Flozell Adams [Archive] - Texas DownLow Forum

GrTigers6

01-26-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by forum_guy
How funny is it that Dallas cut him and now he is starting RT for the Steelers in the Super Bowl? I would assume he is happy to be out of underachieving Dallas. He was a big reason they were underachieving, At least on offense anyway

Bullaholic

01-26-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by forum_guy
How funny is it that Dallas cut him and now he is starting RT for the Steelers in the Super Bowl? I would assume he is happy to be out of underachieving Dallas.

And the Cowboys are glad they no longer have an underachieving, poor pass protecting, penalty collecting tackle at the end of his playing career.

Farmersfan

01-26-2011, 01:03 PM

I think I remember Flozell being a Pro Bowler in Dallas about 5 times! One year before he was cut he was a Pro Bowler and 2 years before he was voted ALL PRO! He had his issues with false start penalties but until the injury to his knee he was still one of the best tackles in the game. I say it's great to see Flozell have a little success outside of Dallas after everyone here put so much of the undeserved blame on him. Way to go Flozell!

Txbroadcaster

01-26-2011, 01:06 PM

Farmer lol..u and those Pro Bowls

GrTigers6

01-26-2011, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I think I remember Flozell being a Pro Bowler in Dallas about 5 times! One year before he was cut he was a Pro Bowler and 2 years before he was voted ALL PRO! He had his issues with false start penalties but until the injury to his knee he was still one of the best tackles in the game. I say it's great to see Flozell have a little success outside of Dallas after everyone here put so much of the undeserved blame on him. Way to go Flozell! Flozell was one of the best tackles in the league. But the key word there is WAS. He had fallen off so much that he was so worried about getting a head start on the block or just wasnt into the game. He even admitted to taking plays off during his last few years

Lucky2Coach

01-26-2011, 01:40 PM

Funny how that stuff doesn't happen for Flozell in Pittsburgh... It's amazing what talent evaluation and accountability from an organization can do for a team. Take a lesson...Jerry!

Originally posted by Bullaholic
And the Cowboys are glad they no longer have an underachieving, poor pass protecting, penalty collecting tackle at the end of his playing career.

Txbroadcaster

01-26-2011, 01:47 PM

GreenMonster

01-26-2011, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by GrTigers6
Flozell was one of the best tackles in the league. But the key word there is WAS. He had fallen off so much that he was so worried about getting a head start on the block or just wasnt into the game. He even admitted to taking plays off during his last few years Maybe the Cowboys should have just moved him from the left tackle to the right tackle like the Steelers did so he wasn't facing everyone's speed rusher. Also, Flozell is legally deaf in his right ear which is why he played RIGHT tackle in college, so that his good left ear was towards the QB. Just saying...:rolleyes:

Txbroadcaster

01-26-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by GreenMonster
Also, Flozell is legally deaf in his right ear which is why he played RIGHT tackle in college, so that his good left ear was towards the QB. Just saying...:rolleyes:

yep..because Flozell did not want a big deal made of it that was never really talked about, but it was an issue....in saying that he was a very good LT for years, but his salary was way to much to put him at RT...He was a huge bargain for the Steelers, BUT was also not expected to be a starter till injuries hit the Steelers

Macarthur

01-26-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Lucky2Coach
Funny how that stuff doesn't happen for Flozell in Pittsburgh... It's amazing what talent evaluation and accountability from an organization can do for a team. Take a lesson...Jerry!

Actually, there are several sites that do some pretty sophisticated matrix on OL performance. Flozell was one of the worst RTs in the NFL this year. Ironically, all of Pitt's OL was below average in those matrix.

Flo was and is in decline. And he wasn't going to be in Dallas more for his salary than his ability.

Bullaholic

01-26-2011, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Lucky2Coach
Funny how that stuff doesn't happen for Flozell in Pittsburgh... It's amazing what talent evaluation and accountability from an organization can do for a team. Take a lesson...Jerry!

Let's see how well he does in a couple of weeks if he has to block Clay Matthews. Anybody wanna guess who wins that matchup 10/10 times?

TheDOCTORdre

01-26-2011, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Let's see how well he does in a couple of weeks if he has to block Clay Matthews. Anybody wanna guess who wins that matchup 10/10 times?

Big Ben

Farmersfan

01-26-2011, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Farmer lol..u and those Pro Bowls

Yea I know TXB! I suppose your right that it doesn't mean anything for coaches, players and fans to vote a player one of the top 2 left tackles in the entire NFL!!!!! Or are you saying Flozell swapped votes with enough other players in the league to get voted in???? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Farmersfan

01-26-2011, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Macarthur
Actually, there are several sites that do some pretty sophisticated matrix on OL performance. Flozell was one of the worst RTs in the NFL this year. Ironically, all of Pitt's OL was below average in those matrix.

Flo was and is in decline. And he wasn't going to be in Dallas more for his salary than his ability.

His last season in Dallas was pretty bad with that knee injury! He was beat on the outside rush so many times like he didn't have any legs. And I don't think he did very good in Pittsburg this season either. But we have something like 1000 pages on this forum talking about how piss-poor our O-lineman were this year in Dallas. Could Flozell have been any worst?
but like you said, he would have been too expensive for the Cowboys.

Txbroadcaster

01-26-2011, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Yea I know TXB! I suppose your right that it doesn't mean anything for coaches, players and fans to vote a player one of the top 2 left tackles in the entire NFL!!!!

Well lets see

he is a 5 time Pro Bowl players

in 04 voted

in 05 was an injury replacment for another player

06 was an alternate but again because of injuries went all the way to being a starter

07 was voted as a starter( only year he was an NFL All-Pro)

08 Again alternate but got on the team because was named as a replacement

So of the 5 he was voted in twice as one of the top LTs...the other 3...he got in once others either were hurt or decided not to play

THAT is why I say listing someone as a Pro Bowl so many times in their career IMO does not hold water...someone can become a pro bowl player simply because 3 players in fron of him dont play in the pro bowl, then boom he is in.

Z-RO

01-27-2011, 04:08 AM

People always want to gripe about his false starts but what else do you expect when you have a guy who is def in his right ear playing LT? I always wondered why they just didn't move him to RT. :confused:

PPHSfan

01-27-2011, 04:16 AM

Z-RO

01-27-2011, 05:39 AM

So take the pay cut and move to RT. Its not like he foreseen this run with Pittsburgh. I doubt Jerry even considered it.

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Well lets see

he is a 5 time Pro Bowl players

in 04 voted

in 05 was an injury replacment for another player

06 was an alternate but again because of injuries went all the way to being a starter

07 was voted as a starter( only year he was an NFL All-Pro)

08 Again alternate but got on the team because was named as a replacement

So of the 5 he was voted in twice as one of the top LTs...the other 3...he got in once others either were hurt or decided not to play

THAT is why I say listing someone as a Pro Bowl so many times in their career IMO does not hold water...someone can become a pro bowl player simply because 3 players in fron of him dont play in the pro bowl, then boom he is in.

Granted TXB! So by your admission it means a lot LESS to get in as the third best left tackle because the #1 and #2 best is hurt??? Seriously, that is your arguement? Based on how much you have dissed the Pro Bowl a person would think that average players were being voted in. I don't care if a player is considered the #5 best in the NFL it is still a major accomplishment!
Would you at least agree that getting voted into the Pro Bowl certainly means you are considered top 5 in the NFL? (perhaps not according to TXB but according to most other people)

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Would you at least agree that getting voted into the Pro Bowl certainly means you are considered top 5 in the NFL? (perhaps not according to TXB but according to most other people)

No..I have read to many articles about the problem with the pro bowl and how no one takes it seriously.

ogg

01-27-2011, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Z-RO
People always want to gripe about his false starts but what else do you expect when you have a guy who is def in his right ear playing LT? I always wondered why they just didn't move him to RT. :confused:

What was bad is he would get beat on the outside in pass rush and would HOLD to make up for it.

Rome became a pocket passer after his 68 million contract and never has changed. Adams just wasn't a good fit. Ben R. is more mobile.

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
No..I have read to many articles about the problem with the pro bowl and how no one takes it seriously.

"No one takes it seriously"?

Show me a single article that says this! Perhaps certain people don't take it seriously! A lot of the issues with the Pro Bowl have been what you mentioned with alternates getting starts because of injuries and stories of players swapping votes. I acknowledged this! But even being on the ballot in the first place indicates you are considered in the top percentile at your position in the entire NFL. So regardless if a player is a alternate or not he is still classified as one of the best at his postition if he makes it into the Pro Bowl. Nobody has ever said Flozell was the #1 left tackle in the league for his whole career. But his 5 Pro Bowls and 1 All Pro selections prove he was considered at least one of the top left tackles. (at least for those seasons).
The system isn't perfect but neither is any other system!

PPHSfan

01-27-2011, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by Z-RO
So take the pay cut and move to RT. Its not like he foreseen this run with Pittsburgh. I doubt Jerry even considered it.

And then what? Just fire the guy playing right tackle that does his job and doesn't jump offsides?

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by ogg
What was bad is he would get beat on the outside in pass rush and would HOLD to make up for it.

Rome became a pocket passer after his 68 million contract and never has changed. Adams just wasn't a good fit. Ben R. is more mobile.

His last season with Dallas was pretty bad for Flozell! His bad knee caused him have to take shortcuts to just keep up. And once he got a rep with the referees it was all but over. Just like the Dallas cornerbacks this season! They got a rep with the referees for holding and got called for it way, way too often. I see 2X or 3X more holding and contact from the two Superbowl teams that never get called than I ever saw from Newman or Jenkins but once the refs get you in their sights you are doomed in the NFL. Eric William's whole career was basically eliminated by the attention from the refs! (and the car wreck).

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
"No one takes it seriously"?

Show me a single article that says this!

I have done that before on here Farmer.

crzyjournalist03

01-27-2011, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I don't care if a player is considered the #5 best in the NFL it is still a major accomplishment!
Would you at least agree that getting voted into the Pro Bowl certainly means you are considered top 5 in the NFL? (perhaps not according to TXB but according to most other people)

Tony Romo has been to the Pro Bowl in three of his four years, and was probably headed for a fourth before he got hurt this year.

So see, you just admitted that he's a top-five QB in the NFL.

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Tony Romo has been to the Pro Bowl in three of his four years, and was probably headed for a fourth before he got hurt this year.

So see, you just admitted that he's a top-five QB in the NFL.

I have never denied this! Tony's stats have him ranked as one of the top QB's in the league. What I have always said is that his stats were more the result of the team he plays for rather than what Tony does himself! And I think Kitna pretty much proved that this season. Kitna had a career season with this team and this team played their worst football in the last 5 years! If Jon Kitna could put up the kinds of numbers he put up with the team playing like it did then there are probably 25 QB's in the NFL that could put up those numbers! Kind of puts Romo's numbers into perspective doesn't it? And I have repeatedly said that Tony is probably the best option for the Cowboys at this time. I just wish they would not close the door on trying to upgrade that position too!

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I have never denied this! Tony's stats have him ranked as one of the top QB's in the league. What I have always said is that his stats were more the result of the team he plays for rather than what Tony does himself! And I think Kitna pretty much proved that this season. Kitna had a career season with this team and this team played their worst football in the last 5 years! If Jon Kitna could put up the kinds of numbers he put up with the team playing like it did then there are probably 25 QB's in the NFL that could put up those numbers! Kind of puts Romo's numbers into perspective doesn't it? And I have repeatedly said that Tony is probably the best option for the Cowboys at this time. I just wish they would not close the door on trying to upgrade that position too!

so Tony's stats are all because the talent around him...Could you not turn around and say that the talent around him is good because of what Tony does?

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
so Tony's stats are all because the talent around him...Could you not turn around and say that the talent around him is good because of what Tony does?

Why do you take things out of context TXB! I never said Tony's stats are ALL because of the talent around him. I said Tony's stats were MORE the result of the team around him than just what he does. Of course Romo had to play well to get those stats but in my opinion a lot of QBs in this league would be able to perform as well with this team. As Jon Kitna did! A young and "in his prime" Romo barely performed better than a old has-been backup Jon Kitna with the exact same team. Better, but just barely! I think the case has been proven!

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Why do you take things out of context TXB! I never said Tony's stats are ALL because of the talent around him. I said Tony's stats were MORE the result of the team around him than just what he does. Of course Romo had to play well to get those stats but in my opinion a lot of QBs in this league would be able to perform as well with this team. As Jon Kitna did! A young and "in his prime" Romo barely performed better than a old has-been backup Jon Kitna with the exact same team. Better, but just barely! I think the case has been proven!

barely??!?!..Really?

Romo finished with a 94 rating..so lets say he stays right there..that would have put him 7th in the NFL...Kitna finished 8 spots behind him at 15th

Kitna had 30 less yards a game passing..threw for less YPA..completed 4 % less of hiss passes..had a higher int ratio

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
barely??!?!..Really?

Romo finished with a 94 rating..so lets say he stays right there..that would have put him 7th in the NFL...Kitna finished 8 spots behind him at 15th

Kitna had 30 less yards a game passing..threw for less YPA..completed 4 % less of hiss passes..had a higher int ratio

Remove the first 3 games where even you said the rest of the team had quite and here are Kitna's numbers: (7 game vs Romo's 6 games)

97.5 rating= #5 in the NFL (better than Romo)
8.0 yards per completion= #5 in NFL (Better than Romo)
31 points per game. #2 in the NFL (8 pt better than Romo)
2.91 int.% vs Romo's 3.3% (better than Romo)
.85 int per game vs 1.17 for Romo (better than Romo)
1.71 TDs per game vs 1.83 fpr Romo(Romo was better)
68% completions vs 69.5 for Romo (Romo was better)
4-3 record for Kitna vs 1-5 for Romo !!!!!!!!

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Remove the first 3 games where even you said the rest of the team had quite and here are Kitna's numbers: (7 game vs Romo's 6 games)

97.5 rating= #5 in the NFL (better than Romo)
8.0 yards per completion= #5 in NFL (Better than Romo)
31 points per game. #2 in the NFL (8 pt better than Romo)
2.91 int.% vs Romo's 3.3% (better than Romo)
.85 int per game vs 1.17 for Romo (better than Romo)
1.71 TDs per game vs 1.83 fpr Romo(Romo was better)
68% completions vs 69.5 for Romo (Romo was better)
4-3 record for Kitna vs 1-5 for Romo !!!!!!!!

Wait??

we get to remove games?!?!?! HAHAHAHA

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Wait??

we get to remove games?!?!?! HAHAHAHA

Really? That's your answer? You assume that Romo would have continued with career high numbers through the rest of the season and yet you call me out for removing 3 games that Kitna had to play without much help at all? Seriously?
I compared the games that Kitna played that would most closely resemble what Romo had to contend with to get those numbers! And Romo's numbers included a game against the Giants where the Dallas defense gave Romo the ball 3 times inside the Giants red zone where he managed a 127 QB rating in only about 5 minutes (7 pass attempts) of playing time before he got hurt!

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Really? That's your answer? You assume that Romo would have continued with career high numbers through the rest of the season and yet you call me out for removing 3 games that Kitna had to play without much help at all? Seriously?
I compared the games that Kitna played that would most closely resemble what Romo had to contend with to get those numbers! And Romo's numbers included a game against the Giants where the Dallas defense gave Romo the ball 3 times inside the Giants red zone where he managed a 127 QB rating in only about 5 minutes (7 pass attempts) of playing time before he got hurt!

Romo's season was not on a path of career high numbers.

And honestly if your going to compare games from Kitna that would resemble Romo's then you would ONLY go on the games they both played with Wade Phillips as HC...because those are the only games that they both played in with everything being the same

BEAST

01-27-2011, 04:27 PM

So, how was Flozells season?:thinking:

BEAST

bobcat1

01-27-2011, 04:40 PM

Yea, is there a condensed version?

crzyjournalist03

01-27-2011, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by bobcat1
Yea, is there a condensed version?

I don't think condensed is a good word to use in regard to anything related to Flozell.

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Romo's season was not on a path of career high numbers.

And honestly if your going to compare games from Kitna that would resemble Romo's then you would ONLY go on the games they both played with Wade Phillips as HC...because those are the only games that they both played in with everything being the same

Yea, you are correct. It wouldn't be fair to Kitna to compare his numbers after Wade left to Romo's numbers before Wade left. The team played way worst after Wade left than they did before!

Farmersfan

01-27-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Yea, you are correct. It wouldn't be fair to Kitna to compare his numbers after Wade left to Romo's numbers before Wade left. The team played way worst after Wade left than they did before!

Actually I think the offense was better with Kitna but the defense was way worse after Garrett took over!

Txbroadcaster

01-27-2011, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Actually I think the offense was better with Kitna but the defense was way worse after Garrett took over!

wow..ok..you keep playing that game

Z-RO

01-27-2011, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by PPHSfan
And then what? Just fire the guy playing right tackle that does his job and doesn't jump offsides?

Here is the question, would it have been an upgrade? Colombo looked HORRIBLE this season, so I would think so. Who said anything about firing him? Move Adams to RT and find you a LT in FA or via trade. The Chargers' starting LT held out for almost half of the season and were open to trading him for Barber but the Cowboys were not interested. Considering the lack of carriers Barbers received this season I would have to say this was a stupid decision. Jerry had an uncapped year with the Super Bowl in his house and didn't spend a dime extra to upgrade the roster :doh:

TheDOCTORdre

01-27-2011, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Granted TXB! So by your admission it means a lot LESS to get in as the third best left tackle because the #1 and #2 best is hurt??? Seriously, that is your arguement? Based on how much you have dissed the Pro Bowl a person would think that average players were being voted in. I don't care if a player is considered the #5 best in the NFL it is still a major accomplishment!
Would you at least agree that getting voted into the Pro Bowl certainly means you are considered top 5 in the NFL? (perhaps not according to TXB but according to most other people)

Vince Young made a Pro Bowl does that make him a Top 5 QB?

Z-RO

01-27-2011, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Yea, you are correct. It wouldn't be fair to Kitna to compare his numbers after Wade left to Romo's numbers before Wade left. The team played way worst after Wade left than they did before!

The offense looked better after Wade was fired, and even though the defense might not have looked as good only a fool would say that the team played worse after Wade left....how many games did they win before he left compared to after he left? :crazy:

Z-RO

01-27-2011, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
Vince Young made a Pro Bowl does that make him a Top 5 QB?

No, but lets be honest with VY...Fisher has never wanted him as his QB; so for VY to achieve that is quite a testament to the player he could turn out to be. Nobody thought Vick would ever amount to anything and look at what he has done this season. VY was WAY more polished coming out of college then Vick was.

Farmersfan

01-28-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
wow..ok..you keep playing that game

No games TXB! I only look at the FACTS! Kitna's season numbers were not as good as Romo's numbers were! But Romo didn't play under the same conditions that Kitna played under. After Romo got hurt you championed Romo's leadership by claiming the team didn't quit with Romo. (only after he got hurt). Your words-not mine! You have repeatedly stated that this team had quit in those 3 games after Romo got hurt and didn't start playing again until Wade got fired. So now you expect to use those 3 games to measure Kitna's numbers against Romos? I remove those 3 games so that we can compare both QB's under level situations and you don't accept that because now you claim Wade getting fired made a difference! Yet all numbers and stats (except takeaways) shows that this defense played WAY worst after Wade left. The takeaways (and reduced giveaways by the offense) accounted for the extra wins and probably the +8 points per game increase in scoring. With this mountain of evidence at your fingertips you still can't admit that Kitna performed basically as welll as Romo did with the exact same team. (or actually a team that played worst).................................

Txbroadcaster

01-28-2011, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
With this mountain of evidence at your fingertips you still can't admit that Kitna performed basically as welll as Romo did with the exact same team. (or actually a team that played worst).................................

What mountain of evidence? You mean the one I provided that shows while Kitna played solid, he did not play as good as Romo?

Defense under Wade 29 points a game

Defense under Garrett 25 points a game

HUGE upswing in defensive takeways under Garrett(2.1 a game compared to 1.4)

About the same on giveways per game( 1.80 with Wade..1.93 with Garrett)

Farmersfan

01-28-2011, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
What mountain of evidence? You mean the one I provided that shows while Kitna played solid, he did not play as good as Romo?

Defense under Wade 29 points a game

Defense under Garrett 25 points a game

HUGE upswing in defensive takeways under Garrett(2.1 a game compared to 1.4)

About the same on giveways per game( 1.80 with Wade..1.93 with Garrett)

I can't keep up with your flip flopping TXB! Let's just allow other people to look at the numbers for themselves.

With Romo as the QB the team allowed 22 points a game on defense and scored 20 points a game.

With Kitna/Mcgee as the QB the team allowed 31 points a game on defense and scored 27 points a game.

The team was 1-5 with Romo as the starter and 5-5 with Kitna/McGee as QB.

I think that's all that needs to be said. Hope you have a great weekend. TTL

Txbroadcaster

01-28-2011, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I can't keep up with your flip flopping TXB! Let's just allow other people to look at the numbers for themselves.

With Romo as the QB the team allowed 22 points a game on defense and scored 20 points a game.

With Kitna/Mcgee as the QB the team allowed 31 points a game on defense and scored 27 points a game.

The team was 1-5 with Romo as the starter and 5-5 with Kitna/McGee as QB.

I think that's all that needs to be said. Hope you have a great weekend. TTL

what flip flopping? your simply taking numbers that will support your argument by using the Romo injury as the turn..and your doing it because that helps provide your argument of bad D while Kitna was QB because the first 2 and half games with Kitna was still under Wade and the DEFENSE had quit( I never felt the offense as a unit gave up after Romo was hurt until the GB game)

Go for a cleaner divide...The Dallas D under Wade...The Dallas D under Garrett as HC.