Paterno (merged)

[shamu85]

Did I say that? NO I DIDNT!! I said the coaches at those type schools have the same power Paterno had. My gosh, read what is said, not what you interpret.




BEAST

Well, you didn't say anything, but you wrote, "Do you think it is any different at any of the other big time D1 schools?" Based on this question and your comment about nobody saying anything regarding Bowden crapping in the gym, I inferred that you meant nobody at any of the other big time D1 schools would say anything against the football program, even to the point of child molestation. Perhaps that is not what you meant. If not, then my mistake.

Yes, I am ready to blast anything in this story that remotely resembles defense of anyone or any action in the sordid PSU tale. In my opinion, this has been one of the most revealing incidents of cowardice of so-called "men" that I have ever seen.

[shamu85]

What world do you live in? In the real world there are millions and millions of people who would sell there own mothers if the price was right. As Lord Acton said "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men". I completely agree with this and if you don't believe it then you haven't been paying attention................ Even men who do the right thing most of the time do it for the wrong reasons!

I live in a world where I expect males to be MEN!! So, you mean to tell me that you think anyone in the situation of PSU would have turned their backs on kids being molested? Wow, what a sad sad view of the world. If we don't expect it, it's certainly going to happen with less frequency. If you tolerate it, you deserve it.

[Old LB]

What world do you live in? In the real world there are millions and millions of people who would sell there own mothers if the price was right. As Lord Acton said "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men". I completely agree with this and if you don't believe it then you haven't been paying attention................ Even men who do the right thing most of the time do it for the wrong reasons!

As true a statement as I have ever read on this board!

[LIONS#1]

Did I say that? NO I DIDNT!! I said the coaches at those type schools have the same power Paterno had. My gosh, read what is said, not what you interpret.




BEAST

Those Type Schools? What does that imply Beast? I assume you meant Schools that KEEP their coaches longer than every few years. Just wondering:1popcorn: Surely you aren't implying that Brown has more power at UT than Sherman has at A&M....LOL Big Time D-1 Schools also include ATM ?...I think.....well maybe NOT...LMAO:stirpot:
OK back to your regular scheduled programming!!!:1popcorn:

[shamu85]

As true a statement as I have ever read on this board!

I won't disagree with the notion that there are a lot of folks who would sell their own mothers for the right price, but my point is that the "it happens everywhere" approach puts us on the slippery slope of tolerating it because it happens so often. At some point, these men and others at similar places, have to be held accountable for their actions and behavior, just like everyone else. Not doing so perpetuates all of it.

[LIONS#1]

What world do you live in? In the real world there are millions and millions of people who would sell there own mothers if the price was right. As Lord Acton said "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men". I completely agree with this and if you don't believe it then you haven't been paying attention................ Even men who do the right thing most of the time do it for the wrong reasons!

Take our current President for instance this would fit your Lord's assumption correctly.....oops wrong forum...MY BAD!!:1popcorn:

[Old LB]

I live in a world where I expect males to be MEN!! So, you mean to tell me that you think anyone in the situation of PSU would have turned their backs on kids being molested? Wow, what a sad sad view of the world. If we don't expect it, it's certainly going to happen with less frequency. If you tolerate it, you deserve it.

I totally agree with your statement, as do the others I would imagine, but it is a simple fact that the world is full of corruption. It would be nice to think we could correct that with our expectations of each other but the simple fact is that the corrupt folks of this world could care less about our expectations.

[BwdLion73]

These are interesting thoughts and ideas being batted about. Reading the post by Shamu85 got me to thinking....Even the prison environment where all the bad men are the one thing they will not tolerate or look away from is child molestation. Its hard to get around the fact that it was not handled this way at Penn.

[shamu85]

I totally agree with your statement, as do the others I would imagine, but it is a simple fact that the world is full of corruption. It would be nice to think we could correct that with our expectations of each other but the simple fact is that the corrupt folks of this world couldn'tcare less about our expectations.
FIFY.

I don't think we can fix it completely either, but we can certainly prevent some of it by holding those accountable who do act in a corrupt way. That's what "civilizations" do. You would be amazed what expectations can do. Just take a look at children who know what is expected of them vs those who don't. We start off early in this life needing to understand our parameters. Obviously, there are sociopaths out there that don't conform to this, but that is what, hopefully, gets minimized in its amount.

[LIONS#1]

http://onwardstate.com/2011/11/22/shame-on-you-wall-street-journal/

[BEAST]

Well, you didn't say anything, but you wrote, "Do you think it is any different at any of the other big time D1 schools?" Based on this question and your comment about nobody saying anything regarding Bowden crapping in the gym, I inferred that you meant nobody at any of the other big time D1 schools would say anything against the football program, even to the point of child molestation. Perhaps that is not what you meant. If not, then my mistake.

Yes, I am ready to blast anything in this story that remotely resembles defense of anyone or any action in the sordid PSU tale. In my opinion, this has been one of the most revealing incidents of cowardice of so-called "men" that I have ever seen.

The remark about "who holds the trump card at UT" should have given you the idea that I was talking about power. FF picked up on it really quick.




BEAST

[BEAST]

I live in a world where I expect males to be MEN!! So, you mean to tell me that you think anyone in the situation of PSU would have turned their backs on kids being molested? Wow, what a sad sad view of the world. If we don't expect it, it's certainly going to happen with less frequency. If you tolerate it, you deserve it.


You have totally taken the article out of context. The article was about Paternos power. Not so much about the crimes that Sandusky committed. Good lord!!




BEAST

[shamu85]

This is probably my biggest issue with this whole mess. Nobody at Penn State, it seems, wants to admit anyone was wrong and commit to fixing what are obviously problems with their "system". I realize that there are lots of things that go on as far as corruption at other big D1 football schools, but to compound things in Pennsylvania, there are several public univesities that are exempt from the state's open records law.

[shamu85]

You have totally taken the article out of context. The article was about Paternos power. Not so much about the crimes that Sandusky committed. Good lord!!




BEAST

It's all the same context!!! You miss the point of the article. It's a systemic problem that started with the head coach of the football program. Nobody wanted to speak out against the crimes because it would have been speaking out against the football program. You can't separate these two issues.

[BEAST]

It's all the same context!!! You miss the point of the article. It's a systemic problem that started with the head coach of the football program. Nobody wanted to speak out against the crimes because it would have been speaking out against the football program. You can't separate these two issues.


You have got to look past this issue for a moment. I hate what happened here and am sickened by it completely. But please look at the name of the thread and the title of the article. Its about far reaching power in every case. Things that happened in PSU long before this came about. Other major college coaches have the same power. You wanna know where they get that power? They get it because their football programs bring in zillions of dollars for their univerisities.




BEAST

[shamu85]

You have got to look past this issue for a moment. I hate what happened here and am sickened by it completely. But please look at the name of the thread and the title of the article. Its about far reaching power in every case. Things that happened in PSU long before this came about. Other major college coaches have the same power. You wanna know where they get that power? They get it because their football programs bring in zillions of dollars for their univerisities.




BEAST

Actually, these things were happening simultaneously. I agree that it is about Paterno's power, but it would never have been written had the Sandusky issues not come to light. It was written, I would suspect, because all of the Paterno defenders. The fact that he was asking for the exclusions of criminal behavior because it was off campus, the fact that he was willing to use his power to get what he wanted, all flies in the face of "I did what I should have by reporting the incidents to my 'superiors'.."

Yes, there is a lot of money associated with big time college football, and lots of tools running things because of that. Like the tool from Ohio State, Gee. However, I would still like to think that there are some of these places, even the big time programs, that would have handled things much differently. In fact, Texas and A&M both have demonstrated a different approach to much less aggregious behavior in the recent past. Despite what you might think, I am not naive on this issue. I realize that there are a lot of corrupt folks who will do whatever to maintain their "perch" in life. But, I do think that as a society, it should still be unacceptable and so demonstrated.

[JustAFan]

I don't think we can fix it completely either, but we can certainly prevent some of it by holding those accountable who do act in a corrupt way. That's what "civilizations" do. You would be amazed what expectations can do.

So you think there was nobody who expected them to do what is right? I think most people expected them to do what is right, but they didn't! FF got it right (Am I really agreeing with FF?). No matter what the expectations, people with absolute power will do what they want. Say what you will about "holding them to higher standards" "having higher expectations", etc. The people in the administration (football and university) at PSU chose to do what they wanted, even though most sane men (and women) would have expected them to do more.

You can't prevent anything by accountability if the person does not care, you can only punish/discipline.

[shamu85]

So you think there was nobody who expected them to do what is right? I think most people expected them to do what is right, but they didn't! FF got it right (Am I really agreeing with FF?). No matter what the expectations, people with absolute power will do what they want. Say what you will about "holding them to higher standards" "having higher expectations", etc. The people in the administration (football and university) at PSU chose to do what they wanted, even though most sane men (and women) would have expected them to do more.

You can't prevent anything by accountability if the person does not care, you can only punish/discipline.

Agreed, but you gotta ask how did these people get absolute power? Because there were no expectations of doing right, only bringing in more $'s and winning. I also agree that accountability doesn't prevent deviant behavior by those who don't care. I am only expressing that I think that most people, even in the "big D1 programs" do care, at least enough to stop child abuse. We all thought that Paterno cared, but obviously, he did not.I hope this whole affair causes more people to care about doing the right thing and to expect their leaders to do the same.