Tim Tebow Just Said...

[Txbroadcaster]

Tebow just said he has the platform to do a lot more important things than football. ..Will he be raked over coals like Romo was?

[turbostud]

He's already been raked over the coals.

[Macarthur]

It was reported that his pre game speech he gave to his teammates got a standing ovation. Those types of things are great and all, but much of this goes back to what has been discussed on other threads. It's about execution. Motivation and execution are not mutually exclusive, but some on here would have you believe that the Dramatic type of leadership you see with the TV cameras is all that matters.

[hollywood]

It was reported that his pre game speech he gave to his teammates got a standing ovation. Those types of things are great and all, but much of this goes back to what has been discussed on other threads. It's about execution. Motivation and execution are not mutually exclusive, but some on here would have you believe that the Dramatic type of leadership you see with the TV cameras is all that matters.


You crack me up. This is only his 2nd year in the NFL. Don't you think that his experience so far has been challenging? He will get better.

Like the Cowboys did this season, Denver's D didn't help the QB and the O. It's almost impossible to beat Brady and the Patriots at home, expecially in the playoffs.

[jason]

if the patriots play like that their next two games, nobody can beat them...

[Bullaholic]

Tebow just said he has the platform to do a lot more important things than football. ..Will he be raked over coals like Romo was?

If this season's playoff win is his only playoff win in 6 seasons and the perception by many is that this is largely his fault, chances are he will not be just raked over the coals, but replaced, especially if the Broncos draft or trade for a QB who throws well.

[regaleagle]

Tim Tebow has performed better than just about anybody ever expected as a qb in the NFL. I would say that about sums up this season for him and the Broncs. Would they have made the playoffs with another qb instead? Maybe, maybe not. Call it miraculous, unbelievable, unlikely, lucky, heaven-sent, or whatever you want. I guess if nothing else, you could say Tebow made believers out of some unbelievers, in one way or another.

[STANG RED]

Tebow will be raked over the coals by the haters, no matter what he says or does.

[Eagle 1]

Tebow just said he has the platform to do a lot more important things than football. ..Will he be raked over coals like Romo was?

It seems he is already being raked over the coals on this thread.
Of course why would he not be? After all his playoff victories in just two years equals that of Romo's in how many years?

[buff4ever]

It was reported that his pre game speech he gave to his teammates got a standing ovation. Those types of things are great and all, but much of this goes back to what has been discussed on other threads. It's about execution. Motivation and execution are not mutually exclusive, but some on here would have you believe that the Dramatic type of leadership you see with the TV cameras is all that matters.

I don't think we ever said this, I will admit that Tebow's teammates respond to his leadership better than Romo's teammates. That is obvious. I don't think that any of us said what type of leadership is preferred, the only thing that matters is does the leader have the respect of his teammates. If he does, they will follow and bust their butt, if he doesn't the opposite will occur.

It is very possible that Tebow never develop into the NFL quarterback, but he has proven to be a leader already. If he does develop into the prototype or some other successful NFL quarterback, then he will be something, b/c his teammates will play hard and respect him. Only time will tell. His comment may or may not be received well, but to put God ahead of football, should be taken better than putting personal pleasure and comfortable living ahead of football. I don't fault putting personal life ahead of football, but when you are talking to the media and your fans, that just isn't what they want to hear. When you are in front of the cameras, you are at work, and you need to act like you put everything into your work, and in that moment it is the important thing.

[waterboy]

A lot of people act like a miracle was going to happen in Foxboro, MA this past weekend. That's basically what it would've taken to beat the Patriots. Anyone with a brain knows that Denver is not in the same league personnel-wise as New England. Tim Tebow will be fine, and there is no doubt he is a good leader, and a good role model. Denver should get better once they get some better players, in my opinion.

[Phil C]

Tebow just said he has the platform to do a lot more important things than football. ..Will he be raked over coals like Romo was?

Oh the horror! :eek::crying:

[Farmersfan]

Tebow just said he has the platform to do a lot more important things than football. ..Will he be raked over coals like Romo was?



This is certainly a simplistic way of looking at things TXB. Tim Tebow said these things AFTER he overachieved and led his team to perform better than anyone expected them to. Romo said his after a complete meltdown and utter underachievement. Tim Tebow led a team that was dead last in the NFL in talent last season to a playoff win while Romo has led a team that has been top 5 in talent to only a single playoff win in 6 damn seasons.

[Farmersfan]

It was reported that his pre game speech he gave to his teammates got a standing ovation. Those types of things are great and all, but much of this goes back to what has been discussed on other threads. It's about execution. Motivation and execution are not mutually exclusive, but some on here would have you believe that the Dramatic type of leadership you see with the TV cameras is all that matters.



It is all that matters if the quite leadership isn't working Mac! I don't remember anyone specifically stating what kind of leadership is best for Tony Romo! All I ever remember anyone saying is that what he is doing now DOESN'T WORK!!!!!! And the one thing about this season for Tebow that everyone isn't realizing is that he has now "set the bar". Once the newness wears off of his God-schtick he will be expected to achieve this level of success again and with that team it won't be easy. The quickness that the population will turn on him once he stops overachieving will astound us all.

[GrTigers6]

This is certainly a simplistic way of looking at things TXB. Tim Tebow said these things AFTER he overachieved and led his team to perform better than anyone expected them to. Romo said his after a complete meltdown and utter underachievement. Tim Tebow led a team that was dead last in the NFL in talent last season to a playoff win while Romo has led a team that has been top 5 in talent to only a single playoff win in 6 damn seasons. WOW, Wait a minute. Lets back up the Tebow train a little bit. The broncos finished 8-8 and backed into the playoffs. because when they had to win to make the playoffs the lost there last three games. And of those 8 wins, most of them can be given to the defense by keeping it close enough to kick a long field goal to win it. Now not to take anything away from Tebow, but he hasnt played that well. with the exception of 1 or 2 games. The denver D had a great game plan against a crippled steeler team and Tebow did what he had to to win. I m sick of everyone talking about how good he is.
Now do I think he has a future in the nfl, of course but only time will tell!

[Farmersfan]

WOW, Wait a minute. Lets back up the Tebow train a little bit. The broncos finished 8-8 and backed into the playoffs. because when they had to win to make the playoffs the lost there last three games. And of those 8 wins, most of them can be given to the defense by keeping it close enough to kick a long field goal to win it. Now not to take anything away from Tebow, but he hasnt played that well. with the exception of 1 or 2 games. The denver D had a great game plan against a crippled steeler team and Tebow did what he had to to win. I m sick of everyone talking about how good he is.
Now do I think he has a future in the nfl, of course but only time will tell!



So now there is a "Tebow Train"? :)

Seriously, I haven't seen too many people commenting on Tebow's great play. I think most people are concentrating on his leadership ability in the lockerroom and on the field. Great leadership can get as much out of team as great talent can. But that is a fragile situation. As soon as the luster wears off the Tebow train and his leadership style stops getting the results I think we will see the true way of things. Right now though it's a shiny new penny and everyone loves it. Give it time!

[GrTigers6]

So now there is a "Tebow Train"? :)

Seriously, I haven't seen too many people commenting on Tebow's great play. I think most people are concentrating on his leadership ability in the lockerroom and on the field. Great leadership can get as much out of team as great talent can. But that is a fragile situation. As soon as the luster wears off the Tebow train and his leadership style stops getting the results I think we will see the true way of things. Right now though it's a shiny new penny and everyone loves it. Give it time!Sorry stole train comment from espn, lol
But whatever happened to lead by example? Thats when you will see tebows leadership faulter if he cant step up his game

[forum_guy]

The broncos as a whole are terrible. He has no offensive weapons to throw to begin with. I mean lets be real, he easily has the worst ofensive core of wr's in the league and no TE to check down to or rely on. Im not on the Tebow wagon just saying. They really have no playmakers for him to work with.

[GrTigers6]

The broncos as a whole are terrible. He has no offensive weapons to throw to begin with. I mean lets be real, he easily has the worst ofensive core of wr's in the league and no TE to check down to or rely on. Im not on the Tebow wagon just saying. They really have no playmakers for him to work with.But even if they do, he has to put the ball within a reasonable area to be caught and 60 % percent of the time that doesnt happen

[Macarthur]

The broncos as a whole are terrible. He has no offensive weapons to throw to begin with. I mean lets be real, he easily has the worst ofensive core of wr's in the league and no TE to check down to or rely on. Im not on the Tebow wagon just saying. They really have no playmakers for him to work with.

I'm not sure I agree with this. He has Eddie Royal and D. Thomas was a 1st round pick. Moreno is a 1st round pick and McGahee is a solid professional.

[Txbroadcaster]

funny how when Orton was QB he was the problem because not getting enough out of the talent around him( and yes I know they traded their top WR)..but Tebow steps in and it is all about poor Tebow he has no talent around him to help

[buff4ever]

I think it is a semi-valid excuse. I wasn't ever going to throw it out there. With Tebow we won't know anything until he has a little more time. I think with the offense they need to run with him, he doesn't have to be the best passer in the league. He will need to be better than he was this year, but he is still a very inexperienced qb in this league. Few are able to be great in their first year or two. He is a leader, if he can improve his passing game, and stay healthy, I think he will remain fairly competitive. If he doesn't improve his passing game, not matter how good of a leader he is, his supporting cast will start to lose faith. I think he will work very hard during the offseason to improve.

[Farmersfan]

funny how when Orton was QB he was the problem because not getting enough out of the talent around him( and yes I know they traded their top WR)..but Tebow steps in and it is all about poor Tebow he has no talent around him to help



I think the only thing said about Orton was how he "SUCKS"! I never said saw anyone say he couldn't get enough out of the talent. Denver was picked by most as the one of the least talented teams in the NFL. And Orton was 1-4 with the exact same teammates that Tebow was 7-4 with. Leadership is big deal! The difference in the top teams and the average teams is a few great players and leadership!

And with all this being said how does everyone feel T. Tebow would have done with this year's Cowboy team? IMHO he has about 50% of Romo's QB skills but he has 150% of Romo's athleticism and 200% of Romo's leadership. I say he makes the playoffs and wins two more games with Dallas.......................:wave::stirpot:

[Farmersfan]

Sorry stole train comment from espn, lol
But whatever happened to lead by example? Thats when you will see tebows leadership faulter if he cant step up his game



Exactly! At some point you have to produce on the field on a consistent basis. Tebow got the same benefit that Romo got when starting out. They both followed horrible QBs so any success was viewed with enthusiasm. But like I said before, Tebow has now set the bar and anything less will be frowned on.................

[Txbroadcaster]

I think the only thing said about Orton was how he "SUCKS"! I never said saw anyone say he couldn't get enough out of the talent. Denver was picked by most as the one of the least talented teams in the NFL. And Orton was 1-4 with the exact same teammates that Tebow was 7-4 with. Leadership is big deal! The difference in the top teams and the average teams is a few great players and leadership!

And with all this being said how does everyone feel T. Tebow would have done with this year's Cowboy team? IMHO he has about 50% of Romo's QB skills but he has 150% of Romo's athleticism and 200% of Romo's leadership. I say he makes the playoffs and wins two more games with Dallas.......................:wave::stirpot:

4-12 6-10 at best

[Farmersfan]

4-12 6-10 at best



So the talent in Denver is 2-4 games better than the talent in Dallas? Watch what you say TXB because it will be used against you in a court of law..................................

[buff4ever]

So the talent in Denver is 2-4 games better than the talent in Dallas? Watch what you say TXB because it will be used against you in a court of law..................................


:) funny stuff

[Macarthur]

So the talent in Denver is 2-4 games better than the talent in Dallas? Watch what you say TXB because it will be used against you in a court of law..................................

You can't judge records in a vacuum. If Dallas had played in the AFC West, they probably are a 10-6 or 11-5 team.

[Farmersfan]

You can't judge records in a vacuum. If Dallas had played in the AFC West, they probably are a 10-6 or 11-5 team.



That's funny Mac! You start off by saying we can't judge records in a vacuum and then you proceed to do exactly that. And just for the record these two teams played 5 common opponents and both teams went 2-3 against those opponents. And Denver went 8-8 in a tougher schedule than Dallas played. I'm pretty sure Tebow wins at least two more games with Dallas if for no other reason than his leadership.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/35095/2011-strength-of-schedule

[Macarthur]

That's funny Mac! You start off by saying we can't judge records in a vacuum and then you proceed to do exactly that. And just for the record these two teams played 5 common opponents and both teams went 2-3 against those opponents. And Denver went 8-8 in a tougher schedule than Dallas played. I'm pretty sure Tebow wins at least two more games with Dallas if for no other reason than his leadership.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/35095/2011-strength-of-schedule

If you think playing in the AFC West was more difficult than playing in the NFC East, you're nuts. They also got Minn, Chicago after they lost their starting QB, and got killed by Buff.

They got KC twice, Oak twice. I would argue that if Wash (the worst team in the NFC East) played in the AFC West, they would have won that division.

[Macarthur]

Here's the deal. The Broncos went on a 7-1 run when Tebow took over. That's where their season was made and I give him and the rest of the team credit for making it happen. But let's not act as if they played anyone of consequence.

Wins: Miami, Oak, KC, Jets (decent win), SD (good win), Minn, Chicago (with back up QB)
Losses: Det (playoff team),

Then they finished the season by getting drilled by NE and Buff and lost to a horrific KC team 7-3.

[Txbroadcaster]

So the talent in Denver is 2-4 games better than the talent in Dallas? Watch what you say TXB because it will be used against you in a court of law..................................


never said that..like Mac said..I think if Dallas had played in AFC West they win the division by 3-4 games easy. Tebow would be destroyed IMO in the NFC East.

[Txbroadcaster]

That's funny Mac! You start off by saying we can't judge records in a vacuum and then you proceed to do exactly that. And just for the record these two teams played 5 common opponents and both teams went 2-3 against those opponents. And Denver went 8-8 in a tougher schedule than Dallas played. I'm pretty sure Tebow wins at least two more games with Dallas if for no other reason than his leadership.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/35095/2011-strength-of-schedule

that is a ranking based off of 2010 records

[areacode337]

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7455943/believing-tim-tebow

[areacode337]

Tebow on talking to fans he invites with serious illness:




"Just the opposite," Tebow says. "It's by far the best thing I do to get myself ready. Here you are, about to play a game that the world says is the most important thing in the world. Win and they praise you. Lose and they crush you. And here I have a chance to talk to the coolest, most courageous people. It puts it all into perspective. The game doesn't really matter. I mean, I'll give 100 percent of my heart to win it, but in the end, the thing I most want to do is not win championships or make a lot of money, it's to invest in people's lives, to make a difference."

[Farmersfan]

If you think playing in the AFC West was more difficult than playing in the NFC East, you're nuts. They also got Minn, Chicago after they lost their starting QB, and got killed by Buff.

They got KC twice, Oak twice. I would argue that if Wash (the worst team in the NFC East) played in the AFC West, they would have won that division.



Dallas and Denver each played NE, Jets, Lions, Bills and Dolphins and each team went 2-3 against those same teams. What warped logic makes you think Dallas would have been better than 3-3 in the AFC West?
The AFC West went 31-33 as a division and the NFC West went 30-34 as a division. And the AFC West had 3 teams in the top 5 toughest schedules this season................................. The AFC West had 3 teams finish with a 8-8 record so none of those inter-divisional games were against cake walk teams like the Redskins. In fact the Redskins went 0-5 against those same common opponents.

[Farmersfan]

Here's the deal. The Broncos went on a 7-1 run when Tebow took over. That's where their season was made and I give him and the rest of the team credit for making it happen. But let's not act as if they played anyone of consequence.

Dallas also beat Mia, Washigton twice, Seattle, Rams and Tampa Bay!!!!!!!!!!! Consequence????


Wins: Miami, Oak, KC, Jets (decent win), SD (good win), Minn, Chicago (with back up QB)
Losses: Det (playoff team), .


Wins against Niners and a Buffalo team that was doing a tail spin. I'd say 1 (ONE) decent win. And didn't the Rams, Washington and Philly play dallas with their backup QBs? :iagree:



Then they finished the season by getting drilled by NE and Buff and lost to a horrific KC team 7-3.


Dallas finished the season getting drilled by NY(twice), Philly and losing to a bad Arizona team.

[Macarthur]

Dallas and Denver each played NE, Jets, Lions, Bills and Dolphins and each team went 2-3 against those same teams. What warped logic makes you think Dallas would have been better than 3-3 in the AFC West?

And let's look a little closer at some of those games: NE - Dallas close loss, Den blowout. Jets - Dal close loss (should have won), Den close win, Lions - Dal close loss (should have won), Den blowout loss. Bills - Dal blowout win, Den blowout loss. Dolphins Dal close win, Den Close win. So as you can see, while the record of 2-3 looks very similar, I think looking into the games in more depth will show that each game, with the exception of Miami, played out much differently.


In fact the Redskins went 0-5 against those same common opponents.

Not arguing that the Skins were 'good' but I think there's something to mention here. The Skins started out 3-1 with a close loss to the Cowboys. They then had a close loss to the Eagles and then the wheels went flying off. They had major QB issues or I think they have a much better season.

[Macarthur]

Wins against Niners and a Buffalo team that was doing a tail spin. I'd say 1 (ONE) decent win. And didn't the Rams, Washington and Philly play dallas with their backup QBs? :iagree:

Dallas kinda started Buffalo's tail spin maybe the week before in NY, but they were 5-3 when they came to Dallas. Yes, Bradford was out, but Dallas did play Vick twice and Grossman twice. The only backup QB Dallas faced was Stl.






Dallas finished the season getting drilled by NY(twice)

Nope.


, Philly and losing to a bad Arizona team.

The AZ loss is still a head scratcher but many folks felt that Philly was the hottest team in the NFC the last month of the season.

[Farmersfan]

that is a ranking based off of 2010 records



It would be way more in Denver's favor if you used this season's final records TXB. The AFC WEST had a better record than the NFC West and Denver played a non-conference schedule way, way tougher than Dallas did. I don't know why ya'll keep arguing the point! Tebow lead a less talented team to the same record against tougher opponents than Tony did. That is a FACT. I would never say Tebow is a better QB but I certainly think this fact proves that leadership and attitude will win just as many games as uninspired talent.

[Farmersfan]

And let's look a little closer at some of those games: NE - Dallas close loss, Den blowout. Jets - Dal close loss (should have won), Den close win, Lions - Dal close loss (should have won), Den blowout loss. Bills - Dal blowout win, Den blowout loss. Dolphins Dal close win, Den Close win. So as you can see, while the record of 2-3 looks very similar, I think looking into the games in more depth will show that each game, with the exception of Miami, played out much differently.



Not arguing that the Skins were 'good' but I think there's something to mention here. The Skins started out 3-1 with a close loss to the Cowboys. They then had a close loss to the Eagles and then the wheels went flying off. They had major QB issues or I think they have a much better season.



Try looking a little closer at the Denver games too! The point is that you nit-pick things when Dallas is involved and take them on their surface value when someone else is involved. Denver was not as good a team as Dallas was. That's just the point. yet they beat the same number of teams and played a tougher schedule. How do YOU equate the same record by a less talented team in a tougher schedule if it isn't 100% the leadership of Tebow? And if the leadership of Tebow wins them 8 games in a tougher schedule then why would he not also do better than that with better talent in a weaker schedule? Simple question.................

[Txbroadcaster]

Try looking a little closer at the Denver games too! The point is that you nit-pick things when Dallas is involved and take them on their surface value when someone else is involved. Denver was not as good a team as Dallas was. That's just the point. yet they beat the same number of teams and played a tougher schedule. How do YOU equate the same record by a less talented team in a tougher schedule if it isn't 100% the leadership of Tebow? And if the leadership of Tebow wins them 8 games in a tougher schedule then why would he not also do better than that with better talent in a weaker schedule? Simple question.................

Sorry I dont think the Broncos had tougher schedule especially in division.I would take playing Denver, Oakland, KC over Giants, and Eagles everyday of the week..SD is only one IMO that if they are playing to their abilities could have success right now in the East

[GrTigers6]

Try looking a little closer at the Denver games too! The point is that you nit-pick things when Dallas is involved and take them on their surface value when someone else is involved. Denver was not as good a team as Dallas was. That's just the point. yet they beat the same number of teams and played a tougher schedule. How do YOU equate the same record by a less talented team in a tougher schedule if it isn't 100% the leadership of Tebow? And if the leadership of Tebow wins them 8 games in a tougher schedule then why would he not also do better than that with better talent in a weaker schedule? Simple question.................The fact that you are comparing tebow to romo and actually saying that tebow would have done better is so comical that I think of a response because I am laughing so hard. You always say people lose credibility for there opinions by th things they say on here. Well you just lost all credibility with me.
Do you think putting the defense out there every 3 offensive plays would of helped their defensive play?

[Farmersfan]

Sorry I dont think the Broncos had tougher schedule especially in division.I would take playing Denver, Oakland, KC over Giants, and Eagles everyday of the week..SD is only one IMO that if they are playing to their abilities could have success right now in the East



And this is based on what? Your opinion? Please post anything that would support this. Let's examine it.

Offense rankings this season: Philly #4, chargers #6, Giants #8, Raiders #9
defensive rankings this season: Philly #8, Chiefs#11, Skins #13, Cowboys#14, Chargers#16, Broncos #20

AFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Cincy, Tennessee, Packers, Miami, Lions, Jets, Vikings, Bills and Bears. Combined record of 88-72 or a +16,
NFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Jets, Lions, Niners, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Bucs for a combined record of 77-83 or a -6.

The AFC west played opponents who won 11 more games this season. The AFC West teams themselves also had a better combined record than the NFC West teams did against these tougher opponents.

So basically the smart person would understand that the small ranking advantage in offense and defense for the NFC West teams was probably due to playing a weaker schedule................... of course I don't expect you guys to understand that! :wave:

[Farmersfan]

The fact that you are comparing tebow to romo and actually saying that tebow would have done better is so comical that I think of a response because I am laughing so hard. You always say people lose credibility for there opinions by th things they say on here. Well you just lost all credibility with me.
Do you think putting the defense out there every 3 offensive plays would of helped their defensive play?




How much of an improvement would we have seen from an inspired Dallas Cowboy team? Could Tebow even inspire this collection of veterans? Who knows! All I know is that Dallas is way more talented than Denver and yet they accomplished the same record............... I think the defeat against the Patriots this weekend showed just how much over his head Tebow was. But there is no denying his inspiration of the team. You guys keep talking about the poor defensive play this season so what changes in the record would we see if Tebow came here and inspired this defense to play like it did 2 years ago when it was #2 in the entire league? All very viable questions.

[Txbroadcaster]

And this is based on what? Your opinion? Please post anything that would support this. Let's examine it.

Offense rankings this season: Philly #4, chargers #6, Giants #8, Raiders #9
defensive rankings this season: Philly #8, Chiefs#11, Skins #13, Cowboys#14, Chargers#16, Broncos #20

AFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Cincy, Tennessee, Packers, Miami, Lions, Jets, Vikings, Bills and Bears. Combined record of 88-72 or a +16,
NFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Jets, Lions, Niners, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Bucs for a combined record of 77-83 or a -6.

The AFC west played opponents who won 11 more games this season. The AFC West teams themselves also had a better combined record than the NFC West teams did against these tougher opponents.

So basically the smart person would understand that the small ranking advantage in offense and defense for the NFC West teams was probably due to playing a weaker schedule................... of course I don't expect you guys to understand that! :wave:


we all use stats and we all know how to use them to our benefit in a debate..you used total yards for offense

go to PPG and Chargers were 5th...next best AFC west team? Oakland at 16th..Broncos were 22nd..Chiefs next to last.

so since 8 games are played in the division that should mean the defensive PPG are pretty good since the offense are not great( unless in other 8 games they are just getting killed)

So AFC West defensive PPG? KC 12th....SD 22nd..Den 24th...Oakland 28th


NFC East..3 of the offensive PPG are top 16, with Philly and Giants 8th and 9th

NFC East D PPG... Philly 9th..Dallas 16th..Washington 20th..Giants 25th.

[Txbroadcaster]

And this is based on what? Your opinion? Please post anything that would support this. Let's examine it.

Offense rankings this season: Philly #4, chargers #6, Giants #8, Raiders #9
defensive rankings this season: Philly #8, Chiefs#11, Skins #13, Cowboys#14, Chargers#16, Broncos #20

AFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Cincy, Tennessee, Packers, Miami, Lions, Jets, Vikings, Bills and Bears. Combined record of 88-72 or a +16,
NFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Jets, Lions, Niners, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Bucs for a combined record of 77-83 or a -6.

The AFC west played opponents who won 11 more games this season. The AFC West teams themselves also had a better combined record than the NFC West teams did against these tougher opponents.

So basically the smart person would understand that the small ranking advantage in offense and defense for the NFC West teams was probably due to playing a weaker schedule................... of course I don't expect you guys to understand that! :wave:


your missing a bunch of teams that NFC east played..prob missing some from AFC west opponents as well

[GrTigers6]

How much of an improvement would we have seen from an inspired Dallas Cowboy team? Could Tebow even inspire this collection of veterans? Who knows! All I know is that Dallas is way more talented than Denver and yet they accomplished the same record............... I think the defeat against the Patriots this weekend showed just how much over his head Tebow was. But there is no denying his inspiration of the team. You guys keep talking about the poor defensive play this season so what changes in the record would we see if Tebow came here and inspired this defense to play like it did 2 years ago when it was #2 in the entire league? All very viable questions.Except the defense had more talent two years ago, and a scheme that worked better with their talent.
Also Tebow would not have been able to make the plays that romo do to win the games that Romo won. Will he be able to next year or after that. quite possibly but not from what he showed so far.
Yes he inspired players, Is it from leadership or because they disliked orton so much they would have followed Ryan Leaf or Quincy Carter:D

[Farmersfan]

The fact that you are comparing tebow to romo and actually saying that tebow would have done better is so comical that I think of a response because I am laughing so hard. You always say people lose credibility for there opinions by th things they say on here. Well you just lost all credibility with me.
Do you think putting the defense out there every 3 offensive plays would of helped their defensive play?



We might have half the quality of a QB with Tebow but if his leadership gives us twice the quality of play from everyone else then it's a positive all the way around...................... that's all I was saying.

[Txbroadcaster]

We might have half the quality of a QB with Tebow but if his leadership gives us twice the quality of play from everyone else then it's a positive all the way around...................... that's all I was saying.

yet Cowboys have said over and over Tony inspired them as well

and it is funny because Skip Bayless who of course Tebow's biggest backer claimed the Broncos quit agianst the Pats...well is that not a leader not able to lead if his team quits on him?

[Farmersfan]

your missing a bunch of teams that NFC east played..prob missing some from AFC west opponents as well



Yes. these are the Cowboy's opponents. 8 of the 10 are common opponents with all NFC West teams. I didn't go so far as to adjust for the other 2 for each team because I figured it would be a wash. but you can if it makes you feel better. but I'm satisfied using the SOS ranking that the rest of the world uses.
Here is interesting article about the Cowboy's SOS:

olatility and Strength of Schedule (SOS)

"At the start of the 2011 season, the Cowboys had a pretty average SOS of .504. After week 17, the actual SOS had mellowed to .473, and Dallas ranked a comfortable 25th - yet still only managed an 8-8 record against one of the weakest schedules in the league."

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/1/3/2676144/early-look-2012-nfl-strength-of-schedule-cowboys-giants-eagles

[Farmersfan]

yet Cowboys have said over and over Tony inspired them as well

and it is funny because Skip Bayless who of course Tebow's biggest backer claimed the Broncos quit agianst the Pats...well is that not a leader not able to lead if his team quits on him?



So you hearing the inspiration speech over and over in your head at night TXB? And have you fallen so far now that you are taking your cue from Skip (I can't think for myself) Bayless? :)

I don't think anybody REALLY thinks Tebow is better than Tony Romo at this point. I'm simply speculating on what Tebow would do with this team if he could motivate them the way he motivated the Broncos. And I'm pretty sure all intelligent people who watched these Cowboys over the past 6 years or so understands that there is very little "Inspiration" going on with that team. Regardless of what they might say. I'm referring to the inspiration that produces results on the field and not just lip service to the media. You guys have to understand that.............

Have a good night everyone! I'm headed home.

[Txbroadcaster]

So you hearing the inspiration speech over and over in your head at night TXB? And have you fallen so far now that you are taking your cue from Skip (I can't think for myself) Bayless? :)

I don't think anybody REALLY thinks Tebow is better than Tony Romo at this point. I'm simply speculating on what Tebow would do with this team if he could motivate them the way he motivated the Broncos. And I'm pretty sure all intelligent people who watched these Cowboys over the past 6 years or so understands that there is very little "Inspiration" going on with that team. Regardless of what they might say. I'm referring to the inspiration that produces results on the field and not just lip service to the media. You guys have to understand that.............

Have a good night everyone! I'm headed home.


Actually Skip usually comes at stuff from way different angles, he does not fall in line with everyone else..hence him picking the Broncos to win the division once Tebow became starter

and quit saying NFC West lol

[Eagle 1]

And this is based on what? Your opinion? Please post anything that would support this. Let's examine it.

Offense rankings this season: Philly #4, chargers #6, Giants #8, Raiders #9
defensive rankings this season: Philly #8, Chiefs#11, Skins #13, Cowboys#14, Chargers#16, Broncos #20

AFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Cincy, Tennessee, Packers, Miami, Lions, Jets, Vikings, Bills and Bears. Combined record of 88-72 or a +16,
NFC West non-conference opponents: New England, Jets, Lions, Niners, Rams, Seahawks, Bills, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Bucs for a combined record of 77-83 or a -6.

The AFC west played opponents who won 11 more games this season. The AFC West teams themselves also had a better combined record than the NFC West teams did against these tougher opponents.

So basically the smart person would understand that the small ranking advantage in offense and defense for the NFC West teams was probably due to playing a weaker schedule................... of course I don't expect you guys to understand that! :wave:

This...

[Txbroadcaster]

This...


and yes the whole this...is basically wrong lol

[Eagle 1]

and yes the whole this...is basically wrong lol


I'm satisfied using the SOS ranking that the rest of the world uses.


Enough said. :)

[Txbroadcaster]

Enough said. :)


lol no his list of teams was incomplete is what I meant.

[forum_guy]

Romo in denver would equal same results IMO That team just isnt that good. The overall talent on that team is bad. They are definitely at the bottom of the list when it comes to playmaking wr's/ TE. Even if Tebow gets better in the offseason this team needs help all over.

[buff4ever]

Romo in denver would equal same results IMO That team just isnt that good. The overall talent on that team is bad. They are definitely at the bottom of the list when it comes to playmaking wr's/ TE. Even if Tebow gets better in the offseason this team needs help all over.

You are exactly right, and yet they made the playoffs, beat the steelers in the first round, got to play (and get arse kicked) in the second round of playoffs. Romo has had better talent, on both sides of the ball over all his years, and can't quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs.

[GrTigers6]

You are exactly right, and yet they made the playoffs, beat the steelers in the first round, got to play (and get arse kicked) in the second round of playoffs. Romo has had better talent, on both sides of the ball over all his years, and can't quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs.So your saying he hasnt won a first round playoff and got destroyed in the second round? Thats exactly what happened two years ago. But as I have said before that is not on Romo. IF the defense would have finished two games we wouldnt be having the discussion of Romo missing the playoffs

[Farmersfan]

we all use stats and we all know how to use them to our benefit in a debate..you used total yards for offense

go to PPG and Chargers were 5th...next best AFC west team? Oakland at 16th..Broncos were 22nd..Chiefs next to last.

so since 8 games are played in the division that should mean the defensive PPG are pretty good since the offense are not great( unless in other 8 games they are just getting killed)

So AFC West defensive PPG? KC 12th....SD 22nd..Den 24th...Oakland 28th


NFC East..3 of the offensive PPG are top 16, with Philly and Giants 8th and 9th

NFC East D PPG... Philly 9th..Dallas 16th..Washington 20th..Giants 25th.




You know it is getting completely ridiculous the extremes you guys will go to in order to defend Tony Romo. You even have to "discredit" the accomplishments of other teams/QBs just so nobody can make the comparisons to Romo. T. Tebow accomplished something in just 11 games that Romo hasn't been able to do in 6 years and Tebow did it with a much lesser talented team. Of course you can't stand the comparison because is shines a horrible light on Tony Romo. Has anybody said that Tebow was a better QB than Tony Romo? Of course not. But many, many, many people will agree that Tebow is a better leader and a better motivator. At least at this point in his career. He accomplished more in 11 games with a much lesser talented team than Romo has been able to do. Dispute whether Tebow is the reason if you want but you can't deny the Broncos level of success this season eclipses what Romo has accomplished with the Cowboys in his career. Tebow won a race with a VW Bug that Romo has not been able to win with a Corvette in 6 years of trying. That is a FACT!

[Farmersfan]

So your saying he hasnt won a first round playoff and got destroyed in the second round? Thats exactly what happened two years ago. But as I have said before that is not on Romo. IF the defense would have finished two games we wouldnt be having the discussion of Romo missing the playoffs


If Frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their arses everytime they jumped!!!!

Really if you look at things from YOUR perspective you could say the defense was the reason the Cowboys didn't go 16-0. I mean the offense scored at least 1 point in every single game so if the damn defense had just held the lead we would have went undeated!

[waterboy]

So your saying he hasnt won a first round playoff and got destroyed in the second round? Thats exactly what happened two years ago. But as I have said before that is not on Romo. IF the defense would have finished two games we wouldnt be having the discussion of Romo missing the playoffs
For argument's sake, the Cowboys could've very easily been 12-4 this season had it not been for defensive meltdowns, a bonehead coaching decision, and lack of execution on special teams. The least excusable to me are the defensive meltdowns, and that is where the Cowboys are not as talented as they have been in previous years. Even if they had just won two out of those four games we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Bullaholic]

For argument's sake, the Cowboys could've very easily been 12-4 this season had it not been for defensive meltdowns, a bonehead coaching decision, and lack of execution on special teams. The least excusable to me are the defensive meltdowns, and that is where the Cowboys are not as talented as they have been in previous years. Even if they had just won two out of those four games we wouldn't be having this conversation.

"There is iron in your words for all men to see"--Chief Ten Bears, in "The Outlaw Josie Wales"....

[Eagle 1]

So your saying he hasnt won a first round playoff and got destroyed in the second round? Thats exactly what happened two years ago. But as I have said before that is not on Romo. IF the defense would have finished two games we wouldnt be having the discussion of Romo missing the playoffs

So your saying that Denvers defense is better than Dallas?

[waterboy]

"There is iron in your words for all men to see"--Chief Ten Bears, in "The Outlaw Josie Wales"....
One of my all-time favorites movies!:clap:

[hollywood]

I need help remembering. Where was T Romo in his 2nd year in the NFL?

[GrTigers6]

If Frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their arses everytime they jumped!!!!

Really if you look at things from YOUR perspective you could say the defense was the reason the Cowboys didn't go 16-0. I mean the offense scored at least 1 point in every single game so if the damn defense had just held the lead we would have went undeated!Your absolutely right, but I figured that would be a little over the top!:D

[GrTigers6]

So your saying that Denvers defense is better than Dallas?Where did I say that?

[Cam]

man...all this Tebow talk.....wish he was a Cowboy.....I'd turn him into a TE or RB or something...boy is an athlete with some fire....he's infectious as this thread proves.......

[Old Tiger]

Here's the deal. The Broncos went on a 7-1 run when Tebow took over. That's where their season was made and I give him and the rest of the team credit for making it happen. But let's not act as if they played anyone of consequence.

Wins: Miami, Oak, KC, Jets (decent win), SD (good win), Minn, Chicago (with back up QB)
Losses: Det (playoff team),

Then they finished the season by getting drilled by NE and Buff and lost to a horrific KC team 7-3.

Wins

Miami: 6-10
KC: 7-9
Jets: 8-8
SD: 8-8
Minnesota: 3-13
Chicago: 8-8



His only good win was against Pittsburgh and they are the only team he won against that had a winning record. Dick LeBeau blew that game for the steelers with his stubborness to not change up the scheme. Playing 10 guys in the box and not adjusting.

He lost to the chiefs in the final game of the regular season. He didn't get his team to playoffs the Raiders got his team to the playoffs. He lost the final 4 of 5 games.

[Eagle 1]

Where did I say that?

Where did buffs say,"Romo didn't win a first round playoff and get destroyed in the second round?"
See how that works? You tried to put words in his mouth. :wave:

[Farmersfan]

Wins

Miami: 6-10
KC: 7-9
Jets: 8-8
SD: 8-8
Minnesota: 3-13
Chicago: 8-8



His only good win was against Pittsburgh and they are the only team he won against that had a winning record. Dick LeBeau blew that game for the steelers with his stubborness to not change up the scheme. Playing 10 guys in the box and not adjusting.

He lost to the chiefs in the final game of the regular season. He didn't get his team to playoffs the Raiders got his team to the playoffs. He lost the final 4 of 5 games.



Tony Romo wins this season:

Niners: 13-3
Skins': 5-11
Rams: 2-14
S'Hawks: 7-9
Bills: 6-10
Skins': 5-11
Dolphins: 6-10
Bucs: 4-12

The only team Romo beat with a winning record was the Niners early in the season without their #1 receiver. And he also lost the final 4 of 5 games. So how do the Romosexuals think Tebow did nothing special while they think Romo had a good season?

[Farmersfan]

I need help remembering. Where was T Romo in his 2nd year in the NFL?


On the bench!
He couldn't break the top 3 on the depth chart in favor of such greats as Chad, Drew, Vinny and Quincy Carter. It wasn't until the Cowboy put 11 Pro Bowlers on the roster that Romo "SUDDENLY" became good enough to get the starting job..........

[coach]

Tony Romo wins this season:

Niners: 13-3
Skins': 5-11
Rams: 2-14
S'Hawks: 7-9
Bills: 6-10
Skins': 5-11
Dolphins: 6-10
Bucs: 4-12

The only team Romo beat with a winning record was the Niners early in the season without their #1 receiver. And he also lost the final 4 of 5 games. So how do the Romosexuals think Tebow did nothing special while they think Romo had a good season?

tim tebow also lost 4-5 games lol

[Old Tiger]

Tony Romo wins this season:

Niners: 13-3
Skins': 5-11
Rams: 2-14
S'Hawks: 7-9
Bills: 6-10
Skins': 5-11
Dolphins: 6-10
Bucs: 4-12

The only team Romo beat with a winning record was the Niners early in the season without their #1 receiver. And he also lost the final 4 of 5 games. So how do the Romosexuals think Tebow did nothing special while they think Romo had a good season?


Speaking for just QB


4184 yards, 66.3%, 31 td, 10 int > 1729 yards, 46.5%, 12 td, 6 int

romo is 10x the QB Tebow is




Tebow had 14 turnovers in the 13 games he started. Romo had only 15 turnovers in 16 games.

[hollywood]

Which QB would you take to lead your team without knowing anything else about the 2 except for the following?

QB 1: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to 11-2 record that ended in the state playoffs. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a 13-2 record winning the state championship and was named his home states player of the year both his Jr and Sr years. Completed the state game with a broken leg.

QB 2: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to the state quarterfinals but was defeated after throwing an interception on a last minute come from behind drive. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a dissapointing 3-7 record and missed the playoffs. He was named all area QB for his passing stats.

You all know the cliche... proofs in the pudding?... well, the proofs in the pudding.

[Old Tiger]

Which QB would you take to lead your team without knowing anything else about the 2 except for the following?

QB 1: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to 11-2 record that ended in the state playoffs. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a 13-2 record winning the state championship and was named his home states player of the year both his Jr and Sr years. Completed the state game with a broken leg.

QB 2: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to the state quarterfinals but was defeated after throwing an interception on a last minute come from behind drive. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a dissapointing 3-7 record and missed the playoffs. He was named all area QB for his passing stats.

You all know the cliche... proofs in the pudding?... well, the proofs in the pudding.Your scenario has so many flaws and only draws a direct choice to one.

[buff4ever]

Which QB would you take to lead your team without knowing anything else about the 2 except for the following?

QB 1: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to 11-2 record that ended in the state playoffs. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a 13-2 record winning the state championship and was named his home states player of the year both his Jr and Sr years. Completed the state game with a broken leg.

QB 2: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to the state quarterfinals but was defeated after throwing an interception on a last minute come from behind drive. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a dissapointing 3-7 record and missed the playoffs. He was named all area QB for his passing stats.

I hope this isn't a trick question. I would probably pick qb #1. Hope that didn't back fire on me. To be honest I wouldn't want to pick a qb to lead my team with that little information. There are factors that would play into both of those situations. Now, just based on that info. #1 sounds like a tebow story and #2 sounds like a romo story. If you tell me that #2 is romo, I will be more concerned about him to know he has always thrown picks late in the big games.

Romo is a better qb, no doubt. However, I would rather go to battle with a tebow than a romo. Picking between tebow/romo would be easy for most probably. They would look at the stats qb stats and say, "no brainer, I'll take romo." But the leader and mentally tough fighter in Tebow makes that a tougher decision for me than most people probably, and I hate watching Tebow qb a offense at times.

[MGAR]

Which QB would you take to lead your team without knowing anything else about the 2 except for the following?

QB 1: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to 11-2 record that ended in the state playoffs. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a 13-2 record winning the state championship and was named his home states player of the year both his Jr and Sr years. Completed the state game with a broken leg.

QB 2: His Jr year in HS, he lead his team to the state quarterfinals but was defeated after throwing an interception on a last minute come from behind drive. In his Sr year, he lead his team to a dissapointing 3-7 record and missed the playoffs. He was named all area QB for his passing stats.

You all know the cliche... proofs in the pudding?... well, the proofs in the pudding.

Well.. I would take QB 1 but that doesn't mean I would take a Charlie Ward to QB the NFL team I like either..

[hollywood]

Your scenario has so many flaws and only draws a direct choice to one.

Of course... I know it's a silly comparison with just the tiny bit of information given, yet it's all information about 2 different QB's as high school players. I got it from the world wide web. Nothing more, nothing less. Sometimes, history proves out to be the present. ;)

[Farmersfan]

tim tebow also lost 4-5 games lol



Follow along Coach. I was showing someone else that was talking smack about Tebow that Romo's season mirrored Tebows almost exactly. Only difference was Tebow did it with a hell of a lot less talent.............

[hollywood]

Well.. I would take QB 1 but that doesn't mean I would take a Charlie Ward to QB the NFL team I like either..

I agree on both accounts.

Just shows how silly this thread has become. Trying to compare two different QB's in 2 different points of their careers is comical to say the least. :)

[Farmersfan]

Speaking for just QB


4184 yards, 66.3%, 31 td, 10 int > 1729 yards, 46.5%, 12 td, 6 int

romo is 10x the QB Tebow is




Tebow had 14 turnovers in the 13 games he started. Romo had only 15 turnovers in 16 games.



Yes, Yes and yes! And all this amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS! So the question still stands that do we want a QB that piles up a bunch of stats but can't win or can't motivate or a QB that puts up terrible stats but leads his teammates to play hard and still manages to win just as many games? The one true fact that we aren't considering is that Tony Romo has gotten as good as he will ever be and he won just 8 games and missed the playoffs. Tebow will get a lot better and he also won 8 games and advanced to the second round of the playoffs with a lot less talent. What are the odds that Romo can get even better? Seriously...........

[GrTigers6]

Yes, Yes and yes! And all this amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS! So the question still stands that do we want a QB that piles up a bunch of stats but can't win or can't motivate or a QB that puts up terrible stats but leads his teammates to play hard and still manages to win just as many games? The one true fact that we aren't considering is that Tony Romo has gotten as good as he will ever be and he won just 8 games and missed the playoffs. Tebow will get a lot better and he also won 8 games and advanced to the second round of the playoffs with a lot less talent. What are the odds that Romo can get even better? Seriously...........Technically Tebow only won 7 games, Orton won one

[GrTigers6]

Where did buffs say,"Romo didn't win a first round playoff and get destroyed in the second round?"
See how that works? You tried to put words in his mouth. :wave:

You are exactly right, and yet they made the playoffs, beat the steelers in the first round, got to play (and get arse kicked) in the second round of playoffs. Romo has had better talent, on both sides of the ball over all his years, and can't quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs.

Right there!
"and cant quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs"
Plain and simple

[GrTigers6]

Yes, Yes and yes! And all this amounted to EXACTLY THE SAME RESULTS! So the question still stands that do we want a QB that piles up a bunch of stats but can't win or can't motivate or a QB that puts up terrible stats but leads his teammates to play hard and still manages to win just as many games? The one true fact that we aren't considering is that Tony Romo has gotten as good as he will ever be and he won just 8 games and missed the playoffs. Tebow will get a lot better and he also won 8 games and advanced to the second round of the playoffs with a lot less talent. What are the odds that Romo can get even better? Seriously...........I will take a QB that produces Probowl type stats over one that shouldnt even be a qb in the league, anyday. Of the seven wins he has he was directly responsible for one of them. The others were all defense
which I might add is the exact opposite of what Romo accomplished this season

[Farmersfan]

I will take a QB that produces Probowl type stats over one that shouldnt even be a qb in the league, anyday. Of the seven wins he has he was directly responsible for one of them. The others were all defense
which I might add is the exact opposite of what Romo accomplished this season



Great response! Except Dallas had the better defense! Show me a single piece of evidence that the Denver defense performed better than the Dallas defense in ANY category. We've been through this before. So how does a QB that shouldn't even be a NFL QB lead a lesser talented team in a tougher schedule to the same win/loss record? Could it be that perhaps in all those games that Dallas lost by just a few points their field leader didn't provide enough to get them over the hump. If Romo had inspired like Tebow inspires this Cowboy team is 12-4 or better right now. Just the inspiration and leadership that Tebow provided has to be worth at least 4 wins for this Cowboy team. Hell they almost won 6 of the 8 loses even though they were a bunch of lackluster morons with little to no enthusiasm.

[GrTigers6]

Great response! Except Dallas had the better defense! Show me a single piece of evidence that the Denver defense performed better than the Dallas defense in ANY category. We've been through this before. So how does a QB that shouldn't even be a NFL QB lead a lesser talented team in a tougher schedule to the same win/loss record? Could it be that perhaps in all those games that Dallas lost by just a few points their field leader didn't provide enough to get them over the hump. If Romo had inspired like Tebow inspires this Cowboy team is 12-4 or better right now. Just the inspiration and leadership that Tebow provided has to be worth at least 4 wins for this Cowboy team. Hell they almost won 6 of the 8 loses even though they were a bunch of lackluster morons with little to no enthusiasm.Denvers defense held their opponents in most of those wins to 20 or less points. How many games did Romo lose where the defense held the opponent to 20 or less. I will tell you 2
Denver won 5 games when the defense held their opponents to 20 or less and loss 3 games with the same scenario.
Dallas won 6 games that his D held the opponents to under 20 but only three of those did the offense only score 20 or less.

[Txbroadcaster]

Great response! Except Dallas had the better defense! Show me a single piece of evidence that the Denver defense performed better than the Dallas defense in ANY category. We've been through this before. So how does a QB that shouldn't even be a NFL QB lead a lesser talented team in a tougher schedule to the same win/loss record? Could it be that perhaps in all those games that Dallas lost by just a few points their field leader didn't provide enough to get them over the hump. If Romo had inspired like Tebow inspires this Cowboy team is 12-4 or better right now. Just the inspiration and leadership that Tebow provided has to be worth at least 4 wins for this Cowboy team. Hell they almost won 6 of the 8 loses even though they were a bunch of lackluster morons with little to no enthusiasm.


Do you realy think the Denver D was inspired by Tebow?offense side yes I can see a QB inspiring, but the D I just dont see, those sides dont interact and come game time, when one side is playing, the other is on sideline being coached up

the D before Tebow played well agianst average to bad offenses, and struggled agianst good offenses...After Tebow the D played well agianst average to bad offenses and struggled agianst good ones...not much difference, but the apperances is they did.

[hollywood]

Facts:
Tebow is a champion
Romo is not

Tebow is on a HS all decade team
Romo is not

Tebow is a Heisman winner
Romo is not

Tebow has more to learn
Romo has learned all he can

Tebow has his whole career ahead of him
Romo has 2-3 years tops

Tebow has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 2 years in the NFL
Romo has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 9 years in the NFL

:D

[Bullaholic]

Facts:
Tebow is a champion
Romo is not

Tebow is on a HS all decade team
Romo is not

Tebow is a Heisman winner
Romo is not

Tebow has more to learn
Romo has learned all he can

Tebow has his whole career ahead of him
Romo has 2-3 years tops

Tebow has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 2 years in the NFL
Romo has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 9 years in the NFL

:D

Now hollywood, would you have thrown a "fox" like this into Brownwood's "henhouse" in one of last season's threads? :D

[Txbroadcaster]

Facts:
Tebow is a champion
Romo is not

Tebow is on a HS all decade team
Romo is not

Tebow is a Heisman winner
Romo is not

Tebow has more to learn
Romo has learned all he can

Tebow has his whole career ahead of him
Romo has 2-3 years tops

Tebow has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 2 years in the NFL
Romo has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 9 years in the NFL

:D

LOL HS and College accomplishments


BTW Romo won the Walter Payton Award which is the Heisman for his division

[Eagle 1]

Originally Posted by Eagle 1
Where did buffs say,"Romo didn't win a first round playoff and get destroyed in the second round?"
See how that works? You tried to put words in his mouth.
Originally Posted by buff4ever
You are exactly right, and yet they made the playoffs, beat the steelers in the first round, got to play (and get arse kicked) in the second round of playoffs. Romo has had better talent, on both sides of the ball over all his years, and can't quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs.



Right there!
"and cant quite say he has accomplished this much in the way of the playoffs"
Plain and simple


Not exactly, but if it makes you feel better to think that is what he said, then so be it. :)

[Eagle 1]

LOL HS and College accomplishments


BTW Romo won the Walter Payton Award which is the Heisman for his division

Like I said on another thread, I never even heard of Romo until he became a 3rd back up on the Cowboys.
Seriously.

[Txbroadcaster]

Like I said on another thread, I never even heard of Romo until he became a 3rd back up on the Cowboys.
Seriously.

I dont think anyone had outside of DII fans and scouts..just shows how good a job Sean Payton did( and it helped he was Alumni if the college Romo played for of course)

[Farmersfan]

Do you realy think the Denver D was inspired by Tebow?offense side yes I can see a QB inspiring, but the D I just dont see, those sides dont interact and come game time, when one side is playing, the other is on sideline being coached up

the D before Tebow played well agianst average to bad offenses, and struggled agianst good offenses...After Tebow the D played well agianst average to bad offenses and struggled agianst good ones...not much difference, but the apperances is they did.


Denver winning percentage before Tebow= .166
Denver winning percentage after Tebow = .636

You guys who are discrediting Tebow and defending Romo are not only arguing with the rest of us but you are arguing with each other.

Was it the Denver D that caused the turnaround?
Was it the Denver O that caused the turnaround?
Coaches?
Cheerleaders?
Did the ghost of John Elway's ego help them get over the hump.

Whatever the reason you think was responsible for it there can't be any doubt the results improved greatly. My opinion is that although Tebow isn't close to Romo in QB ability he is twice the athlete and way, way, way better at getting his supporting cast to buy into his schtick. His charisma can't be denied. Any other person who flaunted their religion as openly as Tebow would be crucified by everyone if they didn't have Tebow's charisma and leadership abiltiy. And even Tebow will suffer the wrath of the fans if he stops getting improved result from his team. And YES I certainly think a QB can and does inspire greater defensive play. Especially at the NFL levels. Don't kid yourself TXB! These players that make millions of dollars to play this game make business decisions all day long. Defensive players who don't have faith that their QB or offense can get it done will not sell out to get their jobs done. People jumped all over the Terrence Newman is too old bandwagon because of his play this season. But his bad play was almost entirely between the ears. He didn't care. He has been part of the most underachieving team in the history of the NFL. He has repeatedly seen his teammates (Tony Romo included) piss away opportunity after opportunity to advance in the playoffs and do something special. He has made some very costly mistakes himself at crucial times the past couple of years. With the culture and leadership in Valley Ranch thses days there is no accountability so a player who doesn't give 100% isn't dealt with. The only motivation these players now have is contract and when they already have that big contract then WINNING is the only motivation that will affect them. And this team hasn't been winning.......

[Farmersfan]

Facts:
Tebow is a champion
Romo is not

Tebow is on a HS all decade team
Romo is not

Tebow is a Heisman winner
Romo is not

Tebow has more to learn
Romo has learned all he can

Tebow has his whole career ahead of him
Romo has 2-3 years tops

Tebow has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 2 years in the NFL
Romo has accomplished 1 playoff win for the team he leads in 9 years in the NFL

:D



It's called Pedigree Hollywood. Tebow has it-Romo doesn't! It is very rare that a player will come from nowhere and become a champion at the NFL level. It has happened of course but for every 1 that does it there are 1000s who don't.
In my opinion the difference in winners and losers at the highest level is between the ears. This is where I honestly believe Romo falls short. TXB made a comparison between Tebow telling the world that his football playing would serve a higher purpose after a completely unexpected successful season to Romo telling the world that if losing was the worst thing to happen to him he would have lived a good life after one of the worst underachievements in the history of the game. One player proved to the world he has a higher desire and is inspired to do better while the other is telling the world to get off his back because losing isn't that big a deal in the overall scheme of things. One player will go on to greatness and the other will continue to underachieve just like he has done his entire life!

[coach]

dude just stop it. you are making no sense. you are making a fool of yourself.

[buff4ever]

It's called Pedigree Hollywood. Tebow has it-Romo doesn't! It is very rare that a player will come from nowhere and become a champion at the NFL level. It has happened of course but for every 1 that does it there are 1000s who don't.
In my opinion the difference in winners and losers at the highest level is between the ears. This is where I honestly believe Romo falls short. TXB made a comparison between Tebow telling the world that his football playing would serve a higher purpose after a completely unexpected successful season to Romo telling the world that if losing was the worst thing to happen to him he would have lived a good life after one of the worst underachievements in the history of the game. One player proved to the world he has a higher desire and is inspired to do better while the other is telling the world to get off his back because losing isn't that big a deal in the overall scheme of things. One player will go on to greatness and the other will continue to underachieve just like he has done his entire life!


It is hard for the fans that want to win a superbowl right now to realize this. They don't feel that a qb is available right now that can get us to the superbowl next year, so they want to hope what you are saying isn't fact, and that romo can win the superbowl next year. They fear you are right, but they HOPE to hell not. Where as I feel that the cowboys need to get him a back up that we think we can work in, or get a qb to replace him and lead this team immediately (less likely to be possible vs first option is more possible). Orton was probably a better qb mechanically than tebow, but Denver needed someone that they could believe in and play hard for. I have fealt for a while that Dallas needs that same thing, a change at the qb position to install a confidence and trust thing in the WHOLE TEAM.

Mac & TXB hate this attitude, I personally think that they fear it more than anything. They try and shoot down TEBOW because his scenario only supports FF's theory and mine.

[CenTexSports]

The argument for Tebow (who I admire greatly for his character and hope he is successful) are the same ones that made the argument for Vince Young. Bottom line is that only 1 out of 1000 non-traditional QB's can be or will be a success in the NFL. If you seriously would take Tebow over Romo if you owned a NFL team you are either fooling yourself or don't understand the mechanics of the position.

A successful NFL QB must have four of the following five plus one attribute.
1) Size (Doug Flutie the exception)
2) Intelligence (Vince Young)
3) Mobility (Dan Marino)
4) Leadership (Romo)
5) Vision

The plus one is a throwing motion that is quick, accurate, and strong. This is where Young and Tebow fall short. Can HEART overcome this failure for Tebow; maybe. But to put him ahead of Romo is wishful thinking.

[Farmersfan]

dude just stop it. you are making no sense. you are making a fool of yourself.



I thought we kicked you off the porch coach! We proved you can't hang with the big dogs so your place is under the porch with the pups! SEE YA! :wave:

[Txbroadcaster]

It is hard for the fans that want to win a superbowl right now to realize this. They don't feel that a qb is available right now that can get us to the superbowl next year, so they want to hope what you are saying isn't fact, and that romo can win the superbowl next year. They fear you are right, but they HOPE to hell not. Where as I feel that the cowboys need to get him a back up that we think we can work in, or get a qb to replace him and lead this team immediately (less likely to be possible vs first option is more possible). Orton was probably a better qb mechanically than tebow, but Denver needed someone that they could believe in and play hard for. I have fealt for a while that Dallas needs that same thing, a change at the qb position to install a confidence and trust thing in the WHOLE TEAM.

Mac & TXB hate this attitude, I personally think that they fear it more than anything. They try and shoot down TEBOW because his scenario only supports FF's theory and mine.


Why do you always try to act like I am afraid of anything your saying LOL..makes it seem more like your worried

I am not a Romo lover, All I have ever said and stuck to it is this...He is good enough with the right team to win a SB..the crap he gets for the failure of Dallas as a team gets a little stupid sometime as people try to find reasons why they dont think he will win( hat backwards, does not yell on sidelines etc etc)

He is what he is a top 10 QB in the league right now who played top 5 since 2009.

[GrTigers6]

It's called Pedigree Hollywood. Tebow has it-Romo doesn't! It is very rare that a player will come from nowhere and become a champion at the NFL level. It has happened of course but for every 1 that does it there are 1000s who don't.
In my opinion the difference in winners and losers at the highest level is between the ears. This is where I honestly believe Romo falls short. TXB made a comparison between Tebow telling the world that his football playing would serve a higher purpose after a completely unexpected successful season to Romo telling the world that if losing was the worst thing to happen to him he would have lived a good life after one of the worst underachievements in the history of the game. One player proved to the world he has a higher desire and is inspired to do better while the other is telling the world to get off his back because losing isn't that big a deal in the overall scheme of things. One player will go on to greatness and the other will continue to underachieve just like he has done his entire life!If Romo underachieved, He would have not gone to college, he would not have gained all the awards in college and definetly would not be the QB for the Dallas Cowboys.
And as I have said before about that statement it was made afetr an embarrasing loss and when he probably didnt want to speak to the media. But in the true scheme of life, He is absolutely right so why you think he is underachiever because he made that statement is just beyond me. Or maybe thats what makes you feel better about your assesment.:D

[Bullaholic]

Tony Romo is going to be out playing golf with Tiger Woods, again. Shouldn't he be studying game film over at Farmer's house for next season or something, instead? :D

[Eagle 1]

The argument for Tebow (who I admire greatly for his character and hope he is successful) are the same ones that made the argument for Vince Young. Bottom line is that only 1 out of 1000 non-traditional QB's can be or will be a success in the NFL. If you seriously would take Tebow over Romo if you owned a NFL team you are either fooling yourself or don't understand the mechanics of the position.

A successful NFL QB must have four of the following five plus one attribute.
1) Size (Doug Flutie the exception)
2) Intelligence (Vince Young)
3) Mobility (Dan Marino)
4) Leadership (Romo)
5) Vision

The plus one is a throwing motion that is quick, accurate, and strong. This is where Young and Tebow fall short. Can HEART overcome this failure for Tebow; maybe. But to put him ahead of Romo is wishful thinking.


1) Size ...Drew Brees
2) Itelligence...Vince Young? The Wonderlic genius? You got to be kidding...LOL
3) Mobility...Roger Staubach. Roger the dodger.
4) Leadership...Brett Favre
5) Vision... Tom Brady

Romo couldn't lead flies to feces.
I'll give him the "accuracy throw", but the problem is his bonehead decisions "accurately" throws a pass to the opposing teams defense.

[Txbroadcaster]

1) Size ...Drew Brees
2) Itelligence...Vince Young? The Wonderlic genius? You got to be kidding...LOL
3) Mobility...Roger Staubach. Roger the dodger.
4) Leadership...Brett Favre
5) Vision... Tom Brady

Romo couldn't lead flies to feces.
I'll give him the "accuracy throw", but the problem is his bonehead decisions "accurately" throws a pass to the opposing teams defense.

I think he was listing the supposed players with those attributes as negative

[Farmersfan]

The argument for Tebow (who I admire greatly for his character and hope he is successful) are the same ones that made the argument for Vince Young. Bottom line is that only 1 out of 1000 non-traditional QB's can be or will be a success in the NFL. If you seriously would take Tebow over Romo if you owned a NFL team you are either fooling yourself or don't understand the mechanics of the position.

A successful NFL QB must have four of the following five plus one attribute.
1) Size (Doug Flutie the exception)
2) Intelligence (Vince Young)
3) Mobility (Dan Marino)
4) Leadership (Romo)
5) Vision

The plus one is a throwing motion that is quick, accurate, and strong. This is where Young and Tebow fall short. Can HEART overcome this failure for Tebow; maybe. But to put him ahead of Romo is wishful thinking.



You kind of contradict yourself Centexsports! You post in a manner that leads us to understand that anyone who picks Tebow over Romo doesn't know football and then you go on to explain how Tebow and Romo have the exact same number of defieciencies in their game. And wouldn't the importance a person placed on these "Plus ones" determine which player is more valuable. We have seen 6 years of what Romo's skills + weaknesses can provide here in Dallas. And we just witnessed what Tebow's could do in Denver. A 8-8 season is a 8-8 season regardless of how a team gets there. The question remains how did Denver achieve a 8-8 season with a lesser QB and lesser talent than Dallas did with Romo? All the excuses put forth by many have been shot down in a flaming heap. Some think the Denver defense was the reason but we proved the Denver defense wasn't very good. Some said it was the weak schedule of the AFC West but once again we proved the AFC West actually played a tougher schedule regardless of what criteria you measure it by. Denver played 5 common opponents with the Cowboys and each team went 2-3 against those opponents. I have admitted many times that the Broncos weren't as good as the Cowboys and didn't have near the talent that Dallas has. So what was the defining difference between these two teams? It's only speculation and opinion but all evidence leads to "The QB"! So again I ask, What if "leadership" can be proven to be more valuable to a NFL franchise like Dallas than those other Plus-one's that you posted? Would Tebow then a better choice?

[hollywood]

Now hollywood, would you have thrown a "fox" like this into Brownwood's "henhouse" in one of last season's threads? :D
:stirpot:

[hollywood]

LOL HS and College accomplishments


BTW Romo won the Walter Payton Award which is the Heisman for his division

Don't forget the professional accomplishment at the bottom. ;)

Just proving that there really isn't a reason to compare the 2 QB's. It's like the apples to oranges cliche. I good friend of mine, who's a Romosexual, tries to start this debate all the time. Why? I guess because of the hype the media is putting on Tebow and has put on Romo in the past. But maybe it's because of Romo's/Cowboys' sub par performance over the last few seasons has got him flustered. I just mention to him that Tebow is a great competitor and he goes off. Comical. It's even getting to the point where I can start to say a word that starts with a "T", and his face turns red! :D

Wonder what Romo thinks of Tebow? That would be an interesting conversation.

[Farmersfan]

If Romo underachieved, He would have not gone to college, he would not have gained all the awards in college and definetly would not be the QB for the Dallas Cowboys.
And as I have said before about that statement it was made afetr an embarrasing loss and when he probably didnt want to speak to the media. But in the true scheme of life, He is absolutely right so why you think he is underachiever because he made that statement is just beyond me. Or maybe thats what makes you feel better about your assesment.:D



So "splain me this GrTigers6! Tony Romo has proven to have the skills that are required to play QB at the NFL level. Those skills don't magically appear once he leaves college and gets into the pros. Tony Romo was not sitting 4th on the
depth chart for the Dallas Cowboy's bench and then suddenly the "Talent Fairy" flies by and grants him the physical skills to get it done. He has had these physical skills his entire adult life. Yet his college and early Pro career indicates he is a below average QB. TXB indicated that Sean Peyton did a great job in finding Romo but I argue that every scout in the NFL knew of Romo but didn't give much credence to his skill set. So we have a NFL caliber QB that wasn't even on the radar of good college teams. Isn't that the epitome of a underachiever? A college QB with NFL skill sets that performs at a level that earns him a spot on a no-name college and allows him to go undrafted.................. Seriously? How much evidence of a lack of competitive fire do you need? If it isn't his competitive fire then it has to be his mental aspect of the game. Either way I have been correct for years about Tony Romo! Ton's of skills and still will never be a consistently winning QB.

[Farmersfan]

Don't forget the professional accomplishment at the bottom. ;)

Just proving that there really isn't a reason to compare the 2 QB's. It's like the apples to oranges cliche. I good friend of mine, who's a Romosexual, tries to start this debate all the time. Why? I guess because of the hype the media is putting on Tebow and has put on Romo in the past. But maybe it's because of Romo's/Cowboys' sub par performance over the last few seasons has got him flustered. I just mention to him that Tebow is a great competitor and he goes off. Comical. It's even getting to the point where I can start to say a word that starts with a "T", and his face turns red! :D

Wonder what Romo thinks of Tebow? That would be an interesting conversation.


I have plenty of those friends too! They have defended Romo so much over the last couple of years that they immediately get angry if someone brings it up. Some of them even stopped listening to talk radio because of how often they question Romo's ability or leadership to win with this team. I use to be one of them, believe it or not! I was the one who was arguing in favor of Romo his first couple of seasons. I refused to believe these things that people were saying about him. I'm admittedly one of the most hardheaded people you could ever want to meet but even I saw the writing on the wall 3 years ago. At some point Romo has to be expected to get the most out of the talent that has been put around him. So far the only thing he has been able to use that talent for is padding his own stats..................

[GrTigers6]

So "splain me this GrTigers6! Tony Romo has proven to have the skills that are required to play QB at the NFL level. Those skills don't magically appear once he leaves college and gets into the pros. Tony Romo was not sitting 4th on the
depth chart for the Dallas Cowboy's bench and then suddenly the "Talent Fairy" flies by and grants him the physical skills to get it done. He has had these physical skills his entire adult life. Yet his college and early Pro career indicates he is a below average QB. TXB indicated that Sean Peyton did a great job in finding Romo but I argue that every scout in the NFL knew of Romo but didn't give much credence to his skill set. So we have a NFL caliber QB that wasn't even on the radar of good college teams. Isn't that the epitome of a underachiever? A college QB with NFL skill sets that performs at a level that earns him a spot on a no-name college and allows him to go undrafted.................. Seriously? How much evidence of a lack of competitive fire do you need? If it isn't his competitive fire then it has to be his mental aspect of the game. Either way I have been correct for years about Tony Romo! Ton's of skills and still will never be a consistently winning QB.When you lose a game that you played with a 141 QB rating is exactly what explains to me that he is not a underachiever but one of our best players and having some more support on offense and a better defense would be right in the mix of the elite teams still playing now.
And that wasnt just a one game thing. it happened all year where romo played well but everyone else didnt. And all the leadership in the would wouldnt help our secondary. they would still suck

[GrTigers6]

I have plenty of those friends too! They have defended Romo so much over the last couple of years that they immediately get angry if someone brings it up. Some of them even stopped listening to talk radio because of how often they question Romo's ability or leadership to win with this team. I use to be one of them, believe it or not! I was the one who was arguing in favor of Romo his first couple of seasons. I refused to believe these things that people were saying about him. I'm admittedly one of the most hardheaded people you could ever want to meet but even I saw the writing on the wall 3 years ago. At some point Romo has to be expected to get the most out of the talent that has been put around him. So far the only thing he has been able to use that talent for is padding his own stats..................Oh so you consider me a friend! How nice!:D

[Txbroadcaster]

Seriously? How much evidence of a lack of competitive fire do you need? If it isn't his competitive fire then it has to be his mental aspect of the game. Either way I have been correct for years about Tony Romo! Ton's of skills and still will never be a consistently winning QB.

Actually Denver offered Romo 100,000 UFA contract but he picked Dallas( and I think I read right there were 7 teams after him very hard)


Except he has consistenly won, you can argue the play offs and have SOME validity, but to act like Romo has not been a winner to this point in his career is wrong IMO

[Eagle 1]

Actually Denver offered Romo 100,000 UFA contract but he picked Dallas( and I think I read right there were 7 teams after him very hard)


Except he has consistenly won, you can argue the play offs and have SOME validity, but to act like Romo has not been a winner to this point in his career is wrong IMO

What is Romo's record at Dallas?

[Txbroadcaster]

What is Romo's record at Dallas?

47-30

[Farmersfan]

What is Romo's record at Dallas?



1 Great season of 13-3.

8-8 the last year.
9-14 the last 2 seasons.
20-19 the last 3 seasons.
27-25 the last 4 seasons.

Our franchise QB is 2 games over .500 the past 4 seasons. yea, let's call him a winner.

[waterboy]

It doesn't matter any way you look at it. There will be those Romo bashers who will blame him for the lack of success of the Cowboy team, and there will always be those Romosexuals that will defend him. I am neither, by the way, but in reality, the blame, or praise, should not be on one player either way. Football is a TEAM sport, either your TEAM is successful, or your TEAM is not. The blame should be spread out over the 53-player roster, and the coaching staff instead of raking one player over the coals. If the TEAM has the leadership on the field, the TEAM chemistry is right, the players are on the same page as to what they are doing on the field, and they have the character, talent and coaching to get it done, they will be successful. Without all of these parts a TEAM will continue to underachieve. It doesn't matter who that team is.

[Txbroadcaster]

1 Great season of 13-3.

8-8 the last year.
9-14 the last 2 seasons.
20-19 the last 3 seasons.
27-25 the last 4 seasons.

Our franchise QB is 2 games over .500 the past 4 seasons. yea, let's call him a winner.


actually 28-23 over last 4..and kind of proves the whole point that pinning it on the QB is stupid seeing he has played his best football over those 4 years

and I love how you dismiss the 11-5

[Farmersfan]

Actually Denver offered Romo 100,000 UFA contract but he picked Dallas( and I think I read right there were 7 teams after him very hard)

All these are Undraft FA offers TXB. It cost them nothing if the player doesn't work out. So apparently they didn't see enough from Romo to risk a draft pick (even a 7th rounder) but they would risk zero money to see if he could up his game.



Except he has consistenly won, you can argue the play offs and have SOME validity, but to act like Romo has not been a winner to this point in his career is wrong IMO

Consistently won? 8-8 this season. 1-6 last season. 2 games over .500 in the past 4 seasons. Is that your definition of consistency?

[Txbroadcaster]

All these are Undraft FA offers TXB. It cost them nothing if the player doesn't work out. So apparently they didn't see enough from Romo to risk a draft pick (even a 7th rounder) but they would risk zero money to see if he could up his game.




Consistently won? 8-8 this season. 1-6 last season. 2 games over .500 in the past 4 seasons. Is that your definition of consistency?


I define it by the body of his career..47-30

[buff4ever]

It doesn't matter any way you look at it. There will be those Romo bashers who will blame him for the lack of success of the Cowboy team, and there will always be those Romosexuals that will defend him. I am neither, by the way, but in reality, the blame, or praise, should not be on one player either way. Football is a TEAM sport, either your TEAM is successful, or your TEAM is not. The blame should be spread out over the 53-player roster, and the coaching staff instead of raking one player over the coals. If the TEAM has the leadership on the field, the TEAM chemistry is right, the players are on the same page as to what they are doing on the field, and they have the character, talent and coaching to get it done, they will be successful. Without all of these parts a TEAM will continue to underachieve. It doesn't matter who that team is.

I personally think that the lack of leadership and chemistry on this team has a lot to do with ROMO. The examples are endless and I don't have time or even want to list them all. They seemed more inspired w/o him last year for starters, being on different pages of the playbook shows a lack of chemistry, and on and on and on. But you are mostly right, I just don't think the team is that far away from being a lot better than they are. They just need these two things, which I think will make them work and play harder, and then results will appear instantly.

[buff4ever]

There are few coaches that can be expected to be the inspiration, peer leader, and chemistry guy; so you have to count on a team leader to step up. One recent example is Harbaugh in SF. I think from last year to this year, SF plays inspired ball, and alex smith did not do as much as harbaugh to make this swing. Smith is playing better, and the team seems to respect him more, but something else has happened. Romo has been playing better in yall's eyes, and yet the rest of the team isn't falling in and playing inspired hard working football. Garrett doesn't seem to be able to do it, so it has to happen at the peer level in my opinion.

[Eagle 1]

I define it by the body of his career..47-30

Which don't even put him in the top 5 Dallas qb's.

1. Troy Aikman
2. Roger Stuabach
3. Don Meredith
4. Danny White
5. Craig Morton

just saying.....

[Farmersfan]

actually 28-23 over last 4..and kind of proves the whole point that pinning it on the QB is stupid seeing he has played his best football over those 4 years

and I love how you dismiss the 11-5


I don't think anyone has "pinned" it on the QB TXB. Quite the opposite. Most of us have admitted the entire team has sucked. Yet some of us have never put any blame on Romo. that is the problem. Romo is at least an equal reason fo rthis team's lack of longterm success yet the Romosexuals tend to refuse to acknowledge any blame for Romo. If for no other reason than the lack of leadership I think Romo deserves a portion of the blame. But then add in all his untimely turnovers and failures to succeed at the most important moments and you have a good QB who has a tendancy to lose!

[Farmersfan]

I define it by the body of his career..47-30


That's all fine and dandy TXB except the "body of his career" is slowly going into the crapper with each passing season. Did he overachieve greatly in his 13-3 season or has he underachieved for the rest of his career?

[Txbroadcaster]

Which don't even put him in the top 5 Dallas qb's.

1. Troy Aikman
2. Roger Stuabach
3. Don Meredith
4. Danny White
5. Craig Morton

just saying.....

Morton at Dallas was 33-20
Meredith was 48-33

White underrated

Aikman and Staubach HOF..so what is your comparision?

I never said Romo was a HOF

[Txbroadcaster]

That's all fine and dandy TXB except the "body of his career" is slowly going into the crapper with each passing season. Did he overachieve greatly in his 13-3 season or has he underachieved for the rest of his career?

or maybe the team around him IS NOT AS GOOD since 2007..simple as that..by your account anyone who played in 2007 for the Cowboys and are on the team now show no ability to win

[Farmersfan]

or maybe the team around him IS NOT AS GOOD since 2007..simple as that..by your account anyone who played in 2007 for the Cowboys and are on the team now show no ability to win



And that is a subjective measurement based on end results. 13-3 vs 8-8 tells us that team was a lot better. Now we are back to square one with a discussion as to WHY that team performed better than this team.

[Txbroadcaster]

And that is a subjective measurement based on end results. 13-3 vs 8-8 tells us that team was a lot better. Now we are back to square one with a discussion as to WHY that team performed better than this team.

that team "performed" better because it was better than this year plus had alot of things go its way..seeing as Romo had a better year this year than that year shows me the team around him this year simply not that good..age, lack of depth and lack of talent this year showed itself in key moments

[GrTigers6]

And that is a subjective measurement based on end results. 13-3 vs 8-8 tells us that team was a lot better. Now we are back to square one with a discussion as to WHY that team performed better than this team.That team performed better because they had the number 2 defense in the nfl. What we have been trying to say all year. If we had a good defense, Cowboys would have been 12-4 or so and in contension for the super bowl.

[Farmersfan]

that team "performed" better because it was better than this year plus had alot of things go its way..seeing as Romo had a better year this year than that year shows me the team around him this year simply not that good..age, lack of depth and lack of talent this year showed itself in key moments



Once again you make excuses for underachievement by claiming a lack of talent. Lets see who you would choose: The first group listed is from 07' and the second is this season. No doubt this year's group performed way worst but the question is why? Less talent? I don't agree............

RB= Barber/J. Jones or Murray/ F. Jones
DB=Hamlin, R. Williams, J. Reeves, T. Newman, A. Henry, P. Watkins or T. Newman, M. Jenkins, J. Elam, G. Sensabaugh, O. Scandrick.
LB= Ware, James, Carpenter, Ellis, Spencer, Burnett, Ayodele or Ware, James, Lee, Spencer, Brooking, Carter
Receivers= Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Witten, Austin, Fasano or Bryant, Austin, Witten, Robinson, Olgeltree , Bennett
DL=Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Johnson or Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Coleman, Lissamore(?)
OL=Adams, Colombo, Davis, Gurode, Kosier or Costa, Holland, Smith, Free, Kosier,


If you are honest you will find that you would choose just as many players from this roster as you would that roster. The O-line seemed to play much worst this season with the rookies but other than that I don't see a big drop in talent. I do however see a big drop in effort and execution.............

[Old Tiger]

I don't know what the bigger joke is here FF or FF.

[Txbroadcaster]

Once again you make excuses for underachievement by claiming a lack of talent. Lets see who you would choose: The first group listed is from 07' and the second is this season. No doubt this year's group performed way worst but the question is why? Less talent? I don't agree............

RB= Barber/J. Jones or Murray/ F. Jones
DB=Hamlin, R. Williams, J. Reeves, T. Newman, A. Henry, P. Watkins or T. Newman, M. Jenkins, J. Elam, G. Sensabaugh, O. Scandrick.
LB= Ware, James, Carpenter, Ellis, Spencer, Burnett, Ayodele or Ware, James, Lee, Spencer, Brooking, Carter
Receivers= Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Witten, Austin, Fasano or Bryant, Austin, Witten, Robinson, Olgeltree , Bennett
DL=Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Johnson or Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Coleman, Lissamore(?)
OL=Adams, Colombo, Davis, Gurode, Kosier or Costa, Holland, Smith, Free, Kosier,


If you are honest you will find that you would choose just as many players from this roster as you would that roster. The O-line seemed to play much worst this season with the rookies but other than that I don't see a big drop in talent. I do however see a big drop in effort and execution.............

uhh no I would not

[Farmersfan]

That team performed better because they had the number 2 defense in the nfl. What we have been trying to say all year. If we had a good defense, Cowboys would have been 12-4 or so and in contension for the super bowl.



Actually they had the #3 OFFENSE in the NFL and the #9 defense. That defense had 4 more sacks for the season and 4 more interceptions vs this year's defense. They allowed 20.3 points per game in 07' and 21.7 this season. They gave up 308 yards per game in 07' and 343 this season. They gave up 213 YPG passing in 07' and 244 YPG passing this year. In 07' the defense gave up 95 YPG rushing and 99 yards this season.

On offense the 07' team averaged 28.4 pts a game compared to 23 this season. In 07' they rushed for 109 YPG which was #19 in the league and passed for 257 which was #4. This season they rushed for 113 YPG and passed for 262 YPG.

So as you can see the defensive stats aren't much different than in 07' so you can stop with all the blame on the defense. The offense is actually basically the same also. The big difference is the record! And Dallas had one of the easiest schedules this season. To me this all comes right back to leadership.............

[GrTigers6]

Actually they had the #3 OFFENSE in the NFL and the #9 defense. That defense had 4 more sacks for the season and 4 more interceptions vs this year's defense. They allowed 20.3 points per game in 07' and 21.7 this season. They gave up 308 yards per game in 07' and 343 this season. They gave up 213 YPG passing in 07' and 244 YPG passing this year. In 07' the defense gave up 95 YPG rushing and 99 yards this season.

On offense the 07' team averaged 28.4 pts a game compared to 23 this season. In 07' they rushed for 109 YPG which was #19 in the league and passed for 257 which was #4. This season they rushed for 113 YPG and passed for 262 YPG.

So as you can see the defensive stats aren't much different than in 07' so you can stop with all the blame on the defense. The offense is actually basically the same also. The big difference is the record! And Dallas had one of the easiest schedules this season. To me this all comes right back to leadership.............Well you just proved my point. The cowboys had how many games lost within 7 points? So that difference was the key to those losses.

[Farmersfan]

I don't know what the bigger joke is here FF or FF.



I guess this means you "got nothing"!

[Farmersfan]

Well you just proved my point. The cowboys had how many games lost within 7 points? So that difference was the key to those losses.



Man, you guys are like babysitting deaf little monkeys! The defense was 1 (ONE) point per game better in 07' when this team went 13-3. The offense was 5.5 point better in 07' and you claim that proves this season was the defenses fault. If the defense performed EXACTLY like that 07' defense this team still loses 8 games.

[Farmersfan]

uhh no I would not



Break it down then TXB. Tell us all the players from 07' that you would chose over the 2011 players. Of course I know the same player that is 4 years younger is a given. But what about the rest?

[GrTigers6]

Man, you guys are like babysitting deaf little monkeys! The defense was 1 (ONE) point per game better in 07' when this team went 13-3. The offense was 5.5 point better in 07' and you claim that proves this season was the defenses fault. If the defense performed EXACTLY like that 07' defense this team still loses 8 games.No because that defense could hold a lead!!!!!

[buff4ever]

Well you just proved my point. The cowboys had how many games lost within 7 points? So that difference was the key to those losses.

Wow, I have said it before, sometimes you defend romo so blindly that you totally don't even get FF's great points. You allow them to go right over your head, I am hoping on purpose so that you can continue to play dumb and defend blindly. This response, ranks right up there with some of your worst ever.

[GrTigers6]

Wow, I have said it before, sometimes you defend romo so blindly that you totally don't even get FF's great points. You allow them to go right over your head, I am hoping on purpose so that you can continue to play dumb and defend blindly. This response, ranks right up there with some of your worst ever.That would be a fair statement if Farmerfan made a legitimate point, but he doesnt. Just like you he is more against romo than we are for him.

[OldNavy]

http://www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/headlines/20120115-eminem-is-a-frustrated-cowboys-fan-thinks-tony-romo-can-take-team-to-super-bowl.ece

This should settle it. Eminem says Romo can take the Cowboys to the Super-bowl.
I'm sure he knows, he has even jet Jerry Jones, so it must be true.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but on one point I would like to know, if Romo is an under achiever, what the heck do that make the rest of us?

[Eagle 1]

Morton at Dallas was 33-20
Meredith was 48-33

White underrated

Aikman and Staubach HOF..so what is your comparision?

I never said Romo was a HOF

Winning percentage/playoff wins....stuff like that.....like the REST of the world. :wave:
------------------------------------------

Edit to add:

1. Troy Aikman (1989-2001)
Troy Aikman was drafted as the number one overall pick in the 1989 draft. Aikman suffered through a miserable 1-15 season as a rookie. The beating he took during his rookie season probably led to his injury problems later in his career. He holds the record for the most win in a decade, winning 90 games during the 1990s. He led the Cowboys to three Super Bowls in a four year period, winning all three of them. He was the MVP of Super Bowl XXVII. Aikman has the highest completion percentage in the history of the Super Bowl, completing 70% of his passes. Aikman’s overall post season record is 11-5.

I know many people would pick Roger Staubach as the better quarterback. Staubach was known as “Captain Comeback” for leading the Cowboys to 23 come from behind victories in the fourth quarter. Aikman didn’t need to lead many fourth quarter comebacks because he took care of business during the first three quarters of the game. And his 3-0 record in the Super Bowl also gives him the edge over Staubach.


2. Roger Staubach (1969-1979)
Roger Staubach was drafted in the tenth round in the 1964 draft. He had a five year commitment to the Navy after leaving the Naval Academy and most teams didn’t want to wait five years so the Cowboys were able to get him in the tenth round. Staubach led the Cowboys to four Super Bowls, winning two of them. During Staubach’s career he led the Cowboys to six NFC championship games, winning four of them. Staubach’s career record in the post season was 11-6, including 2-2 in the Super Bowl. He was the MVP of Super Bowl VI when the Cowboys defeated the Miami Dolphins 24-3. Staubach was the highest rated passer in the NFL four times. When he retired he was the highest rated passer of all time.


3. Don Meredith (1960-1968)
Meredith is probably best known for his work on Monday Night Football. Like Aikman, he started his career playing on some bad Cowboy teams. By the mid-1960s the Cowboys were winning. Meredith never led the Cowboys to a Super Bowl. He was the Cowboys quarterback during the “Ice Bowl” in 1967, losing 21-17 to the Packers for the right to go to Super Bowl II. The Cowboys also lost the previous year to the Packers for the right to go to the first Super Bowl.

4. Danny White (1976-1988)
Danny White had the misfortune of following Roger Staubach. He could never escape from the shadow of “Captain Comeback”. He did lead the Cowboys to three consecutive NFC championship games during the 1980-1982 seasons, losing all three games. He holds the team record for most touchdown passes in a season (29) and most passing yards in a season (3980). He was benched and replaced with Gary Hogeboom in 1984. He regained the starting job but lost it again to Steve Pelleur in 1987 and never regained the starting job again. He was cut shortly after the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman.


5. Craig Morton (1965-1974)
Craig Morton led the Cowboys to the Super Bowl after the 1970, losing to the Colts 16-13 on a last second field goal. He threw two fourth quarter interceptions that many believe are largely responsible for the Cowboys losing the game. He was replaced by Roger Staubach in 1971. He was later traded after the 1974 season. He lost the Super Bowl again, this time throwing four interceptions against the Cowboys in Super Bowl XXII.

[Eagle 1]

Actually they had the #3 OFFENSE in the NFL and the #9 defense. That defense had 4 more sacks for the season and 4 more interceptions vs this year's defense. They allowed 20.3 points per game in 07' and 21.7 this season. They gave up 308 yards per game in 07' and 343 this season. They gave up 213 YPG passing in 07' and 244 YPG passing this year. In 07' the defense gave up 95 YPG rushing and 99 yards this season.

On offense the 07' team averaged 28.4 pts a game compared to 23 this season. In 07' they rushed for 109 YPG which was #19 in the league and passed for 257 which was #4. This season they rushed for 113 YPG and passed for 262 YPG.

So as you can see the defensive stats aren't much different than in 07' so you can stop with all the blame on the defense. The offense is actually basically the same also. The big difference is the record! And Dallas had one of the easiest schedules this season. To me this all comes right back to leadership.............

Be careful FF, I have heard you can confuse liberal democrats by presenting them with facts.
It looks like you might be doing the same here. :)

[Txbroadcaster]

Once again you make excuses for underachievement by claiming a lack of talent. Lets see who you would choose: The first group listed is from 07' and the second is this season. No doubt this year's group performed way worst but the question is why? Less talent? I don't agree............

RB= Barber/J. Jones or Murray/ F. Jones
DB=Hamlin, R. Williams, J. Reeves, T. Newman, A. Henry, P. Watkins or T. Newman, M. Jenkins, J. Elam, G. Sensabaugh, O. Scandrick.
LB= Ware, James, Carpenter, Ellis, Spencer, Burnett, Ayodele or Ware, James, Lee, Spencer, Brooking, Carter
Receivers= Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Witten, Austin, Fasano or Bryant, Austin, Witten, Robinson, Olgeltree , Bennett
DL=Canty, Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Johnson or Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Coleman, Lissamore(?)
OL=Adams, Colombo, Davis, Gurode, Kosier or Costa, Holland, Smith, Free, Kosier,


If you are honest you will find that you would choose just as many players from this roster as you would that roster. The O-line seemed to play much worst this season with the rookies but other than that I don't see a big drop in talent. I do however see a big drop in effort and execution.............

RB a wash

WR 07

Oline 07

Dline 07

OLB 07

DB 07

[Txbroadcaster]

Winning percentage/playoff wins....stuff like that.....like the REST of the world. :wave:
------------------------------------------

Edit to add:

1. Troy Aikman (1989-2001)
Troy Aikman was drafted as the number one overall pick in the 1989 draft. Aikman suffered through a miserable 1-15 season as a rookie. The beating he took during his rookie season probably led to his injury problems later in his career. He holds the record for the most win in a decade, winning 90 games during the 1990s. He led the Cowboys to three Super Bowls in a four year period, winning all three of them. He was the MVP of Super Bowl XXVII. Aikman has the highest completion percentage in the history of the Super Bowl, completing 70% of his passes. Aikman’s overall post season record is 11-5.

I know many people would pick Roger Staubach as the better quarterback. Staubach was known as “Captain Comeback” for leading the Cowboys to 23 come from behind victories in the fourth quarter. Aikman didn’t need to lead many fourth quarter comebacks because he took care of business during the first three quarters of the game. And his 3-0 record in the Super Bowl also gives him the edge over Staubach.


2. Roger Staubach (1969-1979)
Roger Staubach was drafted in the tenth round in the 1964 draft. He had a five year commitment to the Navy after leaving the Naval Academy and most teams didn’t want to wait five years so the Cowboys were able to get him in the tenth round. Staubach led the Cowboys to four Super Bowls, winning two of them. During Staubach’s career he led the Cowboys to six NFC championship games, winning four of them. Staubach’s career record in the post season was 11-6, including 2-2 in the Super Bowl. He was the MVP of Super Bowl VI when the Cowboys defeated the Miami Dolphins 24-3. Staubach was the highest rated passer in the NFL four times. When he retired he was the highest rated passer of all time.


3. Don Meredith (1960-1968)
Meredith is probably best known for his work on Monday Night Football. Like Aikman, he started his career playing on some bad Cowboy teams. By the mid-1960s the Cowboys were winning. Meredith never led the Cowboys to a Super Bowl. He was the Cowboys quarterback during the “Ice Bowl” in 1967, losing 21-17 to the Packers for the right to go to Super Bowl II. The Cowboys also lost the previous year to the Packers for the right to go to the first Super Bowl.

4. Danny White (1976-1988)
Danny White had the misfortune of following Roger Staubach. He could never escape from the shadow of “Captain Comeback”. He did lead the Cowboys to three consecutive NFC championship games during the 1980-1982 seasons, losing all three games. He holds the team record for most touchdown passes in a season (29) and most passing yards in a season (3980). He was benched and replaced with Gary Hogeboom in 1984. He regained the starting job but lost it again to Steve Pelleur in 1987 and never regained the starting job again. He was cut shortly after the Cowboys drafted Troy Aikman.


5. Craig Morton (1965-1974)
Craig Morton led the Cowboys to the Super Bowl after the 1970, losing to the Colts 16-13 on a last second field goal. He threw two fourth quarter interceptions that many believe are largely responsible for the Cowboys losing the game. He was replaced by Roger Staubach in 1971. He was later traded after the 1974 season. He lost the Super Bowl again, this time throwing four interceptions against the Cowboys in Super Bowl XXII.


Mortin was 2-2 in play offs for cowboys...he does not get credit for last one beause staubach replaced him and won the game in 4th Q



Meredith was 1-3 in play offs

White 5-5

so again what are you trying to prove? Aikman and Staubach had better play-offs...DUH they are HOF QBs..Morton and Meredith about the same

[Txbroadcaster]

Btw Farmer..you claim the Pro Bowl shows how good people and a team are

Well Broncos have 3 D players going to Pro Bowl...so by YOUR STANDARDS that shows how good that D is

[Txbroadcaster]

Btw Farmer..you claim the Pro Bowl shows how good people and a team are

Well Broncos have 3 D players going to Pro Bowl...so by YOUR STANDARDS that shows how good that D is

oh and that non talented O for Denver..has two pro bowlers...so by your standard..Denver has 6..Dallas 2..and the Denver D has 4, not 3

[Eagle 1]

Mortin was 2-2 in play offs for cowboys...he does not get credit for last one beause staubach replaced him and won the game in 4th Q





Meredith was 1-3 in play offs

White 5-5

so again what are you trying to prove? Aikman and Staubach had better play-offs...DUH they are HOF QBs..Morton and Meredith about the same

Morton was 3-2 in the playoffs for the Cowboys and 2-2 for other teams, here is the link: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MortCr00.htm
More importantly he played in two Super Bowls. Romo wont ever smell a Super Bowl.

Meredith threw for over 17,000 yards and 135 touchdowns in his career, earned two trips to the Pro Bowl, and was named the 1966 NFL Player of the Year, not to mention a Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor player.

Whites 5-5 record in the playoffs is far more than Romo will ever reach.

My point is Romo is not even considered in the top 5 Dallas qb's. That is fact.

[Txbroadcaster]

Morton was 3-2 in the playoffs for the Cowboys and 2-2 for other teams, here is the link: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MortCr00.htm
More importantly he played in two Super Bowls. Romo wont ever smell a Super Bowl.

Meredith threw for over 17,000 yards and 135 touchdowns in his career, earned two trips to the Pro Bowl, and was named the 1966 NFL Player of the Year, not to mention a Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor player.

Whites 5-5 record in the playoffs is far more than Romo will ever reach.

My point is Romo is not even considered in the top 5 Dallas qb's. That is fact.


Morton was 3-2 on paper, but the last win is beause Staubach came in when Dallas was behind in the 4th Q annd led a comeback..that win does not go to Morton

he started a SB and loss, he was a backup in the other when Staubach beat the Fins.

Fact is Romo IS a top 5 QB for a team that has two HOFers and another 2 who prob should be in

[Farmersfan]

No because that defense could hold a lead!!!!!



I'm not sure what this means GrTigers6. How long are they expected to "hold the lead". You seem to have a opinion that this year's team didn't "hold the lead" so what exactly does that mean? The 07' offense continued to score and scored as many points in the 4th quarter as they did in the 1st while the defense gave up just as many points in the 4th as this season's defense did. So how do you quantify "that defense could hold a lead"? We know this year's defense gave up a final possession drive to NE to lose the game and a couple of mistake riddled stands late to lose to the Cardinals. But in both those games the total points allowed for the 60 minutes of football was way below normal and the offense went to sleep in the entire game or at least late in the game. The offense scored a total of 9 point in the entire 2nd half of those two games. Bad play from the defense for sure but hardly the reason the game was lost. If you can't score more than 13 points on offense in an entire game you will lose most games even if you have the 85' Bears defense to back you up. So what other losses are you putting on the defenses shoulders? Lions? Romo throws 3 picks that lead to 17 points for the Lions and the defense gives up 17 points and it's the defenses fault? And the offense went completely asleep in that game. Even a FG ices the game. Jets? Defense gave up a single TD early in the 4th and that was all the D gave up in the entire second half. The Jets scored on a blocked punt and a interception thrown by Romo with less than a minute left in the game. the point is that the only 2 games of the season that the defense "melted down" in was the NE game and the Arizona game. Yet in both those games the offense also melted down. And yet you have placed the entire season on the head of the defense! It's just doesn't make any sense.

[Farmersfan]

RB a wash

WR 07

Oline 07

Dline 07

OLB 07

DB 07


I think you just proved why your opinions about the Cowboys are often so flawed.

Anyone else want to claim they would take M. Barber and Julius Jones over Murray and Felix Jones? How about the starting receiver corps of Owens, P. Crayton, Sam Hurd and J. Witten over Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Robinson and J. Witten?
With the exception of the OL all the rest could be close enough to go either way in my opinion but those two spots are far, far better now than in 07'.

[buff4ever]

I think you just proved why your opinions about the Cowboys are often so flawed.

Anyone else want to claim they would take M. Barber and Julius Jones over Murray and Felix Jones? How about the starting receiver corps of Owens, P. Crayton, Sam Hurd and J. Witten over Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Robinson and J. Witten?
With the exception of the OL all the rest could be close enough to go either way in my opinion but those two spots are far, far better now than in 07'.

Agree, FF is spot on, TXB is trying to support a lost cause at all cost. Not a good idea, if you were Jerry Jones, and playing with real money; oh wait, that is exactly what Jerry does every year, supports a lost cause. Jerry thinks he knows what is best as though he is the football expert, and he thinks Romo is the man, so you guys are as good at judging all around talent (physical and mental) as Jerry jones. How does that make you feel?

[Eagle 1]

Morton was 3-2 on paper, but the last win is beause Staubach came in when Dallas was behind in the 4th Q annd led a comeback..that win does not go to Morton

he started a SB and loss, he was a backup in the other when Staubach beat the Fins.

Fact is Romo IS a top 5 QB for a team that has two HOFers and another 2 who prob should be in

How can you say that win does not go to Morton when I posted a pro-football reference link that says he is credited with the win?
Read the link, it says:
Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1969 (0-1), 1970 (2-1), 1972 (1-0), 1977 (2-1), 1978 (0-1), 1979 (0-1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1977 (1)

Fact is, that Romo is NOT a top 5 qb even though the Romo faithful think he is.

Read for yourself.
http://shawn-scarborough.hubpages.com/hub/the-greatest-cowboy-quarterbacks

[GrTigers6]

I'm not sure what this means GrTigers6. How long are they expected to "hold the lead". You seem to have a opinion that this year's team didn't "hold the lead" so what exactly does that mean? The 07' offense continued to score and scored as many points in the 4th quarter as they did in the 1st while the defense gave up just as many points in the 4th as this season's defense did. So how do you quantify "that defense could hold a lead"? We know this year's defense gave up a final possession drive to NE to lose the game and a couple of mistake riddled stands late to lose to the Cardinals. But in both those games the total points allowed for the 60 minutes of football was way below normal and the offense went to sleep in the entire game or at least late in the game. The offense scored a total of 9 point in the entire 2nd half of those two games. Bad play from the defense for sure but hardly the reason the game was lost. If you can't score more than 13 points on offense in an entire game you will lose most games even if you have the 85' Bears defense to back you up. So what other losses are you putting on the defenses shoulders? Lions? Romo throws 3 picks that lead to 17 points for the Lions and the defense gives up 17 points and it's the defenses fault? And the offense went completely asleep in that game. Even a FG ices the game. Jets? Defense gave up a single TD early in the 4th and that was all the D gave up in the entire second half. The Jets scored on a blocked punt and a interception thrown by Romo with less than a minute left in the game. the point is that the only 2 games of the season that the defense "melted down" in was the NE game and the Arizona game. Yet in both those games the offense also melted down. And yet you have placed the entire season on the head of the defense! It's just doesn't make any sense.Wow really? What about the first Giants game. Where we had 14 point lead and the defense gave it up in the last 5 minutes. The lions game the D gave up 17 points in the second half. Yes the offense went to sleep but that is entirely on Jason Garrett for being way to conservative, As did the D play conservative as well. But still those games ( lions game had two turnovers but still had 17 point lead after those) should have been won just by making a stop or two in the fourth quarter. There is no way you can justify those melydowns by saying they held them under their average. To be an elite Defense you need to be able to hold the lead in the 4th. The same as the offense gaining ground or maintaning a possession to keep the other offense off.
The arizona game was definetly a bad offensive game due mainly to a great game plan by the Arizona defensive coord. but also due to the horrible O line play. But again even as bad a productive day it was for the offense the D just opened up and let a subpar offense walk right down the field and score to win not once but twice
On the jets game I never said the defense was the problem even though they should have made a stop to conserve the win for the offense that made it more than it should have been.

[GrTigers6]

How can you say that win does not go to Morton when I posted a pro-football reference link that says he is credited with the win?
Read the link, it says:
Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1969 (0-1), 1970 (2-1), 1972 (1-0), 1977 (2-1), 1978 (0-1), 1979 (0-1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1977 (1)

Fact is, that Romo is NOT a top 5 qb even though the Romo faithful think he is.

Read for yourself.
http://shawn-scarborough.hubpages.com/hub/the-greatest-cowboy-quarterbacksIts simple, He got the win because he was the starter and played the majority of the game. He however was behind when he left and Staubach came in and won it. So on paper he won but in reality it should have been Staubach. As much as you claim to know about football you would think that you would understand and elementary statement like that!:D

[GrTigers6]

I'm not sure what this means GrTigers6. How long are they expected to "hold the lead". You seem to have a opinion that this year's team didn't "hold the lead" so what exactly does that mean? The 07' offense continued to score and scored as many points in the 4th quarter as they did in the 1st while the defense gave up just as many points in the 4th as this season's defense did. So how do you quantify "that defense could hold a lead"? We know this year's defense gave up a final possession drive to NE to lose the game and a couple of mistake riddled stands late to lose to the Cardinals. But in both those games the total points allowed for the 60 minutes of football was way below normal and the offense went to sleep in the entire game or at least late in the game. The offense scored a total of 9 point in the entire 2nd half of those two games. Bad play from the defense for sure but hardly the reason the game was lost. If you can't score more than 13 points on offense in an entire game you will lose most games even if you have the 85' Bears defense to back you up. So what other losses are you putting on the defenses shoulders? Lions? Romo throws 3 picks that lead to 17 points for the Lions and the defense gives up 17 points and it's the defenses fault? And the offense went completely asleep in that game. Even a FG ices the game. Jets? Defense gave up a single TD early in the 4th and that was all the D gave up in the entire second half. The Jets scored on a blocked punt and a interception thrown by Romo with less than a minute left in the game. the point is that the only 2 games of the season that the defense "melted down" in was the NE game and the Arizona game. Yet in both those games the offense also melted down. And yet you have placed the entire season on the head of the defense! It's just doesn't make any sense.One more thing your this statement makes no sense because out of 16 games that year only 3 were within 7 points. The rest were blowouts. So How is that the same as this year when almost every game came down to the wire.
That just proves you type what ever makes your statement sell. And by the way im not in the market for what your selling.:D

[Txbroadcaster]

I think you just proved why your opinions about the Cowboys are often so flawed.

Anyone else want to claim they would take M. Barber and Julius Jones over Murray and Felix Jones? How about the starting receiver corps of Owens, P. Crayton, Sam Hurd and J. Witten over Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Robinson and J. Witten?
With the exception of the OL all the rest could be close enough to go either way in my opinion but those two spots are far, far better now than in 07'.

uhh look at the stats.simple as that..I am not going on who I would pick for a team, I am going on actual stat..the 07 WR/TE corp had TWO who went over 1,000..this year..none..the RB stats are basically a wash..the 07 DB had more ints, thatD had more sacks

[Eagle 1]

Its simple, He got the win because he was the starter and played the majority of the game. He however was behind when he left and Staubach came in and won it. So on paper he won but in reality it should have been Staubach. As much as you claim to know about football you would think that you would understand and elementary statement like that!:D

It looks pretty cut and dry to me.

Playoff Record as Starting QB: 1969 (0-1), 1970 (2-1), 1972 (1-0), 1977 (2-1), 1978 (0-1), 1979 (0-1)
Playoff Game-Winning Drives: 1977 (1)

[Eagle 1]

uhh look at the stats.simple as that..I am not going on who I would pick for a team, I am going on actual stat..the 07 WR/TE corp had TWO who went over 1,000..this year..none..

So just curious. Who throws the football to those receivers?
Think about in now. :)

[Txbroadcaster]

So just curious. Who throws the football to those receivers?
Think about in now. :)

your point? Romo had a better season this year than in 07, but I would take the 07 group over this year as far as what they accomplished.

And do you really think it is so cut and dry on Morton? He was terrible his last play off game for Dallas, Roger comes in and gets the win so who would you give it to?

[Eagle 1]

your point? Romo had a better season this year than in 07, but I would take the 07 group over this year as far as what they accomplished.

And do you really think it is so cut and dry on Morton? He was terrible his last play off game for Dallas, Roger comes in and gets the win so who would you give it to?

You said the 07 receivers were better, but Romo had a better season this year stat wise.
Clear as mud now. Surely Romo cant be blamed for the 07 receivers who went on to play for other teams.


The win goes to the starting qb, regardless what you or I think.
However, for the record Staubach is my favorite all time qb.

[Farmersfan]

. The lions game the D gave up 17 points in the second half. Yes the offense went to sleep but that is entirely on Jason Garrett for being way to conservative, As did the D play conservative as well. But still those games ( lions game had two turnovers but still had 17 point lead after those) should have been won just by making a stop or two in the fourth quarter.

So what you are saying is the defense is expected to make up for the offense's mistakes? Holding a good offense to 17 total points is good day. The worst offense in the NFL this season averaged 12 points and the AVERAGE offense scored 22 points a game. And I also think you need to be aware that the "17 point lead" that this team had at one point in this game was also due to the DEFENSE! The defense held the Lions to just 3 total offensive points through 3 quarters of this game. I can't see any intelligent person finding a way to blame the defense for this one.


There is no way you can justify those melydowns by saying they held them under their average. To be an elite Defense you need to be able to hold the lead in the 4th. The same as the offense gaining ground or maintaning a possession to keep the other offense off.

Nobody that I have seen has called this an elite defense. There aren't very many elite defenses in the NFL anymore. This defense performed at a very, very average level this season. But guess what? So did the offense! And once again you have only posted a single game where they gave up the lead in the 4th where the other team didn't get help from the offense. And if you are blaming them for not holding Tom Brady to fewer than 20 points then you really aren't very football savy. And all the other games you mentioned they performed like a average defense and lost the game because the offense gave up unearned points. You can't expect the defense to make up the points that your offense simply hands to the other team. That's ridiculous!


The arizona game was definetly a bad offensive game due mainly to a great game plan by the Arizona defensive coord. but also due to the horrible O line play. But again even as bad a productive day it was for the offense the D just opened up and let a subpar offense walk right down the field and score to win not once but twice

Can you seriously not read your own nonsense? It's amazing how you are willing to blame the offensive woes on a "great gameplan" by the defense but refuse to give the defense the same consideration. I think we see what is going on....




n the jets game I never said the defense was the problem even though they should have made a stop to conserve the win for the offense that made it more than it should have been.


I agree with that "should have"! But that "should have" is about half as important as the multiple "should not have" by the offense.............................

[Farmersfan]

uhh look at the stats.simple as that..I am not going on who I would pick for a team, I am going on actual stat..the 07 WR/TE corp had TWO who went over 1,000..this year..none..the RB stats are basically a wash..the 07 DB had more ints, thatD had more sacks



The question we are debating is WHY that team won 13 games while this season's team only won 8. You said that team was more talented. So please don't pick those players because of how many games they won or how many catches they had.............. Seriously, I thought you were capable of thinking outside of the box.
So let's try it again: If you were starting a brand new team right now which players would you chose.

07' Barber/J. Jones or 11' Murray/F. Jones
07' Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Wittin or 11' Bryant, Austin, Robinson, Witten
07' Carpenter, Ware, James, Ellis or 11' Ware, Lee, James, Spencer (sub Brooking, Carter if you want)
07' Ratliff, Hatcher, Johnson, Spears or 11' Ratliff, Hatcher, Spears, Coleman/lissamore
07' Newman, Henry, R. Williams, Reeves or 11' Newman, Jenkins, Elam, Sensabaugh

I won't even post the OL comparison because that would not even be close.

[Farmersfan]

One more thing your this statement makes no sense because out of 16 games that year only 3 were within 7 points. The rest were blowouts. So How is that the same as this year when almost every game came down to the wire.
That just proves you type what ever makes your statement sell. And by the way im not in the market for what your selling.:D


But why were so many of those games blowouts while this years came down to the wire? I think I have shown you about 4 times already that the offense didn't score late in the game in most of the close games this season. And the defense in 07' gave up just as many 4th quarter points as this years defense did. So armed with those two FACTS can you tell me WHY the games this season would go down to the wire after the Cowboys had a early lead?

[GrTigers6]

So what you are saying is the defense is expected to make up for the offense's mistakes? Holding a good offense to 17 total points is good day. The worst offense in the NFL this season averaged 12 points and the AVERAGE offense scored 22 points a game. And I also think you need to be aware that the "17 point lead" that this team had at one point in this game was also due to the DEFENSE! The defense held the Lions to just 3 total offensive points through 3 quarters of this game. I can't see any intelligent person finding a way to blame the defense for this one.



Nobody that I have seen has called this an elite defense. There aren't very many elite defenses in the NFL anymore. This defense performed at a very, very average level this season. But guess what? So did the offense! And once again you have only posted a single game where they gave up the lead in the 4th where the other team didn't get help from the offense. And if you are blaming them for not holding Tom Brady to fewer than 20 points then you really aren't very football savy. And all the other games you mentioned they performed like a average defense and lost the game because the offense gave up unearned points. You can't expect the defense to make up the points that your offense simply hands to the other team. That's ridiculous!



Can you seriously not read your own nonsense? It's amazing how you are willing to blame the offensive woes on a "great gameplan" by the defense but refuse to give the defense the same consideration. I think we see what is going on....






I agree with that "should have"! But that "should have" is about half as important as the multiple "should not have" by the offense.............................number 1 i never said this wasan elite defense. I merely stated what an elite D should do.
And on the lions game you think that if the defense holds for 3 quarters then its a good day. Because the offense should score more. they already scored more than their average.
As far as the Card game, i never said the O wasnt part of the blame. i just said they got them back ahead only for the D to give up 14 consecutive points to blow it. Also I wasnt making excuses for the O just stated reasons why they struggled.
My problem with this argument is blaming the offense on Romo. When most of the time it was poor routes, bad blocking, poor play calling, and yes some romo mistakes but not near as many as yall would lead us to believe

[GrTigers6]

But why were so many of those games blowouts while this years came down to the wire? I think I have shown you about 4 times already that the offense didn't score late in the game in most of the close games this season. And the defense in 07' gave up just as many 4th quarter points as this years defense did. So armed with those two FACTS can you tell me WHY the games this season would go down to the wire after the Cowboys had a early lead?Really? You dont know that answer, Let me give you a big hint
DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clear enough?

[hollywood]

Why did the offense stop scoring?

[GrTigers6]

Why did the offense stop scoring?This year poor conservative play calling, in 07 they had huge leads

[Farmersfan]

number 1 i never said this wasan elite defense. I merely stated what an elite D should do.
And on the lions game you think that if the defense holds for 3 quarters then its a good day. Because the offense should score more. they already scored more than their average.



Yes they did! And 17 of those points they scored were for the OTHER TEAM!!! :crazy: The defense only gave up 17 points. Without the help of the Dallas offense the Lions lose that game. Period! The Dallas defense didn't HELP them score!

[Farmersfan]

This year poor conservative play calling, in 07 they had huge leads



Examining stats and numbers certainly isn't your strength is it GrTigers6! But it's ok. I think everyone who isn't a Romosexual understands that the defense this year was simply a very average defense that had to try to hold leads when the offense shut down. They were able to some of the time and weren't at others. Have a great weekend!

[GrTigers6]

Yes they did! And 17 of those points they scored were for the OTHER TEAM!!! :crazy: The defense only gave up 17 points. Without the help of the Dallas offense the Lions lose that game. Period! The Dallas defense didn't HELP them score!UH yes they did. Let them march right down the field not once, but twice. And i also didnt say it was only the defense. Itwas all around on that game. All I was saying was even after the mistakes by the offense we were still in great shape to win but the D couldnt do it

[GrTigers6]

Examining stats and numbers certainly isn't your strength is it GrTigers6! But it's ok. I think everyone who isn't a Romosexual understands that the defense this year was simply a very average defense that had to try to hold leads when the offense shut down. They were able to some of the time and weren't at others. Have a great weekend!What stats are there to examine? The score shows enough. And im sorry if I have better things to do than look at stats and analyze them in a way to prove my point. I will just leave that up to you!:taunt::D

[Old Tiger]

If I were to select a franchise QB out of Romo and Tebow...I'd go Romo all day, 8 days a week.

[yellaseeker]

Here's the difference in these two QB's. One has not proved he has what it takes to consistantly be a winner and one has consistantly proven he doesn't have what it takes to consistantly win. I'll give you a clue as to which one fits which description. The one who has not proved he has what it takes to consistently be a winner, has already proven that he can be a leader when the chips are down. Guys, how long are yall gonna keep beating this poor ol' dead horse? Will someone please dig him a hole, for pete's sake.

[Eagle 1]

I think everyone who isn't a Romosexual understands that the defense this year was simply a very average defense that had to try to hold leads when the offense shut down. They were able to some of the time and weren't at others. Have a great weekend!

:iagree:

[Txbroadcaster]

:iagree:

so basically you two believe that the offense has to do it all and all the D has to do is just show up?

[Eagle 1]

so basically you two believe that the offense has to do it all and all the D has to do is just show up?

We are not arguing that the defense needs work, just that the offense needs MORE work....starting at the qb position.
So now we are back to square one.

[Old Tiger]

Tebow = guy who has been handed everything his whole life and given the benefit of the doubt


Romo = guy who had to work his way to the top



Ask yourself which story is better Tebow or Romo.



This FRS commercial by Tebow is the biggest load of crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO8imsZl1F8

Said I couldn't be a HS QB....well that was because you were home schooled and because of a rule in Florida home school kids can participate in public athletics.
Said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship....yeah because you had over 100 offers and they said you couldn't get a D1 ship
Said I couldn't win a Heisman...whoever said that?
Said I couldn't win a national championship...you had a team loaded with talent and a very good coach
Said I couldn't play in the league....nobody said that...we all knew he would get drafted


Only thing that was actually said is that he couldn't be a first round draft pick

[Txbroadcaster]

We are not arguing that the defense needs work, just that the offense needs MORE work....starting at the qb position.
So now we are back to square one.

you have got to be kidding me if your saying the offense is worse than the D for Dallas

[Eagle 1]

you have got to be kidding me if your saying the offense is worse than the D for Dallas

I only think the secondary is bad, not the defense as a whole.
The offense is pathetic across the board.

[Eagle 1]

Tebow = guy who has been handed everything his whole life and given the benefit of the doubt


Romo = guy who had to work his way to the top




No way is Romo at the top of ANYTHING.

[Txbroadcaster]

I only think the secondary is bad, not the defense as a whole.
The offense is pathetic across the board.


i am thinking this is a bit your doing

[MJMbrahmas10]

Old tiger, the reason tebow played hs qb where he did. Is because his original school didn't want him at qb. Therefore he moved.

[Old Tiger]

No way is Romo at the top of ANYTHING.working your way from undrafted Fa to starting who in the league is the top

[Old Tiger]

Old tiger, the reason tebow played hs qb where he did. Is because his original school didn't want him at qb. Therefore he moved.LOL he was home schooled bro due to all the missionary work his family did.

[MJMbrahmas10]

He was homeschooled. That's why he could choose where he wanted to do extracurricular activities

[Eagle 1]

i am thinking this is a bit your doing

I'm not sure what you mean, I just gave my honest opinion.
The offense "could" improve with a good leader/qb.
Jason Witten is the only good player on offense IMO. Dez and Miles are hit and miss and T. Smith shows promise if he doesn't follow the rest of the scrubs on the O'line.

I think the defense is good with the exception of the secondary.
When your mlb leads the team with 4 interceptions, something is wrong.

[coach]

I'm not sure what you mean, I just gave my honest opinion.
The offense "could" improve with a good leader/qb.
Jason Witten is the only good player on offense IMO. Dez and Miles are hit and miss and T. Smith shows promise if he doesn't follow the rest of the scrubs on the O'line.

I think the defense is good with the exception of the secondary.
When your mlb leads the team with 4 interceptions, something is wrong.

Written the only good offensive player? LMAO. He is the most overrated player on the team. They make the playoffs if witten lowers his shoulder like a football player.

[Farmersfan]

Written the only good offensive player? LMAO. He is the most overrated player on the team. They make the playoffs if witten lowers his shoulder like a football player.



Not according to the other NFL players coach! According to NFL players Tony Romo is not only the most overrated player on the team but the second most overrated player in the entire league!!!!!

[Txbroadcaster]

Witten is not overrated, his mistakes just dont get nitpicked, but he is a penalty machine and cant break a tackle to save his life at times

[Farmersfan]

Witten is not overrated, his mistakes just dont get nitpicked, but he is a penalty machine and cant break a tackle to save his life at times



Correction: His mistakes do get nitpicked but there aren't people constantly making excuses for him. And he CAN break tackles, he just chooses not to! It's the old "effort" discussion we have had a million times. In fact I believe I even said Witten cost the Cowboys a game because he allowed himself to be gently ushered out of bounds at the 10 yardline by a 200lb D-back instead of fighting for the endzone. I'm pretty sure you argued in favor of Witten on that one!

[Txbroadcaster]

Correction: His mistakes do get nitpicked but there aren't people constantly making excuses for him. And he CAN break tackles, he just chooses not to! It's the old "effort" discussion we have had a million times. In fact I believe I even said Witten cost the Cowboys a game because he allowed himself to be gently ushered out of bounds at the 10 yardline by a 200lb D-back instead of fighting for the endzone. I'm pretty sure you argued in favor of Witten on that one!

probably did not, I have always said he is terrible at breaking tackles..and show me where he gets nitpicked for penalties and mistakes

[Farmersfan]

probably did not, I have always said he is terrible at breaking tackles..and show me where he gets nitpicked for penalties and mistakes



Every times Witten makes the mistakes or penalties it is brought up on here in discussion. Everybody then agrees and we move on to other fish. Romo makes mistakes and it's brought up on here and you start to argue how nobody but you knows what they are talking about. See the difference?

[Txbroadcaster]

Every times Witten makes the mistakes or penalties it is brought up on here in discussion. Everybody then agrees and we move on to other fish. Romo makes mistakes and it's brought up on here and you start to argue how nobody but you knows what they are talking about. See the difference?

I meant from the media..hell i am one of the ones that brings up his mistakes..and please show me once where I said nobody but me knows what they are talking about..I never disrespect someone

[Farmersfan]

I meant from the media..hell i am one of the ones that brings up his mistakes..and please show me once where I said nobody but me knows what they are talking about..I never disrespect someone



Right! You bring up Witten's mistakes and we all agree and move on. Someone else brings up the Romo mistakes and the fight is on! Does this tell you where the root of this Romo debate lies???? :)

And I agree you never disrespect anyone.

[Old Tiger]

plz moderators


delete thread/ban farmersfan

[GrTigers6]

Right! You bring up Witten's mistakes and we all agree and move on. Someone else brings up the Romo mistakes and the fight is on! Does this tell you where the root of this Romo debate lies???? :)

And I agree you never disrespect anyone.Thats because Romo doesnt make mistakes!:taunt::D

[Txbroadcaster]

Right! You bring up Witten's mistakes and we all agree and move on. Someone else brings up the Romo mistakes and the fight is on! Does this tell you where the root of this Romo debate lies???? :)

And I agree you never disrespect anyone.


I just dont blame Witten for defensive shortcomings and claim Dallas cant win with him because he is not a fiery leader, nor blame him for going to Mexico( people always seem to forget that one)

[Farmersfan]

I just dont blame Witten for defensive shortcomings and claim Dallas cant win with him because he is not a fiery leader, nor blame him for going to Mexico( people always seem to forget that one)



We will never forget!!!!!!!

[Farmersfan]

plz moderators


delete thread/ban farmersfan



Let me clue you in Old Tiger! Press the little X in the upper right corner and all your woes will be gone................... SEE YA!

[Eagle 1]

Witten is not overrated, his mistakes just dont get nitpicked, but he is a penalty machine and cant break a tackle to save his life at times

Penalty machine?
Can't break tackles?
Are you crazy?
I'll bet you anything that Witten will be added to the Cowboys ring of honor long before Romo (if Romo ever gets added).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcRLgkLQh_Y