Today is the Anniversary of Pearl Harbor Attack.

[Phil C]

It happened on December 7, 1941 and put us in WW2. May those that lost their lives that day RIP.

Now this attack was unexpected, unprovoked and uncalled for especially while Japan was negociating peace just before it happened.

Therefore on this one -

DON'T BE POLITICALLY CORRECT!!

:mad:

[MUSTANG69]

The Japs got what they deserved in return and they are still whining about it.:mad:

[Trashman]

President Franklin D. Roosevelt: Yesterday, December 7, 1941—a date which will live in infamy—the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

The United States was at peace with that nation, and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific. Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American island of Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our secretary of state a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.

It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian Islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. I regret to tell you that very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday the Japanese government also launched as attack against Malaya.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Guam.

Last night Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Wake Island.

And this morning the Japanese attacked Midway Island.

Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday and today speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As commander in chief of the Army and Navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense. But always will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us. . .

Source: Courtesy of the Franklin D. Roosevelt Library, Hyde Park, New York.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
The Japs got what they deserved in return and they are still whining about it.:mad: They are?

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by DDBooger
They are?

I knew my statement would draw you out.:D

BBDE must not be around or he would blast me for it.

Phil said we shouldn't be politically correct!

I guess I'm just bored with reading about Brownwood all the time.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
I knew my statement would draw you out.:D

BBDE must not be around or he would blast me for it.

Phil said we shouldn't be politically correct!

I guess I'm just bored with reading about Brownwood all the time. I generally respond to absurdities. lol :p ;)

I understand what you mean...I stopped reading the Carthage/BW thread. It's like a long version of "yeah huh, nu uh!"

back on topic :1offtopc:

there used to be truthers back then as well. People speculated FDR allowed it to occur in order to motivate the populace into action. Those carriers not being in port really backfired on the Japanese.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
The Japs got what they deserved in return and they are still whining about it.:mad:

Lets see:

Pearl Harbor: 2500 people killed
Hiroshima and Nagasaki: 240,000 people killed (95% of them civilians)

Yea they really deserved that :doh:

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I generally respond to absurdities. lol :p ;)

I understand what you mean...I stopped reading the Carthage/BW thread. It's like a long version of "yeah huh, nu uh!"

back on topic :1offtopc:

there used to be truthers back then as well. People speculated FDR allowed it to occur in order to motivate the populace into action. Those carriers not being in port really backfired on the Japanese.

I do believe the U.S. actions were justified. The part about whining was just to piss people off. However, a few years back I did read an article about some Japanese claiming they should receive reparations for long term problems due to the atomic bombs. I thought that was a little ridiculous if true.

I think there are conspiracies about every war. I don't know if they could ever be proved. FDR must have been a very strong-willed man. His speech to America after Pearl Harbor was very inspiring to say the least.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Keith7
Lets see:

Pearl Harbor: 2500 people killed
Hiroshima and Nagasaki: 240,000 people killed (95% of them civilians)

Yea they really deserved that :doh:

Yes! They did deserve it. If you were to kill a family member of mine without provocation I feel I would be justified in wiping out your whole family.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
Yes! They did deserve it. If you were to kill a family member of mine without provocation I feel I would be justified in wiping out your whole family. And in so doing becoming worse than the perp who killed 1 member of your family. I understand that logic. :crazy:

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I People speculated FDR allowed it to occur in order to motivate the populace into action. Those carriers not being in port really backfired on the Japanese.


You beat me to it! There are still many who speculate about this(myself inlcuded).
In my opinion, the bombing was justified. An invasion of Tokyo would have taken many American lives. In war, the lives of my people are much more valuable than the lives of the enemy.

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
You beat me to it! There are still many who speculate about this(myself inlcuded).
In my opinion, the bombing was justified. An invasion of Tokyo would have taken many American lives. In war, the lives of my people are much more valuable than the lives of the enemy. +1

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
You beat me to it! There are still many who speculate about this(myself inlcuded).
In my opinion, the bombing was justified. An invasion of Tokyo would have taken many American lives. In war, the lives of my people are much more valuable than the lives of the enemy. Yes, an unfortunate side of war. Whole nations mobilized makes striking at areas dense with people a suitable target. It is justified in the sense that they are part of the war machine, however, by our own rules of war, those who ordered the bombings would have been seen as war criminals. Perhaps it is a lesson learned from that experience. The shelling of Grozny by the Russians got severe backlash in the Chechan conflict. I don't know that we'll ever see indiscriminate bombing by a nation again (on that scale). I hope not. In the case of nuclear war, won't matter.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yes, an unfortunate side of war. Whole nations mobilized makes striking at areas dense with people a suitable target. It is justified in the sense that they are part of the war machine, however, by our own rules of war, those who ordered the bombings would have been seen as war criminals. Perhaps it is a lesson learned from that experience. The shelling of Grozny by the Russians got severe backlash in the Chechan conflict. I don't know that we'll ever see indiscriminate bombing by a nation again (on that scale). I hope not. In the case of nuclear war, won't matter.

Indeed. In 1945, we didn't have the capability for discriminate bombing. In 2010, we do. Also, Im not comfortable with the revenge argument, but I am ok with the "killing yours to save ours" argument.
I also still speculate about how much knowledge FDR had about the attack. Sure was strange to have all of those carriers out on manuvers, at the same time, on that exact day and time.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by DDBooger
And in so doing becoming worse than the perp who killed 1 member of your family. I understand that logic. :crazy:

So the US should have just killed 2500 Japanese and stopped?
Then they could kill another 2500 of us and then we could kill another 2500 of them. Just keep going until everyone is dead.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
So the US should have just killed 2500 Japanese and stopped?
Then they could kill another 2500 of us and then we could kill another 2500 of them. Just keep going until everyone is dead. You're applying a context to another that doesn't mesh.

In war of body counts (as we've found out) the goal is lost in the ferocity. Clear aims leading to surrender were what was the motive for America to drop the bombs. If you read up a little on the decision, you'll find a few officers were strongly against it as it displayed no honor. I believe Marshall even absolved himself from the decision.

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by DDBooger
You're applying a context to another that doesn't mesh.

In war of body counts (as we've found out) the goal is lost in the ferocity. Clear aims leading to surrender were what was the motive for America to drop the bombs. If you read up a little on the decision, you'll find a few officers were strongly against it as it displayed no honor. I believe Marshall even absolved himself from the decision.

My belief is that in war a way should be found to defeat the enemy soundly so that the threat is ended. The sooner a war is over the less lives lost. Body counts are ridiculous. If the enemy suffers huge losses compared to yours they will surrender sooner.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
If the enemy suffers huge losses compared to yours they will surrender sooner. Vietnam and Afghanistan (Russian invasion) beg to differ.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
If the enemy suffers huge losses compared to yours they will surrender sooner.

B/c that worked in Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

[MUSTANG69]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
B/c that worked in Vietnam? Iraq? Afghanistan?

I don't think the Viertnam and Afghanistan wars have been conducted correctly. To make it simple so everyone can understand. I believe in a "scorched earth" attitude when it comes to war. I have nothing else to say. That's the way I see it.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by MUSTANG69
I don't think the Viertnam and Afghanistan wars have been conducted correctly. To make it simple so everyone can understand. I believe in a "scorched earth" attitude when it comes to war. I have nothing else to say. That's the way I see it.

Ahh, ok, I gotcha. And then let them clean it up. Kinda like Germany after WWI?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Ahh, ok, I gotcha. And then let them clean it up. Kinda like Germany after WWI? Whats the worst that can happen? :D

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Whats the worst that can happen? :D

Worked out for us!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
Worked out for us! I was being facetious. I don't know if you caught it.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I was being facetious. I don't know if you caught it.

I did. :cool:

[LIONS#1]

daughters birthday as well