World Series game 1

[Farmersfan]

So far Carpenter is looking very hittable. The Rangers are taking really poor swings at it right now but they should start tagging this guy.

[Eagle 1]

The Cards two run hit was outside the white line. The replay showed it.
To bad instant replay is not used on the foul lines.

[eagleqb_14]

mike napoliiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!! 2-2

[bigwood33]

mike napoliiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!! 2-2
Stud!

[Txbroadcaster]

The Cards two run hit was outside the white line. The replay showed it.
To bad instant replay is not used on the foul lines.


as long as it crosses over the bag it is fair..does not matter where it hits before the bag

[Tin Cup]

Carpenter looks hittable because he's being very cautious like CJ. How would you pitch to the Rangers. I would never want to throw a strike lol

[Emerson1]

as long as it crosses over the bag it is fair..does not matter where it hits before the bag
after the bag?

[Tin Cup]

Why Gentry for Murphy? That doesn't make since ever

[bigwood33]

I hope the Rangers greet Dotel in the same manner as they usually have over his career....by ROCKING HIM!

[ExScoop]

Two more chances to left to tie it and then win it

[Tin Cup]

8th and 9th lineup couldn't be any better for the Rangers. Just wish we had the lead instead lol

[bigwood33]

What's up with Fox's behind the catcher camera angle...it SUCKS!

[Tin Cup]

What's up with Fox's behind the catcher camera angle...it SUCKS!

Could not agree more. The infrared on the other hand is very cool

[bigwood33]

The infrared on the other hand is very cool
Yea, it's pretty cool but serves no purpose.

[TheDOCTORdre]

the agony of de"feet"

[Tin Cup]

Pointless but showed the ball hitting Beltre. Obviously it was close but I still like it.

Both bullpens were very good tonight. Ogando just needed 1 more good pitch.

[ExScoop]

Tough loss-Hopefully tomorrow will be a different story

[Roughneck93]

Yeah that was a tough loss. Need to bounce back with a win tomorrow.

[trojandad]

tonight reminded me of ted williams saying a player should be fined $1,000 for every strike 3 taken with the bat on his shoulders....(adjusted for salary, of course)....

[Farmersfan]

OK, nobody has said anything so i guess I will be the negative Nancy here:

Going into this matchup a lot of people were saying it could very well be decided by the Managers and their decisions. Nobody expected Washington to go RETARDED in the 7th though. With 2 runners on and 1 out in the top of the 7th pinch hitting for Murphy right now is very, very questionable but to do it with Gentry is downright stupid! (even with a lefty pitcher coming in) but as if that isn't enough Washington follows that up with pinch hitting for Ogando with Estaban German. WHO? That's right, German! German has had a grand total of 11 at bats this entire season!!!!!!!! With Torrealba on the bench he bats a guy who has 11 at bats in 13 starts the entire year...................
Can you say choke? If not a complete choke by Washington that was at least a case of really, really over-thinking things.

[trojandad]

OK, nobody has said anything so i guess I will be the negative Nancy here:

Going into this matchup a lot of people were saying it could very well be decided by the Managers and their decisions. Nobody expected Washington to go RETARDED in the 7th though. With 2 runners on and 1 out in the top of the 7th pinch hitting for Murphy right now is very, very questionable but to do it with Gentry is downright stupid! (even with a lefty pitcher coming in) but as if that isn't enough Washington follows that up with pinch hitting for Ogando with Estaban German. WHO? That's right, German! German has had a grand total of 11 at bats this entire season!!!!!!!! With Torrealba on the bench he bats a guy who has 11 at bats in 13 starts the entire year...................
Can you say choke? If not a complete choke by Washington that was at least a case of really, really over-thinking things.

COMPLETELY agree, but he can send babe ruth out there and if they are gonna watch strike 3 called like its a midseason game, whats it gonna help....its ashamed major leaguers have to be told "dont leave the game in the umps hands!!"....oh well, next....

[Farmersfan]

COMPLETELY agree, but he can send babe ruth out there and if they are gonna watch strike 3 called like its a midseason game, whats it gonna help....its ashamed major leaguers have to be told "dont leave the game in the umps hands!!"....oh well, next....



I have two other issues that concern me. Perhaps a indication of things to come and perhaps nothing to really worry about.

1. That fly ball down the 1st base line that Nelson Cruz missed seemed very poorly played to me. Nelson appeared to feel he was in danger of hitting the wall. It looked like Nelson slid his way out of that play when he didn't have to. He could have simply run through the ball and made the catch. Or did I see it wrong?

2. Josh Hamilton fields a fly ball at the center field wall and is so slow and lazy in getting the ball back in that the runner at first is able to tag up and go to second. That NEVER happens in the majors. It appears to me Josh was completely taken by surprise on that play. How could he be so lax as to be taken by surprise in the World Series?

[trojandad]

I have two other issues that concern me. Perhaps a indication of things to come and perhaps nothing to really worry about.

1. That fly ball down the 1st base line that Nelson Cruz missed seemed very poorly played to me. Nelson appeared to feel he was in danger of hitting the wall. It looked like Nelson slid his way out of that play when he didn't have to. He could have simply run through the ball and made the catch. Or did I see it wrong?

2. Josh Hamilton fields a fly ball at the center field wall and is so slow and lazy in getting the ball back in that the runner at first is able to tag up and go to second. That NEVER happens in the majors. It appears to me Josh was completely taken by surprise on that play. How could he be so lax as to be taken by surprise in the World Series?

ill go one better, if you have it tevoed watch the cardinal batters, except for the two power hitters it appeared were intentionally trying to go to right field, i think larussa sees something there in cruz's defense....i think (and could be wrong) that larussa will take tempting cruz's arm on the chance of testing his fielding...

and yea, my buddy said the exact same thing on hamiltons play...if he wasnt lax its bad that it appeared so....

[MGAR]

I have two other issues that concern me. Perhaps a indication of things to come and perhaps nothing to really worry about.

1. That fly ball down the 1st base line that Nelson Cruz missed seemed very poorly played to me. Nelson appeared to feel he was in danger of hitting the wall. It looked like Nelson slid his way out of that play when he didn't have to. He could have simply run through the ball and made the catch. Or did I see it wrong?



His big ol' dip in his mouth got in the way of him seeing how close he was to the wall. lol

[Macarthur]

OK, nobody has said anything so i guess I will be the negative Nancy here:

Going into this matchup a lot of people were saying it could very well be decided by the Managers and their decisions. Nobody expected Washington to go RETARDED in the 7th though. With 2 runners on and 1 out in the top of the 7th pinch hitting for Murphy right now is very, very questionable but to do it with Gentry is downright stupid! (even with a lefty pitcher coming in) but as if that isn't enough Washington follows that up with pinch hitting for Ogando with Estaban German. WHO? That's right, German! German has had a grand total of 11 at bats this entire season!!!!!!!! With Torrealba on the bench he bats a guy who has 11 at bats in 13 starts the entire year...................
Can you say choke? If not a complete choke by Washington that was at least a case of really, really over-thinking things.

I don't have a huge problem with Gentry because he's played fairly well this year and he's really hard to double up. I do have a huge problem with German. The guy has had 11 ABs all season. This was a colossal mistake. Really have a problem with this one.

[Macarthur]

I have two other issues that concern me. Perhaps a indication of things to come and perhaps nothing to really worry about.

1. That fly ball down the 1st base line that Nelson Cruz missed seemed very poorly played to me. Nelson appeared to feel he was in danger of hitting the wall. It looked like Nelson slid his way out of that play when he didn't have to. He could have simply run through the ball and made the catch. Or did I see it wrong?

2. Josh Hamilton fields a fly ball at the center field wall and is so slow and lazy in getting the ball back in that the runner at first is able to tag up and go to second. That NEVER happens in the majors. It appears to me Josh was completely taken by surprise on that play. How could he be so lax as to be taken by surprise in the World Series?

I disagree on the Hamilton play. It does happnen; the rangers have done it several times this year. Josh was at the wall. That's a very long throw and he was moving backwards. That was a good play by the runner and no one in the league could have made that out at 2nd.

[MGAR]

I don't have a huge problem with Gentry because he's played fairly well this year and he's really hard to double up. I do have a huge problem with German. The guy has had 11 ABs all season. This was a colossal mistake. Really have a problem with this one.

Gotta think if Washington was "thinking to much" with La Russa sitting in the other dugout?

[trojandad]

I disagree on the Hamilton play. It does happnen; the rangers have done it several times this year. Josh was at the wall. That's a very long throw and he was moving backwards. That was a good play by the runner and no one in the league could have made that out at 2nd.

ok, but in a series, where a single play has turned SO many games so far, dont you at the very least show the cards that youll be turning and throwing, even if its an impossible throw? i mean the runner can fall down, miss a bag....id at the very least put a bug in their minds....

when theyd interview willie mays about "the catch" he tells everyone hes not the proudest of the catch, but of wheeling and holding the runner...he wasnt gonna throw anyone out, but id be throwing the ball, nonetheless....

[Macarthur]

I frankly didn't pay much attention to Josh' reaction. He may have been too lax and was surprised, but even if he plants and fires that in, I still don't think there is anyway in the world that runner is out.

[Roughneck93]

I don't have a huge problem with Gentry because he's played fairly well this year and he's really hard to double up. I do have a huge problem with German. The guy has had 11 ABs all season. This was a colossal mistake. Really have a problem with this one.

Completely agree on the German AB.

[Farmersfan]

I frankly didn't pay much attention to Josh' reaction. He may have been too lax and was surprised, but even if he plants and fires that in, I still don't think there is anyway in the world that runner is out.



Josh caught the ball and took about 3 slow steps towards the wall with his back to the runner. There was no quick turn and fire of the ball to second. There was no urgency by Josh to get the ball back into play. I have watched proabably 50 Ranger games this season alone and I have never seen a runner advance to second on a Sac Fly to ANY part of the outfield much less center field. (unless of course the ball is played somewhere else by the outfielder). If Hamilton catches, turns and fires that ball there is not a chance in hell the runner even leaves 1st on the tag up and if he does he is thrown out by 20'.

[CHS_89]

as long as it crosses over the bag it is fair..does not matter where it hits before the bag

That two run hit by Berkman hit in the dirt behind the foul line and was foul off of the bat before it went fair. Replay clearly showed that. I think it was a foul ball.

[Farmersfan]

I don't have a huge problem with Gentry because he's played fairly well this year and he's really hard to double up. I do have a huge problem with German. The guy has had 11 ABs all season. This was a colossal mistake. Really have a problem with this one.



The question is do you think a cold Gentry who hasn't played in months gives you a better chance than a hot Murphy? Even against lefties where Murphy has been pretty bad (batting 200 on the season) Gentry only hits .265. And Murphy has been our second best hitter in the playoffs. I liked our odds with Murphy over Gentry but that's what Wash gets paid to decide. I just think he was completely intimidated by the Cards manager and was trying to match him move for move.

[Farmersfan]

That two run hit by Berkman hit in the dirt behind the foul line and was foul off of the bat before it went fair. Replay clearly showed that. I think it was a foul ball.



Beltre was also called out on a ball that fouled off his foot. The refs didn't have a great game in this game #1.

[Tin Cup]

Every manager "overmanages" in the playoffs. The NL has an advantage in these games because they are in the normal day to day baseball at home, then get even better at the AL park. If German executes like Craig we aren't talking about it. Sure, I would rather see Torrealba in that situation but it doesn't matter if they don't execute. I know Craig is a good hitter but I'll take Ogando in that matchup 100 times out of 100.

Hamilton looked lazy because he's hurt. He would not have made the out at 2nd from the warning track even being behind the ball.

Cruz is paid for RBIs and big hits, not his defense.

The Berkman hit was a fair ball because it passed the bag in fair ground. A bunt can roll foul and then come back fair and it's a fair ball.

We put the pressure on the Cardinal pitching all night long we just couldn't get the runs across.

[MGAR]

Beltre was also called out on a ball that fouled off his foot. The refs didn't have a great game in this game #1.

I have never seen a ref in a baseball game. Do they dress like umpires? or do they wear their stripes? :stirpot:

You could be right though on the foul ball call.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2011/10/20/2502777/the-adrian-beltre-foul-ball-that-was-not-called-foul-in-infrared

BTW, I know a lot of Ranger fans who are making this out to be the next Steve Bartman.

[Saggy Aggie]

That two run hit by Berkman hit in the dirt behind the foul line and was foul off of the bat before it went fair. Replay clearly showed that. I think it was a foul ball. clearly you don't understand the rules of baseball.

[Tejastrue]

Man, Ranger fans...how quickly we turn...we'll be just fine

[Tin Cup]

Man, Ranger fans...how quickly we turn...we'll be just fine

Coaches/Managers live and die with wins and losses. A few weeks back some on here were saying Ron was overthinking our pitching. The experts have said our bullpen has been the best in the postseason.

The Beltre foul ball was extremely hard to tell it hit his foot even after reviews. You can't always go in player reaction. See Derek Jeter play

[Eagle 1]

as long as it crosses over the bag it is fair..does not matter where it hits before the bag

I didn't know that. I thought if it hits outside the line before it crosses the bag it was a foul.

[Txbroadcaster]

Coaches/Managers live and die with wins and losses. A few weeks back some on here were saying Ron was overthinking our pitching. The experts have said our bullpen has been the best in the postseason.

The Beltre foul ball was extremely hard to tell it hit his foot even after reviews. You can't always go in player reaction. See Derek Jeter play


I disagree this time about reactions because it was split second..Like McCarver said you cant fake a reaction that quick....in saying that..people act like that was the difference in the game. All it would have done is put one on with one out. Nothing guaranteed after that

[Emerson1]

The Beltre foul ball was extremely hard to tell it hit his foot even after reviews. You can't always go in player reaction. See Derek Jeter play
The infrared showed that it did. There is nothing to debate here.

[Macarthur]

Josh caught the ball and took about 3 slow steps towards the wall with his back to the runner. There was no quick turn and fire of the ball to second. There was no urgency by Josh to get the ball back into play. I have watched proabably 50 Ranger games this season alone and I have never seen a runner advance to second on a Sac Fly to ANY part of the outfield much less center field. (unless of course the ball is played somewhere else by the outfielder). If Hamilton catches, turns and fires that ball there is not a chance in hell the runner even leaves 1st on the tag up and if he does he is thrown out by 20'.

Well, I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's not that rare for someone to tag up at first. As one poster said, Josh is hurt in a bad way. The talk on the radio today is that if this were not the playoffs, Josh would be sitting. If he's right, he is sitting under that ball waiting for it to come down instead of still having to run under it. He's not right.

[Macarthur]

The question is do you think a cold Gentry who hasn't played in months gives you a better chance than a hot Murphy?

Murphy is struggling against lefties and Marc Rzepczynski is extra tough on lefties. If you consider Gentry's speed (hard to double up) and going in to center to improve the defense, yes, I do not have a problem with that move.


Even against lefties where Murphy has been pretty bad (batting 200 on the season) Gentry only hits .265. And Murphy has been our second best hitter in the playoffs. I liked our odds with Murphy over Gentry but that's what Wash gets paid to decide.

When you couple Murphy's struggles with Rzepczynski's .163 versus lefties, it was just a bad matchup for Murph. I'm a huge fan of Murph; I would not have had a problem with Wash leaving him, but I also don't have an issue with the change for the reasons above.


I just think he was completely intimidated by the Cards manager and was trying to match him move for move.

Maybe so.

Ultimately, that lineup has to be more productive. If Hamilton, Young, Kins and Elvis continue to be invisible, the managerial moves won't make a bit of difference.

[hollywood]

Rangers played easy and let the Cards have the 1st game so they could take the WS the 5th game in Texas! :)

[CHS_89]

clearly you don't understand the rules of baseball.

LOL, you're right. I am catching all kind of heck on facebook too...Keep em coming, I can take it.

[TheDOCTORdre]

Rangers played easy and let the Cards have the 1st game so they could take the WS the 5th game in Texas! :)

isn't the 4th game in Texas too?

[CHS_89]

I didn't know that. I thought if it hits outside the line before it crosses the bag it was a foul.

My thoughts too...Even ESPN was talking about the foul ball missed call. I guess they clearly don't know the rules either.

[Txbroadcaster]

My thoughts too...Even ESPN was talking about the foul ball missed call. I guess they clearly don't know the rules either.

mis read edit

[Farmersfan]

clearly you don't understand the rules of baseball.



I guess since we don't and apparently you do then please explain how a hit ball can go foul, land in foul territory first and then bounce fair and be called a fair ball? Even a bunt must first land inside the foul line before it can roll foul and then come back fair again.............

[Macarthur]

I guess since we don't and apparently you do then please explain how a hit ball can go foul, land in foul territory first and then bounce fair and be called a fair ball? Even a bunt must first land inside the foul line before it can roll foul and then come back fair again.............

http://baseball-rules.com/fairfoul.htm

[Tejastrue]

http://baseball-rules.com/fairfoul.htm

Not debating the non-call but this says nothing about hitting the ground in foul territory first before becoming fair...

[Txbroadcaster]

Not debating the non-call but this says nothing about hitting the ground in foul territory first before becoming fair...

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.

[Emerson1]

Trade Hamilton. To injury prone.

[GrTigers6]

Coaches/Managers live and die with wins and losses. A few weeks back some on here were saying Ron was overthinking our pitching. The experts have said our bullpen has been the best in the postseason.

The Beltre foul ball was extremely hard to tell it hit his foot even after reviews. You can't always go in player reaction. See Derek Jeter playNo ball player can react that quickly if they were faking it. they arent paid for their acting skills.:D

[GrTigers6]

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.In addition the ball could bounce off the pitchers rubber and going into the dugout and its foul!

[Tejastrue]

Ground balls that bound between home and first, or home and third are a little tricky. The ball is not ruled fair or foul, until the ball comes to a stop, is touched by a fielder, or goes past first or third base.

The ball may zig-zag, back-and-forth, between fair and foul ground an unlimited number of times. The ruling of fair or foul is not made until the ball finally comes to a stop, or is touched, or goes past first or third base.

Yeah, I read that...still..nothing about an infield ground ball starting out in foul territory...I get the ball rolling zig-zag and all that but I also get why FF is questioning it...can't say I've seen anthing like that before...

[Txbroadcaster]

Yeah, I read that...still..nothing about an infield ground ball starting out in foul territory...I get the ball rolling zig-zag and all that but I also get why FF is questioning it...can't say I've seen anthing like that before...

there is nothing about it because the rules to not make a distinction...read the rule..it does not say a ball hit in fair territory it simply says a ball hit.

[Macarthur]

Yeah, I read that...still..nothing about an infield ground ball starting out in foul territory...I get the ball rolling zig-zag and all that but I also get why FF is questioning it...can't say I've seen anthing like that before...

It explains it perfectly. Your block is it hitting foul FIRST. The answer is it doesn't matter where it hits first. It's where it ends up, where it's touched or where it crosses the base.

[Farmersfan]

http://baseball-rules.com/fairfoul.htm



Well there you go! I guess that ball was really a fair ball then. Never too old to learn............ Thanks.

[Eagle 1]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know the rules of baseball. I just thought outside the white line before the ball passes first or third is a foul ball.
I replayed it and the ball hit outside the line. However, I can understand in real time may not have looked like that.
Wierd rule to say the least, and even though I don't watch baseball very much, I have never seen that happen either.

[Txbroadcaster]

On the Hamilton play....I dont think people realize how hurt he is...You could tell on one of his at bats that was a routine fly out that he hit the ball squarely but could not get any power behind it because of his groin...also a couple of his doubles in the ALDS would have been home runs but again he cannot get any torque

so I dont think he was being lazy or was surprised, I think he knew the chance to make that out is slim and he was not going to try to spin around and extend out to throw

[Macarthur]

Yeah, Josh is in a bad way.

[Tejastrue]

there is nothing about it because the rules to not make a distinction...read the rule..it does not say a ball hit in fair territory it simply says a ball hit.


You just made my point TXB, there is nothing stating the ball is required to hit fair or foul first..the first instinct for some was to question whether it was a foul ball..I said I understood why...if we all knew everything there is to know about football, baseball etc., including the rules and their interpretations by heart this would be one boring forum..fortunately we have enough know it alls to keep it interesting... :wave:

[Tejastrue]

It explains it perfectly. Your block is it hitting foul FIRST. The answer is it doesn't matter where it hits first. It's where it ends up, where it's touched or where it crosses the base.

I get it Mac..again, my point was I can see why it was questioned... but you're right...thanks for not being arrogant about it..:clap:

[Farmersfan]

Macarthur=Arrogant :stirpot::wave:

[Macarthur]

Oh, come on. I wasn't being arrogant.

[Tin Cup]

Everyone on this board agrees the ball hit Beltre while he was still in batters box. My only point is if you need a never before seen infrared camera to see it then it's very very close and super easy for a human to miss. As much as Beltre hits himself it would not be that much of a stretch to realize it could "buy him an extra swing."

It's baseball and none of the plays mentioned won or lost the game by themselves. It's a best of seven series not best of one. Go Rangers.

[Tejastrue]

Oh, come on. I wasn't being arrogant.

May need to check the the rulebook...:thinking: