Sen. Dan Patrick would like you to know...

[Ernest T Bass]

that education is NOT a constitutional obligation. It is an "entitlement" to be funded only if there is enough money left over after everything else has been funded.
I dont make the news, I just report it.

[Old LB]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
that education is NOT a constitutional obligation. It is an "entitlement" to be funded only if there is enough money left over after everything else has been funded.
I dont make the news, I just report it.

I am not sure exactly what you are talking about but I would say that is as stupid a statement as I have ever heard. An uneducated society is the beginning of the end. :thinking:

[Ernest T Bass]

He said this today during the Senate Finance Committee meeting. He's been one of, if not the, biggest proponent of draconian cuts to education and the promotion of private and charter schools.

[PPHSfan]

So is he right or wrong?

Take opinion out of the equation.

Is what he said true?

It has to be in the constitution somewhere.

I want the truth.

Tell it to me ETB.

I can handle it.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
that education is NOT a constitutional obligation. It is an "entitlement" to be funded only if there is enough money left over after everything else has been funded.
I dont make the news, I just report it.

I'm not sure he said what you said.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
He said this today during the Senate Finance Committee meeting. He's been one of, if not the, biggest proponent of draconian cuts to education and the promotion of private and charter schools.

Draconian?

I dont make the news, I just report it. :eek:
WTH?


Egads man. Why start this this late?
c u n da morn...:speech:

[Ernest T Bass]

I was actually hoping to hear some of y'all's opinions on this.
My own; Id say it falls under that "promote the general welfare line". I'd say it's every bit as much, if not more of, a constitutional obligation as highways, medicaid, AFDC, department of transportation, office of surgeon general, infrastructure, and a whole lot of other things that are funded with tax dollars.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Draconian?
:eek:
WTH?


Egads man. Why start this this late?
c u n da morn...:speech:

Yes, he most definitely said it. Not sure why you or anyone would be suprised by this.
Yes, Draconian. Did I mispell it?
And I have yet to state anything as fact that was not so.

[PPHSfan]

What does the Texas Constitution say?

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
What does the Texas Constitution say?

That's a good question. Not sure anyone knows. It has over 400 amendments. But, Ive always held the opinon that Texas politics have been a joke since Reconstruction.

[PPHSfan]

I'm not trying to take a side. I'm just wondering if he is stating fact or opinion.

[Old LB]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
That's a good question. Not sure anyone knows. It has over 400 amendments. But, Ive always held the opinon that Texas politics have been a joke since Reconstruction.

I think education should be a priority in our great country but if Texas is a joke to you there are several highways leading out of here!

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I'm not trying to take a side. I'm just wondering if he is stating fact or opinion.


Actually, it was easier to find an answer to that question than I thought.
The Texas Constitution says that "a general diffusion of knowledge is essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people", and assigns the STATE, not local districts(I didnt know this part), the "duty to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficent system of public free schools".
So, what do "suitable" and "efficient" mean? The Texas Supreme Court has said those words mean that the state has to make sure local districts have enough money to meet the goals the Legislature sets.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Old LB
I think education should be a priority in our great country but if Texas is a joke to you there are several highways leading out of here!

Maybe you should have made education more of a priority and learned to read properly. I clearly said Texas POLITICS are a joke, which is pretty hard to argue with. Pappy O'Daniel? Ma and Pa Fergueson? LBJ? Ross Perot? Ma Richards? Rick Perry? REALLY?
Texas politics are about the Two R's; Race and Religion. The democrats cater to the racial "minorities" while the republicans try to prove they're the more devout Christians. That's the crap I was referring to.
So, put down your lone star flag and calm down, compadre.

[GreenMonster]

What I find crazy about what has transpired over the last 7 days is that somehow, someway, they managed to throw together some crap legislation almost overnight that when they agreed to it they knew it was illegal and wouldn't hold water unless they changed the the law first. Thank the good Lord above that some rep out of Houston was smart enough to filibuster and keep that law changing vote from ever coming to pass. Now of course there will be a special session, if not more, for them to work on this some more and I fully expect the law to change and the under funded crap piece of legislation to pass, but they will at least be able to really look it over before putting their name on a seriously devastating budget. Once it does pass expect several ISD's to go to court challenging the validity of the new budget and the legality of changing the law to fit the budget instead of changing the budget to fit the law. Hopefully the courts will look it over and say no dice go back to the drawing board. We shall see. I'm really not sure why our state government has suddenly decided that public school is the enemy. They created the mess that public school has become so instead admitting it and correcting their previuos mistakes they are trying to dump it off on the private sector.

[TexMike]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
that education is NOT a constitutional obligation. It is an "entitlement" to be funded only if there is enough money left over after everything else has been funded.
I dont make the news, I just report it.

I have not seen this claim in any of the news reports. I did see where he used the word "entitlement" but I don't see where that means it is funded after everything else.

Even things that are obligations, i.e. national defense, do not have the "right" to unlimited funding. The State does have an obligation to maintain a public school system and nobody I know of is saying public schools should cease to exist. But having the obligation to maintain a public school system does not mean the obligation to pump as much money in as the system wants.

[rancher]

Education is an entitlement. Dan Patrick is correct, we have enough money, CUT THE WASTE AND BLOATED SUPT. SALARIES WITH THEIR PERKS. How about going to what some school districts are not about to do, MAKING THOSE WHO PARTICIPATED IN EXTRA CIRCULAR ACTIVITIES PAY A PARTICIPATION FEE. This was just mention at A&M Cons. School Dist. and now reading of others. Here is what the budget chairman said as reported by the Houston Chronicle. Senate Budget Chairman Steve Ogden, R-Bryan, emphasized that the state actually is spending more for public education in the next two years than it did in the past budget cycle. The spending cuts reflect a reduction in what schools would get under current law.

"The Draconian things that people are saying about what's going to happen to our schools - I don't believe 'em," said Ogden, who added it would be impossible to get the two-thirds legislative vote needed to spend more from the rainy day fund.

How about making those head feetsball coaches work for a living and teach a class or two. CUT THE WASTE.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7593103.html#ixzz1ODLVwgnT

[griff]

ETB, why do you continue to these political posts on the sports forum? Take your political rants where they belong...on the NON-Sports forum.

[rancher]

Would be a very very dull forum without them. I look forward to the exchange of intellectual DNA for those who participate.

[raider red 2000]

Article 7 section 2 (I think) of the Texas constitution talks about education and funding. A forth of all taxes should go to education, if that's not enough then more money will come from the general budget.


So basically patrick is wrong.

[Old LB]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Maybe you should have made education more of a priority and learned to read properly. I clearly said Texas POLITICS are a joke, which is pretty hard to argue with. Pappy O'Daniel? Ma and Pa Fergueson? LBJ? Ross Perot? Ma Richards? Rick Perry? REALLY?
Texas politics are about the Two R's; Race and Religion. The democrats cater to the racial "minorities" while the republicans try to prove they're the more devout Christians. That's the crap I was referring to.
So, put down your lone star flag and calm down, compadre.

You have become a victim of your surroundings. :thinking:

[raider red 2000]

NT

[TexMike]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
Article 7 section 2 (I think) of the Texas constitution talks about education and funding. A forth of all taxes should go to education, if that's not enough then more money will come from the general budget.


So basically patrick is wrong.

Basically, you might want to look at the document yourself and then look in the mirror. That is not what it says.

[rancher]

We're not cutting school budgets," Ogden said. "We're just not giving them as much money as they think they are entitled to."

CUT THE WASTE IN THESE BLOATED DISTRICTS.




Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/02/3124096/senate-finance-chairman-rejects.html#ixzz1ODUk6mWe

[Farmersfan]

I think this is a perfect example of why Local, State and Federal Governments are all broke. Everybody wants fiscal responsibility and less Government spending EXCEPT when it affects them personally.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by TexMike
Basically, you might want to look at the document yourself and then look in the mirror. That is not what it says. (Added Nov. 8, 2005.)

maybe i am not smart enough to understand it.....but this is what it says


Sec. 1. SUPPORT AND MAINTENANCE OF SYSTEM OF PUBLIC FREE SCHOOLS. A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools. Sec. 2. PERPETUAL SCHOOL FUND. All funds, lands and other property heretofore set apart and appropriated for the support of public schools; all the alternate sections of land reserved by the State out of grants heretofore made or that may hereafter be made to railroads or other corporations of any nature whatsoever; one half of the public domain of the State; and all sums of money that may come to the State from the sale of any portion of the same, shall constitute a perpetual public school fund.

Sec. 3. TAXES FOR BENEFIT OF SCHOOLS; SCHOOL DISTRICTS. (a) One-fourth of the revenue derived from the State occupation taxes shall be set apart annually for the benefit of the public free schools.(b) It shall be the duty of the State Board of Education to set aside a sufficient amount of available funds to provide free text books for the use of children attending the public free schools of this State

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CN/htm/CN.7.htm#7.3

[WildTexan972]

so what counts as "State occupation taxes "??


most whining about "cuts" are really a cut in the expected INCREASE to spending in each budget cycle....not a real reduction from the previous actual dollars spent by gubmint....

free education should be about teaching...but so many dollars go to consultants and administrative staff and sub teachers so real teachers can go piddle for days and days each year off at "conferences" it is no wonder the state can not keep up with the BLOAT that the school systems have become today.....and WAY too many "aids" on the payroll to make sure those daycare workers (I mean teachers) don't have to work too hard sitting at that desk for those hours a day....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think this is a perfect example of why Local, State and Federal Governments are all broke. Everybody wants fiscal responsibility and less Government spending EXCEPT when it affects them personally.
There is NO way that this affects me. My wife has both bilingual and special ed certifications, so her job is absolutely secure. Besides that, with her Masters degree, she could always find a job at her dad's company if the extreme Republicans in our State Senate get their way and destroy the educational system. Meanwhile, I'm in sales and we don't have kids (don't plan on having them for another couple of years). Sorry, this is much deeper than just how it affects us or if it's a conservative/liberal debate.

I'm absolutely conservative, one of the founding members of the Sam Houston Tea Party (Huntsville), but you can't put me in the Limbaugh/Hannity box of conservatism (like 90% of today's "conservatives"--who aren't actually conservative--but that's another argument for another day) and I won't let my opinions be reduced to that or dumbed down to their level. I don't care that my Tea Party took a right turn a couple of years ago and went in a different direction. I'm not the same as they are.

For the well-being of a representative republic, we MUST focus on education before roads and health and human services. If education is an entitlement, then what is everything else that they're funding ahead of it?

The answer is that our state government is cutting out the things that don't get them federal or lobbyist monies and keeping those that do. We're letting our state become Mississippi. If I remember correctly from my college days, it was Thomas Paine, a founding father with no formal education, who said that a public education is essential to a functioning republic.

So let's take a step back, let's redefine the word "conservative" back to it's original definition, and let's focus on the many levels of corruption and backwards dealings that go on in Austin instead of simply "the budget." If the budget was really as big of a deal to them as they say it is, they'd let go of their pet projects in order to fund legislation. If it was really important to Gub'na Goodhair (and not just a way to be reelected to office), he would've convened a special session to reorganize the budget following 9-11. If it was really important to Dan Patrick, he wouldn't be pushing private schools on all of us just because his son attended one.

Interesting fact about the Patrick family: his daughter-in-law was a public school teacher at the third grade level in Cy-Fair ISD up until just a few years ago.

Education is the ONLY state-level program that spills over into all other areas of daily life. Crime rates, income levels, incarceration rates, etc, etc. So what I'm worried about right now isn't just a balanced budget, I'm worried about the fact that we're throwing good money (a dollar in Austin is more important than it's been in our lifetimes) after bad. We're refusing to pay for college for the good son who has the drive and ambition to succeed and footing the bill for the one who's 27 with no job, still living at home. The return on investment for what we're spending is minimal.



FYI: Up until the last ten or 15 years, a traditional conservative fought for individual liberties, the constitution, and the ideals of our founding fathers. Neo-conservatives (the modern breed...think Hannity and Rush) twist those ideas based on a snippet or one-liner here or there and refuse to read the body of text. The dirtiest secret in politics today is that a late-20th century conservative was a late-18th century liberal. They were fighting for the true ideals of our founding fathers, something neo-conservatives have lost sight of. Dan Patrick, Rick Perry (who I haven't voted for since 2002), and that bunch are neo-cons. Susan Combs (Republican), Chet Edwards (Democrat), and that bunch are the true conservatives. You can't just look at the letter next to their name and decide if they're conservative based on that.

That's your political lesson for the day. Enjoy with a side of potatoes au gratin.

[big daddy russ]

On a sidenote, Goodhair says a lot of things that he doesn't follow up on. He's absolutely a politician in purest form.

Border control? He wants it and will rail the feds about getting troops down there, but one of his, what, seven or eight powers in the very limited office of Governor of the State of Texas is to mobilize the state guard. Has he done that?

Fiscal responsibility? Of course he wants fiscal responsibility. Whenever it benefits him. Go back and look at 9-11. Was there a special session to reorganize the budget then? Nope. Which is why we only have $9 billion in the Rainy Day Fund as of today. If he would've acted as soon as 9-11 happened (which legislators and his advisors were advising him to do), we wouldn't have drained the Rainy Day Fund back then. And if we were willing to do it back then, why not now? That's right, we've gone back on our promises to our future generations concerning public education, but the money's there. $4 billion, there for the taking. Just sitting in the RDF. And before you say, "We're going to need that money in two years," we'll have some in the bank. The Rainy Day Fund gets replenished with almost $2 billion per budget cycle.



So my problem isn't balancing the budget. It's the criminal way in which we're doing it. If changing a state law that's been in place for more than half a century doesn't scream "corruption" to anyone else, then we're no better than Chicago or Louisiana.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by WildTexan972
so what counts as "State occupation taxes "??


most whining about "cuts" are really a cut in the expected INCREASE to spending in each budget cycle....not a real reduction from the previous actual dollars spent by gubmint....

free education should be about teaching...but so many dollars go to consultants and administrative staff and sub teachers so real teachers can go piddle for days and days each year off at "conferences" it is no wonder the state can not keep up with the BLOAT that the school systems have become today.....and WAY too many "aids" on the payroll to make sure those daycare workers (I mean teachers) don't have to work too hard sitting at that desk for those hours a day....
WildTexan, everyone! :clap: :clap:

The gem of the Downlow. He can barely count to ten, but he's telling us it's OK to cut funding on education.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by WildTexan972
.....and WAY too many "aids" on the payroll to make sure those daycare workers (I mean teachers) don't have to work too hard sitting at that desk for those hours a day....

I don't know how your school chooses to assign their teachers aides, but my school has 6 and all 6 are assigned to the special education teachers. Those 6 aides cover grades 7-12. 2 of those aides are specifically assigned 1 kid each and follow them from class to class because of the severity of their handicap. Also, a lot of the "daycare workers" as you refer to them are Federally funded, and those funds MUST be spent very specifically. Therefore, those salaries are not a part of the state funding we are bickering back and forth about. When teachers/coachers are griping about being underfunded we are griping about the state legislature attempting to break/change their own laws that they set up as "appropriate" funding for schools in order to save a few bucks for their own pet projects. New schools and stadiums are funded by bond elections that the VOTERS of that district voted for and are not paid for with state funds so do not include those in your arguments about bloated school districts either. We are talking about teacher pay, books, and technology funding. As for your complaint about teachers leaving the classroom to go "piddle" at some conference somewhere just remember that TEA sets these conferences up and scheduling for them comes out of Austin and typically they are not "optional" but are requirements from the state for us to attend. Personally, I detest having to go to some waste of time conference that I have been mandated to be at by some know-it-all beaurocrat that thinks he/she knows better than I do as to the training that I need to do my job and fits the need of my specific kids. So you can hop off that train as well. I don't know what it is about education that makes everyone out there an expert on it. Do some research, look into it some more, and you will realize that the teachers/coaches are taking the fall here for problems caused out of Austin and are at fault of nothing more than being run by people that have no idea what the reality of the classrooom is. How would you like it if we all banded together to tell you that you are doing your job all wrong and that you have been living too high on the hog for way too long without us really knowing what goes on in your world and whether it is even your fault or not. Do I agree that there are problems in education? You're damn right I agree with you, but you are WAY off base with where the problem lies. In 2006 the state legislature dramatically changed school funding by slicing property taxes by roughly 40% statewide. Those property taxes are what funded public education in Texas for decades. Each district controlled their own tax rates and raised their own funding from the people that they served. The change was made because the RobinHood Plan was ruled unconstitutional. Robin Hood stole money from the rich districts and spread it to the poor districts. This was their idea of keeping everyone's property taxes at a relatively level % so that areas with high real estate values paid in more money than an area with low real estate values but their percentages were roughly the same. This was unfair to the rich districts and the districts caught in the middle saw what was going on so they raised their tax rates to a high enough number that the state wouldn't take their money to give to the poorer districts which again was unfair to the taxpayers. So in 2006 the state jumped in and their "solution" was to set tax rates statewide at $1.00 per $100 on tax evaluation not counting any school bond funding that individual districts had already voted for. They also created a law that they would fund schools for whatever funds were lacking by pulling it out of the general fund, but those funds would not ever exceed what was deemed necessary to educate a child in 2006. So what your district received in state funds in 2006 is the exact same number they recieved per student in 2011. Now the state is trying to reneg on what they are paying out of the general fund per student. Remember now what has been agreed on is still at the 2006 standard of what amount of money was deemed neccessary to educate a child. So, schools are stuck trying to live on these past standards with no way to increase their income to account for rising energy prices and overall inflation. That 2006 legislation has caused schools to slash expenditures already in order to cover for the inflation that we have all had to endure over the past 5 years. Now the state is trying to back out of paying what they deemed neccessary to educate a child in 2006 not what is neccessary to educate a child in 2011! That's the deal people, how many of you have gone without a raise for the last 5 years and are now being asked to take a cut??? NONE of you. How many of you would have downsized your home and your car in response to that? Or better yet found a better job? Well schools can do none of those things. They can't downsize their home (school buildings) or their car (school buses) and they can't find a new employer (the state). They are stuck bent over with their head between their knees just waiting for this plane to crash and when it does some will die, some will survive, but none will ever be the same again and it's all because of the elected officials in Austin have had their head in the sand the whole time and the general public really has no idea what is going on but they damn sure think that they do because of the misinformation that has been given to them and the idea that schools are over-funded!

[GreenMonster]

BDR you are wise beyond your years. Keep on keepin' on Brotha!! For all you naysayers, just remember who will control the care you recieve in your nursing home days and remember that you believed that your care providers recieved too much funding as a student! The degradation of our society is upon us folks and it is up to us rebuild Rome or fall to the wayside and become a third world country.

[rancher]

The test pilots of the 1950s had a saying for when one of their own messed up and lost an aircraft. The pilot, they said, had “screwed the pooch.” Senator Wendy Davis, her Democratic colleagues, and their consultants have—in the lingo of the test pilots—screwed the pooch.

Davis’ session-ending filibuster on the public school funding formulas was hailed earlier this week as a noble stand for education and a kick in the shins of the possible presidential aspirations of Governor Rick Perry. But after talking with many sources this week who have intimate knowledge of the events leading up to the filibuster, I have a different view of it. Now it looks far more like a pyrrhic victory that increases the possibility that bills will pass that will harm teachers and the Texas Democratic Party for the decade to come.

Thank You Wendy

Here is the full story link on the article. More this special session is about to happen, stay tuned feetsball coaches, you make have to work for a change.


http://www.texasmonthly.com/blogs/burkablog/?p=10622

[rancher]

This train is gaining steam. The Senate Finance Committee made quick work of the omnibus fiscal matters bill SB 1 yesterday, kicking it out in the mid-afternoon after several hours of testimony from the usual round of superintendents and school associations. The full Senate is set to consider the bill known in its previous life as SB 1811 today at 3:30 p.m. And Democrats have lost two crucial weapons they had during the regular session: one, the power of running out the clock, and two, the rule that requires a two-thirds vote to bring an item for consideration. Sen. Royce West, D-Dallas, expressed his frustration yesterday while arguing with Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano, over another education measure. He paused his questions.

"This is an exercise in futility," he said. "You have the votes to do what you want."

Here is full story

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-education/public-education/school-finance-returns-to-senate-floor-what-next/

[TexMike]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
(Added Nov. 8, 2005.)

maybe i am not smart enough to understand it.....but this is what it says


Sec. 1. SUPPORT AND MAINTENANCE OF SYSTEM OF PUBLIC FREE SCHOOLS. A general diffusion of knowledge being essential to the preservation of the liberties and rights of the people, it shall be the duty of the Legislature of the State to establish and make suitable provision for the support and maintenance of an efficient system of public free schools. Sec. 2. PERPETUAL SCHOOL FUND. All funds, lands and other property heretofore set apart and appropriated for the support of public schools; all the alternate sections of land reserved by the State out of grants heretofore made or that may hereafter be made to railroads or other corporations of any nature whatsoever; one half of the public domain of the State; and all sums of money that may come to the State from the sale of any portion of the same, shall constitute a perpetual public school fund.

Sec. 3. TAXES FOR BENEFIT OF SCHOOLS; SCHOOL DISTRICTS. (a) One-fourth of the revenue derived from the State occupation taxes shall be set apart annually for the benefit of the public free schools.(b) It shall be the duty of the State Board of Education to set aside a sufficient amount of available funds to provide free text books for the use of children attending the public free schools of this State

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CN/htm/CN.7.htm#7.3

You said: "Article 7 section 2 (I think) of the Texas constitution talks about education and funding. A forth of all taxes should go to education, if that's not enough then more money will come from the general budget. "

It actually says 1/4th of "occupation taxes", not ALL taxes. It also says the state must provide free text books. It does not say each kid gets a computer or each kid gets whatever the schools want to give them.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
There is NO way that this affects me. My wife has both bilingual and special ed certifications, so her job is absolutely secure. Besides that, with her Masters degree, she could always find a job at her dad's company if the extreme Republicans in our State Senate get their way and destroy the educational system. Meanwhile, I'm in sales and we don't have kids (don't plan on having them for another couple of years). Sorry, this is much deeper than just how it affects us or if it's a conservative/liberal debate.

I'm absolutely conservative, one of the founding members of the Sam Houston Tea Party (Huntsville), but you can't put me in the Limbaugh/Hannity box of conservatism (like 90% of today's "conservatives"--who aren't actually conservative--but that's another argument for another day) and I won't let my opinions be reduced to that or dumbed down to their level. I don't care that my Tea Party took a right turn a couple of years ago and went in a different direction. I'm not the same as they are.

For the well-being of a representative republic, we MUST focus on education before roads and health and human services. If education is an entitlement, then what is everything else that they're funding ahead of it?

The answer is that our state government is cutting out the things that don't get them federal or lobbyist monies and keeping those that do. We're letting our state become Mississippi. If I remember correctly from my college days, it was Thomas Paine, a founding father with no formal education, who said that a public education is essential to a functioning republic.

So let's take a step back, let's redefine the word "conservative" back to it's original definition, and let's focus on the many levels of corruption and backwards dealings that go on in Austin instead of simply "the budget." If the budget was really as big of a deal to them as they say it is, they'd let go of their pet projects in order to fund legislation. If it was really important to Gub'na Goodhair (and not just a way to be reelected to office), he would've convened a special session to reorganize the budget following 9-11. If it was really important to Dan Patrick, he wouldn't be pushing private schools on all of us just because his son attended one.

Interesting fact about the Patrick family: his daughter-in-law was a public school teacher at the third grade level in Cy-Fair ISD up until just a few years ago.

Education is the ONLY state-level program that spills over into all other areas of daily life. Crime rates, income levels, incarceration rates, etc, etc. So what I'm worried about right now isn't just a balanced budget, I'm worried about the fact that we're throwing good money (a dollar in Austin is more important than it's been in our lifetimes) after bad. We're refusing to pay for college for the good son who has the drive and ambition to succeed and footing the bill for the one who's 27 with no job, still living at home. The return on investment for what we're spending is minimal.



FYI: Up until the last ten or 15 years, a traditional conservative fought for individual liberties, the constitution, and the ideals of our founding fathers. Neo-conservatives (the modern breed...think Hannity and Rush) twist those ideas based on a snippet or one-liner here or there and refuse to read the body of text. The dirtiest secret in politics today is that a late-20th century conservative was a late-18th century liberal. They were fighting for the true ideals of our founding fathers, something neo-conservatives have lost sight of. Dan Patrick, Rick Perry (who I haven't voted for since 2002), and that bunch are neo-cons. Susan Combs (Republican), Chet Edwards (Democrat), and that bunch are the true conservatives. You can't just look at the letter next to their name and decide if they're conservative based on that.

That's your political lesson for the day. Enjoy with a side of potatoes au gratin.

Have you ever heard of Dennis Prager?

Click on this link,
Prager University (http://www.prageru.com/) to see some awesome videos.
Like he says, "Give us 5 minutes...":cool:

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by TexMike

It actually says 1/4th of "occupation taxes", not ALL taxes. It also says the state must provide free text books. It does not say each kid gets a computer or each kid gets whatever the schools want to give them.


The only things Ive ever seen schools give kids for free in my career are free meals, which I don't necessarily agree with.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by TexMike
You said: "Article 7 section 2 (I think) of the Texas constitution talks about education and funding. A forth of all taxes should go to education, if that's not enough then more money will come from the general budget. "

It actually says 1/4th of "occupation taxes", not ALL taxes. It also says the state must provide free text books. It does not say each kid gets a computer or each kid gets whatever the schools want to give them. Agreed. I know of a couple of school districts that bought laptops for all students. This is the kind of crap that has to stop.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
The only things Ive ever seen schools give kids for free in my career are free meals, which I don't necessarily agree with. Then you're not looking very hard.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Then you're not looking very hard.

Just know the places Ive worked. I dont like to state things that Ive kinda heard or that I assume happen(a la Wild Texan). There is a lot of ignorance floating around out there about education(once again, a la WT), so I try to keep it to things that I KNOW.
However, since I made that post, Ive talked to some people who have been at schools that did get laptops for the kids(not to keep, of course) that were paid for with donations. Gonna have a hard convincing me without evidence that general funds tax money was used to pay for them. But, if that is the case, then it definitely needs to stop.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Have you ever heard of Dennis Prager?

Click on this link,
Prager University (http://www.prageru.com/) to see some awesome videos.
Like he says, "Give us 5 minutes...":cool:
I've heard of him, but never really gave him much time before. First red flag: the first few questions on his "Are you a liberal?" test. Scroll down to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute (question 6). Who's at fault and who we should back are two different questions. Neither opinion is indicative of whether one is conservative or liberal. Also, look at question 16, about creating wars. There's some very hard truths about that question (yes, there were plenty of economic motivations, some of which I'm fine with), but it somehow pertains the fundamental operation of government. Then look at question 15, about global warming.

For Christ's sakes, it's been scientifically proven! They've gone to a laboratory, taken carbon dioxide/other greenhouse gases and injected them in a tube filled with ozone, and watched the ozone "die" off. It's also basic chemistry. Now the extent to which it is happening is the question. We know it's not as much a non-issue as the "crazy conservatives" would have us believe, but is it as bad as the extreme left would have us believe?

Sorry, that's more of that box that everyone keeps trying to put us in, NOT fundamental conservatism in practice, as we're being told everyday. Denying facts doesn't make you more conservative than the next guy.

FYI, I fully back Israel and score a 4 with the following statement:
"You’re a conservative with perhaps a couple of liberal views."

Funny, I didn't see much real or deep thought conservative thought that went into that poll. We're being asked our opinions, not our beliefs about how government should be run. What we believe and how we believe are two different things.

Conservatism is supposed to be a fundamental way that government operates, not what we think about abortion (which, FYI, is my number one hot button topic). There's so little true differences between the conservatives and liberals of this country, that if you dropped the "conservative" Republicans and "liberal" Democrats smack in the middle of German politics they'd be the exact same party...a moderate-left party. True conservatives over there are the Monarchists.

I believe in fiscal order. But I believe in doing it the right way. If you were following the Dave Ramsey model, you start with selling the cars, getting rid of the car payments, buying cash cars, and then attacking credit cards. You don't start by selling the house, keeping the cars, paying off the cars and credit cards with the equity in the house, then moving into a luxury apartment that costs the same in rent as your mortgage was.

That's what we're doing in this state right now. We're selling the house before we sell the cars.

And this isn't an attack at you at all, Dan. I just really can't stand the way that the definition of fundamental conservatism has shifted over the past 20 years or so. I think modern conservatives do have a little bit of racism without even knowing it. I think we're focused on the wrong things instead of the way government operates.

Do I want them to legalize abortion? Hell no. Do I want them to legalize pot? Hell yeah. Am I a Christian that's actually been working on my walk with God the past year or two? You bet.

And the sad thing is, that statement pisses off both sides of the aisle. The classic Baptists/Protestants just gasped when I said that I like to read my Bible daily and yet want to legalize pot. The classic conservatives just gasped when I said that their brand of conservatism is crap. The libs gasped when I owned up to my Christianity and fight against abortion.

But if I'm not dissenting to the normal way of thinking, then I'm not thinking critically and I've been dumbed down to the Limbaugh/Olbermann level.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ


For Christ's sakes, it's been scientifically proven! They've gone to a laboratory, taken carbon dioxide/other greenhouse gases and injected them in a tube filled with ozone, and watched the ozone "die" off. It's also basic chemistry. Now the extent to which it is happening is the question. We know it's not as much a non-issue as the "crazy conservatives" would have us believe, but is it as bad as the extreme left would have us believe?

Sorry, that's more of that box that everyone keeps trying to put us in, NOT fundamental conservatism in practice, as we're being told everyday. Denying facts doesn't make you more conservative than the next guy.

The question should not be "Is global warming" (aka climate change) happening but rather what is the root cause of it? That is where the discrepancy lies. While very few conservatives will deny there's been any warming at all (I don't personally know anyone in this camp) most liberals think we are the main cause. Yet this has happened before on a global scale, long before we were around. Could we be contributing to it? Perhaps, but I don't think we have anywhere near the effect that the environmentalists would have us believe.

[Ernest T Bass]

Here's the underlying issue. Up until now, education has enjoyed special status. Our lawmakers have always felt that education should be funded before other things. That funding has sometimes fluctuated, it's always come first. We now have a movement to change that by some in Austin(some with ulterior motives, I fear). We have some that feel that education should share status with transportation, pet projects, corrections, etc...If you agree with that, then by all means, jump on board with Patrick, Essler, and the bunch. But, I honestly feel that if this were put to a vote by Texas citizens, it would fail miserably.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Here's the underlying issue. Up until now, education has enjoyed special status. Our lawmakers have always felt that education should be funded before other things. That funding has sometimes fluctuated, it's always come first. We now have a movement to change that by some in Austin(some with ulterior motives, I fear). We have some that feel that education should share status with transportation, pet projects, corrections, etc...If you agree with that, then by all means, jump on board with Patrick, Essler, and the bunch. But, I honestly feel that if this were put to a vote by Texas citizens, it would fail miserably. What you fail to mention is that ALL agencies in Texas have taken cuts. To pretend otherwise is disengnuous.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
What you fail to mention is that ALL agencies in Texas have taken cuts. To pretend otherwise is disengnuous.

Yes, very true. But, in the past, lawmakers had decided to make sure that education was taken care of, and then figured out what to cut and what to fund with the money that was left. That's that "special status" Im talking about. Education was THE priority. But now, education is on the verge of losing that "special status", and the created shortfall and resulting cuts are providing the vehicle for that. That's what Patrick means when he calls this a "true cut in entitlement". He sees education as entitlement spending b/c of that special status. He obviously feels that it shouldn't be, and to go further, he would like to take education off of the state books as much as possible and let the private sector take care of it.
Maybe he's right. Maybe education shouldn't have that special status. Maybe education should be on equal footing with highways, prisons, and pet projects(we already spend exponentially more per inmate than per student). I'm not going to state a side b/c of my obvious bias on that topic. But, I'd be willing to be that if left up to Texans, they'd vote for education to maintain that status.
What do y'all think? Should education be considered "special"?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes, very true. But, in the past, lawmakers had decided to make sure that education was taken care of, and then figured out what to cut and what to fund with the money that was left. That's that "special status" Im talking about. Education was THE priority. But now, education is on the verge of losing that "special status", and the created shortfall and resulting cuts are providing the vehicle for that. That's what Patrick means when he calls this a "true cut in entitlement". He sees education as entitlement spending b/c of that special status. He obviously feels that it shouldn't be, and to go further, he would like to take education off of the state books as much as possible and let the private sector take care of it.
Maybe he's right. Maybe education shouldn't have that special status. Maybe education should be on equal footing with highways, prisons, and pet projects(we already spend exponentially more per inmate than per student). I'm not going to state a side b/c of my obvious bias on that topic. But, I'd be willing to be that if left up to Texans, they'd vote for education to maintain that status.
What do y'all think? Should education be considered "special"? Actually for many, many years education was the last thing funded. When I was growing up I remember studying how the Texas legislature operated and part of that study revealed that education was usually the last thing funded.

Back then we didn't have this huge shortfall in money so it was never that big of an issue. But to act like all of a sudden the lawmakers have deliberately waited until the last minute to screw the education budget is misinformation at its best.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by WildTexan972
so what counts as "State occupation taxes "??


most whining about "cuts" are really a cut in the expected INCREASE to spending in each budget cycle....not a real reduction from the previous actual dollars spent by gubmint....

free education should be about teaching...but so many dollars go to consultants and administrative staff and sub teachers so real teachers can go piddle for days and days each year off at "conferences" it is no wonder the state can not keep up with the BLOAT that the school systems have become today.....and WAY too many "aids" on the payroll to make sure those daycare workers (I mean teachers) don't have to work too hard sitting at that desk for those hours a day....



Originally posted by big daddy russ
WildTexan, everyone! :clap: :clap:

The gem of the Downlow. He can barely count to ten, but he's telling us it's OK to cut funding on education.

http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/lol-045.gif