Vince Young future [Archive] - Texas DownLow Forum

Ernest T Bass

01-06-2011, 09:33 PM

It's gonna take an NFL coach with a small enough ego to keep his "coaching" to a minimum. The only way to be successful with VY is not to coach him. Just let him be an athlete. Keep everything as simple and basic as possible. When UT finally did that, you see what happened. But asking Vince Young to think is a recipie for disaster.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
It's gonna take an NFL coach with a small enough ego to keep his "coaching" to a minimum. The only way to be successful with VY is not to coach him. Just let him be an athlete. Keep everything as simple and basic as possible. When UT finally did that, you see what happened. But asking Vince Young to think is a recipie for disaster.

I disagree and agree..I do think it takes a coach whose is ego is not a problem( why it did not work with Fisher)

What it will take is a OC who is a teacher, someone who is not pulling him at the drop of a hat

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 09:43 PM

You VY faithful crack me up. :D

Last year somebody on here said it was his receivers fault that he was having a bad season.
Before that it was it was the coaches fault for not letting McNair mentor him.
Now it's Fisher's fault because he just wont give him the football and tell him to go win games.
Excuse after excuse every year.:rolleyes:

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
You VY faithful crack me up. :D

and you hating on him simply because he played at Texas cracks me up..If he had played at Tech you would shower him with love.

Just never understood hating a kid for where they played in college

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 09:52 PM

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
He sucks.
Taylor Potts sucks.
I call it like I see it.

Now do you understand?

yea young really sucked in college( since you said Potts sucked and he has only played college ball)

Now do you understand?

Ernest T Bass

01-06-2011, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I disagree and agree..I do think it takes a coach whose is ego is not a problem( why it did not work with Fisher)

What it will take is a OC who is a teacher, someone who is not pulling him at the drop of a hat

Not gonna find an NFL OC who wants to coach a HS QB, which is what you're saying. VY can't operate in an NFL offense. Hell, he couldn't operate in an NCAA offense. Heard this first hand when they were recruiting Marquise. They had to dumb it WAAAAY down and constantly cottle him for him to be successful at UT. But, it worked.
I won't repeat exactly what was said(not suitable for a family message board), but he's basically a 14 yr old in a 20+ year old, incredibly athletic body. Fisher wanted him to be a Vick or McNabb, but asking VY to think will get you beat.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Not gonna find an NFL OC who wants to coach a HS QB, which is what you're saying. VY can't operate in an NFL offense. Hell, he couldn't operate in an NCAA offense. Heard this first hand when they were recruiting Marquise. They had to dumb it WAAAAY down and constantly cottle him for him to be successful at UT. But, it worked.
I won't repeat exactly what was said(not suitable for a family message board), but he's basically a 14 yr old in a 20+ year old, incredibly athletic body. Fisher wanted him to be a Vick or McNabb, but asking VY to think will get you beat.

I agree about him needing to be coddled, that is an issue with him...I dont agree about what Fisher wanted..Fisher wants a Kerry Collins type..hand off 35 times throw a few play action passes, it is just his style is all.

One thing about Young..as bad as he is supposedly in the NFL the dude has a winning record and it was not like he had a winning record with a team that just full of talent. Yes Kerry Colling had a nice year in 08 with the 12-3 year..but in 5 years he is 13-12..Young in his years with Tenn is 34-17 his QB rating has improved every year

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 10:04 PM

Bass is right....you just cant change stupid.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7972/shortbusvince.gif

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
Bass is right....you just cant change stupid.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7972/shortbusvince.gif

just so sad you have so much hate

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Young in his years with Tenn is 34-17 his QB rating has improved every year

Young posted a 30-18 record as a starter, including one playoff game.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110105/SPORTS01/110105052/2196/SPORTS

Can you post us a link saying his rating has improved every year?
Even if you can, that's no big deal.
99% of the qb's ratings in the NFL improve from year to year.
Doesn't mean they are a good qb in the NFL.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
Young posted a 30-18 record as a starter, including one playoff game.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110105/SPORTS01/110105052/2196/SPORTS

Can you post us a link saying his rating has improved every year?
Even if you can, that's no big deal.
99% of the qb's ratings in the NFL improve from year to year.
Doesn't mean they are a good qb in the NFL.

Sorry miscounted the wins from this year

2006 66 rating
2007 71 rating
2008 64( but only threw 36 passes)
2009 82 rating
2010 98.6 rating

TD -Int ratio
06 12-13
07 9-17
08 1-2
09 10-7
2010 10-3

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Sorry miscounted the wins from this year

2006 66 rating
2007 71 rating
2008 64( but only threw 36 passes)
2009 82 rating
2010 98.6 rating

TD -Int ratio
06 12-13
07 9-17
08 1-2
09 10-7
2010 10-3

2010 98.6 rating = 6/10 season.

I rest my case. :cool:

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
2010 98.6 rating = 6/10 season.

I rest my case. :cool:

huh? how does that rest your case lol.

DDBooger

01-06-2011, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
huh? how does that rest your case lol. Apparently VY plays alone.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:37 PM

Since Young came to the Titans they are 45-35

So with Young they are 30-18..without him they are 15-17

since last year..with Young 12-7 without him..4-12

and we are not talking about Young having a terrible winning record like a 20-20 and then they are just as bad without him

I still believe Fisher and the OC at the time( Norm Chow) did not want Young, but Lienert( been documented MANY TIMES) and when Adams overruled him it create a bad working enviroment..I dont blame Fisher for that I blame Adams

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
huh? how does that rest your case lol.

99% of the qb's ratings in the NFL improve from year to year. Doesn't mean they are a good qb in the NFL.

If the Titans had finished with a winning record would they have kept VY?
Probably. In the NFL, qb's either win or they get benched, cut, or traded. It's a business.

BTW, in the link I posted, check out what the fans had to say about VY being cut in the video to the right.
They support the decision to cut him lose.

As for the question about his future.

While the Titans will attempt to trade him, chances are Young ultimately will be released.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
If the Titans had finished with a winning record would they have kept VY?
Probably. In the NFL, qb's either win or they get benched, cut, or traded. It's a business.

BTW, in the link I posted, check out what the fans had to say about VY being cut in the video to the right.
They support the decision to cut him lose.

As for the question about his future.

of course he will be released..why would a team trade for him when the Titans announced they were getting rid of him( REAL stupid on their part)..that is just simple buisness..why get something for cost when it can be gotten for free.

as far as the fans..it is about 50/50 on titans messages boards about who should stay or go from all I have read

No if the titans had finished with a Winning record they would not keep him..if it was all about wins as you say Young would be the starter no question

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
of course he will be released..why would a team trade for him when the Titans announced they were getting rid of him( REAL stupid on their part)..that is just simple buisness..why get something for cost when it can be gotten for free.

as far as the fans..it is about 50/50 on titans messages boards about who should stay or go from all I have read

No if the titans had finished with a Winning record they would not keep him..if it was all about wins as you say Young would be the starter no question

He is being released because no teams are showing interest in him. If he was worth going after, then Im sure somebody would trade for him.
That's the truth.

I don't keep up with Titans mb's, so I will take your word.

He finished 6-10. Obviously it's about the wins.
Your a bigger homer than I thought if you think they would have traded him even if the Titans had been winning.
I don't think I know of any good qb in the NFL that has been traded or cut.
Well maybe Farve, but that's a different case.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
He is being released because no teams are showing interest in him. If he was worth going after, then Im sure somebody trade for him.
That's the truth.

I don't keep up with Titans mb's, so I will take your word.

He finished 6-10. Obviously it's about the wins.
Your a bigger homer than I thought if you think they would have traded him even if the Titans had been winning.
I don't think I know of any good qb in the NFL that has been traded or cut.
Well maybe Farve, but that's a different case.

You cant claim his QB rating is not legit from this year because he did not play the whole season, then say he was 6-10 for the year lol.

He is being traded because of the relationship with Fisher..that is not being a homer that is a well documented fact

Eagle 1

01-06-2011, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You cant claim his QB rating is not legit from this year because he did play the whole season, then say he was 6-10 for the year lol.

He is being traded because of the relationship with Fisher..that is not being a homer that is a well documented fact

Again, ratings don't equal wins.
It's a business.

He is being traded because all of his off the field drama doesn't exceed his worth in keeping.
30-18 overall and 6-10 this season.
If he had won a Super Bowl in those 30 wins, I bet they would have over looked all of his shenanigans and his 6-10 season. You know that.
It's funny, a few years ago you VY fan's were screaming for the titans to cut VY. Now that they did, you are crying.
I wished I could find the thread.

The Titans haven't decided if they are going to keep Fisher.

While indications are the decision means Coach Jeff Fisher will be back, owner Bud Adams isn’t ready to commit to that just yet.

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
Again, ratings don't equal wins.
It's a business.

He is being traded because all of his off the field drama doesn't exceed his worth in keeping.
30-18 overall and 6-10 this season.
If he had won a Super Bowl in those 30 wins, I bet they would have over looked all of his shenanigans and his 6-10 season. You know that.
It's funny, a few years ago you VY fan's were screaming for the titans to cut VY. Now that they did, you are crying.
I wished I could find the thread.

The Titans haven't decided if they are going to keep Fisher.

u keep saying 6-10..he did not play in 8 games and oh btw he had 5 of the 6 wins

DDBooger

01-06-2011, 11:44 PM

Being a Raider fan, I have a feeling Al is going to do something crazy and go after him. Not that I have anything against VY, but Oakland needs a QB who can use those weapons. Jacoby Ford had a great season and so did McFadden. 6-0 in the AFC West and not making the playoffs kinda sux. lol

Txbroadcaster

01-06-2011, 11:47 PM

I actually think Oak would be perfect..Young will never be a short passing high completion guy..he is a throw it down the field type..put him with the speed at WR and RB Oak has and I think it is a plus

DDBooger

01-06-2011, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I actually think Oak would be perfect..Young will never be a short passing high completion guy..he is a throw it down the field type..put him with the speed at WR and RB Oak has and I think it is a plus Perhaps, but that atmosphere (off the field with Al Davis) would worry me with him at the helm. Looks like Al is promoting the OC to HC.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
He is being released because no teams are showing interest in him. If he was worth going after, then Im sure somebody would trade for him.
That's the truth.

first off Young has not been released..the Titans stated they would trade OR release him( again bad move by them)

No team can "show" interest because trades cannot happen at this time..that is why the Titans playing their hand this early was a bad move, they have NO leverage, so teams will either say we will trade u a 7th, or we will just wait and bid for him once he is released

Pick6

01-07-2011, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster

One thing about Young..as bad as he is supposedly in the NFL the dude has a winning record

Against teams with an above .500% at the end of each season he had a losing record.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Pick6
Against teams with an above .500% at the end of each season he had a losing record.

yep he does..he is 14-15 agianst winning teams if I read it right..all other Titans QBs in Young's tenure is 8-20 agianst winning teams..I have to check that

GreenMonster

01-07-2011, 11:09 AM

I don't know if it was a bad move to release the information they want to trade or release him. On the open market he goes to the highest bidder, but if a team REALLY wanted to make sure they got their man they would trade for him just to keep him off the market. Plus they may actually be able to get him cheaper in a trade than in a FA signing simply due to the fact he's already under contract at a set amount whereas in free agency he goes to the highest bidder. No one ever told his agent he had to tell the truth in negotiations so he could push his own value up by leaking info of what other teams are "offering" to sign him. I think if you want VY offer a 5th rounder or a role player and get him locked down now. (or at least as soon as the NFL starts allowing trades again)

crzyjournalist03

01-07-2011, 11:09 AM

Eli Manning isn't much better than Vince Young IMO. Eli has a ring, so he gets a pass, but Eli's "game smarts" aren't much better than Vince's, and he clearly lacks the athletic ability that Vince has.

I think Vince can be a successful NFL starting QB.

GreenMonster

01-07-2011, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Eli Manning isn't much better than Vince Young IMO. Eli has a ring, so he gets a pass, but Eli's "game smarts" aren't much better than Vince's, and he clearly lacks the athletic ability that Vince has.

I think Vince can be a successful NFL starting QB.

I agree. He is a good leader. He needs to be in a simple offense that takes advantage of his skill set with a lot of roll out run/pass options and deep drops with verticals on the outside and Vince again having the option to pull it down and run. I'm so tired of watching NFL teams all basically running the same offense and the same 2 defenses. It's boring. College football is a much better product due to the wide array of offensive and defensive systems and the innovation that are coming out of both sides of the ball. VY could be a stud in a Gus Mahlzan type of offense. Cam Newton will have the same problems in the NFL Vince has run into because he doesn't fit into their mold of what a QB should be.

Eagle 1

01-07-2011, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
first off Young has not been released..the Titans stated they would trade OR release him( again bad move by them)

No team can "show" interest because trades cannot happen at this time..that is why the Titans playing their hand this early was a bad move, they have NO leverage, so teams will either say we will trade u a 7th, or we will just wait and bid for him once he is released

While the Titans will attempt to trade him, chances are Young ultimately will be released.

He will be released, wait and see.

Any team can show interest in him, they just cant go after him yet.

Under NFL rules, Young's contract cannot be terminated until Feb. 7, when waivers begin for the 2011 season. The earliest he could be traded to another team is March 4, the first day of the league’s business year, if a new collective bargaining agreement between the NFL and NFL Players Association is in place.

Truth is most teams dont want him or his attitude.
But...I would be willing to bet somebody will pick him up as second team qb and give him one more chance to prove his worth, only to be disappointed as the Titans were. You can quote me on that.
Fans like you will continue to defend the golden boy even after he is out of the NFL and back in Texas running with his hommes.

BTW, I didn't know side arm qb's could throw the ball deep. :p

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/255/vinceyoungthrowing.gif

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
He will be released, wait and see.

Any team can show interest in him, they just cant go after him yet.

Truth is most teams dont want him or his attitude.
But...I would be willing to bet somebody will pick him up as second team qb and give him one more chance to prove his worth, only to be disappointed as the Titans were. You can quote me on that.
Fans like you will continue to defend the golden boy even after he is out of the NFL and back in Texas running with his hommes.

BTW, I didn't know side arm qb's could throw the ball deep. :p

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/255/vinceyoungthrowing.gif

OF COURSE he will be released..the Titans have no leverage LOL

Eagle 1

01-07-2011, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
OF COURSE he will be released..the Titans have no leverage LOL

AND the reason they have no leverage is because he SUCKS. LOL>

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
AND the reason they have no leverage is because he SUCKS. LOL>

that is you opinon..his ability to win says he will get plenty of teams wanting to talk to him

Bullaholic

01-07-2011, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
that is you opinon..his ability to win says he will get plenty of teams wanting to talk to him

I agree that VY is a winner on the field, but I do question how many teams will want to strongly pursue a potential starting QB for their team who is willing to call out the HC in an open lockerroom because he is unhappy, and goes off the reservation everytime he bumps into a situation which he can't control.

Eagle 1

01-07-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I agree that VY is a winner on the field, but I do question how many teams will want to strongly pursue a potential starting QB for their team who is willing to call out the HC in an open lockerroom because he is unhappy, and goes off the reservation everytime he bumps into a situation which he can't control.

He is being traded because all of his off the field drama doesn't exceed his worth in keeping.
If he had won a Super Bowl in those 30 wins, I bet they would have over looked all of his shenanigans and his 6-10 season. You know that.

Bingo.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I agree that VY is a winner on the field, but I do question how many teams will want to strongly pursue a potential starting QB for their team who is willing to call out the HC in an open lockerroom because he is unhappy, and goes off the reservation everytime he bumps into a situation which he can't control.

agree 100% that it will hurt him..but if he says the right thing wqhen he meets the teams they will take a chance..If players like Jeff George and Ryan Leaf and Quincy Carter could keep getting chances, then someone like Young will as well

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
Bingo.

I love ho you keep saying a 6-10 season when he was not the starter for every game, yet u say his rating this year is not valid because he did not play the whole season..so which is it?

Bullaholic

01-07-2011, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
agree 100% that it will hurt him..but if he says the right thing wqhen he meets the teams they will take a chance..If players like Jeff George and Ryan Leaf and Quincy Carter could keep getting chances, then someone like Young will as well

Agree that some team will probably give him a look, but the old Oakland Raider "Home for NFL Misfits" philosophy is rapidly fading in the modern NFL. Coaches and owners are agreeing more and more that "troublemakers" are just not worth the trouble in the long run financially or record-wise.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:25 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bullaholic
Coaches and owners are agreeing more and more that "troublemakers" are just not worth the trouble in the long run financially or record-wise. [/QUOTE

Would actually disagree

Mike Vick
Donte Stallworth
Pac Man Jones
Santonio Holmes

reports that the Giants are willing to give Buress a chance

etc, etc

now trouble makers are "projects" who are cheap risk/reward players

Bullaholic

01-07-2011, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bullaholic
Coaches and owners are agreeing more and more that "troublemakers" are just not worth the trouble in the long run financially or record-wise. [/QUOTE

Would actually disagree

Mike Vick
Donte Stallworth
Pac Man Jones
Santonio Holmes

reports that the Giants are willing to give Buress a chance

etc, etc

now trouble makers are "projects" who are cheap risk/reward players

How many of these players do you think will stay "clean" long enough and still have enough game left to make a difference? IMO, Vick is the only one on that list that I think is showing true signs of change and has a real chance of being around for a good NFL career.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
How many of these players do you think will stay "clean" long enough and still have enough game left to make a difference? IMO, Vick is the only one on that list that I think is showing true signs of change and has a real chance of being around for a good NFL career.

Well stallworth's situation was very unique

but the point was..teams now will still take chances on talented "troubled players"(whether off the field or on) because they provide a cheap chance to find talent

Bullaholic

01-07-2011, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Well stallworth's situation was very unique

but the point was..teams now will still take chances on talented "troubled players"(whether off the field or on) because they provide a cheap chance to find talent

And my counter question has been--Has it been, or will it be, worth it in the majority of these situations? IMO, I'm saying more and more the answer is coming up "no", and therefore, as time goes on, more and more teams will be passing on short-run/low-cost troublemakers.

Txbroadcaster

01-07-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
And my counter question has been--Has it been, or will it be, worth it in the majority of these situations? IMO, I'm saying more and more the answer is coming up "no", and therefore, as time goes on, more and more teams will be passing on short-run/low-cost troublemakers.

We would have to compile a list to see I guess

Bullaholic

01-07-2011, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
We would have to compile a list to see I guess

Dang intelligent post for a fast East Texas boy....:D

I agree...

Eagle 1

01-07-2011, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I love ho you keep saying a 6-10 season when he was not the starter for every game, yet u say his rating this year is not valid because he did not play the whole season..so which is it?

Ok, so the less games he plays the greater his rating is.
I'll go with that. I would think the same can be said about ANY qb in the NFL. Simple mathematics.
It still doesn't out weigh his off field antics. Wouldn't you agree?
If not, then I have a used car I would like to sell you.
It's a classic and has won a few shows in the past. However it now smokes, needs a paint job, and may leave you on the side of the road from time to time.
But HEY....it's a classic car that won some shows in the past. ;)

Old LB

01-07-2011, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Eagle 1
Ok, so the less games he plays the greater his rating is.
I'll go with that. I would think the same can be said about ANY qb in the NFL. Simple mathematics.
It still doesn't out weigh his off field antics. Wouldn't you agree?
If not, then I have a used car I would like to sell you.
It's a classic and has won a few shows in the past. However it now smokes, needs a paint job, and may leave you on the side of the road from time to time.
But HEY....it's a classic car that won some shows in the past. ;)

How Much? :thinking:

WildTexan972

01-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
and you hating on him simply because he played at Texas cracks me up..If he had played at Tech you would shower him with love.

Just never understood hating a kid for where they played in college

wrong....VY is the proof that some are great at the college level and some are too dumb to adjust to the speed at the next level....he was a star at all level until they ALL have equal talent to his.....being mostly braindead above the shoulders is not a good fix for that situation....

he is about another pound of dope to smoke away from puttin on a wedding dress like that other nut from cowland....

Eagle 1

01-07-2011, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Old LB
How Much? :thinking:

I was just using this as an example, but I am going to sell my 87 SS
Monte Carlo Aerocoupe soon.
It doesnt smoke and it wont leave you on the side of the road.
However, it does need some fresh paint.;)

LH Panther Mom

01-08-2011, 10:49 AM

How many owners/HC's will be willing to take a chance on him as a starting QB when he doesn't show up for practices or team meetings? I might not be an NFL agent or contract expert, but I'm smart enough to know that hurt or not, players are expected, and probably bound by contract, to SHOW UP. Not showing up = no job. Heck, even my lowly job expects me to show up or get fired. :doh:

DaHop72

01-08-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
How many owners/HC's will be willing to take a chance on him as a starting QB when he doesn't show up for practices or team meetings? I might not be an NFL agent or contract expert, but I'm smart enough to know that hurt or not, players are expected, and probably bound by contract, to SHOW UP. Not showing up = no job. Heck, even my lowly job expects me to show up or get fired. :doh: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: And you can't mouth off at your boss in front of other employees and expect to stay around.

LH Panther Mom

01-08-2011, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by DaHop72
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: And you can't mouth off at your boss in front of other employees and expect to stay around.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I was just thinking I needed to have included that! GMTA! :D

DaHop72

01-08-2011, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I was just thinking I needed to have included that! GMTA! :D :thumbsup: :D

Saggy Aggie

01-08-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bullaholic
Coaches and owners are agreeing more and more that "troublemakers" are just not worth the trouble in the long run financially or record-wise. [/QUOTE

Would actually disagree

Mike Vick
Donte Stallworth
Pac Man Jones
Santonio Holmes

reports that the Giants are willing to give Buress a chance

etc, etc

now trouble makers are "projects" who are cheap risk/reward players I'd have Holmes and Vick on my team. You can keep the other two, and I'd have to think about Plaxico... :thinking: