My Class 3A Realignment

[Matthew328]

REGION I
1-3A
Amarillo River Road
Perryton
Dalhart
Tulia
Childress
Sanford-Fritch

2-3A
Brownfield
Lubbock Cooper
Muleshoe
Littlefield
Slaton
Dimmitt

3-3A
Lamesa
Midland Greenwood
Seminole
Kermit
Monahans
Fabens
Pecos
Ft Stockton

4-3A
Snyder
Sweetwater
San Angelo Grape Creek
Clyde
Merkel
Denver City

5-3A
Early
Brady
Breckenridge
Ballinger
Eastland
Commanche

6-3A
Graham
Vernon
Decatur
Iowa Park
Bridgeport
Bowie

7-3A
Glen Rose
Venus
Godley
Kennedale
Lake Worth
Dublin

8-3A
Sanger
Little Elm
Celina
Pilot Point
Gainesville
Callisburg
Whitesboro
Pottsboro

9-3A
Dallas Pinkston
Dallas Madison
Wilmer-Hutchins
Kaufman
Crandall
Ferris

10-3A
Van Alstyne
Princeton
Royse City
Bonham
Commerce
Nevada Community
Farmersville

11-3A
Brownsboro
Van
Canton
Kemp
Eustace
Malakoff

12-3A
Wills Point
Mineola
Grand Saline
Winnsboro
Emory Rains
Mt Vernon

13-3A
Texarkana Liberty-Eylau
Texarkana Pleasant Grove
Queen City
New Boston
Atlanta
Daingerfield

14-3A
Pittsburg
Gladewater
Sabine
White Oak
Gilmer
Jefferson

15-3A
Rusk
Center
Bullard
Tatum
Quitman
Longview Spring Hill

16-3A
Mexia
Groesbeck
Palestine Westwood
Fairfield
Teague
Trinity

REGION III
17-3A
Gatesville
Waco Connally
Waco LaVega
West
Whitney
Hillsboro

18-3A
Robinson
China Spring
Marlin
McGregor
Rosebudd-Lott
Troy

19-3A
Cameron Yoe
Caldwell
Rockdale
Lorena
Manor
Giddings

20-3A
Madisonville
Cleveland
Diboll
Cleveland Tarkington
Huntington
Crockett

21-3A
Bridge City
Hardin-Jefferson
Hardin
Orangefield
Newton
Kountze

22-3A
Splendora
Huffman
Kirbyville
Buna
Anahuac
Woodville

23-3A
Liberty
Coldspring
Barbers Hill
Sealy
Rice Consolidated
Shepherd

24-3A
LaGrange
Bellville
Hutto
Smithville
Columbus
Hempstead

REGION IV
25-3A
Bandera
Wimberley
Ingram Moore
Llano
Liberty Hill
Somerset

26-3A
LaVernia
South SA West
Poteet
Lytle
Marion
Jourdanton

27-3A
Gonzales
Cuero
Yoakum
Luling
Goliad
Halletsville
Vanderbilt Industrial
Brookshire Royal

28-3A
Wharton
Needville
Stafford
Sweeny
Edna
Palacios

29-3A
Carrizo Springs
Pearsall
Hondo
Devine
Crystal City
Cotulla

30-3A
Sinton
Mathis
Ingleside
Aransas Pass
Corpus Christi West Oso
Taft
George West

31-3A
Falfurrias
Orange Grove
San Diego
Bishop
Hebbronville
Lyford

32-3A
LaFeria
Raymondville
Hidlago
Pt Isabel
Rio Hondo
Porgresso

[Keith7]

looks good Callisburg and Whitesboro already have a rivalry goin for the worst teams in the area

[heck]

Whoa Matthew! You need to get a map. Denver City in the Sweetwater-Syder-Merkel-Clyde-SA Grape Creek? What about Lamesa and Denver City switching?

[true_blue_tiger]

I doubt Daingerfield will remain in the same district as this year! We never have before, as long as I can remember.

[JKLL]

Where's Hampshire-Fannet?

[Ranger Mom]

Where is Fabens???

[sinton66]

Ranger Mom:
Where is Fabens???
originally posted by Matthew 328
3-3A
Lamesa
Midland Greenwood
Seminole
Kermit
Monahans
Fabens
Pecos
Ft Stockton Looks like he did accidentally omit Hampshire-Fannett.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[vet93]

RangerMom...Fabens is out near El Paso. I think it is on the interstate either before or after El Paso. Ballinger played them two years in a row back in the mid eighties in the playoffs. We met them halfway at Pecos one year and they made the trip to Ballinger one year (sure am glad that we won the coin flip that year).


Ranger Mom:
Where is Fabens???

[Ranger Mom]

Thanks Vet,

Thank goodness this is only a "mock" realignment. I would hate to finally be rid of the Presidio trip only to have to go to Fabens!!

[Keith7]

wheres the cutoff between region I and II

[BH_146]

Matthew,
You are right about realignment being a very tough job. Your attempt as well as others that I have viewed so far has had many geographical snafus. So I do emphathize with the people at the UIL. But what gets me about the UIL is their attitude about redistricting. Just like some administrators that I have worked under, the UIL for the most part does the realignment and states accept it. Yes, I know that the UIL will allow schools to appeal. And they may grant an appeal whenever a blue moon passes the sun during the sixth day of a lunar eclipse. (Well, maybe sooner.) But why not release a preliminary relalignment and then review concerns from the people who are affected by those decisions. What negative impact could come about by letting schools have some imput? Suggestions could be sent to committee of coaches; from each region in each of the classes. They would screen what they feel would be the most pertinent and forward this to the UIL for consideration. This time period could take the place of the now appeals time frame.

Just my views.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Districts 31 and 32 look good, the only change i'd make is to switch Lyford and Raymondville. Raymondville is a little more to the north than Lyford.

[pero chato]

You omitted Abilene Wylie. I don't think we've grown enough to be classified as 4A, (in case that was your reasoning).

Never mind. I just read your earlier post with the cut offs.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: pero chato ]</small>

[exbccards76'smom]

Keep Hamshire Fannett in with us, and Let Jasper and Newton stay in their neck of the woods. And maybe UIL will have mercy on Kountze and finally let them go 2A.

[jason]

Forney 4A ???

[Bulldog92]

Oooh...if this is even close, Jasper's back in 4A again. That's interesting...

[3afan]

exbccards76'smom:
Keep Hamshire Fannett in with us, and Let Jasper and Newton stay in their neck of the woods. And maybe UIL will have mercy on Kountze and finally let them go 2A.the UIL does not "let" anyone go anywhere, it all depends on the number the school turns in and the cutoffs for each class

[Gobbla2001]

You CAN request a drop-down or a move-up... Forget how close to the cut-off you have to be, though...

[JasperDog94]

The word I've heard is that Jasper will stay in 3A and also that West Orange Stark will go down to 3A.

[Old Cardinal]

Well thought out Matt; however, H-F should be in with BC, OF etc: Either Buna or Kirbyville might be in that Dist. also...Buna is very close geographically, to BC & OF- while Newton is many miles north of both Kirbyville and Buna. I do agree that 6 teams in each Dist. is only fair.

[spiveyrat]

JasperDog94:
The word I've heard is that Jasper will stay in 3A and also that West Orange Stark will go down to 3A.WOS down to 3A??? Really? Cool! A not-so-old rivalry rekindled! WOS was a team I loved to hate!

If that takes shape, they would be another enormous powerhouse (to the degree of Everman, Burnet, Jasper) in Div. I.

Old Card: Have you heard any news of this?

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: spiveyrat ]</small>

[Matthew328]

yeah my geography is kind of off some..LOL but there are always a few geographical snafus..some done on purpose...sometimes numbers work out where a team has to travel a little ways out of the way in order to complete a district...especially if one district has say 9 teams in a relative proximity and another area a little further off only has 5 teams close..you may take a team from the 9 team area out of their way to make a 6 team district...as for the 3A/4A cut...look for it to DROP...not go up...thus a lot of 3A's may be back in 4A...and bigger 3A's like Wylie, Forney, Burnet, Lake Dallas, etc. will be 4A..Class 3A has the biggest disparity in enrollment thus I am sure the UIL will address this..the likely way they'll address it is increase the number of teams in 5A from 215 to 225...and in 4A from approx. 205 to 220, thus creating a trickle down effect..this year's 3A/4A cut is 899...I am willing to bet it'll be around 860 or so come Feb

[Old Cardinal]

Matt: The word that I am getting is 850 for the top of the 3A enrollment-How many of our 3A's will move up to 4A, do you think? Also, the word is that the bottom enrollment 3A will be approximately 450. That will make 2A climb a little. There are a lot of teams at the lower end of 3A at present that will have grown to reach the 450 enrollment- and remain 3A. Many ecomomically deprived sections of West Texas(drought affected farming areas) and deep East Texas(loss of marginal industry areas), are experiencing deep drops in enrollment, and will be in 2A.

[Old Cardinal]

To S. Rat: WO-S is not the super-powerhouse in 4A that they once were; however,they will be tough customers in 3A-if that happens. They will be equivalent to some of the other high-enrollment schools that now dominate 3A. Looking at the WO-S School District, I would predict that a steep decline in population is taking place. The shipbuilding jobs are way down and overall the job market in technological local industry is demanding skilled scientifically trained people and a lot less jobs available overall.

[Bull Butter]

You have 30-3A as a 7 team district and 31 & 32 as 6 team districts. I would drop Lyford into 32-AAA, where they've always been and keep that as a 7 team district, as it currently is. I would also move Mathis into 31-AAA, thus making 30 & 31 6-team districts.

What do you have as the 3A-2A cut off? I notice you have moved George West back into 3A, but not Odem. Also, 2 years ago, Hebbronville & Bishop were on the 3A-2A bubble.

[Gobbla2001]

Come on, Matt, stick Sealy in our district, heh... B-Royal and Sealy are like 10 miles apart so it really doesn't matter... Just would be a fun district match-up!

[big daddy russ]

Old Cardinal:
Matt: The word that I am getting is 850 for the top of the 3A enrollment-How many of our 3A's will move up to 4A, do you think? Also, the word is that the bottom enrollment 3A will be approximately 450. That will make 2A climb a little. There are a lot of teams at the lower end of 3A at present that will have grown to reach the 450 enrollment- and remain 3A. Many ecomomically deprived sections of West Texas(drought affected farming areas) and deep East Texas(loss of marginal industry areas), are experiencing deep drops in enrollment, and will be in 2A.450 to 850? Wouldn't that drop 3A down to somewhere close to 150 schools? We currently have 210 and have the fewest schools of any classification. Meanwhile, 2A would probably jump into the 230's and 5A and 4A would probably jump into the 240's.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Bull Butter:
What do you have as the 3A-2A cut off? I notice you have moved George West back into 3A, but not Odem. Also, 2 years ago, Hebbronville & Bishop were on the 3A-2A bubble.Well, the post right before yours (Old Cardinal) says that the 3A/2A cutoff is going to be 450. If that is the case, then the following teams would be dropping down into 2A. (using current enrollment figures)

District 1 - Dalhart, Tulia
District 2 - Dimmitt, Littlefield, Muleshoe, Slaton
District 3 - Denver City, Merkel (very close)
District 4 - Kermit
District 5 - Childress
District 6 - Ballinger, Brady, Comanche, Early
District 7 - NONE
District 8 - Godley

District 9 - Celina (but probably not since everybody is moving there from Dallas), Pilot Point, Pottsboro, Van Alstyne
District 10 - Farmersville, Nevada Community
District 11 - Mineola, Winnsboro
District 12 - New Boston, Queen City
District 13 - NONE
District 14 - Eustace
District 15 - Gladewater Sabine, White Oak
District 16 - Bullard, Tatum

District 17 - Whitney (very close)
District 18 - Troy
District 19 - Teague, Trinity
District 20 - Newton (WATCH OUT, 2A!!), Woodville
District 21 - Anauhac, Hardin, Kountze
District 22 - NONE
District 23 - Hempstead
District 24 - Hutto

District 25 - NONE
District 26 - Jourdanton, Lytle, Marion, Poteet (very close)
District 27 - Goliad, Hallettsville, Luling (very close)
District 28 - Altair Rice (very close)
District 29 - Cotulla
District 30 - CC West Oso, Taft
District 31 - Bishop, Orange Grove, San Diego, Hebbronville
District 32 - NONE

I think that 450 is a little too high of a cutoff for 3A. We would need to raise the high end of 3A to get some dropdowns from 4A to make up for the losses from 3A to 2A. I think 400 would be a much better cutoff. A ton of the teams mentioned above have less than 450, but more than 400.

[Old Dog]

You guys aren't thinking politically. The decision as to where final enrollment breaks fall will be made on the next to last day that the UIL committee meets and just after their 3rd highball at their local Austin hangout.

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Old Dog ]</small>

[sinton66]

Bull Butter:
You have 30-3A as a 7 team district and 31 & 32 as 6 team districts. I would drop Lyford into 32-AAA, where they've always been and keep that as a 7 team district, as it currently is. I would also move Mathis into 31-AAA, thus making 30 & 31 6-team districts.

What do you have as the 3A-2A cut off? I notice you have moved George West back into 3A, but not Odem. Also, 2 years ago, Hebbronville & Bishop were on the 3A-2A bubble.Bullbutter, he posted his cut-offs on another thread.
posted July 18, 2003 02:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I took the liberty of making my own mock realignment...I took the 2002 numbers and added the few new schools that I know are coming aboard in 2004....so it isn't by any means perfect..let me tell you..I have new respect for what the people at the UIL do..because it is a TOUGH job..I only did 5A-3A....

Class 5A 1848 and up
Class 4A 1847-817
Class 3A 337-816

[JasperDog94]

Sinton66 - No way is the top of 3A only 816! If that were to happen, a lot of DI schools are going to get creamed in 4A. After being in 4A for years and playing schools twice our enrollment, it's been nice for the first year to finally be one of the larger schools.

But, the difference from bottom to top of 3A is nothing compared to the difference between bottom to top of 4A. I know I'm in the minority here, but that's why I like DI and DII. It gives the smaller schools a chance to compete. Now once you get into 2A I don't know how big a difference it makes, but I like it in 3A and up.

Just my 2 cents.

[big daddy russ]

JasperDog94:
Sinton66 - No way is the top of 3A only 816! If that were to happen, a lot of DI schools are going to get creamed in 4A. After being in 4A for years and playing schools twice our enrollment, it's been nice for the first year to finally be one of the larger schools.

But, the difference from bottom to top of 3A is nothing compared to the difference between bottom to top of 4A. I know I'm in the minority here, but that's why I like DI and DII. It gives the smaller schools a chance to compete. Now once you get into 2A I don't know how big a difference it makes, but I like it in 3A and up.

Just my 2 cents.Hey Jasper, that was just Matt's new cutoff for what he thinks the realignment will look like. Just his opinion. When the UIL does make up the new cutoffs, the top end of the cutoff is going down, we just don't know by how much. Actually, Matt's looks pretty good for the most part, but you are right about the disparity between large and small 4A schools. 4A's been lucky over the years that teams like Jasper and West Orange-Stark don't have more students... there would be noone that could stop them. Your talent pool over in that neck of the woods is amazing.

By the way, this is the kind of situation a 6A would help with greatly. As Sinton66 mentioned in another post on another thread, the financial aspects of having a 6A classification make it tough to work, but if they could it would relieve the disparity between the lower classes a whole lot.

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: big daddy russ ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

I don't see it going that bad for the D1 schools that move up to 4A (if it happens)

You have to remember, Jasper didn't come down from 4A and start kickin' tail all of the sudden... They started their damage the year before in 4A... If you ask me, they did better in 4A two years ago then they did in 3A this past year...

[JasperDog94]

Gobbla, your correct about Jasper doing pretty well in 4A. But the difference between pretty good and great was why we made it to the semi-finals in football. And that is after the head football coach left. No doubt we would have done okay in 4A again, but nowhere near as good as 3A.

BDR, the major problem with 6A would be logistics. We already have problems with the fact that in North and West Texas the schools are so far apart. You add another classification in there and these financially strapped schools are going to start cutting costs by not making long trips. I'm not against a 6A division, but I do also like the DI and DII approach.

West Orange and Jasper have continually had good football teams and competed well in 4A, but generally speaking, you'll run up on someone that has 600-800 more students than you in the playoffs and the law of averages catches up to you.

Is it time for kickoff yet..

[Gobbla2001]

I think 3A is bad right now...

345's (let's say 350) is the lowest you can have for 3A, 899 (let's say 900) is the highest enrollment you can have for 3A...

Seems close enough, right?

Not to me... 350 students, say half are male, that leaves you with 175 males, say a 4th of those play football, that leaves you with around 43 players coming out to the play football...

900 students, say half are male, that leaves you with 450 males, say a fourth of those come out to the play football, that's over 100 athletes coming out to play... That's bad...

I know the difference in 4A would be larger, but once you get up into their numbers it wouldn't really give THAT big of an advantage until hitting 5A numbers...

6A would help this out a bunch... But what it would do is shorten up a classification REALLY bad (most likely 2A) leaving less competition in the classification!

[sinton66]

On the other thread, I also mention logistics and what I see as a possible solution. The UIL could pass down predetermined neutral sites for the worst cases of travel time. The coaching staffs would then have to schedule around those. For instance, if team A and team B were a long distance apart, they would be predetermined to play at town C in a particular week. Town C would then have to schedule an away game that week. A good logistics computer program should be able to handle stuff like this. That would make implementation of six major classifications much easier.

[Matthew328]

You are right...if it was 450-850...there wouldn't be enough schools..thus lies the problem with Class 3A...there just aren't enough medium sized schools state wide..thus the disparity in 3A is large....and it likely always will be.....I tried cutting into this disparity by adding more 4A and 5A schools in my realignemnt..but really all I did was push the numbers back both ways...to 337-816...but that is a little better than 347-899.....

[Gobbla2001]

So basically what we have here is a problem that really can't be fixed unless another problem takes its place...

It should just be left the way it is... No 6A!

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Gobbla2001 ]</small>

[Matthew328]

I wouldn't mind seeing it stay 6 Man through 5A..just find a way to get rid of 2 state champs..heck I'd support 4 playoff teams per district if it meant every team being in 1 bracket!

[Gobbla2001]

That'd be a long playoff season... Sounds good to me...

Pro's and Con's anyone?

[JasperDog94]

Going back to Gobbla's comment about the number of actual football players that come out to play. That's exactly why we need DI and DII in 3A. You're not going to have a school with 350 playing a playoff team with 900. Is there going to be disparity? Sure. But not as drastic as you made it sound. I agree that having two state champs is not exactly the best thing. It kinda stinks to have 2 state champs per classification, but it does lower the disparity between the schools.

No system is perfect, but I like it pretty good the way it is. Remeber when we used to decide a tied football game on penetrations? Man did that ever bite. :mad:

[spiveyrat]

Gobbla2001:
I don't see it going that bad for the D1 schools that move up to 4A (if it happens)

You have to remember, Jasper didn't come down from 4A and start kickin' tail all of the sudden... They started their damage the year before in 4A... If you ask me, they did better in 4A two years ago then they did in 3A this past year...I guess you must be referring to the caliber of teams Jasper played two years ago??? Because Jasper went farther in the playoffs this past year than they did two years ago. But, even if Jasper would have been in 4A last year, I think they would have had similar results as they did as a 3A school.

[3afan]

boys - the UIL does not set pre-determined enrollment limits during realignments ... the top X number of schools will be 5A, the next X number 4A, the next X number 3A, etc. now obviuosly there will need to be some "adjustments" to ensure districts get 6 or 8 teams - at least thats the goal. its an immense task that will - no matter how it turns out - make many schools/towns mad at where they are placed. overall i think the UIL does a good job.