D Ware vs FF

[Pick6]

“Put it like this, it’s all a team sport,” Ware said. “You can see that. Five guys that make the Pro Bowl, that doesn’t make the team.”


Let's see how FF spins this.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Pick6
“Put it like this, it’s all a team sport,” Ware said. “You can see that. Five guys that make the Pro Bowl, that doesn’t make the team.”


Let's see how FF spins this.

especially when two of the five( and I still think while Witten has the numbers he was BAD when the season still was in play) dont belong...but u bring up a good point

lets say all 5 did belong...well that still leaves 19( counting special teams) other positions that must be at least ok to win

So you can have 5 guys having career years and still not be a good team

Also the whole idea that pro bowl is about talent..actually it is supposed to be about who played well THAT YEAR alone

[Ernest T Bass]

Hmmm, maybe it's just me, but if I had 5 all-state players on my team, Im gonna win some damned games! Ive never had more than one, and that was enough to win more than half.
I honestly believe that the players wanted to get Wade fired. Their level of play has increased exponentially since JJ fired him. I think they laid down on him. It's the only thing that makes sense. The man knows football(especially defense, which is the only thing that's different between NFL teams).
I dont care what level you're playing at, 5 of the best 22 players in the league should equal at least a .600 season.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Hmmm, maybe it's just me, but if I had 5 all-state players on my team, Im gonna win some damned games! Ive never had more than one, and that was enough to win more than half.
I honestly believe that the players wanted to get Wade fired. Their level of play has increased exponentially since JJ fired him. I think they laid down on him. It's the only thing that makes sense. The man knows football(especially defense, which is the only thing that's different between NFL teams).
I dont care what level you're playing at, 5 of the best 22 players in the league should equal at least a .600 season.

apples and oranges IMO..5 all state players on the high school level is alot different than 5 Pro bowl players in the NFL

I agree they laid down for Phillips in the two games after Romo was hurt..before that they played hard, but stupid..it is not like they were getting blown out by 21 all year, that was just two games.

With Garrett we have seen them go back to playing hard, but alos alot of the problems in the 1-7 start have come back during the 4-3 run under Garrett

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
apples and oranges IMO..5 all state players on the high school level is alot different than 5 Pro bowl players in the NFL

I agree they laid down for Phillips in the two games after Romo was hurt..before that they played hard, but stupid..it is not like they were getting blown out by 21 all year, that was just two games.

With Garrett we have seen them go back to playing hard, but alos alot of the problems in the 1-7 start have come back during the 4-3 run under Garrett Clock Riders have a tendency to have that effect on any team or company.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
apples and oranges IMO..5 all state players on the high school level is alot different than 5 Pro bowl players in the NFL

I agree they laid down for Phillips in the two games after Romo was hurt..before that they played hard, but stupid..it is not like they were getting blown out by 21 all year, that was just two games.

With Garrett we have seen them go back to playing hard, but alos alot of the problems in the 1-7 start have come back during the 4-3 run under Garrett

True, but 5 of the best 22 is still 5 of the best 22. Think about it. 22 players from, what is it, 32 teams? And you have 5 of them? Almost 1/4 of the best players in the league are on YOUR team, you should be able to win more half.
I dont know enough about the inner workings of the NFL to have much of an opinion of NFL coaching. Every team is the same offensively, very few teams really have a personality of their own anymore(maybe the Jets?), and I have no idea how to coach grown men who are making exponentialy more money than you are and are much more valuable to the program than you are(and everyone knows it). But, I still have to believe that 1/4 of the best in the league on one team at any level should equal success.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
True, but 5 of the best 22 is still 5 of the best 22. Think about it. 22 players from, what is it, 32 teams? And you have 5 of them? Almost 1/4 of the best players in the league are on YOUR team, you should be able to win more half.
I dont know enough about the inner workings of the NFL to have much of an opinion of NFL coaching. Every team is the same offensively, very few teams really have a personality of their own anymore(maybe the Jets?), and I have no idea how to coach grown men who are making exponentialy more money than you are and are much more valuable to the program than you are(and everyone knows it). But, I still have to believe that 1/4 of the best in the league on one team at any level should equal success.

again we are going on the basis that the 5 were actually the best...and one of the 5 was a punter..so 4 of 22 sounds great..if the other 18 are all capable..but if you have 4 of the best..say 6 who are good 4 who are not great but not terrible then 4 who are problems, then put those 8 in positions like CB/SS/FS/OL in todays NFL where passing D HUGE and OL protection is always big then you can see where even have 4 great players gets lost in the bad play of the other 18.

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
True, but 5 of the best 22 is still 5 of the best 22. Think about it. 22 players from, what is it, 32 teams? And you have 5 of them? Almost 1/4 of the best players in the league are on YOUR team, you should be able to win more half.
I dont know enough about the inner workings of the NFL to have much of an opinion of NFL coaching. Every team is the same offensively, very few teams really have a personality of their own anymore(maybe the Jets?), and I have no idea how to coach grown men who are making exponentialy more money than you are and are much more valuable to the program than you are(and everyone knows it). But, I still have to believe that 1/4 of the best in the league on one team at any level should equal success. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
again we are going on the basis that the 5 were actually the best...and one of the 5 was a punter..so 4 of 22 sounds great..if the other 18 are all capable..but if you have 4 of the best..say 6 who are good 4 who are not great but not terrible then 4 who are problems, then put those 8 in positions like CB/SS/FS/OL in todays NFL where passing D HUGE and OL protection is always big then you can see where even have 4 great players gets lost in the bad play of the other 18.




It is amazing how you And, IF or But things to death that you don't agree with! The truth is that maybe Gurode and Ratliff don't deserve to go according to YOU but the last time I checked they didn't ask your opinion. The coaches and players around the league voted these players in just like they voted in all the OTHER Pro Bowlers from all the OTHER TEAMS! This team was 1 play away from beating the Eagles, Saints, Bears, Cardinals, Redskins, Vikings and Giants. Some of these teams are considered the top teams in the NFL right now. You don't do that with scrub players. This Cowboys team is AT LEAST as talented as the Eagles, Saints and Bears and those teams are fighting for a Superbowl bid. The Cowboys will need a miricle to win their 6th game. That is a mental/attitude/preparation problem and not a talent problem. The worst players on this team this season were Pro Bowl caliber players just last season!
Although you are correct in one aspect Tx! The Pro Bowl doesn't measure talent, it measures performance. But I don't think you understand that PERFORMANCE doesn't happen without talent. You can have all the talent in the world and not perform on the field but you cannot perform at that level without the talent to do so! You base all your apparisal of these players on how they perform and I base mine on how they SHOULD/COULD perform based on their talent level!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
It is amazing how you And, IF or But things to death that you don't agree with! The truth is that maybe Gurode and Ratliff don't deserve to go according to YOU but the last time I checked they didn't ask your opinion. The coaches and players around the league voted these players in just like they voted in all the OTHER Pro Bowlers from all the OTHER TEAMS! This team was 1 play away from beating the Eagles, Saints, Bears, Cardinals, Redskins, Vikings and Giants. Some of these teams are considered the top teams in the NFL right now. You don't do that with scrub players. This Cowboys team is AT LEAST as talented as the Eagles, Saints and Bears and those teams are fighting for a Superbowl bid. The Cowboys will need a miricle to win their 6th game. That is a mental/attitude/preparation problem and not a talent problem. The worst players on this team this season were Pro Bowl caliber players just last season!
Although you are correct in one aspect Tx! The Pro Bowl doesn't measure talent, it measures performance. But I don't think you understand that PERFORMANCE doesn't happen without talent. You can have all the talent in the world and not perform on the field but you cannot perform at that level without the talent to do so! You base all your apparisal of these players on how they perform and I base mine on how they SHOULD/COULD perform based on their talent level!


Pro Bowl is supposed to be about who had good years in 2010..So you think Gurode, Ratliff and even to an extent Witten had good years?

and ur right I do base my opinions on how they perform, because that is what matters, not how they MIGHT perform

I will take a 11-5 team with one pro bowl player over a 5-11 team with 5 any day

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Pick6
“Put it like this, it’s all a team sport,” Ware said. “You can see that. Five guys that make the Pro Bowl, that doesn’t make the team.”


Let's see how FF spins this.




So a 28 year old NFL player that got voted into the Pro Bowl makes a Politically Correct statement to a reporter and it explains all your unanswered questions?
But in truth the only thing the 5 Pro Bowlers for the Cowboys say is that at least according to the coaches, players and average fan in the world the Cowboy's have more quality players at the top of the lineup than all but 2 other NFC teams! All the other nonsense posted by TXbroadcaster or yourself is irrelavent! The bottom of the lineup for the Cowboys might be the worst in the NFL but the top of the lineup is proven to be one of the best! Case Closed! Go back into your hole...........:p

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
! All the other nonsense posted by TXbroadcaster or yourself is irrelavent!


Why cant you just debate..I have never called any of your thoughts nonsense..I might disagree, but I have always valued your view..if you dont value mine, put me on ignore and stop responding

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Pro Bowl is supposed to be about who had good years in 2010..So you think Gurode, Ratliff and even to an extent Witten had good years?

and ur right I do base my opinions on how they perform, because that is what matters, not how they MIGHT perform

I will take a 11-5 team with one pro bowl player over a 5-11 team with 5 any day



Gurode, Ratliff and Witten had terrible years..............compared to what they have had in the past!!! But compared to the other players in the league at their positions they were apparently thought very highly of by the other players and coaches!


Basing your opinions on how they perform is fine as long as you don't call it TALENT!!!!!! You watch very talented players underacheive and make excuses for that underacheivement by claiming they aren't talented! There is a difference in TALENT and PERFORMANCE! One can be fixed with attitude and effort and the other can other be fixed by bringing in new players.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Gurode, Ratliff and Witten had terrible years..............compared to what they have had in the past!!! But compared to the other players in the league at their positions they were apparently thought very highly of by the other players and coaches!




Or the other players and coaches took 30 seconds to fill out ballots and voted names they recognize or traded votes with friends

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Why cant you just debate..I have never called any of your thoughts nonsense..I might disagree, but I have always valued your view..if you dont value mine, put me on ignore and stop responding





Sorry Tx! You are right. You don't deserve it. But i really didn't mean any disrespect. I was simply using the term "nonsense" to emphasize comments that really have no bearing on the debate. Sorry! I should not have included you in that comment.

[GrTigers6]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Gurode, Ratliff and Witten had terrible years..............compared to what they have had in the past!!! But compared to the other players in the league at their positions they were apparently thought very highly of by the other players and coaches!


Basing your opinions on how they perform is fine as long as you don't call it TALENT!!!!!! You watch very talented players underacheive and make excuses for that underacheivement by claiming they aren't talented! There is a difference in TALENT and PERFORMANCE! One can be fixed with attitude and effort and the other can other be fixed by bringing in new players. According to sports writers in dallas Witten is having his best year. Just saying
Not sure what catagorie they were talking about though

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Or the other players and coaches took 30 seconds to fill out ballots and voted names they recognize or traded votes with friends



So EVERY OTHER PLAYER in the NFL traded with Gurode to get into the Pro Bowl?????? Why didn't they trade with the other 32 centers in the league??? It's a flawed analogy TX!
Of course the things you mentioned could happen occasionally but you are invalidating the entire program because of urban legends more or less! And your views of the Pro Bowl seem to be skewed ONLY where the Cowboys are concerned. Or should i say only where the Cowboy picks that you disagree with are concerned.

Which of these others were "Traded" between players? And who should have been picked?

Quarterback:
Michael Vick, Eagles*
Matt Ryan, Falcons
Drew Brees, Saints

Fullback:
Ovie Mughelli, Falcons*

Running Back:
Michael Turner, Falcons*
Adrian Peterson, Vikings
Steven Jackson, Rams

Wide Receiver:
Roddy White, Falcons*
Calvin Johnson, Lions*
DeSean Jackson, Eagles
Greg Jennings, Packers

Tight End:
Jason Witten, Cowboys*
Tony Gonzalez, Falcons

Tackle:
Jason Peters, Eagles*
Jordan Gross, Panthers*
Chad Clifton, Packers

Guard:
Jahri Evans, Saints*
Chris Snee, Giants*
Carl Nicks, Saints

Center:
Andre Gurode, Cowboys*
Shaun O'Hara, Giants

Defensive End:
Julius Peppers, Bears*
John Abraham, Falcons*
Justin Tuck, Giants

Defensive Tackle:
Ndamukong Suh, Lions*
Jay Ratliff, Cowboys*
Justin Smith, 49ers

Outside Linebacker:
Clay Matthews, Packers*
DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys*
Lance Briggs, Bears

Inside Linebacker:
Patrick Willis, 49ers*
Brian Urlacher, Bears

Cornerback:
Asante Samuel, Eagles*
Charles Woodson, Packers*
DeAngelo Hall, Redskins

Free Safety:
Nick Collins, Packers*
Antrel Rolle, Giants

Strong Safety:
Adrian Wilson, Cardinals*

K:
David Akers, Eagles*

P:
Mat McBriar, Cowboys*

KR:
Devin Hester, Bears*

ST:
Eric Weems, Falcons*

[Pick6]

Josh Brown made more FG's and a higher % than David Akers. I'd almost bet that Akers got the nod because he is more known than Brown.

That's just 1 example of probably many more.

[Ernest T Bass]

FF, dude, I hope you're not wound as tight as you seem on here. If so, you may have a coronary any day now. You definitely like that "!" button!
Oh, on another note, Ive heard some rumblings from your neck of the woods about the current football program leadership. Something going down?

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
FF, dude, I hope you're not wound as tight as you seem on here. If so, you may have a coronary any day now. You definitely like that "!" button!
Oh, on another note, Ive heard some rumblings from your neck of the woods about the current football program leadership. Something going down? Indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
So EVERY OTHER PLAYER in the NFL traded with Gurode to get into the Pro Bowl?????? Why didn't they trade with the other 32 centers in the league??? It's a flawed analogy TX!
Of course the things you mentioned could happen occasionally but you are invalidating the entire program because of urban legends more or less! And your views of the Pro Bowl seem to be skewed ONLY where the Cowboys are concerned. Or should i say only where the Cowboy picks that you disagree with are concerned.

Which of these others were "Traded" between players? And who should have been picked?

Quarterback:
Michael Vick, Eagles*
Matt Ryan, Falcons
Drew Brees, Saints

Fullback:
Ovie Mughelli, Falcons*

Running Back:
Michael Turner, Falcons*
Adrian Peterson, Vikings
Steven Jackson, Rams

Wide Receiver:
Roddy White, Falcons*
Calvin Johnson, Lions*
DeSean Jackson, Eagles
Greg Jennings, Packers

Tight End:
Jason Witten, Cowboys*
Tony Gonzalez, Falcons

Tackle:
Jason Peters, Eagles*
Jordan Gross, Panthers*
Chad Clifton, Packers

Guard:
Jahri Evans, Saints*
Chris Snee, Giants*
Carl Nicks, Saints

Center:
Andre Gurode, Cowboys*
Shaun O'Hara, Giants

Defensive End:
Julius Peppers, Bears*
John Abraham, Falcons*
Justin Tuck, Giants

Defensive Tackle:
Ndamukong Suh, Lions*
Jay Ratliff, Cowboys*
Justin Smith, 49ers

Outside Linebacker:
Clay Matthews, Packers*
DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys*
Lance Briggs, Bears

Inside Linebacker:
Patrick Willis, 49ers*
Brian Urlacher, Bears

Cornerback:
Asante Samuel, Eagles*
Charles Woodson, Packers*
DeAngelo Hall, Redskins

Free Safety:
Nick Collins, Packers*
Antrel Rolle, Giants

Strong Safety:
Adrian Wilson, Cardinals*

K:
David Akers, Eagles*

P:
Mat McBriar, Cowboys*

KR:
Devin Hester, Bears*

ST:
Eric Weems, Falcons*


Look it is just my opinion, you dont have to agree, but MANY feel the Pro Bowl and who gets in is a joke( and no I dont mean every player)

But if u want to play the game I will

QB...Aaron Rodgers should be in over Brees or Ryan, he leads the NFC in rating and has dealt with a ton of injuries

and he has been better than brees and more important to his team than Ryan

RB...pretty solid, a case could be made for Ahmad Bradshaw but his fumbles hut

FB..John Kuhn should have made it easily, he is asked to more than blocl

WR..Why does Jackson make it over Hakeem Nicks? Nicks has more catches and 5 more TDs..but Jackson is the "known" player..in fact Maclin IMO means more to the Eagles than Jaclson

TE..Witten has numbers, but boy he was crap during the losing streak with his penalties and blown blocking...Gonzalez had all of 650 yds and 5 TDS..Vernon Davis should have be on the team

OT..Sorry but Jordan Gross made it on name..Donald Penn of TB has been far better and on a team that actually scores..and Trent Williams for the Skins stepped in and became a franchise LT

G..Josh Sitton of GB should be on the team, dude was a force, Suh said he was best G he played all year..yet no one knows who he is

C..ANYONE but Gurode, his bad snaps, bad blocking and blown assignments have been shown many many times

DE..PEppers?!?!?! REALLY?? he had all of 8 sacks and was a non force most of the year and only has 39 tackles..Trent Cole had more sacks and tackles, but is not the known name of the two

DT..Ratliff should not be on here simple as that he had 4 sacks while BJ Raji had 7 on a play off worthy team and Fred Robbins had 6..bith more than Ratliff with more tackles as well..again Ratliff has the name

OLB..both deserving

ILB..Both are deserving but I think James Laurinaitis had a better season


CB..Tramon Williams had more INTS than Woodson..but Woodson is the "known guy"

Safety..both good picks, no one in NFC really STOOD out imo

so I shoowed every position and who had better seasons..but guess what..NAMES make it over better seasons time after time...players have a saying..You make the Pro Bowl the year after you first deserve..meaning it takes a year for the players to know your name and how good you are