Tebow

[Ernest T Bass]

Damn he sucks!

[Saggy Aggie]

Yeah that guy can't throw a pass

[Eagle 1]

Yet....the Romo fans are sitting at home watching.

[Bullaholic]

Guy has got "it", and makes "it" work for wins...

[Ernest T Bass]

Playoff wins:

Romo-1
Tebow-1

[zebrablue2]

Playoff wins:

Romo-1
Tebow-1


Do not forget T.J. Yates of the Texans. The ROOKIE has one win of his own!!!

[STANG RED]

Guy has got "it", and makes "it" work for wins...
DITTO!!!
Yet the Tebow detracters will always find a reason to hate him. Maybe this will at least shut them up for a week.
I was complaining the whole game about them not ever throwing on 1st down, because Pitt was selling out to stop the run on 1st down every time. Well they sure picked a great time to finally do it.

[Roughneck93]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/THE-PASSION-OF-THE-TEBOW.gif

[bobcat1]

Yet....the Romo fans are sitting at home watching.This! Tebow did great but the game ball goes to the O-Line of Denver. They dominated the Steelers pass rush.

[regaleagle]

Ditto, and a game ball for the Denver D to hold the Steelers without a field goal in the last possession. All game it was the O-line and D of Denver that took them to this win. Tebow did what he needed to do to get the "W", but he'll get most of the credit.

[83Indian]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/THE-PASSION-OF-THE-TEBOW.gif

Hard not to like this guy.

[FB-fanatic]

Hard not to like this guy.

I agree. Watch Tebow Mic'd Up vs Bears 2011 on youtube. Very hard not to like this guy after watching that.

[87 TIGER]

Tebow passed for 316 yds

[Gsquared]

Ive got nothing against Tebow but Denver's ability to run the football and play defense is what is making this thing tick. Way to much focus on one guy and not the team. Thats my 2 cents

[buff4ever]

I do wish that Romo would play with the passion that Tebow plays with, and could learn to lead a lot better from Tebow. For Tebow to be a little cheesey around grown men that play football, and yet they still seem to respect and like him. It is because he is a born leader and plays with absolute passion and heart. If Romo would show half the passion and heart that Tebow plays with, then I think he would be a better leader.

[Macarthur]

I do wish that Romo would play with the passion that Tebow plays with, and could learn to lead a lot better from Tebow. For Tebow to be a little cheesey around grown men that play football, and yet they still seem to respect and like him. It is because he is a born leader and plays with absolute passion and heart. If Romo would show half the passion and heart that Tebow plays with, then I think he would be a better leader.

I think playing with passion at the QB position is overrated.

I think the fact that Tebow and Yates have exactly the same number of playoff wins as Romo actually supports the case that Romo needs more help. No one would argue that either of those guys are better QBs than Tony Romo, yet they have a playoff roster built around them.

Matt Ryan is 0-3. Are they better than him? Of course they aren't.

[Old Tiger]

Ive got nothing against Tebow but Denver's ability to run the football and play defense is what is making this thing tick. Way to much focus on one guy and not the team. Thats my 2 centsthis

[hollywood]

I'll say that Tebow has a lot to learn. He is a fierce competitor, motivator, and leader.
Brees, Romo, Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Tom Brady... all are far superior QB's than Tebow and should be with their experience!
The supporting play makers around Tebow help him greatly, but, he has been clutch when he needed to be for his team.
He's got a bright future in the NFL if he learns better throwing mechanics.

[SintonFan]

..................

[SintonFan]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/the-passion-of-the-tebow.gif


this is sparta!!!

[Cam]

watched the video clip above....whoa!...I read his lips!!....he was cursin' in spanish!!!......only kiddin'....but the boy does have some spunk!!!

[STANG RED]

All very true. But all the Tebow detractors say he has no business even trying to play QB in this leauge. I think he has at least proven them wrong. Although they will all be looking for his fist next mistake to start questioning his ability again. They act as if even the greatest QBs never had bad games or had to mature over time, before they became that great QB. Bottom line is Tebow is a winner! Let him use his best abilities and teach him how to be better at his weaknesses. I think if they do that, he has a long successful future in the NFL. But like every other QB in the NFL, he will have to have a good supporting cast around him, to be/maintain success.

[Saggy Aggie]

Ive got nothing against Tebow but Denver's ability to run the football and play defense is what is making this thing tick. Way to much focus on one guy and not the team. Thats my 2 cents Denver's running game sucked yesterday.

Tebow was the best running game they had

[Phil C]

this is sparta!!!


i am spartacus!!

[Bullaholic]

i am spartacus!!

I remember that scene from the movie, Phil....

[Gsquared]

Denver's running game sucked yesterday.

Tebow was the best running game they had
Tebow is part of the running game, he makes the running game complete. I still think there are lots of rolls on that team that make it what it is outside of Tim Tebow. Tebow is one of the cogs yet everything I see on TV is praise Tebow. Sure praise him but praise that O-Line and defense too. The boys in the trenches dont sell papers though.

[Bullaholic]

Tebow is part of the running game, he makes the running game complete. I still think there are lots of rolls on that team that make it what it is outside of Tim Tebow. Tebow is one of the cogs yet everything I see on TV is praise Tebow. Sure praise him but praise that O-Line and defense too. The boys in the trenches dont sell papers though.

Yup--it is a team effort, G2. Those glory skill guys go nowhere without the hogs. Now, having agreed with you--I also gotta say that Tebow is dang sure due some time in the sun---I remember when many folks said he had no business trying to play QB in the NFL. The guy didn't listen to them--believed in himself and his team, and look where they both are now.

[OldNavy]

Tebow is part of the running game, he makes the running game complete. I still think there are lots of rolls on that team that make it what it is outside of Tim Tebow. Tebow is one of the cogs yet everything I see on TV is praise Tebow. Sure praise him but praise that O-Line and defense too. The boys in the trenches dont sell papers though.

Tebow doesn't take the credit. I have never heard him say "I did this and I did that." I hear him praise the line, the D, the Coaches and God. Not necessarily in that order. I think the hype is because the smart money was on the fact that he can't play QB. He can play QB some, and he can put butts in the seats and increase ratings pretty dang well!

Maybe he can't play the prototype NFL quarterback. He may have some weaknesses, but he has some strengths. I say coach up and play to his strengths. I don't know of any QBs, prototype or otherwise that win and game plan to use their weaknesses. I think Tebow and his coaches will get better and using his strengths.

[Gsquared]

Tebow doesn't take the credit. I have never heard him say "I did this and I did that." I hear him praise the line, the D, the Coaches and God. Not necessarily in that order. I think the hype is because the smart money was on the fact that he can't play QB. He can play QB some, and he can put butts in the seats and increase ratings pretty dang well!

Maybe he can't play the prototype NFL quarterback. He may have some weaknesses, but he has some strengths. I say coach up and play to his strengths. I don't know of any QBs, prototype or otherwise that win and game plan to use their weaknesses. I think Tebow and his coaches will get better and using his strengths.
No, I agree with you, he doesnt take the credit himself. What ive been meaning this whole time is how all the talk is about he is this or that. Media and others arent giving the rest of the roll players credit.

[bobcat1]

No, I agree with you, he doesnt take the credit himself. What ive been meaning this whole time is how all the talk is about he is this or that. Media and others arent giving the rest of the roll players credit. I agree.

[OldBison75]

Sure football is “just a game”…..Let me tell you a story about a woman named Pam, who knows the pain of considering abortion. More than 24 years ago, she and her husband Bob were serving as missionaries to the Philippines and praying for a fifth child. Pam contracted amoebic dysentery, an infection of the intestine caused by a parasite found in contaminated food or drink. She went into a coma and was treated with strong anti...biotics before they discovered she was pregnant.

Doctors urged her to abort the baby for her own safety and told her that the medicines had caused irreversible damage to her baby. She refused the abortion and cited her Christian faith as the reason for her hope that her son would be born without the devastating disabilities physicians predicted. Pam said the doctors didn't think of it as a life, they thought of it as a mass of fetal tissue.

While pregnant, Pam nearly lost their baby four times but refused to consider abortion. She recalled making a pledge to God with her husband: If you will give us a son, we’ll name him Timothy and we’ll make him a preacher.

Pam ultimately spent the last two months of her pregnancy in bed and eventually gave birth to a healthy baby boy August 14, 1987. Pam’s youngest son is indeed a preacher. He preaches in prisons, makes hospital visits, and serves with his father’s ministry in the Philippines. He also plays football. Pam’s son is Tim Tebow.

The University of Florida’s star quarterback became the first sophomore in history to win college football’s highest award, the Heisman Trophy. His current role as quarterback of the Denver Broncos has provided an incredible platform for Christian witness. As a result, he is being called The Mile-High Messiah.

Tim’s notoriety and the family’s inspiring story have given Pam numerous opportunities to speak on behalf of women’s centers across the country. Pam Tebow believes that every little baby you save matters. I pray her tribe will increase!

[Eagle 1]

I think playing with passion at the QB position is overrated.

I think the fact that Tebow and Yates have exactly the same number of playoff wins as Romo actually supports the case that Romo needs more help. No one would argue that either of those guys are better QBs than Tony Romo, yet they have a playoff roster built around them.

Matt Ryan is 0-3. Are they better than him? Of course they aren't.

Overrated? Playing with passion in any sport is a plus, especially the qb who is suppose to be the leader of the team.
Romo is surrounded by a supporting cast on offense.

[87 TIGER]

316 yds 3:16

[yellaseeker]

316 yds 3:16

"Awesome"

[yellaseeker]

Sure football is “just a game”…..Let me tell you a story about a woman named Pam, who knows the pain of considering abortion. More than 24 years ago, she and her husband Bob were serving as missionaries to the Philippines and praying for a fifth child. Pam contracted amoebic dysentery, an infection of the intestine caused by a parasite found in contaminated food or drink. She went into a coma and was treated with strong anti...biotics before they discovered she was pregnant.

Doctors urged her to abort the baby for her own safety and told her that the medicines had caused irreversible damage to her baby. She refused the abortion and cited her Christian faith as the reason for her hope that her son would be born without the devastating disabilities physicians predicted. Pam said the doctors didn't think of it as a life, they thought of it as a mass of fetal tissue.

While pregnant, Pam nearly lost their baby four times but refused to consider abortion. She recalled making a pledge to God with her husband: If you will give us a son, we’ll name him Timothy and we’ll make him a preacher.

Pam ultimately spent the last two months of her pregnancy in bed and eventually gave birth to a healthy baby boy August 14, 1987. Pam’s youngest son is indeed a preacher. He preaches in prisons, makes hospital visits, and serves with his father’s ministry in the Philippines. He also plays football. Pam’s son is Tim Tebow.

The University of Florida’s star quarterback became the first sophomore in history to win college football’s highest award, the Heisman Trophy. His current role as quarterback of the Denver Broncos has provided an incredible platform for Christian witness. As a result, he is being called The Mile-High Messiah.

Tim’s notoriety and the family’s inspiring story have given Pam numerous opportunities to speak on behalf of women’s centers across the country. Pam Tebow believes that every little baby you save matters. I pray her tribe will increase!

Inspirational indeed! Thanks for posting!

[waterboy]

Sure football is “just a game”…..Let me tell you a story about a woman named Pam, who knows the pain of considering abortion. More than 24 years ago, she and her husband Bob were serving as missionaries to the Philippines and praying for a fifth child. Pam contracted amoebic dysentery, an infection of the intestine caused by a parasite found in contaminated food or drink. She went into a coma and was treated with strong anti...biotics before they discovered she was pregnant.

Doctors urged her to abort the baby for her own safety and told her that the medicines had caused irreversible damage to her baby. She refused the abortion and cited her Christian faith as the reason for her hope that her son would be born without the devastating disabilities physicians predicted. Pam said the doctors didn't think of it as a life, they thought of it as a mass of fetal tissue.

While pregnant, Pam nearly lost their baby four times but refused to consider abortion. She recalled making a pledge to God with her husband: If you will give us a son, we’ll name him Timothy and we’ll make him a preacher.

Pam ultimately spent the last two months of her pregnancy in bed and eventually gave birth to a healthy baby boy August 14, 1987. Pam’s youngest son is indeed a preacher. He preaches in prisons, makes hospital visits, and serves with his father’s ministry in the Philippines. He also plays football. Pam’s son is Tim Tebow.

The University of Florida’s star quarterback became the first sophomore in history to win college football’s highest award, the Heisman Trophy. His current role as quarterback of the Denver Broncos has provided an incredible platform for Christian witness. As a result, he is being called The Mile-High Messiah.

Tim’s notoriety and the family’s inspiring story have given Pam numerous opportunities to speak on behalf of women’s centers across the country. Pam Tebow believes that every little baby you save matters. I pray her tribe will increase!
Wow! I never heard or read that story before. Talk about an inspiring story. It also puts the motivation behind the story, and shows why Tebow is who he is. Thank you for sharing!

[BEAST]

316 yds 3:16

And his yards per completion was 31.6.




BEAST

[waterboy]

And his yards per completion was 31.6.




BEAST
You think there could be a message there? Or is it just a coincidence?

[MGAR]

and in high school Reggie White weighed 316 pounds.

[buff4ever]

You think there could be a message there? Or is it just a coincidence?

Coincidence nothing! That is too much of a coincidence. He doesn't have to win every game or even the big game, he does enough in the way of unexpected victories and accomplishments for a qb with his talent, that I think it is more than coincidence.

[Old Tiger]

Austin 3:16 says it don't make a ****
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ry1gavNTDlU/Terki395-2I/AAAAAAAABE8/CG2oZCBqTAg/s1600/Stone+Cold+Steve+Austin+Beer.jpg

[BEAST]

You think there could be a message there? Or is it just a coincidence?

I certainly dont think he is the messiah, but as for a message, I think he sends a message everywhere he goes in anyway possible. As for coincidence, ........................




BEAST

[waterboy]

I certainly dont think he is the messiah, but as for a message, I think he sends a message everywhere he goes in anyway possible. As for coincidence, ........................




BEAST
I DEFINITELY wasn't implying he was the "Mesiah", or anything of the sort. There are non-believers out there that'll chock all of this up to coincidence, when I definitely DON'T think it was. When Tebow's life story comes into the equation, it sheds a light on what he is doing. He is ministering without even having to try. He speaks of, and gives all the credit for any success he has to the One that has given him life, and his physical abilities, and a springboard to spread His word. I think the entire world could learn from his message.

[BEAST]

I DEFINITELY wasn't implying he was the "Mesiah", or anything of the sort. There are non-believers out there that'll chock all of this up to coincidence, when I definitely DON'T think it was. When Tebow's life story comes into the equation, it sheds a light on what he is doing. He is ministering without even having to try. He speaks of, and gives all the credit for any success he has to the One that has given him life, and his physical abilities, and a springboard to spread His word. I think the entire world could learn from his message.

I totally agree with you. He was asked a question in an interview some weeks back and his answer has stuck with me since, "I dont know what my future holds, but I know who holds my future."




BEAST

[waterboy]

I totally agree with you. He was asked a question in an interview some weeks back and his answer has stuck with me since, "I dont know what my future holds, but I know who holds my future."




BEAST
Amen, brother! No truer words have been spoken! I hope his success continues!

[Macarthur]

Overrated? Playing with passion in any sport is a plus, especially the qb who is suppose to be the leader of the team.
Romo is surrounded by a supporting cast on offense.

Yes, I think it's overrated for the QB position. I know passion is important, especially in the game of football. But you don't have to be jumping around like a fool to be a leader. There are all kinds of leaders.

[buff4ever]

read a article that pointed out more "Coincidences". I haven't confirmed all of this as fact, but it wouldn't be hard. We know he had 316 yards passing on 10 completions which is 31.6 avg yards/completion. They also claim that Big Ben's interception (the only in the game) was thrown on 3rd and 16. They also claim that (name slipping my mind) the receiver that scored the last touchdown from Tebow was born on Christmas Day.

[buff4ever]

Yes, I think it's overrated for the QB position. I know passion is important, especially in the game of football. But you don't have to be jumping around like a fool to be a leader. There are all kinds of leaders.

What says you have to jump around like a fool to be passionate about winning a football game? I always respect your opinions, even if I don't agree with them all, but you sometimes put a spin on things to prove what you want everyone to believe in with you. I passionately love my wife, I don't jump and dance around her celebrating to prove it (not often anyways, some cirmcumstances will cause you to do strange things:))

[Macarthur]

What says you have to jump around like a fool to be passionate about winning a football game? I always respect your opinions, even if I don't agree with them all, but you sometimes put a spin on things to prove what you want everyone to believe in with you. I passionately love my wife, I don't jump and dance around her celebrating to prove it (not often anyways, some cirmcumstances will cause you to do strange things:))

All I"m saying is that you can be passionate and be a good leader and it doesn't always have to get caught by the TV cameras. I'm not saying this with regards to Tebow, but I think some guys play those things up because the cameras are on.

[Macarthur]

read a article that pointed out more "Coincidences". I haven't confirmed all of this as fact, but it wouldn't be hard. We know he had 316 yards passing on 10 completions which is 31.6 avg yards/completion. They also claim that Big Ben's interception (the only in the game) was thrown on 3rd and 16. They also claim that (name slipping my mind) the receiver that scored the last touchdown from Tebow was born on Christmas Day.

Okay, I may get in trouble here for playing devil's advocate (no pun intended :) )

With all of the suffering, death and injustice going on in the world, if God spent the energy making all these coincidences 'happen', then I have some bigger questions of him. Doesn't it strike you guys as somewhat immature in viewing God and his purpose?

[waterboy]

Okay, I may get in trouble here for playing devil's advocate (no pun intended :) )

With all of the suffering, death and injustice going on in the world, if God spent the energy making all these coincidences 'happen', then I have some bigger questions of him. Doesn't it strike you guys as somewhat immature in viewing God and his purpose?
What "energy"? And NOPE.....:wave:

[buff4ever]

Okay, I may get in trouble here for playing devil's advocate (no pun intended :) )

With all of the suffering, death and injustice going on in the world, if God spent the energy making all these coincidences 'happen', then I have some bigger questions of him. Doesn't it strike you guys as somewhat immature in viewing God and his purpose?

I hear you, and usually would really tend to lean towards your comments. However, in response to your comments, and given the multiple coincidences; I am not saying that God is speaking to the people through Tebow's play, but who am I to say that he isn't. I aslo don't think that it would take much of an effort for God to create these coincidences, probably just a second or a blink or whatever he does. I think that every once in a while he may throw things out there for us to see and consider. It is up to us to know the bible and make decisions for ourselves. He can't make everything peachy and roses just so we will believe. I don't think that would be right. If what he has in store for us is as great as the bible says, then we have to earn it, it can't be just handed to us on a platter.

[Macarthur]

Well, it just seems a little cheesy, for lack of a better term, for God to use statistical coinscidences within a football game to send a message. Especially given that, while a lot of people watched the game, it's really not that many people in the grand scheme of things.

[buff4ever]

Well, it just seems a little cheesy, for lack of a better term, for God to use statistical coinscidences within a football game to send a message. Especially given that, while a lot of people watched the game, it's really not that many people in the grand scheme of things.

And it is all over the radio and web searches are going crazy. If it is the only way to send some small signs to millions of sports fans, it is better than those millions not getting a message in a form that they recognize. Just saying.

[yellaseeker]

Well, that is a remarkable story behind him and even if all of the numbers are coincidental, it matters not to me. If all of this publicity and notorioty gets people closer to god as an end result then it has to be heaven sent in my book. And that's something none of us can get too much of.

[bobcat1]

Okay, I may get in trouble here for playing devil's advocate (no pun intended :) )

With all of the suffering, death and injustice going on in the world, if God spent the energy making all these coincidences 'happen', then I have some bigger questions of him. Doesn't it strike you guys as somewhat immature in viewing God and his purpose?


What "energy"? And NOPE.....:wave: Yep! What energy. I mean he created the heavens and the earth, all the animals, and man in 7 days. Maybe a simple blink of an eye or twitch of a finger caused these. There are no coincidences in life. Each step is pre-determined.

[Eagle 1]

Yes, I think it's overrated for the QB position. I know passion is important, especially in the game of football. But you don't have to be jumping around like a fool to be a leader. There are all kinds of leaders.

Not my writings, but I spent 23 years in the military and I know what it takes to be a good leader;

Although passion is not a prerequisite for leadership but leadership without passion is like leadership with lot of mediocrity. Passion is the fuel that makes a leader a great leader. If you are in an organization and you are not passionate about your job than you can not be a good leader. Because leadership is inspiration and you can not motivate your employees without passion. Passion is the force that set the example of greatness. The main benefit of passion for you is that you do not have to put extra effort to show your leadership because passion itself set example of your great work. If your are passionate than you don`t have to pretend with others that you are a good leader because your passion automatically motivates others.

You can be a leader but you can not be an effective leader without passion. Effective leaders do not lead because they have the titles they lead effectively because they have the passion and they lead with their passion.

Some leaders get confused that people are following them but in reality they are not following the leaders they are following the passion of the leaders. Hence it is clear the more passionate you become the more followers you have. When you see a leader with lot of followers then you see a passionate leader. The more you are loyal with your passion the more loyal and passionate followers you have.

Generally if you see, any kind of work than you will find that nobody can be good at any work without passion. Excellence at any work can only be achieved with passion but when it comes about leadership, than role of passion become more important because in leadership you are not responsible for your excellence but you are responsible excellence of entire team.

[buff4ever]

Not my writings, but I spent 23 years in the military and I know what it takes to be a good leader;

Although passion is not a prerequisite for leadership but leadership without passion is like leadership with lot of mediocrity. Passion is the fuel that makes a leader a great leader. If you are in an organization and you are not passionate about your job than you can not be a good leader. Because leadership is inspiration and you can not motivate your employees without passion. Passion is the force that set the example of greatness. The main benefit of passion for you is that you do not have to put extra effort to show your leadership because passion itself set example of your great work. If your are passionate than you don`t have to pretend with others that you are a good leader because your passion automatically motivates others.

You can be a leader but you can not be an effective leader without passion. Effective leaders do not lead because they have the titles they lead effectively because they have the passion and they lead with their passion.

Some leaders get confused that people are following them but in reality they are not following the leaders they are following the passion of the leaders. Hence it is clear the more passionate you become the more followers you have. When you see a leader with lot of followers then you see a passionate leader. The more you are loyal with your passion the more loyal and passionate followers you have.

Generally if you see, any kind of work than you will find that nobody can be good at any work without passion. Excellence at any work can only be achieved with passion but when it comes about leadership, than role of passion become more important because in leadership you are not responsible for your excellence but you are responsible excellence of entire team.

Well said, and I think Mac knows this, but when it comes to me and a couple others on this board, he thinks it always is about Romo, which it is not. So he was just trying to defend Romo in an underlying kinda way, and it caused him to forget what passion really is. He thought it was going to be about tebo vs romo, and he related passion with tebow as being excited when something goes well vs. Romo. Tebow's excitement may come from his passion, but it isn't what makes him passionate, it is just another personality trait of Tebow's that comes along with the rest of him. Mac technically knows what passion is, he is a smart individual, he sometimes just gets caught up trying to justify ROMO, we can't hold it against him.:):)

[Macarthur]

Not my writings, but I spent 23 years in the military and I know what it takes to be a good leader;

Although passion is not a prerequisite for leadership but leadership without passion is like leadership with lot of mediocrity. Passion is the fuel that makes a leader a great leader. If you are in an organization and you are not passionate about your job than you can not be a good leader. Because leadership is inspiration and you can not motivate your employees without passion. Passion is the force that set the example of greatness. The main benefit of passion for you is that you do not have to put extra effort to show your leadership because passion itself set example of your great work. If your are passionate than you don`t have to pretend with others that you are a good leader because your passion automatically motivates others.

You can be a leader but you can not be an effective leader without passion. Effective leaders do not lead because they have the titles they lead effectively because they have the passion and they lead with their passion.

Some leaders get confused that people are following them but in reality they are not following the leaders they are following the passion of the leaders. Hence it is clear the more passionate you become the more followers you have. When you see a leader with lot of followers then you see a passionate leader. The more you are loyal with your passion the more loyal and passionate followers you have.

Generally if you see, any kind of work than you will find that nobody can be good at any work without passion. Excellence at any work can only be achieved with passion but when it comes about leadership, than role of passion become more important because in leadership you are not responsible for your excellence but you are responsible excellence of entire team.

I don't disagree with your comments. All I'm saying is that passion can manifest itself in a number of different ways. I think some folks have the false impression that passion has to mean obvious outward signs of emotion. I think Tom Landry was a passionate guy, but he was like a duck. Above water, it looks like nothing is going on, but underneath the water, his legs are working like crazy.

[Macarthur]

Well said, and I think Mac knows this, but when it comes to me and a couple others on this board, he thinks it always is about Romo, which it is not. So he was just trying to defend Romo in an underlying kinda way, and it caused him to forget what passion really is. He thought it was going to be about tebo vs romo, and he related passion with tebow as being excited when something goes well vs. Romo. Tebow's excitement may come from his passion, but it isn't what makes him passionate, it is just another personality trait of Tebow's that comes along with the rest of him. Mac technically knows what passion is, he is a smart individual, he sometimes just gets caught up trying to justify ROMO, we can't hold it against him.:):)

Do you understand the term projection? This has nothing to do with Romo and me. I think you are projecting your feelings that you would like Romo to be more like Tebow, whatever that means.

I can post numerous clips of Romo being emotional, jumping up and down, yelling, whatever you want. That's not the point.

[Macarthur]

I think it's quite funny that those that like to hammer on Romo are the one's that have drug him into this thread. You guys accuse us Romo lovers of being obsessed, but I think if one spends some time on this board, it's quite clear those that obsessed with Romo. You guys never pass on an opportunity to point out his flaws.

[buff4ever]

I think it's quite funny that those that like to hammer on Romo are the one's that have drug him into this thread. You guys accuse us Romo lovers of being obsessed, but I think if one spends some time on this board, it's quite clear those that obsessed with Romo. You guys never pass on an opportunity to point out his flaws.

You can say I brought it up becasue I used his name first, but I know what you were setting up. You have used that trick before. You can't tell me that you never thought of Romo when you wrote the post about passion being jumping around and qb's don't need it. I am not that stupid. Maybe stupid, but not that stupid.

[Macarthur]

You can say I brought it up becasue I used his name first, but I know what you were setting up. You have used that trick before. You can't tell me that you never thought of Romo when you wrote the post about passion being jumping around and qb's don't need it. I am not that stupid. Maybe stupid, but not that stupid.

This is an extremely flawed position you are taking. Trick? Laughable. You are assuming you know what I'm going to do when you actually are completely wrong. Actually, I think Romo shows plenty of passion. I've seen him yelling at OL, jumping up and down on TDs, fist pumps, etc.

Of course, none of this matters to you because you have such an incredible bias, you are not even capable of stepping back and being objective about your own opinions.

[Farmersfan]

There are no coincidences in life. Each step is pre-determined.



So there really isn't such a thing as Free Will or Salvation? Since we are all "pre-determined" in our eternal disposition then nothing taught in the Bible has relevance.................. Truly an insightful thought bobcat1! :)

[hollywood]

It's silly that this has turned into a Tebow/Romo thread. lol

[Macarthur]

So there really isn't such a thing as Free Will or Salvation? Since we are all "pre-determined" in our eternal disposition then nothing taught in the Bible has relevance.................. Truly an insightful thought bobcat1! :)

Oh boy, I'm getting my popcorn ready. :)

[Macarthur]

It's silly that this has turned into a Tebow/Romo thread. lol

Agree.

[Farmersfan]

This is an extremely flawed position you are taking. Trick? Laughable. You are assuming you know what I'm going to do when you actually are completely wrong. Actually, I think Romo shows plenty of passion. I've seen him yelling at OL, jumping up and down on TDs, fist pumps, etc.

Of course, none of this matters to you because you have such an incredible bias, you are not even capable of stepping back and being objective about your own opinions.



Yelling at someone without leadership skills is percieved as prima-donna or deva actions. Yelling at someone as a leader inspires them to achieve better results. You might have seen Romo yelling but I can promise that you have never seen him inspire anyone! The simple mechanics of throwing a football is only a small part of what a NFL QB needs to be successful. I think we are seeing from the results where Tebow beats Romo!!!! You can discount it all you want but leadership is probably the biggest single factor for success in the NFL. All players can play! Only a select few are led to play above their heads.

[Macarthur]

You might have seen Romo yelling but I can promise that you have never seen him inspire anyone! I think we are seeing from the results where Tebow beats Romo!!!!

Rubbish.

[Txbroadcaster]

Yelling at someone without leadership skills is percieved as prima-donna or deva actions. Yelling at someone as a leader inspires them to achieve better results. You might have seen Romo yelling but I can promise that you have never seen him inspire anyone! The simple mechanics of throwing a football is only a small part of what a NFL QB needs to be successful. I think we are seeing from the results where Tebow beats Romo!!!! You can discount it all you want but leadership is probably the biggest single factor for success in the NFL. All players can play! Only a select few are led to play above their heads.

So you now have been inside the huddle and know if Romo inspired or not? Even though players have said he has?

[regaleagle]

I think we can all agree football is a team game that is in need of leaders on both offense and defense. I also think we can all agree that Tim Tebow displays his leadership qualities for all to see, and is vocal about giving praise to the Lord Jesus Christ for his successes. Romo has displayed some leadership qualities as well, but is not as vocal, and does not give praise like Tebow does. Nor is his life story anything like Romo's. That should not be taken to knock Romo, or even compare him to Tebow. We should all be humbled to compare our own lives to that of Tim Tebow. I for one am very pleased to have a qb in the NFL display the conviction and set an example for others to remind us all, or in some cases, teach some of us, what really matters while we live and breathe in these flesh bodies. Not all of us will have a ministry, but we can all point to Tim Tebow as an example of a person that will let the light of Jesus Christ shine in his life to impact a part of the world that he can. The message is clear. We are each responsible for our own choices and salvation. Tim Tebow is exercising his free will for the greater glory of Jesus Christ his Lord and Savior, and should be commended. Romo's abilities, qualities, and convictions may be different. This thread is not about Romo.

[Farmersfan]

Rubbish.



The proof is in the pudding Mac! We have a whole bowl of the stuff that is loaded with bananas and whipped cream for Romo but only a single Snack Pack for Tebow. Still a lot football to be played by both players but based on what we have seen so far I think there isn't a single doubt that Tebow is inspiring greater effort out of his teammates.

[Macarthur]

There are few direct quotes in these articles that would say Romo is an inspiring figure.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2008/09/11/899904/a-fine-sunday-indeed-for-tony.html


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/6990608/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-toughness-changes-perceptions

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/dez-bryant-on-why-he-played-vs.html

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7025255/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-grit-symbolizes-jason-garrett-attitude

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/roger-staubach-tony-romo-tim-tebow-colts-andrew-luck_n_1079929.html

[Farmersfan]

So you now have been inside the huddle and know if Romo inspired or not? Even though players have said he has?


Pudding TXB! Check out the pudding!

[ronwx5x]

The big to-do over Tim Tebow's beliefs seem to come from the media. I have never seen him proselytize or be overbearing in his witness. Yes, he painted scriptural references on his face while in college but I find that much more acceptable than some of the tattoos celebrities wear that contain "expletive deleted" words. Same goes for overtly sexual or crass t-shirts people wear. Would the NFL complain if he chose to put swear words on his face or tattoos?

[Farmersfan]

There are few direct quotes in these articles that would say Romo is an inspiring figure.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2008/09/11/899904/a-fine-sunday-indeed-for-tony.html


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/6990608/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-toughness-changes-perceptions

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/09/dez-bryant-on-why-he-played-vs.html

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7025255/dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-grit-symbolizes-jason-garrett-attitude

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/08/roger-staubach-tony-romo-tim-tebow-colts-andrew-luck_n_1079929.html



Seriously, You post links to 5 random stories that prove nothing in a 6 year career as proof that Romo inspires his teammates? I was referring to 6 years of underachievement by the team he is supposed to lead. I'm not putting all the blame on Romo because there is only so much he could do by himself but he also isn't without blame. And I get really, really tired of always hearing about how Romo is a Superbowl QB if they get the right people around him. Guess what? Any NFL QB is a Superbowl QB if they get the right people around him. At some point a QB has to win with what he has. That is what Tebow is doing. This is exactly the same team that Kyle Orton led to a 1-4 record and had bottom of the league numbers in both offense and defense. Nothing changed on that team except the QB! That is all I have ever said about Romo. I don't think he is the answer and for people to keep saying he is a winner IF they get the right people around him is a bit of lunacy. The question is how much should a QB have around him before he is expected to win? I personally feel Romo has been beyond that point his entire career in Dallas. It's obvious you feel differently. The Cowboys will make a large number of offseason moves to try to fix the problem and bring back the same QB that has not gotten it done for 6 seasons. I don't know who would be better but it certainly would be preferrable to try someone else to another season like we have seen for Romo's entire career.

[Macarthur]

Seriously, You post links to 5 random stories that prove nothing in a 6 year career as proof that Romo inspires his teammates? I was referring to 6 years of underachievement by the team he is supposed to lead. I'm not putting all the blame on Romo because there is only so much he could do by himself but he also isn't without blame. And I get really, really tired of always hearing about how Romo is a Superbowl QB if they get the right people around him. Guess what? Any NFL QB is a Superbowl QB if they get the right people around him. At some point a QB has to win with what he has. That is what Tebow is doing. This is exactly the same team that Kyle Orton led to a 1-4 record and had bottom of the league numbers in both offense and defense. Nothing changed on that team except the QB! That is all I have ever said about Romo. I don't think he is the answer and for people to keep saying he is a winner IF they get the right people around him is a bit of lunacy. The question is how much should a QB have around him before he is expected to win? I personally feel Romo has been beyond that point his entire career in Dallas. It's obvious you feel differently. The Cowboys will make a large number of offseason moves to try to fix the problem and bring back the same QB that has not gotten it done for 6 seasons. I don't know who would be better but it certainly would be preferrable to try someone else to another season like we have seen for Romo's entire career.

Dez Bryant's exact quote was, "I had to play. Tony inspired me." You said he never inspired anyone. I can go back and get that quote if you would like me to. The fact is, you are wrong because teammates have been quoted as saying Tony inspired them. You are wrong.

[Farmersfan]

The big to-do over Tim Tebow's beliefs seem to come from the media. I have never seen him proselytize or be overbearing in his witness. Yes, he painted scriptural references on his face while in college but I find that much more acceptable than some of the tattoos celebrities wear that contain "expletive deleted" words. Same goes for overtly sexual or crass t-shirts people wear. Would the NFL complain if he chose to put swear words on his face or tattoos?



I do wonder aloud what your response would be if Tebow were actually a Muslim and praising Allah instead of Jesus Christ? or even worse, a Satanist who wanted the world to know the he feels Satan gave him the tools to succeed in the NFL? I think we would see a completely different outcry from the very same people who are cuddling Tebow now!

[Macarthur]

I do wonder aloud what your response would be if Tebow were actually a Muslim and praising Allah instead of Jesus Christ? or even worse, a Satanist who wanted the world to know the he feels Satan gave him the tools to succeed in the NFL? I think we would see a completely different outcry from the very same people who are cuddling Tebow now!

I think this is an interesting point. If after a TD, a player named Muhammed pulled out his rug and bowed to the east, would there still be so many people supporting him for his outward signs of faith?

[Farmersfan]

Dez Bryant's exact quote was, "I had to play. Tony inspired me." You said he never inspired anyone. I can go back and get that quote if you would like me to. The fact is, you are wrong because teammates have been quoted as saying Tony inspired them. You are wrong.



I'm also pretty sure you can find player quotes that support Packman Jones, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson and hundreds of other players. Did you JUST NOW start watching Pro Football and listening to what they say in the media? And you are aware that Dez also said he pays his bills, doesn't take plays off, runs great routes, doesn't disappear in the second half and doesn't let his pants sag in department stores?

[Farmersfan]

I think this is an interesting point. If after a TD, a player named Muhammed pulled out his rug and bowed to the east, would there still be so many people supporting him for his outward signs of faith?



We both know the answer to this Mac. For most people the acceptance of what Tebow is doing is almost entirely wrapped up in the agreement with his message. Change the message and you would change the acceptance.

[Macarthur]

I'm also pretty sure you can find player quotes that support Packman Jones, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson and hundreds of other players. Did you JUST NOW start watching Pro Football and listening to what they say in the media? And you are aware that Dez also said he pays his bills, doesn't take plays off, runs great routes, doesn't disappear in the second half and doesn't let his pants sag in department stores?

You can diss Dez all you want, but his exact quote was that Romo inspired him. You said Romo never inspired anyone. Therefore, your point has been PROVEN false.

If you want to argue that Tebow is a better leader or more inspirational than Romo, that's a different discussion. But your bias was of full display when you said "Romo has never inspired anyone". That was your exact quote.

[Txbroadcaster]

I'm also pretty sure you can find player quotes that support Packman Jones, Terrell Owens, Tank Johnson and hundreds of other players. Did you JUST NOW start watching Pro Football and listening to what they say in the media? And you are aware that Dez also said he pays his bills, doesn't take plays off, runs great routes, doesn't disappear in the second half and doesn't let his pants sag in department stores?

So what ur saying is..players we only accept as being good can tell us who inspires them..

[Farmersfan]

You can diss Dez all you want, but his exact quote was that Romo inspired him. You said Romo never inspired anyone. Therefore, your point has been PROVEN false.

If you want to argue that Tebow is a better leader or more inspirational than Romo, that's a different discussion. But your bias was of full display when you said "Romo has never inspired anyone". That was your exact quote.


So since we are being so technical Mac then wouldn't we need to SEE inspiration instead of simply taking someone's word for it? My original point still stands. Dez can say he was inspired until the cows come home but until his play on the field indicates it then it didn't happen. NEXT.................

[Farmersfan]

So what ur saying is..players we only accept as being good can tell us who inspires them..



Put down the peppermint schnapps TXB! Read the posts again. The point I was making was that even the worse players on this team had other players who said good things about them in the media. Players don't throw each other under the bus. It's considered bad Karma!

[Roughneck93]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRc0WpneRzhRb-yFiovjmZWILylS5_6E8cij_r7fDBBfdAkcURXJWikw_wKxA

[OldNavy]

I think to some degree that Tebow can be compared with Mohamed Ali. Ali is not a Christian, but he had the courage of his convictions and more often than not, found a way to win. There were praisers and detractors, but there were very few that didn't have an opinion about Ali. Tebow also has praisers and detractors. He has the courage of his convictions and he more often than not, finds a way to win. There are very few that don't have an opinion about him. Whether a praiser or detractor, I think people admired that Ali stood up for his convictions, and I think people admire Tebow for the same reasons. I don't think you have to be a fan to admire that someone is couragous, has fight and spirit.

Both were or are marketing machines.

Ali said "I am the greatest!"

Tebow said "God is the greatest!"

[Macarthur]

I think to some degree that Tebow can be compared with Mohamed Ali. Ali is not a Christian, but he had the courage of his convictions and more often than not, found a way to win. There were praisers and detractors, but there were very few that didn't have an opinion about Ali. Tebow also has praisers and detractors. He has the courage of his convictions and he more often than not, finds a way to win. There are very few that don't have an opinion about him. Whether a praiser or detractor, I think people admired that Ali stood up for his convictions, and I think people admire Tebow for the same reasons. I don't think you have to be a fan to admire that someone is couragous, has fight and spirit.

Both were or are marketing machines.

Ali said "I am the greatest!"

Tebow said "God is the greatest!"

I think you're glossing over the reaction to Ali a bit. Things have changed, but back in the day, Ali was not lauded for his convictions. He was roundly criticized for everything from a traitor to a rasicst.

I think it's safe to say that a big part of the population HATED Ali.

[STANG RED]

I do wonder aloud what your response would be if Tebow were actually a Muslim and praising Allah instead of Jesus Christ? or even worse, a Satanist who wanted the world to know the he feels Satan gave him the tools to succeed in the NFL? I think we would see a completely different outcry from the very same people who are cuddling Tebow now!
I think you are 100% correct!
But then again, this country wasn’t founded by Christian hating Muslims or Satanists. But I can say with complete confidence, if this was a Muslim country, Tebow would have already been publicly executed, and his remains left on display for the dogs to eat. Therefore, in my mind, your comparison carries no validity with it.

[Macarthur]

So since we are being so technical Mac then wouldn't we need to SEE inspiration instead of simply taking someone's word for it? My original point still stands. Dez can say he was inspired until the cows come home but until his play on the field indicates it then it didn't happen. NEXT.................

Actually, Dez had a very nice year in his second year. Brian Broaddus said as the year went along that Dez was getting much much better at his route running. Of course, that won't be good enough for you. How about Witten? If Witten said Romo inspired him, would that work for you?

[Macarthur]

I think you are 100% correct!
But then again, this country wasn’t founded by Christian hating Muslims or Satanists. But I can say with complete confidence, if this was a Muslim country, Tebow would have already been publicly executed, and his remains left on display for the dogs to eat. Therefore, in my mind, your comparison carries no validity with it.

Wait, so is he 100% correct or his comparison holds no validity?

You need to tap the breaks a bit. I have known and work with many Muslims and I have yet to meet one that is ' Christian Hating'. You are right that Tebow would not be well received in a Muslim country. So what? We're in America and that's what makes America great.

[STANG RED]

He was 100% correct; the same people cuddling Tebow now, would have a completely different outcry if he were a Muslim or Satanists. And I still think he is 100% correct. But then I went on to explain why, which I think explained why his comparison is not valid. You may not think so. I’ll try to live with your disapproval.
What I said after that, was just a follow up thought, that by the way, I also believe is 100% accurate. Lots of Arab Christians have been executed by their governments, for doing nothing more than handing out Bibles.
Keep in mind also, you probably only know Americanized Muslims, who are probably here because they disagree with the radicals running the Muslim country they came from. I'm not saying these people are Christian haters. If they were, I doubt they would have come here in the first place.

[Macarthur]

He was 100% correct; the same people cuddling Tebow now, would have a completely different outcry if he were a Muslim or Satanists. And I still think he is 100% correct. But then I went on to explain why, which I think explained why his comparison is not valid. You may not think so. I’ll try to live with your disapproval.

Okay, I'm confused. What comparison do you disagree with?


What I said after that, was just a follow up thought, that by the way, I also believe is 100% accurate. Lots of Arab Christians have been executed by their governments, for doing nothing more than handing out Bibles.

Agree.


Keep in mind also, you probably only know Americanized Muslims, who are probably here because they disagree with the radicals running the Muslim country they came from. I'm not saying these people are Christian haters. If they were, I doubt they would have come here in the first place.

Reversing the thinking, how many Christian hating muslims do you know?

See, I think we make the mistake of thinking that because these folks have radical leadership, all the citizens feel the same way. I've had lengthy conversations with Muslims and, for the most part, the average everyday Muslim gives very little thought to Americans. I just think you need to be careful in using blanket statements such as Christian hating muslims because while there are radical factions, I believe the vast majoirty of ME citizens spend very little of their time day to day thinking about us, much less 'hating' us.

[waterboy]

I think the comparison he was making is if it were a Christian in a Muslim country standing up for what he believes in he would be executed, while a Muslim can stand up for what he believes in in this country and he would just be frowned upon - not executed. We live in a great country, don't we?

[Macarthur]

I think the comparison he was making is if it were a Christian in a Muslim country standing up for what he believes in he would be executed, while a Muslim can stand up for what he believes in in this country and he would just be frowned upon - not executed. We live in a great country, don't we?

Yes. If that's what was being said, I don't disagree with that. But I'm still a bit confused because I don't think farmer was making the opposite case.

[ronwx5x]

I do wonder aloud what your response would be if Tebow were actually a Muslim and praising Allah instead of Jesus Christ? or even worse, a Satanist who wanted the world to know the he feels Satan gave him the tools to succeed in the NFL? I think we would see a completely different outcry from the very same people who are cuddling Tebow now!

I would feel the same as I do about Tim Tebow. If a person is sincere you usually can sense it. Why are you so set against his expression of faith? Is it threatening or offensive? Not to me.

If a muslim took out a prayer rug, where would he take it out from? Tebow brings no props.

[yellaseeker]

Well, i sure hope there is never as many christian people that misinterpret their bibles and start killin infidels ( non believers) by the thousands. I'm not comfortable with our situation here in america just like many others and not afraid to express it. Toss this around in your mind for a little while. If muslims aren't willing to stand up and fight for their own country what makes anyone think they'll fight to their death for america. If we have an all out holy war at home which side will they support and knowing that how would you know which american muslims to trust not to blow your head off. Some people need to get their head out of the sand. Like it's been said before, "wake up america". Our nation has become too tolerant and liberal.

I'm off my soap box now. Really wish this thread would have stayed on the same track it started on. Was a great read till it turned into comparison between christians and muslims.

[STANG RED]

Okay, I'm confused. What comparison do you disagree with?



Agree.



Reversing the thinking, how many Christian hating muslims do you know?

See, I think we make the mistake of thinking that because these folks have radical leadership, all the citizens feel the same way. I've had lengthy conversations with Muslims and, for the most part, the average everyday Muslim gives very little thought to Americans. I just think you need to be careful in using blanket statements such as Christian hating muslims because while there are radical factions, I believe the vast majoirty of ME citizens spend very little of their time day to day thinking about us, much less 'hating' us.

I think you took it that I said all Muslims are Christian haters. But I never said any such thing. I was only refering to the Christian hating Muslims, which I'm very well aware does not include all Muslims.
Having said that; I'm sorry I even brought it up. This isnt the place to be discussing such matters anyway. My apologies to the board.

[Eagle 1]

Back to the subject.

I heard of Tebow when he played in college, I never heard of Romo.
That alone is "insperation" to me.

[Macarthur]

Back to the subject.

I heard of Tebow when he played in college, I never heard of Romo.
That alone is "insperation" to me.

So much fail here...

[hollywood]

So much fail here...

In the eyes of the majority...

Romo is fail... good? yes, but not what he made JJ think he was.
Tebow, successful. Why? he's a winner. He's got the "it" factor, whatever that is.

It's as simple as that. Slice and dice it however you want with stats and quotes. Romo will go down in history as the QB that coulda/shoulda and Tebow has his whole career ahead of him.

:D

[Macarthur]

:crazy:

[Eagle 1]

Originally Posted by Eagle 1
Back to the subject.

I heard of Tebow when he played in college, I never heard of Romo.
That alone is "insperation" to me.


So much fail here...

How is that? I'm serious, I never heard of Romo before he became a backup qb at Dallas.
Tebow was a known name in NCAA sports world. Romo wasn't.

[Macarthur]

How is that? I'm serious, I never heard of Romo before he became a backup qb at Dallas.
Tebow was a known name in NCAA sports world. Romo wasn't.

How is that inspiring (notice I spelled it right)? :)

Seriously, what does their college situation have to do with it? Walter Payton was from a small school. Mean Joe Green was from a small school; so was Larry Allen.

[buff4ever]

Mac, I ask you one question. With whatever happens in the future, no matter how many receivers, different lineman, or running backs we try; if romo never produces.......will you ever admit that you MAY have been wrong on him? That is all we want to hear you type. If you think he has proven himself already no matter what happens, then you are very mistaken. If you think he can still prove himself in the future as a true winner and leader of the dallas cowboys, then you keep living your dream out on this board. But don't do it with such blinders on, sometimes you go over board and leave common sense behind to make a point that none of us are stupid enough to buy.

I personally wanted to jump on board with the no name guy with a sheepish grin, just happy to be playing for america's team with a care free attitude and ride it to the promise land. I got off board a long time ago.

One difference for sure, and probably many others, between tebow and ali; I think no one can argue that ali had the mad skills to dominate in his profession. I think everyone can question tebow's skills as a NFL qb, but yet he still finds a way sometimes. Maybe that is proof that he is a better motivator and leader, maybe it is something else. Definitely he is a leader, other players respond to him even with the cheesy behavior.

[Macarthur]

Mac, I ask you one question. With whatever happens in the future, no matter how many receivers, different lineman, or running backs we try; if romo never produces.......will you ever admit that you MAY have been wrong on him? That is all we want to hear you type. If you think he has proven himself already no matter what happens, then you are very mistaken. If you think he can still prove himself in the future as a true winner and leader of the dallas cowboys, then you keep living your dream out on this board. But don't do it with such blinders on, sometimes you go over board and leave common sense behind to make a point that none of us are stupid enough to buy.

This is a very loaded request. My position is very clear.

Romo is a very good QB (not perfect, but very good) and he is more than capable of leading a team to a championship. Teams have won SBs with much lesser QBs than Romo. What happens from here on out is really irrelevant. If Romo retires and the Cowboys have not won a SB, it will not change my feelings that I posted above. What I try to explain to you guys is that while QB is very important, there are so many other team variables involved that it's frankly childish and immature thinking to simply take the position of 'if Romo is the QB, they will never win anything'. There is a story right now about how Flacco is taking heat for not being very good. I find it funny how many folks put Flacco above Romo simply becuase his teams have had better results. When in reality, Flacco isn't even in the same league as Romo. If Romo had that Balt defense, I have no doubt in my mind that any talk of him not being a winner would be thoroughly dismissed.

With regards to Tebow, I don't dislike him. But here's something that is just weird how things are 'perceived'. The week of the first Giants game, Romo had the best passer rating of any losing QB in NFL HISTORY! and leads his team to 34 points. Tebow completes barely 50% of his passes, scored ZERO points for 57+ minutes of the game, needs a 59 yard FG as time expires to send the game to OT and needs a horrific fumble and dumb running out of bounds plays by MBII to pull out a win. HOWEVER, Tebow is labeled a winner and everyone says about Romo 'well, same old Romo. Can't get it done in the clutch'. It's symptomatic of how people take such a supperficial look at virtually everything.

[hollywood]

How many more seasons are left in Romo?

[Txbroadcaster]

Mac, I ask you one question. With whatever happens in the future, no matter how many receivers, different lineman, or running backs we try; if romo never produces.......will you ever admit that you MAY have been wrong on him? That is all we want to hear you type. If you think he has proven himself already no matter what happens, then you are very mistaken. If you think he can still prove himself in the future as a true winner and leader of the dallas cowboys, then you keep living your dream out on this board. But don't do it with such blinders on, sometimes you go over board and leave common sense behind to make a point that none of us are stupid enough to buy.

I personally wanted to jump on board with the no name guy with a sheepish grin, just happy to be playing for america's team with a care free attitude and ride it to the promise land. I got off board a long time ago.

One difference for sure, and probably many others, between tebow and ali; I think no one can argue that ali had the mad skills to dominate in his profession. I think everyone can question tebow's skills as a NFL qb, but yet he still finds a way sometimes. Maybe that is proof that he is a better motivator and leader, maybe it is something else. Definitely he is a leader, other players respond to him even with the cheesy behavior.


I think this is the crux of the debate...one side believes the only way Romo is a good QB is if he wins a title...the other side( one I am on) does not think winning a SB is the end all be all in deciding if a QB is good or not

[Txbroadcaster]

How many more seasons are left in Romo?

I think 3 more years of top production and 5 overall if he wants to play that long

[Saggy Aggie]

+1 I don't think winning a SB is the deciding factor if you're a great QB/winner.

Everyone considered Peyton a Great QB before he won his title. And sure they think even more of him now because he's won a SB but what about guys like Dilfer? He's a winner and a great QB because his team won a SB? No. It's all about supporting cast.

If the texans had romo this year... They'd prolly be the favorite to win the SB and he'd be considered a winner and a great QB, but because he plays for Dallas and the supporting cast isn't as good as a team like Houston's... He's not.

[GrTigers6]

The thing to remember about Romo and Tebow is Romo had the same support his first season as Tebow does now. The difference is Romo actually earned it where tebow got it from the media, luck & fans support. Tebow's numbers as a whole are horrible, Yes he played better sunday but still cant say that he played well. He missed badly on several passes and two of which would have won the game or at least got them in field goal range to win.
Tebow is a great ahtlete, QB is still a big ?
Romo has been consistantly good with a mediocre team, And yes with his share of mistakes. but still has good overall numbers.
Anyone ever look at Elway's numbers to see how long it took him to win a Superbowl? Does that mean he sucked until he won or would have not made the hall of fame if he hadnt won it? Or what about Jim Kelly, Same thing but he didnt win won so does that mean he wasnt a leader or a great QB?
Like Mac said. It takes chemistry, teamwork, and talent to win a superbowl. Not just a QB

[Txbroadcaster]

+1 I don't think winning a SB is the deciding factor if you're a great QB/winner.

Everyone considered Peyton a Great QB before he won his title. And sure they think even more of him now because he's won a SB but what about guys like Dilfer? He's a winner and a great QB because his team won a SB? No. It's all about supporting cast.

If the texans had romo this year... They'd prolly be the favorite to win the SB and he'd be considered a winner and a great QB, but because he plays for Dallas and the supporting cast isn't as good as a team like Houston's... He's not.


only one QB I can think of that got to SBs with less than steller talent was Elway, and he lost those SBs until he got better talent around him, then BOOM he wins 2 of them

[Macarthur]

How many more seasons are left in Romo?

probably 3 to 5.

[hollywood]

I think this is the crux of the debate...one side believes the only way Romo is a good QB is if he wins a title...the other side( one I am on) does not think winning a SB is the end all be all in deciding if a QB is good or not

I don't think a QB has to win or even make it to the SB to be considered great. Marino is a prime example. Romo is good. Great, no. He's got the tools but is kind of like a lazy lion... he's not going to put out the gifted ability for the hunt until he finally gets hungry enough and has a solid pride to back him up.

Favre, he was a great QB. Many like to compare Romo to him because he idolized him growing up. Not in the same league IMO.

Romo will be remembered as the Cowboy QB that struggled to win in the playoffs not because of his lack of ability, but because he didn't have enough talent to support him.

[Txbroadcaster]

I don't think a QB has to win or even make it to the SB to be considered great. Marino is a prime example. Romo is good. Great, no. He's got the tools but is kind of like a lazy lion... he's not going to put out the gifted ability for the hunt until he finally gets hungry enough.

Favre, he was a great QB. Many like to compare Romo to him because he idolized him growing up. Not in the same league IMO.

Romo will be remembered as the Cowboy QB that struggled to win in the playoffs not because of his lack of ability, but because he didn't have enough talent to support him.


this is one of the biggest issues I have with whole Romo thing...NOTHING in his career has shown he is lazy, or does not work hard, yet that is the image of him...this was a undrafted free agent who is now one of the top 10-13 QBs in the league, that shows he works his arse off, yet people act like he does not

[buff4ever]

I have never said you have to win a super bowl to be considered a great qb. I do think you need to prove that you can win some big games in the moment, where he has at times lost games that were all but won in the moment. Also you guys have all made statements that don't support your side, you just don't realize it. You use words like chemistry, and come together as a team; things that it seems the cowboys haven't had since he is the OFFENSIVE LEADER OF THIS TEAM. Baltimore defenses are rare, very rare, they have sacrificed big opportunities to get offensive players in order to supplement and better their defense. A decision that team has made for itself, not many teams have a defense of that caliber. Yes romo could have won with that defense, but that doesn't mean he would look much better than flacco, but he would look better. Heck, the pressure of leading the ravens and pulling that team together isn't even on flacco, but most teams put that pressure on their qb to lead the offense and take most of the pressure. The cowboys have done it forever, and romo has yet to step up and prove he can do it.

So if we ignore all of the reality, I guess that we could trade him to a team with a shutdown defense and a couple good enough receivers that he could put up 21 points without the pressure, they might win a super bowl, and then we can call him great. TO BE HONEST, I don't care how many superbowls flacco might end with, he isn't the leader of that team nor a great qb. Romo is SUPPOSE to lead the cowboy offense and team for that matter at this point (I think there are some up and coming leaders on the defense) and he isn't doing it terribly successfully. That is why he is just a good qb and not a great qb. Romo would be great on a well established team with already set leaders in place, that would let him lead the offense while they lead the team with leadership that works.

[hollywood]

probably 3 to 5.

I think he's got 3 tops... depending on his health, physical and mental. ;)

[Macarthur]

Romo is good. Great, no. He's got the tools but is kind of like a lazy lion... he's not going to put out the gifted ability for the hunt until he finally gets hungry enough and has a solid pride to back him up.

This is where the anti-Romo folks go off track, IMO. This is completely based on emotion and how you feel. This is not based in any sort of data. Ironically, that's the exact thing that you guys accuse the 'Romo lovers'.


Favre, he was a great QB. Many like to compare Romo to him because he idolized him growing up. Not in the same league IMO.

And see here's the really irrational thing about this, IMO. I think your description above could apply to Favre MUCH more than Romo. Many people think that Favre should have won several SBs instead of one. If there was any QB that 'didn't work hard' late in their career, it was Favre. Favre is much more talented than Romo which I think is more of a knock on Favre.

I'm not arguing that Romo is better than Favre, but I do think it's interesting to make some comparisons. You can't compare total numbers because Favre played for a ridiculous number of years, but here's each guys AVERAGE season:

Favre 62% comp 3780 YDS 26 TDs 17 INTs 86 QB rating
Romo 64.5% comp 3472 YDS 25 TDs 12 INTs 96.9 QB rating

Again, I'm not saying Romo is better but these numbers are interesting. Especially when you paint in against the backdrop that many folks, myself included, believe Favre actually should have won more than he did. Would you actually believe Favre underachieved to an extent? I know that sound funny on the surface, but I actually find it amazing that in 20 years, he only won one SB.

[Macarthur]

I have never said you have to win a super bowl to be considered a great qb. I do think you need to prove that you can win some big games in the moment, where he has at times lost games that were all but won in the moment.

Of course, you guys keep moving the target. When he does win a big game, you move the goal post. Of course he's lost some games. Show me a QB that hasn't.


Also you guys have all made statements that don't support your side, you just don't realize it.

I'm certainly not perfect. However, I do expect when I make a mistake that someone corrects me based on some sort of data or sound reasoning.

[hollywood]

this is one of the biggest issues I have with whole Romo thing...NOTHING in his career has shown he is lazy, or does not work hard, yet that is the image of him...this was a undrafted free agent who is now one of the top 10-13 QBs in the league, that shows he works his arse off, yet people act like he does not

Haha.. I don't have any issues with the whole Romo thing.. Everyone has their opinion and what is perceived by some may be perceived differently by others. And this has obviously been the case.

I didn't say Romo was lazy. It's just a silly analogy meaning there is more ability in there than what's being displayed.

I beleive Romo is already thinking about the good ole days... he's 31, has a hot wife and about to have his first child. Has a fat salary to live very very comfortable for the rest of his life. I envy the guy in all honesty. If he stays healthy over the next couple of years, he's checking out. He's been dreaming about that celebrity golf tour and shooting the bull with his buddies. I don't think he loves the game that much to stick around much longer. Just my 2 cents.

[hollywood]

This is where the anti-Romo folks go off track, IMO. This is completely based on emotion and how you feel. This is not based in any sort of data. Ironically, that's the exact thing that you guys accuse the 'Romo lovers'.



And see here's the really irrational thing about this, IMO. I think your description above could apply to Favre MUCH more than Romo. Many people think that Favre should have won several SBs instead of one. If there was any QB that 'didn't work hard' late in their career, it was Favre. Favre is much more talented than Romo which I think is more of a knock on Favre.

I'm not arguing that Romo is better than Favre, but I do think it's interesting to make some comparisons. You can't compare total numbers because Favre played for a ridiculous number of years, but here's each guys AVERAGE season:

Favre 62% comp 3780 YDS 26 TDs 17 INTs 86 QB rating
Romo 64.5% comp 3472 YDS 25 TDs 12 INTs 96.9 QB rating

Again, I'm not saying Romo is better but these numbers are interesting. Especially when you paint in against the backdrop that many folks, myself included, believe Favre actually should have won more than he did. Would you actually believe Favre underachieved to an extent? I know that sound funny on the surface, but I actually find it amazing that in 20 years, he only won one SB.

Again, paper stats can make you appear to be better than another. Are NFL QB's paid to pad their stats or win playoff games in hopes of a Super Bowl?

[Macarthur]

Haha.. I don't have any issues with the whole Romo thing.. Everyone has their opinion and what is perceived by some may be perceived differently by others. And this has obviously been the case.

I didn't say Romo was lazy. It's just a silly analogy meaning there is more ability in there than what's being displayed.

I beleive Romo is already thinking about the good ole days... he's 31, has a hot wife and about to have his first child. Has a fat salary to live very very comfortable for the rest of his life. I envy the guy in all honesty. If he stays healthy over the next couple of years, he's checking out. He's been dreaming about that celebrity golf tour and shooting the bull with his buddies. I don't think he loves the game that much to stick around much longer. Just my 2 cents.

I rest my case.

[Txbroadcaster]

Haha.. I don't have any issues with the whole Romo thing.. Everyone has their opinion and what is perceived by some may be perceived differently by others. And this has obviously been the case.

I didn't say Romo was lazy. It's just a silly analogy meaning there is more ability in there than what's being displayed.

I beleive Romo is already thinking about the good ole days... he's 31, has a hot wife and about to have his first child. Has a fat salary to live very very comfortable for the rest of his life. I envy the guy in all honesty. If he stays healthy over the next couple of years, he's checking out. He's been dreaming about that celebrity golf tour and shooting the bull with his buddies. I don't think he loves the game that much to stick around much longer. Just my 2 cents.

And I think the exact opposite..he is a UFA that went from nowhere to be a starter and a top 13 QB, that shows me he has went above and beyond his ability..therefore his hardwork and dedication has taken him from a roster spot to one of the better QBs

[buff4ever]

And I think the exact opposite..he is a UFA that went from nowhere to be a starter and a top 13 QB, that shows me he has went above and beyond his ability..therefore his hardwork and dedication has taken him from a roster spot to one of the better QBs

He is a talented individual. No one can deny he has the capability and the skills. Mentally he lacks toughness, and he isn't the best leader for the Dallas Cowboys. He came along at a time we needed him desperately. I mean quincy carter, has beens, and no bodies. Romo comes in with the ability to make throws and plays those guys could only dream of, so he was obviously the best option. He however has never had what it takes to be the guy to lead this team to compete for great things. He is probably as happy as some of you to be a successful stat guy, I would prefer to have the big game guy that puts us in a better position to win some stats romo is lacking.

[Bullaholic]

Not trying to prove anything one way or the other on the Romo discussion, but following link (2nd article down on page) is a writer's view on the Romo question expressing some of the ideas posted by some 3ADL posters:

http://thelandryhat.com/

[Macarthur]

Not trying to prove anything one way or the other on the Romo discussion, but following link (2nd article down on page) is a writer's view on the Romo question expressing some of the ideas posted by some 3ADL posters:

http://thelandryhat.com/

Yeah, no idiocy in that article when the guy basically says he could pass the ball as well as Romo. What a tool.

[GrTigers6]

He is a talented individual. No one can deny he has the capability and the skills. Mentally he lacks toughness, and he isn't the best leader for the Dallas Cowboys. He came along at a time we needed him desperately. I mean quincy carter, has beens, and no bodies. Romo comes in with the ability to make throws and plays those guys could only dream of, so he was obviously the best option. He however has never had what it takes to be the guy to lead this team to compete for great things. He is probably as happy as some of you to be a successful stat guy, I would prefer to have the big game guy that puts us in a better position to win some stats romo is lacking.How in the Hell can you say Romo lacks toughness????? He played with a puntured lung and two broken ribs. And that was just this year. He puts his team in position to win and they either miss the field goal or the defense gives it up, 80% of the time

[buff4ever]

How in the Hell can you say Romo lacks toughness????? He played with a puntured lung and two broken ribs. And that was just this year. He puts his team in position to win and they either miss the field goal or the defense gives it up, 80% of the time

Mentally!!

Sometimes I think you hurt the other sides argument more than you help.

[buff4ever]

Yeah, no idiocy in that article when the guy basically says he could pass the ball as well as Romo. What a tool.

See this is what you like to do. You sit back and try and pick out one thing to discredit an argument against romo, no matter how much since or validity there might be.

The guy said he also could pass the ball, he never said he could pass better than romo. He even credits romo for being a good passer. He is only pointing out that that doesn't make him a winner alone.

[GrTigers6]

Mentally!!

Sometimes I think you hurt the other sides argument more than you help.You think if you play hurt your not playing metally tough too? Have you ever played anything that took skill? You cant play hurt and not be mentally tough!

[buff4ever]

You think if you play hurt your not playing metally tough too? Have you ever played anything that took skill? You cant play hurt and not be mentally tough!

If playing hurt physically, proves you are mentally tough (which it can, but not always).....Then I could come up with mental breakdowns in toughness that add up to more than your physically tough mental moments to prove he isn't as mentally tough as you think.

[GrTigers6]

If playing hurt physically, proves you are mentally tough (which it can, but not always).....Then I could come up with mental breakdowns in toughness that add up to more than your physically tough mental moments to prove he isn't as mentally tough as you think.Waiting?:sleeping::smoker: Patiently :D

[Bullaholic]

If playing hurt physically, proves you are mentally tough (which it can, but not always).....Then I could come up with mental breakdowns in toughness that add up to more than your physically tough mental moments to prove he isn't as mentally tough as you think.

Oh, yeah--I call your fumbled hold, and raise you a punctured lung...:D

(Sorry Buff--my supressed Groucho Marx personna got the best of me momentarily...)

[Macarthur]

See this is what you like to do. You sit back and try and pick out one thing to discredit an argument against romo, no matter how much since or validity there might be.

The guy said he also could pass the ball, he never said he could pass better than romo. He even credits romo for being a good passer. He is only pointing out that that doesn't make him a winner alone.

Comon, the guy completely downplayed and dismissed the fact that he's a good passer. That article had a clear biased tone to it.

[STANG RED]

Can admin please change the thread title to "Romo". ;)

[hollywood]

Goes to show how the masses are drawn to train wrecks more so than successes.

[buff4ever]

Oh, yeah--I call your fumbled hold, and raise you a punctured lung...:D

(Sorry Buff--my supressed Groucho Marx personna got the best of me momentarily...)

Atleast you showed him wat mental breakdown in toughness is, we have stated all of romo's examples over the past 2 months, and I don't think he considers them mental, so we should count them against his good throwing stats I guess. I don't see them docking his scores on stats with all the bad examples. So let's call them what they are mental toughness breakdowns. The main reason he can't get over the hump. (if i start listing, it would be beating a dead horse more than we do already around here)

By the way, I liked your post, thought it was pretty funny.

[hollywood]

See this is what you like to do. You sit back and try and pick out one thing to discredit an argument against romo, no matter how much since or validity there might be.

The guy said he also could pass the ball, he never said he could pass better than romo. He even credits romo for being a good passer. He is only pointing out that that doesn't make him a winner alone.

:thumbsup:

[BaseballUmp]

#TeamTebow

[buff4ever]

To get back on topic, I would be interested to see who is pulling for the broncos to beat the patriots. I will start a new thread with a poll. Please come vote, and give the reason.

[Eagle 1]

Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?

At the end of the day, the only STAT that matters is the W/L column.

T=W
R=L

A friend of mine from Idaho who is a SF 49's fan told me the Cowboys won't win another SB as long as Romo is the qb.
I thought it was interesting because even fans from other teams see the inevitable.

[Txbroadcaster]

Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?

At the end of the day, the only STAT that matters is the W/L column.

T=W
R=L

A friend of mine from Idaho who is a SF 49's fan told me the Cowboys won't win another SB as long as Romo is the qb.
I thought it was interesting because even fans from other teams see the inevitable.


Not about making a QB better, it is about making the team better

[STANG RED]

Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?

It's pretty simple really. A good D will tend to keep the O in better field position, so the QB isnt always backed up to his own endzone. There are alot more plays the QB has at his disposal from good field position, than he does when backed up to his own goal line. Also, a good D will get the ball back more often, giving their own QB more chances to make plays. Plus, I can see how a QB can play looser and with more confindence, when he knows he has a good D that will give him more chances, and keep the other team from scoring if he makes a mistake and turns the ball over.

[Old Tiger]

Long term Tebow is not the answer

Short term he is winning games and lucked into the playoffs.

You can't expect Denver to run for 200+ a game and Tebows chunked up prayers to win ball games on a consistent basis. IMO Denver is a 5-6 win team next year.

[Old LB]

Long term Tebow is not the answer

Short term he is winning games and lucked into the playoffs.

You can't expect Denver to run for 200+ a game and Tebows chunked up prayers to win ball games on a consistent basis. IMO Denver is a 5-6 win team next year.

I think Denver's success has been more about the team than about Tebow. The media has started the craze. Denver did beat Pittsburg, not like they beat a nobody. I can see Denver beating New England if Brady has a bad game, their defense is not exactly tearing it up.

[Old Tiger]

I think Denver's success has been more about the team than about Tebow. The media has started the craze. Denver did beat Pittsburg, not like they beat a nobody. I can see Denver beating New England if Brady has a bad game, their defense is not exactly tearing it up.The emergence of Von Miller greatly helped IMO. Doesn't hurt having a RB who's rushed for 1000 yards with 3 different teams either.

[MGAR]

Saw this song Jimmy Fallon did on Tebow. Kinda wrong but still thought it was kinda funny.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/jimmy-fallon-sings-this-is-tim-tebow-to-jesus-christ/

[Macarthur]

Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?

Are you serious? So I'm supposed to respect your opinions on Romo when you make comments like this?



At the end of the day, the only STAT that matters is the W/L column.

T=W
R=L

Of course Romo is 47-30, but none of those were important.


A friend of mine from Idaho who is a SF 49's fan told me the Cowboys won't win another SB as long as Romo is the qb.
I thought it was interesting because even fans from other teams see the inevitable.

Well, that settles it. A niners fan says Romo sucks. Are you wanting me to take you seriously?

[Farmersfan]

this is one of the biggest issues I have with whole Romo thing...NOTHING in his career has shown he is lazy, or does not work hard, yet that is the image of him...this was a undrafted free agent who is now one of the top 10-13 QBs in the league, that shows he works his arse off, yet people act like he does not


Kind of biased and one sided interpretation of things TXB. Perhaps it actually shows that Romo had the NFL QB talent all along but never dedicated himself enough to become relevant in the sport. Once he got a chance with the Dallas Cowboys he might have put out a little more effort and the results earned him the franchise tag and a huge contract. But since then he has once again become that guy that played for a no-name college and went undrafted. This hypothesis has as much merit as the one you presented. All you guys keep talking about Romo's stats showing him in the top ranks of NFL QBs and I agree they do. Now the question is still up in the air whether those stats are the result of the constant revolving door of talent around him or because of him. We have differing opinions as to that answer and have discussed it before. But there are some indicators that cannot be ignored or rationalized away. The Cowboys beat the NY Giants twice during the regular season the year they won their Superbowl. Which team/QB stepped up? The Cowboys beat the Saints 3 weeks before the Saints won their Superbowl. The examples of how great this team can play at times can be found all over the place. The talent of this team is not debatable. How that talent performs on the field is the problem. All NFL players to an extent have the tools to play this game or they wouldn't be NFL players. The mental part of the game is what separates the champions from the pretenders. At least on the offensive side of the ball the QB is the single biggest indicator of the "mental" part of the game. Romo has repeatedly shown he doesn't have a competitive fire or the will to be the best even though he has shown he has the tools to be. There is a reason Tony Romo went undrafted and played college at Deliverance University!!!!! He didn't suddenly get hit with a "TALENT" lightening bolt out of heaven. The improvement in Tony Romo's game from college to the pros was 100% between the ears. Why you now have a problem with people who question his "Between the Ears" ability is beyond me. Nobody that I have seen really questions Romo's physical ability to play football. Almost everybody questions his mental ability. And based on his history he certainly has a problem maintaining a high mental capacity for this game. And his exceptional ranking in the few QB stats that are measured in the QB rating system is hardly an accurate indicator of his total impact (positively or negatively) to this team. Can Tony Romo win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him? Of course! Porky Pig could win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him. The question that is up for debate is can Tony Romo win a Superbowl with a normal amount of talent around him? So far he has failed miserably at doing so. Can he catch lightening in a bottle once in his career and lead a average team to play great football and get to the big dance? Perhaps! But I see ZERO indications that he will ever be able to do that. ZERO!!!!!!!

[buff4ever]

Kind of biased and one sided interpretation of things TXB. Perhaps it actually shows that Romo had the NFL QB talent all along but never dedicated himself enough to become relevant in the sport. Once he got a chance with the Dallas Cowboys he might have put out a little more effort and the results earned him the franchise tag and a huge contract. But since then he has once again become that guy that played for a no-name college and went undrafted. This hypothesis has as much merit as the one you presented. All you guys keep talking about Romo's stats showing him in the top ranks of NFL QBs and I agree they do. Now the question is still up in the air whether those stats are the result of the constant revolving door of talent around him or because of him. We have differing opinions as to that answer and have discussed it before. But there are some indicators that cannot be ignored or rationalized away. The Cowboys beat the NY Giants twice during the regular season the year they won their Superbowl. Which team/QB stepped up? The Cowboys beat the Saints 3 weeks before the Saints won their Superbowl. The examples of how great this team can play at times can be found all over the place. The talent of this team is not debatable. How that talent performs on the field is the problem. All NFL players to an extent have the tools to play this game or they wouldn't be NFL players. The mental part of the game is what separates the champions from the pretenders. At least on the offensive side of the ball the QB is the single biggest indicator of the "mental" part of the game. Romo has repeatedly shown he doesn't have a competitive fire or the will to be the best even though he has shown he has the tools to be. There is a reason Tony Romo went undrafted and played college at Deliverance University!!!!! He didn't suddenly get hit with a "TALENT" lightening bolt out of heaven. The improvement in Tony Romo's game from college to the pros was 100% between the ears. Why you now have a problem with people who question his "Between the Ears" ability is beyond me. Nobody that I have seen really questions Romo's physical ability to play football. Almost everybody questions his mental ability. And based on his history he certainly has a problem maintaining a high mental capacity for this game. And his exceptional ranking in the few QB stats that are measured in the QB rating system is hardly an accurate indicator of his total impact (positively or negatively) to this team. Can Tony Romo win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him? Of course! Porky Pig could win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him. The question that is up for debate is can Tony Romo win a Superbowl with a normal amount of talent around him? So far he has failed miserably at doing so. Can he catch lightening in a bottle once in his career and lead a average team to play great football and get to the big dance? Perhaps! But I see ZERO indications that he will ever be able to do that. ZERO!!!!!!!


I don't even do facebook, but my wife does, and I think the appropriate thing to do here is:

"I Like"

???just seen it on her facebook page once or twice:)

[MJMbrahmas10]

Tebow hasn't played a full season yet. What makes his success only short term?

[buff4ever]

Kind of biased and one sided interpretation of things TXB. Perhaps it actually shows that Romo had the NFL QB talent all along but never dedicated himself enough to become relevant in the sport. Once he got a chance with the Dallas Cowboys he might have put out a little more effort and the results earned him the franchise tag and a huge contract. But since then he has once again become that guy that played for a no-name college and went undrafted. This hypothesis has as much merit as the one you presented. All you guys keep talking about Romo's stats showing him in the top ranks of NFL QBs and I agree they do. Now the question is still up in the air whether those stats are the result of the constant revolving door of talent around him or because of him. We have differing opinions as to that answer and have discussed it before. But there are some indicators that cannot be ignored or rationalized away. The Cowboys beat the NY Giants twice during the regular season the year they won their Superbowl. Which team/QB stepped up? The Cowboys beat the Saints 3 weeks before the Saints won their Superbowl. The examples of how great this team can play at times can be found all over the place. The talent of this team is not debatable. How that talent performs on the field is the problem. All NFL players to an extent have the tools to play this game or they wouldn't be NFL players. The mental part of the game is what separates the champions from the pretenders. At least on the offensive side of the ball the QB is the single biggest indicator of the "mental" part of the game. Romo has repeatedly shown he doesn't have a competitive fire or the will to be the best even though he has shown he has the tools to be. There is a reason Tony Romo went undrafted and played college at Deliverance University!!!!! He didn't suddenly get hit with a "TALENT" lightening bolt out of heaven. The improvement in Tony Romo's game from college to the pros was 100% between the ears. Why you now have a problem with people who question his "Between the Ears" ability is beyond me. Nobody that I have seen really questions Romo's physical ability to play football. Almost everybody questions his mental ability. And based on his history he certainly has a problem maintaining a high mental capacity for this game. And his exceptional ranking in the few QB stats that are measured in the QB rating system is hardly an accurate indicator of his total impact (positively or negatively) to this team. Can Tony Romo win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him? Of course! Porky Pig could win a Superbowl if they get enough talent around him. The question that is up for debate is can Tony Romo win a Superbowl with a normal amount of talent around him? So far he has failed miserably at doing so. Can he catch lightening in a bottle once in his career and lead a average team to play great football and get to the big dance? Perhaps! But I see ZERO indications that he will ever be able to do that. ZERO!!!!!!!

Mac and TXB, that has to sting a little bit? It was the best way to say what I been trying to say.

[Old Tiger]

Tebow hasn't played a full season yet. What makes his success only short term?He has started 16 games.

[Farmersfan]

It's pretty simple really. A good D will tend to keep the O in better field position, so the QB isnt always backed up to his own endzone. There are alot more plays the QB has at his disposal from good field position, than he does when backed up to his own goal line. Also, a good D will get the ball back more often, giving their own QB more chances to make plays. Plus, I can see how a QB can play looser and with more confindence, when he knows he has a good D that will give him more chances, and keep the other team from scoring if he makes a mistake and turns the ball over.



All these examples are very valid examples and have been brought up in the Romo debate before. And without exception they have been proven wrong every single time. The Dallas defense had some very, very bad games this season but in the overall scheme of the season they were above average in most categories. Average starting field position, number of offensive plays, Time of possession, total yards/points scored and a multitude of other stats don't support that the defense effected the ability of the offense to get it done! PERIOD! The constant assertions from some people that the defense gave up the winning drive at the end of the game is a biased Romo-Protection reaction and nothing more. Of course in a few of the games the defense gave up a lot of points and a couple of times they gave up a lot of points late to lose the game. But on every single one of those times that the defense lost the lead late the offense ALSO had an opportunity to ice the game or get the lead back and failed. Bad defense for sure! But some people on here don't acknowledge that it was equally bad on the offense. these very same people were the one's who claimed that a 2 yard difference in starting field position for a team could mean the difference between a great offense or a bad offense! Need I say more?

[Txbroadcaster]

Mac and TXB, that has to sting a little bit? It was the best way to say what I been trying to say.

why would it sting? His opinion

FF answer me one thing

name the QB in the NFL that won a SB with normal talent as you call it?

You say the talent of Dallas is not debatable...uhh yea it is..That is been one of the biggest issues talked about this year.The roster

Like Sturm said.the top end talent for Dallas has not been the issue( i agree)..the Ware, Romo, Ratliff, Austin grouping...the problem for the last 4-5 years is the back end talent..the non stud starter and 2nd team. That is where this team players like Bradie James, Anthony spencer, the guys who We al maybe thought were more talented than they really are and allowed them to stay on the field instead of trying to at least find better players( the old churn the roster)
a
You talk about wins over the Giants that year, Saints in 09 as indication of all the talent...That just indicates Dallas is a typical NFL team these days outside of the top teams and the very bottom teams basically every team has 8-8 talent...how the season goes depends on all the in season stuff like injuries and what not

For Dallas to get to reach that top tier they have do a better job of filling out the roster..Danny White might have said it best( ironic I know it being White LOL)

I’ll guarantee you there are quarterbacks in this league in the past that have won Super Bowls without performing nearly at the level that Tony Romo has performed at. So it’s a matter of everybody else playing their position the way Tony plays his, and that team will be in the Super Bowl every year. And I think he knows that.”

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656213] But on every single one of those times that the defense lost the lead late the offense ALSO had an opportunity to ice the game or get the lead back and failed. QUOTE]

your very wrong on that

[Macarthur]

Sorry, FF. We've been all over this millions of times. No, it doesn't sting because I've addressed these all before.

[buff4ever]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656213] But on every single one of those times that the defense lost the lead late the offense ALSO had an opportunity to ice the game or get the lead back and failed. QUOTE]

your very wrong on that

You are very wrong, often times what FF is saying is true for any team, but especially this years Cowboys. You have your blinders on if you think he is VERY WRONG on this. Why is it that everyone except the FEW supporters of Romo in this world can see it, and you few think everyone else is crazy.

[Farmersfan]

Of course Romo is 47-30, but none of those were important.




Romo is 9-13 the last 2 seasons! Are those important? He's .500 the last 3 seasons! Is that important?

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656217]

You are very wrong, often times what FF is saying is true for any team, but especially this years Cowboys. You have your blinders on if you think he is VERY WRONG on this. Why is it that everyone except the FEW supporters of Romo in this world can see it, and you few think everyone else is crazy.

Read what he said...he said every time this year that the D gave up a late lead the Dallas O did not get lead back..that is wrong

[Macarthur]

Romo is 9-13 the last 2 seasons! Are those important? He's .500 the last 3 seasons! Is that important?

Yes, they are important. I would argue that we have seen a pretty steady decline in the talent level on this team over the last couple of years. You can't have it both ways. You want to point out how great the talent is on this team. I would agree that the talent level was good early in Romo's tenure. Go look at his record the first 3 years while that talent level was fairly high. Since, it's gone down; it's no coinscidence that many guys began their decline - L. Davis, Columbo, Gurode, Newman, MBIII, Brooking, James...And the team's record has followed suit. And it's even more telling that while the teams record has gone down (along with the talent level, IMO), Romo's numbers have actually gotten better. His turnovers since the start of 09 have been extremely low.

[Txbroadcaster]

Yes, they are important. I would argue that we have seen a pretty steady decline in the talent level on this team over the last couple of years. You can't have it both ways. You want to point out how great the talent is on this team. I would agree that the talent level was good early in Romo's tenure. Go look at his record the first 3 years while that talent level was fairly high. Since, it's gone down; it's no coinscidence that many guys began their decline - L. Davis, Columbo, Gurode, Newman, MBIII, Brooking, James...And the team's record has followed suit. And it's even more telling that while the teams record has gone down (along with the talent level, IMO), Romo's numbers have actually gotten better. His turnovers since the start of 09 have been extremely low.


The one season I think they really had a shot was the 08 season..and it started out great till the Zona game and the Romo injury.

[buff4ever]

[QUOTE=buff4ever;1656222]

Read what he said...he said every time this year that the D gave up a late lead the Dallas O did not get lead back..that is wrong

Please do, read what he typed. He said in every single of of those losses where the d gave up score at the end of the game the offense had a CHANCE TO ICE or GET THE LEAD BACK.

And he is correct on that.

[Farmersfan]

why would it sting? His opinion

FF answer me one thing

name the QB in the NFL that won a SB with normal talent as you call it?

You say the talent of Dallas is not debatable...uhh yea it is..That is been one of the biggest issues talked about this year.The roster

Like Sturm said.the top end talent for Dallas has not been the issue( i agree)..the Ware, Romo, Ratliff, Austin grouping...the problem for the last 4-5 years is the back end talent..the non stud starter and 2nd team. That is where this team players like Bradie James, Anthony spencer, the guys who We al maybe thought were more talented than they really are and allowed them to stay on the field instead of trying to at least find better players( the old churn the roster)
a
You talk about wins over the Giants that year, Saints in 09 as indication of all the talent...That just indicates Dallas is a typical NFL team these days outside of the top teams and the very bottom teams basically every team has 8-8 talent...how the season goes depends on all the in season stuff like injuries and what not

For Dallas to get to reach that top tier they have do a better job of filling out the roster..Danny White might have said it best( ironic I know it being White LOL)

I’ll guarantee you there are quarterbacks in this league in the past that have won Super Bowls without performing nearly at the level that Tony Romo has performed at. So it’s a matter of everybody else playing their position the way Tony plays his, and that team will be in the Super Bowl every year. And I think he knows that.”



And it has become obvious to me over the last couple of years that you don't really understand what "Talent" is. Talent is nothing more than the measure of potential. Performance on the field does nothing to increase or decrease talent. Performance measures execution, preparation and motivation. You and so many others nit-pic the Cowboy's roster and find REASONS for removing the blame from the few players you support. The point about those games I mentioned was that on any given day the Cowboys can play with any given team in the NFL. The thing that determines if they do or don't is those 3 simply things: Execution, Preparation and Motivation. The consistently great teams have team leaders that refuse to except anything less than their best. I saw a interview with a former Jet's player who also played with Drew Brees and Tom Brady! The only negative thing that he said that might be a slap on Sanchez was that the difference between Mark Sanchez and those other great QBs was that even in practice if they didn't get the best out of their teammates they would EXPECT to stay late and work it out. I don't have any proof but I honestly suspect that Romo has zero concerns about it in practice and even if he did his teammates would simply laugh it off if he expected them to stay late. Say what you want but you will eventually find out that Tony Romo is a "MASCOT" in the lockerroom and not a team leader. Tony Romo is the guy everyone grabs and gives nuggies to while he giggles and says things like "Awe shucks guys, cut it out"!!!!!! Tony Romo is the McFly of the Dallas Cowboys! I've said it before and I will say it again: Tony Romo is a joke to his teammates. They won't say it publically because Romo is the franchise guy but when Romo went out they jumped on the Kitna bandwagon in a heartbeat and there was even some "rumors" out of Valley Ranch that some players wanted Kitna to replace Romo. Nobody thought Kitna was a better physical specimen but I can guarantee you they ALL felt Kitna was mentally a better option. Unfortunately only history will prove me right on this. So I will sit back and watch Romo lead our Cowboys to another 8-8 or 9-7 season and another missed playoff opportunity and eventually someone will crack and tell the world what the feelings are in the lockerroom........ You heard it here first!

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656225]

Please do, read what he typed. He said in every single of of those losses where the d gave up score at the end of the game the offense had a CHANCE TO ICE or GET THE LEAD BACK.

And he is correct on that.

Not the part I was talking about..They did not fail every time..that was what I was talking about

They beat Washington after giving up the lead late

The Dallas O put Dallas in position agianst the Cards and the Giants, it was Special Teams that failed on those, not the Dallas O

[buff4ever]

And it has become obvious to me over the last couple of years that you don't really understand what "Talent" is. Talent is nothing more than the measure of potential. Performance on the field does nothing to increase or decrease talent. Performance measures execution, preparation and motivation. You and so many others nit-pic the Cowboy's roster and find REASONS for removing the blame from the few players you support. The point about those games I mentioned was that on any given day the Cowboys can play with any given team in the NFL. The thing that determines if they do or don't is those 3 simply things: Execution, Preparation and Motivation. The consistently great teams have team leaders that refuse to except anything less than their best. I saw a interview with a former Jet's player who also played with Drew Brees and Tom Brady! The only negative thing that he said that might be a slap on Sanchez was that the difference between Mark Sanchez and those other great QBs was that even in practice if they didn't get the best out of their teammates they would EXPECT to stay late and work it out. I don't have any proof but I honestly suspect that Romo has zero concerns about it in practice and even if he did his teammates would simply laugh it off if he expected them to stay late. Say what you want but you will eventually find out that Tony Romo is a "MASCOT" in the lockerroom and not a team leader. Tony Romo is the guy everyone grabs and gives nuggies to while he giggles and says things like "Awe shucks guys, cut it out"!!!!!! Tony Romo is the McFly of the Dallas Cowboys! I've said it before and I will say it again: Tony Romo is a joke to his teammates. They won't say it publically because Romo is the franchise guy but when Romo went out they jumped on the Kitna bandwagon in a heartbeat and there was even some "rumors" out of Valley Ranch that some players wanted Kitna to replace Romo. Nobody thought Kitna was a better physical specimen but I can guarantee you they ALL felt Kitna was mentally a better option. Unfortunately only history will prove me right on this. So I will sit back and watch Romo lead our Cowboys to another 8-8 or 9-7 season and another missed playoff opportunity and eventually someone will crack and tell the world what the feelings are in the lockerroom........ You heard it here first!

I feel this same way, we can't quite prove it til it comes out, but yet nothing has ever proven us wrong. There is more proof that leans towards our opionion than there is proof that would discredit our opinion. What drives you guys crazy is you will pull whatever you can to try and prove us wrong, when you probably only fear we are right deep down in your thoughts. You guys want to think you are all knowledgable, but I think after it is all said and done, you guys really just want the cowboys to win now (and so do we), and you don't feel there is a franchise qb that we can get our hands on. So you defend what we have blindly and hope for a miracle every year.

Tebow is cheesy at times in his leadership, but it seems obvious that his team atleast respects him as a teammate and leader, cheesy or not. I can't ever get the same confidence that romo's teammates truly respect him, or just play the part.

[Txbroadcaster]

And it has become obvious to me over the last couple of years that you don't really understand what "Talent" is. Talent is nothing more than the measure of potential. Performance on the field does nothing to increase or decrease talent. Performance measures execution, preparation and motivation. You and so many others nit-pic the Cowboy's roster and find REASONS for removing the blame from the few players you support. The point about those games I mentioned was that on any given day the Cowboys can play with any given team in the NFL. The thing that determines if they do or don't is those 3 simply things: Execution, Preparation and Motivation. The consistently great teams have team leaders that refuse to except anything less than their best. I saw a interview with a former Jet's player who also played with Drew Brees and Tom Brady! The only negative thing that he said that might be a slap on Sanchez was that the difference between Mark Sanchez and those other great QBs was that even in practice if they didn't get the best out of their teammates they would EXPECT to stay late and work it out. I don't have any proof but I honestly suspect that Romo has zero concerns about it in practice and even if he did his teammates would simply laugh it off if he expected them to stay late. Say what you want but you will eventually find out that Tony Romo is a "MASCOT" in the lockerroom and not a team leader. Tony Romo is the guy everyone grabs and gives nuggies to while he giggles and says things like "Awe shucks guys, cut it out"!!!!!! Tony Romo is the McFly of the Dallas Cowboys! I've said it before and I will say it again: Tony Romo is a joke to his teammates. They won't say it publically because Romo is the franchise guy but when Romo went out they jumped on the Kitna bandwagon in a heartbeat and there was even some "rumors" out of Valley Ranch that some players wanted Kitna to replace Romo. Nobody thought Kitna was a better physical specimen but I can guarantee you they ALL felt Kitna was mentally a better option. Unfortunately only history will prove me right on this. So I will sit back and watch Romo lead our Cowboys to another 8-8 or 9-7 season and another missed playoff opportunity and eventually someone will crack and tell the world what the feelings are in the lockerroom........ You heard it here first!

back to saying he does not work hard

His work ethic has never been a question, at least not to those who know him. Sure, his off-field activities, such as golfing and an ill-advised bye-week getaway with a celebrity girlfriend, have received a lot of attention.

But Romo has always been the football equivalent of a gym rat, a guy who leads the team in hours spent grinding away at the Cowboys' Valley Ranch practice facility.


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7021072/story-dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-unfinished-cliffhanger

Or the fact he was the one who not only contacted every Cowboy but led the off season workouts


Your whole Talent thing..NOTHING to do with what I was talking about with the talent on the roster

[Txbroadcaster]

I feel this same way, we can't quite prove it til it comes out, but yet nothing has ever proven us wrong. There is more proof that leans towards our opionion than there is proof that would discredit our opinion. What drives you guys crazy is you will pull whatever you can to try and prove us wrong, when you probably only fear we are right deep down in your thoughts. You guys want to think you are all knowledgable, but I think after it is all said and done, you guys really just want the cowboys to win now (and so do we), and you don't feel there is a franchise qb that we can get our hands on. So you defend what we have blindly and hope for a miracle every year.

Tebow is cheesy at times in his leadership, but it seems obvious that his team atleast respects him as a teammate and leader, cheesy or not. I can't ever get the same confidence that romo's teammates truly respect him, or just play the part.

Nope I dont deep down think your right at all..it is the fact both of you say things like..well I have no real proof but I have a feeling he is not a leader etc, etc is so funny it is like a conspiracy theory...Tebow teammate says good things then it shows he is a leader...If Romo's teammate says good things you decide oh they are just saying it but dont mean it

[buff4ever]

Nope I dont deep down think your right at all..it is the fact both of you say things like..well I have no real proof but I have a feeling he is not a leader etc, etc is so funny it is like a conspiracy theory...Tebow teammate says good things then it shows he is a leader...If Romo's teammate says good things you decide oh they are just saying it but dont mean it

Look at how they perform on the field. More so look at how they play the game. You are dealing with a team that has very little offensive success, yet they play hard on every single down. The recievers go hard every play, and they probably don't even think that they could get the ball thrown to them 3 times a game, much less it be a catchable ball. The cowboy's talent that is better than you would think, doesn't give this type of effort for a qb that has the ability to get them better opportunities than tebow can get his.

Better example, when times are hard offensively for the broncos, they play with more passion than when things are going well for the cowboys. I attribute this to lack of leadership, and lack or respect of leadership.

[Txbroadcaster]

Look at how they perform on the field. More so look at how they play the game. You are dealing with a team that has very little offensive success, yet they play hard on every single down. The recievers go hard every play, and they probably don't even think that they could get the ball thrown to them 3 times a game, much less it be a catchable ball. The cowboy's talent that is better than you would think, doesn't give this type of effort for a qb that has the ability to get them better opportunities than tebow can get his.

Better example, when times are hard offensively for the broncos, they play with more passion than when things are going well for the cowboys. I attribute this to lack of leadership, and lack or respect of leadership.

Pure opinion We have no proof that Broncos play harder or not than any team in the NFL.

[Macarthur]

It's always easier to believe there's something hidden or some conspiracy. You guys are so blinded by your bias, you don't even see how irrational you are.

[buff4ever]

Pure opinion We have no proof that Broncos play harder or not than any team in the NFL.

What do you mean we have no proof? Have you watched the broncos play, and how closely do you watch the cowboys?

Take most NFL receivers, how hard do you think they would block down field for an option play, when the team passes for 160 yards a game, and most of the throws thrown your way, 3 or 4 tops a game are at your feet. I don't mean, how hard they run after a catch, I mean on run plays and blocking for others after a catch. The Denver defense, we haven't even talked about them, they are playing over their heads given how much they are forced back on the field. Often times they are winning the field position battle either. When you guys atleast bring stats, relevant or not, that is respectable, when you say we don't know how hard the broncos play vs the cowboys, that is ignorance. We may have opinions that are atleast valid opinions by some proof, but not ignorance.

[Txbroadcaster]

What do you mean we have no proof? Have you watched the broncos play, and how closely do you watch the cowboys?

Take most NFL receivers, how hard do you think they would block down field for an option play, when the team passes for 160 yards a game, and most of the throws thrown your way, 3 or 4 tops a game are at your feet. I don't mean, how hard they run after a catch, I mean on run plays and blocking for others after a catch. The Denver defense, we haven't even talked about them, they are playing over their heads given how much they are forced back on the field. Often times they are winning the field position battle either. When you guys atleast bring stats, relevant or not, that is respectable, when you say we don't know how hard the broncos play vs the cowboys, that is ignorance. We may have opinions that are atleast valid opinions by some proof, but not ignorance.

again your giving your opinon..I did not call your ignorant, so please dont say I am being ignorant

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656213] But on every single one of those times that the defense lost the lead late the offense ALSO had an opportunity to ice the game or get the lead back and failed. QUOTE]

your very wrong on that



Specifics please! At what point this season did the defense give up a lead at the end of the game when the offense DID NOT have an opportunity to either extend the lead before or get it back afterwards? Not saying it didn't happen but if it did it was an anomoly. My point was that as valid as your blame on the defense might be for losing the lead it is just as valid to blame the offense for not having a bigger lead or for not getting it back. The only way this would not apply is if the Dallas offense scored to take the lead and the defense gave up the lead with no time left on the clock. I don't EVER remember this happening. Most of the time when a lead was given up the offense went out to a big lead in the first half and scored very little in the second half. Even in the Patriots game when Brady drove the legnth of the field to score with no time left the offense had the ball before that with an opportunity to run out the clock or put the score out of reach and managed a 3 and out to give it back to Brady.....................

[Macarthur]

They won the SF game because the defense didn't have a chance to lose that one. :)

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656217]



Specifics please! At what point this season did the defense give up a lead at the end of the game when the offense DID NOT have an opportunity to either extend the lead before or get it back afterwards? Not saying it didn't happen but if it did it was an anomoly. My point was that as valid as your blame on the defense might be for losing the lead it is just as valid to blame the offense for not having a bigger lead or for not getting it back. The only way this would not apply is if the Dallas offense scored to take the lead and the defense gave up the lead with no time left on the clock. I don't EVER remember this happening. Most of the time when a lead was given up the offense went out to a big lead in the first half and scored very little in the second half. Even in the Patriots game when Brady drove the legnth of the field to score with no time left the offense had the ball before that with an opportunity to run out the clock or put the score out of reach and managed a 3 and out to give it back to Brady.....................

Again...I said your wrong on the part that you said they failed every time..they did not

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656217]



Specifics please! At what point this season did the defense give up a lead at the end of the game when the offense DID NOT have an opportunity to either extend the lead before or get it back afterwards? Not saying it didn't happen but if it did it was an anomoly. My point was that as valid as your blame on the defense might be for losing the lead it is just as valid to blame the offense for not having a bigger lead or for not getting it back. The only way this would not apply is if the Dallas offense scored to take the lead and the defense gave up the lead with no time left on the clock. I don't EVER remember this happening. Most of the time when a lead was given up the offense went out to a big lead in the first half and scored very little in the second half. Even in the Patriots game when Brady drove the legnth of the field to score with no time left the offense had the ball before that with an opportunity to run out the clock or put the score out of reach and managed a 3 and out to give it back to Brady.....................Every game they lost with the exception of the Eagle games, they had the lead late in the game. And the defense gave it up, sometimes more then once. Every time the offense would get the lead the D would give it back most of the time real quickly.

[Farmersfan]

back to saying he does not work hard

His work ethic has never been a question, at least not to those who know him. Sure, his off-field activities, such as golfing and an ill-advised bye-week getaway with a celebrity girlfriend, have received a lot of attention.

But Romo has always been the football equivalent of a gym rat, a guy who leads the team in hours spent grinding away at the Cowboys' Valley Ranch practice facility.


http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/7021072/story-dallas-cowboys-qb-tony-romo-unfinished-cliffhanger

Or the fact he was the one who not only contacted every Cowboy but led the off season workouts


Your whole Talent thing..NOTHING to do with what I was talking about with the talent on the roster



The ONLY reason the depth on this team is in question is because of the performance on the field! The starters on this team underachieve badly! The coaches on this team underachieve badly! The Owner of this team underachieves badly! so why in the hell wouldn't we assume the backups on this team don't also underachieve badly? It is a lame excuse and a biased opinion to say Romo isn't successful because the "DEPTH" on this team isn't where it is on the other teams. I't a crock of crap is what it is! Bad drafts=not getting the most out of the player! If you have a bad organization that doesn't put forth expectations and hold players accountable and you bring young players into that organization you have badly affected your odds of making that rookie into a great player. I would argue that Dez Bryant would be twice as productive if he had went to some of the other successful organizations. Tom Brady is a great QB but he is helped by the fact that his receivers are EXPECTED to do things correctly. Dez Bryant would be a superstar in New England. 50% due to Brady's accuracy and abilities and 50% because of how that franchise operates. Half the backups on this Dallas team would play on many of the other teams yet in Dallas they are considered weak and no depth! It's media talk and it's BS...................

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656248]

Again...I said your wrong on the part that you said they failed every time..they did not


but you didn't understand the post TXB. I said in EVERY LOSS where the defense gave up the lead late the offense also had an opportunity to either extend the lead or take it back and also failed. Yet you only blame 50% of that equation. And I asked you provide the exact game when this rule didn't apply. Out of the past 3 seasons I can think of only a couple where the offense scored and they lost the game without the offense getting the ball back. In every single other case the offense failed on their last possession whether it was before the lead was given up or afterwards when they could have taken it back. this is not defending the defense. It is trying to show that the offense is just as much to blame.

[GrTigers6]

The ONLY reason the depth on this team is in question is because of the performance on the field! The starters on this team underachieve badly! The coaches on this team underachieve badly! The Owner of this team underachieves badly! so why in the hell wouldn't we assume the backups on this team don't also underachieve badly? It is a lame excuse and a biased opinion to say Romo isn't successful because the "DEPTH" on this team isn't where it is on the other teams. I't a crock of crap is what it is! Bad drafts=not getting the most out of the player! If you have a bad organization that doesn't put forth expectations and hold players accountable and you bring young players into that organization you have badly affected your odds of making that rookie into a great player. I would argue that Dez Bryant would be twice as productive if he had went to some of the other successful organizations. Tom Brady is a great QB but he is helped by the fact that his receivers are EXPECTED to do things correctly. Dez Bryant would be a superstar in New England. 50% due to Brady's accuracy and abilities and 50% because of how that franchise operates. Half the backups on this Dallas team would play on many of the other teams yet in Dallas they are considered weak and no depth! It's media talk and it's BS...................Yeah the last two recievers that left dallas really worked out well for other teams

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656250]


but you didn't understand the post TXB. I said in EVERY LOSS where the defense gave up the lead late the offense also had an opportunity to either extend the lead or take it back and also failed. Yet you only blame 50% of that equation. And I asked you provide the exact game when this rule didn't apply. Out of the past 3 seasons I can think of only a couple where the offense scored and they lost the game without the offense getting the ball back. In every single other case the offense failed on their last possession whether it was before the lead was given up or afterwards when they could have taken it back. this is not defending the defense. It is trying to show that the offense is just as much to blame.twice the defense gave it up and the offense was inposition for a field goal and missed it. Has absolutley nothing to do with Romo so its not a good argument for "his lack of leadership". The first giants game they gave up 2 late drives that lost the game. So again I dont understand your point

[Farmersfan]

..Tebow teammate says good things then it shows he is a leader...If Romo's teammate says good things you decide oh they are just saying it but dont mean it




If after 6 years Tebow's teammates still say good things but never prove it on the field we will also question them!!!!!! Tebow's teammates talk Tebow up and then go out and play like they have been inspired. Romo's teammates haven't played inspired in several years and even quit on Romo last season. Even you admitted that. So let's wait and see if Tebow's teammates will "Quit" on him before we make the comparison..........

[Txbroadcaster]

The ONLY reason the depth on this team is in question is because of the performance on the field! The starters on this team underachieve badly! The coaches on this team underachieve badly! The Owner of this team underachieves badly! so why in the hell wouldn't we assume the backups on this team don't also underachieve badly? It is a lame excuse and a biased opinion to say Romo isn't successful because the "DEPTH" on this team isn't where it is on the other teams. I't a crock of crap is what it is! Bad drafts=not getting the most out of the player! If you have a bad organization that doesn't put forth expectations and hold players accountable and you bring young players into that organization you have badly affected your odds of making that rookie into a great player. I would argue that Dez Bryant would be twice as productive if he had went to some of the other successful organizations. Tom Brady is a great QB but he is helped by the fact that his receivers are EXPECTED to do things correctly. Dez Bryant would be a superstar in New England. 50% due to Brady's accuracy and abilities and 50% because of how that franchise operates. Half the backups on this Dallas team would play on many of the other teams yet in Dallas they are considered weak and no depth! It's media talk and it's BS...................


This is one of the fun things to discuss about Dallas..is it underachieve or not as talented we thought( or combo?)

[Txbroadcaster]

If after 6 years Tebow's teammates still say good things but never prove it on the field we will also question them!!!!!! Tebow's teammates talk Tebow up and then go out and play like they have been inspired. Romo's teammates haven't played inspired in several years and even quit on Romo last season. Even you admitted that. So let's wait and see if Tebow's teammates will "Quit" on him before we make the comparison..........


uh I never said they quit on Romo..they quit after Romo got hurt before Phillips got fired

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656273]twice the defense gave it up and the offense was inposition for a field goal and missed it. Has absolutley nothing to do with Romo so its not a good argument for "his lack of leadership". The first giants game they gave up 2 late drives that lost the game. So again I dont understand your point


Of course you don't! But it'll be ok...... It'll probably come to you as you are driving down the interstate. Don't get too excited and drive off the overpass!!!

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=GrTigers6;1656276]


Of course you don't! But it'll be ok...... It'll probably come to you as you are driving down the interstate. Don't get too excited and drive off the overpass!!!Really? Thats all you have to say? I guess that proves you dont have an argument when it comes to Romo. The defense and the offensive line were the main problems with this team. Then play calling and time management after that. But no where should you see Romo in that equation
Edited
Also Game management

[Farmersfan]

uh I never said they quit on Romo..they quit after Romo got hurt before Phillips got fired



So even though you said for an entire year that the team had quit was the reason Romo went 1-5 to start the year now you are saying the team didn't quit and played just as hard for Romo as they did for Kitna? This could certainly rehash the arguement as to why Kitna had a better record and put up just as good numbers as Romo did.................... :) You talk yourself into a corner sometimes TXB. But we all know you mean well!

[Farmersfan]

This is one of the fun things to discuss about Dallas..is it underachieve or not as talented we thought( or combo?)



I think the flashes of ability and the fact that this team can beat a Superbowl winner shows the ability (talent) is there! To watch them go head to head with the best QB in the history of the game and Superbowl contender one week and then to fall flat on their faces the next proves it's motivation and execution that is the problem and not talent. Again, all players in the NFL can play. Ever wonder how a team like GB has a ton of players you never heard of that shows up every week and plays lights out football? Motivation and Execution! Get this group of Dallas Cowboys properly motivated and they could beat any team in the NFL. that has nothing to do with talent unless you are wanting to win without maximum effort. Winning without maximum effort requires a level of talent that far exceeds your opponent.

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656282]Really? Thats all you have to say? I guess that proves you dont have an argument when it comes to Romo. The defense and the offensive line were the main problems with this team. Then play calling and time management after that. But no where should you see Romo in that equation
Edited
Also Game management


I made the offhanded remark because you don't even know what the hell we are talking about. this conversation pertains to the defense vs the offense. It has nothing at this point to do with Romo! TXB and I are discussing how much blame the defense has for a loss if the offense gets a chance to either extend the lead before the defense gives up a long drive or after the defense gives up a long drive and the lead. My point has always been that IF the defense is expected to stop every drive that gives up the lead late in a game then why isn't the offense also expected to succeed on every drive that would TAKE the lead or extend the lead? It's simple really!

[Txbroadcaster]

So even though you said for an entire year that the team had quit was the reason Romo went 1-5 to start the year now you are saying the team didn't quit and played just as hard for Romo as they did for Kitna? This could certainly rehash the arguement as to why Kitna had a better record and put up just as good numbers as Romo did.................... :) You talk yourself into a corner sometimes TXB. But we all know you mean well!

If u can show me where I said they quit on Romo please show me, and If I did I misspoke..I always felt( and thought I said it on here) that while Kitna played well rhe resurance for Dallas last year was the coaching change

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=GrTigers6;1656283]


. My point has always been that IF the defense is expected to stop every drive that gives up the lead late in a game then why isn't the offense also expected to succeed on every drive that would TAKE the lead or extend the lead? It's simple really!

The O is held accountable

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=GrTigers6;1656283]


I made the offhanded remark because you don't even know what the hell we are talking about. this conversation pertains to the defense vs the offense. It has nothing at this point to do with Romo! TXB and I are discussing how much blame the defense has for a loss if the offense gets a chance to either extend the lead before the defense gives up a long drive or after the defense gives up a long drive and the lead. My point has always been that IF the defense is expected to stop every drive that gives up the lead late in a game then why isn't the offense also expected to succeed on every drive that would TAKE the lead or extend the lead? It's simple really!I do know what your talking about, However the offense operates differently with a lead. As the D does too, ( dont agree with) but it does happen. But what good does it do to have you O get you the lead and the D to hold the lead the entire game until the last few minutes. The offense is trying to run out time and not trying to extend lead. Another issue i dont agree with but that is coaching and not offense

[Txbroadcaster]

So even though you said for an entire year that the team had quit was the reason Romo went 1-5 to start the year now you are saying the team didn't quit and played just as hard for Romo as they did for Kitna? This could certainly rehash the arguement as to why Kitna had a better record and put up just as good numbers as Romo did.................... :) You talk yourself into a corner sometimes TXB. But we all know you mean well!


one of the times

I agree they laid down for Phillips in the two games after Romo was hurt..before that they played hard, but stupid..it is not like they were getting blown out by 21 all year, that was just two games.

With Garrett we have seen them go back to playing hard, but alos alot of the problems in the 1-7 start have come back during the 4-3 run under Garrett

http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?110187-D-Ware-vs-FF&highlight=Wade+Phillips

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656287]

The O is held accountable



Not so TXB! this forum was full of people blaming the losses to the Cardinals and the Patriots on the defense only. That couldn't be further from the truth. The defense had a 2 minute meltdown and a 58 minute great game in both games while the offense had 58 minutes of mediocrity in both games and yet to most of you it was entirely the defenses fault.

[Txbroadcaster]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656290]



Not so TXB! this forum was full of people blaming the losses to the Cardinals and the Patriots on the defense only. That couldn't be further from the truth. The defense had a 2 minute meltdown and a 58 minute great game in both games while the offense had 58 minutes of mediocrity in both games and yet to most of you it was entirely the defenses fault.

I think it was more us saying the Dallas D is #1 reason they loss those games not only

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656287]I do know what your talking about, However the offense operates differently with a lead. As the D does too, ( dont agree with) but it does happen. But what good does it do to have you O get you the lead and the D to hold the lead the entire game until the last few minutes. The offense is trying to run out time and not trying to extend lead. Another issue i dont agree with but that is coaching and not offense


Everything you said works exactly the same way if reversed. What good does it do you if your defense keeps the other team from scoring a lot of points if your offense can't score points? And according to you the offense operating differently with a lead is a legitimate excuse for them not succeeding but it's not a excuse for the defense? Since we know the offense is going into a conservative gameplan shouldn't we expect the defense to step up and protect the lead? Sure! but also since we know the defense will be going into a prevent with the lead late in the game shouldn't we expect the offense to step up and help extend the lead? It works for both sides. The only difference is you have expectations for only ONE side............................

[STANG RED]

All these examples are very valid examples and have been brought up in the Romo debate before. And without exception they have been proven wrong every single time. The Dallas defense had some very, very bad games this season but in the overall scheme of the season they were above average in most categories. Average starting field position, number of offensive plays, Time of possession, total yards/points scored and a multitude of other stats don't support that the defense effected the ability of the offense to get it done! PERIOD! The constant assertions from some people that the defense gave up the winning drive at the end of the game is a biased Romo-Protection reaction and nothing more. Of course in a few of the games the defense gave up a lot of points and a couple of times they gave up a lot of points late to lose the game. But on every single one of those times that the defense lost the lead late the offense ALSO had an opportunity to ice the game or get the lead back and failed. Bad defense for sure! But some people on here don't acknowledge that it was equally bad on the offense. these very same people were the one's who claimed that a 2 yard difference in starting field position for a team could mean the difference between a great offense or a bad offense! Need I say more?

Your way too hung up on this Romo debate! I was NOT addressing the Romo debate that has taken over this TEBOW thread at all. I was simply answering Eagle 1's question "Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?" And I think everything in my answer was just simple common sense. Actually I wasnt thinking of any QB in particular when making my statements, but I do think a good D has assisted Tebow greatly. And I think just simple common sense will tell you, a good D is of great benefit to any QB, in most instances.

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=GrTigers6;1656291]


Everything you said works exactly the same way if reversed. What good does it do you if your defense keeps the other team from scoring a lot of points if your offense can't score points? And according to you the offense operating differently with a lead is a legitimate excuse for them not succeeding but it's not a excuse for the defense? Since we know the offense is going into a conservative gameplan shouldn't we expect the defense to step up and protect the lead? Sure! but also since we know the defense will be going into a prevent with the lead late in the game shouldn't we expect the offense to step up and help extend the lead? It works for both sides. The only difference is you have expectations for only ONE side............................I said that i didnt agree with the offense going into conserve mode. But that is not on the Offense. That is entirely on the OC / Head coach. Now with saying that could the offense execute those plays a little better. sure, but it makes it tough when the defense knows what your doing.
As far as the defense. They should be playing lights out defense no matter if we are ahead or behind in the fourth quarter. The only way I see a late score is by a short field or a turnover, or a huge lead and we are resting players.

[GrTigers6]

[QUOTE=Txbroadcaster;1656290]



Not so TXB! this forum was full of people blaming the losses to the Cardinals and the Patriots on the defense only. That couldn't be further from the truth. The defense had a 2 minute meltdown and a 58 minute great game in both games while the offense had 58 minutes of mediocrity in both games and yet to most of you it was entirely the defenses fault.Ok using that logic then Romo isnt responsible for the losses to Jets and Lions because he played lights out for 58 minutes instead of 60

[Farmersfan]

Your way too hung up on this Romo debate! I was NOT addressing the Romo debate that has taken over this TEBOW thread at all. I was simply answering Eagle 1's question "Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?" And I think everything in my answer was just simple common sense. Actually I wasnt thinking of any QB in particular when making my statements, but I do think a good D has assisted Tebow greatly. And I think just simple common sense will tell you, a good D is of great benefit to any QB, in most instances.


Ok, but you posted your question on a forum where we were having a debate about something in particular. Excuse me if I associated your comments to this thread. But you are still wrong. Common sense would tell you that a strong defense will HURT a QB's stats. Long drives and playing from behind is what builds stats. Strong defensive play will certainly help the OFFENSE but not the individual stats of the QB.................. My opinion of course. Have a great weekend!

[Farmersfan]

[QUOTE=Farmersfan;1656296]Ok using that logic then Romo isnt responsible for the losses to Jets and Lions because he played lights out for 58 minutes instead of 60



OK, I'll agree with this simplistic rationale if you tell me that the defense giving up 6 points in the final 3 minutes of the game is equal to the QB handing 21 points to the other team.....................................

I have to go home. Talk to everyone on Tuesday. Go Tebow!

[regaleagle]

What started out as a Tebow thread somehow?? spun off into a Cowboys/Romo thread. So regardless of the thread title, we are talking Romo here. I hate to burst any bubbles of you Romo-haters out there, but the Cowboys organization will not trade Romo when their concerns and needs are not at the qb posiition. No matter how some of the masses may feel, Romo will be qb for the Cowboys next year. Wanna put some money on it? I will. The Cowboys have glaring needs in the O line and secondary that MUST be addressed now. Romo is NOT the problem, and will NOT be traded. End of story.

[Eagle 1]

Are you serious? So I'm supposed to respect your opinions on Romo when you make comments like this?




Of course Romo is 47-30, but none of those were important.



Well, that settles it. A niners fan says Romo sucks. Are you wanting me to take you seriously?

Take it how you want, I really don't give a chit because I don't take any of your post serious.
A good defense doesn't have anything to do with a how good a qb is on OFFENSE. Field position doesn't make or break a good qb, you guys need to wake up.
My point is that even other teams see that Romo in not the GODDESS that some of YOU are making him out to be.

[Eagle 1]

It's always easier to believe there's something hidden or some conspiracy. You guys are so blinded by your bias, you don't even see how irrational you are.

Pot meet kettle.


http://oi44.tinypic.com/11c8lyw.jpg

[Eagle 1]

What started out as a Tebow thread somehow?? spun off into a Cowboys/Romo thread. So regardless of the thread title, we are talking Romo here. I hate to burst any bubbles of you Romo-haters out there, but the Cowboys organization will not trade Romo when their concerns and needs are not at the qb posiition. No matter how some of the masses may feel, Romo will be qb for the Cowboys next year. Wanna put some money on it? I will. The Cowboys have glaring needs in the O line and secondary that MUST be addressed now. Romo is NOT the problem, and will NOT be traded. End of story.

Cowboys won't win a SB with Romo as the qb. Want to put some money on it?
End of story.

[Eagle 1]

Your way too hung up on this Romo debate! I was NOT addressing the Romo debate that has taken over this TEBOW thread at all. I was simply answering Eagle 1's question "Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?" And I think everything in my answer was just simple common sense. Actually I wasnt thinking of any QB in particular when making my statements, but I do think a good D has assisted Tebow greatly. And I think just simple common sense will tell you, a good D is of great benefit to any QB, in most instances.

Here is some more logic for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYGkwQNKD_k

[Tejastrue]

What started out as a Tebow thread somehow?? spun off into a Cowboys/Romo thread. So regardless of the thread title, we are talking Romo here. I hate to burst any bubbles of you Romo-haters out there, but the Cowboys organization will not trade Romo when their concerns and needs are not at the qb posiition. No matter how some of the masses may feel, Romo will be qb for the Cowboys next year. Wanna put some money on it? I will. The Cowboys have glaring needs in the O line and secondary that MUST be addressed now. Romo is NOT the problem, and will NOT be traded. End of story.

This...:clap:

[GrTigers6]

Cowboys won't win a SB with Romo as the qb. Want to put some money on it?
End of story.That is such a dumb statement, Especially seeing some of the worst QB who have won a superbowl because of defense or really good running games. It all comes down to peaking at the right times and having a little consistency and teamwork.
Romo showed this year he can get the job done but he needs help from the defense and special teams and coaching to take it the distance. I dont understand how yall can say he cant do it when he had the fourth best season of all QB's this year. And that was playing hurt and with injured recievers.

[GrTigers6]

What started out as a Tebow thread somehow?? spun off into a Cowboys/Romo thread. So regardless of the thread title, we are talking Romo here. I hate to burst any bubbles of you Romo-haters out there, but the Cowboys organization will not trade Romo when their concerns and needs are not at the qb posiition. No matter how some of the masses may feel, Romo will be qb for the Cowboys next year. Wanna put some money on it? I will. The Cowboys have glaring needs in the O line and secondary that MUST be addressed now. Romo is NOT the problem, and will NOT be traded. End of story.i think they need to draft a qb to sit behind romo the next few years and learn. I hate drafting one and then starting them that season. it usually does more harm than good

[STANG RED]

Here is some more logic for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYGkwQNKD_k

I suppose this would prove something, if I said a QB cant get a score from 99 yards away. But since I never said that, your little video is a waste of time and space. If I were so inclined I bet I could find tons of videos of scores from 10,20,30 yards out, which proves it's much easier to score, the better your field position is.

[Eagle 1]

I suppose this would prove something, if I said a QB cant get a score from 99 yards away. But since I never said that, your little video is a waste of time and space. If I were so inclined I bet I could find tons of videos of scores from 10,20,30 yards out, which proves it's much easier to score, the better your field position is.

That video proves that a GOOD qb can score from anywhere on the field, which lays to rest your claim that a good defense makes a qb better. :wave:

[Eagle 1]

That is such a dumb statement, Especially seeing some of the worst QB who have won a superbowl because of defense or really good running games. It all comes down to peaking at the right times and having a little consistency and teamwork.
Romo showed this year he can get the job done but he needs help from the defense and special teams and coaching to take it the distance. I dont understand how yall can say he cant do it when he had the fourth best season of all QB's this year. And that was playing hurt and with injured recievers.

Care to make a gentlemens bet?

[Txbroadcaster]

Care to make a gentlemens bet?

be a stupid bet to take on ANY qb, way to many factors..person saying a QB will not win a SB will win almost every time

[STANG RED]

I never said a good QB couldnt score from anywhere on field. But why dont we see many of these 90+ scoring plays every week, yet we DO see many short field scoring plays every week? Could it be because its much easier to score from a shorter distance, than it is from 80, 90, 99 yds away? Dont bother answering, because anyone with half a brain already knows the answer. Which once again proves that good field position is an advantage to any QB, be he good or bad. So if he has a good D, that more consistantly puts him in good field position, he has a better chance of scoring more.
LOL, I cant believe I'm even having to argue this silly point.
I'd bet Tom Brady or any QB would tell you, they would much better start any drive from good field position, rather than backed up to their own goal line.

By your definition of a great QB, I guess this proves Romo is a great QB.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9VXRh43aEs
Of course it's only an 80 yd TD pass, so I guess Brady is 19 yds better. OK then, Romo sucks.

[Eagle 1]

I never said a good QB couldnt score from anywhere on field. But why dont we see many of these 90+ scoring plays every week, yet we DO see many short field scoring plays every week? Could it be because its much easier to score from a shorter distance, than it is from 80, 90, 99 yds away? Dont bother answering, because anyone with half a brain already knows the answer. Which once again proves that good field position is an advantage to any QB, be he good or bad. So if he has a good D, that more consistantly puts him in good field position, he has a better chance of scoring more.
LOL, I cant believe I'm even having to argue this silly point.
I'd bet Tom Brady or any QB would tell you, they would much better start any drive from good field position, rather than backed up to their own goal line.

I will answer.
A good offense can put your team in good field position.
Most teams score inside the redzone because they have drove the field with a good offense/good qb and NOT because the defense has put them there. This is not to say that a good defense can not force a short field turnover.
Your reaching here trying to defend your stand that a good defense makes a qb better. :)

[STANG RED]

I will answer.
A good offense can put your team in good field position.
Most teams score inside the redzone because they have drove the field with a good offense/good qb and NOT because the defense has put them there. This is not to say that a good defense can not force a short field turnover.
Your reaching here trying to defend your stand that a good defense makes a qb better. :)

LOL, all you have proven is you cant see the forest for the trees. Oh well, I'm tired of arguing the point with you, because we both are obviously sold on our positions. Good debate though, even if you are wrong.;)

[Eagle 1]

LOL, all you have proven is you cant see the forest for the trees. Oh well, I'm tired of arguing the point with you, because we both are obviously sold on our positions. Good debate though, even if you are right.;)

Of course I'm right.
I asked, "Can someone please explain how a good defense makes a qb better?"
And...you begin rambling about how a good defense can give you give good field position, which really has nothing to do with how this makes a qb better. Maybe in your eyes it makes him "appear" better because of the short field position.
Thanks for at least attempting to pile some sand. :wave: