Private Schools in UIL Play [Archive]

Bullaholic

05-06-2011, 01:50 PM

I think we all will pretty well agree that there is going to be a tremendous increase in the number of private schools. People with money are going to send their kids to these private schools in large numbers. There is an old adage--"He who has the gold makes the rules". Looks like this will be another example.

BTW--I am certainly not anti-rich in any way. If we are honest, we would do the same thing with our kids if we had the means because of the way things are headed in public education.

OldBison75

05-06-2011, 01:50 PM

I'm not a coach, but in Louisiana, private school recruit the best athletes and give "scholarships" to them to get them in their programs. A man I work with has a son and daughter that both were recruited to a local private school. The boy's tuition was paid for buy a local alumni because he was an all state baseball player. The daughter was given tuition from a former students fund to give scholarships based on need. Both kids got a private school education at no cost to the father.

I can see how Texas coaches would see that as a threat to their job security. If you can't compete on a level playing field, you risk your coaching reputation and it will lead public schools to have to try to find ways to stretch the rules to their benefit, WITH NO PUBLIC FUNDS TO USE.

Bullaholic

05-06-2011, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by OldBison75
I'm not a coach, but in Louisiana, private school recruit the best athletes and give "scholarships" to them to get them in their programs. A man I work with has a son and daughter that both were recruited to a local private school. The boy's tuition was paid for buy a local alumni because he was an all state baseball player. The daughter was given tuition from a former students fund to give scholarships based on need. Both kids got a private school education at no cost to the father.

I can see how Texas coaches would see that as a threat to their job security. If you can't compete on a level playing field, you risk your coaching reputation and it will lead public schools to have to try to find ways to stretch the rules to their benefit, WITH NO PUBLIC FUNDS TO USE.

I think most of the "private" schools are mostly parochial aren't they, OB? Especially in South Louisiana.

Black_Magic

05-06-2011, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Why are all you guys scared of the Private schools? Ive never seen more guys just flat out scared of any one thing like what coaches are towards private schools. Bunch a chicken little's THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING... it is ridiculous Not scared at all . I say let them in and let them participate IF and only IF they can prove they live within a prescribed area that the number of high school kids living in the total area count toward thier classification. For instance A private school that gets kids from all over the city must be classified in the very largest classification there is and regardless of thier actual enrollment because they get students from all over the city and are not subject to the normal district boundries everyone else has to obey. They should also disclose finacial payment records for athletes who participate to verify that the parents payed ALL of the school costs and that the kid didnt recieve finacial help from anyone other than the family. Those are just a couple of things to start off. BUT they wont want to do those things.

OldBison75

05-06-2011, 01:58 PM

Yes, there are a majority of those in Louisiana, but the school that these kids went to is not.

upper20

05-06-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Not scared at all . I say let them in and let them participate IF and only IF they can prove they live within a prescribed area that the number of high school kids living in the total area count toward thier classification. For instance A private school that gets kids from all over the city must be classified in the very largest classification there is and regardless of thier actual enrollment because they get students from all over the city and are not subject to the normal district boundries everyone else has to obey. They should also disclose finacial payment records for athletes who participate to verify that the parents payed ALL of the school costs and that the kid didnt recieve finacial help from anyone other than the family. Those are just a couple of things to start off. BUT they wont want to do those things.

This sounds like something that might be workable (the no scholarship rule would severely limit recruiting), but you would need to specify academic standards as well. That said, in sports like baseball, tennis, and golf, the lack of boundaries would give private schools a significant advantage.

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 02:31 PM

But guys, yall already have private schools in the UIL right now and NO im not talking about the Jesuit schools...Im talking about Southlake and Highland Park.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by rancher
The door is now about to be kicked wide open. Why not, like Sen. Patrick said, "These folks are TAXPAYERS."

thats right they are and they chose to send their children to privates.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 03:32 PM

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
But guys, yall already have private schools in the UIL right now and NO im not talking about the Jesuit schools...Im talking about Southlake and Highland Park.

just wondering how do you figure?

sahen

05-06-2011, 04:17 PM

nevermind...didn't read the article first

rancher

05-06-2011, 04:56 PM

No allowing them in is nothing but DISCRIMINATION against the CHRISTIAN schools period. Why are feetsball coaches so afraid?

Txbroadcaster

05-06-2011, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by rancher
No allowing them in is nothing but DISCRIMINATION against the CHRISTIAN schools period. Why are feetsball coaches so afraid?

That might be one of the most absurd things I have ever read on this board

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by rancher
No allowing them in is nothing but DISCRIMINATION against the CHRISTIAN schools period. Why are feetsball coaches so afraid?

just my opinion but it should be the basketball coaches worrying...................and is the same bill with the provisions that would not allow the privates to play football or basketball in the uil....but the other sports such as track, baseball etc?

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by NastySlot
just wondering how do you figure?

Cuz 99% of the population cant afford to move into this very exclusive area.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:11 PM

Patrick is a joke....he didn't grow up playing sports in Texas and wasn't even educated in the state...he doesn't have a clue.............my money says look deep into who he is and I'll he bet he's good buddies with one of those clowns running a mega church...........you know the ones making millions off of religion.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Cuz 99% of the population cant afford to move into this very exclusive area.

that doesn't make them private schools......you said it they are exclusive.

so because they have money you rip them?

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:14 PM

delete

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 05:19 PM

I just dont think it really matters. I dont think that private schools will ever dominate the sports scene in TX. Besides it seems like all you bible thumpers (and you know who you are) would love private schools in the UIL. :)

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 05:21 PM

Im not ripping them...Im just saying there are already "private" schools in the UIL. Weird to me that you can't see it too NASTY SLOT

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Im not ripping them...Im just saying there are already "private" schools in the UIL. Weird to me that you can't see it too NASTY SLOT

I see your point....but I don't consider those schools private...sure the kids and taxpayers in those district have it a lot better then most.

I believe that if people can afford it and want the best for themselves and their children than they can live where they want.

there are a lot people in the southlake district and the park cities that send their children to privates schools also.

what about home school kids......why not let them in also?

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 05:48 PM

in my opinion, everybody pays school taxes so I believe that everybody ought to be able to participate in UIL sponsored events if they choose. For, instance why couldnt a kid in such n such school district be able to compete and be on teams at their local high school even though they are home schooled. Do they not pay the same taxes as others in that community? Also, I think people ought to be able to send their kids where they want to. Lets say you live in FWISD and the schools blow..You oughta be able to send your kids down the road to Azle or Argyle etc.. if you want. The district you are leaving simply takes the funds alloted towards you and transfers them to the school you are going to.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
in my opinion, everybody pays school taxes so I believe that everybody ought to be able to participate in UIL sponsored events if they choose. For, instance why couldnt a kid in such n such school district be able to compete and be on teams at their local high school even though they are home schooled. Do they not pay the same taxes as others in that community? Also, I think people ought to be able to send their kids where they want to. Lets say you live in FWISD and the schools blow..You oughta be able to send your kids down the road to Azle or Argyle etc.. if you want. The district you are leaving simply takes the funds alloted towards you and transfers them to the school you are going to.

if your school blows=low performing you will be able to transfer for academic reasons...to certain districts.

so if I pay my taxes locally I should get to drive the fire truck when I want........so I pay my state taxes( I know we don't have a state income tax)....my child regardless of gpa should be admitted to any state university since I pay taxes. I pay federal taxes so I should get to drive what ever speed I want too on interstates................................do all this regardless of the rules and laws?

look private schools are good options for some people....I respect the product that most put out on the playing fields and with academics............but those people chose to send their kids to privates knowing that they pay taxes to support public education.

Patrick has agenda for himself and his buddies........like I posted earlier most private school coaches I know are happy with TAPPS............TAPPS is a great organization.

Patrick should be worried about finding funding for our budget...what a joke.

rancher

05-06-2011, 07:24 PM

So what you are saying is CHRISTIANS should ride in the back of the bus or attend a seperate school like the blacks of the 60's. Why is a parent required to sent their son or daughter to a failing school or one they feel is not right for their child. What are you afraid of? Competition? The failing gov. school monopoly, when will it change. Hopefully soon.

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 07:27 PM

well there are valid reasons that you cant drive as fast as you want or drive the fire truck etc.. The ONLY reason that people gripe about Privates being allowed into the UIL is because of issues regarding athletics. When you think about it that is a pretty lame reason. I think if some smart lawyers challenge this there is a lawsuit there that could open the flood gates up pretty quick..I mean there are already magnet schools and such where you dont really have an attendance zone. Kids from all over the city can get into the magnet school if they apply. Also another law suit waiting to happen is 3A schools and below not being allowed to have Spring FB. If it is ever challenged that rule would be done away with pretty quick.

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by rancher
So what you are saying is CHRISTIANS should ride in the back of the bus or attend a seperate school like the blacks of the 60's. Why is a parent required to sent their son or daughter to a failing school or one they feel is not right for their child. What are you afraid of? Competition? The failing gov. school monopoly, when will it change. Hopefully soon.

That is exactly what they are saying. They want you to send your kid to the school that is in your attendance zone. This way if you live in a bad neighborhood you get to have crappy schools too.

Im tellin ya if this is ever really challenged in the courts it will blow up big time.

Txbroadcaster

05-06-2011, 07:31 PM

bolshavik

05-06-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
wow nvm on my past post..THIS is now the most absurd post

How is this absurd? The system is set up right now to keep poor people OVER THERE. In the 60's the fight was racism and equality.. Now we have Classism and we still do not have equality. You telling me that kids in any inner city high school has the same opportunities for an education as kids at Southlake? The answer to that is NO. I have often wondered how Universities have their entrance qualifications based allot on SAT/ACT test scores. They are assuming that all kids have the same educational opportunities. Again, if the right people and lawyers challenge this kind of thing it will BLOW UP BIG.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 07:50 PM

whoa...wait a second now your arguement or point is sending kids to a "crappy" school with poor academics?

this has nothing to do with discrimination against christians....i have no idea where that comes from....I sort of think you two have no clue................it is about athletics and playing on a level playing field for all....recruiting, free or reduced tuitions.....Privates i am telling don't want to deal with most of the rules the UIL has....eligibility, coaches being employeed full time etc.........The Privates have it good in TAPPS...which by the way does a great job of preventing recruiting etc.

the problem will arise when the first private school doesn't like the rules of the UIL and where will be again in the courts...or maybe another in the pocket Rep like Patrick proposing another Bill to change the rules to the liking of a select few who can afford a private school education......don't fool yourself.

next thing you will see is schools formed to bring in the best athletes (prep schools for athletics not academics)....you know the kind...enrollment 200.....180 boys in football or enrollment 40 and all boys playing basketball.........is this what you want.....TAPPS doesn't even want that research...Cornerstone Christian Basketball..out of San Antonio.......and just recently Allen Academy you know the school that hired Dave Bliss of Baylor fame...they were recently sanctioned by TAPPS...and left.

wow we already have people belly aching about certain schools and move ins....will not name the schools but you know.

and Bolshevik.......didn't you complain about HP and SLC what you do know that most private schools can select who they accept because they can right...........

and you way off if you think all private schools are christian schools.

whats wrong with the system with have now? We always brag about the level and quality of sports (football) played in this state.....and how much better it is...why change it.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
How is this absurd? The system is set up right now to keep poor people OVER THERE. In the 60's the fight was racism and equality.. Now we have Classism and we still do not have equality. You telling me that kids in any inner city high school has the same opportunities for an education as kids at Southlake? The answer to that is NO. I have often wondered how Universities have their entrance qualifications based allot on SAT/ACT test scores. They are assuming that all kids have the same educational opportunities. Again, if the right people and lawyers challenge this kind of thing it will BLOW UP BIG.

with a lawyer I believe anything can be "blown up".......and you know those kids in the inner city don't have the same everyday quality of life those in the suburbs have......most can't even find jobs in their own neighborhoods why don't you crusade to bring jobs and opportunities to them... you really think a private school is going to take marginal to below average student that doesn't play sports and give them a chance to suceed............your partner rancher has been on a rant about funding and cutting it for weeks now.......the state when it has money can't seem to fund those isd.

and universities and act/sat testing how about TAKS testing...for all of them....you think most of those kids in the inner city care about TAKS....and Exemplary or Unacceptable ratings for their so called "Crappy"schools?

so i guess you think by letting private schools in the uil to play sports than life in the inner city will be better?

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 08:03 PM

i understand your arguement...just think you are off with discrimination of christian and now race....................it has to do with haves and have nots....that would be economics...not religion or race.

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
3A schools and below not being allowed to have Spring FB. If it is ever challenged that rule would be done away with pretty quick.

yeah they don't play for the fact they don't have the numbers that 5A schools have...........go to spring football and watch what happens to baseball and track in 3A.

rancher

05-06-2011, 08:39 PM

Charter schools play, why not CHRISTIAN Schools. Only one reason just like the 60's DISCRIMINATION. You have the two Strake schools already in 5A, what is the problem? The classic gov. school monolopy answer a failed system and dumb down everyone.

Txbroadcaster

05-06-2011, 09:46 PM

NastySlot

05-06-2011, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by rancher
Charter schools play, why not CHRISTIAN Schools. Only one reason just like the 60's DISCRIMINATION. You have the two Strake schools already in 5A, what is the problem? The classic gov. school monolopy answer a failed system and dumb down everyone.

what...first of all one is strake...but they are both Jesuit.......discrimination where does that come from?

you are really starting to lose me...........monopoly? failed system? dumb down?

UIL is not the only academic and athletic league...TAPPS is a great league.....system seems to working for the majority of the state....and the tax payers....dumb down got me I don't have answer cause I don't understand dumb down.

you gripe about how public schools are funded and run yet you side with this clown Patrick when he speaks for a his selected few?

mwynn05

05-07-2011, 02:38 PM

If you live in the zone of an "unacceptable" (it might have to be 2 consecutive yrs) school you are actually allowed to transfer with no transfer fee to an academically acceptable school. Dont make arguments when you dont know the rules

bolshavik

05-07-2011, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by mwynn05
If you live in the zone of an "unacceptable" (it might have to be 2 consecutive yrs) school you are actually allowed to transfer with no transfer fee to an academically acceptable school. Dont make arguments when you dont know the rules

Who are you talking to? Also, I guess it is acceptable to you that someone has to wait two years to transfer? Also, lets look at academically acceptable vs Exemplerary. Is Southlake merely acceptable? How about Highland park?

You people are idiots if all you are thinking about is athletics.

Ernest T Bass

05-07-2011, 02:50 PM

Basically, this would the equivilent of the NFL deciding that the NFC West doesn't have to follow a salary cap, while the rest of the NFL still does.

LH Panther Mom

05-07-2011, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Who are you talking to? Also, I guess it is acceptable to you that someone has to wait two years to transfer? Also, lets look at academically acceptable vs Exemplerary. Is Southlake merely acceptable? How about Highland park?

You people are idiots if all you are thinking about is athletics.
You're the one that seems all for this. And in case you weren't paying attention, the subject IS regarding athletics!!!!

Who are you calling "you people"? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ernest T Bass

05-07-2011, 03:02 PM

No one's too terribly concerned about the Poetry and Prose competition, which Im sure the privates will dominate from the begining.
Anyone see some correltation between Bolshavik's and Rancher's posts? Kinda follow the same MO, and even make identical arguments. :thinking:

Phil C

05-07-2011, 03:03 PM

If this happens then the way we know Texas HS will be completely different and not for the better overall.

bolshavik

05-07-2011, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
No one's too terribly concerned about the Poetry and Prose competition, which Im sure the privates will dominate from the begining.
Anyone see some correltation between Bolshavik's and Rancher's posts? Kinda follow the same MO, and even make identical arguments. :thinking:

Yeah Ernest...You are a frickin genius..lol...

Boys, I know the post is about athletics. I just simply brought up the point that if the right people get hold of this with the right lawyers... There could be very real problems. The problems could come because the argument can be made very easily that instead of "Jim Crow" laws we have built in segregation based on economic conditions. You have a certain percentage of the population that has little chance for upward mobility and therefore do not have equal access to quality education. Maybe nobody will ever take on this fight but if..IF..they did there could be some teeth to it.
Right now as I understand it is that Vouchers would be given to those who want out of poor performing schools and able to pay into a school of their choice. This is a way to circumvent the future problems of potential lawsuits like what I have already mentioned. School funding is a very real problem and this argument is not going to go away.

NastySlot

05-07-2011, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Yeah Ernest...You are a frickin genius..lol...

Boys, I know the post is about athletics. I just simply brought up the point that if the right people get hold of this with the right lawyers... There could be very real problems. The problems could come because the argument can be made very easily that instead of "Jim Crow" laws we have built in segregation based on economic conditions. You have a certain percentage of the population that has little chance for upward mobility and therefore do not have equal access to quality education. Maybe nobody will ever take on this fight but if..IF..they did there could be some teeth to it.
Right now as I understand it is that Vouchers would be given to those who want out of poor performing schools and able to pay into a school of their choice. This is a way to circumvent the future problems of potential lawsuits like what I have already mentioned. School funding is a very real problem and this argument is not going to go away.

your representives have no clue what they are doing....the "Jim Crow"......situation that your talking about was supposed to be taken care with their "Robin Hood" financing....you do know what that is right? Those districts like the two you mention don't get to spend all their tax money on their own kids...they have to share it with property poor districts.

Guys like Patrick are a joke.

OldNavy

05-07-2011, 07:18 PM

Schools can only participate in UIL if they conform to UIL rules. Why do you supose that private schools don't have the best teams in the state right now when they don't have to conform to UIL rules?

Are there rules under the UIL that would make it more advantagious for private schools to follow UIL rules they don't have to follow now?

I am not being argumentative, I just don't think I understand how UIL participation would make private schools suddenly dominate when they are not now.

rancher

05-07-2011, 07:32 PM

Guys like Sen. Patrick are in tune with the way the majority of Texans think. Look at the numbers in the house and sen. after the last election. Wait until 2012 it will be worse for the dem. party. Lets see how this leg. session plays out, last I looked today, had the second reading of loser pays tort reform.

By the way better start looking at train coming down the track call abolish the property tax. It will be on the ballot in three states soon and the movement is getting a big head of steam. Property Taxes, an ATM for the Government.

NastySlot

05-07-2011, 10:51 PM

Guys like Patrick get into politics cause they want to line their pockets....starts with campaign contributions and leads to post elections perks ( oh wow rancher those in education are frown on for getting perks).....guys like Patrick represent themselves and their higher than mighty buddies.....they see being an elected official as easy money.

Patrick's from Maryland what does he know?

LH Panther Mom

05-08-2011, 07:00 AM

Senator Patrick is the same one that tried to get the State to force the UIL to allow Cornerstone Christian into the UIL. And that was after they were banned from TAPPS for violations. Did TAPPS ever lift that ban? I find it ironic that Cornerstone in once again pushing for this. Oh, and people - read up on this! Patrick has also stated that for now it is not football or basketball, but he expects to add that bill in 3-4 years. :rolleyes:

I would love to have the funds to be able to send my kids to private school. I probably would continue to send them to public school...just would love to have the funds. :p Parents of those kids are fully aware, when they make the decision, that they are paying school taxes. And so are those that are home schooled. What gets my goat is the thought that public school is not academically good enough for their children, yet they want to be included WITH the public school kids in athletics and UIL competition? :hand: :hand:

Wonder how much the Church or Pastor Hagee contributes to Patrick's campaign. :thinking: :thinking:

Emerson1

05-08-2011, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by OldNavy
Schools can only participate in UIL if they conform to UIL rules. Why do you supose that private schools don't have the best teams in the state right now when they don't have to conform to UIL rules?
Because they play in TAPPS and no one cares about that league. Very few elite players are going to leave a public school where they play against good competition to go play crappy competition.

You're logic is completely wrong.

bigwood33

05-08-2011, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by rancher
Guys like Sen. Patrick are in tune with the way the majority of Texans think. Look at the numbers in the house and sen. after the last election. Wait until 2012 it will be worse for the dem. party. Lets see how this leg. session plays out, last I looked today, had the second reading of loser pays tort reform.

By the way better start looking at train coming down the track call abolish the property tax. It will be on the ballot in three states soon and the movement is getting a big head of steam. Property Taxes, an ATM for the Government.
You are a WAAAY out in left field if you think that MOST Texans feel this way. I have been virtually a straight ticket Republican for my entire adult life and rarely vote for a Democrat but you could not me more wrong about this issue. Uneducated voters might not see an issue with this but ANYONE who has really given this issue any rational thought sees the problems associated with opening the doors to private schools. I have called my State Rep and loudly voiced my opposition to this and I encourage everyone else to do the same. BTW, they also pay attention to letters.

bolshavik

05-08-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by NastySlot
your representives have no clue what they are doing....the "Jim Crow"......situation that your talking about was supposed to be taken care with their "Robin Hood" financing....you do know what that is right? Those districts like the two you mention don't get to spend all their tax money on their own kids...they have to share it with property poor districts.

Guys like Patrick are a joke.

First off...These are NOT my representitives. You are assuming allot here. All I have done is simply say "if the right people with the right lawyers get ahold of this it could be trouble". If you want I can type that S-L-O-W-E-R for you. I have not said that I support Patrick or privates in the UIL. Im just saying this stuff has some teeth to it if in the right hands.
Also, yes..Robin hood was passed to try to make a more level educational playing field (if you will) but it hasn't worked and the gap between the haves and have nots it widening and will become a major problem going forward.

NastySlot

05-08-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by bolshavik
First off...These are NOT my representitives. You are assuming allot here. All I have done is simply say "if the right people with the right lawyers get ahold of this it could be trouble". If you want I can type that S-L-O-W-E-R for you. I have not said that I support Patrick or privates in the UIL. Im just saying this stuff has some teeth to it if in the right hands.
Also, yes..Robin hood was passed to try to make a more level educational playing field (if you will) but it hasn't worked and the gap between the haves and have nots it widening and will become a major problem going forward.

the gap is widing? I live in a property rich district and it sends millions away.....if you were to look at our facilities,teacher pay etc. you'd ask the same why....we could use it here...........and not be fooled property rich doesn't translate to everyone or even half the people in that being wealthy or anywhere close to it.......we have quite a few low socio-eco and minority(hispanic) sub pops..in this district.

You don't have to type any slower...maybe just state while you don't 100% agree with Patrick or his kind.....you do see some validitiy to what he's spewing.......that would help from assuming he represents your view.

I will note this while we don't have the finest facilities or highest paid teachers in our area....our adminstration has done well and our teachers and students do very well also.

Ernest T Bass

05-08-2011, 12:02 PM

The widening gap has a helluva lot more to do with homes, families, and communities than it does with schools and teachers. I know as a teacher and coach that the vast majority of the kids I get are going to succeed or fail in life regardless of their scholastic experience, and it's going to mostly depend on their home/community experience. The school can have an impact on how well they succeed or how badly they fail by how well they are prepared for the waiting world, but the ultimate outcome is decided before I get them.
But, there are a few that I know I can be the difference for. There are a few that their scholastic, and yes athletic, experience will determine the difference between failure and success; and just like the parable of the starfish, for those kids, it makes ALL the difference. THAT is why the business-minded/results-based approach to education will never work. Return-investment=profit won't work with kids unless you're wanting to create a soft caste system. Maybe that's the intent? :thinking:

tog

05-08-2011, 05:22 PM

the main point about all of this voucher mess is

it isn't the schools and teachers

it is the clientele and lack of parents that makes the clientele what it is

so the parent that "cares" and wants to send their kids to the "better" school with the other kids that have parents that actually make their kids act right and try

meanwhile
the public schools die on the vine with no mentor kids showing how it is supposed to be done

NastySlot

05-08-2011, 05:45 PM

vouchers.....tax dollars going to support private schools is that how it works?

we can't even give public schools enough money now and we re going to use tax money to help out the funding private of schools.........am I way off on this?

rancher

05-08-2011, 10:39 PM

School choice is gaining new momentum, and one of the biggest political breakthroughs came this week in Indiana. Governor Mitch Daniels signed legislation Thursday that includes far-reaching reforms in teacher assessment and tenure, as well the most ambitious voucher program in memory. Under the new law, the state will provide 7,500 publicly financed scholarships of up to $4,500 a year to Hoosier elementary school kids who have been in public schools for the last two semesters and then want to attend another school, public or private. That scholarship number rises to 15,000 in the second year, with no cap in the third year and beyond. High school students can also qualify for a voucher of up to 90% of the state public school support, which varies by school district. Soon headed to Texas, why are the educrats so afraid?

SHSBulldog00

05-08-2011, 11:45 PM

John Paul II will have a field day in Baseball.

Any of these Private school's good in other sports?

cotulla

05-09-2011, 08:40 AM

rancher - wait til your little suzy or johnny works his tail off, is in a state championship game and then gets beat by XYZ Athletic factory. what will your excuse be then? what law will you want changed then?

why are feesball coaches so concerned? because their livelyhood is based on winning/losing. yet, they will line up on friday nights and play against teams that are playing by a different set of rules for that district, area, regional, state championship game.

did those private school kids all pass their classes?
how many hours last week did they practice?
the list goes on and on...

an unlevel playing field!

here's what you will see if all this passes.
+/- 18 UIL football state championships
UIL Public School division
UIL Private School division

Why not? Legislation says all schools will be members of UIL. Doesn't say they all have to play in the same division now does it?

Bolshavik - i get your point about Southlake and HP. Yes, there are differences... Yet, what is keeping the parent of a child in Dallas ISD who's child goes to South Oak Cliff High School, pack up and move to Highland Park? This is America... last I checked I could live where I chose to live.

scrub c

05-09-2011, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by rancher
Soon headed to Texas, why are the educrats so afraid?

bad idea...

I'm not too worried. I think I know what would happen as a result of the Indiana thing... A bunch MORE sub-par charter/private schools opening up competing for that state dollar... I don't think its a good thing, but at the same time I'm not worried.
We have a charter in our small town, they even won the state 6man championship. (they may have had one kid that could have got on the field for us - but I doubt it)
Big difference is academics...
we have had numerous kids leave here making D's go over there and make A's come back here for whatever reason and make D's again... and yes these are FACTS!!!

we once had a student (no lie - struggle to pass here), leave and go to the charter and become the valedictorian... how does that happen??? better teacher over there I guess

bolshavik

05-09-2011, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by cotulla
rancher - wait til your little suzy or johnny works his tail off, is in a state championship game and then gets beat by XYZ Athletic factory. what will your excuse be then? what law will you want changed then?

why are feesball coaches so concerned? because their livelyhood is based on winning/losing. yet, they will line up on friday nights and play against teams that are playing by a different set of rules for that district, area, regional, state championship game.

did those private school kids all pass their classes?
how many hours last week did they practice?
the list goes on and on...

an unlevel playing field!

here's what you will see if all this passes.
+/- 18 UIL football state championships
UIL Public School division
UIL Private School division

Why not? Legislation says all schools will be members of UIL. Doesn't say they all have to play in the same division now does it?

Bolshavik - i get your point about Southlake and HP. Yes, there are differences... Yet, what is keeping the parent of a child in Dallas ISD who's child goes to South Oak Cliff High School, pack up and move to Highland Park? This is America... last I checked I could live where I chose to live.

I cant and will never be able to afford to move into Southlake or HP and I make pretty good money. Im not saying at all I agree with Privates in a Public league, Im just saying that if they choose to fight with the right angle there could be some validity to the argument in a court of law. And there are two seperate issues here. 1 is Pivates in the UIL. The 2nd is great disparity in the quality of education for inner city and or poor districts vs Rich districts. If a smart person chooses to fight this based on inequality then it has some teeth. You know some Repubs want a voucher system anyway so that is a way to tie it all together. Also...UIL NEVER EVER would of let the Jesuit schools in if they didnt fear already that they would get their butts beat in court. So instead of getting embarrassed in court they allowed just the JESUITS in...Guys...Im just saying that this could all go down..Not that I want it to..Just saying it sure could.

Ernest T Bass

05-09-2011, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by bolshavik
So instead of getting embarrassed in court they allowed just the JESUITS in...Guys...Im just saying that this could all go down..Not that I want it to..Just saying it sure could.

It wasn't so much about embarassment as it was allowing them in on the UIL's terms. If the Jesuits had won in court, the UIL's doors would have been kicked open and Patrick's wet dream would have come true. But, by allowing them in, the UIL could set laws that would prevent them from having to allow other privates in. I don't see how those laws can simply be bypassed.

pancho villa

05-09-2011, 09:51 AM

If you don't like the public school your kid has to go to MOVE! I live where I wanted my children to attend school. As for the private and home school kids let then in(UIL). They are not very good athletes, or students anyway. The only parents that want vouchers are the ones with wimpy kids, or the parents are losers and have to live in crappy places!

Black_Magic

05-09-2011, 09:58 AM

You cant have Private schools in the UIL because they dont have to abide by the same rules. That is a big reason they go to private schools in the first place. most want the kids to be religiously educated as well. Thats just fine. But you cant take tax money and send it to a christian school. You cant take tax money and send it to a muslim school.

If you want to your kid to go to a south lake school then move there. If you want to send your kid to a private school then pony up the money and do it.

I think we should solve our education funding problem and other government funding short falls in this state and country by returning to the tax rates from 1954-56 times. its when we had great prosperity and built great schools.. Back then the top marginal tax rate was 90% for every dime you made over $100,000 a year. ( now I would raise that to $1,000,000) but I think you would solve the problems we face by returning to the tax and education policies of the mid 1950s..

bolshavik

05-09-2011, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by pancho villa
If you don't like the public school your kid has to go to MOVE! I live where I wanted my children to attend school. As for the private and home school kids let then in(UIL). They are not very good athletes, or students anyway. The only parents that want vouchers are the ones with wimpy kids, or the parents are losers and have to live in crappy places!

That sounds good in principle Panco Villa but look at it from this argument here. Single parent with 0 car rides the city bus to work. Last I check the city busses do not go all the way out to the suburbs or out in the country. Single parent cant move out of the transit system and keep their job. There are 0 section 8 houses in Southlake or HP or Westlake etc...When lawyers start down that road of talking educational inequality the last thing to cross a judge's mind will be fair UIL competition.

bolshavik

05-09-2011, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
You cant have Private schools in the UIL because they dont have to abide by the same rules. That is a big reason they go to private schools in the first place. most want the kids to be religiously educated as well. Thats just fine. But you cant take tax money and send it to a christian school. You cant take tax money and send it to a muslim school.

If you want to your kid to go to a south lake school then move there. If you want to send your kid to a private school then pony up the money and do it.

I think we should solve our education funding problem and other government funding short falls in this state and country by returning to the tax rates from 1954-56 times. its when we had great prosperity and built great schools.. Back then the top marginal tax rate was 90% for every dime you made over $100,000 a year. ( now I would raise that to $1,000,000) but I think you would solve the problems we face by returning to the tax and education policies of the mid 1950s..

All any private school has to do is sit their kids out of VARSITY competition their freshman year and the kid can live anywhere and have varsity eligibility Soph - SR year.

pancho villa

05-09-2011, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by bolshavik
That sounds good in principle Panco Villa but look at it from this argument here. Single parent with 0 car rides the city bus to work. Last I check the city busses do not go all the way out to the suburbs or out in the country. Single parent cant move out of the transit system and keep their job. There are 0 section 8 houses in Southlake or HP or Westlake etc...When lawyers start down that road of talking educational inequality the last thing to cross a judge's mind will be fair UIL competition.

That is their problem!!!! Get a better job! Don't get divorced, don't have children out of wedlock.

pancho villa

05-09-2011, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by pancho villa
That is their problem!!!! Get a better job! Don't get divorced, don't have children out of wedlock.

Once again someone wanting me to pay for all the LAZY and stupid people in the world. We already have FREE public education now all the numnuts want more for free!

And Rancher is wimp!

bolshavik

05-09-2011, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by pancho villa
That is their problem!!!! Get a better job! Don't get divorced, don't have children out of wedlock.

Yeah, you know as well as I that it don't work that way. When you are talking about the economically disadvantaged it will not play out that way. By the way, all these cuts to school funding..Hey, you dont like it go get a better job, get a better degree, stop playing field general etc...

Boys this voucher deal is catching on and you knuckle heads that voted Republican/Perry etc.. better hold on to your rear ends. They want Vouchers for their buddies and want to privatize education.

cotulla

05-09-2011, 10:24 AM

More of the same rhetoric that got us in this situation... everyone wants a free hand out.

bolshavik - i get that you're playing devil's advocate. i really do... but the problem i'm having with your argument is the sense of entitlement that is wrapped around your argument.

why are there differences between SLC and SOC? I know the only difference is an L and an O. HA

why are they both entitled to the same quality education?

Jesuits - true that the only reason they are in UIL is because of the fear that they would win in court and flood gates would open. remember they had no viable option when they got in UIL. TAPPS would not let them in because they were too big by TAPPS definitions, same for TCIL and SPC. UIL bylaws state that the only way a "private" school can enter is if they are not eligible and in good standing for any other athletic association. The good standing is what keeps Cornerstone out.

True that Jesuits live by the same UIL rules as all the ISD's do... true that they are getting by the attendance zone rules by having 9th and 10th graders play sub-varsity during those years.

If it passes - we will adjust. As an American I have a choice. If I don't like continually losing to private schools... i can go work for one right?

one last sidekick: (Rep. Garza) -Has companion bill in House and will champion SB 1214 on the floor.

He is quoted as saying: "The main thing is to get the UIL open to all Texas children - - - It is one step at a time."

My reply - shouldn't all Texas children be tested by the new STARR (old TAKS) then? shouldn't they all be allowed special education services?

Nice to see that all these legislators see the value of extra-curricular activities! NOT

pancho villa

05-09-2011, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by bolshavik
Yeah, you know as well as I that it don't work that way. When you are talking about the economically disadvantaged it will not play out that way. By the way, all these cuts to school funding..Hey, you dont like it go get a better job, get a better degree, stop playing field general etc...

Boys this voucher deal is catching on and you knuckle heads that voted Republican/Perry etc.. better hold on to your rear ends. They want Vouchers for their buddies and want to privatize education.

Good then they will be able to pay teachers what they are worth.

I am glad my kids are out of school so they don't have to go to school or play aginst private school wimps!