Auburn is digging a deeper hole!!!

[RoyceTTU]

This dosn't bode well for Tommy Tuberville either. Some of the things that are coming out are starting to stretch back to his coaching days. I know 95% of all coaches do it, but I hate to see my own guy. Some of these auburn problems are going all the way back to Bowden. Enjoy the read.






http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/ex_auburn_players_claim_systematic_pay_to_play/4468924


Ex-Auburn Players Claim Systematic Pay-To-Play
Posted by Brooks on Mar. 29, 2011, 2:10pmHBO Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel premieres an hour-long special on the business and ethics of college sports on Wednesday. The first airing is at 10p ET on HBO.



(Spoiler alert!)

I have obtained an advance copy of the show and have transcribed excerpts of a portion of the Andrea Kremer-hosted “Pay to Play” segment of the show below.

The segment contains explosive claims from former Auburn players Chaz Ramsey, Troy Reddick, Stanley McClover and Raven Gray.

•On McClover’s recruitment:
Kremer voiceover: “McClover said it wasn’t until he attended an all-star camp at Louisiana State University that he realized how the game is played. A game of money and influence.”

McClover: “Somebody came to me, I don’t even know this person and he was like, ‘we would love for you to come to LSU and he gave me a handshake and it had five hundred dollars in there. … that’s called a money handshake … I grabbed it and I’m like, ‘wow,’ hell I thought ten dollars was a lot of money back then. Five hundred dollars for doing nothing but what I was blessed to do. I was happy.”

Kremer to McClover: “What did you say to the guy when he hands you five hundred dollars?”

McClover: “Thank you and I’m seriously thinking about coming to LSU.”

Kremer voiceover: “But McClover says there were money handshakes from boosters at other football camps too. At Auburn for a couple hundred dollars and at Michigan State. All the schools denied any wrongdoing. And things really started heating up a few months later when he went to Ohio State for an official visit where schools get a chance for one weekend to host prospective athletes. McClover says there were money handshakes from alumni there too. About a thousand dollars. And something else to entice him.”

McClover: “They send girls my way. I partied. When I got there I met up with a couple guys from the team. We went to a party and they asked me to pick any girl I wanted.”

Kremer: “Did she offer sexual services?“
McClover: “Yes.”

Kremer: “Did you take them?”

McClover: “Yes.”

Kremer: “McClover committed to Ohio State right after that weekend. The recruiter at Ohio State who says he dealt with McClover that weekend denied the school was involved in any wrongdoing.”

•On what caused McClover to sign with Auburn over Ohio State:
Kremer voiceover: “McClover says what he asked for was money. A lot of it. And that he got it. Delivered in a bookbag, exact amount unknown.”

Kremer to McClover: “You opened it up, what are you thinking?”

McClover: “I almost passed out. I literally almost passed out I couldn’t believe it was true. I felt like I owed them.”

Kremer to McClover: “You felt obligated to them (Auburn)?”

McClover: “I felt totally obligated.”

Kremer to McClover: “Because of the money?”

McClover: “Yeah.”

•Troy Reddick talks about his recruitment by Auburn
Reddick: “I was contacted by a local alumni (of Auburn) and offered a large sum of money.

Kremer: “What are you thinking?”

Reddick: “That people are trying to take advantage of me. And I can’t give anybody any kind of power over me.”

Kremer voiceover: “He (Reddick) says he didn’t take the handout. …

•Reddick on why he was unhappy at Auburn - and the remedy for that unhappiness
Kremer voiceover: “Reddick was growing increasingly unhappy because he says the (Auburn) coaches wanted him to change his major. Why? Because his class schedule got in the way of football practice.”

Reddick: “I changed my major, so my classes didn’t interfere no more but I didn’t bother to go because I knew I was only there to play football.”

Kremer: “So what did you do?”

Reddick: “I started complaining and insinuating that I was ready to leave any day. They had to do something about that.”

Kremer voiceover: “The enticement to stay, Reddick says, became clear to him, when one of the coaches approached him after a team meeting.”

Reddick: “He (Auburn coach) said I got some mail for you up in my office.”

Kremer to Reddick: “Some mail for you?”

Reddick: “And I followed him up to his office and he gave me an envelope. I didn’t open there, I walked out to my truck, took off. … It was about 500 dollars.”

Kremer: “500 dollars in the envelope?”

Reddick: (nods yes)

Kremer: “How often did you get the money in the envelope?”

Reddick: “Over that season it happened like two or three more times. And it happened about six or seven times my senior year.”

Kremer: “So where do you think the money came from?”

Reddick: “I think that worry got back to alumni from my hometown. Or it may have been the coaches or the staff but everybody knew I didn’t want to be there.”

•On McClover being paid $4,000 for his performance in the Iron Bowl:
Kremer voiceover: “Stanley McClover says he was also paid while at school (Auburn). Paid by boosters. Like the time he had his eye on this 1973 Chevy Impala.”

McClover: “Private owner wanted seven thousand in cash so I went to my booster who I knew and he gave me the money the next day in a bookbag.”

Kremer voiceover: “McClover says eventually he didn’t have to ask for money, as long as he played well, he’d get paid.”

Kremer to McClover: “How much was a sack worth?”

McClover: “Anywhere between 300 and 400 dollars. For one.”

Kremer to McClover: “I think in one game you had four sacks, what did you earn in that game?”

McClover: “Four thousand. Against Alabama.”

Kremer: “Seriously?”

McClover: “Alabama, a rivalry game.”

Kremer: “More money because it’s Alabama?”

McClover: “Definitely. No other game matters.”

•Chaz Ramsey and Raven Gray are interviewed at same time together
Kremer voiceover: “Chaz Ramsey played for a year (for Auburn) in 2007, and says he too received money handshakes after games.”

Ramsey: “You walk out and all the fans are waiting for you to sign autographs and everything and some random guy just walks up to you and shakes your hand and there’s a wad full of money.”

Kremer: “How much are we talking about?”

Ramsey: “300 or 400 dollars a game.”

Kremer voiceover: “Raven Gray was a top (Auburn) recruit in 2007, he says people affiliated with Auburn would visit him at his junior college and press the flesh there too.”

Kremer to Gray: “How much do you think you got?”

Gray: “Twenty five-hundred to three thousand dollars. Loyalty is the key. This man give me money I’m going to be loyal to him and go to Auburn.”

Kremer voiceover: “And he did go to Auburn but got injured before he ever played a game.”

•On Ramsey’s motivation for coming forward
Kremer: “You have an axe to grind?” (Ramsey had a medical claim lawsuit against Auburn recently thrown out.)

Ramsey: “I’m not out to get anybody, I want high school athletes to know what they’re getting into. This is what college football is really about it, it’s a business.”

•Ramsey and Reddick on selling items made available to Auburn players by the school:
Ramsey: “I would sell tickets all the time, Iron Bowl you can make a thousand dollars a ticket.”

Kremer: “How much money did that get you during your time at Auburn?”

Ramsey: “Five-six thousand dollars probably.”

Reddick: “I sold my SEC Championship watch right off the stage as we were celebrating in Toomer’s Corner.”

Kremer: “Why did you sell it?”

Reddick: “Because it was useless to me. I had to sell all my championship rings to help my sister not go into debt as her house was about to be foreclosed on.”

At the end of Kremer’s segment, the host read Auburn’s official response to HBO regarding the allegations by its former players:

The NCAA turned down repeated interview requests to discuss anything to do with illegal payments, despite new NCAA President Mark Emmert recently saying he wants to be more transparent with the media.

As for Auburn University, officials declined to comment on quote, “these alleged claims apparently made by a few former football players” and said, quote, “compliance with all NCAA and Southeastern Conference rules is a major emphasis and top priority for all of our athletic programs.

For more comments from Reddick and McClover, go here.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
This dosn't bode well for Tommy Tuberville either. Some of the things that are coming out are starting to stretch back to his coaching days. I know 95% of all coaches do it, but I hate to see my own guy. Some of these auburn problems are going all the way back to Bowden. Enjoy the read.






http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/ex_auburn_players_claim_systematic_pay_to_play/4468924


Ex-Auburn Players Claim Systematic Pay-To-Play
Posted by Brooks on Mar. 29, 2011, 2:10pmHBO Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel premieres an hour-long special on the business and ethics of college sports on Wednesday. The first airing is at 10p ET on HBO.



(Spoiler alert!)

I have obtained an advance copy of the show and have transcribed excerpts of a portion of the Andrea Kremer-hosted “Pay to Play” segment of the show below.

The segment contains explosive claims from former Auburn players Chaz Ramsey, Troy Reddick, Stanley McClover and Raven Gray.

•On McClover’s recruitment:
Kremer voiceover: “McClover said it wasn’t until he attended an all-star camp at Louisiana State University that he realized how the game is played. A game of money and influence.”

McClover: “Somebody came to me, I don’t even know this person and he was like, ‘we would love for you to come to LSU and he gave me a handshake and it had five hundred dollars in there. … that’s called a money handshake … I grabbed it and I’m like, ‘wow,’ hell I thought ten dollars was a lot of money back then. Five hundred dollars for doing nothing but what I was blessed to do. I was happy.”

Kremer to McClover: “What did you say to the guy when he hands you five hundred dollars?”

McClover: “Thank you and I’m seriously thinking about coming to LSU.”

Kremer voiceover: “But McClover says there were money handshakes from boosters at other football camps too. At Auburn for a couple hundred dollars and at Michigan State. All the schools denied any wrongdoing. And things really started heating up a few months later when he went to Ohio State for an official visit where schools get a chance for one weekend to host prospective athletes. McClover says there were money handshakes from alumni there too. About a thousand dollars. And something else to entice him.”

McClover: “They send girls my way. I partied. When I got there I met up with a couple guys from the team. We went to a party and they asked me to pick any girl I wanted.”

Kremer: “Did she offer sexual services?“
McClover: “Yes.”

Kremer: “Did you take them?”

McClover: “Yes.”

Kremer: “McClover committed to Ohio State right after that weekend. The recruiter at Ohio State who says he dealt with McClover that weekend denied the school was involved in any wrongdoing.”

•On what caused McClover to sign with Auburn over Ohio State:
Kremer voiceover: “McClover says what he asked for was money. A lot of it. And that he got it. Delivered in a bookbag, exact amount unknown.”

Kremer to McClover: “You opened it up, what are you thinking?”

McClover: “I almost passed out. I literally almost passed out I couldn’t believe it was true. I felt like I owed them.”

Kremer to McClover: “You felt obligated to them (Auburn)?”

McClover: “I felt totally obligated.”

Kremer to McClover: “Because of the money?”

McClover: “Yeah.”

•Troy Reddick talks about his recruitment by Auburn
Reddick: “I was contacted by a local alumni (of Auburn) and offered a large sum of money.

Kremer: “What are you thinking?”

Reddick: “That people are trying to take advantage of me. And I can’t give anybody any kind of power over me.”

Kremer voiceover: “He (Reddick) says he didn’t take the handout. …

•Reddick on why he was unhappy at Auburn - and the remedy for that unhappiness
Kremer voiceover: “Reddick was growing increasingly unhappy because he says the (Auburn) coaches wanted him to change his major. Why? Because his class schedule got in the way of football practice.”

Reddick: “I changed my major, so my classes didn’t interfere no more but I didn’t bother to go because I knew I was only there to play football.”

Kremer: “So what did you do?”

Reddick: “I started complaining and insinuating that I was ready to leave any day. They had to do something about that.”

Kremer voiceover: “The enticement to stay, Reddick says, became clear to him, when one of the coaches approached him after a team meeting.”

Reddick: “He (Auburn coach) said I got some mail for you up in my office.”

Kremer to Reddick: “Some mail for you?”

Reddick: “And I followed him up to his office and he gave me an envelope. I didn’t open there, I walked out to my truck, took off. … It was about 500 dollars.”

Kremer: “500 dollars in the envelope?”

Reddick: (nods yes)

Kremer: “How often did you get the money in the envelope?”

Reddick: “Over that season it happened like two or three more times. And it happened about six or seven times my senior year.”

Kremer: “So where do you think the money came from?”

Reddick: “I think that worry got back to alumni from my hometown. Or it may have been the coaches or the staff but everybody knew I didn’t want to be there.”

•On McClover being paid $4,000 for his performance in the Iron Bowl:
Kremer voiceover: “Stanley McClover says he was also paid while at school (Auburn). Paid by boosters. Like the time he had his eye on this 1973 Chevy Impala.”

McClover: “Private owner wanted seven thousand in cash so I went to my booster who I knew and he gave me the money the next day in a bookbag.”

Kremer voiceover: “McClover says eventually he didn’t have to ask for money, as long as he played well, he’d get paid.”

Kremer to McClover: “How much was a sack worth?”

McClover: “Anywhere between 300 and 400 dollars. For one.”

Kremer to McClover: “I think in one game you had four sacks, what did you earn in that game?”

McClover: “Four thousand. Against Alabama.”

Kremer: “Seriously?”

McClover: “Alabama, a rivalry game.”

Kremer: “More money because it’s Alabama?”

McClover: “Definitely. No other game matters.”

•Chaz Ramsey and Raven Gray are interviewed at same time together
Kremer voiceover: “Chaz Ramsey played for a year (for Auburn) in 2007, and says he too received money handshakes after games.”

Ramsey: “You walk out and all the fans are waiting for you to sign autographs and everything and some random guy just walks up to you and shakes your hand and there’s a wad full of money.”

Kremer: “How much are we talking about?”

Ramsey: “300 or 400 dollars a game.”

Kremer voiceover: “Raven Gray was a top (Auburn) recruit in 2007, he says people affiliated with Auburn would visit him at his junior college and press the flesh there too.”

Kremer to Gray: “How much do you think you got?”

Gray: “Twenty five-hundred to three thousand dollars. Loyalty is the key. This man give me money I’m going to be loyal to him and go to Auburn.”

Kremer voiceover: “And he did go to Auburn but got injured before he ever played a game.”

•On Ramsey’s motivation for coming forward
Kremer: “You have an axe to grind?” (Ramsey had a medical claim lawsuit against Auburn recently thrown out.)

Ramsey: “I’m not out to get anybody, I want high school athletes to know what they’re getting into. This is what college football is really about it, it’s a business.”

•Ramsey and Reddick on selling items made available to Auburn players by the school:
Ramsey: “I would sell tickets all the time, Iron Bowl you can make a thousand dollars a ticket.”

Kremer: “How much money did that get you during your time at Auburn?”

Ramsey: “Five-six thousand dollars probably.”

Reddick: “I sold my SEC Championship watch right off the stage as we were celebrating in Toomer’s Corner.”

Kremer: “Why did you sell it?”

Reddick: “Because it was useless to me. I had to sell all my championship rings to help my sister not go into debt as her house was about to be foreclosed on.”

At the end of Kremer’s segment, the host read Auburn’s official response to HBO regarding the allegations by its former players:

The NCAA turned down repeated interview requests to discuss anything to do with illegal payments, despite new NCAA President Mark Emmert recently saying he wants to be more transparent with the media.

As for Auburn University, officials declined to comment on quote, “these alleged claims apparently made by a few former football players” and said, quote, “compliance with all NCAA and Southeastern Conference rules is a major emphasis and top priority for all of our athletic programs.

For more comments from Reddick and McClover, go here.


WOW!! If all this is true, I wonder how long it will be before other past players start talking about their experiences at other major colleges.




BEAST

[waterboy]

Despite what the NCAA says, I'm pretty sure a lot of recruits are well taken care of. I don't think this is unusual at all. I could be wrong, but I think this sort of thing has been prevalent for many years. I'm not trying to accuse anybody of wrongdoing without proof, but sometimes you just have to use common sense. If a recruit comes into a university in a town he's unfamiliar with, has absolutely no money, no job, his family has no money, and school and practice takes up all of his free time, how does he survive? Not only do some of them survive, they usually have a little spending money. How does that happen?

[Tired ole Bobcat]

Can a parent give money and a car to their children if it is out of their on pocket and not from ouside sources?

[waterboy]

I'd be willing to bet money that some recruits' parents take advantage of the situation, too........(**ahem**...Cam Newton's daddy...**ahem**)....:D

No, it is not illegal for a parent of a recruit to give their child a car, spending money, etc., so I'm pretty sure there are parents that take money from boosters......**ahem**see above....:D

[garciap77]

It's all about the money! That's life!

[Old Tiger]

Really this stuff has to make people think Auburn is dirty?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by waterboy
Despite what the NCAA says, I'm pretty sure a lot of recruits are well taken care of. I don't think this is unusual at all. I could be wrong, but I think this sort of thing has been prevalent for many years. I'm not trying to accuse anybody of wrongdoing without proof, but sometimes you just have to use common sense. If a recruit comes into a university in a town he's unfamiliar with, has absolutely no money, no job, his family has no money, and school and practice takes up all of his free time, how does he survive? Not only do some of them survive, they usually have a little spending money. How does that happen?

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Really this stuff has to make people think Auburn is dirty?
Auburn's dirty. Everyone is. The bigger the program, the dirtier it is.

I don't know if his story would be anywhere online, but go look up Eric Tasby. Blue chip RB for Corpus Christi Carroll back in the mid-90's who came from nothing but picked Texas over several other schools, then showed up to school driving a brand new Mustang GT. Same thing with A&M. And Alabama. And Nebraska (how did a college in the middle of nowhere so far away from any major recruiting hub ever get such a powerhouse program?). And USC. And Oklahoma. And Colorado. And Ohio State. And Michigan. And..........

Happens everywhere. Being that Auburn won a national title, I know we're dirty. Just like everyone else in the national title picture.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Auburn's dirty. Everyone is. The bigger the program, the dirtier it is.



Sorry but I think that is a cop out by fans of teams caught cheating. DOES IT HAPPEN..of course..does it happen at every school? No I dont think so.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I think that is a cop out by fans of teams caught cheating. DOES IT HAPPEN..of course..does it happen at every school? No I dont think so.

I don't 100% agree with you but I'm heading down the same path. Does all schools fail to meet NCAA requirments? I would say none are 100% complient. Does Auburn and Ohio State and others abuse it more. Your dang right.

Is it right? Nope, not for any school to bend/brake the rules.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
I don't 100% agree with you but I'm heading down the same path. Does all schools fail to meet NCAA requirments? I would say none are 100% complient. Does Auburn and Ohio State and others abuse it more. Your dang right.

Is it right? Nope, not for any school to bend/brake the rules.


agree..not being 100% complient does not mean dirty. NCAA has so may obscure rules it is easy for something to slip thru the cracks, but I dont think every school has shady back room deals

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
agree..not being 100% complient does not mean dirty. NCAA has so may obscure rules it is easy for something to slip thru the cracks, but I dont think every school has shady back room deals

Agree, and will also say that the major majority of the HC/AD's out there try to run a clean program, but are fighting an uphill battle against boosters doing anything at all cost to win.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry but I think that is a cop out by fans of teams caught cheating. DOES IT HAPPEN..of course..does it happen at every school? No I dont think so.
You don't? What schools would you say are clean? If you think Texas is clean, google Eric Tasby. If you think A&M, watch the "30 for 30" about SMU. If you think Bama or Nebraska is clean, well.....

Oregon, Ohio State, USC, and Oklahoma, among others, have been cited for "lack of institutional control" over the past five years. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

But you're right about one thing. I am copping out. My school is being indicted and I'm trying to cope. I'm an Auburn fan through and through and am still clinging onto the fact that we haven't been indicted, but with past players coming out like this the burden of hearsay is starting to drown out the objections I used to have. But none of that changes the truth that college athletics is littered with $1000 handshakes at every major program. I'm crying like a baby that we might lose our title, but I'm taking everyone else with me.

EVERY major program from Texas to Miami has major violations waiting to be unearthed within their current programs.

If you see a school that routinely grabs four-star prospects, someone's doing some stuff under the table.

[big daddy russ]

And just to make it clear, I'm talking about money changing hands. Big money.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You don't? What schools would you say are clean? If you think Texas is clean, google Eric Tasby. If you think A&M, watch the "30 for 30" about SMU. If you think Bama or Nebraska is clean, well.....

.

I did not say schools never committed infractions in history of their program. You said no school is clean I assumed your talking right now present time

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
agree..not being 100% complient does not mean dirty. NCAA has so may obscure rules it is easy for something to slip thru the cracks, but I dont think every school has shady back room deals



My only real problem with this issue is the hypocricy of it all. Coaches that know this stuff happens all the time and knows that everyone else knows that this stuff happens all the time will come out and claim this stuff doesn't happen all the time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Any coaching staff or AD that has a kid on their program that gets benefits from alumni is dirty by association whether they claim to know about it or not. They know these things happen all the time and not doing something to make sure it doesn't happen makes them guilty too. Yet every coach ever interviewed claims innocence because they didn't know what alumni outside of the program was doing....... It's a game! They know how to get away with it and I say almost everyone does it to some extent.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
EVERY major program from Texas to Miami has major violations waiting to be unearthed within their current programs.



This made me think of something. The term "Major Violation" seems to be loosly defined by NCAA. Tech is under sanctions currently for a "Major Violation" for text messages to possible recruits. Seriously??? this seems minor in comparison. If these are "major" what is what Auburn is being accused of or even the fingers that A&M are pointing at LSU today.


All I know, is things are getting real "catty" right now, and I hate that Tuberville is right in the mix of it. I fear schools will be outing other schools so that they look rosey. This will start a chain reaction that will turn bad.

[Txbroadcaster]

and BTW I see nothing on Tasby about recruiting violations and payment..if u have an article please link me.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
My only real problem with this issue is the hypocricy of it all. Coaches that know this stuff happens all the time and knows that everyone else knows that this stuff happens all the time will come out and claim this stuff doesn't happen all the time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Any coaching staff or AD that has a kid on their program that gets benefits from alumni is dirty by association whether they claim to know about it or not. They know these things happen all the time and not doing something to make sure it doesn't happen makes them guilty too. Yet every coach ever interviewed claims innocence because they didn't know what alumni outside of the program was doing....... It's a game! They know how to get away with it and I say almost everyone does it to some extent.




It's kind of like when my buddy and I are the only two in the car and one of us breaks silent but deadly wind. We both know exactly who did it yet we argue none the less and still try to blame each other. It's nonsense! We both know it's nonsense! But we still play the game!

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
My only real problem with this issue is the hypocricy of it all. Coaches that know this stuff happens all the time and knows that everyone else knows that this stuff happens all the time will come out and claim this stuff doesn't happen all the time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Any coaching staff or AD that has a kid on their program that gets benefits from alumni is dirty by association whether they claim to know about it or not. They know these things happen all the time and not doing something to make sure it doesn't happen makes them guilty too. Yet every coach ever interviewed claims innocence because they didn't know what alumni outside of the program was doing....... It's a game! They know how to get away with it and I say almost everyone does it to some extent.



Originally posted by RoyceTTU
Agree, and will also say that the major majority of the HC/AD's out there try to run a clean program, but are fighting an uphill battle against boosters doing anything at all cost to win.


FF, do you agree with my quote or do you think many of the coaches know exactly what is going on?

Or better yet, do most HC/ADs fear of what is going on so they try hard not to find out what is going on?

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
It's kind of like when my buddy and I are the only two in the car and one of us breaks silent but deadly wind. We both know exactly who did it yet we argue none the less and still try to blame each other. It's nonsense! We both know it's nonsense! But we still play the game!

Classic post :thumbsup:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
FF, do you agree with my quote or do you think many of the coaches know exactly what is going on?

Or better yet, do most HC/ADs fear of what is going on so they try hard not to find out what is going on?

Like the movie the Program..James Caan did not want to know so he basically just ignored all the signs

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
FF, do you agree with my quote or do you think many of the coaches know exactly what is going on?

Or better yet, do most HC/ADs fear of what is going on so they try hard not to find out what is going on?




I think that most would do it the correct way if they could but the system is set up so that they have a disadvantage if they don't cheat. The environment of win at all costs forces them to push the envelope. We all know that if you get away with a little push for a long time that little push soon becomes a bigger push and then even bigger and then all of the sudden you have rationalized yourself into a full blown cheating scandal.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I did not say schools never committed infractions in history of their program. You said no school is clean I assumed your talking right now present time
No major, contending program. And yes, present tense.

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
This made me think of something. The term "Major Violation" seems to be loosly defined by NCAA. Tech is under sanctions currently for a "Major Violation" for text messages to possible recruits. Seriously??? this seems minor in comparison. If these are "major" what is what Auburn is being accused of or even the fingers that A&M are pointing at LSU today.


All I know, is things are getting real "catty" right now, and I hate that Tuberville is right in the mix of it. I fear schools will be outing other schools so that they look rosey. This will start a chain reaction that will turn bad.
I'm talking about greasing palms. That whole texting stuff with Leach is weak sauce IMO.

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
and BTW I see nothing on Tasby about recruiting violations and payment..if u have an article please link me.
Ehhh, couldn't find any articles on his recruitment either. I just figured there'd be something out there.

Story behind that was his senior year at Carroll he showed up with a brand new Mustang GT one day. He had just committed to Texas.

Only reason I knew that is because I was a friend of some friends/teammates of Tasby's and saw him out with it one night.

Some heat followed him to Austin, but as far as I know he was never implicated. That was Mack's first year, if I remember correctly. Maybe a year before. I know I was a junior in HS.

Shortly thereafter, Texas went from being a third-tier team back to a major player.

There are a few other stories out there. It's not just Texas that's playing this game. Or just Auburn. Or just OU. It's everyone that's a major player.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
My only real problem with this issue is the hypocricy of it all. Coaches that know this stuff happens all the time and knows that everyone else knows that this stuff happens all the time will come out and claim this stuff doesn't happen all the time. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Any coaching staff or AD that has a kid on their program that gets benefits from alumni is dirty by association whether they claim to know about it or not. They know these things happen all the time and not doing something to make sure it doesn't happen makes them guilty too. Yet every coach ever interviewed claims innocence because they didn't know what alumni outside of the program was doing....... It's a game! They know how to get away with it and I say almost everyone does it to some extent.
This is what I'm talking about. Coaches have been exposed to the game, know what's going on. They know how the game is played.

These coaches all bounce around from program to program so all of them have been involved with it to some extent, but it doesn't necessarily mean it was done or even facilitated by the coaches. I'd say it's almost always the boosters.

[CenTexSports]

I think that those who think there are clean programs and those that don't are talking about differences in process.

I believe that there are programs (coaches, AD's & administrators) that try to run a clean program and do a very good job doing so. However, every major program has it's rabid fans that will try to skirt the rules and cause trouble. Ole Miss had one of these that got out of hand about twenty years ago. I met him and he didn't care about what others thought. I was starting up a new plant and he offered me quite a bit of kickback to get my business.

Then there are the programs that have coaches that will skirt the rules and use ever trick to get where they want to be. These are truly dirty programs.

To me this is the difference in the two programs.

[Farmersfan]

A lot of people at the college level turn a blind eye away from the only real logical assumption that can be made. But it isn't just at the college level. Anyone who denies the fact that some powerhouse high school programs in Texas push the rules right to the breaking point or flatout cheat are guilty of doing exactly what a lot of college programs do. Perfect example would be that out of the 50 or so 3A programs that I have personal knowledge of there might be a half dozen with a single coaches son playing on the team. Yet I mentioned once the irony of Gilmer having 3 coaches on their payroll with high school aged football playing sons and I was roasted alive by a ton of you guys. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the truth. Yet a lot of people bury their head in the sand.

Disclaimer: I did not say Gilmer was cheating! I simply pointed out the irony of 3 coaches with star players for sons. don't start hatin' on me..... please!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
A lot of people at the college level turn a blind eye away from the only real logical assumption that can be made. But it isn't just at the college level. Anyone who denies the fact that some powerhouse high school programs in Texas push the rules right to the breaking point or flatout cheat are guilty of doing exactly what a lot of college programs do. Perfect example would be that out of the 50 or so 3A programs that I have personal knowledge of there might be a half dozen with a single coaches son playing on the team. Yet I mentioned once the irony of Gilmer having 3 coaches on their payroll with high school aged football playing sons and I was roasted alive by a ton of you guys. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the truth. Yet a lot of people bury their head in the sand.

Disclaimer: I did not say Gilmer was cheating! I simply pointed out the irony of 3 coaches with star players for sons. don't start hatin' on me..... please!

u were roasted alive ( not by me never saw the thread) because I know that two of the kids who have coaches as dads were literally 7 years old when they went to Gilmer

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
u were roasted alive ( not by me never saw the thread) because I know that two of the kids who have coaches as dads were literally 7 years old when they went to Gilmer



Isn't it tough to get all that sand out of your hair???? :D :D

J/K TXB.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Isn't it tough to get all that sand out of your hair???? :D :D

J/K TXB.

LOL..but I have to ask...why did u even point that out without researching and seeing what the deal was? It was not like Gilmer was hiring a coach who just happen to have a stud son who would be a jr or sr

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
LOL..but I have to ask...why did u even point that out without researching and seeing what the deal was? It was not like Gilmer was hiring a coach who just happen to have a stud son who would be a jr or sr

I don't remember the thread, but it's a very common practice. I know guys who bring their son to interviews with'em.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
I don't remember the thread, but it's a very common practice. I know guys who bring their son to interviews with'em.

oh I agree on that..very common..but he was throwing something out there without knowing

and if I am not mistaken the third coach with a son playing has been at Gilmer for 12 years now( if I am thinking of right coach/son)

[RoyceTTU]

HaHa,,,,this is real funny. He is pissed. This is David Irons. His son was Kenny Irons which played with some of these guys. This is his quote on Auburn website.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=6&f=1010&t=7377074&stm=97354971


Posted: Yesterday 11:12 AM

Re: At the very best, this HBO mess is a massive black eye for

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stanley Mclover and any others who make this claim are full of $$$it. I had 2 guys there who played pretty good during their Auburn careers we never got offerd any cash. so there are a lot of NFL stars who played for Auburn that will say the these cats are full of it. All the good out weighs BAD.

Don't be MAD at AUBURN cause you left school early were doing bad in class anyway and your NFL career never went the way you wanted. I told your A$$ to stay in school cause you couldn't play in a 3-4 D


All I can say is MAN up stick with the cards you played and enjoy life

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
oh I agree on that..very common..but he was throwing something out there without knowing

and if I am not mistaken the third coach with a son playing has been at Gilmer for 12 years now( if I am thinking of right coach/son)



The ONLY thing I threw out there was that Gilmer had 3 coaches with sons playing on the team and it was unusual. And I did KNOW this. I saw a TV special on Gilmer and they introduced the coaches and told about their sons. Your defensiveness just goes to prove my point about people turning a blind eye. My research (as limited as it is) shows that there are probably 6 players on the team who are related to coaches or (field maintenance personel). Are the Fluellen boys(3 of them) related to field maintenance worker LaKevin Fluellen? And is girls track coach Crata Johnson the mother of any of the Johnson boys on the team? ...............:D :D :D

No accusing them of anything TXB. Just pointing out the information.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The ONLY thing I threw out there was that Gilmer had 3 coaches with sons playing on the team and it was unusual. And I did KNOW this. I saw a TV special on Gilmer and they introduced the coaches and told about their sons. Your defensiveness just goes to prove my point about people turning a blind eye. My research (as limited as it is) shows that there are probably 6 players on the team who are related to coaches or (field maintenance personel). Are the Fluellen boys(3 of them) related to field maintenance worker LaKevin Fluellen? And is girls track coach Crata Johnson the mother of any of the Johnson boys on the team? ...............:D :D :D

No accusing them of anything TXB. Just pointing out the information.
I've been knowing the Fluellens and the Johnsons since I was in grade school (a "few" years). Funny how the family trees usually stay close to their roots. I guess it's just a coincidence they are still there, huh? I can tell you for a FACT that the coaches at Gilmer were NOT hired because they had sons who played football. Even if that were the case, wouldn't you want a son of a coach to be on your team. Those kids usually have a leg up on other kids for the simple fact that their dads have taught them the fundamentals all of their lives. When Jeff took over the program at Gilmer (his first AD/HC job), he had to put together a staff, some of which were with him at Jacksonville. I can't remember exactly how many of those coaches are still at Gilmer, but I can tell you it is at least two of them, and both of their sons played football. One of them graduates this year, the other next year. Your insinuations are groundless and not based on facts.

[RoyceTTU]

LOL, FF you gonna get roasted again :D

[WildTexan972]

it is widely known by the types that "KNOW" how college football works that Auburn is one of the dirties and has been for decades....heck, their money guy that organizes it all is a board regent, so it is not like the school does not know what is going on....

Tommie did not quit at Auburn to take a rest - he was offered the "quit on your terms or be fired publicly" offer so he would quit trying to "handle" these issues himself instead of letting those GOB's handle it....that is why I am not a Tommie fan - I want my team to win, but not at the risk of having the trophy taken away years later after the Nazis....I mean NCAA....come to town

at Auburn they know if they win the title, it allows for higher income always, even if the trophy moves away later on....and they don't care about that - they just want to win to spite the elephants down the road....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by WildTexan972

Tommie did not quit at Auburn to take a rest - he was offered the "quit on your terms or be fired publicly" offer so he would quit trying to "handle" these issues himself instead of letting those GOB's handle it....
Don't know where you got your info, but this is absolutely false. You need to verify your facts before saying stuff like this.

Auburn AD Jay Jacobs pleaded with Tubs to stay on. The relationship he had with Jacobs is the reason he became a "consultant" after his tenure as HC.

[Tx Challenge]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Don't know where you got your info, but this is absolutely false. You need to verify your facts before saying stuff like this.

Auburn AD Jay Jacobs pleaded with Tubs to stay on. The relationship he had with Jacobs is the reason he became a "consultant" after his tenure as HC.

Save your Breath BDR......Consider the source:rolleyes:

[WildTexan972]

you are wrong, sir....the AD at Auburn does not have the say in who coaches the football team....


and as for the "source"....prove me wrong dillweed or STHU

simple as that


the GOBs network runs that football program, not the AD....every hire or fire for 30 years has been run thru them and it has not changed now.....having news stories released saying stuff like "begging him to stay" is for looks, not for real.....and he was still owed money on his contract so no wonder he was hired as a "consulatnt".....which means pay him with a title and nothing more.....

go ahead "sourceron".....prove me wrong since YOU seem to think you are so bright.....

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The ONLY thing I threw out there was that Gilmer had 3 coaches with sons playing on the team and it was unusual. And I did KNOW this. I saw a TV special on Gilmer and they introduced the coaches and told about their sons. Your defensiveness just goes to prove my point about people turning a blind eye. My research (as limited as it is) shows that there are probably 6 players on the team who are related to coaches or (field maintenance personel). Are the Fluellen boys(3 of them) related to field maintenance worker LaKevin Fluellen? And is girls track coach Crata Johnson the mother of any of the Johnson boys on the team? ...............:D :D :D

No accusing them of anything TXB. Just pointing out the information.

defensive? How am I being defensive. I am pointing out you claim you were just throwing it out is pure BS

You said

Anyone who denies the fact that some powerhouse high school programs in Texas push the rules right to the breaking point or flatout cheat are guilty of doing exactly what a lot of college programs do. Perfect example would be that out of the 50 or so 3A programs that I have personal knowledge of there might be a half dozen with a single coaches son playing on the team. Yet I mentioned once the irony of Gilmer having 3 coaches on their payroll with high school aged football playing sons and I was roasted alive by a ton of you guys. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the truth.

That is not just pointing it out. you wrapped the info around cheating and people burying their heads in the sand.

Even in this response you claim if someone is defensive they are turning a blind eye when all I did ( and waterboy as well) point out the kids your talking about have been at Gilmer a long time and are not johnny come latelys who were there just because of their football prowess.

That is not being defensive but pointing out the facts

[Phil C]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
No major, contending program. And yes, present tense.

I'm talking about greasing palms. That whole texting stuff with Leach is weak sauce IMO.

Ehhh, couldn't find any articles on his recruitment either. I just figured there'd be something out there.

Story behind that was his senior year at Carroll he showed up with a brand new Mustang GT one day. He had just committed to Texas.

Only reason I knew that is because I was a friend of some friends/teammates of Tasby's and saw him out with it one night.

Some heat followed him to Austin, but as far as I know he was never implicated. That was Mack's first year, if I remember correctly. Maybe a year before. I know I was a junior in HS.

Shortly thereafter, Texas went from being a third-tier team back to a major player.

There are a few other stories out there. It's not just Texas that's playing this game. Or just Auburn. Or just OU. It's everyone that's a major player.

I was told by a friend that was told by a friend that was told by a friend that was told by a friend that he saw someone in a red mustang. :)

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
defensive? How am I being defensive. I am pointing out you claim you were just throwing it out is pure BS

You said

Anyone who denies the fact that some powerhouse high school programs in Texas push the rules right to the breaking point or flatout cheat are guilty of doing exactly what a lot of college programs do. Perfect example would be that out of the 50 or so 3A programs that I have personal knowledge of there might be a half dozen with a single coaches son playing on the team. Yet I mentioned once the irony of Gilmer having 3 coaches on their payroll with high school aged football playing sons and I was roasted alive by a ton of you guys. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the truth.

That is not just pointing it out. you wrapped the info around cheating and people burying their heads in the sand.

Even in this response you claim if someone is defensive they are turning a blind eye when all I did ( and waterboy as well) point out the kids your talking about have been at Gilmer a long time and are not johnny come latelys who were there just because of their football prowess.

That is not being defensive but pointing out the facts



Thank you for your kind words and informational posting TXB. :D :D

Can I help you with all that sand in your ears? :D :D

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by waterboy
I've been knowing the Fluellens and the Johnsons since I was in grade school (a "few" years). Funny how the family trees usually stay close to their roots. I guess it's just a coincidence they are still there, huh? I can tell you for a FACT that the coaches at Gilmer were NOT hired because they had sons who played football. Even if that were the case, wouldn't you want a son of a coach to be on your team. Those kids usually have a leg up on other kids for the simple fact that their dads have taught them the fundamentals all of their lives. When Jeff took over the program at Gilmer (his first AD/HC job), he had to put together a staff, some of which were with him at Jacksonville. I can't remember exactly how many of those coaches are still at Gilmer, but I can tell you it is at least two of them, and both of their sons played football. One of them graduates this year, the other next year. Your insinuations are groundless and not based on facts.



It's not surprising they are still in Gilmer waterboy. Gilmer is a great place to live. Why else do the Barrs, Turners, Traylors, Tates, Johnsons and Fluellens want so badly to have their kids play football there that they go to work for the school as coaches? Makes me wonder how many teachers, bus drivers, cafeteria ladies, facilities maintenance men and bunches of others have made the same great sacrifice to keep their kids in Gilmer sports? :D :D

Sorry! Things are boring as hell on here these days so I'm just rattling some chains.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The ONLY thing I threw out there was that Gilmer had 3 coaches with sons playing on the team and it was unusual. And I did KNOW this. I saw a TV special on Gilmer and they introduced the coaches and told about their sons. Your defensiveness just goes to prove my point about people turning a blind eye. My research (as limited as it is) shows that there are probably 6 players on the team who are related to coaches or (field maintenance personel). Are the Fluellen boys(3 of them) related to field maintenance worker LaKevin Fluellen? And is girls track coach Crata Johnson the mother of any of the Johnson boys on the team? ...............:D :D :D

No accusing them of anything TXB. Just pointing out the information.

Nothing uncommon about that at all. Ive known some programs that were built around coaches' kids. Nothing new at all about hiring coaches b/c they have athletic kids. How do you think Mario Edwards ended up at Denton Ryan?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
defensive? How am I being defensive. I am pointing out you claim you were just throwing it out is pure BS

You said

Anyone who denies the fact that some powerhouse high school programs in Texas push the rules right to the breaking point or flatout cheat are guilty of doing exactly what a lot of college programs do. Perfect example would be that out of the 50 or so 3A programs that I have personal knowledge of there might be a half dozen with a single coaches son playing on the team. Yet I mentioned once the irony of Gilmer having 3 coaches on their payroll with high school aged football playing sons and I was roasted alive by a ton of you guys. Burying your head in the sand doesn't change the truth.

That is not just pointing it out. you wrapped the info around cheating and people burying their heads in the sand.

Even in this response you claim if someone is defensive they are turning a blind eye when all I did ( and waterboy as well) point out the kids your talking about have been at Gilmer a long time and are not johnny come latelys who were there just because of their football prowess.

That is not being defensive but pointing out the facts



Defensive:

: serving to defend or protect <defensive fortifications>
2a : devoted to resisting or preventing aggression or attack <defensive behavior> b : of or relating to the attempt to keep an opponent from scoring in a game or contest <a player with good defensive skills>
3a : valuable in defensive play <a defensive card in bridge>


Yep! Yep! Yep!

I nominate TXB as defenseman of the year. ;)

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Nothing uncommon about that at all. Ive known some programs that were built around coaches' kids. Nothing new at all about hiring coaches b/c they have athletic kids. How do you think Mario Edwards ended up at Denton Ryan?



I certainly never said there was anything wrong with it ETB. Other than pointing out that it appears to either happen a lot at a certain place or is a complete coincidence! I actually think it's smart to hire the daddy of 3 high school aged boys as a "field Maintenance worker" to insure he doesn't move out of town. I just wonder what kind of salary daddy makes pulling weeds on that artificial turf? :D

I'm being unfair! Things are borings on here these days so I'm really just rattlin' chains......... Sorry guys!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by WildTexan972
you are wrong, sir....the AD at Auburn does not have the say in who coaches the football team....


and as for the "source"....prove me wrong dillweed or STHU

simple as that


the GOBs network runs that football program, not the AD....every hire or fire for 30 years has been run thru them and it has not changed now.....having news stories released saying stuff like "begging him to stay" is for looks, not for real.....and he was still owed money on his contract so no wonder he was hired as a "consulatnt".....which means pay him with a title and nothing more.....

go ahead "sourceron".....prove me wrong since YOU seem to think you are so bright.....
linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3744885)

I never said I was bright. I'm just a dillweed. I just said that you weren't.

[WildTexan972]

well I am right, so that solves that....

these issues are easily figured out by following the money, and in college football the REAL money is based out of Vegas, where millions are spent each year to know who the key players are, who they date, what drugs they are on,etc etc etc.....if you want to KNOW what goes on in college sports you start there and disregard the news releases or press conferences or other such foofoo that is put out for the sake of the NCAA to quote and for alumni that are not in the inner circle to feel good about.....in this case, it is Auburn, and the guys I know have been able to call what was going to happen there for 30 years ahead of the actual events because they have sources that KNOW, not sources that make speeches.....Auburn is pretty dirty, and to them the next few programs in order of dirty includes another couple of SEC teams and a Big12 team....all of which have the schools knowing what is going on and helping to minimize what leaks so they keep building up the football programs since that is where the money is.......

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by WildTexan972
well I am right, so that solves that....

these issues are easily figured out by following the money, and in college football the REAL money is based out of Vegas, where millions are spent each year to know who the key players are, who they date, what drugs they are on,etc etc etc.....if you want to KNOW what goes on in college sports you start there and disregard the news releases or press conferences or other such foofoo that is put out for the sake of the NCAA to quote and for alumni that are not in the inner circle to feel good about.....in this case, it is Auburn, and the guys I know have been able to call what was going to happen there for 30 years ahead of the actual events because they have sources that KNOW, not sources that make speeches.....Auburn is pretty dirty, and to them the next few programs in order of dirty includes another couple of SEC teams and a Big12 team....all of which have the schools knowing what is going on and helping to minimize what leaks so they keep building up the football programs since that is where the money is.......
PM me that list.