Mark Jackson: "I think Wade's the third-best SG ever....

[big daddy russ]

...behind MJ and Kobe... People think I'm crazy."

VanGundy: "I don't think you're crazy."


Never thought about it, but he could be right. Opinions?

[coach]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
...behind MJ and Kobe... People think I'm crazy."

VanGundy: "I don't think you're crazy."


Never thought about it, but he could be right. Opinions?

he sure the hell is playing like it

[coach]

although he does have a 15 win season under his belt....but his finals performance is one of the best ever

[orange machine]

I'll take wade over James everytime.

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by orange machine
I'll take wade over James everytime. James is the most overrated player in the NBA IMO. I just dont see it other than the occasional highlight reel play he doesnt stand out to me

[coach]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
James is the most overrated player in the NBA IMO. I just dont see it other than the occasional highlight reel play he doesnt stand out to me

you must not watch much basketball then

[Txbroadcaster]

I think it is unfair to decide a players place in history while they are still playing

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by coach
you must not watch much basketball then I watch alot of basketball. He is good but not anything close to what he is made out to be

[coach]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
I watch alot of basketball. He is good but not anything close to what he is made out to be

he is def. not overrated. the kid is damned good. the most versitile player in the league

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by coach
he is def. not overrated. the kid is damned good. the most versitile player in the league ESPN makes it seem as if he is the next MJ. He is not even close. I dont think he is top 3 in the League right now

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
James is the most overrated player in the NBA IMO. I just dont see it other than the occasional highlight reel play he doesnt stand out to me
Originally posted by bobcat4life
ESPN makes it seem as if he is the next MJ. He is not even close. I dont think he is top 3 in the League right now
Jordan's more overrated than LeBron.

[eagles_victory]

For the first time tonight I saw it differently and think the Dallas Mavericks have a very good chance to win it all. Jason Smith brought it up during the Bulls series when Wade really struggled and now with Lebron struggling lately. I think it goes back to what everyone said in the offseason how are they going to work together when they play the same exact style. There have been times where Wades game suffered because of Lebron and I really feel as if Lebrons game is struggling because of Wade right now (and he is playing so passive like Ive never seen him play before). That and I think he may be hitting a bit of a wall with fatigue they have been saying it since game 1 of the finals on the Heat boards. He has played 45 to 46 minutes a game and played so hard on defense against Rose and Pierce.

I have been watching Lebron for about 10 years now and listening to all the pressers I honestly feel for the first time right now he could possibly be regretting going to Miami. Make no mistake about it Lebron wants to get his numbers no matter what he says tonights game hurt that guy bad.

[coach]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Jordan's more overrated than LeBron.

child please

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
For the first time tonight I saw it differently and think the Dallas Mavericks have a very good chance to win it all. Jason Smith brought it up during the Bulls series when Wade really struggled and now with Lebron struggling lately. I think it goes back to what everyone said in the offseason how are they going to work together when they play the same exact style. There have been times where Wades game suffered because of Lebron and I really feel as if Lebrons game is struggling because of Wade right now (and he is playing so passive like Ive never seen him play before). That and I think he may be hitting a bit of a wall with fatigue they have been saying it since game 1 of the finals on the Heat boards. He has played 45 to 46 minutes a game and played so hard on defense against Rose and Pierce.

I have been watching Lebron for about 10 years now and listening to all the pressers I honestly feel for the first time right now he could possibly be regretting going to Miami. Make no mistake about it Lebron wants to get his numbers no matter what he says tonights game hurt that guy bad.


If you examine the dynamics of the Wade/James/Bosh trio for this entire season you see that the 3 of them will get 65 to 70 pts combined almost every single night. Some nights it's Bron that goes off, some nights it Wade and some nights it's Bosh. Rarely is it ever 2 going off and NEVER all 3. There just isn't enough possessions in a single game to satisfy all 3. Last night they scored 65 pts. just like they have in every game in this series. LeBron could have done better but that takes points away from one of the others.

[buff4ever]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
For the first time tonight I saw it differently and think the Dallas Mavericks have a very good chance to win it all. Jason Smith brought it up during the Bulls series when Wade really struggled and now with Lebron struggling lately. I think it goes back to what everyone said in the offseason how are they going to work together when they play the same exact style. There have been times where Wades game suffered because of Lebron and I really feel as if Lebrons game is struggling because of Wade right now (and he is playing so passive like Ive never seen him play before). That and I think he may be hitting a bit of a wall with fatigue they have been saying it since game 1 of the finals on the Heat boards. He has played 45 to 46 minutes a game and played so hard on defense against Rose and Pierce.

I have been watching Lebron for about 10 years now and listening to all the pressers I honestly feel for the first time right now he could possibly be regretting going to Miami. Make no mistake about it Lebron wants to get his numbers no matter what he says tonights game hurt that guy bad.


He isn't going to regret going to Miami unless they lose this series. He wouldn't be in a position to win his first champ ring if he were still in Cleveland.

He may try and get out of Miami upon winning, but that doesn't mean that he regrets going there. The guy wants a ring.

[buff4ever]

Wade is better than James

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by buff4ever
Wade is better than James



In this matchup I would agree. The Mavs have one-on-one defenders that can somewhat stay in front of Lebron. (somewhat). But Wade is too quick on the dribble for any of the Mavs defenders. He is the X factor in this series. The wins and loses will be determined by how much/little support he gets from the support players. Just the same with the Mavs. Dirk will get his but how much scoring we can get from our support people will determine if we can win.

BTW: I see both Wade and Lebron wearing down before this thing is done. Their flying high tomahawk dunks are awesome to watch but that uses a ton more energy than a simple layup. And both of them are working way, way harder on defense. I don't think Wade can continue to dominate like he has so if Lebron doesn't pick up the slack I can't see the heat staying up with the Mavs in points. But history shows us that if Wade is off then Lebron will certainly be on................... Great series!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by coach
child please
I've got ten years on you. I watched Jordan. Jordan never single-handedly won anything except maybe a playoff series here or there.

Nobody ever really thought D-Wade could single-handedly bring a team a championship.

Now we've been told that Jordan was the only perimeter player that's ever guided his team to an NBA title. But what we've been told is far different from the truth.

Those lies=overrated.

Doesn't mean MJ's not the best...or if not, one of the two or three best player(s) ever. Just means even Michael Jordan himself couldn't live up to the myth of Michael Jordan.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I've got ten years on you. I watched Jordan. Jordan never single-handedly won anything except maybe a playoff series here or there.

Nobody ever really thought D-Wade could single-handedly bring a team a championship.

Now we've been told that Jordan was the only perimeter player that's ever guided his team to an NBA title. But what we've been told is far different from the truth.

Those lies=overrated.

Doesn't mean MJ's not the best...or if not, one of the two or three best player(s) ever. Just means even Michael Jordan himself couldn't live up to the myth of Michael Jordan.


I disagree somewhat. Nobody wins a championship by themselves. NOBODY!! But, Chicago won 3 straight. Then Jordan left for 2 years. They were still competitive without him but not good enough. He comes back and they win 3 straight again. I venture to say, if he didnt leave, they would've won 8 straight. The man was unstoppable.




BEAST

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by BEAST
I disagree somewhat. Nobody wins a championship by themselves. NOBODY!! But, Chicago won 3 straight. Then Jordan left for 2 years. They were still competitive without him but not good enough. He comes back and they win 3 straight again. I venture to say, if he didnt leave, they would've won 8 straight. The man was unstoppable.




BEAST
I won't disagree with any of that. But the Bulls were still an elite team when he left, he was just the final piece of the puzzle.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I've got ten years on you. I watched Jordan. Jordan never single-handedly won anything except maybe a playoff series here or there.

Nobody ever really thought D-Wade could single-handedly bring a team a championship.

Now we've been told that Jordan was the only perimeter player that's ever guided his team to an NBA title. But what we've been told is far different from the truth.

Those lies=overrated.

Doesn't mean MJ's not the best...or if not, one of the two or three best player(s) ever. Just means even Michael Jordan himself couldn't live up to the myth of Michael Jordan.



Even if everyone were to agree that athletically Jordan and Lebron were equals the mental and emotional difference would set them miles apart for me. Lebron is a spoiled, prima-donna rich kid that has NEVER had to work hard in his life. God granted him unstoppable physical attributes and for the most part he has coasted through life and I wouldn't hesitate to say that with those same physical attributes about 3/4 of this talk forum would have as much or better success than Lebron will have. I honestly believe Lebron will go down in history as a great player but will never be put in Jordans class when everything is said and done.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Even if everyone were to agree that athletically Jordan and Lebron were equals the mental and emotional difference would set them miles apart for me. Lebron is a spoiled, prima-donna rich kid that has NEVER had to work hard in his life. God granted him unstoppable physical attributes and for the most part he has coasted through life and I wouldn't hesitate to say that with those same physical attributes about 3/4 of this talk forum would have as much or better success than Lebron will have. I honestly believe Lebron will go down in history as a great player but will never be put in Jordans class when everything is said and done.

How can you say he coasted? You dont know his life lol

At the same point in their careers Jordan did not have a ring and was called soft, not able to win, a coach killer, only a stat guy not a good teammate etc etc...This is why I said it is unfair to slot a player before his career is over we dont know the path his career will take.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Even if everyone were to agree that athletically Jordan and Lebron were equals the mental and emotional difference would set them miles apart for me. Lebron is a spoiled, prima-donna rich kid that has NEVER had to work hard in his life. God granted him unstoppable physical attributes and for the most part he has coasted through life and I wouldn't hesitate to say that with those same physical attributes about 3/4 of this talk forum would have as much or better success than Lebron will have. I honestly believe Lebron will go down in history as a great player but will never be put in Jordans class when everything is said and done.
I'll agree with some of your points, but definitely not all of them.

I don't know how hard LBJ works in the offseason or at practice, but he's turned himself into a junkyard dog on the court. Last night was a terrible game for him, but we saw the same thing with early MJ and Scottie Pippen throughout their careers when they played 40+ mins per game. The occasional off game happens to everyone.

I'll agree that he's been hurt by lack of competition. Even in All-Star games, he's generally a man among boys. Makes it tough mentally.

And you're definitely right about Michael having that mental edge. That was the thing that set him apart from Jerry West and Dominique Wilkins (another truly underrated player) as just another great perimeter player.

I think the biggest problem for LeBron is that he's a better person than Jordan. He wants to try to find the place where he fits in best with his teammates instead of just playing his game and not worrying about anyone else (which is what he should do). He looks like he's trying to be the first string facilitator, the guy who's the first option for everything else, but that he's trying to keep Wade in the game too much.

Back to the original topic, we're talking about D-Wade as possibly the third-best two guard of all time, but how many people would honestly choose Wade over LeBron if they were starting a team? Those who would have forgotten the last seven years and instead are focused on the last seven days.

To that point, I absolutely disagree. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want Wade closing out these final few games if I'm a HEAT fan, just means LeBron's the king until Wade proves that he's more than just a second top scoring option on an elite team. Dwayne may be the third best SG ever, but LeBron's still an entirely different animal.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
How can you say he coasted? You dont know his life lol

At the same point in their careers Jordan did not have a ring and was called soft, not able to win, a coach killer, only a stat guy not a good teammate etc etc...This is why I said it is unfair to slot a player before his career is over we dont know the path his career will take.
This.

[BaseballUmp]

I think Blake Griffin is the most overrated player in the league right now...all he does is dunk on a horrible team

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
How can you say he coasted? You dont know his life lol

At the same point in their careers Jordan did not have a ring and was called soft, not able to win, a coach killer, only a stat guy not a good teammate etc etc...This is why I said it is unfair to slot a player before his career is over we dont know the path his career will take.

I agree with this. James has all the physical attributes and abilities to become the greatest of all time, just as Jordan did in his day. Question is, will he mature mentally into the player Jordan became? If he does, watch out. If not, he may become the greatest underachiever of all time. His complete history is long from being written yet. It ought to be fun watching it play out. But he's got to somehow repair his image. Jordan never had an image problem the likes of what James is dealing with. He really shot himself in the foot with that fiasco of a three ring circus when he went to Miami. The guy needs a strong dose of humility, if he’s ever going to reach his potential. If the Heat lose this series, it may end up being the best thing to ever happen to him.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
How can you say he coasted? You dont know his life lol

At the same point in their careers Jordan did not have a ring and was called soft, not able to win, a coach killer, only a stat guy not a good teammate etc etc...This is why I said it is unfair to slot a player before his career is over we dont know the path his career will take.



And at this point in his career M. Jordan wasn't being compared to the greatest players in the history of the NBA! He grew into his abilities as a BB player. He evolved into the best player in NBA history. Lebron was BORN into his and the media annointed him the next coming of Jordan before he ever touched a NBA court. He has repeatedly shown a immaturity that Jordan NEVER showed and he also has created a personna of being a arrogant and overly confident player. I'm might be suffering from nostalgia but I really don't ever remember MJ having a tatoo of himself with a crown. The whole KING James thing is sickening and shows where the guys mind is. But that's just my opinion. (shared by millions).

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And at this point in his career M. Jordan wasn't being compared to the greatest players in the history of the NBA! He grew into his abilities as a BB player. He evolved into the best player in NBA history. Lebron was BORN into his and the media annointed him the next coming of Jordan before he ever touched a NBA court. He has repeatedly shown a immaturity that Jordan NEVER showed and he also has created a personna of being a arrogant and overly confident player. I'm might be suffering from nostalgia but I really don't ever remember MJ having a tatoo of himself with a crown. The whole KING James thing is sickening and shows where the guys mind is. But that's just my opinion. (shared by millions).

So it is James's fault the media annointed him something? And yes Jordan DID show this type of immaturity he was friggin called a coach killer because of Doug Collins

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
So it is James's fault the media annointed him something? And yes Jordan DID show this type of immaturity he was friggin called a coach killer because of Doug Collins
Ahhh, selective memory. He punched bible-toting Steve Kerr in the face, quit after his father passed (something I, personally, have no problems with, but in today's age most people would call him a quitter), lit into Pippen and wouldn't apologize after Jordan made the mistake in the Conference Championships, the list goes on and on.

LeBron's less of a primadonna than Jordan was. Jordan just wasn't scrutinized the way James is.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Ahhh, selective memory. He punched bible-toting Steve Kerr in the face, quit after his father passed (something I, personally, have no problems with, but in today's age most people would call him a quitter), lit into Pippen and wouldn't apologize after Jordan made the mistake in the Conference Championships, the list goes on and on.

LeBron's less of a primadonna than Jordan was. Jordan just wasn't scrutinized the way James is.

I dont think MJ quit...I think he was asked to take some time off for his Gambling "suspension"

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I dont think MJ quit...I think he was asked to take some time off for his Gambling "suspension"
That could be very true. I never heard that, always heard the dad story, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
That could be very true. I never heard that, always heard the dad story, but it wouldn't surprise me.


this is why I always thought that

After the Bulls won their third championship, the NBA launched an investigation into Jordan's gambling problems to check whether he had violated any league rules. Then, four months later Jordan stunned the world by suddenly retiring from professional basketball.

At the press conference when he was asked if he would ever return he said, " Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back."

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
this is why I always thought that

After the Bulls won their third championship, the NBA launched an investigation into Jordan's gambling problems to check whether he had violated any league rules. Then, four months later Jordan stunned the world by suddenly retiring from professional basketball.

At the press conference when he was asked if he would ever return he said, " Five years down the road, if the urge comes back, if the Bulls will have me, if David Stern lets me back in the league, I may come back."
Makes a whole lot of sense. A lot of people were murmuring about it at the time as Pete Rose was still fresh in their minds.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Makes a whole lot of sense. A lot of people were murmuring about it at the time as Pete Rose was still fresh in their minds. Either of you ever hear that story about him delaying the Wizards team bus for like 2 hours because he was down like 80 grand to Rip Hamilton in a shooting contest.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Either of you ever hear that story about him delaying the Wizards team bus for like 2 hours because he was down like 80 grand to Rip Hamilton in a shooting contest.
I never heard that.

From what I know of him, he's a terrible human being, but part of what makes him terrible in life is a lot of what made him great on the court.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I never heard that.

From what I know of him, he's a terrible human being, but part of what makes him terrible in life is a lot of what made him great on the court. My friend was telling me Chamillonaire (rapper) sp? had bought some kind of game jersey of Jordans and had it framed. He saw Micheal at a party and asked him if he could ever get him to sign it. MJ told him (bleep) you and walked off but I dont know if that is true.

When did he punch Steve Kerr in the face?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
My friend was telling me Chamillonaire (rapper) sp? had bought some kind of game jersey of Jordans and had it framed. He saw Micheal at a party and asked him if he could ever get him to sign it. MJ told him (bleep) you and walked off but I dont know if that is true.

When did he punch Steve Kerr in the face?
Right after Jordan came back from his first retirement.