averaged 19.7

Kevin martin has SIX seasons of at least 20 PPG, a few of them significantly more than that. Kevin Martin is a a better scorer and defender than Terry.

Yeah, i can see how Terry is better though.

[coach]

Jason terry's best season of his career he averaged 19.7

Kevin martin has SIX seasons of at least 20 PPG, a few of them significantly more than that. Kevin Martin is a a better scorer and defender than Terry.

Yeah, i can see how Terry is better though.

Kmart averages more and he plays way more minutes. He is their best player. Terry doesn't even start. Like I said call me when Houston makes th playoffs.

[msu97]

then call me when Dallas has 2 championships... and none of us are allowed to talk to Spurs fans... since they rule Texas

[Saggy Aggie]

Kmart averages more and he plays way more minutes. He is their best player. Terry doesn't even start. Like I said call me when Houston makes th playoffs. LOL, here's where i ruin your argument. KMART averages 31 minutes per game career. Jason Terry averages 33.5. Terry averages more minutes and scores less.

Terry doesnt start, but he is your 2nd best player. You cant make the argument that because he doesnt start that somehow makes a difference. HE PLAYS MORE MINUTES THAN KMART. The fact is, he has never even sniffed Kmarts best seasons.


Kmart is one of many very solid rockets players. We have 4 guys averaging double figures in points, 2 of them being very young and 2 of them being in their prime with very solid role players behind them. Houston will be in the playoffs next year.

[Emerson1]

then call me when Dallas has 2 championships... and none of us are allowed to talk to Spurs fans... since they rule Texas

That's what people say when their team sucks and has sucked for years.

[coach]

LOL, here's where i ruin your argument. KMART averages 31 minutes per game career. Jason Terry averages 33.5. Terry averages more minutes and scores less.

Terry doesnt start, but he is your 2nd best player. You cant make the argument that because he doesnt start that somehow makes a difference. HE PLAYS MORE MINUTES THAN KMART. The fact is, he has never even sniffed Kmarts best seasons.


Kmart is one of many very solid rockets players. We have 4 guys averaging double figures in points, 2 of them being very young and 2 of them being in their prime with very solid role players behind them. Houston will be in the playoffs next year.


If y'all are so great then why do the rockets continue to be worse than the mavs???

[msu97]

That's what people say when their team sucks and has sucked for years.

remember that when Dallas sucks in a few... I mean right now Dallas has two good teams, teh Mavs and the Rangers... enjoy it... their down time will come...
and yes, Houston is not very good... but I can take it...1) I really do not like the NBA, the game itself sucks 2) I root for Houston only for the fact that they are in Houston and I live right here, but have always liked the Spurs...
Dallas, well, they are Dallas, I always thought Houston had the envy problem but after reading some of the posts here, not so much anymore...
and well right now, Dallas still has one, Houston has two, greatest Rocket is better than Greatest Mav, and well, San Antonio is still better than both...

[Emerson1]

Using your logic the Cowboys are better then the Giants right now because they have more rings that they got in the 90s.

I don't think anyone in the world envies Houston about anything.

[msu97]

Using your logic the Cowboys are better then the Giants right now because they have more rings that they got in the 90s.

I don't think anyone in the world envies Houston about anything.
not exactly what I said but whatever works for you I guess... so you are saying that houston and or dallas is better than San Antonio, that is not what I am saying but again, whatever floats your boat
Houston is a better city than most... is it desirable, prolly not, but it does have it sports teams... which are pretty good... even the Stros are at least watchable...

[coach]

not exactly what I said but whatever works for you I guess... so you are saying that houston and or dallas is better than San Antonio, that is not what I am saying but again, whatever floats your boat
Houston is a better city than most... is it desirable, prolly not, but it does have it sports teams... which are pretty good... even the Stros are at least watchable...

whoa whoa whoa....the stros are the last possible thing to watchable... yeah the last few games they have playde halfway decent, but they have been the laughing stock of the mlb the last two years

[msu97]

whoa whoa whoa....the stros are the last possible thing to watchable... yeah the last few games they have playde halfway decent, but they have been the laughing stock of the mlb the last two years
then here you are showing your ignorance... they are a lot better this year and that is evident, I mean, we know the Rangers are FINALLY good, so that means that they have ALWAYS been good by dallas fans measures, we get it...
the Astros were abysmal last year, but they are not the laughing stock of mlb for the past two years...
and if SIngleton turns out okay, that is a big IF, they are one or two years away from being in the mix, not saying playoffs, just in the mix, especially since they are leaving one weak division and going to another...

[coach]

then here you are showing your ignorance... they are a lot better this year and that is evident, I mean, we know the Rangers are FINALLY good, so that means that they have ALWAYS been good by dallas fans measures, we get it...
the Astros were abysmal last year, but they are not the laughing stock of mlb for the past two years...
and if SIngleton turns out okay, that is a big IF, they are one or two years away from being in the mix, not saying playoffs, just in the mix, especially since they are leaving one weak division and going to another...

Eh...they might finish 4th in their division this year

[Farmersfan]

Jason terry's best season of his career he averaged 19.7

Kevin martin has SIX seasons of at least 20 PPG, a few of them significantly more than that. Kevin Martin is a a better scorer and defender than Terry.

Yeah, i can see how Terry is better though.


Jason Terry has been to the playoffs 9 years out of his 12 year career and averaged 17 pts a game in the playoffs with 1 Championship. Kevin Martin has been in the playoffs 1 time in 7 years and averaged 13 pts. Kevin Martin is a good player. But there is a difference in a good player and an elite player. Jason Terry gets his points while making those around him better. Martin just gets his points!!!!

Jason Terry career recognition:

NBA Champion (2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2009)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2000)
NCAA Champion (1997)
Pac-10 Player of the Year (1999)
Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1999)

Kevin Martin career recognition:

Oscar Robertson Triple Double Award (2008)

[toddg]

LOL, here's where i ruin your argument. KMART averages 31 minutes per game career. Jason Terry averages 33.5. Terry averages more minutes and scores less.

Terry doesnt start, but he is your 2nd best player. You cant make the argument that because he doesnt start that somehow makes a difference. HE PLAYS MORE MINUTES THAN KMART. The fact is, he has never even sniffed Kmarts best seasons.


Kmart is one of many very solid rockets players. We have 4 guys averaging double figures in points, 2 of them being very young and 2 of them being in their prime with very solid role players behind them. Houston will be in the playoffs next year.

KMART was a slot/third wr for the early 90s Dallas Cowboys SB champ teams..he has 3 rings!

[Saggy Aggie]

Jason Terry has been to the playoffs 9 years out of his 12 year career and averaged 17 pts a game in the playoffs with 1 Championship. Kevin Martin has been in the playoffs 1 time in 7 years and averaged 13 pts. Kevin Martin is a good player. But there is a difference in a good player and an elite player. Jason Terry gets his points while making those around him better. Martin just gets his points!!!!

Jason Terry career recognition:

NBA Champion (2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2009)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2000)
NCAA Champion (1997)
Pac-10 Player of the Year (1999)
Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1999)

Kevin Martin career recognition:

Oscar Robertson Triple Double Award (2008) playing for sacremento for all those years and being the only de3cent person on that team might have something to do with the fact that he hasnt put up the playoff numbers youre looking for.


what do awards have to do with his NBA career?

He was a champ because he a good player on a great team. Sixth man of the year because he doesnt start. Hell if KMART sat out the first 2 minutes of every game and then came in and played the rest of the game like Terry then he'd have 6th man awards too. that makes no sense.

Lets go back to factual statistics. 6 times averaging more than 20 ppg. jason terry = 0.

[Farmersfan]

playing for sacremento for all those years and being the only de3cent person on that team might have something to do with the fact that he hasnt put up the playoff numbers youre looking for.


what do awards have to do with his NBA career?

He was a champ because he a good player on a great team. Sixth man of the year because he doesnt start. Hell if KMART sat out the first 2 minutes of every game and then came in and played the rest of the game like Terry then he'd have 6th man awards too. that makes no sense.

Lets go back to factual statistics. 6 times averaging more than 20 ppg. jason terry = 0.


I guess I can't argue with logic that dismisses a lifetime of recognition and awards. Jason Terry didn't average as many points in college as Kevin Martin did yet he earned recognition and awards while Martin didn't. Points are only a very small part of what makes a player elite. Perhaps Kevin Martin will get there! But as of this moment he isn't even close..................... And if you are basing your hope for the Rockets future on Kevin Martin then you might want to brace yourself because you are going to be disappointed.

[coach]

playing for sacremento for all those years and being the only de3cent person on that team might have something to do with the fact that he hasnt put up the playoff numbers youre looking for.


what do awards have to do with his NBA career?

He was a champ because he a good player on a great team. Sixth man of the year because he doesnt start. Hell if KMART sat out the first 2 minutes of every game and then came in and played the rest of the game like Terry then he'd have 6th man awards too. that makes no sense.

Lets go back to factual statistics. 6 times averaging more than 20 ppg. jason terry = 0.

you are comparing one stat and thats it.....


the actual facts is the jet is an all around better player. hell i bet 90% of this board doesnt know who kevin martin is and 90% know who the jet is...

[coach]

I have a sweet picture with the jet when i met him at the bahamas but i dont know how to post a pic...

[Farmersfan]

I have a sweet picture with the jet when i met him at the bahamas but i dont know how to post a pic...


Did you help him with his tanning lotion??????

[Saggy Aggie]

you are comparing one stat and thats it.....


the actual facts is the jet is an all around better player. hell i bet 90% of this board doesnt know who kevin martin is and 90% know who the jet is... what facts make terry a better player?

Kmart isn't a big name guy because he played for Sacramento for the majority of his career. Nothing statistical any of you have provided suggests in any way that terry is a better individual player.

All I've seen is he's been a champ, mainly because who he plays for. Hell, luke Walton has won a couple titles. Does that make him better? If you want recognition, it's about WHO you play for, not what you do.

The best comparison is stats. Show me a stat that says terry is better. I can show you several that say otherwise.

[Emerson1]

I have a sweet picture with the jet when i met him at the bahamas but i dont know how to post a pic...
How the hell do you not know how to post a pic after 6 years being here?

[coach]

what facts make terry a better player?

Kmart isn't a big name guy because he played for Sacramento for the majority of his career. Nothing statistical any of you have provided suggests in any way that terry is a better individual player.

All I've seen is he's been a champ, mainly because who he plays for. Hell, luke Walton has won a couple titles. Does that make him better? If you want recognition, it's about WHO you play for, not what you do.

The best comparison is stats. Show me a stat that says terry is better. I can show you several that say otherwise.


ok you take kmart and ill take the jet and we will see which team is better......jet is the second best player on a team that has been to the playoffs 12 straight years.....kmart, well.......thats just what he is. he is a kmart...a crappy store that no one goes to anymore

[coach]

How the hell do you not know how to post a pic after 6 years being here?

yea...i know thats pretty bad

[Farmersfan]

what facts make terry a better player?

Kmart isn't a big name guy because he played for Sacramento for the majority of his career. Nothing statistical any of you have provided suggests in any way that terry is a better individual player.

All I've seen is he's been a champ, mainly because who he plays for. Hell, luke Walton has won a couple titles. Does that make him better? If you want recognition, it's about WHO you play for, not what you do.

The best comparison is stats. Show me a stat that says terry is better. I can show you several that say otherwise.


What stats are you talking about Aggie? K. Martin averages just 2 points a game more than J. Terry and JET has played 5 more years. Only a moron would think K. Martin will be playing at JET's level after 12 years. All the other stats are almost identical with K. Martin slightly ahead on some and J. Terry ahead on others. Both players make basically the same amount of money. Kevin Martin will have more value right now than Jason does because Jason is about 50 years old. But Kevin Martin is way, way more fragile than Jet Terry is. Over a 12 year career Terry averages playing in 79 games a season. K. Martin plays in 47 games a season on average. Only once in 12 seasons has JET played fewer than 75 games in a season. Only twice did K. Martin manage to make it 75 games............. (and that was just barely).


...........................PPG APG RPG FT% 3PT% SPG
Jason Terry............16 4.7 2.7 .84 .38 1.3
K. Martin ............... 18 2.1 3.5 .86 .37 .9

Need cold hard evidence?

NBA Champion (2011)
NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2009)
NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2000)
NCAA Champion (1997)
Pac-10 Player of the Year (1999)
Consensus NCAA All-American First Team (1999)

[Saggy Aggie]

Kmart - 6 seasons of 20+ ppg....

Terry - 0


Martin had a bad year according to his standards and still averaged 2 ppg more than terry. Lol

[Farmersfan]

Kmart - 6 seasons of 20+ ppg....

Terry - 0


Martin had a bad year according to his standards and still averaged 2 ppg more than terry. Lol



If that is your only stat then at least get it right!!! K. Martin has had a 20+ point season 5 times, not 6. He has also had a 3 PPG average season and a 11 PPG season. This is why his career AVERAGE isn't much better than Terry's. Jason Terry has been way, way more consistent over a much longer period of time. K. Martin will be about half as effective in a few years and will start putting up 12 point season averages and JET will overtake him on career averages. You can take that to the bank.....................

[icu812]

I guess you think you're funny, but a career 18.4 ppg player is pretty solid to me, with 6 different seasons averaging over 20 ppg, including 1 where he averaged 25 ppg.


Kevin Martin is better than every player on the Mavs except Dirk. :)

Martin basically is Terry. His scoring #'s are a little better because he has been the #1 option most of his career. Both are primarily jump shooters and play avg defense at best. Unless Martin can stay healthy Terry will have had the better career. Martin is probably a better scorer but Terry is durable and that is huge. If either is the #1 scorer on a team that isn't a good thing. Both are a liability on D. There are other guys that are better all around players at shooting guard.

To your point that Houston has a brighter future than the Mavs. That is unknowable until after free agency.

[Saggy Aggie]

If that is your only stat then at least get it right!!! K. Martin has had a 20+ point season 5 times, not 6. He has also had a 3 PPG average season and a 11 PPG season. This is why his career AVERAGE isn't much better than Terry's. Jason Terry has been way, way more consistent over a much longer period of time. K. Martin will be about half as effective in a few years and will start putting up 12 point season averages and JET will overtake him on career averages. You can take that to the bank..................... LOL you're really gonna use his rookie year stats as a comparison?

And sorry 19.8 ppg was close enough for m, still better than any year of Terry's career haha

[Pick6]

Jason terry's best season of his career he averaged 19.7

Kevin martin has SIX seasons of at least 20 PPG, a few of them significantly more than that. Kevin Martin is a a better scorer and defender than Terry.

Yeah, i can see how Terry is better though.

Do you really think Kmart would avg 20+ points if he was playing 2nd fiddle to Dirk?? Kmart would average less than what JET averages on one of JET's bad years.

[Farmersfan]

LOL you're really gonna use his rookie year stats as a comparison?

And sorry 19.8 ppg was close enough for m, still better than any year of Terry's career haha


Is 19.7, 19.6 and 19.3 close enough then? Or is it only close enough when it helps your argument? I'm not sure what you are talking about with that other stuff. K. Martin averaged over 20 ppg in 06'-07', 07'-08', 08'-09', 09'-10', and 10'-11'. that is 5 seasons. Be advised that in 09 he has a average for half a season in Sac (19.8), half a season in Houston(21.3) and then the overall 09'-10' season. (20.6) Don't count those twice!