THE BEST football program in Texas HS football history

[toddg]

Hands down is Southlake Carroll...8 state championships, and poised to win #9 in 2012..78% overall winning percentage in their history.

I never would have thought about it growing up there in the 70s..and playing in cow pastures where now is the town square. i lived there 1970-79....in the summer of 1979 i was visiting my uncle in Port Arthur, he lived near a high school..so bored, i would venture over there and watch the hs team during their two-a-days practices, sometimes get to help shag balls and pass out water, and during one of those water breaks got in a conversation with one of the QBs..when he figured out i wasnt from around there he asked where i was from.. i said Southlake..he said he never heard of it..the QB was Todd Dodge.

[regaleagle]

Great story, toddg. I wonder if his new team in Central Texas will be playing for all the marbles sometime soon. That town was pretty small back in the early 70's too! And I remember when I was in college, one summer I was offered a sales job to help with the real estate sales of a new development called Horseshoe Bay. The agent drove my brother and I out to Marble Falls, a long trip from Austin it seemed at the time, to a huge emptiness along the lake and told us we would be wealthy in 5 yrs. Being only 20 at the time, I didn't like the idea of being stuck out in some remote wilderness, and thought this guy was wishing on a star.

[defense51]

How many different coaches have won a state championship at SLC?

[Bullaholic]

I have always equated SLC with consistent excellence. Same for Highland Park. Both may be considered to be in "blue blood" districts, but they do achieve excellence in athletics and academics year after year.

[toddg]

How many different coaches have won a state championship at SLC?

3.. ledbetter, dodge, and wasson.

[bobcat1]

Don't forget Celina. We've got 8 too.

[coach]

And brownwood is still looking for #8

[SintonFan_inAustin]

San Antonio Converse Judson, 12 state championship games and coming away with 6 state titles.

[bobcat1]

And brownwood is still looking for #8Who knows? They may break that 41 year drought. After all it did rain again in Texas after last summer. Stranger things have happened you know.:devil:

[defense51]

Bobcat1 or any other Celina posters, how many coaches have won a SC at Celina? I'm not sure what's more impressive to me, a program like Brownwood that has 7 titles with one coach and in a time period where one district loss might keep you out of the playoffs or a program lile SLC with 8 titles under three coaches in a twenty five year span through three different classifications. Then you have Celina with 7.5 or 8 depending who you ask, who has a small enrollment but excels year after year with less depth than the other programs mentioned.

[RoyceTTU]

I think SLC was actually awarded the National HS chapions a few years running also.
Only other program I could think of is Permian. Sure they don't have as many titles, but what other High School can you leave the state of Texas and even the non-sports fans know who that HS is. Something to be said.

[Lion70]

Odessa Permian 6 State Tiles school created in 1959! My adopted team.

[BEAST]

And brownwood is still looking for #8

7.5!! A class B tie.




BEAST

[garciap77]

Don't forget Celina. We've got 8 too.


:thumbsup:


Celina is way better then SLC!!!!!!!!!!

[garciap77]

And brownwood is still looking for #8

Is Fairfield even looking??????

[BILLYFRED0000]

I will say Celina. And for a couple of good reasons other than our 68 game winning streak and 25 straight playoff victories. You can go back the last 50 years. We are the only school in the state that appears in the top ten all fifty years and decade by decade and usually the top 5 with a few number ones in either wins or winning percentage. We have 7 undefeated seasons. And as far as the titles go. the rules of state titles say it is a cotitle. We have several regional championships before they allowed class b state competition as well as our 8 titles. The only kids in that league would have to be southlake. The wood was good in its day but they are coming back after a pretty long drought. Permian the same. Judson converse has not been around that long but are great. I lived in converse for a while in the air force and those boys were always pretty good.

[bobcat1]

7.5!! A class B tie.




BEASTI think there are 8 Championship trophies and quite a few are from this century. Irregardless 7.5>7 and I might add ours were won after the invention of face masks.:D:taunt:

[bobcat1]

Bobcat1 or any other Celina posters, how many coaches have won a SC at Celina? I'm not sure what's more impressive to me, a program like Brownwood that has 7 titles with one coach and in a time period where one district loss might keep you out of the playoffs or a program lile SLC with 8 titles under three coaches in a twenty five year span through three different classifications. Then you have Celina with 7.5 or 8 depending who you ask, who has a small enrollment but excels year after year with less depth than the other programs mentioned.2 Coaches GA Moore Jr and Butch Ford

[WildTexan972]

2 Coaches GA Moore Jr and Butch Ford

GA was not coaching the team in the 70s was he?

[bobcat1]

GA was not coaching the team in the 70s was he? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._A._Moore

[Rabid Cougar]

Mart Panthers since 1912

[sweetwater07]

Nobody has mentioned Abilene yet? I know back in the day they were a huge powerhouse in Texas

[defense51]

Marathon and Cherokee in six man have a boatload of championships.

[Ernest T Bass]

I know it's a no-no around here to mention class differences, but the competition in 5a is much more than in any other classification. SLC's run in 5a is mind-boggling.

[sweetwater07]

I know it's a no-no around here to mention class differences, but the competition in 5a is much more than in any other classification. SLC's run in 5a is mind-boggling.

thats a pretty well to-do area, I'm sure their more than sufficient funds for the football program has a lot to do with their success.

[defense51]

I know it's a no-no around here to mention class differences, but the competition in 5a is much more than in any other classification. SLC's run in 5a is mind-boggling.
It's not uncommon to see a larger school drop down a classification and be competitive, but to move up from 4A to 5A and be dominant in such a short period of time is tremendous.

[Tejastrue]

It's not uncommon to see a larger school drop down a classification and be competitive, but to move up from 4A to 5A and be dominant in such a short period of time is tremendous.


Will be interesting to see how Lake Travis will hold up...

[Rabid Cougar]

I know it's a no-no around here to mention class differences, but the competition in 5a is much more than in any other classification. SLC's run in 5a is mind-boggling.

Three of SLC's are 3 A State Championships ......So they are no better than Midland Lee.

[Ernest T Bass]

@Sweetwater07: Overacheiving parents tend to have overacheiving kids. But otherwise, they don't have anything that other area football programs don't have.
@defense51: They won their first 5a SC in their very first year in 5a, and went back to the finals the next year.
@RabidCougar: They went to the state championship game 6 years in a row their first 6 years in 5a, winning 4 of them and then won another this year. Midland Lee had one outstanding player and a few really good ones to go with him. Once he was gone, the dominance ended.

[NastySlot]

I was always impressed with the Plano Wildcats growing up multiple titles in multiple classes.

anyone old enough to remember the the runs made by Plano and Wylie (AHMO) in the late 70's?

[Rabid Cougar]

[QUOTE=Ernest T Bass;1672008@RabidCougar: They went to the state championship game 6 years in a row their first 6 years in 5a, winning 4 of them and then won another this year. Midland Lee had one outstanding player and a few really good ones to go with him. Once he was gone, the dominance ended.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. That and a particularly gifted class tends to be a catalysts for extended runs. SLC didn't win at 4 A level which is curious. Abilene Wylie, Argyle and Ponder have that same "over achieving" (also known as money) aspect too; as does Lake Travis; which took Westlake's place. There is a common thread here. It is no different than University of Texas vs Universtiy of North Texas athletic budgets..... money wins....

[Old Tiger]

I know it's a no-no around here to mention class differences, but the competition in 5a is much more than in any other classification. SLC's run in 5a is mind-boggling.Lake Travis run in 4a is more mind boggling. 1st team to win 5 straight and very well could make it 6 in 5a-dII

[Ernest T Bass]

Agreed. That and a particularly gifted class tends to be a catalysts for extended runs. SLC didn't win at 4 A level which is curious. Abilene Wylie, Argyle and Ponder have that same "over achieving" (also known as money) aspect too; as does Lake Travis; which took Westlake's place. There is a common thread here. It is no different than University of Texas vs Universtiy of North Texas athletic budgets..... money wins....

You obviously know not of what you speak, nor did you read my response very carefully. It has nothing to do with athletic budgets. Southlake doesn't have anything that money can buy that other area programs don't have. In fact, their facilities aren't exactly impressive. I can think of a few other schools in the immediate area that have nicer facilities. But, the overachieving factor I'm sure does have a lot of to do with the kids, themselves.
As for their stint in 4a, they were 4a during a period when 4a was probably the most competitive class. Although they did make 2 trips to semifinals during their time there.

[ctown81]

You obviously know not of what you speak, nor did you read my response very carefully. It has nothing to do with athletic budgets. Southlake doesn't have anything that money can buy that other area programs don't have. In fact, their facilities aren't exactly impressive. I can think of a few other schools in the immediate area that have nicer facilities. But, the overachieving factor I'm sure does have a lot of to do with the kids, themselves.
As for their stint in 4a, they were 4a during a period when 4a was probably the most competitive class. Although they did make 2 trips to semifinals during their time there.

Can't speak on SLC's facilities but I can say that the parent's buy the best trainers money can buy in the offseason which helps a lot.

[Rabid Cougar]

I also think that the new multi division classifications has something to do with it too.

[ctown81]

Lake Travis run in 4a is more mind boggling. 1st team to win 5 straight and very well could make it 6 in 5a-dII

Proportionally all classes are just as competitive. 5A is no more difficult as the other classes as far as competition goes.

[Ernest T Bass]

Proportionally all classes are just as competitive. 5A is no more difficult as the other classes as far as competition goes.

I disagree with this completely. 5a D1 is by far the toughest division in Texas. There's a small handfull of teams that completely dominate. Same goes for 4a D1. However, there's not a whole lot of difference between 5A D2 and 4a D1 right now. There have been many team who win or play for the 5A D2 state championship their first year in 5a. 4a and 5a D2 are both wide open. Same goes with 4a D2 and 3A D1. The 3a D1 state champion a lot of times would have a shot at winning the 4A D2 title. After that, there's quite a bit of disparity between the divisions and classes.

[Old&Crusty]

I disagree with this completely. 5a D1 is by far the toughest division in Texas. There's a small handfull of teams that completely dominate. Same goes for 4a D1. However, there's not a whole lot of difference between 5A D2 and 4a D1 right now. There have been many team who win or play for the 5A D2 state championship their first year in 5a. 4a and 5a D2 are both wide open. Same goes with 4a D2 and 3A D1. The 3a D1 state champion a lot of times would have a shot at winning the 4A D2 title. After that, there's quite a bit of disparity between the divisions and classes.

Division I or division II don't mean a thing. Often the Div II school is bigger.

And in my humble opinion, 4A teams generally are the best in Texas.

[ctown81]

I disagree with this completely. 5a D1 is by far the toughest division in Texas. There's a small handfull of teams that completely dominate. Same goes for 4a D1. However, there's not a whole lot of difference between 5A D2 and 4a D1 right now. There have been many team who win or play for the 5A D2 state championship their first year in 5a. 4a and 5a D2 are both wide open. Same goes with 4a D2 and 3A D1. The 3a D1 state champion a lot of times would have a shot at winning the 4A D2 title. After that, there's quite a bit of disparity between the divisions and classes.

In the past 4 season, 3A division 1 has been the weakest of the two and the 3A division II team would have a much better chance, with CH being the exception. When you talk about the best football program, regular season is considered and divisions do not come into play until playoffs. Especially in the dfw all the top teams face each other once a year.

[Rabid Cougar]

You obviously know not of what you speak, nor did you read my response very carefully. It has nothing to do with athletic budgets. Southlake doesn't have anything that money can buy that other area programs don't have. In fact, their facilities aren't exactly impressive. I can think of a few other schools in the immediate area that have nicer facilities. But, the overachieving factor I'm sure does have a lot of to do with the kids, themselves.
As for their stint in 4a, they were 4a during a period when 4a was probably the most competitive class. Although they did make 2 trips to semifinals during their time there.

I KNOW SLC set the gold standard in facilites by which all other programs in Texas are measured by. Sure they have been surpassed as more communities utilize their affluence.

I call you on your remark about "overachieving". What does that mean? A pretentious word for "rich"? Lots of schools have real over achieving kids and parents. They just don't have the unlimited funds to provide the best private training /coaching that MONEY can buy. There are some awesome athletes at SLC I am sure. Go put them in a DISD or a HISD intercity school without their parents money and see how many SCs they win then.

Outside resources make a huge difference. I use Waco ISD vs Midway ISD as an example.

SLC hasn't reached that critical point in a school district's history that forces the creation of a New High School that will break up the talent as happened in Plano and other power house programs of the past.

[Lion70]

In the past 4 season, 3A division 1 has been the weakest of the two and the 3A division II team would have a much better chance, with CH being the exception. When you talk about the best football program, regular season is considered and divisions do not come into play until playoffs. Especially in the dfw all the top teams face each other once a year.


Clueless post of the Year award. You realize Henderson beat Chapel hill right. Gilmer gave Carthage a pretty good fight in 2009. Gilmer put 70 on kilgore which yall didn't beat as bad and henderson beat them as well. Plus Nac put 60 on yall Really.

[Rabid Cougar]

I also think that the new multi division classifications has something to do with it too.

What I meant by saying this is that it allows for more opertunities to continue runs. The only example I have is Celina/Liberty Hill rivalry in the late 2000's. I know in 2007 both won SCs in 3A. That would not have happened in the old days.

[Ernest T Bass]

I KNOW SLC set the gold standard in facilites by which all other programs in Texas are measured by. Sure they have been surpassed as more communities utilize their affluence.

I call you on your remark about "overachieving". What does that mean? A pretentious word for "rich"? Lots of schools have real over achieving kids and parents. They just don't have the unlimited funds to provide the best private training /coaching that MONEY can buy. There are some awesome athletes at SLC I am sure. Go put them in a DISD or a HISD intercity school without their parents money and see how many SCs they win then.

Outside resources make a huge difference. I use Waco ISD vs Midway ISD as an example.

SLC hasn't reached that critical point in a school district's history that forces the creation of a New High School that will break up the talent as happened in Plano and other power house programs of the past.

Gold standard? Dude, what are you smoking? Have you seen Allen? Coppell? Deer Park? Birdville? Cy-Fair? Lake Travis? I could go on. Southlake's are nice, but far from the "gold standard".
As far as what I mean by "overacheiving". You don't get to live in Southlake with just a high school diploma and working 40 hours a week. Therefore, you've worked pretty hard and have acheived a few things in your life if you're there. Those values, be it nature or nurture, are usually passed down to their kids. Claiming that they have more money is a loser's response.
As far as that "critical point", there is no such thing. Allen HS is now over 6,000 students and AISD has made it clear that they will NEVER open a new high school. I seriously doubt that Carroll ISD will either. It's all a choice made by the district.

[Bullaholic]

The success of SLC can be sliced and diced any way you want---the bottom line is this---anytime teams are backed by a committment to excellence by the district, coaches, fans, parents, and players---there is success.

[ctown81]

Gold standard? Dude, what are you smoking? Have you seen Allen? Coppell? Deer Park? Birdville? Cy-Fair? Lake Travis? I could go on. Southlake's are nice, but far from the "gold standard".
As far as what I mean by "overacheiving". You don't get to live in Southlake with just a high school diploma and working 40 hours a week. Therefore, you've worked pretty hard and have acheived a few things in your life if you're there. Those values, be it nature or nurture, are usually passed down to their kids. Claiming that they have more money is a loser's response.
As far as that "critical point", there is no such thing. Allen HS is now over 6,000 students and AISD has made it clear that they will NEVER open a new high school. I seriously doubt that Carroll ISD will either. It's all a choice made by the district.

You missed understood the previous poster. He said SLC SET the gold standard but others have since passed them by.

[Old Tiger]

You missed understood the previous poster. He said SLC SET the gold standard but others have since passed them by.I think Dodge leaving hurt that program more than anyone expected it would.

[Lion70]

I think Dodge leaving hurt that program more than anyone expected it would.

Yes that 2011 State Championship made them look real bad.

[Lion70]

You missed understood the previous poster. He said SLC SET the gold standard but others have since passed them by.

Celina with 8 State Championships?

[Roughneck93]

Celina with 8 State Championships?

They are talking about setting the gold standard when comes to facilities.

[Old Tiger]

Yes that 2011 State Championship made them look real bad.Took them 4 years to get back there after Wasson took over with a lot of great pieces and program in place. Wasson got out coached a lot his first two years at SLC.



They should have won the 2007 state championship.

[Lion70]

They are talking about setting the gold standard when comes to facilities.

my mistake than that should go to Allen lol for at least football.

[Lion70]

Took them 4 years to get back there after Wasson took over with a lot of great pieces and program in place. Wasson got out coached a lot his first two years at SLC.



They should have won the 2007 state championship. Katy wasn't exactly bad I mean you could said the same about this year Alvarado.

[Lion70]

Took them 4 years to get back there after Wasson took over with a lot of great pieces and program in place. Wasson got out coached a lot his first two years at SLC.



They should have won the 2007 state championship.


They made the playoffs like longview post dodge era so they wern't exactly Pine tree . This is how you made it sound.

[Old Tiger]

They made the playoffs like longview post dodge era so they wern't exactly Pine tree . This is how you made it sound.Making the playoffs at schools like SLC, Lake Travis, Celina, and other programs of their calibur is just an average year. Its state title or bust at those schools.

[Lion70]

Making the playoffs at schools like SLC, Lake Travis, Celina, and other programs of their calibur is just an average year. Its state title or bust at those schools.


SLC was just spoiled all teams have to rebuild sometime, but that is a nice problem to have.

[waterboy]

In the past 4 season, 3A division 1 has been the weakest of the two and the 3A division II team would have a much better chance, with CH being the exception. When you talk about the best football program, regular season is considered and divisions do not come into play until playoffs. Especially in the dfw all the top teams face each other once a year.
I disagree with that statement. Gilmer in '09 was the best team in either division and they were D1. I would hazard a pretty good guess that that same year there were at least two or three teams from D1 that would've won the D2 title. I think it's about half and half as to which division is better, but the road to the title is shorter in D1.

[Lion70]

I disagree with that statement. Gilmer in '09 was the best team in either division and they were D1. I would hazard a pretty good guess that that same year there were at least two or three teams that would've won the D2 title.

good to see someone with some sense,

[Old Tiger]

SLC was just spoiled all teams have to rebuild sometime, but that is a nice problem to have.When Wasson took over he inherited a team that had Tre Newton(2,000 yard rusher, 20 touchdowns) and Riley Dodge who was the 2006 AP 5a offensive POY. That team returned 8 starters on offense and 7 on defense from a state title team.




Whats even crazier about LT run is they have had 2 or 3 coaches different head coaches during that run.

[NastySlot]

Those seasons SLC didn't win the titles.....who was beating them in the playoffs?

[Lion70]

Those seasons SLC didn't win the titles.....who was beating them in the playoffs?

2007 11-2 Lost to Abilene 21-20
2008 8-3 Lost to cedar hill 31-18
2009 11-2 Lost to Arlington Bowie 45-21
2010 10-4 Lost to denten guyer 21-14
2011 16-0 Beat Fort bend hightower

[ctown81]

I disagree with that statement. Gilmer in '09 was the best team in either division and they were D1. I would hazard a pretty good guess that that same year there were at least two or three teams from D1 that would've won the D2 title. I think it's about half and half as to which division is better, but the road to the title is shorter in D1.

I believe the DII winner would have beaten Gilmer that year. I'm sure it's no surprise I think that.

[Lion70]

I believe the DII winner would have beaten Gilmer that year. I'm sure it's no surprise I think that.

Gilmer wouldn't have got beat by Nac esp 60-35 lol and you beat kilgore 29-17 while Gilmer put 70 on kilgore. Jasper was beaten twice by gilmer 42-14 & 57-21 while carthage won 27-3. Gilmer beat Gladewater 67-12 while yall beat them 48-0. Advantage Gilmer

[ctown81]

Gilmer wouldn't have got beat by Nac esp 60-35 lol and you beat kilgore 29-17 while Gilmer put 70 on kilgore. Jasper was beaten twice by gilmer 42-14 & 57-21 while carthage won 27-3. Gilmer beat Gladewater 67-12 while yall beat them 48-0. Advantage Gilmer

Really??? yOu're going to compare like scores. First off Carthage was undefeated that year. The year we lost to nac we BEAT Gilmer and Henderson. As for the margin of victory. Carthage is known for pulling their horses after the first half. I believe Gilmer plays theirs till the end of the 3rd. Back in '08 it was the same story. Margin of victory this, margin of victory that and we beat them. Not saying you're wrong about the outcome but I expected better out of you on the logic.

[Old Tiger]

IMHO the team who scored the most points of the d1 and d2 winner should win 100% of the time.

[Lion70]

Really??? yOu're going to compare like scores. First off Carthage was undefeated that year. The year we lost to nac we BEAT Gilmer and Henderson. As for the margin of victory. Carthage is known for pulling their horses after the first half. I believe Gilmer plays theirs till the end of the 3rd. Back in '08 it was the same story. Margin of victory this, margin of victory that and we beat them. Not saying you're wrong about the outcome but I expected better out of you on the logic.

Still I can't overlook Nac putting 60 on yall.

[44INAROW]

I disagree with that statement. Gilmer in '09 was the best team in either division and they were D1. I would hazard a pretty good guess that that same year there were at least two or three teams from D1 that would've won the D2 title. I think it's about half and half as to which division is better, but the road to the title is shorter in D1.
I know a good team in 2009;; :)

[Hat42]

Funny how times change, I believe Chico beat SLC back in the 60's

[ctown81]

Still I can't overlook Nac putting 60 on yall.

Yeah that's going to haunt us for years to come, but as long as we get it right by district time I'll take that loss every time. Thompson, Pope and 5 others missed that game.

[Lion70]

Yeah that's going to haunt us for years to come, but as long as we get it right by district time I'll take that loss every time. Thompson, Pope and 5 others missed that game.

yeah we should have won in 2009 and beat Gilmer & Carthage in 2010. A Undefeated State Championship none the less, but at least we still got it done. Plus you have three State Championships to make up for that Nac game lol. I will take that anyday

[waterboy]

I know a good team in 2009;; :)
Tooshay!;) I believe y'all would've won it all in D2.

[waterboy]

Really??? yOu're going to compare like scores. First off Carthage was undefeated that year. The year we lost to nac we BEAT Gilmer and Henderson. As for the margin of victory. Carthage is known for pulling their horses after the first half. I believe Gilmer plays theirs till the end of the 3rd. Back in '08 it was the same story. Margin of victory this, margin of victory that and we beat them. Not saying you're wrong about the outcome but I expected better out of you on the logic.
Different teams, different years. There's no comparison except by what a team did against the same teams the same year. Yes, Carthage beat us in '08 by 3 points, but '09 was a totally different year, believe me. I guess by your logic IF both Gilmer (D2) and Carthage (D1) win 3A titles this year, it means that Gilmer is better than Carthage....seeing as we beat the Dawgs last season (by 3 points, too, hmmmmm), and it wouldn't matter if Gilmer lost two games in predistrict by BIG margins, beat common opponents by much fewer points, and Carthage went undefeated.

[ctown81]

Different teams, different years. There's no comparison except by what a team did against the same teams the same year. Yes, Carthage beat us in '08 by 3 points, but '09 was a totally different year, believe me. I guess by your logic IF both Gilmer (D2) and Carthage (D1) win 3A titles this year, it means that Gilmer is better than Carthage....seeing as we beat the Dawgs last season (by 3 points, too, hmmmmm), and it wouldn't matter if Gilmer lost two games in predistrict by BIG margins, beat common opponents by much fewer points, and Carthage went undefeated.

I just don't like comparing like opponents because different teams poses different match up issues. For example when you guys lost to Argyle in '10, I believe we just matched up better with Argyle. Doesn't mean we would have beaten you guys again. Then in the Brownwood game I believe we were the ONLY team in the state that matched up well with them.

Also, I don't care if Gilmer loses two preseason games by 60 points, as long as they are ready for district that's all that matters. I don't understand people putting so much on preseason games. We got crushed twice in 2010 and ended up winning it all. i just don't get it.

As for '09, I was trying to be funny with that comment. There's no way of ever knowing who would have won. Our defense was the best in state that year in my opinion and please don't pull up old scores. Our 1st team defense rarely played past the first half.

[ctown81]

yeah we should have won in 2009 and beat Gilmer & Carthage in 2010. A Undefeated State Championship none the less, but at least we still got it done. Plus you have three State Championships to make up for that Nac game lol. I will take that anyday

As you've already probably figured out Lion. People rarely care about who won the year before last it's always who won last year. I guess a one year drought isn't as bad as a 70+ year drought( had to get that in for a certain ET team) but I'm ready for number 4.

[waterboy]

I just don't like comparing like opponents because different teams poses different match up issues. For example when you guys lost to Argyle in '10, I believe we just matched up better with Argyle. Doesn't mean we would have beaten you guys again. Then in the Brownwood game I believe we were the ONLY team in the state that matched up well with them.

Also, I don't care if Gilmer loses two preseason games by 60 points, as long as they are ready for district that's all that matters. I don't understand people putting so much on preseason games. We got crushed twice in 2010 and ended up winning it all. i just don't get it.

As for '09, I was trying to be funny with that comment. There's no way of ever knowing who would have won. Our defense was the best in state that year in my opinion and please don't pull up old scores. Our 1st team defense rarely played past the first half.
Yeah, I know what you mean. The only thing that bothered me about the comparison is that a certain Carthage poster (not you, by the way) kept saying "SCOREBOARD" in '09. His logic was that Carthage in '09 was better than Gilmer in '09 because the Dawgs beat us in '08. I don't understand that kind of "logic" because it didn't make sense. It doesn't matter, we can speculate all we want. The point is we'll never know for sure for the reasons you pointed out. Every team matches up differently, and nobody knows what will happen when you actually play the game, i.e. turnovers, missed assignments, injuries, etc. I'm not making excuses, but I do believe we would've fared much better against Argyle with Luke Turner as our QB, if only because of the experience factor alone, much less the physicality of his play. It changed our entire offense. I am also disappointed that Gilmer and Carthage couldn't keep each other on their schedules. It was beginning to be a good, healthy rivalry between two very good programs.

[waterboy]

As you've already probably figured out Lion. People rarely care about who won the year before last it's always who won last year. I guess a one year drought isn't as bad as a 70+ year drought( had to get that in for a certain ET team) but I'm ready for number 4.
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif Hahaha......but they ARE the best team to NOT win a title in 70+ years! Some of their fans just don't get it, however, and feel they must run down teams that win titles in "lower" classifications. I understand their frustration, but there's no need in demeaning those who actually DO win titles in their respective class.

[ctown81]

Yeah, I know what you mean. The only thing that bothered me about the comparison is that a certain Carthage poster (not you, by the way) kept saying "SCOREBOARD" in '09. His logic was that Carthage in '09 was better than Gilmer in '09 because the Dawgs beat us in '08. I don't understand that kind of "logic" because it didn't make sense. It doesn't matter, we can speculate all we want. The point is we'll never know for sure for the reasons you pointed out. Every team matches up differently, and nobody knows what will happen when you actually play the game, i.e. turnovers, missed assignments, etc. I am, however, disappointed that Gilmer and Carthage couldn't keep each other on their schedules. It was beginning to be a good, healthy rivalry between two very good programs.

In '09 Godfrey was a man possessed and he touches the ball every play. Never a good combo for opposition. It looks like we will be DI and you guys will be DII so not even a play off hope. Im just glad we're not in that district. I don't consider last years 163a the district of doom. We all knew what 3 teams were going to make it. Now with this new district. It is the district of doom. 2 good teams will miss the playoffs. Good luck to you guys.

[waterboy]

In '09 Godfrey was a man possessed and he touches the ball every play. Never a good combo for opposition. It looks like we will be DI and you guys will be DII so not even a play off hope. Im just glad we're not in that district. I don't consider last years 163a the district of doom. We all knew what 3 teams were going to make it. Now with this new district. It is the district of doom. 2 good teams will miss the playoffs. Good luck to you guys.
I agree on Godfrey, and thanks, but I also believe Luke Turner possessed the same characteristics, but unfortunately we didn't get to see him in the playoffs. The "District of Doom 2.0" is probably stronger overall than the previous version, and, yes, there will be at least two very good teams that won't make the playoffs. I would wish the Dawgs good luck, but I don't think y'all will need it, lol. I guess I'll coin Carthage the "lucky Dawgs", for not only getting out of 16-3A, but out of Region 2.

[cowboyandchrist]

Gilmer wouldn't have got beat by Nac esp 60-35 lol and you beat kilgore 29-17 while Gilmer put 70 on kilgore. Jasper was beaten twice by gilmer 42-14 & 57-21 while carthage won 27-3. Gilmer beat Gladewater 67-12 while yall beat them 48-0. Advantage Gilmer
I am an ex-Carthage player and fan. Gilmer 09 would of beat my Dawgs by 3 touch downs. I will say 08 or 10 Dawgs would have beat the 09 Buckeyes. 08 for sure and 10 would have been a great game.

[Lion70]

As you've already probably figured out Lion. People rarely care about who won the year before last it's always who won last year. I guess a one year drought isn't as bad as a 70+ year drought( had to get that in for a certain ET team) but I'm ready for number 4.

75 to be exact lol your beginning to be one of my fav posters lol. I know but 2009 Henderson and 2010 henderson choked away those games against Carthage but yall made is stronger.

[Lion70]

Thats fair you both gave us all we wanted all three yrs.

[Lion70]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing025.gif Hahaha......but they ARE the best team to NOT win a title in 70+ years! Some of their fans just don't get it, however, and feel they must run down teams that win titles in "lower" classifications. I understand their frustration, but there's no need in demeaning those who actually DO win titles in their respective class.

Don't tell that to wolfie and co they will lose their mind.

I love making fun of them and standing up for the teams that actually win gotta love the Almost Champions.

[ctown81]

I am an ex-Carthage player and fan. Gilmer 09 would of beat my Dawgs by 3 touch downs. I will say 08 or 10 Dawgs would have beat the 09 Buckeyes. 08 for sure and 10 would have been a great game.

I don't know about that one. I say Gilmer in a close game. 3 touchdowns in a rivalry game like that is a bit of a stretch. Look at '08, the game should have never been that close and how they stopped Smith on 4 and 1 I will never know. They just played their hearts out and capitalized on every mistake we made and I think the roles would have been reversed in '09.