Coaches

[Bosqueville]

It amazes me that the same people that thought the world of a coaching staff last year are now complaining and bad mouthing the same staff. Oh what a difference a year makes... :mad:

[ccmom]

It amazes me that the same people that thought the world of a coaching staff last year are now complaining and bad mouthing the same staff. Oh what a difference a year makes... :mad:

Sounds typical...

[BEAST]

It amazes me that the same people that thought the world of a coaching staff last year are now complaining and bad mouthing the same staff. Oh what a difference a year makes... :mad:


These, my friend are called fair weather fans. Typically they never touched the football field in playing capacity yet they know more than God. I dont care how damn good the chef is, without good groceries, you cant make much.




BEAST

[Old Tiger]

These, my friend are called fair weather fans. Typically they never touched the football field in playing capacity yet they know more than God. I dont care how damn good the chef is, without good groceries, you cant make much.




BEASTGordon Ramsay laughs in your general direction

[Trench Warrior]

Wow sounds like most of the Bandera fans.

[Trench Warrior]

You know the real problem is that the majority of people don't understand that most towns ride the wave of their athletes. Some years you have them some you don't, especially at the 3a level and lower. Not everyone has a certain type of industry or reason to continually bring new families into their school district. The problem is that hardly anyone is willing to ride those waves. They think, "Oh that coach should be able to dominate with whichever kids they get," and unfortunately that is not the case. And those same loud, uninformed parents, and school boards for that matter, will then get rid of a good coach who is doing all the right things. I will never be the one to blame it all on the kids, and I know that coaches get into the profession knowing the risks, but there are two parts to this equation, the coaches and the athletes, and they won't work apart from eachother. I just wish more people would see that.

[Trashman]

:doh:
You know the real problem is that the majority of people don't understand that most towns ride the wave of their athletes. Some years you have them some you don't, especially at the 3a level and lower. Not everyone has a certain type of industry or reason to continually bring new families into their school district. The problem is that hardly anyone is willing to ride those waves. They think, "Oh that coach should be able to dominate with whichever kids they get," and unfortunately that is not the case. And those same loud, uninformed parents, and school boards for that matter, will then get rid of a good coach who is doing all the right things. I will never be the one to blame it all on the kids, and I know that coaches get into the profession knowing the risks, but there are two parts to this equation, the coaches and the athletes, and they won't work apart from each other. I just wish more people would see that.

Every parent thinks their 3rd string kid is being discriminated against and would be starting if there were a coaching change.:doh:

[Ernest T Bass]

Victory has a thousand fathers. Defeat is a bastard.

[mwynn05]

You havent been around very long if you dont realize that someone is going to complain about every decision made...

[greendawg84]

It is as it has always been , not X's and O's , you got to have some Jimmy and Joe's that can play.

Small town politics can also be a factor.

[jason]

which brings back the question - as a coach would you rather have a team of kids with a lot of heart who always try their best - or a team full of gifted athletes who know then can play at 70% and still beat the crap out of most teams they play??

[bobcat1]

which brings back the question - as a coach would you rather have a team of kids with a lot of heart who always try their best - or a team full of gifted athletes who know then can play at 70% and still beat the crap out of most teams they play??I'll take heart.

[Super_R]

which brings back the question - as a coach would you rather have a team of kids with a lot of heart who always try their best - or a team full of gifted athletes who know then can play at 70% and still beat the crap out of most teams they play??

It takes a little of both. The Talented get inspired more every game by the kids with tons of Heart...and by Dec 23rd they are all working as hard as they can.

[garciap77]

:iagree:
I'll take heart.:iagree:

[Old LB]

which brings back the question - as a coach would you rather have a team of kids with a lot of heart who always try their best - or a team full of gifted athletes who know then can play at 70% and still beat the crap out of most teams they play??

Give me the talent, as long as they don't have foul attitudes to boot! :)

[BwdLion73]

I'll take heart.

:eek::eek:

[jason]

even if heart added up to multiple 2-8 seasons and you getting run out of town ??

[pirate4state]

You know the real problem is that the majority of people don't understand that most towns ride the wave of their athletes. Some years you have them some you don't, especially at the 3a level and lower. Not everyone has a certain type of industry or reason to continually bring new families into their school district. The problem is that hardly anyone is willing to ride those waves. They think, "Oh that coach should be able to dominate with whichever kids they get," and unfortunately that is not the case. And those same loud, uninformed parents, and school boards for that matter, will then get rid of a good coach who is doing all the right things. I will never be the one to blame it all on the kids, and I know that coaches get into the profession knowing the risks, but there are two parts to this equation, the coaches and the athletes, and they won't work apart from eachother. I just wish more people would see that.

If you have a group of kids that are all heart, but have little to no talent -- what then? Who do you blame? I know who the parents will blame because they won't accept that little Johnny sucks. Just saying....

I see all the hard work coaches put in from July - November/December so it really bothers me when I hear "C'mon coach {fill in the blank with specified play}" on those Friday nights. I will freely admit that it irks me to no end when a play is not called in fast enough :devil: and am also fully aware that there is no way in hell I could do it, but that's not important! HaHa

Just attend your games and show everyone the support and try to understand that these are hormonal teenagers playing the game!!

[LHHS_Mom]

I always figured coaches were there to inspire and electrify. I know that there are those days when they all have a need for a bar of soap in their mouthes, yet it baffles me when grown men will belittle players when they are injured. Does that make the player any tougher if he is hurt? Is he supposed to play through the pain no matter the degree?

Coaches are supposed to be the mature adults and set the example.

This year has really opened my eyes.

:1popcorn::ack!:

[Ernest T Bass]

I'll take heart.

That's cute.

[eagles_victory]

That's cute. x2 lol

[BaseballUmp]

Give me the talent. Heart doesn't help you throw the ball 50 yards down the field or jump another 6 inches higher on a fade to the corner of the endzone

[Trench Warrior]

LHHS Mom, the problem is that there are too many definitions for inspiring. What you think is inspiring and what I think may be too different things. If I think a kid needs to have someone get a little tough with him to get him going, and you think that I should rub some sugar on him, who is right. No matter who is right, I promise that I cannot go to the school board and say that the parents are being too soft on their kids. Again, I understand that coaches go into it knowing the game, but it doesn't always make it right. Parents want their kids to be apart of the program, but some want there kids to have different rules or be handled differently than what the program dictates for the whole. If you don't like a coach because on a whole his program stinks, OK, but if you don't like a coach because he chose not to, " It's ok Johnny for you not to do what you have been coached to do, we will get em next time," then thats what I have a problem with. As a whole we have a mentality of the, everyone is a winner and it's ok to be average, and that's not the real world. This is just a different point of view, not a person attack on you Mom, I hope it didn't come off like that.

[Old Tiger]

Give me talent with good coaching staff over great coaching staff with team full of heart

[bobcat1]

That's cute.


x2 lol


even if heart added up to multiple 2-8 seasons and you getting run out of town ?? Never had a 2-8 season with any of my kids teams. I guess too I played with a lot of really talented guys who didn't seem to thrive on it like I did. I sure as heck wasn't the most talented but I loved the game.

Maybe I need to explain my thinking. I coached kids before that had tons of talent but hated contact and would quit you. 2 brothers come to mind. One worked his tail off and had a little talent but not as much as his younger brother. The younger brother was probably one of the most gifted athletes I ever coached. But he would sull up and lay it down. You couldn't make the older brother quit trying. Guess which one walked on at Tech and started his senior year?

Now I agree to win you need talent but I don't think you can with with out heart. The talented kids can be game changers but only if they want to.

That is my opininon and I am sure you real coaches differ. I guess the big difference in our opinions is you want the kids that have both. I would too. That is rare in high school football. Those that have both usually move on to the next levels.

In your coaching experiences have you had an extremely talented kid that quit you when it got tough?

[LHHS_Mom]

LHHS Mom, the problem is that there are too many definitions for inspiring. What you think is inspiring and what I think may be too different things. If I think a kid needs to have someone get a little tough with him to get him going, and you think that I should rub some sugar on him, who is right. No matter who is right, I promise that I cannot go to the school board and say that the parents are being too soft on their kids. Again, I understand that coaches go into it knowing the game, but it doesn't always make it right. Parents want their kids to be apart of the program, but some want there kids to have different rules or be handled differently than what the program dictates for the whole. If you don't like a coach because on a whole his program stinks, OK, but if you don't like a coach because he chose not to, " It's ok Johnny for you not to do what you have been coached to do, we will get em next time," then thats what I have a problem with. As a whole we have a mentality of the, everyone is a winner and it's ok to be average, and that's not the real world. This is just a different point of view, not a person attack on you Mom, I hope it didn't come off like that.


I completely understand what you are saying... The momentary frustration I experienced is that my son saw a physician. He was told no sports for two weeks unless the pain goes away. Perhaps it is a simple strain or something a little more severe, but upon return the the school he is treated like the outcast. Coaches did not look at him because they are sergeant ants under the head coach.

I do not expect him to be treated differently, but when there is a potential medical issue involved why is it necessary to belittle a player? That is what has me puzzled. :eek:

[Ernest T Bass]

Bobcat, no, I haven't. Talented kids know they're talented and enjoy dominating others. Ive had some get their feelings hurt and quit, but never quit b/c the "going to tough". Maybe that's the difference between young kids and teenagers.
LHHS, when you take your kid to the doc, he's going to sit him for 2 weeks, regardless of the injury or lack there of. That's what they always do. That's why most schools have a trainer. Trainer's job is to keep kids healthy, not win football games. They're trained in sports medicine. If there's a serious injury, they'll send him to the dr. If not, they'll treat the injury and allow him to continue practicing. If he needs to sit, they'll sit him. Did your son see the trainer? If not, I understand why the coaches are upset. I guarantee he was told to see the trainer if he informed the coaches of any type of injury.

[LHHS_Mom]

Ernest... yes he did see the trainer. He even went to see them during his lunch periods.

[Rocket]

Talent without Good Coaching doesn't succeed. Phil Jackson is one coach that knew how to coach great talent, bad attitudes, and win.

[NastySlot]

I completely understand what you are saying... The momentary frustration I experienced is that my son saw a physician. He was told no sports for two weeks unless the pain goes away. Perhaps it is a simple strain or something a little more severe, but upon return the the school he is treated like the outcast. Coaches did not look at him because they are sergeant ants under the head coach.

I do not expect him to be treated differently, but when there is a potential medical issue involved why is it necessary to belittle a player? That is what has me puzzled. :eek:


just wondering not questioning your son's situation...........but do you all have a Trainer (not a coach)? if so did he recomend going to the doctor? When you go to the doctor the standard will always be sit two weeks...........also he said as long has you have pain.


sorry....i missed previous answer to my questions...went back read all.



sometimes the mentality of football coaches is there is a difference between pain and injury......injury keeps you out...pain sometimes must play with.

I really hope ya'lls situation gets better.......Good Luck.

[garciap77]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/rocket20.jpg

Cool Name Tag!!!!!

[OldNavy]

Talent without Good Coaching doesn't succeed. Phil Jackson is one coach that knew how to coach great talent, bad attitudes, and win.
OMG, I agree with Rocket! I played a long time ago in Celina when they had never had a district championship or even a winning season in 11 man football. There was nothing wrong with the heart of the kids or their talent. We got a coach that was able to get buy in from the kids, administration and community and he was able to bring the talent out of those kids. Many of those kids did not konw they had any talent until he coached it out of them. Some knew they had talent but didn't konw what to do with it or didn't have the "TEAM" to support them. Coaching makes all the difference and over the last 50 years Celina has had the most wins of any team in Texas. I firmly believe is it due to great and consistent coaching, a supportive administration and community. I think there is talent and heart in most schools, they just need good coaches and support to get it out IMHO.

[Ernest T Bass]

Ernest... yes he did see the trainer. He even went to see them during his lunch periods.

And what did he tell him to do?

[LHHS_Mom]

And what did he tell him to do?

Grab a bag of ice.

[bobcat1]

Bobcat, no, I haven't. Talented kids know they're talented and enjoy dominating others. Ive had some get their feelings hurt and quit, but never quit b/c the "going to tough". Maybe that's the difference between young kids and teenagers.
You have a point. By the time they get to varsity most of the time the kids that didn't have the fortitude don't play anyway. Most high school boys don't want to seem soft but some are. Talented kids at the high school level should have toughened up by then. If not blood alley will make or break them. If would have had more talent I would have been dangerous. LOL Talented kids should want to dominate and I understand that some get their little feelers hurt. That is what I am referring to though. You can't make a kid with heart quit but you can a kid with talent when his little feelers are out.

[Ernest T Bass]

Grab a bag of ice.


Then it was probably not a real injury. The doc will sit him for 2 weeks for a hangnail. That's why he's being chastized. I wouldn't expect him to be put in any important roles for the football team anytime soon.

[LHHS_Mom]

Then it was probably not a real injury. The doc will sit him for 2 weeks for a hangnail. That's why he's being chastized. I wouldn't expect him to be put in any important roles for the football team anytime soon.

A real injury consists of only broken bones? If there is a muscle pull/tear, is that not an injury?
Can you play football with such an injury? Common sense is key unless there is a need to blatant continue more injury. That is not necessary when when there are dozens of boys on the team.

I am not concerned about his role or lack there of. He has the passion and the drive. :)

[Ernest T Bass]

A real injury consists of only broken bones? If there is a muscle pull/tear, is that not an injury?
Can you play football with such an injury? Common sense is key unless there is a need to blatant continue more injury. That is not necessary when when there are dozens of boys on the team.

I am not concerned about his role or lack there of. He has the passion and the drive. :)

Athletic trainers are educated and knowledgable enough to know when there's need for concern. Like I said, their job is health, not winning. They're there for the kids. If there is reason to suspect a real injury, they will sit the kid or send him to a doctor. I repeat, that is their job. It's good that you're not concerned with his role, though. There's an excellent chance that he won't have much of one.

[LHHS_Mom]

athletic trainers are educated and knowledgable enough to know when there's need for concern. Like i said, their job is health, not winning. They're there for the kids. If there is reason to suspect a real injury, they will sit the kid or send him to a doctor. I repeat, that is their job. It's good that you're not concerned with his role, though. There's an excellent chance that he won't have much of one.

lol :d

[poisoned10]

A real injury consists of only broken bones? If there is a muscle pull/tear, is that not an injury?
Can you play football with such an injury? Common sense is key unless there is a need to blatant continue more injury. That is not necessary when when there are dozens of boys on the team.

I am not concerned about his role or lack there of. He has the passion and the drive. :)

I broke my 3rd metacarpal (sp?) bone in my left hand last year during softball. I sat out 1 game because I had a Dr. appointment and started playing with it the next week.

I'm not saying it was a good idea, but that's how much I love playing sports. Even if it is for some nothing softball league. You never know exactly how long you will have to play and I want to play as much as I can, while I can.

[bobcat1]

A real injury consists of only broken bones? If there is a muscle pull/tear, is that not an injury?
Can you play football with such an injury? Common sense is key unless there is a need to blatant continue more injury. That is not necessary when when there are dozens of boys on the team.

I am not concerned about his role or lack there of. He has the passion and the drive. :)


Athletic trainers are educated and knowledgable enough to know when there's need for concern. Like I said, their job is health, not winning. They're there for the kids. If there is reason to suspect a real injury, they will sit the kid or send him to a doctor. I repeat, that is their job. It's good that you're not concerned with his role, though. There's an excellent chance that he won't have much of one. As bad as ETB's bedside manner is LHHS_mom, he speaks truth. When I was in high school we knew better than to lay down on the turf hurt. We were 3 deep at my position. There wasn't too much step down from number 1 to 3. Those that did get hurt had a hard time getting back on the field after they were back with the team.

[LHHS_Mom]

As bad as ETB's bedside manner is LHHS_mom, he speaks truth. When I was in high school we knew better than to lay down on the turf hurt. We were 3 deep at my position. There wasn't too much step down from number 1 to 3. Those that did get hurt had a hard time getting back on the field after they were back with the team.


I do know exactly what you mean.
:)

[Leopard4Life]

which brings back the question - as a coach would you rather have a team of kids with a lot of heart who always try their best - or a team full of gifted athletes who know then can play at 70% and still beat the crap out of most teams they play??

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Herb Brooks, Gold Medal winning U.S.A Hockey Coach 1980 Olympics



I'll take Hard Work and Heart.

[Ernest T Bass]

As bad as ETB's bedside manner is LHHS_mom, he speaks truth. When I was in high school we knew better than to lay down on the turf hurt. We were 3 deep at my position. There wasn't too much step down from number 1 to 3. Those that did get hurt had a hard time getting back on the field after they were back with the team.

Going above the trainer's head when he has cleared you implies that you want to be injured. Like I said, the trainer's job is to take care of the kids, get them healthy, and pull them out when they need to be out. Nothing wrong with being injured. It's part of the game. But when the trainer tells you that you can play, and you decide to get a second opinion, that tells me that you didn't want to play very bad to begin with.

[Sville]

Every parent wants the 10 best kids on the field and their son.

[panfan]

Going above the trainer's head when he has cleared you implies that you want to be injured. Like I said, the trainer's job is to take care of the kids, get them healthy, and pull them out when they need to be out. Nothing wrong with being injured. It's part of the game. But when the trainer tells you that you can play, and you decide to get a second opinion, that tells me that you didn't want to play very bad to begin with.

So you are saying the trainer is more educated and knowledgeble than an orthopedist, GP, or PT? HMMMM. Last time I looked, credentials for these were far and above that of a trainer at a high school level. It maybe their job, and yes they are educated, but it is a parents job as well to assess the condition of their kid, make some informed educated decisions of their own (yes including a second opinion). If doc says - well could be a strain or pull - sit out two weeks, then I'm opting for an aggresive ice and rehab with the trainer, but if the doc comes back and says it is something more serious that could result in a longer term injury, then the kid should sit without rammifications from trainer and coach.

My boy went to trainer last year with very swollen thumb, trainer - ice it. we did, Kept bothering him, trainer - ice it. Finally went and got it x-rayed. Fractured. Then all the sudden trainer finds out he went to doc - wants a note that nothing is wrong. Boy said screw this, we taped the hell out of it and he played every game with a fracture. You can't automatically judge a book by its cover and the trainer aint always right.

[Ernest T Bass]

So you are saying the trainer is more educated and knowledgeble than an orthopedist, GP, or PT? HMMMM. Last time I looked, credentials for these were far and above that of a trainer at a high school level. It maybe their job, and yes they are educated, but it is a parents job as well to assess the condition of their kid, make some informed educated decisions of their own (yes including a second opinion). If doc says - well could be a strain or pull - sit out two weeks, then I'm opting for an aggresive ice and rehab with the trainer, but if the doc comes back and says it is something more serious that could result in a longer term injury, then the kid should sit without rammifications from trainer and coach.

My boy went to trainer last year with very swollen thumb, trainer - ice it. we did, Kept bothering him, trainer - ice it. Finally went and got it x-rayed. Fractured. Then all the sudden trainer finds out he went to doc - wants a note that nothing is wrong. Boy said screw this, we taped the hell out of it and he played every game with a fracture. You can't automatically judge a book by its cover and the trainer aint always right.

No, but a doc is gonna sit you for 2 weeks regardless of injury or lack there of. And yes, we all have anecdotal evidence for everything. I can you a few people who smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 95, but it's still not a good idea. Bottom line is, if you want to play and you CAN play, let the trainer do his job and stay away from Dr. 2 Weeks.

[panfan]

No, but a doc is gonna sit you for 2 weeks regardless of injury or lack there of. And yes, we all have anecdotal evidence for everything. I can you a few people who smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 95, but it's still not a good idea. Bottom line is, if you want to play and you CAN play, let the trainer do his job and stay away from Dr. 2 Weeks.

You sir have more faith in the trainers than I. Agree with last statement to some degree, If you want to play and can play, why are you seeing the trainer to begin with. Ice is free at home as well.

[Ernest T Bass]

You sir have more faith in the trainers than I. Agree with last statement to some degree, If you want to play and can play, why are you seeing the trainer to begin with. Ice is free at home as well.

Trainers do MUCH more than apply ice. They diagnose, treat, and rehab injuries. I, for one, don't play around. If a kid gets bruised up, I send him to the trainer. If it's bad, he'll send him to the doc. If not, he'll have him back to 100% a helluva lot quicker than he would be on his own. Maybe you've just been around crappy trainers.

[panfan]

ETB- you are missing the point here. I fully understand what trainers do, and yes there are good ones and crappy ones, and I have had the pleasure and displeasure of both for myself and my kids. You chastized LHHS mom for getting a second opinion and then generalized some other rubbish about kid probably isn't as injured or hurt cause the trainer said so and the second opinion thing was taboo. I say BS. The trainer is not always right, a second opinion is a good option and the kid shouldn't be chastized because of it. I bet my bottom dollar if studly mcStudly goes off to get second opinion after trainer says its just a strain, and coach and trainer find out about it, the rammifications for studly are not near as great for him/her as they would be for 2nd or 3rd string right tackle.

[OldNavy]

ETB- you are missing the point here. I fully understand what trainers do, and yes there are good ones and crappy ones, and I have had the pleasure and displeasure of both for myself and my kids. You chastized LHHS mom for getting a second opinion and then generalized some other rubbish about kid probably isn't as injured or hurt cause the trainer said so and the second opinion thing was taboo. I say BS. The trainer is not always right, a second opinion is a good option and the kid shouldn't be chastized because of it. I bet my bottom dollar if studly mcStudly goes off to get second opinion after trainer says its just a strain, and coach and trainer find out about it, the rammifications for studly are not near as great for him/her as they would be for 2nd or 3rd string right tackle.

I thought coaches put those players in a dark shed and made them stand around for a couple of hours.:eek:

[panfan]

I thought coaches put those players in a dark shed and made them stand around for a couple of hours.:eek:
Clever! :clap:

[ccmom]

I thought coaches put those players in a dark shed and made them stand around for a couple of hours.:eek: Only the ones with fat girlfriends!

[OldNavy]

Only the ones with fat girlfriends!
:fnypost: