Those Evil Corporations!!!!

[BEAST]

Those evil corps just sit back and take all the money leaving us all broke. Like GE for example, the got a 3.8Billion tax refund check. You'll never guess what they did with it either. They gave it back to the feds. How dare they?




BEAST

[Txbroadcaster]

I am not anti-corporation, but dont pretend they gave it back out of goodness of heart, they did it because it was a PR disaster

[Old LB]

You can't blame people for being upset when these companies avoid paying taxes I guess. On the other hand, these companies are accomplishing exactly what they are supposed to.

Create superior products, hire the best talent available, create the greastest possible return on investment.

I'm glad to hear they returned the money, but being successful is not a crime.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by BEAST
Those evil corps just sit back and take all the money leaving us all broke. Like GE for example, the got a 3.8Billion tax refund check. You'll never guess what they did with it either. They gave it back to the feds. How dare they?




BEAST

So, if I shoplift and get caught, as long as I give it back it's ok?
Someone needs to go to prison for this!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Old LB

I'm glad to hear they returned the money, but being successful is not a crime.

Sure is not, but pay the taxes due on the success just like Joe Average does every year

[Blastoderm55]

Nothing has been returned.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-04-13/ge-refutes-report-on-returning-3-2-billion-tax-refund.html

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
So, if I shoplift and get caught, as long as I give it back it's ok?
Someone needs to go to prison for this!

There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Once again, an assumption that has not been proven.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Once again, an assumption that has not been proven.

Then arrests need to be made and a trials need to be held.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Then arrests need to be made and a trials need to be held.

On what grounds. Arrest them because they took all deductions and allowances allowed by the tax laws.

Do you take advantage of all deductions allowed on your tax return? Probably so.

[Blastoderm55]

Man, GE's annual report is a thing of beauty. The $5.2 billion in declared dividends was down from 2009, but was mostly paid for by that tax refund. GE basically ONLY pays taxes abroad. Bravo!

http://www.ge.com/ar2010/pdf/GE_AR10.pdf

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Man, GE's annual report is a thing of beauty. The $5.2 billion in declared dividends was down from 2009, but was mostly paid for by that tax refund. GE basically ONLY pays taxes abroad. Bravo!

http://www.ge.com/ar2010/pdf/GE_AR10.pdf

Those dividends will be subject to income tax so there will be taxes paid.

[Ernest T Bass]

While I don't know the details, I refuse to believe you can make a $13 billion profit and not only not pay a dime in taxes, but actually get an additional $3.8 billion, honestly.
Yes, I do take advantage of every deduction possible. I have a ranch where damned near everything is deductable; but guess what? Over 25% of my total income STILL stays in DC. So, you're going to have a lot trouble convincing me that you can make a $3.8 billion profit in taxes honestly.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
Those dividends will be subject to income tax so there will be taxes paid.

By shareholders, not the company. And the marginal rate on gains is still very low relative to normal income tax and subject to loopholes. As Warren Buffett stated, most of his income is subject to the capital gain rate which is " less than that of the people who clean his office."

http://money.msn.com/taxes/latest.aspx?post=26d490bd-7317-4f93-8b43-e1da1151ea5f&GT1=33005

[LionFan72]

You are welcome to hire a GE accountant. Well, maybe not, cause we can't afford a congressman.

[nobogey72]

A flat tax may not be feasible, but it sure does look good on paper and in theory.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
While I don't know the details, I refuse to believe you can make a $13 billion profit and not only not pay a dime in taxes, but actually get an additional $3.8 billion, honestly.
Yes, I do take advantage of every deduction possible. I have a ranch where damned near everything is deductable; but guess what? Over 25% of my total income STILL stays in DC. So, you're going to have a lot trouble convincing me that you can make a $3.8 billion profit in taxes honestly.

My point is that if you think it is unfair then change the laws. Don't scream "thief" until someone is actually proven to be a thief.

I would love to have a 25% tax rate. That means I made some pretty good money.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by nobogey72
A flat tax may not be feasible, but it sure does look good on paper and in theory.

The 17% rate proposed by Steve Forbes is appealing for its efficiency, simplicity, and fairness.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
By shareholders, not the company. And the marginal rate on gains is still very low relative to normal income tax and subject to loopholes. As Warren Buffett stated, most of his income is subject to the capital gain rate which is " less than that of the people who clean his office."

http://money.msn.com/taxes/latest.aspx?post=26d490bd-7317-4f93-8b43-e1da1151ea5f&GT1=33005

So change the laws. Quit crying because somebody knows how to take advantage of them.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
So change the laws. Quit crying because somebody knows how to take advantage of them.

Crying? Nah. In awe of the efficiency? Yeah. But sure, let me just write my Congressperson and they'll get right to it just like last time I wrote them. :rolleyes:

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
So change the laws. Quit crying because somebody knows how to take advantage of them.

Im not convinced that laws weren't broken. Definitely needs to be investigated thoroughly.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Crying? Nah. In awe of the efficiency? Yeah. But sure, let me just write my Congressperson and they'll get right to it just like last time I wrote them. :rolleyes:

Then elect a new congressperson.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
Then elect a new congressperson.

I'll add it to the to-do list. :)

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Im not convinced that laws weren't broken. Definitely needs to be investigated thoroughly.

You might want to start with the tax credits GE may have got for being a big supporter of the current admin's environmental policies. Just sayin.:thinking:

[Old&Crusty]

there should be no state or federal income tax levied on any persons or corporations.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Old LB
You can't blame people for being upset when these companies avoid paying taxes I guess. On the other hand, these companies are accomplishing exactly what they are supposed to.

Create superior products, hire the best talent available, create the greastest possible return on investment.

I'm glad to hear they returned the money, but being successful is not a crime. Not when all the jobs they are supposed to create are no longer here in the US.



Does no good to write congressmen because of lobbyist hired by the corporations.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Old&Crusty
there should be no state or federal income tax levied on any persons or corporations.

Prefer a consumption tax? Could work. Don't think it'll happen.

[Old&Crusty]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Prefer a consumption tax? Could work. Don't think it'll happen.

Prefer Tariffs and repealing the 16th amendment.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Old&Crusty
Prefer Tariffs and repealing the 16th amendment.

The U.S. is part of a global economy. Nothing that impedes upon the flow of international trade will pass as legislation. MNCs will see to that.

[Old&Crusty]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
The U.S. is part of a global economy. Nothing that impedes upon the flow of international trade will pass as legislation. MNCs will see to that.

Tariffs do not apply to only foreign products. Tariffs are meant to pay for the use of roads and infrastructure used in the free exchange of products. Legislation is passed all the time that impedes international trade. Try buying or selling to Libya, Iran, North Korea, etc. It's impeded rountinely for political reasons.

Income tax will be difficult to get rid of because since 1913 the government has owned our paychecks. And we know how greedy the government is.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Old&Crusty
Tariffs do not apply to only foreign products. Tariffs are meant to pay for the use of roads and infrastructure used in the free exchange of products. Legislation is passed all the time that impedes international trade. Try buying or selling to Libya, Iran, North Korea, etc. It's impeded rountinely for political reasons.


Indeed, but do you suggest placing tariffs on China or India? That's what I gather from your statement. Yes we restrict trade with nations we see as enemies (Axis of Evil if you will), but I don't think we will ever do the same to strategic partners with market economies similar to ours.

[Old&Crusty]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Indeed, but do you suggest placing tariffs on China or India? That's what I gather from your statement. Yes we restrict trade with nations we see as enemies (Axis of Evil if you will), but I don't think we will ever do the same to strategic partners with market economies similar to ours.

If they use our roads, ports, customs agents, etc to move their products, yes, they pay for it. Are you suggesting the U.S. government take money from my paycheck in the form of income tax to pay for that?

And why do we see these nations as our enemies? Have they attacked us? Why are the countries that did attack us now our friends?

Market econmics is not the issue. Income tax is.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Old&Crusty
If they use our roads, ports, customs agents, etc to move their products, yes, they pay for it. Are you suggesting the U.S. government take money from my paycheck in the form of income tax to pay for that?

And why do we see these nations as our enemies? Have they attacked us? Why are the countries that did attack us now our friends?


Good question. I'm befuddled myself, but our previous leader made it a point to name them as such and our current leader hasn't seen it necessary to change.

For the record, I in no way favor the public subsidizing business, so no, I do not suggest income taxes be used for commercial endevours. However I do not think legislation will be passed that takes the burden from Jack and Jane Taxpayer and passes it to XYZ Corporation. If the tax code were not broken, corporations would be paying their fair share. A flat tax could rid us of the loopholes, including the majority of the beauracracy of the IRS, and create an equitable system for all individual, joint, and commercial income tax filers.

[PPHSfan]

Y'all act like this GE is some guy named George Espinoza or something. Every single executive and employee of GE pays taxes. And every stockholder pays taxes. So where is this George Espinoza guy that's not paying his taxes?

[Old&Crusty]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Good question. I'm befuddled myself, but our previous leader made it a point to name them as such and our current leader hasn't seen it necessary to change.

For the record, I in no way favor the public subsidizing business, so no, I do not suggest income taxes be used for commercial endevours. However I do not think legislation will be passed that takes the burden from Jack and Jane Taxpayer and passes it to XYZ Corporation. If the tax code were not broken, corporations would be paying their fair share. A flat tax could rid us of the loopholes, including the majority of the beauracracy of the IRS, and create an equitable system for all individual, joint, and commercial income tax filers.

Back to my original post. No income tax for Jack and Jane and no income tax for industry. Everyone's happy.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Y'all act like this GE is some guy named George Espinoza or something. Every single executive and employee of GE pays taxes. And every stockholder pays taxes. So where is this George Espinoza guy that's not paying his taxes? Technically, GE is a person. Only they are awarded better benefits of being an American, even if most of their assets are kept over seas. I see your point though.

[carter08]

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.

[BEAST]

It was all a hoax. The AP reported on it before they checked the source. I'll tell you how GE didn't have to pay taxes. They "donated" over $2.5 mil to the dems/BHO a few years back. Follow the money. And I thought it was the Elephants in bed with the corps...........




BEAST

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by BEAST
It was all a hoax. The AP reported on it before they checked the source. I'll tell you how GE didn't have to pay taxes. They "donated" over $2.5 mil to the dems/BHO a few years back. Follow the money. And I thought it was the Elephants in bed with the corps...........




BEAST

That's a helluva return on that investment!

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
That's a helluva return on that investment!

No kidding. Three extra zeroes and another billion on top. I think the management team and accounting team at GE might be my new heroes.

[Black_Magic]

I think its amazing that some cant see the republicans are out to 1) shut down the government if they dont get what they demand. and 2) are out for the wealthy.

1) Just look at the demonstrations outside congress with signs saying " SHUT ER DOWN" . Tea baggers want a shut down so if you want to blame anyone for shutting it down its kinda hard to not blame the folks outside with the signs saying to do it and the representatives who go out and also say shut it down.

2) Look at the budget proposal Ryan put up....:rolleyes: Heck he gives ANOTHER FAT CUT TO MILLIONARES.... at the same time he slashes benifits for the elderly and poor all over the board.. but yet they claim there needs to be shared sacrifice???? wow!!!

The wealthy have made out like bandits in the last 10 years thanks to BUSH and the congress of 2002. Now that we cant make ends meet we want to give them MORE??? and make the elderly and poor do with less??? WOW!! :rolleyes: :doh:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I think its amazing that some cant see the republicans are out to 1) shut down the government if they dont get what they demand. and 2) are out for the wealthy.

1) Just look at the demonstrations outside congress with signs saying " SHUT ER DOWN" . Tea baggers want a shut down so if you want to blame anyone for shutting it down its kinda hard to not blame the folks outside with the signs saying to do it and the representatives who go out and also say shut it down.

2) Look at the budget proposal Ryan put up....:rolleyes: Heck he gives ANOTHER FAT CUT TO MILLIONARES.... at the same time he slashes benifits for the elderly and poor all over the board.. but yet they claim there needs to be shared sacrifice???? wow!!!

The wealthy have made out like bandits in the last 10 years thanks to BUSH and the congress of 2002. Now that we cant make ends meet we want to give them MORE??? and make the elderly and poor do with less??? WOW!! :rolleyes: :doh:


u keep railing agianst the right..but GE is in tight with the LEFT and that helped them when it came tax time..When will you see BOTH sides only care about their own and not the nation

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by BEAST
It was all a hoax. The AP reported on it before they checked the source. I'll tell you how GE didn't have to pay taxes. They "donated" over $2.5 mil to the dems/BHO a few years back. Follow the money. And I thought it was the Elephants in bed with the corps...........




BEAST

Maybe it's an incentive for them to stay headquartered in the U.S.? 60 minutes did a report a few weeks ago on the uncanny amount of U.S. corporations who are "moving" their headquarters to countries with low tax rates. $1.1 trillion in tax money has already moved out. The kicker is, they don't move. CBS visited their offices and it was usually just 1-2 people, one was just an empty board room.

Here is a good article about it - http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/us-corporate-tax-rates-the-primary-cause-for-companies-moving-overseas

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I think its amazing that some cant see the republicans are out to 1) shut down the government if they dont get what they demand. and 2) are out for the wealthy.

1) Just look at the demonstrations outside congress with signs saying " SHUT ER DOWN" . Tea baggers want a shut down so if you want to blame anyone for shutting it down its kinda hard to not blame the folks outside with the signs saying to do it and the representatives who go out and also say shut it down.

2) Look at the budget proposal Ryan put up....:rolleyes: Heck he gives ANOTHER FAT CUT TO MILLIONARES.... at the same time he slashes benifits for the elderly and poor all over the board.. but yet they claim there needs to be shared sacrifice???? wow!!!

The wealthy have made out like bandits in the last 10 years thanks to BUSH and the congress of 2002. Now that we cant make ends meet we want to give them MORE??? and make the elderly and poor do with less??? WOW!! :rolleyes: :doh: Same ol class warfare argument. But the Prez ramped it up another notch yesterday!:rolleyes:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
u keep railing agianst the right..but GE is in tight with the LEFT and that helped them when it came tax time..When will you see BOTH sides only care about their own and not the nation against the right? Look I dont care where you want to say you are. Right , left , center, over, or under. The bottom line is what the teaparty ( ultra-conservative republicans ) is advocating. That is cut taxes on the wealthy. and reduce help for the needy, poor and elderly in this nation. What sacrifice are the wealthy asked for? SACRIFICE?? They want ANOTHER tax cut when the last one they got was the biggest in history!:doh: All at a time when our government cant make ends meet as it is now. Ask your self this. who is hurting more now? the Banker? or the Janitor? who needs help first? Ryan and teaparty folks are gona help out the banker.:doh:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Reds fan
Same ol class warfare argument. But the Prez ramped it up another notch yesterday!:rolleyes: I say Ryan ramped it up with asking for the massive tax cut for the rich.. Poor old millionares:doh:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Reds fan
Same ol class warfare argument. But the Prez ramped it up another notch yesterday!:rolleyes: even though America can’t afford to invest in education or clean energy; even though we can’t afford to care for seniors and poor children, the Teaparty and Republicans think we can somehow afford more than $1 trillion in new tax breaks for the wealthy :rolleyes: :doh: So Go ahead and fight for that way of thinking. you know its just wrong. you have to

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
against the right? Look I dont care where you want to say you are. Right , left , center, over, or under. The bottom line is what the teaparty ( ultra-conservative republicans ) is advocating. That is cut taxes on the wealthy. and reduce help for the needy, poor and elderly in this nation. What sacrifice are the wealthy asked for? SACRIFICE?? They want ANOTHER tax cut when the last one they got was the biggest in history!:doh: All at a time when our government cant make ends meet as it is now. Ask your self this. who is hurting more now? the Banker? or the Janitor? who needs help first? Ryan and teaparty folks are gona help out the banker.:doh:

did you realize that some of the wealthiest people are already paying 48% of their income to taxes, state and federal. if you raise their taxes a little more then they are giving more than they are receiving. In your stupid logic tell me how that's fair to anyone.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Pick6
did you realize that some of the wealthiest people are already paying 48% of their income to taxes, state and federal. if you raise their taxes a little more then they are giving more than they are receiving. In your stupid logic tell me how that's fair to anyone. Give me a break! There are so many loopholes that they dont pay near 48%. Look. cant feel sorry for a fella who owns a jet and two vacation homes at all. He is doing just fine and needs no sympathy at all. on the other hand the janitor who would love to send his daughter to college now cant because the Teaparty wants to cut pell grants and at the same time give billionares a tax cut... Sorry just cant muster sympathy for a wealthy fella who has it all. I think the Janitor needs the help in these days... But you go ahead and fight for the wealthy fellas rights while I argue for the Janitor...:thumbsup:

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Give me a break! There are so many loopholes that they dont pay near 48%. Look. cant feel sorry for a fella who owns a jet and two vacation homes at all. He is doing just fine and needs no sympathy at all. on the other hand the janitor who would love to send his daughter to college now cant because the Teaparty wants to cut pell grants and at the same time give billionares a tax cut... Sorry just cant muster sympathy for a wealthy fella who has it all. I think the Janitor needs the help in these days... But you go ahead and fight for the wealthy fellas rights while I argue for the Janitor...:thumbsup:

Maybe the janitor should get off his lazy butt and get another job instead of looking for handouts. I'm a family of 5 and make less than $65,000. I qualify for alot government help, but I'm man enough to accept responsibility and make it on my own. I don't need anyone's help. If I need to work extra hours or get an extra job, that's what I do. That's what all the other lazy bums would do if they hadn't started taking handouts at an early age. You are nothing but a staunch supporter of keeping the poor poor by wanting the wealthy to give more so the poor lazy folks can keep collecting welfare.

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by Pick6
Maybe the janitor should get off his lazy butt and get another job instead of looking for handouts. I'm a family of 5 and make less than $65,000. I qualify for alot government help, but I'm man enough to accept responsibility and make it on my own. I don't need anyone's help. If I need to work extra hours or get an extra job, that's what I do. That's what all the other lazy bums would do if they hadn't started taking handouts at an early age. You are nothing but a staunch supporter of keeping the poor poor by wanting the wealthy to give more so the poor lazy folks can keep collecting welfare. Pretty well summed up there Pick6, some folks will just keep voting themselves into perpetual poverty. Prez playing right into BM's and many other's emotions. What's one of the seven deadly sins...jealousy? Regardless, we could tax the wealthy at 100% and it would remove the deficit spending. But that don't matter, tax 'em baby tax 'em, that'll put them in their place!:p

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
against the right? Look I dont care where you want to say you are. Right , left , center, over, or under. The bottom line is what the teaparty ( ultra-conservative republicans ) is advocating. That is cut taxes on the wealthy. and reduce help for the needy, poor and elderly in this nation. What sacrifice are the wealthy asked for? SACRIFICE?? They want ANOTHER tax cut when the last one they got was the biggest in history!:doh: All at a time when our government cant make ends meet as it is now. Ask your self this. who is hurting more now? the Banker? or the Janitor? who needs help first? Ryan and teaparty folks are gona help out the banker.:doh:



A tax cut to a segment of society that was OVERTAXED in the first place has you all hot and bothered. You keep screeching and crying about 1% of the population and ignoring the rest. Why aren't you screaming about the bottom 50% of the tax payers who only provided 3% of the total taxes? You are so left wing biased you can't even see the facts. IF our Government were to implement a flat tax of say 10% for everyone the wealthy in this country would get a huge tax cut and the poor would get a huge tax increase. Yet that would be the fairest thing to do. The only way you could argue against that is if you are in favor of redistribution of the wealth. Are you?

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Pick6
Maybe the janitor should get off his lazy butt and get another job instead of looking for handouts. I'm a family of 5 and make less than $65,000. I qualify for alot government help, but I'm man enough to accept responsibility and make it on my own. I don't need anyone's help. If I need to work extra hours or get an extra job, that's what I do. That's what all the other lazy bums would do if they hadn't started taking handouts at an early age. You are nothing but a staunch supporter of keeping the poor poor by wanting the wealthy to give more so the poor lazy folks can keep collecting welfare. WELL you just go ahead and go out and get your extra job and vote in favor of giving millionares MORE breaks and get them all the help you want them to have while they go home at lunch and play golf all after noon. ( hard working fella ). I will fight for the janitors right to a FAIR wage for all his HARD work and a respectible education for his kids. AGAIN. I say Go ahead and argue for the poor CEO and Bankers. If you think they are so mistreated and in so much need of support. I will continue to call it like it is and argue for the janitor and his kids. Hey if you feel good about your self good for you. but why do you bash folks who argue for the poor who work hard for so little? Never mind. I know why, just think its backwards thinking.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Reds fan
Pretty well summed up there Pick6, some folks will just keep voting themselves into perpetual poverty. Prez playing right into BM's and many other's emotions. What's one of the seven deadly sins...jealousy? Regardless, we could tax the wealthy at 100% and it would remove the deficit spending. But that don't matter, tax 'em baby tax 'em, that'll put them in their place!:p so let me get this right . Just so we know where you all stand. are you infavor of lowering the tax rate for the millionares and at the same time cutting funding for pell grants??

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Give me a break! There are so many loopholes that they dont pay near 48%. Look. cant feel sorry for a fella who owns a jet and two vacation homes at all. He is doing just fine and needs no sympathy at all. on the other hand the janitor who would love to send his daughter to college now cant because the Teaparty wants to cut pell grants and at the same time give billionares a tax cut... Sorry just cant muster sympathy for a wealthy fella who has it all. I think the Janitor needs the help in these days... But you go ahead and fight for the wealthy fellas rights while I argue for the Janitor...:thumbsup:



don't have a problem with you arguing for the Janitor BM. But why are you placing the blame for the Janitors plight on the wealthy? The janitor earned his position in life just like the wealthy did. You seem to think the wealthy OWE society while the poor are OWED by society.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
WELL you just go ahead and go out and get your extra job and vote in favor of giving millionares MORE breaks and get them all the help you want them to have while they go home at lunch and play golf all after noon. ( hard working fella ). I will fight for the janitors right to a FAIR wage for all his HARD work and a respectible education for his kids. AGAIN. I say Go ahead and argue for the poor CEO and Bankers. If you think they are so mistreated and in so much need of support. I will continue to call it like it is and argue for the janitor and his kids. Hey if you feel good about your self good for you. but why do you bash folks who argue for the poor who work hard for so little? Never mind. I know why, just think its backwards thinking.

Go to an indian reservation. Look at their housing and their way of living. The Govt pays for most of their needs and now they have become lazy and complacent and can't do anything without the Govt. That is what the Govt wanted when they started giving to them. That is what will happen to the rest of the American population when they get used to being baby sat all the time. The only thing they have good is medical care, if you don't mind waiting months and months to get seen.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
don't have a problem with you arguing for the Janitor BM. But why are you placing the blame for the Janitors plight on the wealthy? The janitor earned his position in life just like the wealthy did. You seem to think the wealthy OWE society while the poor are OWED by society. The janitors pay check like many many other middle class pay checks have shrunk and shrunk over the last 40 years. 40 years ago , a family could make it very comfortablel on 1 middle class blue collar job. Now we struggle on TWO middle class jobs. At the same time you have the top wage earners in this nation having 5 times the buying power than they did 40 years ago. why? the middle class pay has not risen with the same rate of the CEO. The wealthy have taken a larger and larger piece of the pie year after year after year. They dont work harder.. Thats Idea laughable . The blue collar isnt lazy. they work thier butts off for less and less. They diserve more. the wealthy have it good enough. they dont need a tax break.

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
WELL you just go ahead and go out and get your extra job and vote in favor of giving millionares MORE breaks and get them all the help you want them to have while they go home at lunch and play golf all after noon. ( hard working fella ). I will fight for the janitors right to a FAIR wage for all his HARD work and a respectible education for his kids. AGAIN. I say Go ahead and argue for the poor CEO and Bankers. If you think they are so mistreated and in so much need of support. I will continue to call it like it is and argue for the janitor and his kids. Hey if you feel good about your self good for you. but why do you bash folks who argue for the poor who work hard for so little? Never mind. I know why, just think its backwards thinking. No I'm fighting for what's best for the country as a whole, not by class. Again, your argument is emotional.

As for the tax rate, I'll argue that no matter the "rate" %, the effective tax rate is what matters. The "rich" do not get the same deductions as I do. Look at the tax code, I just filed my taxes and am recieving a small refund. I get that refund mostly because of the mortgage deduction and some business expenses. So here I am, my family making less than $100K and getting these deductions. However, as the tax code is written to give those with LESS income a break, the "rich" don't get the same deductions. What Paul Ryan suggests is not a tax cut but a revision of the codes to actually close loopholes that those like GE take advantage of. I'll bet in the end that will actually raise the effective tax rate of those "evil" 'er 'um sucessful folk. But that me be too logical.:rolleyes:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Pick6
Go to an indian reservation. Look at their housing and their way of living. The Govt pays for most of their needs and now they have become lazy and complacent and can't do anything without the Govt. The government took thier land and way of life. As I understand history they were happy before we took it all from them. I dont fault them. They are victims like the jews are in history. they are not to be critisized IMO.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sure is not, but pay the taxes due on the success just like Joe Average does every year

:2thumbsup

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Pick6
Maybe the janitor should get off his lazy butt and get another job instead of looking for handouts. I'm a family of 5 and make less than $65,000. I qualify for alot government help, but I'm man enough to accept responsibility and make it on my own. I don't need anyone's help. If I need to work extra hours or get an extra job, that's what I do. That's what all the other lazy bums would do if they hadn't started taking handouts at an early age. You are nothing but a staunch supporter of keeping the poor poor by wanting the wealthy to give more so the poor lazy folks can keep collecting welfare. :clap: :clap:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
So change the laws. Quit crying because somebody knows how to take advantage of them.

You have to have lots of money to change the laws that are going to benefit the rich.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Reds fan
The "rich" do not get the same deductions as I do. They dont need the same deductions you do. Besides , many dont get one dime taken out thier income because they pay at the end of the year. all the while they find all the loopholes and get to use the money to thier advatage. Sorry You guys can argue all you want for the Trumps of the world but Im not gona feel they are mistreated in ANY way what so ever. In fact I think they should be gratefull for being so fortunate.

We are in a fix here. The Idea to take food out of the mouth of poor kids and elderly and at the same time give the Trumps a tax cut is laughable. That you would try to defend that as right is even more laughable. I think the Ryan plan should be put up in lights and shown all over the media as what the conservatives in this country will do if succesfull in 2012. a very small minority of this counrty will support that plan.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by garciap77
You have to have lots of money to change the laws that are going to benefit the rich. thats the root of the evil behind what is wrong. Money buys votes. thats why those with money have made out like bandits in the last few years while the rest of us have now been asked to sacrifice.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Not when all the jobs they are supposed to create are no longer here in the US.



Does no good to write congressmen because of lobbyist hired by the corporations.

Will getting rid of the lobbyist will help cut the deficit. They are the ones who dictate where most of the funding goes.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
The janitors pay check like many many other middle class pay checks have shrunk and shrunk over the last 40 years. 40 years ago , a family could make it very comfortablel on 1 middle class blue collar job. Now we struggle on TWO middle class jobs. At the same time you have the top wage earners in this nation having 5 times the buying power than they did 40 years ago. why? the middle class pay has not risen with the same rate of the CEO. The wealthy have taken a larger and larger piece of the pie year after year after year. They dont work harder.. Thats Idea laughable . The blue collar isnt lazy. they work thier butts off for less and less. They diserve more. the wealthy have it good enough. they dont need a tax break.





Not everything you say is a bad point. You just have directed your disdain at the wrong people. How is it the fault of the wealthy that the poor keep getting less and less of the pie? Should the wealthy voluntarily agree to make LESS money so that the blue collar gets a bigger paycheck? Things are certainly worst than they were 40 years ago. but how are they now compared to 100 years ago? 150 years ago? 200 years ago?
And you keep calling the tax cuts as a tax BREAK. That is your mistake. The majority of the tax BREAKS in this country have been going to the poor. Again, read who pays the vast majority of the taxes.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
thats the root of the evil behind what is wrong. Money buys votes. thats why those with money have made out like bandits in the last few years while the rest of us have now been asked to sacrifice.

I think you are right. By the way, I saw you scarifying yesterday out in on the track. I can’t believe you refused to take a picture with common folk, just because you are some kind of celebrity.:D



;)

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
thats the root of the evil behind what is wrong. Money buys votes. thats why those with money have made out like bandits in the last few years while the rest of us have now been asked to sacrifice. Yeah, does the name Soros ring a bell???

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
The janitors pay check like many many other middle class pay checks have shrunk and shrunk over the last 40 years. 40 years ago , a family could make it very comfortablel on 1 middle class blue collar job..

That is a bald-faced lie.
Another Bowel Movement produced...:rolleyes:

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
They dont need the same deductions you do.




And here is the crux of your logic BM! You want to base tax requirements on NEED rather than fairness or equality. You disregard responsibility while embracing morality. Not all bad in my book but just not very practical. You can't punish success and reward complacency and expect to have a thriving community. In the end both the haves and the have-nots will stop working for what they want. Why would they when it is taken away from one and given to another?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And here is the crux of your logic BM! You want to base tax requirements on NEED rather than fairness or equality. You disregard responsibility while embracing morality. Not all bad in my book but just not very practical.

I'd say it is plenty "bad". That line of stage-one thinking is very very dangerous. You can base anything on need and justify everything toward their agenda. Damn the consequences.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And here is the crux of your logic BM! You want to base tax requirements on NEED rather than fairness or equality. You disregard responsibility while embracing morality. Not all bad in my book but just not very practical. You can't punish success and reward complacency and expect to have a thriving community. In the end both the haves and the have-nots will stop working for what they want. Why would they when it is taken away from one and given to another? Its not punishing success at all. nobody will stop working as you put it. You say its not fair I guess to tax Donald Trump at 38% or what ever while taxing his janitor at 15%. I say it is very fair. Heck Punish me by putting me in the millionare status and make me pay 38% ANY DAY! Please punish me that way;) Are we not right now having to make choises in the economy based on Need? Sure we are. all the time. Republican say we cant afford pell grants or medicaid or medicare for the elderly. I say we cant afford to extend the bush tax cuts for millionares and billionares because that money is needed for more important things than a third vacation home or a plane.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Its not punishing success at all. nobody will stop working as you put it. You say its not fair I guess to tax Donald Trump at 38% or what ever while taxing his janitor at 15%. I say it is very fair. Heck Punish me by putting me in the millionare status and make me pay 38% ANY DAY! Please punish me that way;) Are we not right now having to make choises in the economy based on Need? Sure we are. all the time. Republican say we cant afford pell grants or medicade or medicare for the lederly. I say we cant afford to extend the bush tax cuts for millionares and billionares because that money is needed for more important things than a third vacation home or a plane.


Have you ever witnessed poor people creating jobs? Now, I not any other conservative want the sick and elderly to die in the streets like you think we do. Medicare and Medicade have been bankrupt for years. What is happening now should have happened a long time ago. The gov't is going to have to learn to live within its means the way we all do. This debt crisis is far out of control. There is already plenty of money flowing into DC via taxes right now. Our representatives and the President, not just this president, although hes doing it at a much faster pace, are spending the money foolishly.




BEAST

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
thats the root of the evil behind what is wrong. Money buys votes. thats why those with money have made out like bandits in the last few years while the rest of us have now been asked to sacrifice.

Unions and occupational associations have lots of money. They also represent the middle and lower class mostly. Why can't they buy the votes needed to make the changes you feel are necessary?

[waterboy]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
Unions and occupational associations have lots of money. They also represent the middle and lower class mostly. Why can't they buy the votes needed to make the changes you feel are necessary?
Probably because they are not as concerned about the worker as a lot of people seem to think. That's been my experience after paying dues for several years at a union shop. Their main concern seemed to be whether the union was making money off the worker instead of whether the worker was getting treated fairly. I saw a lot of collaboration between the union and the corporate bigwigs that had nothing to do with the fair treatment of employees. The benefit always leaned toward the company and keeping the union's pockets lined, in my opinion. That may or may not be a "fair" assessment of all unions, but it has been my experience, and I tend to think that sort of collaboration is rampant.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by BEAST
Have you ever witnessed poor people creating jobs? Now, I not any other conservative want the sick and elderly to die in the streets like you think we do. Medicare and Medicade have been bankrupt for years. What is happening now should have happened a long time ago. The gov't is going to have to learn to live within its means the way we all do. This debt crisis is far out of control. There is already plenty of money flowing into DC via taxes right now. Our representatives and the President, not just this president, although hes doing it at a much faster pace, are spending the money foolishly.




BEAST good thing this is what elections are about. I have confidence in the mass majority of americans to make the right call once they hear both plans. I have no doubt that most americans will side with the presidents way of fixing it as compared to Ryans and the teaparty way. once both are put to america I have no doubt that the majority will think Ryans plan is extreem and will be very unpopular. In the end the solution will not be Ryans way. Too many old folks and blue collar folks out there who vote for that to happen.;) Just need enough time for both sides to be seen and america will demand the right way.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
good thing this is what elections are about. I have confidence in the mass majority of americans to make the right call once they hear both plans. I have no doubt that most americans will side with the presidents way of fixing it as compared to Ryans and the teaparty way. once both are put to america I have no doubt that the majority will think Ryans plan is extreem and will be very unpopular. In the end the solution will not be Ryans way. Too many old folks and blue collar folks out there who vote for that to happen.;) Just need enough time for both sides to be seen and america will demand the right way.


i am sorry, but I pity people like you who are so into the left or the right that you think your side is always right no matter what they say

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Its not punishing success at all. nobody will stop working as you put it. You say its not fair I guess to tax Donald Trump at 38% or what ever while taxing his janitor at 15%. I say it is very fair. Heck Punish me by putting me in the millionare status and make me pay 38% ANY DAY! Please punish me that way;) Are we not right now having to make choises in the economy based on Need? Sure we are. all the time. Republican say we cant afford pell grants or medicaid or medicare for the elderly. I say we cant afford to extend the bush tax cuts for millionares and billionares because that money is needed for more important things than a third vacation home or a plane.




I guess you would be in favor of the starting QB for Argyle High School being required to give up his playing time so the Janitor (I mean bench warmer) can get playing time?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
i am sorry, but I pity people like you who are so into the left or the right that you think your side is always right no matter what they say



He is out of control even for the extreme left. :D

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
good thing this is what elections are about. I have confidence in the mass majority of americans to make the right call once they hear both plans. I have no doubt that most americans will side with the presidents way of fixing it as compared to Ryans and the teaparty way. once both are put to america I have no doubt that the majority will think Ryans plan is extreem and will be very unpopular. In the end the solution will not be Ryans way. Too many old folks and blue collar folks out there who vote for that to happen.;) Just need enough time for both sides to be seen and america will demand the right way.


You really think BHO is popular? You really think most Americans agree with him? You need to get outside the public sector some. His policies are crippling business. It was just 6 months ago that the tea party and the conservatives had land slide wins in the elections. Guess what, they are attempting to do what they were elected to do. That is, STOP what BHO is doing to the country. I didnt say the DEMOCRATS, I SAID BHO. Wake up man.




BEAST

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I guess you would be in favor of the starting QB for Argyle High School being required to give up his playing time so the Janitor (I mean bench warmer) can get playing time?

LOL!! Why would he care anything about Argyle??? Although, that might could help Snyder in the long run!!:thinking:

[Old LB]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
LOL!! Why would he care anything about Argyle??? Although, that might could help Snyder in the long run!!:thinking:

Won't help, they can't beat Brownwood or Monahans! :D

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Old LB
Won't help, they can't beat Brownwood or Monahans! :D

Well...since Greenwood has been struggling and not beating any of the above, I think I will just keep my mouth shut!!!:p

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
LOL!! Why would he care anything about Argyle??? Although, that might could help Snyder in the long run!!:thinking:



My bad! i though BM was from Argyle........

[Old LB]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Well, I think I will just keep my mouth shut!!!:p

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I say we cant afford to extend the bush tax cuts for millionares and billionares because that money is needed for more important things than a third vacation home or a plane.

Another lie!
Everyone, across the board got tax cuts. Even those who pay little to no taxes at all.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by Black_Magic(well, kinda)
the presidents way......
Ryans and the teaparty way.......

once both put it to america.......

;)

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Old LB
Won't help, they can't beat Brownwood or Monahans! :D

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by BEAST
You really think BHO is popular? You really think most Americans agree with him? You need to get outside the public sector some. His policies are crippling business. It was just 6 months ago that the tea party and the conservatives had land slide wins in the elections. Guess what, they are attempting to do what they were elected to do. That is, STOP what BHO is doing to the country. I didnt say the DEMOCRATS, I SAID BHO. Wake up man.




BEAST

What business are being crippled right now? I know in this young year we've seen the closure of a regional retailer in Lacks, and the mass closings of Blockbuster video stores around the nation. However, none of those closings were a result of legislation. They were the result of market forces. Two traditionally-run firms deeply-rooted in their ways, failing to move ahead with consumer demand and creditor obligations.

Unemployment rates at the state and national level are both dropping modestly, and new capital investments are being made. If Congress would get their stuff together and stop rocking the boat and focus on really working on reducing spending while keeping current tax rates, the markets will have a chance to heal themselves. Shops aren't shuttering in large scale, so entrepreneurs are still compelled to do business in spite of current tax rates.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The majority of the tax BREAKS in this country have been going to the poor. Again, read who pays the vast majority of the taxes.

Congress allowed the Making Work Pay tax credit expire this year, meaning an increase in withholding of approximately $55 a month from a worker with two exemptions. They replaced it by lowering the Social Security rate rate from 6.2% to 4.2%. This should not have happened. To compound this, keep in mind that income is only taxed up to $106,800 for Social Security. So a household earning $90,000 pays $5,580 (3,780 for 2011) per year in SS taxes. Compare that to a household earning $180,000 per year. They pay $6,621.60, but their effective SS tax rate is 3.68% (2.5% for 2011). The disparity increases relative to income ($1,000,000 pays 0.662% normally, 0.449% 2011). The proportionate total to be paid by someone with income of $1,000,000 is $62,000, or $42,000 in 2011. They're taxed 35% toward income tax? Not all income is taxed at the same rate. And before any of that is calculated, there are plenty of deductions and credits from child tax credits, mortgage interest credits, home office deductions, and so on and so forth. Also, keep in mind that investment income is not subject to SS or Medicare tax, and has a lower marginal tax rate than normal income tax. Medicare tax has no ceiling, but it is less than half the normal SS rate. As huge a hog as SS is, it is asinine to see a reduction of two percentage points. Its fiscally irresponsible. But that's par for the course for our government. Lets just have a few more rounds of quantitative easing and sell the country back to the natives.

[Black_Magic]

I love the most recient twist on the names for things. The republicans want to call the Idea of raising taxes on the wealthy or richest people in our economy a tax on "JOB CREATORS":clap: :clap: :clap: Nice try at a spin.. I say the " JOB CREATORS" should have created jobs with the Bush tax cut instead of taking the money and running... Funny thing is They want to give the JOB CREATORS another tax cut ...:clap:

[RMAC]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Congress allowed the Making Work Pay tax credit expire this year, meaning an increase in withholding of approximately $55 a month from a worker with two exemptions. They replaced it by lowering the Social Security rate rate from 6.2% to 4.2%. This should not have happened. To compound this, keep in mind that income is only taxed up to $106,800 for Social Security. So a household earning $90,000 pays $5,580 (3,780 for 2011) per year in SS taxes. Compare that to a household earning $180,000 per year. They pay $6,621.60, but their effective SS tax rate is 3.68% (2.5% for 2011). The disparity increases relative to income ($1,000,000 pays 0.662% normally, 0.449% 2011). The proportionate total to be paid by someone with income of $1,000,000 is $62,000, or $42,000 in 2011. They're taxed 35% toward income tax? Not all income is taxed at the same rate. And before any of that is calculated, there are plenty of deductions and credits from child tax credits, mortgage interest credits, home office deductions, and so on and so forth. Also, keep in mind that investment income is not subject to SS or Medicare tax, and has a lower marginal tax rate than normal income tax. Medicare tax has no ceiling, but it is less than half the normal SS rate. As huge a hog as SS is, it is asinine to see a reduction of two percentage points. Its fiscally irresponsible. But that's par for the course for our government. Lets just have a few more rounds of quantitative easing and sell the country back to the natives.

One thing to keep in mind is this: Social Security, is in essence, nothing more that a large scale Ponzi Scheme enforced by the government. There is NO WAY TO FIX IT. It is as simple as that. IMO the whole damn thing just needs to be done away with, governmental obligations paid right now to all who have invested in it, with EVERYBODY taking a percentage hit, which would be FAIR by BM's standards, and start over.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by RMAC
One thing to keep in mind is this: Social Security, is in essence, nothing more that a large scale Ponzi Scheme enforced by the government. There is NO WAY TO FIX IT. It is as simple as that. IMO the whole damn thing just needs to be done away with, governmental obligations paid right now to all who have invested in it, with EVERYBODY taking a percentage hit, which would be FAIR by BM's standards, and start over.

Oh, agreed, its a broken system. It should have been privatized from the get-go. However, trying to continue on the current path of payments while reducing program revenues is just bad practice.

[RMAC]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Oh, agreed, its a broken system. It should have been privatized from the get-go. However, trying to continue on the current path of payments while reducing program revenues is just bad practice.

Yeah I agree completely. I guess the solution I would propose is that the government pay back all obligations to the public NOW. Obviously, due to interest, this can't be done so as to where everyone gets back what they put in plus the interest. I obviously haven't looked at the numbers but I really doubt it could even all be paid back without interest. I say let everybody take a cut percentage-wise in what they put it, and start over with it privately. Better yet don't do anything else with it. If people want to retire one day, let them put asided the money on their own accord. I'm sure in the '30's when this came out it seemed like a great idea on paper, but hey, so does a 5 gallon bottle of whiskey. Sad thing is, as awesome as it sounds in theory, it's just simply not a good idea. :D

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I love the most recient twist on the names for things. The republicans want to call the Idea of raising taxes on the wealthy or richest people in our economy a tax on "JOB CREATORS":clap: :clap: :clap: Nice try at a spin.. I say the " JOB CREATORS" should have created jobs with the Bush tax cut instead of taking the money and running... Funny thing is They want to give the JOB CREATORS another tax cut ...:clap:

What was the unemployment rate during the Bush years? What are they now? The biggest difference is that business are keeping the money because they have no clue what is coming. If the taxes are going to be raised on them, well they were smart for keeping the money. If the taxes are not raised on them, you will see inventory levels rise, and folks will begin to get jobs based on demand.

You dont understand business do you? Ever witnessed a Janitor start a business and creat jobs?




BEAST

[Old Tiger]

There are 400 people in this country whose wealth is equivalent to 150 million other US citizens combined.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by BEAST

You dont understand business do you? Ever witnessed a Janitor start a business and creat jobs?


BEAST

A janitor from the charter school my little brother attends left his job to start his own cleaning service. It happens. Some of us have the entrepreneurial bug, others don't. He'll never create as many jobs as a corporation, but the work he is able to do and the few part-time people he's able to hire represent the American Dream.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by garciap77
Will getting rid of the lobbyist will help cut the deficit. They are the ones who dictate where most of the funding goes. They tried to and it got voted down...how ironic.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BEAST
You really think BHO is popular? You really think most Americans agree with him? You need to get outside the public sector some. His policies are crippling business. It was just 6 months ago that the tea party and the conservatives had land slide wins in the elections. Guess what, they are attempting to do what they were elected to do. That is, STOP what BHO is doing to the country. I didnt say the DEMOCRATS, I SAID BHO. Wake up man.




BEAST The stuff going on now is still hangover effect from the previous 8 years since most of it was due to expire in 2010/2011. We wouldn't be able to tell how the effects of the new policies will go until years down the road. There is no quick fix for the economy but tax cuts will only make it worse in the long run. Since those elections of the tea party and other rights I would say that 60% of the voters probably regret those decisions made in the heat of the moment.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
A janitor from the charter school my little brother attends left his job to start his own cleaning service. It happens. Some of us have the entrepreneurial bug, others don't. He'll never create as many jobs as a corporation, but the work he is able to do and the few part-time people he's able to hire represent the American Dream.


And to him I give a huge thumbs up. The thing is, HE did it on his OWN.




BEAST

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
The stuff going on now is still hangover effect from the previous 8 years since most of it was due to expire in 2010/2011.




I have to disagree with you. Except for the 9/11 attack, which no President could stop, the economy all through Clinton and Bush was very good. Ive owned my business that long. Since Obama and his team took over, everything went in the crapper. Yes, he says its Bushes fault. What else would he say? He is killing this country from within.




BEAST

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BEAST
I have to disagree with you. Except for the 9/11 attack, which no President could stop, the economy all through Clinton and Bush was very good. Ive owned my business that long. Since Obama and his team took over, everything went in the crapper. Yes, he says its Bushes fault. What else would he say? He is killing this country from within.




BEAST All the policies and tax breaks set forth from 2002-2008 is what brought the economy to where it is now. If you can't see that then you don't need to discuss economics of this country and politics.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
All the policies and tax breaks set forth from 2002-2008 is what brought the economy to where it is now. If you can't see that then you don't need to discuss economics of this country and politics.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Don't call out the Thunder, Go Blue!:tisk:

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
All the policies and tax breaks set forth from 2002-2008 is what brought the economy to where it is now. If you can't see that then you don't need to discuss economics of this country and politics.


So Bushes economic plan has got us where we are now? SO, I assume that Reagans/Bush I's economic plans is what gave us properous years in Clintons term? Think about it. You cant have it both ways.




BEAST

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BEAST
So Bushes economic plan has got us where we are now? SO, I assume that Reagans/Bush I's economic plans is what gave us properous years in Clintons term? Think about it. You cant have it both ways.




BEAST I never said anything about Clinton's. I am not old enough to know much about Reagans policies or the elder Bush policies. But judging from how things were in 90s and early 2000s I would say each carried over well until about 2004 or so.

But those carried over into Bush first term and you really started to see the beginning of the downfall once the new policies came into play under Bush during his 2nd term.


IMO we won't see the effects of Obamas policies till he gets a second term and I think that he will get that second term because GOP doesn't have a great candidate to beat him once the campaign trails start back up.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
I never said anything about Clinton's. I am not old enough to know much about Reagans policies or the elder Bush policies. But judging from how things were in 90s and early 2000s I would say each carried over well until about 2004 or so.

But those carried over into Bush first term and you really started to see the beginning of the downfall once the new policies came into play under Bush during his 2nd term.










IMO we won't see the effects of Obamas policies till he gets a second term and I think that he will get that second term because GOP doesn't have a great candidate to beat him once the campaign trails start back up.

Old Blue, we will just have to agree to disagree. I think a monkey would get more votes than Obama.




BEAST

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by BEAST
I think a monkey would get more votes than Obama.




BEAST
Unless Donald Trump runs as an independent and pulls votes from the monkey.;)

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by BEAST
Old Blue, we will just have to agree to disagree. I think a monkey would get more votes than Obama.




BEAST

I'm not sure I would vote for Obama again. If Ron Paul gets the Republican nod, he's got my vote. If we get another sideshow that includes Palin, I'll stick with Obama.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BEAST
Old Blue, we will just have to agree to disagree. I think a monkey would get more votes than Obama.




BEAST

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/ObamaUrkel.jpg


;)

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
I'm not sure I would vote for Obama again. If Ron Paul gets the Republican nod, he's got my vote. If we get another sideshow that includes Palin, I'll stick with Obama. I would love for Ron Paul to win....his grand daughter is freaking cute as hell too.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BEAST
Old Blue, we will just have to agree to disagree. I think a monkey would get more votes than Obama.




BEAST Unfortunately I disagree. Obama's strong suit is campaigning.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Unfortunately I disagree. Obama's strong suit is campaigning.
And 90% of black people will still vote for himjust because.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Emerson1
And 90% of black people will still vote for himjust because.

No Way!!!!:D



;)