running teams vs passing teams...

[trojandad]

of course we would all prefer the perfect mix of running and passing on a team, but when a team rolls into your town that is a primarily passing team, do you, as a fan, have a different attitude...outlook....demeanor....about them as a passing team than when an all rushing team comes rolling into town??

i know when a passing team comes to town i think "we are gonna have to get nimble and quick" whereas an all running team comes to town my first thought is "lets see who gets their butts kicked tonight"...

maybe its just me that thinks that way....

[Bambam]

LOL.......I hate all passing teams. My son cant pad his stats with an all passing team, Like he is going to do with Cold Springs! : ) lol.

Seriously, this spread offense is fun to watch but I would rather watch a team shove down your throat then bust a play action on your butt. ya know? You guys have the personnel that you could bust em in the mouth then drop that quick 10 yard pass to your TE....thats why CS offense is so lethal!

[Old Tiger]

depends on the talent....



It was fun watching LH when they were winning state titles with their slot T
It was fun watching SLC on their state titles



It is fun watching Johnathan Gray
It is fun watching any QB sling it all over the place



I guess I'm indifferent on this subject.

[trojandad]

depends on the talent....



It was fun watching LH when they were winning state titles with their slot T
It was fun watching SLC on their state titles



It is fun watching Johnathan Gray
It is fun watching any QB sling it all over the place



I guess I'm indifferent on this subject.

in the 60's (i think i was maybe 8) cleveland had a team that ended up tied for 1st in our district (in the day when only the 1st place team went to the playoffs) so it wasnt like they were a slouch....anyway, in predistrict bridge city came to town, with steve worster at rb...the score was like 70-0 just after halftime....worster would run the ball, our guys would jump on his back, and worster, and that line, would just go until they wanted to stop (it seemed)....i think back on it and i think "those were MEN that rolled into town that night".....i much later saw lake travis playing dayton when gilbert only let the ball touch the ground 2 times all night, thought i saw a great ball team, but sure not the men that rolled in with bridge city....

thers just something about that running game that works......

[trojandad]

LOL.......I hate all passing teams. My son cant pad his stats with an all passing team, Like he is going to do with Cold Springs! : ) lol.

Seriously, this spread offense is fun to watch but I would rather watch a team shove down your throat then bust a play action on your butt. ya know? You guys have the personnel that you could bust em in the mouth then drop that quick 10 yard pass to your TE....thats why CS offense is so lethal!

yea, but momma still cheers, huh??? :cheerl:

[Old Tiger]

in the 60's (i think i was maybe 8) cleveland had a team that ended up tied for 1st in our district (in the day when only the 1st place team went to the playoffs) so it wasnt like they were a slouch....anyway, in predistrict bridge city came to town, with steve worster at rb...the score was like 70-0 just after halftime....worster would run the ball, our guys would jump on his back, and worster, and that line, would just go until they wanted to stop (it seemed)....i think back on it and i think "those were MEN that rolled into town that night".....i much later saw lake travis playing dayton when gilbert only let the ball touch the ground 2 times all night, thought i saw a great ball team, but sure not the men that rolled in with bridge city....

thers just something about that running game that works......In junior high we were playing Hearne and had to go to their place....we lined up against them for the first offensive play and just about all of their players appeared to have beards. They looked like men vs us.

[Bambam]

yea, but momma still cheers, huh??? :cheerl:

LOL.........Yes sir she does! Like a 15 year old cheerleader on speed!

[trojandad]

LOL.........Yes sir she does! Like a 15 year old cheerleader on speed!

too dang funny....when my wife would watch our oldest play, hed hit someone (he played def end) and shed yell, then sit down and say "do you think he got hurt?!?!?"...and repeat that scenario EVERY play....

[Bambam]

LOL........my wife has gotten me into confrentations because she would yell " stay down, YEAHHHH" and opposing parents thought that was just down right ugly. That was in peewee football years ago. I do like the fact that I dont have to explain the entire game to her! She knows her some football! lol
I told her about coming to the cookout you guys are having. She thought that would be cool to stop by. Will look ya up!

[DavidWooderson]

Personally I can't stand the spread....BUT if your team can run it, it is very effective. HOWEVER if you're a team that runs the spread but can't run it, it makes for a very frustrating and long night of bad football. (Trust me, that's what we have in Pilot Point right now.

[trojandad]

LOL........my wife has gotten me into confrentations because she would yell " stay down, YEAHHHH" and opposing parents thought that was just down right ugly. That was in peewee football years ago. I do like the fact that I dont have to explain the entire game to her! She knows her some football! lol
I told her about coming to the cookout you guys are having. She thought that would be cool to stop by. Will look ya up!

i did a bad job explaining it, if they decide to have the buyers dinner on saturday, we bbq all night on fri night, so the actual eats will be on saturday, but listen, the fair will be going full guns after your game with cleveland on fri night....when the fair comes to town, several of the black churches in town will set up concession areas and sell their bbq...and, oh son!!!...i hurt myself going back for seconds and thirds....plus if you are able to bring your son with you, hell, no doubt, meet a ton of the players at the fair...its the one friday night of the football season that barbay really requires them to let their hair down and be kids....

but you and her would be as welcome as the flowers in may to attend...if me and the wife are there ill sure message you...itll be a great time....

[LionFan72]

A good running team is a special treat, especially today. Spread formation is a quick appeal to the current generation because of the stepped up pace of living, gotta have it now generation. I prefer a balanced attack with a shutdown, smashmouth defense. Haven't really seen one of those here since '65 State team, they were awesome!

[bigwood33]

A good running team is a special treat, especially today. Spread formation is a quick appeal to the current generation because of the stepped up pace of living, gotta have it now generation. I prefer a balanced attack with a shutdown, smashmouth defense. Haven't really seen one of those here since '65 State team, they were awesome!
The '81 team may not have had quite the gaudy defensive stats that the '65 team did (that is some pretty elite company) but they could throw it, run it and they played really good defense too! Mike Kinsey alone was with the price of admission.

[Pendragon13]

A ground and pound running game may seem like the manlier of the two, but you have to remember that an effective spread offense requires speedy recievers with good hands and route running skills, a QB with accuracy and a quick release....and an offensive line that can pick up blitzes. A running game requires one good running back and at least two o-linemen who can pave the way. My point is that running an effective spread is the more difficult of the two..

[trojandad]

A good running team is a special treat, especially today. Spread formation is a quick appeal to the current generation because of the stepped up pace of living, gotta have it now generation. I prefer a balanced attack with a shutdown, smashmouth defense. Haven't really seen one of those here since '65 State team, they were awesome!

we were talking about it the other night, there just arent that many teams that have that running game where if you can stop the run, youve pretty much stopped their team...

and i agree about the defense...cant beat real men on defense....

[trojandad]

A ground and pound running game may seem like the manlier of the two, but you have to remember that an effective spread offense requires speedy recievers with good hands and route running skills, a QB with accuracy and a quick release....and an offensive line that can pick up blitzes. A running game requires one good running back and at least two o-linemen who can pave the way. My point is that running an effective spread is the more difficult of the two..

you may be right as far as difficulty, but i know i never stood on the other sideline, watched a spread offense practicing against my team and thought "im about to get my teeth fed to me"....they may have killed me on the scoreboard, but youd always take home more bruises from that team that was about to feed you your own jock.....

[Sportshack]

The Liberty Hill offenses from 2006 thru 2008 were something to behold. They just pounded the opposing defenses and it was true attrition football. A team had to be really, really tough to hang with those squads. Very talented linemen.

[hookandladder]

A ground and pound running game may seem like the manlier of the two, but you have to remember that an effective spread offense requires speedy recievers with good hands and route running skills, a QB with accuracy and a quick release....and an offensive line that can pick up blitzes. A running game requires one good running back and at least two o-linemen who can pave the way. My point is that running an effective spread is the more difficult of the two..

It has not worked out that way for us this year, we are trying to go from the spread to the running game. Down right ugly , getting killed. Our OL is big and athletic but for some reason we cannot run the ball, our RB's are more of the skatback type also which may not help either.

[Eagle 1]

Ancient wishbone offense still effective at Goldthwaite HS

Wishbone has paid off for Proffitt for over 2 decades
By Evan Ren
rene@reporternews.com 325-676-6711
While speaking to Goldthwaite football coach Gary Proffitt, one may wonder if the man is equipped with an adrenaline gland. His emotions seldom change, even in situations where one could expect the highest of highs or the lowest of lows.
Proffitt's voice literally had the same low-key pitch while speaking with the Reporter-News following a loss to Mart last year in the Class-1A state championship game that it did following a win over Canadian in the title game the year before.
True to his personality, Proffitt's offense never changes either.
In fact, for more than two decades, the 53-year-old has stuck with an attack that is now on football's endangered species list — the near-archaic and seldom-seen wishbone.
"It's just a more physical type of game in the trenches," said Proffitt, who enters this week with a 234-80-3 coaching record, with five title game appearances and championships in 1993, 1994 and 2009. "It's not something different for us since we've been doing it for so long. But it's a lot different from what most people see from week to week."
So different in fact, that the Eagles seldom see a defense from the opposition that they have seen on film.
Almost invariably, those teams that face Goldthwaite must abandon their defensive base, which is often better-suited to stop a modern spread attack.
"We usually spend the first quarter, trying to figure out what (the opposition) is doing," assistant coach Jeffrey Head said. "Those people who run a 3-3 stack or a 4-2-5 — we seldom see that.
"In a way that's an advantage to us because it takes them out of their comfort zone."
Not that there haven't been bumps in the road.
Entering last week at 4-1, the Eagles were dumped 41-7 on Friday by a much larger, Class-2A Division I school from Marion (4-1).
Proffit's team was 0-10 in 2001 and 1-9 a year later. He came under fire in 2008 courtesy of a small group of detractors, only to see his contract renewed after the community rallied behind him.
The margin for error, it would seem, is far smaller for coaches who use old-fashioned offenses than for those who have adapted to changing times.
"People think it's boring," Proffitt said. "It's really a mix from community to community as far as what is done. There's always going to be someone who wants things done differently.
"But fortunately, I think the wishbone has been good to us, we've been successful with it, and it's what our kids like doing."
And for the most part, Proffitt's has been one of the most consistent programs in the Big Country for 25 years, despite using one of its oldest playbooks.
Through six games this year, the Eagles (4-2) are averaging roughly 300 rushing yards per game, with five players having rushed for at least 100 yards thus far.
Senior Gary Head (101-622, seven TDs) is at the front of that list, along with quarterback Tyler Horton (63-403, nine TDs).
"What people don't realize about the wishbone is that it's a (symmetrical) offense," Winters coach Stephen Hermesmeyer said. "The way it sits with a fullback and two running backs on each side, it's just as easy for them to run to the strong side as it is to the weak side, so you can't overshift or unbalance your defense.
"Plus, in this day and age, with everyone going to a spread-oriented finesse-style offense, the wishbone still hits you right in the mouth for 60 plays a game and it's a really physical type of game. If your kids are used to playing against spread teams with the quick screens and misdirection, then all of the sudden you're playing someone who lines up and hits you right in the face mask over and over, it's tough to defend."
That much is evident when one examines the Eagles' year-to-year records.
In the last seven seasons, Goldthwaite has won 10 or more games six times, and has posted nine or more wins on 18 occasions since Proffitt took the helm in 1986.
Proffitt inherited the wishbone from former Goldthwaite coach Chan Priest who took a state title with it in 1985. And Proffitt, perhaps due to his unflinching emotions, has never bowed to pressure to alter the attack.
"Coach Profitt and his coaches have been there about 30 years and they've won a ton of football games," Hermesmeyer said. "In that time, they've seen every possible combination and defensive look on multiple occasions.
"So if you try to do something your kids aren't familiar with, you're only creating a disadvantage for your kids because Proffitt has seen it all. He's run that offense for so long and has seen so many different looks, it's like my grandmother baking cookies. When she makes her favorite chocolate chip cookies, she's done it for so long, she doesn't even have to measure anything."

[LionFan72]

Can't argue with the success of the Goldwaithe Eagles and Gary Profitt skills. Great Program.

[Txbroadcaster]

All the talk about running the ball means being tougher, more physical..but the Slot T and the wishbone arent about toughness or being big mean strong O-linemen..they are misdirection angle blocking offenses.

[Dogman_1969]

If you can't run then you will not win. Meaning all the spread teams that have been successful have had some sort of running game. SLC for example had Trey Newton rushing for 1500 yds and another great back before him so they ran the ball as well. Show me a team that throws 95% of their yds you can probably find a team that is about a 500 ball club.

[bigwood33]

It has not worked out that way for us this year, we are trying to go from the spread to the running game. Down right ugly , getting killed. Our OL is big and athletic but for some reason we cannot run the ball, our RB's are more of the skatback type also which may not help either.
Sometimes it is a pretty difficult transition for kids to go from 2 point and pass protection fundamentals to "hand in the dirt and coming off hot". Good luck with the transition.

[trojandad]

The Liberty Hill offenses from 2006 thru 2008 were something to behold. They just pounded the opposing defenses and it was true attrition football. A team had to be really, really tough to hang with those squads. Very talented linemen.

i watched those teams and just knew wed never be that monstrous...

[Txbroadcaster]

Anyone know of a team that runs the old Power I?

[bigwood33]

Not all of the time but we have put it in for certain situations. My son moves to tailback and at 220, he is a pretty good load.

[trojandad]

Anyone know of a team that runs the old Power I?

the coach that was before barbay (i cant remember his name at the moment but he got us to the playoffs only to drop first round) ran the triple i, three men directly behind the qb, and ran it pretty well, especially between the guards where you think itd be the most clogged...his blocking was the trick...

[LH Panther Mom]

All the talk about running the ball means being tougher, more physical..but the Slot T and the wishbone arent about toughness or being big mean strong O-linemen..they are misdirection angle blocking offenses.
Sure, they are misdirection, but if you DON'T have some really good OL dudes, it doesn't make for a good time.


The first thing that runs through my mind when we face a predominately passing team is that the game is going to be LONG. :D

[Eagle 1]

All the talk about running the ball means being tougher, more physical..but the Slot T and the wishbone arent about toughness or being big mean strong O-linemen..they are misdirection angle blocking offenses.

I have Coach Proffitts number and you can call him and tell him that. LOL...

You must not have read the article before you posted.


"It's just a more physical type of game in the trenches," said Proffitt, who enters this week with a 234-80-3 coaching record, with five title game appearances and championships in 1993, 1994 and 2009.

[bigwood33]

Coach Proffitt's a stud!

[house]

balance is king. muscleing down the the field is fun to watch but to win it all, better to not be one dimensional. and need to be good at both. i'm more interested in winning. example carthage/coldspring

[bigwood33]

balance is king. muscleing down the the field is fun to watch but to win it all, better to not be one dimensional. and need to be good at both. i'm more interested in winning. example carthage/coldspring
It's only been about 3 years ago when LH won the 2nd of their back to back championships when they had exactly 0 passing attempts in the championship game...it worked ok for them.
I agree that for most teams, achieving "balance" should be the goal but if a team is outstanding and plays mostly mistake free football, then being efficient is more important than being balanced. Just because the defense knows what is coming, doesn't always mean they can do anything about it. Celina has also made a living playing 1 dimensional football. Maybe not to the extent that LH did/does but it has never been a secret that the Bobcats want to run it 5 times for every pass. They have ridden that formula to 8 championships.

[house]

you are throwing in "mistake free" and "efficient" to the equation. the balance is something influenced by the coaching and allows more flexibility and options. just my opinion that it gives you a better chance. if you know what the other team is going to do 90% of the time, you saying that isn't an advantage?

[trojandad]

you are throwing in "mistake free" and "efficient" to the equation. the balance is something influenced by the coaching and allows more flexibility and options. just my opinion that it gives you a better chance. if you know what the other team is going to do 90% of the time, you saying that isn't an advantage?

normally, yes....but we have seen some schools do only one 100% of the time and run the table...when that team runs all the time, and runs the table, they leave some bruises along the way....

[scrub c]

when a spread team comes to town, we get ready for a long boring night of act like we are gonna snap the ball, then look to the sideline and watch 12 coaches do funny signals and hold up funny looking posters, then they snap the ball and we get ready for the process to start over again...

makes for a really boring game (IMO)

now, when wimberly put it on us several years back... not so boring (and chapel hill, not so boring either)

[raider red 2000]

SCrub, yall had some funny dance moves on the sidelines a few years back. yall were in the I, but still had all sorts of people doing funny gestures.

[BEAST]

when a spread team comes to town, we get ready for a long boring night of act like we are gonna snap the ball, then look to the sideline and watch 12 coaches do funny signals and hold up funny looking posters, then they snap the ball and we get ready for the process to start over again...

makes for a really boring game (IMO)

now, when wimberly put it on us several years back... not so boring (and chapel hill, not so boring either)


The spread of which you speak is called the Check offense. I hate it also. But not all spread teams run the check.




BEAST

[trojandad]

ok, did anyone play against a running team and, before the game, you just knew that before the game was over you were gonna be wearing your jock somewhere around your neck before the night was over? jasper, in the 70s, ran the ball down your throat with almost 300 lb linemen that, if they didnt do damage to you on the play, theyd get you on the bottom of the pile....only hamstring pull i ever had playing football was at the bottom of a pile and some huge jasper lineman said "tackle my man, fool" and clamped down on my hammy with a vice for a hand....i screamed like i needed my diaper changed and left with a pulled hammy....

id sit on the sideline before the game, watch jasper warm up after getting beat up by them since 7th grade, and where nobody could hear me id quietly groan uggggggh....THATS the difference, to me, between the two, passing and running teams...maybe im the only one with those memories...

[vet93]

And...He is a Ballinger native!


Can't argue with the success of the Goldwaithe Eagles and Gary Profitt skills. Great Program.

[Old Tiger]

The Liberty Hill offenses from 2006 thru 2008 were something to behold. They just pounded the opposing defenses and it was true attrition football. A team had to be really, really tough to hang with those squads. Very talented linemen.You should go watch Rogers and see how Walker has that team looking just as good as LH did.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

I personally can't stand "The Spread." It looks more like Flag Football with full pads.

UIL should start a Flag Football league, all of those spread teams can play in that league and bore everyone to death.

[BILLYFRED0000]

A good running team is a special treat, especially today. Spread formation is a quick appeal to the current generation because of the stepped up pace of living, gotta have it now generation. I prefer a balanced attack with a shutdown, smashmouth defense. Haven't really seen one of those here since '65 State team, they were awesome!
Now that is what I'm talkin about. Celina plays that way. Best year we had lately was 05. 802 pf 75 pa and most of that 75 was on the seconds and thirds. Nice thing about Celina tho is if you stack the box watchout. Nathan can sling it. Jacob could Garrett could john clark and nathan tune could.

[warhorsejoe]

It's only been about 3 years ago when LH won the 2nd of their back to back championships when they had exactly 0 passing attempts in the championship game...it worked ok for them.
I agree that for most teams, achieving "balance" should be the goal but if a team is outstanding and plays mostly mistake free football, then being efficient is more important than being balanced. Just because the defense knows what is coming, doesn't always mean they can do anything about it. Celina has also made a living playing 1 dimensional football. Maybe not to the extent that LH did/does but it has never been a secret that the Bobcats want to run it 5 times for every pass. They have ridden that formula to 8 championships.

those are my thoughts as well. well said.

[GrTigers6]

I personally can't stand "The Spread." It looks more like Flag Football with full pads.

UIL should start a Flag Football league, all of those spread teams can play in that league and bore everyone to death.Spread isnt just pass, We run the spread and average 200 yards rushing per game.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

There's also rushing plays in flag football. It's ok, I know you're bored. :)

[LH Panther Mom]

It's only been about 3 years ago when LH won the 2nd of their back to back championships when they had exactly 0 passing attempts in the championship game...it worked ok for them.
I agree that for most teams, achieving "balance" should be the goal but if a team is outstanding and plays mostly mistake free football, then being efficient is more important than being balanced. Just because the defense knows what is coming, doesn't always mean they can do anything about it. Celina has also made a living playing 1 dimensional football. Maybe not to the extent that LH did/does but it has never been a secret that the Bobcats want to run it 5 times for every pass. They have ridden that formula to 8 championships.
Dude...we have balance. We run left, we run right, we run up the middle. And just to make it interesting, sometimes we run up the middle, then right, up the middle and finish off going left! :p

[bigwood33]

Dude...we have balance. We run left, we run right, we run up the middle. And just to make it interesting, sometimes we run up the middle, then right, up the middle and finish off going left! :p
The only "balance" in LH is "balanced" v "unbalanced" alignments! :clap:

[Old Tiger]

Biggest reason LH hasn't been as good is because Walker left

[Ernest T Bass]

I like winning. If you're good at what you do, and you have athletes, you'll win.

[bigwood33]

If you're good at what you do, and you have athletes, you'll win.
Exactly

[gatordaze]

Anyone know of a team that runs the old Power I?

Not as a formation, if you mean a power lead with 2 backs blocking for a 3rd, then that is a staple of Celina's offense. It looks like an inverted wish bone but at the point of attack it is straight up power I with the fullback and right half leading the way for the left half. Gets real fun when you send all 3 to block for the QB.

[Eagle 1]

We run a version of the power I on the goal line sometimes just to pound the ball in.