You can't teach speed..

[XtremeCouture]

Can someone explain this to me? To me, this is as dumb as saying you can't teach strength or you can't teach history, etc. Obviously, doing sprints will make you faster just like working out will make your stronger, studying history will teach you history, etc.

I've heard coaches say this before and honestly I believe they are just repeating "football" talking points. Kind of like people repeat things that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck say without really knowing what they are talking about.

Opinions?

[bigwood33]

Generally agree. You can improve and maximize speed but you can't take a 5.1 to a 4.6 unless the kid grows a bunch. Core strength improvement can slightly improve explosion and improved form can help turn over a little bit but no amount of training can make a mule competitive in a race with a quarter horse.

[BwdLion73]

Sprints never made me faster......made me tired. Stronger, smarter, yes. Faster? I'm not sure about the Limbaugh/Beck reference. Just take it "one game at a time" :wave:

[Pendragon13]

It's true to a degree...in the sense that some people have a higher maximum speed than others.


edit- or you can simply move to east Texas and shave a few tenths off your time.:thumbsup:

[Matthew328]

Agree with bigwood, you can't turn a kid into a burner who is not inclined genetically to be one

[bigwood33]

Thanks Matt...is that a first? :)
I will use my son as an example. Last summer, his best 40 at a camp or combine was 4.67. Since then he has lifted, played football, basketball, ran track and played baseball. In track, he ran the 100, 200, and 4x2 relay. He worked very hard at improving his speed, especially in the spring during track season and he ran very well. When he was running 40's this summer, his best time was 4.62...a whopping .05 improvement! I DO believe that when he gets to college and is working with their strength and conditioning staff and following their nutrition guidelines, he will drop his time to high 4.5's but not much faster than that and that is with INTENSE training.

[Saggy Aggie]

Agree with bigwood, you can't turn a kid into a burner who is not inclined genetically to be one This.

This thread is stupid. If you think an endless number of sprints will make everyone track stars, then you're a moron.

[oldtownag]

You can teach speed. Track coaches make a living doing just that.

[poisoned10]

You can teach speed. Track coaches make a living doing just that.

Track coaches don't "teach" speed. They take their fastest kids and put them in the fastest events and take the kids who can run longer and put them in long distance events and take the kids who can throw a heavy ball and put them in that event, etc. Then, they teach techniques to help maximize their ability to win their event.

[Old Tiger]

I've heard the saying "You can't coach speed." I have never heard the quote "You can't teach speed." It make sense because you literally can't coach it because the kids either have it or do not have it.

[bigwood33]

You can teach speed. Track coaches make a living doing just that.
Wrong, been a track coach and what you do is refine it, maximize it, improve technique.

[Old Tiger]

The best track coach we have on this site is earnest t bass.....lets ask him

[LH Panther Mom]

There was zero amount of coaching or teaching that was going to make me fast...ever.

[bigwood33]

There was zero amount of coaching or teaching that was going to make me fast...ever.
Not with that attitude, for sure! :)

[Ernest T Bass]

I honestly believe that there is a way to turn a 4.8 into a 4.5 under the right circumstances. I just don't know what it is. Kinda like believing in aliens, but you have no proof. There's a great study being conducted on the running of Usain Bolt right now that has determined that his legs move no faster than anyone else when he's running. That pretty much destroys the notion that speed is determined by the rate at which a runner picks his legs up and puts them down.

[crabman]

There was a track coach at A&M back in the late 70's and early 80's. Ted Nelson. The old joke was that he could take a kid who ran a 10.4 hundred meters and with a little bit of coaching he could have him running 10.8 in no time.

[bigwood33]

I honestly believe that there is a way to turn a 4.8 into a 4.5 under the right circumstances. I just don't know what it is. Kinda like believing in aliens, but you have no proof. There's a great study being conducted on the running of Usain Bolt right now that has determined that his legs move no faster than anyone else when he's running. That pretty much destroys the notion that speed is determined by the rate at which a runner picks his legs up and puts them down.
C'mon ETB, you know that you can't study 1 guy and make any kind of accurate determination. His (Bolt's) turnover may not be appreciably faster than many other sprinters but his stride length MUST be taken into account. Speed is a combination of several factors and turnover is only one of them. I DO however, really like your comment about improving speed and aliens..no real proof of either. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[gold_33]

If a guy has elite speed 4.3-4.4 then you cant teach that, they have to be born with it. Kids will get faster with age and as they grow but the elite speed kids for their age group they will usually be above average throughout their life. You may maybe able to trim your time down some by building up your leg muscles but your not gonna take a 4.6 guy and make him run a 4.4 once he's matured. Usually coaching speed is just working on form and the right way to run to help lower their time, therefore you can coach speed just not teach it.

[Ernest T Bass]

I refuse to believe that it's impossible to train someone into taking .5 off their 40 time. I dont know how to do it, I believe that there is a way.

[gold_33]

Maybe .05 but not .5, no way your gonna turn a 5.0 guy into a 4.5. Anyone that figures that out will be a millionaire and have every kid going to the NFL knocking on their door. Even the elite athletes going into the combine that run a 4.5, train for months on end to try to lower their time to a 4.4 and rarely succeed. Possibly going from a 4.51 to a 4.49 but thats only .02 and mostly thats because a coach teaches them to stay low and not raise up to early so they arent really any faster than they were just taught the proper technique.

[Ernest T Bass]

I didn't say that anyone knew how to, I just said that there IS a way to do it. Obviously no one has figured it out yet. But, Jonas Salk proved many people wrong when he discovered a way to cure polio and I think that someone will eventually discover how to coach/teach speed. I think muscle memory will have something to do with it. If you pull someone behind a car, they'll run faster than they ever have in their lives. But if the car is doing the actual pulling, then they'll simply fall down. So, it's their actual legs and muscles doing the work, not the car. I think that there's a way to get the muscles to memorize that function, whatever it may be.

[Old Tiger]

I've read a study where african american runners have an extra muscle in their calf.

























someone had to say it.

[MGAR]

I refuse to believe that it's impossible to train someone into taking .5 off their 40 time. I dont know how to do it, I believe that there is a way.

These guys might know how... They in your neck of the woods as well. Few weeks ago I went and watched them do a typical day.. Was pretty impressive.

http://www.apecgo.com/

[trojandad]

anybody can teach anything....its just a subject most people fail in......

[trojandad]

There was a track coach at A&M back in the late 70's and early 80's. Ted Nelson. The old joke was that he could take a kid who ran a 10.4 hundred meters and with a little bit of coaching he could have him running 10.8 in no time.

like the old aggie joke about ut-a&m playing, halftime gun went off, ut ran to the locker and 3 plays later a&m scored....:cheerl:

[BILLYFRED0000]

like the old aggie joke about ut-a&m playing, halftime gun went off, ut ran to the locker and 3 plays later a&m scored....:cheerl:

I like the old golf joke. 90 percent of all puts hit short will not go in.

The meaning of speed is you cannot turn a tank into a ferrari. You can make a faster tank. but obviously a thundering lineman will never run 4.2. The study of usain bolt also compares other runners and tests under the same conditions. The main theory is that it is not length or quickness but the amount of power applied when the foot hits the ground. Turnover was virtually the same for runners with similar length strides so stride length is a factor but a minor one. Most time is made up or lost in the start. You can teach that. but it is not speed. merely a way to decrease your reaction and starting steps to be more efficient.

[Farmersfan]

I didn't say that anyone knew how to, I just said that there IS a way to do it. Obviously no one has figured it out yet. But, Jonas Salk proved many people wrong when he discovered a way to cure polio and I think that someone will eventually discover how to coach/teach speed. I think muscle memory will have something to do with it. If you pull someone behind a car, they'll run faster than they ever have in their lives. But if the car is doing the actual pulling, then they'll simply fall down. So, it's their actual legs and muscles doing the work, not the car. I think that there's a way to get the muscles to memorize that function, whatever it may be.



And you call yourself a teacher? Might I recommend a refresher course in physics......................

[pirate4state]

I honestly believe that there is a way to turn a 4.8 into a 4.5 under the right circumstances. I just don't know what it is. Kinda like believing in aliens, but you have no proof. :clap: LOL

[Cam]

I think there are techniques that can be taught to shave a tenth or two. For example, my boy ran better in track after taking some advice from a teammate (RB Cam McDaniel - now @ Notre Dame). Cam used to go to all these camps to become a better athlete. A couple of things he taught my boy was to relax the jaw muscles, relax the hands (the index and middle fingers should slightly touch the thumbs when running) Just little things like that....

but OK, you really want to know how to become faster? It's simple: RUN WITH FEAR! A perfect example: Have you ever seen illegal aliens running (and jumping for that matter) from the border patrol? You can't catch em! They are literally runnin' for their lives. Most of the times, the border patrol simply follows them with a chopper until they wear down. Then they call in the vans.
Another good example: Have you ever rustled up a hornets nest in the bushes? I guarantee you jumped out the blocks faster than you ever did at your old high school track meets. And yeah, you probably used bad techniques with flailing arms and such.....but you were movin'!! So, wanna run faster, put the FEAR in ya....

I just reminded myself of my cousin, who's a cop in Sugarland. This is a 42 yr. old guy who qualifies for the Boston Marathon every year. So, endurance is his thing. I asked him once if he had ever failed to catch anyone during a foot chase. He looked at me kinda funny, smiled, and simply said NO....

[icu812]

These guys might know how... They in your neck of the woods as well. Few weeks ago I went and watched them do a typical day.. Was pretty impressive.

http://www.apecgo.com/

Apec does a great job. They know what they are doing over there and I've personally seen them make players a LOT faster. Stronger more flexible muscles and proper form = faster. It is no picknick though. HS track may not make you faster but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

[icu812]

Vertical Jump
Average Improvement= 5.5 inches
Most Improved= 12 inches
Best Jump= 43 inches

Standing Broad Jump
Average Improvement= 8.92 inches
Most Improved= 23 inches
Best Jump= 128 inches

Pro Agility (5-10-5) Test
Average Improvement= .43 sec
Most Improved= .91 sec
Best= 3.87 sec

40 Yard Dash - measures linear Speed
Average Improvement= .46 sec (some improvements are extreme) Expect .2 or better.
Most Improved= 1.63 sec
Best= 4.25 sec

[WOS1]

You can refine it, but you can't "teach" it. Being from WOS and coaching many kids from around here, I've seen some fast kids. These kids were fast when they were on the play grounds when they were little. They were born with it and many were born from parents who also had it. It is genetic more than anything. Far more than strength is. Strength is still limited to genetics to a certain degree, but nothing like speed.

Now, you can take a kid, get him on a weight program and increase his speed incrementally, but you aren't going to turn a slow kid into a fast kid... No way.

Justin Thomas, the reigning State Champion in the 200 meters father, Larnell, was a finalist in the 110 hurdles in the early 80's in 5A.

Trey Franks, last years 100 meter Champions dad, Kerry, was a finalist in the 100 in the early 80's in 5A. His older brother, Kerry Jr, was a kick returner and WR for A&M and while he was on the team was the fastest player A&M had.

It's all about genetics....

[Cam]

I've read a study where african american runners have an extra muscle in their calf.

























someone had to say it.

no foolin'??...and all this time I thought it was an extra muscle in the buttocks!.....I swear I'll never read another article by a whitey doctor/researcher!! Next thing ya know....I'll be hearing that all Latins have two anusssssess.......and that Mr. Snuffleupagus' trunk is really his penis!!......i give up......but just to clarify...I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally! Or actually, I love everybody equally!!:inlove:

[WOS1]

Most Improved= 1.63 sec

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is saying they took a kid who ran a 6.0 and taught him to run a 4.37. If so, I'm gonna tell you that this person/coach/organization is full of "you know what"... Not in the 40 they didn't. Been there done that for too long, I know that didn't happen...

[BEAST]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is saying they took a kid who ran a 6.0 and taught him to run a 4.37. If so, I'm gonna tell you that this person/coach/organization is full of "you know what"... Not in the 40 they didn't. Been there done that for too long, I know that didn't happen...


But look at it like this. Say it was an overweight lineman who first ran a 7.63. After proper training and diet, he dropped that time to a 6.0. Now, that is not so hard to believe.




BEAST

[MGAR]

I think it was along the lines of what Beast said.

This place is legit. Student/Athletes from all over attend.

Here's some more of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v22JunvaXTE

[Phil C]

I've heard the saying "You can't coach speed." I have never heard the quote "You can't teach speed." It make sense because you literally can't coach it because the kids either have it or do not have it.

I ran track and speed can be developed with practice and training and improved but still the kid has to have some natural ability. I think what the coaches mean is that "You can't teach natural ability." You either have it or you don't but a coach can bring out what you have with proper training and practice and coaching.

[Old Tiger]

no foolin'??...and all this time I thought it was an extra muscle in the buttocks!.....I swear I'll never read another article by a whitey doctor/researcher!! Next thing ya know....I'll be hearing that all Latins have two anusssssess.......and that Mr. Snuffleupagus' trunk is really his penis!!......i give up......but just to clarify...I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally! Or actually, I love everybody equally!!:inlove:Actually the latinos come with two ass' because they work there first one off!

[oldtownag]

Wrong, been a track coach and what you do is refine it, maximize it, improve technique.


Probably the reason you are no longer a coach! I guess next you guys are going to say you cant teach football? I'm not saying that you can take an overweight 40 something like me and turn me into an Olympic athlete. I am saying that technique, nutrition, strength training, etc.. will increase your speed.

[Ranger Mom]

no foolin'??...and all this time I thought it was an extra muscle in the buttocks!.....I swear I'll never read another article by a whitey doctor/researcher!! Next thing ya know....I'll be hearing that all Latins have two anusssssess.......and that Mr. Snuffleupagus' trunk is really his penis!!......i give up......but just to clarify...I'm not racist. I hate everybody equally! Or actually, I love everybody equally!!:inlove:

I always heard that their tendons were longer in the back of their heels!! I don't know what to believe now either!!!:eek:

[LH Panther Mom]

Not with that attitude, for sure! :)
LOL! My dad was a coach for many years. I was decent at the hurdles, but never had much athletic ability. I was okay with that, even though it stunk, but I did practice and try to the best of my ability.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Probably the reason you are no longer a coach! I guess next you guys are going to say you cant teach football? I'm not saying that you can take an overweight 40 something like me and turn me into an Olympic athlete. I am saying that technique, nutrition, strength training, etc.. will increase your speed.
Yes but that does not give them something they do not have. They cannot run a 4.2 because you believe you can teach them. If 4.7 is the best they can do with training then that really aint speed. Just middlin. The guy you got to 4.2 is the speed guy and he had the tools to get there with the proper refinements.

[bigwood33]

Probably the reason you are no longer a coach! I guess next you guys are going to say you cant teach football? I'm not saying that you can take an overweight 40 something like me and turn me into an Olympic athlete. I am saying that technique, nutrition, strength training, etc.. will increase your speed.
To your first statement, not so much. I DO agree with your last statement which is what I have been saying. Every athlete has a "ceiling" as to how fast he or she can run. Through intensive training incremental improvement can be made. If you have a kid, who is through growing, that is in reasonably good shape, that has been in a strength and conditioning program, etc, etc, it is very unlikely that anything will greatly improve their speed. If there were, there would be a bunch of ligit 4.4's and kids running 10.2 in the 100 meters, but there aren't. Technique and explosion drills will help that kid reach their "ceiling" that he/she would not otherwise be able to reach. I will also say that most kids never reach their "ceiling" because they are unwilling to work hard enough to maximize their speed. We may be arguing semantics. If a kid is still growing and maturing, you can see some dramatic improvements in speed but once they finish growing, we are back to my previous statement.
Now, chemistry CAN dramatically improve speed....just see Ben Johnson's times before, during, and after he was juicing. While he was on the juice, he was incredibly fast. When he wasn't, he was just simply fast. His situation sort of supports my position. No amount of training was ever able to allow him to improve his natural speed to the level that it was when he was on the juice. He worked very hard to try to prove that he didn't need the juice to be a dominant sprinter but he just couldn't close the gap.

[WOS1]

But look at it like this. Say it was an overweight lineman who first ran a 7.63. After proper training and diet, he dropped that time to a 6.0. Now, that is not so hard to believe.




BEAST

Well, putting it that way, I guess it's possible. But man, 7.63? I would hate to see the kid that is that slow... I don't even know you, but I bet you could run a 7.63 backwards... lol