Former 4A's Left In Playoffs?

[Bullaholic]

Of the 24 remaining playoff teams, how many are former 4A's?

[trojan37]

Alvarado dropped from 4A this past realignment I believe.

[MesquiteFan]

Henderson and Brownwood.

[91 lion]

Snyder
Chapel Hill
Lubbock Cooper (I believe)
Borger
Monohans
Madison
Athens

...along with the ones already mentioned....and there are a few I'm not sure about that could be on here too.

[91 lion]

Basically, most all of region 1 has been 4a in the past. All teams in our district (except Wylie) have been 4a in the past.

[HEMOTOXIC]

Navasota, West Columbia, Tyler Chapel Hill

[bobcat1]

Makes sense they are left with all those kids to choose from. Good post!

[LoboesWT]

Originally posted by 91 lion
Snyder
Chapel Hill
Lubbock Cooper (I believe)
Borger
Monohans
Madison
Athens

...along with the ones already mentioned....and there are a few I'm not sure about that could be on here too.

I think Lubbock Cooper has never been 4A, but rumor has it that over the next couple of years they are growing at a rate that will push them to 4A. When we played a game their at their new facilities it looked as if they were preparing for some growth in their campus.

[buckeyebob]

A number of the East Texas bunch was 4A in the 80's (??). This past realignment brought us Henderson & Lindale. There were a bunch of new drops in the alignment of '07...Carthage was one of those I think.

[ApachePride]

Sweeny was 4A at one time in the mid 90s

[91 lion]

Originally posted by buckeyebob
A number of the East Texas bunch was 4A in the 80's (??). This past realignment brought us Henderson & Lindale. There were a bunch of new drops in the alignment of '07...Carthage was one of those I think.
Carthage was 4a at one point in the 80s and 90s

[poisoned10]

Gilmer was 4A when I was in 7th and 8th grade ('96-'97 & '97-'98, I believe.)

[poisoned10]

Originally posted by 91 lion
Carthage was 4a at one point in the 80s and 90s

I'm pretty sure Carthage was in 4A in the early 2000's.

[WOS87]

14 out of 24 with both Borger and Dallas Madison being the equivalent of 5A in the past prior to the classification shift in 1980.

Borger made it to the 4A Finals (equivalent of 5A) in the early '60's

Carthage made it to the 4A Finals and lost to A&M Consolidated in the early '90's

Tyler Chapel Hill won a 4A state championship in 1989

Brownwood won the equivalent of 7 4A state titles from 1960-1981

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by poisoned10
I'm pretty sure Carthage was in 4A in the early 2000's.
Forney played Carthage in the 3A playoffs in '02 '03.

[91 lion]

You know, its actually a really interesting topic that a few of my buddies and I discuss from time to time. We talk about how...eventhough we (Brownwood) are in 3a now, our boys are playing the same teams that we played 20 years ago.

The interesting thing about is that you have 4 types of high schools dynamics in play that determines all of this......and with the UIL mandating only 245 schools in it's largest classification (5a), we will see a lot more teams drop. The 4 types are:

1. Traditional small town-thats your towns/schools like Henderson, Brownwood, Snyder, Jasper, etc. These are one horse towns that had typically been in the heart of 4a, but are now 3a, and unless the UIL makes some type of change, they will remain in 3a because their local business/commerce dictates that these communities aren't getting any bigger at any measurable rate. This is the heart of 3a.

2. Suburb schools-These are the ones that hang around for a few years on their way to larger classifications.....Southlake Carroll and Lucas Lovejoy are good examples of this. Carroll is already in 5a and Lovejoy seems to be headed that way quickly. These types of communities are booming and growth is emminent.

3. New High Schools being added in medium size towns. Many school boards are voting to build second High Schools in their towns to keep enrollment down. Boerne is a good example of this...A few years back, they were on the verge of going 5a...and the school board approved a new highschool (Boerne Champion), thus decreasing Boerne High School numbers to 3a. They wanted the smaller school structure. I know the town of Frisco has a similar belief, and have openly said that they want to keep enrollment of their High Schools in a range that would keep them all 4a....they are not doing this for athletics, it is more for classroom numbers.

4. New High Schools being added in large cities or suburbs. This is the one that determines everything. Since the UIL charter mandates that only 245 schools will be in the largest classification, all of us get affected when schools like San Antonio Reagan, Fort Bend Hightower and Keller Central open up. Most of these bad boys open their doors with 2000 kids....and if they don't open the doors with 2000, they will be there shortly. The opening of these schools raise the ceiling on classification limits, thus making schools drop.

When I was in High School, the 3a/4a cut-off was 750 students....now its close to 1000. Soon, schools like Stephenville and LaMarque will be joining our happy family because of this......unless the UIL decides to add a classification or 2 in the next few years. :thinking:

[M-town lobo fan]

Originally posted by bobcat1
Makes sense they are left with all those kids to choose from. Good post!
Dont even go there,Celina located in the metroplex area playing in 2A and 3A..

[buckeyebob]

Originally posted by poisoned10
I'm pretty sure Carthage was in 4A in the early 2000's.
Carthage was 4A from the 1980 until 2002 season.

[buckeyebob]

Originally posted by poisoned10
Gilmer was 4A when I was in 7th and 8th grade ('96-'97 & '97-'98, I believe.)

The Buckeyes were 4A only '96 & '97 season. Rough district for a small school....Pine Tree, Carthage, Kilgore, Henderson & Hallsville.

[bobcat1]

Originally posted by M-town lobo fan
Dont even go there,Celina located in the metroplex area playing in 2A and 3A.. You are funny. Ever been to Celina? Enrollment mid 500's.

[poisoned10]

Originally posted by buckeyebob
The Buckeyes were 4A only '96 & '97 season. Rough district for a small school....Pine Tree, Carthage, Kilgore, Henderson & Hallsville.

That's what I said. The '96 and '97 season would fall into the '96-'97 and '97-'98 school years.

[Bullaholic]

14/24 former 4A's left in playoffs. If former 4A's end up winning DI and DII, how strong of a case will this make for DI & DII exclusive schedules, or a 6A class?

[Tin Cup]

Here's a thought, not implying anything just curious. Rocket and others like myself think it's easier to win state in 3A than 4A. Not that it is EASY, just EASIER. How many of these 14 have won state in 4A? Of these same 14, how many have won in 3A?

[LoboesWT]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
12/24 former 4A's left in playoffs. If former 4A's end up winning DI and DII, how stong of a case will this make for DI & DII exclusive schedules, or a 6A class?

Needs to happen sooner than later. Without split schedules it kind of muddles a state championship. You can play each other during regular season, but end up big school or small school in playoffs. In one district the big school team may be the size of a small school in another district. The current classification system needs improving to give a clearer picture and true state champion per classification.

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by 91 lion
You know, its actually a really interesting topic that a few of my buddies and I discuss from time to time. We talk about how...eventhough we (Brownwood) are in 3a now, our boys are playing the same teams that we played 20 years ago.

The interesting thing about is that you have 4 types of high schools dynamics in play that determines all of this......and with the UIL mandating only 245 schools in it's largest classification (5a), we will see a lot more teams drop. The 4 types are:

1. Traditional small town-thats your towns/schools like Henderson, Brownwood, Snyder, Jasper, etc. These are one horse towns that had typically been in the heart of 4a, but are now 3a, and unless the UIL makes some type of change, they will remain in 3a because their local business/commerce dictates that these communities aren't getting any bigger at any measurable rate. This is the heart of 3a.

2. Suburb schools-These are the ones that hang around for a few years on their way to larger classifications.....Southlake Carroll and Lucas Lovejoy are good examples of this. Carroll is already in 5a and Lovejoy seems to be headed that way quickly. These types of communities are booming and growth is emminent.

3. New High Schools being added in medium size towns. Many school boards are voting to build second High Schools in their towns to keep enrollment down. Boerne is a good example of this...A few years back, they were on the verge of going 5a...and the school board approved a new highschool (Boerne Champion), thus decreasing Boerne High School numbers to 3a. They wanted the smaller school structure. I know the town of Frisco has a similar belief, and have openly said that they want to keep enrollment of their High Schools in a range that would keep them all 4a....they are not doing this for athletics, it is more for classroom numbers.

4. New High Schools being added in large cities or suburbs. This is the one that determines everything. Since the UIL charter mandates that only 245 schools will be in the largest classification, all of us get affected when schools like San Antonio Reagan, Fort Bend Hightower and Keller Central open up. Most of these bad boys open their doors with 2000 kids....and if they don't open the doors with 2000, they will be there shortly. The opening of these schools raise the ceiling on classification limits, thus making schools drop.

When I was in High School, the 3a/4a cut-off was 750 students....now its close to 1000. Soon, schools like Stephenville and LaMarque will be joining our happy family because of this......unless the UIL decides to add a classification or 2 in the next few years. :thinking:

Good post..you've also got a 5th element moving into 3A and thats the inner city school. You've already got Lubbock Estacado, Wichita Falls Hirschi FW Poly, FW Diamond Hill, Dallas Madison, Dallas Roosevelt, Dallas Smith and San Antonio Sam Houston.

You would have also had the six Houston ISD schools, Austin Reagan and FW Dunbar if they hadn't opted up....next realignment you could see El Paso Bowie, Fort Worth Wyatt, Dallas Lincoln all with 3A #s

[ccmom]

Originally posted by 91 lion
You know, its actually a really interesting topic that a few of my buddies and I discuss from time to time. We talk about how...eventhough we (Brownwood) are in 3a now, our boys are playing the same teams that we played 20 years ago.

The interesting thing about is that you have 4 types of high schools dynamics in play that determines all of this......and with the UIL mandating only 245 schools in it's largest classification (5a), we will see a lot more teams drop. The 4 types are...
...


We are feeling a bit left out over here!! :wave: :wave:

;)


Good post, though. :thumbsup:

[buckeyebob]

Originally posted by LoboesWT
Needs to happen sooner than later. Without split schedules it kind of muddles a state championship. You can play each other during regular season, but end up big school or small school in playoffs. In one district the big school team may be the size of a small school in another district. The current classification system needs improving to give a clearer picture and true state champion per classification.

Last Year Div 1 Gilmer approx 600 (628 this year)
Div 2 Carthage approx 725 (731 this year)
We are the 5th smallest

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Tin Cup
Here's a thought, not implying anything just curious. Rocket and others like myself think it's easier to win state in 3A than 4A. Not that it is EASY, just EASIER. How many of these 14 have won state in 4A? Of these same 14, how many have won in 3A?


Chapel Hill won state in 4A and has not even really come close until this year in 3A

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by bobcat1
You are funny. Ever been to Celina? Enrollment mid 500's. I think he's trying to play the recruitment card again, as if it's not been overplayed enough already.:doh:

[BwdLions]

Originally posted by ccmom
We are feeling a bit left out over here!! :wave: :wave:

;)


Good post, though. :thumbsup:

Yeah, don't leave Wylie out. There should be a a catagory for schools that should have been 4A for the past 20 years (but somehow always seemed to be a few kids short of 4A numbers)? It's tough up there, so keep doing what you're doing. :stirpot:

[ccmom]

Originally posted by BwdLions
Yeah, don't leave Wylie out. There should be a a catagory for schools that should have been 4A for the past 20 years (but somehow always seemed to be a few kids short of 4A numbers)? It's tough up there, so keep doing what you're doing. :stirpot:

All paid up until my kids graduate!! :thumbsup:

[hollywood]

Originally posted by BwdLions
Yeah, don't leave Wylie out. There should be a a catagory for schools that should have been 4A for the past 20 years (but somehow always seemed to be a few kids short of 4A numbers)? It's tough up there, so keep doing what you're doing. :stirpot:

Thank you!:clap:

[91 lion]

Originally posted by Matthew328
Good post..you've also got a 5th element moving into 3A and thats the inner city school. You've already got Lubbock Estacado, Wichita Falls Hirschi FW Poly, FW Diamond Hill, Dallas Madison, Dallas Roosevelt, Dallas Smith and San Antonio Sam Houston.

You would have also had the six Houston ISD schools, Austin Reagan and FW Dunbar if they hadn't opted up....next realignment you could see El Paso Bowie, Fort Worth Wyatt, Dallas Lincoln all with 3A #s

Totally True!

[91 lion]

Originally posted by BwdLions
Yeah, don't leave Wylie out. There should be a a catagory for schools that should have been 4A for the past 20 years (but somehow always seemed to be a few kids short of 4A numbers)? It's tough up there, so keep doing what you're doing. :stirpot:

Well, that whole Wylie and Highland Park "thing" is in a category of its own!!:thinking: :thinking:

[WOS87]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Chapel Hill won state in 4A and has not even really come close until this year in 3A

I commented in another thread long ago about this. The LAST current 3A school that dropped down from 4A to 3A and won state within 6 years was Cuero way back in 1987 (they dropped to 3A in 1982). WAY more schools have moved up from 2A to 3A and have won 3A titles. Celina, Southlake Carroll, Pilot Point, Liberty Hill and more that aren't immediately coming to mind...

Everman dropped down for 4 years and moved right back up so I'm not including them

[garciap77]

Originally posted by 91 lion
Snyder
Chapel Hill
Lubbock Cooper (I believe)
Borger
Monohans
Madison
Athens

...along with the ones already mentioned....and there are a few I'm not sure about that could be on here too.

Nice job, but you missed on AW!:D



;)

[WOS87]

Lubbock Cooper has never been 4A...


The former 4A's (or equivalent thereof... 3A prior to 1980) I have out of the final 24 are:

Alvarado
Henderson
Chapel Hill
Navasota
West Columbia
Borger
Brownwood
Monahans
Snyder
Gilmer
Dallas Madison
Carthage
Athens
Sweeny

[91 lion]

Originally posted by WOS87
Lubbock Cooper has never been 4A...


The former 4A's (or equivalent thereof... 3A prior to 1980) I have out of the final 24 are:

Alvarado
Henderson
Chapel Hill
Navasota
West Columbia
Borger
Brownwood
Monahans
Snyder
Gilmer
Dallas Madison
Carthage
Athens
Sweeny

Thanks WOS...I knew that you would know!

What game(s) are you gonna catch over the holidays

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by garciap77
Nice job, but you missed on AW!:D



;)
I think he meant still playing... we were put out of our misery last week... lol

[buckeyebob]

Originally posted by WOS87
I commented in another thread long ago about this. The LAST current 3A school that dropped down from 4A to 3A and won state within 6 years was Cuero way back in 1987 (they dropped to 3A in 1982). WAY more schools have moved up from 2A to 3A and have won 3A titles. Celina, Southlake Carroll, Pilot Point, Liberty Hill and more that aren't immediately coming to mind...

Everman dropped down for 4 years and moved right back up so I'm not including them

Put us in with Everman...only in 4A for 2 years ('96 & '97). Lump us in the 2A Group...moved up in '68.

[rykerx144]

kirbyville is by far the smallest school in 3a I bet. They only had like 4 above the cutoff on alignment day. They are like 20 students below the 2a number now.

[Matthew328]

Originally posted by WOS87
I commented in another thread long ago about this. The LAST current 3A school that dropped down from 4A to 3A and won state within 6 years was Cuero way back in 1987 (they dropped to 3A in 1982). WAY more schools have moved up from 2A to 3A and have won 3A titles. Celina, Southlake Carroll, Pilot Point, Liberty Hill and more that aren't immediately coming to mind...

Everman dropped down for 4 years and moved right back up so I'm not including them

I wish we coulda stayed 3A...*sigh*