Poll: UIL vs Ref's association

[1st and goal]

I heard that some sort of delay will keep the ref's active for the 1st month of playoffs but in December we might be refless.

After last nights game (Smithville @ Giddings), I vote the UIL takes over. There needs to be some responsibility in calling such a bad game. If you can't call it any better guys, you need to step out and let someone who can do it.

I don't think the refs have a good enough system of discipline. Nothing personal, I just need to know that there can be repercussions and discipline if you are called out by more than 1 coach.

[Tiger Dad]

I agree.

[YTBulldogs]

Have the coach send the tape into the chapter. We encourage the coaches to do this, but---most don't.

Their chapter has no way to correct a matter without the tape.

I think a reason why sometimes they don't send in the tape, when they look at it, dern if some of those penalty's were there as called.

Don't be so hard immediately. Not saying they didn't make a mistake, but---let them review it first.

And, maybe you should help us out and join TASO?

[3afan]

i you think the UIL "taking over" will result in better officiating I'm afraid you are sadly uninformed

[VWG]

The best coaches and officials are always........
IN THE STANDS


Come down from that seat in the stands, join up and start calling some Jr. High/Sub Varsity games. Then get on the field on Friday night.
It's soooo easy....... anybody can do it. :1popcorn:

[Trashman]

Having officiated the game, I want TASO win this. But in the end they won't, it's the UIL's game. They will eventually control every aspect of it.:(

[grahampaw]

Originally posted by Trashman
Having officiated the game, I want TASO win this. But in the end they won't, it's the UIL's game. They will eventually control every aspect of it.:( I am afraid your right.

[1st and goal]

I'm not saying I'm the man for the job. But I am saying that some are better at it than others. Kind of like law enforcement.

Read the other thread about Intense games in D23, seems I'm not the only one seeing issues.

I would be too lenient, letting 'em play...:clap:

[WildTexan972]

the same guys will be callin the games either way....it will just change who gets to decide the fees charged and it might mean better oversight....

tape or no tape, rarely will an association reprimand an old timer and friend to those in the group, even if they suck....only way to get those guys out is to demote them to lower level games, but with a seniority system in place for game assignments, that won't ever happen thru TASO

[TexMike]

Originally posted by 1st and goal

After last nights game (Smithville @ Giddings), I vote the UIL takes over. There needs to be some responsibility in calling such a bad game. If you can't call it any better guys, you need to step out and let someone who can do it.

Who is going to do it? You??? Do you think there are busloads of people waiting to step up if you boot someone out?

There are reprecussions. Every fb coach in this state can scratch ANY official they want, without even explaining why they are doing so. Furthermore, any chapter that receives recurring reports on teh same officials will do what it can to help them get better.

There is NO way UIL can make things any better. The UIL ran basketball last year. Ask basketball people how that went. Just as many gripes and complaints as always.

And even if you ran people off you perceieve as incompetent , it will take 3 -4 years minimum to train someone to even a minimal level of proficiency. Anyone who has experience in multiple sports will tell you fb is the hardest to officiate. The rules are very complicated. Learning the INTENT of the rules is even harder. There are 22 players being watched by 5 guys on a field that is larger than most any other athletic playing surface.

[VWG]

Originally posted by TexMike
Who is going to do it? You??? Do you think there are busloads of people waiting to step up if you boot someone out?

There are reprecussions. Every fb coach in this state can scratch ANY official they want, without even explaining why they are doing so. Furthermore, any chapter that receives recurring reports on teh same officials will do what it can to help them get better.

There is NO way UIL can make things any better. The UIL ran basketball last year. Ask basketball people how that went. Just as many gripes and complaints as always.

And even if you ran people off you perceieve as incompetent , it will take 3 -4 years minimum to train someone to even a minimal level of proficiency. Anyone who has experience in multiple sports will tell you fb is the hardest to officiate. The rules are very complicated. Learning the INTENT of the rules is even harder. There are 22 players being watched by 5 guys on a field that is larger than most any other athletic playing surface.


:clap: :clap: :inlove:

[LionFan72]

That is why we yell at ya'll all time bout wearing glasses and being blind, big field................joke. Association will not make better Ref's, commitment by the Assoc would possibly help, but I cannot see any positives either way.

[Snotbubbles]

Lion Fan, don the stripes bud, since you have better vision. I'm sure TASO could use expert's like you.

[1st and goal]

So Texmike (and any other refs out there currently working), enlighten us as to how letting the UIL be your boss would hurt you and the game. I know that TASO has been around a long time but if it acts in any type of defense of refs (like a union steward), is it really helping out the advancement of neutrality in game calling? In other words, how would having to report to UIL actually change the way you put your uniform on, travel to game, get paid, call game, and go home be?

Like I said before, this is not personal and I'm not the one you want calling your game, but there are some that need to be weeded out. Maybe there are some that are weeded out but it doesn't make front page news.

Here's another question. Why don't you see any "young" ref talent out there? I'm talking about plenty of collegiate aged young guys out there who still have great eyesight. Maybe there are but it seems I only see older guys. If you want to fly jets or helicopters for the military, you have to pass an eye exam....I'm just sayin'....:thinking:

[YTBulldogs]

Maybe those young guys with good eye sight would rather do something than get boo'd on a Friday night? Dunno, why anyone would want to do this. TASO has been trying for years to get new talent in. Then, when they get hammered in a learning JH/Fr/JV game---it don't take them long to decide this isn't for them.

I'm glad I'm done with it after this year I can tell ya. Been doing it since 1984, and at only 47---I'm ready to be a bleacher ump. Not worth it.

[TexMike]

Originally posted by 1st and goal
So Texmike (and any other refs out there currently working), enlighten us as to how letting the UIL be your boss would hurt you and the game. I know that TASO has been around a long time but if it acts in any type of defense of refs (like a union steward), is it really helping out the advancement of neutrality in game calling? In other words, how would having to report to UIL actually change the way you put your uniform on, travel to game, get paid, call game, and go home be?

Like I said before, this is not personal and I'm not the one you want calling your game, but there are some that need to be weeded out. Maybe there are some that are weeded out but it doesn't make front page news.

Here's another question. Why don't you see any "young" ref talent out there? I'm talking about plenty of collegiate aged young guys out there who still have great eyesight. Maybe there are but it seems I only see older guys. If you want to fly jets or helicopters for the military, you have to pass an eye exam....I'm just sayin'....:thinking:

Officiating and flying military aircraft, now there is a great comparison...NOT

As someone who routinely evaluates and critiques FB officials I assure you the problem is NOT eyesight. In fact some of the "worse" officials are the younger ones who you are not seeing on varsity fields. They are still tryingt to learn the game on subvasrsity fields. Having 20-15 eyesight will NOT make sure you are in the right place to make a call, not will it guarantee you even know what the heck to do based on the action you see.

Maybe the problem is not so much the eyesight of those you are observing but rather it is your own misundersatanding of the rules and lack of knowledge about what they are trained to call ?

Coaches could easily weed out the officials who do not belong (and they do). We have some fellas in our Chapter who can no longer handle the demands of varsity games. They work subvarsity but do not get varsity games. Coaches do not pick them and the chapter does not assign them.

[YTBulldogs]

Might add, we've noted numerous times since UIL began it's attempt to take us over, why we think it's a bad idea. Tired of posting it. Mike, your a trooper in re-typing bi-monthly why.

Anti-TASO, pro UIL'ers, just type in the 3adl serch field, UIL or TASO, and you'll see our reason's why it's a bad idea for UIL to take us over.

At this point, I'm just glad I'm finishing as a TASO official. This UIL takeover, if successful, will ruin the game I've loved, played and officiated. Damn shame.

And, I wear glasses:p

[Snotbubbles]

As a ex-player, that knew the rules, my kinfolk tried to get me to call when I finished playing. And, seeing the miles he drives to meetings, clinics, games, all the time involved and the BS a new official endures----it was a no brainer for me to decline.:) No way in the world would I like that. I respect that he can do this thankless job. Cause, without him, there would be no Friday night games.

[tigerball4life]

I have a “friendly’ question and since there are obviously several officials on this post and officials are the subject, I would like to ask a question regarding the sideline infraction penalty. How is it one team can be penalized for a sideline infraction and the other team be committing the same foul at the same time and not get called, is it that the officials on each side have the right to call or not call the penalty, case in point, Sealy has been called for sideline infraction 3 times this year -pause for the Sealy haters to chime in- granted each time was by the lettering of the rule as I understand it a legal call, but come on 2 of these 3 calls were on people not even on the staff and were out of the team area, journalists as a matter of fact. This year Sealy fans are paying close attention to each opponents coaching staff and they are observing many times those coaches are actually on the field further than the official or the official is right next to them and no call is made…..why….

[TexMike]

If both coaching staffs are not being treated equally it is wrong. Without knowing all the specifics it is hard to comment on this specific situation but possibilities:

1 - Your coaches are on the field and complaining "too much" about something but the other coaches are just on the field. There are officials who will incorrectly use the "sideline infraction" rule as a warning to a complaining coach. This is NOT what that rule is for.

2 - Your coaches do not get back out of the 6 foot zone along the sideline before the ball is snapped but the other team's do even though both were out on the field between plays.

[tigerball4life]

makes sense TexMike , thanks. the strange thing about last nghts penalty on the Sealy sideline less than 4 minutes into the game [so they couldn't already be on the officials bad side] it occured at about the 10 yard line and the play was a fumble recovery and TD the official threw the flag ON A REPORTER they gave the TD to Sealy but penalized them on the kick off, but hold onto your hat Sealy HATERS. the reporter worked for the BELLVILLE TIMES and was just on the sealy sideline to get a better angle. that is the 2nd time this year we have gotten a sideline penalty on a journalists.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by tigerball4life
makes sense TexMike , thanks. the strange thing about last nghts penalty on the Sealy sideline less than 4 minutes into the game [so they couldn't already be on the officials bad side] it occured at about the 10 yard line and the play was a fumble recovery and TD the official threw the flag ON A REPORTER they gave the TD to Sealy but penalized them on the kick off, but hold onto your hat Sealy HATERS. the reporter worked for the BELLVILLE TIMES and was just on the sealy sideline to get a better angle. that is the 2nd time this year we have gotten a sideline penalty on a journalists.

That flag shouldn't have even been thrown. The coaching box ends at the 25 yard line. How can you penalize a team for that. Simply ask the journalist to back up.

[CenTexSports]

I had people between the track and the field this Friday and the chain crew asked me to do something about it. I asked the head coach to get his followers on the track and he did.

If it is followers of the team on that sideline, I ask them to get back or I ask the coach to do it. If it is media I will ask them to get back or have the game administrator do it.

My crew has not called a sideline warning or interference this year. Most schools are doing really good this year. Lots of coaches push the fringe but as long as they are behind the wing men at the snap, most wing officials will not flag them.

TxMike, we had a planned loose ball play this week. I looked it up in the book but it only notes plays where the ball is close to the center. If the ball is in the backfield on the ground, is it a foul? I was reaching for my flag but they were tackled for a loss and I didn't flag it.

[VWG]

If the UIL does takeover, I would love to revisit this post in about 2-3 years.
The UIL has already stated they don't want to educate and train new officials. That will be done on the chapter level.
The UIL registration isn't just a one time deal. They will require all officials to register on an annual basis, and there will inevitably be a fee attached.
This is a money grab for the UIL.
Also, how many fans and coaches would like to see Texas HS football get away from the NCAA rules? Texas and Florida still use NCAA rules and our athletes are better prepared for the next level because they play under these rules.
Dr. B at the UIL would like to have the Federation rules apply to Texas HS football.

Everyone who thinks that the UIL wants officials registered just so they can "police" the bad officials are mistaken. Look at the other factors involved and you can see what the priorities are.

Again, why won't the UIL (if they take over) spend all that money they will have and already do have to help recruit, educate and train officials??????
They have already stated they will not do this!!
Now... does that make sense? We want to take over, but we don't want to help recruit, educate, and help in training????

[Inmateboss]

Originally posted by TexMike
Who is going to do it? You??? Do you think there are busloads of people waiting to step up if you boot someone out?

There are reprecussions. Every fb coach in this state can scratch ANY official they want, without even explaining why they are doing so. Furthermore, any chapter that receives recurring reports on teh same officials will do what it can to help them get better.

There is NO way UIL can make things any better. The UIL ran basketball last year. Ask basketball people how that went. Just as many gripes and complaints as always.

And even if you ran people off you perceieve as incompetent , it will take 3 -4 years minimum to train someone to even a minimal level of proficiency. Anyone who has experience in multiple sports will tell you fb is the hardest to officiate. The rules are very complicated. Learning the INTENT of the rules is even harder. There are 22 players being watched by 5 guys on a field that is larger than most any other athletic playing surface.

Amen Brother !!!:iagree:

[TexMike]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
I had people between the track and the field this Friday and the chain crew asked me to do something about it. I asked the head coach to get his followers on the track and he did.

If it is followers of the team on that sideline, I ask them to get back or I ask the coach to do it. If it is media I will ask them to get back or have the game administrator do it.

My crew has not called a sideline warning or interference this year. Most schools are doing really good this year. Lots of coaches push the fringe but as long as they are behind the wing men at the snap, most wing officials will not flag them.

TxMike, we had a planned loose ball play this week. I looked it up in the book but it only notes plays where the ball is close to the center. If the ball is in the backfield on the ground, is it a foul? I was reaching for my flag but they were tackled for a loss and I didn't flag it.

You nailed it on both situations! Great work. If the planned loose ball play is not "in the vic of snapper" it is not a foul. That is how come teams can run that "bounce pass" out to a wide receiver where they want defense to think it is an incomplete pass but actually it was a backward pass so ball is still live.

[CenTexSports]

Thanks.

Both coaches told me before the game that they run the belly bomb (bum). On this particular play, I knew the QB & running back did not have the ball so I was looking for the fullback, waiting for him to take off (he was not there). The only players in the backfield were two linemen on their hands and knees with the ball hidden behind (almost under them). Then here comes the QB and he reaches down and grabs the ball and off he goes.

At the beginning of the game we always break to "1,2,3 ...(insert quote)". This week it was :1,2,3...See the BALL. This could have been bad but the guys held their whistles.

[Louie13]

Originally posted by Trashman
Having officiated the game, I want TASO win this. But in the end they won't, it's the UIL's game. They will eventually control every aspect of it.:(
ditto

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by Louie13
ditto GEEZ LOUISE!!!!:D :D :D :D