An Humble Question For Orange Machine!

[Briefcase]

The prophesy used in Isa 19 about Egypt came true in the First Century. One of the first Christian churches started in Egypt by Mark around 68 A.D. and still exists there today! They are called Coptic Christians.

So, Orange Machine, What do you base the fact that this prophecy has a second fulfilment today?

I can show historical documents where Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans as Jesus, Daniel (and many others) predicted it would be.

So, are you saying that Egypt gets destroyed again even though Isaiah's prophesy came true concerning Egypt many centuries ago?

Is it going to happen a second time to Egypt? If so, how do you know when Isaiah is talking about the first time and when he is talking about the second time Egypt gets destroyed, in the same passage? Where is the separation in Scripture?


Scripture has a meaning in its immediate context unless the context gives it a second meaning or "fuller" meaning.

Where do you get your authority for using Isaiah's prophecy about Egypt in a second destruction during our time? (As opposed to Isaiah's time?)

How can Isaiah's passage be given separate and a secondary meaning when there is nothing in Isaiah's context to indicate a secondary fulfillment is required?

LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE:

FROM THE ROOT AND STUMP OF JESSE

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 700 B.C.

Isaiah 11:1-5 [1] A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. [2] The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD-- [3] and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; [4] but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. [5] Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist. 700 B.C.

When Isa. 11:10 says, "In that day..." Has that happened?

Yes, we know it has because this is a prophecy concerning Christ's FIRST coming.

Yet, only eight chapters later in Isa 19, you argue for an interpretation that brings fulfillment in Egypt during OUR time and then you say it regards the SECOND coming of Christ!

Simply show me in the context of Isaiah where Isaiah stopped prophecying about the FIRST coming of Christ and started prophesying about the SECOND coming of Christ.

I would be willing to bet you can't find that scripture where Isaiah makes that transition.

You are picking and choosing as it suits what you have been mistakenly taught!

Simply tell me how you determine when to switch between prophesies of Christ's first coming and his second coming within the same Old or New Testament book. Blessings!

[Sweetwater Red]

dre you'd better hurry. :doh:

[Old LB]

Hell hath no fury like Ranger Mom. :D

[pirate4state]

Seriously? First post?

Is Orange Machine banned?

[Cam]

you tell em' briefcase!

[orange machine]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Seriously? First post?

Is Orange Machine banned?
No I'm not banned, but I can't comment on this per RangerMom sure don't need her wrath upon me!:D

[orange machine]

Briefcase I'll pm you.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Briefcase
The prophesy used in Isa 19 about Egypt came true in the First Century. One of the first Christian churches started in Egypt by Mark around 68 A.D. and still exists there today! They are called Coptic Christians.

So, Orange Machine, What do you base the fact that this prophecy has a second fulfilment today?

I can show historical documents where Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans as Jesus, Daniel (and many others) predicted it would be.

So, are you saying that Egypt gets destroyed again even though Isaiah's prophesy came true concerning Egypt many centuries ago?

Is it going to happen a second time to Egypt? If so, how do you know when Isaiah is talking about the first time and when he is talking about the second time Egypt gets destroyed, in the same passage? Where is the separation in Scripture?


Scripture has a meaning in its immediate context unless the context gives it a second meaning or "fuller" meaning.

Where do you get your authority for using Isaiah's prophecy about Egypt in a second destruction during our time? (As opposed to Isaiah's time?)

How can Isaiah's passage be given separate and a secondary meaning when there is nothing in Isaiah's context to indicate a secondary fulfillment is required?

LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE:

FROM THE ROOT AND STUMP OF JESSE

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 700 B.C.

Isaiah 11:1-5 [1] A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. [2] The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD-- [3] and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; [4] but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. [5] Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist. 700 B.C.

When Isa. 11:10 says, "In that day..." Has that happened?

Yes, we know it has because this is a prophecy concerning Christ's FIRST coming.

Yet, only eight chapters later in Isa 19, you argue for an interpretation that brings fulfillment in Egypt during OUR time and then you say it regards the SECOND coming of Christ!

Simply show me in the context of Isaiah where Isaiah stopped prophecying about the FIRST coming of Christ and started prophesying about the SECOND coming of Christ.

I would be willing to bet you can't find that scripture where Isaiah makes that transition.

You are picking and choosing as it suits what you have been mistakenly taught!

Simply tell me how you determine when to switch between prophesies of Christ's first coming and his second coming within the same Old or New Testament book. Blessings!



Isn't it funny how Gods Word could be so confusing and misunderstood?

Would anyone honestly think this to be God's intent?

[TheDOCTORdre]

whats confusing?

[crzyjournalist03]

well, he's probably got his briefcase packed because he knows he's just passing through...

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Isn't it funny how Gods Word could be so confusing and misunderstood?

Would anyone honestly think this to be God's intent?

It really isnt confusing. People just pick and choose verses and plug them into their desired meaning. No different than if I wrote a large story about Brownwoods season this year. It would be loaded with tons of highlights and great remarks about players and coaches alike. However, I would have to add a "negative" comment or two if I wanted the story to hold water. Then, anyone could take my "negative" comment and spin it showing that I do not like Brownwood. However, if you read the whole story, that couldnt be further from the truth. If you are going to bring forth "Gods Word", you have to bring it all, not just parts.




BEAST

[orange machine]

I've got my information from Joel C. Rosenberg and have read some commentary from other Prophetic ministers.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by orange machine
I've got my information from Joel C. Rosenberg and have read some commentary from other Prophetic ministers.


What makes these ministers able to be prophets? Are they devine? Touched by God?




BEAST

[orange machine]

Originally posted by BEAST
What makes these ministers able to be prophets? Are they devine? Touched by God?




BEAST

I guess the same could be asked about any minister or pastor? I'm not saying these people are prophets i will say they know prophecy way better than I. I like to see what they say and then go to the word and see what it says.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Briefcase
The prophesy used in Isa 19 about Egypt came true in the First Century. One of the first Christian churches started in Egypt by Mark around 68 A.D. and still exists there today! They are called Coptic Christians.

So, Orange Machine, What do you base the fact that this prophecy has a second fulfilment today?

I can show historical documents where Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans as Jesus, Daniel (and many others) predicted it would be.

So, are you saying that Egypt gets destroyed again even though Isaiah's prophesy came true concerning Egypt many centuries ago?

Is it going to happen a second time to Egypt? If so, how do you know when Isaiah is talking about the first time and when he is talking about the second time Egypt gets destroyed, in the same passage? Where is the separation in Scripture?


Scripture has a meaning in its immediate context unless the context gives it a second meaning or "fuller" meaning.

Where do you get your authority for using Isaiah's prophecy about Egypt in a second destruction during our time? (As opposed to Isaiah's time?)

How can Isaiah's passage be given separate and a secondary meaning when there is nothing in Isaiah's context to indicate a secondary fulfillment is required?

LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE:

FROM THE ROOT AND STUMP OF JESSE

Isaiah 11:10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 700 B.C.

Isaiah 11:1-5 [1] A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. [2] The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD-- [3] and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; [4] but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. [5] Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist. 700 B.C.

When Isa. 11:10 says, "In that day..." Has that happened?

Yes, we know it has because this is a prophecy concerning Christ's FIRST coming.

Yet, only eight chapters later in Isa 19, you argue for an interpretation that brings fulfillment in Egypt during OUR time and then you say it regards the SECOND coming of Christ!

Simply show me in the context of Isaiah where Isaiah stopped prophecying about the FIRST coming of Christ and started prophesying about the SECOND coming of Christ.

I would be willing to bet you can't find that scripture where Isaiah makes that transition.

You are picking and choosing as it suits what you have been mistakenly taught!

Simply tell me how you determine when to switch between prophesies of Christ's first coming and his second coming within the same Old or New Testament book. Blessings!


:eek::eek: :eek:

[BEAST]

Originally posted by orange machine
I guess the same could be asked about any minister or pastor? I'm not saying these people are prophets i will say they know prophecy way better than I. I like to see what they say and then go to the word and see what it says.

Not really. I dont know of many ministers going around saying the world is coming to an end and that prophecy is about to be revealed.




BEAST

[BaseballUmp]

Present :wave:

[orange machine]

Originally posted by BEAST
Not really. I dont know of many ministers going around saying the world is coming to an end and that prophecy is about to be revealed.




BEAST

I haven't said the world is coming to an end. I do believe we are living in the season of the end. Either way RangerMom asked that we stop. My point was made many people read the commentary I posted weather they believe it or not it us up to the individual believer to believe or not believe. I hope that atleast at has opened some eyes as to where we are at.

[Briefcase]

When Jesus’ disciples asked Him, “What is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matt. 24:3), they must have had in mind the destruction of the temple; Jesus had just told them that the temple was going to be completely destroyed (Matthew 24:2). For the disciples, the destruction of the Holy Temple would have been viewed as nothing less than a massive upheaval or end of their entire religious/political world. So it’s not surprising they would connect the destruction of the temple with the final coming of the King and with the end of the age (cf. Isa. 66:6).

Jesus said, “Many false christs will rise up, and false prophets” (Matt. 24:24). The rising up of many impostors was a sign that the last days had arrived. The apostle John understood that this was being fulfilled in the first century A.D. when he said, “...it is the last hour, and as you heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have risen up; by this you know that it is the last hour” (I John 2:18). John told his readers in this verse that they could know it was “the last hour” (the last hour of Biblical Judaism) because “many antichrists” had risen up. In other words, since Jesus said that many false christs and false prophets would appear in the last days, John and the other Christians knew the end was indeed near for them because many of the deceivers had already appeared.

Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14). The good news had been preached to all the world by the time the book of Romans and the book of Colossians were written in the first century. (Romans 10:18) “Their voice (the voice of those preaching the good news) has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world”. (Col. 1:23) “This...gospel...has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven”. And shortly after the good news was preached in the whole world in the first century, the end of the Old Testament world came in fiery judgment in A.D. 70, at the destruction of Christ’s enemies.

Finally, in Matthew 24, Jesus said, “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things have happened.” “This generation” means the same thing here as it does in all other places in the NT. It speaks of those living at that time. So all of Matthew 24 was indeed fulfilled within the forty year period between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem.

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!

[sinton66]

Originally posted by Briefcase
When Jesus’ disciples asked Him, “What is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?” (Matt. 24:3), they must have had in mind the destruction of the temple; Jesus had just told them that the temple was going to be completely destroyed (Matthew 24:2). For the disciples, the destruction of the Holy Temple would have been viewed as nothing less than a massive upheaval or end of their entire religious/political world. So it’s not surprising they would connect the destruction of the temple with the final coming of the King and with the end of the age (cf. Isa. 66:6).

Jesus said, “Many false christs will rise up, and false prophets” (Matt. 24:24). The rising up of many impostors was a sign that the last days had arrived. The apostle John understood that this was being fulfilled in the first century A.D. when he said, “...it is the last hour, and as you heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have risen up; by this you know that it is the last hour” (I John 2:18). John told his readers in this verse that they could know it was “the last hour” (the last hour of Biblical Judaism) because “many antichrists” had risen up. In other words, since Jesus said that many false christs and false prophets would appear in the last days, John and the other Christians knew the end was indeed near for them because many of the deceivers had already appeared.

Jesus said, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14). The good news had been preached to all the world by the time the book of Romans and the book of Colossians were written in the first century. (Romans 10:18) “Their voice (the voice of those preaching the good news) has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world”. (Col. 1:23) “This...gospel...has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven”. And shortly after the good news was preached in the whole world in the first century, the end of the Old Testament world came in fiery judgment in A.D. 70, at the destruction of Christ’s enemies.

Finally, in Matthew 24, Jesus said, “This generation will by no means pass away until all these things have happened.” “This generation” means the same thing here as it does in all other places in the NT. It speaks of those living at that time. So all of Matthew 24 was indeed fulfilled within the forty year period between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem.

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!

These types of discussions are allowed in the Donating Members Forum only. Please review our rules.