TAKS Question for Non-Educators

[GreenMonster]

I have read through several posts on the TAKS thread opened by ETB and I noticed that several of you pointed out your personal disdain for the test. So here's my question, if parents hate it, kids hate it, and educators hate it why will our state be spending half a billion dollars on it over the next several years? Because of the lawmakers wasting our tax dollars, that's why. Call your local state representatives and urge them to stop the insanity that is our state mandated testing system and urge them to get that legislation out of the classroom. Since the inception of the state mandated test Texas students have been in a free fall in their rankings when compared to other state's students in college entrance exam scores. The only way to stop this free fall is to get back to educating our students the correct way and not the way some lawmaker in Austin thinks is the way to do it even though said lawmaker has never taught in a classroom.

[WildTexan972]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I have read through several posts on the TAKS thread opened by ETB and I noticed that several of you pointed out your personal disdain for the test. So here's my question, if parents hate it, kids hate it, and educators hate it why will our state be spending half a billion dollars on it over the next several years? Because of the lawmakers wasting our tax dollars, that's why. Call your local state representatives and urge them to stop the insanity that is our state mandated testing system and urge them to get that legislation out of the classroom. Since the inception of the state mandated test Texas students have been in a free fall in their rankings when compared to other state's students in college entrance exam scores. The only way to stop this free fall is to get back to educating our students the correct way and not the way some lawmaker in Austin thinks is the way to do it even though said lawmaker has never taught in a classroom.

some educators claim to hate the test but the teacher UNIONS love the test and that is why it won't go away soon....they can manipulate the results to claim those "EXEMPLARY" statuses to post over the doors of schools and then claim that means teachers are doing a good job.....any monkey can read out of a taks text on what to teach and many teachers use AIDES to do so since it is so easy.....hence running up the cost of running schools to the ISD but not providing more value to the students....


fire all the aides...cut back on librarians....cut back on asst principals and counselors.....get back to TEACHING instead of getting thru the material for reporting back to the state....

[Ernest T Bass]

He figured us out! By gawd he's too smart for us! Even with our imaginary teachers union he keeps talking about.
Wonder if he knows that George W Bush' s No Child Left Behind is the reason for the implementation of the TAKS test, and now the STAAR test?

[44 Magnum]

We don't have Teacher "UNIONS" in Texas! We do have teacher associations who send people to Austin to lobby for what is best for students. Big Difference!

I can honestly say that I do not know one teacher that looks forward to TAKS testing. Teachers do have to "play the game" of high stakes testing because of the bad publicity a "low performing" rating can bring a school district and/or campus.

I also hate people that spew off at the mouth when they don't have a clue about education. Quit embarrassing yourself (WildTexan972)!

[runtowin]

The TAKS test is accountability for taxpayers wanting to see that their money is being used appropriately. It isn't for the kids, teachers or parents. It's for those that think paying taxes to schools is an inconvenience and they want proof that it is worth it.

[PPHSfan]

If that were the case, the last place I would be seeking accountability for my school tax dollars would be standardized testing. I would rather see a financial report from the district. If I'm not happy with the level of education there are plenty of avenues to pursue.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
He figured us out! By gawd he's too smart for us! Even with our imaginary teachers union he keeps talking about.
Wonder if he knows that George W Bush' s No Child Left Behind is the reason for the implementation of the TAKS test, and now the STAAR test?

There was some tests done in the 80's that if you didn't pass you didn't graduate. what was those test called?

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by Pick6
There was some tests done in the 80's that if you didn't pass you didn't graduate. what was those test called?

They were called finals. Lol

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Pick6
There was some tests done in the 80's that if you didn't pass you didn't graduate. what was those test called?

We've gone from the TABS, to the TEAMS, to the TAAS, to the TAKS, and now the STAAR. The TAKS test is the work of the NCLB program. As Martin Lawrence and Will Smith would say, once the federal government got involved, that's when "s--- got real".

[Pick6]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
They were called finals. Lol

Wrong

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
TAAS

That's what we took.

[runtowin]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
If that were the case, the last place I would be seeking accountability for my school tax dollars would be standardized testing. I would rather see a financial report from the district. If I'm not happy with the level of education there are plenty of avenues to pursue.

They don't want to see the results, they want a school rating!

Exemplary
Recognized
Acceptable

[Ernest T Bass]

School rating has to do with much more than TAKS scores. In fact, the school Im currently at is in the process of dropping from recognized to academically unacceptable, all in the course of 3 years, while TAKS scores have actually increased slightly.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
School rating has to do with much more than TAKS scores. In fact, the school Im currently at is in the process of dropping from recognized to academically unacceptable, all in the course of 3 years, while TAKS scores have actually increased slightly.

That is my understanding, also, ETB and the ratings are skewed by many other factors which carry considerable weighting.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
That is my understanding, also, ETB and the ratings are skewed by many other factors which carry considerable weighting.

Yes, for example, graduation rates and how certain subpopulations perform on the tests are big ones. So, if your campus is 10% hispanic, but 70% of them fail the TAKS test, that will kill your rating, even thought it's less than 5% of your total student body.
For us, it's graduation rate. When a student enters your HS, you are responsible for their graduating within 4 years until they officially enroll at another campus and your campus is notified of it. So, if a student moves to Mexico their 11th grade year, that counts as a drop out against your graduation rate. For us, the class that entered in 2007(grad class of 2011) is expected to be below 75% graduation, which is an astounding number. That's what's killing us.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes, for example, graduation rates and how certain subpopulations perform on the tests are big ones. So, if your campus is 10% hispanic, but 70% of them fail the TAKS test, that will kill your rating, even thought it's less than 5% of your total student body.
For us, it's graduation rate. When a student enters your HS, you are responsible for their graduating within 4 years until they officially enroll at another campus and your campus is notified of it. So, if a student moves to Mexico their 11th grade year, that counts as a drop out against your graduation rate. For us, the class that entered in 2007(grad class of 2011) is expected to be below 75% graduation, which is an astounding number. That's what's killing us.

Performance of Special needs students can also be in the mix. I understand there is a way for schools to opt them out of the rating evals, though.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Performance of Special needs students can also be in the mix. I understand there is a way for schools to opt them out of the rating evals, though.

Yes, there are different levels of "special needs" TAKS test. Their scores are factored differently, and there are certain number you can exclude from testing(downs syndrome, CP, etc...). But, those that you exclude from testing count against you anyway, just not as much.
Basically, I think the school rating formula is:
Test scores + graduation rate - special ed exclusions / fairy dust x shame=school rating

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Yes, there are different levels of "special needs" TAKS test. Their scores are factored differently, and there are certain number you can exclude from testing(downs syndrome, CP, etc...). But, those that you exclude from testing count against you anyway, just not as much.
Basically, I think the school rating formula is:
Test scores + graduation rate - special ed exclusions / fairy dust x shame=school rating

In years past, I have served on both District and Campus Improvement committees, and one of my biggest shocks was to find out about all the factors used by the state for rating districts and individual schools. I would like to see the process more reflective of the overall student body's performance with perhaps some asterisks to indicate less than acceptable performance in some of the currently weighted areas without penalizing those students in any way.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
In years past, I have served on both District and Campus Improvement committees

Good gawd, man! Did you lose a bet?

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Good gawd, man! Did you lose a bet?

LOL--Sometimes I think I should have "welched"...:D

[Saggy Aggie]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
So, if your campus is 10% hispanic, but 70% of them fail the TAKS test, that will kill your rating, even thought it's less than 5% of your total student body.
. Can you explain this math to me one more time?

[Ernest T Bass]

My math may be off a bit, but the gist is that your overall passing rate can be extremely high but a low performing subpop will destroy your rating.

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
My math may be off a bit, but the gist is that your overall passing rate can be extremely high but a low performing subpop will destroy your rating.

Your math was off by 2% on an answer that should have been 7% which means you missed the correct answer by 35% which means you probably can't pass the math part of the TAKS test. :D

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Your math was off by 2% on an answer that should have been 7% which means you missed the correct answer by 35% which means you probably can't pass the math part of the TAKS test. :D

no wonder our kids cant pass the TAKS, look at out educators:D

[Ernest T Bass]

That's why I teach history.
Honestly, Im suprised I got that close.

[Ernest T Bass]

One thing needs to be made clear; the TAKS test is not an easy test. It's really not. The TAAS test was, but it served its purpose. Its purpose was to make sure that every student who graduated from a public high school in Texas had at least the same minimum basic knowledge and skills; and it was very basic. In my opinion, we need to go back to a simplier, more basic test so that not nearly as much emphasis will be placed on it. Thataway, we can still ensure that kids all kids are graduating with the ability to read, write, and do some basic math; while still giving teachers the freedom to freakin' TEACH, and teach kids to THINK. The way it is now, the majority of educational energy has to be spent on TAKS b/c it's not easy and you're judged on how the lowest of the students perform.
Go back to a more basic test, spend much less money on it, place less emphasis on it, still serve the same purpose, let teachers do their jobs.
Thank you. ETB in 2012!

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
One thing needs to be made clear; the TAKS test is not an easy test. It's really not. The TAAS test was, but it served its purpose. Its purpose was to make sure that every student who graduated from a public high school in Texas had at least the same minimum basic knowledge and skills; and it was very basic. In my opinion, we need to go back to a simplier, more basic test so that not nearly as much emphasis will be placed on it. Thataway, we can still ensure that kids all kids are graduating with the ability to read, write, and do some basic math; while still giving teachers the freedom to freakin' TEACH, and teach kids to THINK. The way it is now, the majority of educational energy has to be spent on TAKS b/c it's not easy and you're judged on how the lowest of the students perform.
Go back to a more basic test, spend much less money on it, place less emphasis on it, still serve the same purpose, let teachers do their jobs.
Thank you. ETB in 2012!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/Smilies/well_done.gif

[jason]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
One thing needs to be made clear; the TAKS test is not an easy test. It's really not. The TAAS test was, but it served its purpose. Its purpose was to make sure that every student who graduated from a public high school in Texas had at least the same minimum basic knowledge and skills; and it was very basic. In my opinion, we need to go back to a simplier, more basic test so that not nearly as much emphasis will be placed on it. Thataway, we can still ensure that kids all kids are graduating with the ability to read, write, and do some basic math; while still giving teachers the freedom to freakin' TEACH, and teach kids to THINK. The way it is now, the majority of educational energy has to be spent on TAKS b/c it's not easy and you're judged on how the lowest of the students perform.
Go back to a more basic test, spend much less money on it, place less emphasis on it, still serve the same purpose, let teachers do their jobs.
Thank you. ETB in 2012!

i got a copy of the TAKS that was given in july 2006 and i dont think i could pass it now....maybe when i was in high school it would have been easier (i had a 4.0gpa) but NOW, there is no way....

i think i took the taas in order to graduate...

[LH Panther Mom]

"Back in the day" (y'all remember I'm old...) we took Achievement Tests. I don't remember it causing all that much drama. :nerd:

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
"Back in the day" (y'all remember I'm old...) we took Achievement Tests. I don't remember it causing all that much drama. :nerd:

That's before education became a "business", and it was actually about kids. Those days are long gone, Im afraid.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
That's before education became a "business", and it was actually about kids. Those days are long gone, Im afraid.
Ha! Maybe so! I also seem to remember that kids actually got retained if they didn't have the grades to go to the next grade. :eek: :eek: Yes, believe it or not! Oh, and if you acted up, chances are you'd get licks. And it was just as likely to be in the hall, with no witnesses, by the teacher that you acted up in their class. :thinking: :thinking:

Heck, my Mom even sent kids, with their desks, out into the hall to sit if they wanted to screw off during class. AND...they'd actually get a ZERO for that day's classwork/test. :1omg!: :1omg!:

And you know what? You didn't have the parents up at the school whining and crying because Little Johnny got licks/sent to the hall. Kind of seems coincidental, huh? :thinking:

[Ernest T Bass]

LHPM for School Board President!!!

By the way, over the next two years, Texas will pay over $600,000,000(that's 600 MILLION) to England-based Pearson Education Measurment for the next round of state testing.
See the results of "business-minded" and "results-based" education?

[Old LB]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Ha! Maybe so! I also seem to remember that kids actually got retained if they didn't have the grades to go to the next grade. :eek: :eek: Yes, believe it or not! Oh, and if you acted up, chances are you'd get licks. And it was just as likely to be in the hall, with no witnesses, by the teacher that you acted up in their class. :thinking: :thinking:

Heck, my Mom even sent kids, with their desks, out into the hall to sit if they wanted to screw off during class. AND...they'd actually get a ZERO for that day's classwork/test. :1omg!: :1omg!:

And you know what? You didn't have the parents up at the school whining and crying because Little Johnny got licks/sent to the hall. Kind of seems coincidental, huh? :thinking:

If you got it at school you got worse when you got home. My dad would go to prison this day and time for the whoopins we got but usually only took once.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Old LB
If you got it at school you got worse when you got home. My dad would go to prison this day and time for the whoopins we got but usually only took once.
Oh yeah! And since both my parents were teachers, and my dad a coach, they almost always knew before we even got home that one of my brothers had gotten in trouble! :D

[Old LB]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Oh yeah! And since both my parents were teachers, and my dad a coach, they almost always knew before we even got home that one of my brothers had gotten in trouble! :D

You poor soul! :doh:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass

Wonder if he knows that George W Bush' s No Child Left Behind is the reason for the implementation of the TAKS test, and now the STAAR test?

Get your facts straight. The late Kennedy wrote that piece of legislation, not Bush!

I am curious about one thing:
why CAN'T teachers teach? Why ARE teachers teaching for only the TAKS? I see complaints about the test all the time. What is stopping any teacher from providing a well-rounded education in any subject or in any grade, and actually challenging our kids to "think"?
Could it be the NEA and TEA are preventing this because they are scared that testing might poorly reflect on those they represent? Maybe administrators pushed for TAKS only curriculum to ensure the dollars will continue to roll in?
I wonder if teachers are pawns in this battle, but have become mouth-pieces in this contentious debate because they dare not rock the boat.

Why don't teachers vocalize against their parent associations(unions) and/or administrators? Will you get fired if you do? I don't know... hence the questions.
Hopefully a couple of them will provide some food for thought.

I do agree with LHPM wholeheartedly about at least one thing. Discipline is poor in most schools, because this "new age discipline" hasn't worked and never will. Bunch of bleeding hearts have done their job to help screw up our scruels...:rolleyes:

Great topic GM.:cool:

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by jason
i got a copy of the TAKS that was given in july 2006 and i dont think i could pass it now....maybe when i was in high school it would have been easier (i had a 4.0gpa) but NOW, there is no way....

i think i took the taas in order to graduate...

Same here on both counts. Seems the teaching methods are all out of whack now. I was tutoring my little sis on Algebra the other day, and she's working on polynomial factoring, and the teacher provided some crazy methods of solving the problems. They work, but they don't develop the mind. You shouldn't have to plug coefficients into a chart in order to know that a polynomial is a perfect square; you should be able to recognize it pretty quickly. Failing to develop that cognizant ability in the students is one of the downfalls I'm seeing. At least she's only in 8th grade; she's got plenty of time to pull it together. At the college where I work, I deal with recent high school grads who know far less than she does as a 14 year old. :doh:

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Get your facts straight. The late Kennedy wrote that piece of legislation, not Bush!

I am curious about one thing:
why CAN'T teachers teach? Why ARE teachers teaching for only the TAKS? I see complaints about the test all the time. What is stopping any teacher from providing a well-rounded education in any subject or in any grade, and actually challenging our kids to "think"?
Could it be the NEA and TEA are preventing this because they are scared that testing might poorly reflect on those they represent? Maybe administrators pushed for TAKS only curriculum to ensure the dollars will continue to roll in?
I wonder if teachers are pawns in this battle, but have become mouth-pieces in this contentious debate because they dare not rock the boat.

Why don't teachers vocalize against their parent associations(unions) and/or administrators? Will you get fired if you do? I don't know... hence the questions.
Hopefully a couple of them will provide some food for thought.

I do agree with LHPM wholeheartedly about at least one thing. Discipline is poor in most schools, because this "new age discipline" hasn't worked and never will. Bunch of bleeding hearts have done their job to help screw up our scruels...:rolleyes:

Great topic GM.:cool:

Wow! You are one confused fella.
First, No Child Left Behind was DEFINITELY Bush legislation. Zero question about that. Dont you remember when he asked "Is our children learning"?
Now, the reason why we have to teach all TAKS, all the time is b/c the TAKS test is hard and with our ever changing demography, the challenge is constantly increasing.
The reason there aren't protests in the street about this is most educators realize that there is a need for a standardized test of some sort. There has to be a way of guaranteing that a kid who graduates from Sinton HS has the same minimum basic set of skills and knowledge as a Southlake Carroll grad. Testing is the only way to do that. But, the test keeps changing. This is part of the movement to approach education from a "results-based" mindset. I keep saying, it works in business, but not in education.
But, you've got the TEA's stance backwards. They only change the test when kids start doing well. WHenever a new test is introduced, kids fail it miserably. So, the TEA has to pay people large sums of money to go to campuses and investigate to see why so many kids are failing, to write ciricumlum, put on professional development workshops, etc...and they can't keep doing that if kids are passing their tests.
The last part of this, is money. Evidently you missed the part where I said that over $600 million will be spent on testing over the next 2 years, and that's just to one company. Don't forget ciricumlum writers, TEA officials, added administration, etc....There's a ton of money that changes hands in the name of testing, and while I don't have the evidence to back it up, you're not going to convince me that no one in Austin has a stake in that money.
And yes, discipline sucks now! That goes back to the parents, which is where EVERYTHING starts from. We need to start giving parents and legislators "Exemplary, Recognized, Acceptable, Unaceptable" ratings, too.
In the end, the overall problem is people who know nothing about education making decisions regarding education. The calls for results-based education have been heard and are being answered. Here's betting, no guaranteeing, you won't like the results.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Same here on both counts. Seems the teaching methods are all out of whack now. I was tutoring my little sis on Algebra the other day, and she's working on polynomial factoring, and the teacher provided some crazy methods of solving the problems. They work, but they don't develop the mind. You shouldn't have to plug coefficients into a chart in order to know that a polynomial is a perfect square; you should be able to recognize it pretty quickly. Failing to develop that cognizant ability in the students is one of the downfalls I'm seeing. At least she's only in 8th grade; she's got plenty of time to pull it together. At the college where I work, I deal with recent high school grads who know far less than she does as a 14 year old. :doh:

That's why I liked the TAAS test. It ensured that you could read basic English, comprehend what you read, string together several complete thoughts to form a writting composition, use basic grammar and spelling, and do basic mathmatics up to Algebra 1 and geometry. Didn't ensure that you were college ready, just ensure that you were in a position to contribute to society in some way. So, kids like your sis wouldn't have to spend much time on it, and they could take classes that would prepare them for college. Now, the TAKS is so difficult that all teachers for the most part have to spend the year preparing the students for it and having to cater to the lowest common demoninator in doing so. Then, in the end, the student him or herself has zero responsiblity for their own education.
It's a recipie for failure, but failure keeps people in Austin employed.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Wow! You are one confused fella.
First, No Child Left Behind was DEFINITELY Bush legislation. Zero question about that.

Seriously, ETB did the late Ted Kennedy author or co-author the bill(he might not have been the chief author)? ZERO question? Please...:hand:

Discipline is a major problem in schools and you want to blame ALL PARENTS AND ONLY PARENTS? I take it you don't have kids?
How about bringing back corporal punishment. Give the troublemakers a smack on the bottom. It worked before and will work now.

[Cam]

all this TAKS talk....my kid aces those sob's.....where's the challenge???

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by SintonFan

Discipline is a major problem in schools and you want to blame ALL PARENTS AND ONLY PARENTS? I take it you don't have kids?
How about bringing back corporal punishment. Give the troublemakers a smack on the bottom. It worked before and will work now.

The problem there is a lot of parents won't employ corporal punishment themselves, and thus will not allow the schools to do so either.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
The problem there is a lot of parents won't employ corporal punishment themselves, and thus will not allow the schools to do so either.

This is because of failed leftist ideas.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by SintonFan
This is because of failed leftist ideas.

Discipline isn't mutually exclusive to political ideology. I deal with students from both backgrounds who have absolutely no respect for authority.

[Ernest T Bass]

Corporal punishment was taken out because parents wanted it out.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Corporal punishment was taken out because parents wanted it out.

We have it here.




BEAST

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by BEAST
We have it here.




BEAST

Still a few that have it. fear of lawsuits from parents is what forces most schools to get rid of it.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Discipline isn't mutually exclusive to political ideology. I deal with students from both backgrounds who have absolutely no respect for authority.

That has little to do with what I mentioned. It still is a leftist idea.

[LH Panther Mom]

:foul: :foul: :foul: Don't take a good thread and make me have to shut it down!!!!!