Discipline

[Pudlugger]

A coach can exploit the talent of the players on his team in two different ways: by discipline such as in the Marines; or by emotion such as in the Super Bowl hype. If a team is not responsive to discipline because players either quit or won't come out, a coach can use emotion as a driving force. On the other hand, a team that is willing to submit itself to extreme discipline may lack the energy or creativeness to propel itself beyond its normal limits to win big games. What do you think wins championships, discipline or emotion?

I posted this last August. Now that Gainesville has defeated Burnet,
Marlin has been destroyed by Atlanta, Vernon has worked its way to the semi's, Jasper surprised Burnet, Bellville misfired against Marlin, and Forney played bridesmaid yet again what do you think? I feel this is a critical isssue in high school football. Imagine if you are a coach and have to decide whether to ride the players behinds close all year or let it slide a little and focus on reults for recognition. Which approach works in the final analysis? Which team ends up at State?/////

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Pudlugger ]</small>

[3afan]

the team with the best talent & the best coaching ends up at state

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

As Pudlugger was saying, he did start this topic earlier, and this is how I replied:

Really and truly, what wins football games is heart. You have to have it inside, the want and desire to play and put out to win, and to actually go out and do it. Discipline is a must. You have to be able to go out and do as the coach tells you to your best ability. You must also be disciplined enough to go out and train your body, eat right, not abuse your body, and get the proper amount of rest. You can do that and lose games. You have to have it deep inside of you to go out and push harder and dig deeper inside to win a game. You may be the best athlete to step out on the field, but you have to have heart to sacrifice and make the most of it. Heart is the instinct that drives us. Heart puts us on the field. Heart wins games, no matter what anybody says, because a player can only be disciplined as much as his heart wants him to be or pushes him to be for that matter. If you have heart, then you have discipline.

Even after the season is over I still stand by my reply to the previous post in August...it all starts with heart.

[3afan]

oh brother - you have all the heart but i'll take all the talent and i'll beat you every time (IMO)

[Green Ranger]

Talent won't get you anywhere in the real world. I would much rather the kid who has the heart and works hard and is not given a slap on the wrist for doing something bad. A quote from Cool Runnings and I have posted it several times before and I will post it again. If you are not any good without it, you will never be any good with it. I have a ring from last years Greenwood team but that doesnt make me a better person. The fact that we took that path and went through all the hardships does. But if we had lost the first year last year I would be no better for it. By not disciplining athletes and disciplining those who aren't you are telling this generation it is alright to discriminate. Yes athletics builds character and heart. The only thing I ask, be fair and equal to all, this is often not the case. How many athletes got an extra point or two on a report card when other dont, just be equal. My last point is Discipline begins at the home!

[jason]

ur not gonna win with heart...you have to have talent...you'd be crazy to think the team of 5'5" 100 lb kids with heart will beat a group of 6'0" 200 lb kids with athletic talents...its like comparing apples and oranges...

[Green Ranger]

I am saying winning is not going to get you everywhere in life. If all you do is win in high school, what happens when you are in the real world and you lose? There is more to life than Football and sports, yes they help but they are not everything. Saturday night one of my classmates died in a car accident, talent did her alot of good, she wasnt an athlete but it is her heart that will pack the church tomorrow for her funeral. Think about that one. The smiles she brought to everybodies faces and lives, not whether she scored the final bucket to win the district championship. It is the helping hand, character is what you are in the dark.

[29x281]

If you're trying to imply that the teams who lost in the playoffs were short on discipline, then you're making too broad a generalization.

Gainesville was a better team than Burnet, but not, in my opinion, perceptively more disciplined than Burnet. Of course discipline is a factor in determining who wins, but only one of several.

If discipline and character and heart win championships, then the Miami Hurricanes wouldn't have won 4 national titles in the last 20 years. Talent can overwhelm character. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing. It's football.

The gutty little guys who play with discipline, determination, and heart don't always win. Sometimes they get pasted.

[Pudlugger]

I'm not implying anything, just asking the question: how important is discipline in a successful run for the ring.

[marlin fan]

I think discipine is Very very important

[VWG]

Yes, talent without a doubt is important to have. If you take a look at some programs though, they win without the standout talent that their opponents might have.
A coaching staff has to instill team discipline. Without it, you might have a Keyshawn Johnson Jr. who has all the talent in the world but a ten cent head to screw it all up. I've seen very "talented" players thrown off teams before just because of discipline issues, and in the long run the team benefitted from it. It was like getting rid of a cancer that was eating away at the team.

[bulldogvet85]

this thought could go both ways there is no right or wrong answer. Here is one of my many beliefs about the game though.

THe start to a great football team starts at the core. Who is the core? THE COACH of course. Just like in a family house hold, the coach is the parent. If you discipline your kids right and teach tem respect for other adults and for there peers they will do so outside of your home. That only comes though with continus repition and disicipling them to do so. So the start to the great team is the coach he must disicipline his players to do the small things play after play after play. Only with constant discipline and repition will the achieve that. But the players must believe in there coach just like a child must have faith and trust in there parents. I think in most cases the coach can make or break a team. If the coach puts his foot down early with a team and keeps them inline but at the same time shows appreciation for his players hard work and disicpline, then your team and players will do wonders on and off the field. discipline in my opinion is the first and most important thing to have with a football team cuz without that you dont have anything. discipline teaches you the small things to help you achieve the bigger things, it's the foundation to a great football program.

[bulldogvet85]

Pudlugger:
a coach can use emotion as a driving force. What do you think wins championships, discipline or emotion?can you explain for me Pudlugger what you mean by that? using emotion as a driving force

[Pudlugger]

bulldogvet85:

Pudlugger:
a coach can use emotion as a driving force. What do you think wins championships, discipline or emotion?can you explain for me Pudlugger what you mean by that? using emotion as a driving forceWell in the movie Remember the Titans the team had problems jelling as a unit and lacked the will or the personal fortitude to put aside their own needs and prejudices and work together as a team. The captain hits upon an idea and the entire team comes on the field for the big game doing a choreographed soul dance routine. This pumped them up and brought them together as a team. Emotion can and is a tremendous unifier, especially when you are in a fox hole and all heck is raining down on you. If you can harness it and focus it in a co-ordinated fashion you amplify the power of the team as a unit. Marlin did this all year long (and in each of the last two games with La Grange) by scoring early on big plays striking like a tiger shark. [ Scuba divers tell me you never see a tiger coming, just feel the cold pain of your leg severed at the thigh.] Marlin made a living on this but the catch is that when the opposition turns it on you like Atlanta did with the spectacular 90 yard punt return in the outset, well then you have negative emotion . Negative emotion is the exact opposite of positive emotion, it demoralizes and disintegrates the team. That is my observation of what happened to a very talented and tough Bulldog team Friday night.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Discipline??? Marlin has none.

Now Pilot Point, on the other hand, THOSE ARE SOME REAL DISCIPLINED BOYS.

NOTICE the "non-homer" aspect of this post....... :D

<small>[ December 23, 2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: TarponFanInNorthTexas ]</small>

[lobo12]

you have to have both to win, but it is impossible to play good without emotion. if you are out there playing with no emotion, your just out there and you have no driving force. you must have some emotion that makes you want to do great and take you to the next level. that is how you win big games. if it comes down to the end of a big game and you have no emotion driving you then you have nothing to go off of to take you to that next level to get the victory. sorry if i dont make any sense its hard to explain.

[MARLINFAN]

Everone has to remeber that these are high school kids that live off emontions. lpudlugger you were right last sat night marlin was not use to coming back from behind. in every play- off game this yr we have struck early and fast. building off of the big play as it is called. when we went into the games i though both teams were evenly matched. but it seems that atl was faster and stronger. marlin still could have played with them but the early punt return and the 14-0 deficit killed the dogs. now as discpline goes i dont know what to say. in the 4th otr of the game it did get out of hand on the marlin sideline. alot of it had to deal with the emontions of 17,18,16,15 yr old men.it seems to me that has everone has attacked this team when we were losing and winning. no excuses were made sat we just plain out got beat.

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: MARLINFAN ]</small>

[vet93]

The merits of good discipline are exemplified in this year's Dallas Cowboys. Bill Parcells brought with him discipline in the form of accountability. You see...the players realized that to play for Bill they had to give a certain level of effort and focus. If this effort and focus was not maintained then you are not only not going to start but you will be gone next year. But...what you don't often see is that Bill has also built a relationship with these players too. They know that if you meet his criteria for effort and focus that he will go to bat for you and that he cares about his players. Therefore, for discipline to be affective the coach must also have established a caring relationship with his players. This is much like the parenting concept of "Discipline without Relationship = Rebellion". If you come in and make demands without establishing the relationship, then the kids will rebel and underperform. Emotion is very important and will help you win games, but emotion will not be with you in every game or situation. That is where discipline kicks in. Discipline will win you the games that you are supposed to win. Discipline + emotion will win you the game where you are outmatched or evenly matched.

[poncho]

vet93:
The merits of good discipline are exemplified in this year's Dallas Cowboys. Bill Parcells brought with him discipline in the form of accountability. You see...the players realized that to play for Bill they had to give a certain level of effort and focus. If this effort and focus was not maintained then you are not only not going to start but you will be gone next year. But...what you don't often see is that Bill has also built a relationship with these players too. They know that if you meet his criteria for effort and focus that he will go to bat for you and that he cares about his players. Therefore, for discipline to be affective the coach must also have established a caring relationship with his players. This is much like the parenting concept of "Discipline without Relationship = Rebellion". If you come in and make demands without establishing the relationship, then the kids will rebel and underperform. Emotion is very important and will help you win games, but emotion will not be with you in every game or situation. That is where discipline kicks in. Discipline will win you the games that you are supposed to win. Discipline + emotion will win you the game where you are outmatched or evenly matched.DITTO!!!!I don't need to add anything!!! VET93 you da man. :cool: :D

[bulldogvet85]

vet93:
The merits of good discipline are exemplified in this year's Dallas Cowboys. Bill Parcells brought with him discipline in the form of accountability. You see...the players realized that to play for Bill they had to give a certain level of effort and focus. If this effort and focus was not maintained then you are not only not going to start but you will be gone next year. But...what you don't often see is that Bill has also built a relationship with these players too. They know that if you meet his criteria for effort and focus that he will go to bat for you and that he cares about his players. Therefore, for discipline to be affective the coach must also have established a caring relationship with his players. This is much like the parenting concept of "Discipline without Relationship = Rebellion". If you come in and make demands without establishing the relationship, then the kids will rebel and underperform. Emotion is very important and will help you win games, but emotion will not be with you in every game or situation. That is where discipline kicks in. Discipline will win you the games that you are supposed to win. Discipline + emotion will win you the game where you are outmatched or evenly matched.as much as I hate dont like the cowboys I have to agree with vet93. good post vet!! WHat bill has done is what every coach needs to do but won't happen bill is one of a kind and an outstanding coach.

[poncho]

ttt