UIL To Continue Study of Div. 1/2 in 3A

[Matthew328]

The University Interscholastic League Policy Committee listened to proposal to divide Class 3A football into two divisions.

Wary of adding financial burdens to schools the committee chose to recommend continued study on all three items.

Class 3A football currently has two divisions in the playoffs, but not during the regular season like the system used for Class 1A and 2A. Tatum ISD superintendent Dee Hartt proposed to the Legislative Council that Class 3A football teams be separated into divisions prior to the playoffs an idea which originated from a staff study presented in a 2006 spring Athletics Committee meeting. He cited Class 3A’s disparity between the size of its largest school and its smallest as the reason for the change.

This is a constant issue for the UIL, which has made Class 3A the state’s smallest classification with 182 football teams in comparison to other conferences that have 200 or more teams. Despite the efforts, 3A football can have a school with 430 students compete against school of 989 students.

At the June UIL Athletics Committee meeting, the Committee did not vote to approve splitting Class 3A despite a Spring 2011 3A superintendent survey response that was 73 to 70 (51 percent) in favor of using a split conference. The proposal was discussed in both the Athletics and Policy Committees Sunday with the Policy Committee recommending the UIL continuing to monitor.

“As far as equity it makes sense,” Executive director Charles Breithaupt said. “It’s a question of would be more travel. And you’re going to have more travel.”

The worry over increased travel had the Policy Committee hesitating. The Committee considered putting an item on a referendum ballot increasing 3A football’s playoff representation to four teams. Director of athletics Mark Cousins even suggested flipping the current divisional representation as a stop-gap measure. This would allow a 3A football district’s two largest playoff representatives participate in Division I, while Division II had the district’s smallest playoff representative. Currently a district’s largest playoff representative goes in Division I, while Division II is the remaining two schools.

[oleonetime2]

I would like to know of the 70 superintendents that voted against it, how many of them were from big 3A schools and how many of the 73 that voted for it were from small schools. 143 of the 182 superintendents voted and you would think that the majority vote would prevail. If there are two many schools in 4A and 5A then splitting 3A would help with that problem. You could split 3A raise the top number in 3A and 4A and it would help balance out the number of schools in those classes. I know there is a lot more that goes into the decision making than that but it sure is unfair to 3A the way it is done know.

[Txbroadcaster]

This falls in line with my belief they are going to stretch out 3A this year on the top side and basically force 3A to be split into divisions.

[GrTigers6]

I would like to know of the 70 superintendents that voted against it, how many of them were from big 3A schools and how many of the 73 that voted for it were from small schools. 143 of the 182 superintendents voted and you would think that the majority vote would prevail. If there are two many schools in 4A and 5A then splitting 3A would help with that problem. You could split 3A raise the top number in 3A and 4A and it would help balance out the number of schools in those classes. I know there is a lot more that goes into the decision making than that but it sure is unfair to 3A the way it is done know.There isnt 182 Superintendents is there? districts like Ft worth and Dallas have just one super for each district but not each school right?
I would be interested to see how many super's didnt vote

[Leopard4Life]

This falls in line with my belief they are going to stretch out 3A this year on the top side and basically force 3A to be split into divisions.

Any estimate on what you think the top of 3A will be?

[scrub c]

This falls in line with my belief they are going to stretch out 3A this year on the top side and basically force 3A to be split into divisions.

there are two divisions now....

[Txbroadcaster]

there are two divisions now....

no in the way it is done in 2A and below

[YTBulldogs]

there are two divisions now.... playoffs only currently. You mean regular season txb?

[SHSBulldog00]

Any estimate on what you think the top of 3A will be?

Without all numbers in it is hard to tell. Based on the new school's opening and several school's turning in large numbers; if the number goes up it could move between 999-1,020.

Won't know for sure until we get more data.

[YTBulldogs]

Without all numbers in it is hard to tell. Based on the new school's opening and several school's turning in large numbers; if the number goes up it could move between 999-1,020.

Won't know for sure until we get more data.

Wow, 430-1020. Now that's fair.

[Txbroadcaster]

playoffs only currently. You mean regular season txb?

yes...I think they will stretch it out this time and next realignment it will basically be the only logical step

[Txbroadcaster]

Wow, 430-1020. Now that's fair.


exactly what I think they want..show the numbers stretch is to much and the Supts will have no other move but to approve it

[DavidWooderson]

I think by looking at this list, I'm sure we can figure out at least 32 of the 70something that voted for or against.

Last number is the difference between the largest school and smallest school

1
Pampa 972
Dalhart 489
483

2
Cooper 808
Shallowater 433
375

3
Fabiens 726
Anthony 227
449

4
Andrews 878
Greenwood 517
361

5
Big Spring 974
Sweetwater 598
376

6
Burkburnett 869
Bowie 432
437

7
Mineral Wells 961
Bridgeport 619
342

8
Alvarado 974
Hillsboro 440
534

9
Gainesville 641
Pilot Point 441
200

10
Celina 558
Van Alstyne 439
119

11
Lovejoy 946
Farmersville 438
508

12
F.W. Polytech 948
Dal Madison 773
175

13
Mabank 966
Kemp 500
466

14
Lindale 987
Rains 481
506

15
Paris N. Lamar 898
Mt. Vernon 433
465

16
Henderson 879
Longview Spring Hill 524
355

17
Chapel Hill 870
Rusk 560
310

18
Jasper 770
Kirbyville 432
338

19
Gatesville 814
Lorena 481
333

20
Palestine 825
Groesbeck 449
376

21
Silsbee 853
Hamshire-Fannett 527
326

22
Huffman Hargrave 924
Coldspring-Oakhurst 503
421

23
Navasota 801
Caldwell 513
288

24
Stafford 899
Brookshire Royal 532
367

25
Lampasas 987
Salado 467
520

26
Fredericksburg 968
Geronimo Navarro 477
491

27
Somerset 932
Lytle 495
437

28
Pleasanton 946
Yoakum 448
498

29
West Columbia 875
Palacios 449
426

30
Rocport-Fulton 981
Goliad 434
547

31
C.C. Miller 986
Lyford 446
540

32
Rio Grande City 950
Progresso 509
441

[Txbroadcaster]

I think by looking at this list, I'm sure we can figure out at least 32 of the 70something that voted for or against.

Last number is the difference between the largest school and smallest school

1
Pampa 972
Dalhart 489
483

2
Cooper 808
Shallowater 433
375

3
Fabiens 726
Anthony 227
449

4
Andrews 878
Greenwood 517
361

5
Big Spring 974
Sweetwater 598
376

6
Burkburnett 869
Bowie 432
437

7
Mineral Wells 961
Bridgeport 619
342

8
Alvarado 974
Hillsboro 440
534

9
Gainesville 641
Pilot Point 441
200

10
Celina 558
Van Alstyne 439
119

11
Lovejoy 946
Farmersville 438
508

12
F.W. Polytech 948
Dal Madison 773
175

13
Mabank 966
Kemp 500
466

14
Lindale 987
Rains 481
506

15
Paris N. Lamar 898
Mt. Vernon 433
465

16
Henderson 879
Longview Spring Hill 524
355

17
Chapel Hill 870
Rusk 560
310

18
Jasper 770
Kirbyville 432
338

19
Gatesville 814
Lorena 481
333

20
Palestine 825
Groesbeck 449
376

21
Silsbee 853
Hamshire-Fannett 527
326

22
Huffman Hargrave 924
Coldspring-Oakhurst 503
421

23
Navasota 801
Caldwell 513
288

24
Stafford 899
Brookshire Royal 532
367

25
Lampasas 987
Salado 467
520

26
Fredericksburg 968
Geronimo Navarro 477
491

27
Somerset 932
Lytle 495
437

28
Pleasanton 946
Yoakum 448
498

29
West Columbia 875
Palacios 449
426

30
Rocport-Fulton 981
Goliad 434
547

31
C.C. Miller 986
Lyford 446
540

32
Rio Grande City 950
Progresso 509
441

So u think big schools voted agianst it?

[Phil C]

California here we come. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ1ji6tdU5M

[Old Tiger]

The 3a average difference right now between largest and smallest schools is 400.3125 students

[SHSBulldog00]

I heard rumors that this team may be coming back to 3A

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/143/hidalgoflag.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/hidalgoflag.jpg/)

[Manso/V8]

Wow, 430-1020. Now that's fair.

Has anyone done any kind of analysis on how enrollment impacts performance in the regular season and the playoffs?
Obviously, a higher enrollment gives a team more athletes to choose from, but is it really an overwhelming factor in how a team performs? There are a lot of other factors in program success. Good 2A teams routinely beat 3A schools, and 3A teams compete well against a lot of 4A teams in pre-district games. Some of the top ranked 3A teams are definately going in to the Div. 2 bracket.

[SHSBulldog00]

Just read this on www.smoaky.com

Just found out last night they voted down to make a 3A div 1 and 3A div 2. They will keep it where one big school and two small schools will go to they playoffs.

[JustAFan]

You know, we hear about the discrepancy between the top and bottom of 3A every realignment. There will always be a significant difference, that is just the way of making a dividing line between the conferences. I am not sure what the bottom of 5A is, but I see on UIL's website that last realignment you had a lot of schools in the 2100 range and then you had Plano East with 6171. Not only is that 4000 more students, but it is a ratio of 2.94:1. So 3A is not the only one with the discrepancy between top and bottom.

[MGAR]

Has anyone done any kind of analysis on how enrollment impacts performance in the regular season and the playoffs?
Obviously, a higher enrollment gives a team more athletes to choose from, but is it really an overwhelming factor in how a team performs? There are a lot of other factors in program success. Good 2A teams routinely beat 3A schools, and 3A teams compete well against a lot of 4A teams in pre-district games. Some of the top ranked 3A teams are definately going in to the Div. 2 bracket.

Tatum has played for the state title in 3A twice. In 1996 they lost to a much bigger Sealy school and in 2005 they won it all as one of the smallest 3As...

[oleonetime2]

Just read this on www.smoaky.com

Just found out last night they voted down to make a 3A div 1 and 3A div 2. They will keep it where one big school and two small schools will go to they playoffs.

Do they ever think about the kids and coaches that spend so much time preparing for the year and getting into the playoffs. It is just not fair that 3A doesn't get equal representation in the playoffs as the other classifications.

[oleonetime2]

It is going to be like that in the top classification though. I understand what you are saying but as a whole the biggest difference in in 3A.

[JustAFan]

It is going to be like that in the top classification though. I understand what you are saying but as a whole the biggest difference in in 3A.
How is that? The ratio between the biggest and smallest 5A is higher than in 3A. There is almost a 3:1 ratio in 5A. If the logic of the argument is that a school with 979 students has a larger pool of talent than a school with 424 students, then how does that logic not work with the numbers in 5A also?

Don't get me wrong, I think that it is not right that 1A and 2A have 2 divisions all year, 4A and 5A send 4 teams (2 per division) to the playoffs, and 3A is stuck with a large spread (by ratio) but only 3 reps, but saying that the spread makes a bigger difference in 3A than 5A does not make sense mathematically or logically.

[Farmersfan]

I think by looking at this list, I'm sure we can figure out at least 32 of the 70something that voted for or against.

Last number is the difference between the largest school and smallest school

1
Pampa 972
Dalhart 489
483

2
Cooper 808
Shallowater 433
375

3
Fabiens 726
Anthony 227
449

4
Andrews 878
Greenwood 517
361

5
Big Spring 974
Sweetwater 598
376




These numbers are snapshot numbers from 3 years ago. The REAL numbers would be much different. Example: Prosper currently at 1257 vs Farmersville currently at close to 435. That's a 822 student difference.
Lovejoy is at 1104 and Princeton is at 887.

[Leopard4Life]

These numbers are snapshot numbers from 3 years ago. The REAL numbers would be much different. Example: Prosper currently at 1257 vs Farmersville currently at close to 435. That's a 822 student difference.
Lovejoy is at 1104 and Princeton is at 887.

Don't forget Lone Star listed between 820-860 (never saw an official number)

[SHSBulldog00]

Don't forget Lone Star listed between 820-860 (never saw an official number)

Frisco Lone Star 825