Ethics advice:

[Farmersfan]

As I told everyone a few weeks ago I have a new (and surprise) granddaughter. Because the kids were not expecting a new child they certainly were not prepared for this so being the great dad that I am I insisted they move into my spare bedroom for a while until they can get their s*** together. At the time of the invitation I informed my son and his baby mama that they are welcome but their 4 dogs were not. It was brought up twice in the past 3 weeks in conversation and both times I told them that my little male dog would not tolerate another male dog in the house. He is a great dog around kids and grownups but is a little monster around other male dogs. Well yesterday the kids decided, on their own, to bring their two small house dogs to my house. (1 female, 1 small male chihuahua). So after trying to keep a constant eye on them all evening it finally happened. My dog litteral torn the chihuahua a new one. they had to take the dog to an emergency vet last night where it got 7 stitches in the anus. Here's the dilemma: The vet bill is over 800.00 and my daughter-in-law called her mama from the vet and her mama paid for the vet bill. On the one hand I feel responsible for the vet bill and think I should pay it but on the other hand I am very pissed because the kids caused (dispite my instructions) a situation that is costing me not only financially but causing me to lose sleep and stress over feeling the guilt. I know I should not feel guilty or responsible but you know how it goes! Any suggestions or comments?

[Gsquared]

Man, thats a tuff one. You warned them so I think when its all said and done, you shouldnt feel like you have to pay. However, as a dad, probably tugs at ya and you want to pay.

[Farmersfan]

Man, thats a tuff one. You warned them so I think when its all said and done, you shouldnt feel like you have to pay. However, as a dad, probably tugs at ya and you want to pay.


I would pay without hesitation if the kids were having to come up with the money. Her mother paid the bill so I would have to reimburse her for it. And it's really not the money that has stopped me from already writing the check. There seems to be a principal here and it's making me nuts deciding what is fair and what is right!

[jason]

i would say too bad, i told you not to bring them in the house...

[Gsquared]

I would pay without hesitation if the kids were having to come up with the money. Her mother paid the bill so I would have to reimburse her for it. And it's really not the money that has stopped me from already writing the check. There seems to be a principal here and it's making me nuts deciding what is fair and what is right!
If it comes down to principals, you dont owe a thing. You told them, dont bring the dogs over because this is what is likely to happen. They didnt heed your warning/instruction (in your house) and it went down like you told them.

[MGAR]

How does the mom feel about paying the bill?

[RoyceTTU]

I would pay without hesitation if the kids were having to come up with the money. Her mother paid the bill so I would have to reimburse her for it. And it's really not the money that has stopped me from already writing the check. There seems to be a principal here and it's making me nuts deciding what is fair and what is right!

Cooler heads should always prevail. Yes you are in the right but because it's your kids all you can do is try to turn it into a teaching moment. I had a bunch of bone-head moves growing up but you can bet my father made me pay back every dime in some way or fashion.

Meet up with her Mom, tell her thanks and offer to pay her if you can afford it. Tell her you feel it is right that the kids work towards finding a way to pay you/her back. Let the kids put a game plan/payment plan in place that is attainable. Might only be $50 a month but it has to be something consistant and possible. Leaving an open ended "I'll pay you back when I can" is like urinating in the wind.

I promise they have learned their lesson as far as the dogs are concerned, but to be honest, if the kids are living with you, the bigger lesson is going to be financial responsiblity. This is a great way to teach them how to overcome budget shortfalls.

Good Luck

[ronwx5x]

How about paying half to her mother as a loan to the kids. Part of being a responsible adult, parent and dog owner is stepping up when you're wrong and they need to step up.

[BwdLion73]

Dear Abbey, $800 Bucks! How much to put the dog to sleep?

[bobcat1]

If it comes down to principals, you dont owe a thing. You told them, dont bring the dogs over because this is what is likely to happen. They didnt heed your warning/instruction (in your house) and it went down like you told them. this

[Farmersfan]

this



Thanks everyone! I think I will make the offer to repay the mom the money for the vet bill and let her decide. Since she is offering the money to the kids for free I can't very well refund her and then tell the kids they have to pay me back. It's kind of catch 22 isn't it?

[JJWalker]

I just checked my ethics book ... and it said ... grab a beer, sit in your recliner, and smile like it is your house.

[AP Panther Fan]

I just checked my ethics book ... and it said ... grab a beer, sit in your recliner, and smile like it is your house.

I like this answer.

I might be inclined to pay the Mom half of the bill, but.....you are already giving them a free place to live and relieving Mom of that expense. You could just consider it her "contribution" to the goal of getting them on their feet.

[OldNavy]

Ask the kids what they think should be done given the circumstances and see what they have to say. They might surprise you. They may have a solution that satisfies everyone. It is always easier if it is their idea.

[Farmersfan]

Ask the kids what they think should be done given the circumstances and see what they have to say. They might surprise you. They may have a solution that satisfies everyone. It is always easier if it is their idea.


This is really a great idea!

[LH Panther Mom]

Okay, maybe I missed something, but how did they not know they were expecting a child?


Yeah, I know that wasn't the question...just saying! My thought is too bad, so sad (on the money). It's not like you didn't tell them ahead of time!

[bigwood33]

I also think that you should consider kenneling your dog for 1 day and "accidentally" leaving your front door open all day...the unwanted house guests might just run off!

[LionFan72]

In this day of tolerance and acceptance, this is tough to deal with. With that said and not knowing you personally, I can only say what I would do.

If you can't teach your kids responsibility, they have to learn the hard way. Damn it is hard being hard, especially with your own kids, but at some point they must realize that they are endowed with their own mistakes and reasons, therefore they must accept the consequences for their actions.

Have a beer, discuss with them what they think, have another beer, then let it go.

[SintonFan]

In this day of tolerance and acceptance, this is tough to deal with. With that said and not knowing you personally, I can only say what I would do.

If you can't teach your kids responsibility, they have to learn the hard way. Damn it is hard being hard, especially with your own kids, but at some point they must realize that they are endowed with their own mistakes and reasons, therefore they must accept the consequences for their actions.

Have a beer, discuss with them what they think, have another beer, then let it go.

That is a bit of a contradiction. :confused:

[SintonFan]

As I told everyone a few weeks ago I have a new (and surprise) granddaughter. Because the kids were not expecting a new child they certainly were not prepared for this so being the great dad that I am I insisted they move into my spare bedroom for a while until they can get their s*** together. At the time of the invitation I informed my son and his baby mama that they are welcome but their 4 dogs were not. It was brought up twice in the past 3 weeks in conversation and both times I told them that my little male dog would not tolerate another male dog in the house. He is a great dog around kids and grownups but is a little monster around other male dogs. Well yesterday the kids decided, on their own, to bring their two small house dogs to my house. (1 female, 1 small male chihuahua). So after trying to keep a constant eye on them all evening it finally happened. My dog litteral torn the chihuahua a new one. they had to take the dog to an emergency vet last night where it got 7 stitches in the anus. Here's the dilemma: The vet bill is over 800.00 and my daughter-in-law called her mama from the vet and her mama paid for the vet bill. On the one hand I feel responsible for the vet bill and think I should pay it but on the other hand I am very pissed because the kids caused (dispite my instructions) a situation that is costing me not only financially but causing me to lose sleep and stress over feeling the guilt. I know I should not feel guilty or responsible but you know how it goes! Any suggestions or comments?

Buy them a copy of Dave Ramsey's "Total Money Make-over" and then send them to Financial Peace University.
Links:
http://www.daveramsey.com/store/prod326.html
http://www.daveramsey.com/store/financial-peace-university/cFPU-p1.html

That will go a loooong ways toward them getting their "S*** together".

[BILLYFRED0000]

this

ditto

[trojandad]

ff, seems to me the strain is this situation is two fold, 1) you are keeping quiet about the living financial costs being paid out by you each month, as the good dad you are, and 2) your the only one feeling the responsibility of paying for the vet bill, again, as the good dad you are...

seems to me that your kids, without being malicious, have done a good job of "passing the monkey" to you in the form of guilt....

passing the monkey is always done thru silence, therefore, in order to pass the monkey back, you have to become as good at silence as all others involved in this circle....

i understand you have many years of involvement with your family which no doubt influences this once decision, but just with what you have shared on here, this was the first thought i had on how to pass that monkey back:

make a list titled "MONEY I FEEL RESPONSIBLE TO PAY FOR SOME REASON", then under it, id list the vet bill....

then id make another list titled "BILLS I HAVE TO PAY TO HOUSE LOVED ONES" and id list all the bills that im responsible to pay in order for them to be there....no doubt this list over months will dwarf the $800....

then, at the bottom of each list, id write the same thing....."I COULDNT LOVE EVERYBODY THAT LIVES IN THIS HOUSE ANYMORE IF I TRIED!!"....

id post these two lists. side by side, somewhere in the house that gets frequented...the refrigerator door would be a good one in our house.....

then id figure out a way to keep my mouth shut about the lists, because THE FIRST ONE THAT SPEAKS LOSES......remember, the art of "passing the monkey"??


no doubt this plan would need tweeking at each home, but the trick is to let the same guilt eating you chew on them a little bit....if they brought the dog in without your blessings, they obviously need a reminder that you get a vote around there, at least occasionally....good luck, buddy....

btw, the other mom probably paid the bill because she feels the same guilt you do, except her guilt comes in not paying the extreme bills that you are incurring monthly......if you were a fly on her wall, youd prolly find out she feels the same guilt you do, only hers occurs each month, not just one puppy bite....:)

[1st and goal]

I know, I know, your house, your rules...You invited them. Unfortunately they have baggage in the form of pets. For the most part I agree with you almost 100% and this was unfortunate. OTOH, how could you expect them to give up their dogs anymore than you would give up your dog? Easy to say because they can't afford them but hard to do as dogs become loved almost like children.

Children being children, inevitably let their dogs in the home but... (part you won't like)..your dog WAS the aggressor. As hot as it's been, keeping dogs outside is almost cruelty when it gets over 103.

I say you at least pay half, and put control measures on your dog for the time being. Even the dog whisperer's huge 150lb pit bull doesn't attack other dogs as he is in command of it.

PS. Can the little dogs go live with the other mom?

[eagles_victory]

I wouldn't give them anything. As for Royces idea they aren't 8 years old lol.

[1st and goal]

In this day of tolerance and acceptance, this is tough to deal with. With that said and not knowing you personally, I can only say what I would do.

If you can't teach your kids responsibility, they have to learn the hard way. Damn it is hard being hard, especially with your own kids, but at some point they must realize that they are endowed with their own mistakes and reasons, therefore they must accept the consequences for their actions.

Have a beer, discuss with them what they think, have another beer, then let it go.
Pretty good advice too...Just sayin'

[Farmersfan]

UPDATE:

I had a sit down with both kids and asked them what they were thinking about the whole situation. It took a while to get everyone talking from the heart but it turned out to be a very productive family meeting once someone broke the ice and the truth started coming out. It seems my daughter-in-law (almost) thinks I'm an ogre for expecting her to abandon her dogs. That stung! But my son surprised me by telling me that he had already made arrangements to pay back the money to her mom even though her mom didn't want the money paid back. So I basically explained to them both that I felt my wife and I were both very happy for them to be with us on a temp basis and we would help them out as much as we could until they get their lives in order and can get another house of their own but the offer was conditional on the dogs NOT being brought to my house and them saving their money to put it towards getting the hell out. Good or bad they could take it or leave it! Come to find out her mom had also offered for them to move in with her in Garland but she also would not take the 4 dogs. She has 2 sisters that have homes of their own and neither one of them would help with the dogs. So to make a long story short, everything is ok now and they are looking for a rent house that they can afford close to us and between us and her mom we should be able to make sure they take care of the baby and my son can still finish school. He will be getting a 4 year degree in 3 years if he sticks to his plan. At this point that is my second highest priority. (Taking care of the baby is first).

Thanks for all the comments and advice everyone.

P.S............. Anyone want a male Chiuahua that walks around with an erection all the time and now with a ripped Anus??????

[BwdLion73]

UPDATE:

P.S............. Anyone want a male Chiuahua that walks around with an erection all the time and now with a ripped Anus??????

Anyone else thinking of the same poster I am? :doh::devil:

[trojandad]

UPDATE:

I had a sit down with both kids and asked them what they were thinking about the whole situation. It took a while to get everyone talking from the heart but it turned out to be a very productive family meeting once someone broke the ice and the truth started coming out. It seems my daughter-in-law (almost) thinks I'm an ogre for expecting her to abandon her dogs. That stung! But my son surprised me by telling me that he had already made arrangements to pay back the money to her mom even though her mom didn't want the money paid back. So I basically explained to them both that I felt my wife and I were both very happy for them to be with us on a temp basis and we would help them out as much as we could until they get their lives in order and can get another house of their own but the offer was conditional on the dogs NOT being brought to my house and them saving their money to put it towards getting the hell out. Good or bad they could take it or leave it! Come to find out her mom had also offered for them to move in with her in Garland but she also would not take the 4 dogs. She has 2 sisters that have homes of their own and neither one of them would help with the dogs. So to make a long story short, everything is ok now and they are looking for a rent house that they can afford close to us and between us and her mom we should be able to make sure they take care of the baby and my son can still finish school. He will be getting a 4 year degree in 3 years if he sticks to his plan. At this point that is my second highest priority. (Taking care of the baby is first).

Thanks for all the comments and advice everyone.

P.S............. Anyone want a male Chiuahua that walks around with an erection all the time and now with a ripped Anus??????

i musta missed the part where you wanted her to abandon her dogs, all i heard was you didnt want the dogs interacting with yours....but if mom had the same guideline with daughter, she decided she could push the dogs over on you easier than she could push them on her mom.....no doubt a telling sign for the future, buddy....

your son sounds like an apple of your tree, for sure....no doubt in the future youll be able to talk to him and he can decipher for the (almost) ogre to her....

as for the chihuahua description, about 25 jokes spring to mind, all of which ranger mom would get mad at me for in an open room (most of which have to do with dressing him up in lace and walking him on the east end of dallas), but ill be a good boy....:)

[bigwood33]

UPDATE:
It seems my daughter-in-law (almost) thinks I'm an ogre for expecting her to abandon her dogs.

P.S............. Anyone want a male Chiuahua that walks around with an erection all the time and now with a ripped Anus??????

As for these 2 items from you post...I had better not comment on your daughter-in-law (almost) because it might not be nice.

On the 2nd, "not so much"! However, I will say that is one funny line that you dropped!

[1st and goal]

Glad things are out in the open. 4 dogs are too much unless you have a circus dog act or a ton of money to look after them. Getting a new puppy is the easy part, dealing with the downstream fallout is the tough part. Kind of like getting entitlements, so easy to get started but hard to wean yourself from them.

[LH Panther Mom]

P.S............. Anyone want a male Chiuahua that walks around with an erection all the time and now with a ripped Anus??????
Oh Good Lord, NO! Been there, done that...well, not the ripped Anus part. :ack!: :ack!: And I really do not care for Chihuahua's because of it. Coincidentally, or maybe ironically, his name was Woody. :doh:

[AP Panther Fan]

Coincidentally, or maybe ironically, his name was Woody. :doh:

My son has moved his little, black chihuahua into our home. His name is Zephyr, but I think it should be Lucifer. Crazy, damn little dog! It barks alot and sheds...I can't decide what I dislike more.:twitch: