Dividing the classes!

[MoveInDad]

I lived out of country for a long time, perhaps when the UIL created the Divisions within each class, I can't remember... anyway, without expressing my opinion at the moment, here is what I want to know:

[MoveInDad]

I'm interested in people's comments regarding why they think it is or is not a good idea. My initial thought is that obviously more kids get to play, however I really don't like the idea of there not being 1 TRUE State Champion per classification.
What about 2 teams from each district, higher enrollment goes D1 etc, playing a 5 game playoff to determine Division champion, with a final State Championship game between the D1 and D2 winners? Idle speculation I know, but there's plenty of that around and this has bugged me for awhile.
cheers

[Old LB]

Youth sports have gravitated towards participation for all more and more, back in the old days some kids played sports and some didn't make the cut. I prefer one champion per division but it is good for more kids to get the playoff experience. Besides that I would love for Celina to have to putup or shutup!:D

[bwdlionfan]

Since we have 2 per class anyway, I think we should go ahead and break away from 1A-5A and just call it 1A-10A.

Like right now 2A is already being split prior to the season, so why not just call them different classifications altogether.

1A and 2A would be current 1A schools
3A and 4A would be current 2A schools
5A and 6A would be current 3A schools
7A and 8A would be current 4A schools
9A and 10A would be current 5A schools

If Arkansas has 6 classifications, why not let Texas have 10? Plus the 2 six man classes.

Celina might still want that Class B thing in there somewhere though if we could fit it. :D

[Old Dog]

Two teams from each district and one state champ like when Burnet went in 1991. That year Marble Falls had a very good team that Burnet beat by a small margin and had to play them again in the regional round. Thats when we had the first of 3 straight ties. They were evenly matched and Marble Falls deserved another shot at Burnet. But two is enough, not any more.

Sorry, I'm OLD school, too much participation waters down the playoffs. We are too worried about everybodies self esteem. Bull, all most are fretting over is MONEY!

[BullBoy]

It would be cool if the Champs from DIV. 1 & DIV. 2 played against each other for the outright STATE CHAMPIONSHIP!

5A div1 champ vs 5A div2 champ

4A div1 champ vs 4A div2 champ

3A div1 champ vs 3A div2 champ

2A div1 champ vs 2A div2 champ

1A div1 champ vs 1A div2 champ

the winner would be crowned STATE CHAMPION and the loser, .. well atleast they would still be champions of their division.:D

[RPF2666]

Originally posted by Old LB
Youth sports have gravitated towards participation for all more and more, back in the old days some kids played sports and some didn't make the cut. I prefer one champion per division but it is good for more kids to get the playoff experience. Besides that I would love for Celina to have to putup or shutup!:D

I'm not sure Celina's the one doing most of the chest thumping
(this year :) )...

[RPF2666]

If the Divisions actually resulted in similar sized schools playing one another, I think it would hold more weight. Unfortunately,
enrollment 'mismatches' are all too common in the playoffs.

[BullBoy]

Originally posted by BullBoy
It would be cool if the Champs from DIV. 1 & DIV. 2 played against each other for the outright STATE CHAMPIONSHIP!

5A div1 champ vs 5A div2 champ

4A div1 champ vs 4A div2 champ

3A div1 champ vs 3A div2 champ

2A div1 champ vs 2A div2 champ

1A div1 champ vs 1A div2 champ

the winner would be crowned STATE CHAMPION and the loser, .. well atleast they would still be champions of their division.:D

and it would work out good for Celina or Brownwood, since both are predicted to win their Division (Bwood DIV2 champs & Celina DIV 1 champs) they would both square off for the final game of the season for their showdown, for the CHAMPIONSHIP!

[MoveInDad]

Originally posted by RPF2666
I'm not sure Celina's the one doing most of the chest thumping
(this year :) )...
Yeah, I'm not taking the bait...

[Tin Cup]

Originally posted by RPF2666
If the Divisions actually resulted in similar sized schools playing one another, I think it would hold more weight. Unfortunately,
enrollment 'mismatches' are all too common in the playoffs.

Brownwood has quite a few more students than Celina, yet if both win this year the enrollment numbers would be backwards because Celina would be DI and Brownwood DII. I'm sure this kind of thing happens quite often but it's still weird.

Give me 1 winner, not 2.

[MoveInDad]

Originally posted by BullBoy
and it would work out good for Celina or Brownwood, since both are predicted to win their Division (Bwood DIV2 champs & Celina DIV 1 champs) they would both square off for the final game of the season for their showdown, for the CHAMPIONSHIP!
Unlike others supporters of their team, I have nowhere said Celina is cruising to a D1 title, this thread was not meant to be leading... I also just posted my thoughts on rankings, which I regard as meaningless in football.

Some say the UIL wanted the divisions for increased revenues as they get 20% of the gate, or so I've been told, just curious to see what the mamas and poppas think.

[RPF2666]

The system IS the system, like it or not...

Ultimately, all you can do is beat whoever shows up on the other side of the field...

[BILLYFRED0000]

The real issue that the UIL is trying to get a 6a class without calling it that. If you get each of the classes to break into two divisions you wind up with super size schools at the top, which is 6a and the UIL wants it but the schools do not.

[Phil C]

Originally posted by RPF2666
The system IS the system, like it or not...

Ultimately, all you can do is beat whoever shows up on the other side of the field...

Unfortunately RPF is correct. It isn't always right because in the year we went to state we faced schools that had up to almost 300 more students for us in Division 1 and Bandera who had over 100 more students than us got to go Division 2. I would prefer that big schools play big schools and the smaller schools play smaller schools and that it would be more fair but the system is as it is. Even so we did do pretty well against the big schools.

[MoveInDad]

Originally posted by RPF2666
The system IS the system, like it or not...

Ultimately, all you can do is beat whoever shows up on the other side of the field...
Death and taxes are part of the system too, but that doesn't stop people from trying to avoid it ;)

[OldNavy]

I have been curious why the large schools are not the ones who play the 16 game schedule instead of the small schools. It seems like the two largest playoff schools from a district should go large school D1 and the smallest playoff school would go D2. That would put 64 teams going large school and 32 going small school.

It doesn't make sense to me that the smaller schools with less depth should have to play one more game than the large schools.

Also, with 64 teams in one division, the odds are that there are going to be more good teams in the smaller division than in D1 with only 32 teams. If all the large schools in each district were always the best team in the district, then it would make sense, however that is not always the case.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by OldNavy
I have been curious why the large schools are not the ones who play the 16 game schedule instead of the small schools. It seems like the two largest playoff schools from a district should go large school D1 and the smallest playoff school would go D2. That would put 64 teams going large school and 32 going small school.

It doesn't make sense to me that the smaller schools with less depth should have to play one more game than the large schools.

Also, with 64 teams in one division, the odds are that there are going to be more good teams in the smaller division than in D1 with only 32 teams. If all the large schools in each district were always the best team in the district, then it would make sense, however that is not always the case.

It will be the case in our district this year. of course the problem then is that we are the smallest large school in the state at 568. woo hoo we are big time and did not know

[defense51]

Let them all play for one true state champion like in Hoosiers! or maybe not, but it sounds good

[Rocket]

I say 1 Champ and do it like the NFL. Find 2 Division Champs and 1 State Champ.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by defense51
Let them all play for one true state champion like in Hoosiers! or maybe not, but it sounds good

That would be very unfair. Lol

[Old Cardinal]

There is such a SPREAD in enrollments(per classification) that I feel the situation warrants keeping it as it is.....Or even better, have the top HALF of largest schools by enrollment be set up in Bracket Play; likewise, let the bottom HALF get to play each other in each classification. Naming it 1-10 would not be a problem...

[Pendragon13]

I like the idea of two teams from each district getting to take their chances in the playoffs..I believe that most districts have at least two teams that are worthy. 3 teams..not so much. I know that each year I've been following Wylie they have played teams in the early rounds that probably wouldn't have won a single game if they were in a tougher district. When you can take an inexperienced backup QB into a playoff game and still win comfortably...something is wrong.

Also...I think the Div 1 champ should play the Div 2 champ for the one and only state title. (per classification of course)

[mwrams]

Believe me you don't want just one state champ like Hoosiers. having been at 5A years ago and 4A for many years and now 3A, there is now way 3A can compete with most 5A schools...oh, maybe every great once in a while a Daingerfield may appear but no way could they compete with the likes of say Euless Trinity.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Pendragon13
I like the idea of two teams from each district getting to take their chances in the playoffs..I believe that most districts have at least two teams that are worthy. 3 teams..not so much.
But how do we decide which districts have two worthy teams and which have three? In 2002, Bandera won state after getting 3rd in our district. Yes, I know, those times are rare, but without that "chance", they wouldn't have that trophy. :)

[MoveInDad]

You have a district champ and a runner-up.... where did the idea of 3 schools come from anyway? I like the idea from Rocket regarding 2 division champions based on geography... I'd say North and South as there would be a more even split of the population and they play for the State title.

Anyway, I guess this is all going nowhere... its just the current system doesn't work like the UIL intended if the result is that a Celina goes D1 with 550 kids with the outcome either a defeat by a team with perhaps almost twice the enrollment, or being crowned champion of the large school division. Makes a mockery of the system really, the UIL look foolish, we bitch about it, end up with two state champions and the debate regarding who's #1 goes on and on... thank goodness for message boards like 3adl ;)

[Pendragon13]

I still think cutting out the 3rd playoff team and letting the D2 champ play the D1 champ for the overall title is the best way to go. Last year Gilmer would have rolled Carthage, but each year is different and D1 won't always have the best team at the top..

[FHS 74]

This is a topic I have discussed for several years as to why we need three teams make the playoffs in each district. Back in the day only one team went so you layed it all out there every single week to ensure you won your district. Seemed to mean a district championship trophy meant a lot more back then than it does now. Next came the idea that the top two teams should go. Took a little getting used to, but came to accept it. I've seem over the years there are very often two teams from the same district that deserve to play on. Then came the bright idea that three is even better. Now you very possibly have teams qualifying with less than a .500 record. Granted it allows more teams and players to play another week, but if they get blown out by 60 is that the kind of experience you want to carry on the rest of your life as your only playoff game? One thing I haven't understood at all is the UIL leaving all that possible money on the table by not playing one more game. A true State Championship would bring several thousands of dollars to not only UIL pockets but also the participating school districts. It would also put to rest the burning question, "Who was best?"

[MoveInDad]

Originally posted by FHS 74
This is a topic I have discussed for several years as to why we need three teams make the playoffs in each district.....

Agreed, for instance Paris N Lamer went into the playoffs last year at 3-7, and of course got smoked 37-0 by Prosper. If the top two teams from each district went to the playoffs (ignoring enrollment) they would be placed on either side of the bracket so they could possibly meet in the 'divisional' final... means 2 teams from the same district could never play for the State Championship, but that's not possible now.
One of the knock people will have on this system is the travel, and that's a BIG consideration... anyway it ain't happenin so I don't know I keep wasting time on it. Thank goodness my boss lives in OK and has no interest in Texas 3A football.

[upper20]

Originally posted by bwdlionfan
Since we have 2 per class anyway, I think we should go ahead and break away from 1A-5A and just call it 1A-10A.

Like right now 2A is already being split prior to the season, so why not just call them different classifications altogether.

...

The proposed system would probably work really well in the large metropolitan areas (DFW, Houston, ...), but for the 3A, 4A, and 5A schools outside of those, the geographic spread of the districts would create significant travel time/expense issues.

[Txbroadcaster]

I love 3 teams..means more play off games..the lesser teams will be eliminated and it does not tarnish the play offs in anyway.

1A basketball used to have split titles AND played another game to decide the "1a champ"...it honestly was treated more like a scrimmage..and I think in football it would be as well

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by MoveInDad
You have a district champ and a runner-up.... where did the idea of 3 schools come from anyway? I like the idea from Rocket regarding 2 division champions based on geography... I'd say North and South as there would be a more even split of the population and they play for the State title.

Anyway, I guess this is all going nowhere... its just the current system doesn't work like the UIL intended if the result is that a Celina goes D1 with 550 kids with the outcome either a defeat by a team with perhaps almost twice the enrollment, or being crowned champion of the large school division. Makes a mockery of the system really, the UIL look foolish, we bitch about it, end up with two state champions and the debate regarding who's #1 goes on and on... thank goodness for message boards like 3adl ;)
If you can play, you can play. Higher enrollment does not necessarily equate to higher participation and I'm pretty sure that Celina, even with their lower enrollment, pegs the participation chart at the high end! :doh: We were the 3rd largest school in our district when we won D1...the year after winning D2 & were in the same district.

[Send_the_House]

Recognizing kids and their accomplishments is a good thing... At some point, you can certainly water it down too much, and I am not a fan of "participation ribbons", but I don't think 2 state champions is anywhere close to being considered watered down.

As you all know, the work these kids put in is remarkable, they deserve whatever praise they can get.