A & M vs. OK State

[Lucky2Coach]

Who wins this? It could be the ever decisive big game for 3rd in the Big 12 South!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Lucky2Coach
Who wins this? It could be the ever decisive big game for 3rd in the Big 12 South! As bad as UT is playing, maybe 2nd.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by DDBooger
As bad as UT is playing, maybe 2nd. Unless the Texas offense can find a rhythm (which they have yet to do) they could very well find themselves in 3rd or even possibly 4th place in the South this year. I think they'll turn it around, but they will most likely find themselves out of the top 25 after this Saturday.

But to the question of this thread, I'll go with Okie State just because they are the home team. But I think whichever team establishes the run early could dictate the flow of the game and have the upper hand.

[Lucky2Coach]

Originally posted by DDBooger
As bad as UT is playing, maybe 2nd.

Where does OSU play UT this year?

[firstdown]

OOooSSsssUUuuu...GO POKES GO

[BwdLions]

I could have sworn I clicked on an aggy-osu thread. Oh well, I say this won't be close. Cowboys by at least 20.

[hsfootballfan]

Originally posted by Lucky2Coach
Where does OSU play UT this year?

Austin, Nov. 13th

[pancho villa]

Gig em Ags

[Mojado]

OSU may win but not by much according to the 'books'... OSU 3 pt fav and started the week as a 3.5 pt fav. With 63% of the money on OSU, this close to kick-off and the line hasn't moved as much as it should have... I'm calling an upset alert... Better yet, It could be a shoot out and cover the OVER at 66 with both defenses at no.59 and 60???

Good Luck Ags and hold on to the ball Pokes!!!

[Red&White_9x5]

Have to go with Okie Light in this one. Neither has played a very tough schedule, but this is will be a big jump in talent level as compared to what the Ags have played up to this point. Taking the Cowboys at home by 7

[slpybear the bullfan]

Originally posted by hsfootballfan
Austin, Nov. 13th

Slpybear and his Smoking Hot Wife will be in attendance for that game!

[DDBooger]

I've liked what I've seen from the Cowboys. Kendal Hunter bulked up and stayed as fast as he was his sophomore year. Kid is dangerous. Weedon is pretty impressive. Has a good arm (former minor league baseball player). The D can be suspect at times. However, if Jerrod plays like he did last week, the Aggies are in trouble, OSU has good speed on D but a lot of youth.

It's funny, watching their offense, they look more like Tech under Leach than Tech does. Wide splits and all.

[eagleqb_14]

i got the aggies on this one

[spirate_9]

First real test for both these teams. Aggies by a touchdown.

If A&M's defense continues to play like it has throughout the first 3 games, and their offense finally clicks they could be in the hunt for the Big 12 South.

[eagles_victory]

This game is almost impossible to pick. You have two undefeated teams that have played noone so you really don't know what to expect. Ill go with A&M in a close one (they have beat a top 5 team this year).

[Caldwell_Raider]

I shouldn't really admit this, but A&M's defense has been a little impressive so far........

So far it's still early!

:thinking:

[trojandad]

Originally posted by Caldwell_Raider
I shouldn't really admit this, but A&M's defense has been a little impressive so far........

So far it's still early!

:thinking:

such a prophet........lol....ok st just tied it up.......

[Yoe_09]

Originally posted by Caldwell_Raider
I shouldn't really admit this, but A&M's defense has been a little impressive so far........

So far it's still early!

:thinking:

Things are not looking so great right now...but finally OSU will punt.

[Yoe_09]

and Johnson lobs another one up and it is picked off.

[Caldwell_Raider]

Okie State has finally found their rhythm on offense..... should be a good 4th quarter....

[ferilhog11]

We are just shooting ourselves in the foot. Coach S needs to figure out something to do at quarterback. Of course Coach S is a bigger mistake having him as our coach.

[HEMOTOXIC]

What a game!

[ferilhog11]

Ok. I will admit I spoke too soon. Good job Ags. Let's go!!! Whoop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OldBison75]

Tied at 35 now!!!!

[Yoe_09]

Johnson throws yet another pick and OSU wins it with a 41 FG...not a good start.

[ferilhog11]

This game is all on Johnson. He's an embarrassment. I'm sick of all his #$%^$#% up and trying to do to much. We need a qb who understands how to play the position. We will keep being a disgrace until we get a new qb and a new coach.

[Mojado]

i tried to tell yall...close game and OVER 66 was a hit... gotta love makin money!! lol

[Yoe_09]

Originally posted by ferilhog11
This game is all on Johnson. He's an embarrassment. I'm sick of all his #$%^$#% up and trying to do to much. We need a qb who understands how to play the position. We will keep being a disgrace until we get a new qb and a new coach.

I can understand your anger and I have pretty much the same feelings. Johnson just made so many bonehead plays again tonight which imo cost them the game....and if A&M dosent start winning soon then well we all know whats eventually going to happen.

[Emerson1]

What happened to JJ being better then VY?

[ferilhog11]

He is trying to do to much. That's it plain and simple. We need to put Ryan in and have a qb who is smart and can actually throw the ball. Johnson still isn't getting it done after his surgery and its time to give someone else a chance.

[trojandad]

johnson has to be a combo pass run qb, as he was last yr against texas.....once he starts the sliding bit after 3 yd gains, the defense breathes a sigh of relief.....if he had slid more against ut they would have lost 30 - 0........if he's not gonna use his speed he's a very average passer........

[Bull Moose]

The ESPN announcers were the biggest A&M homers. The way they taked up Johnson you would think he was a Heisman candidate and he is terrible. His delivery is way too long and alot of his balls wabble and hang up ther to be picked off.

[coach]

lol how can you say a guy who some of the best numbers in the entire nation last year is terrible. He is struggling a litle bit but Tannenhill IS NOT THE ANSWER. If the aggies want any chance of doing ANYTHING they keep Jarrod in the game. He is the best QB in the state simple as that. I know its frustrating but look forward into him having a solid year

[big daddy russ]

Turnovers are what killed the Ags, and you can't fault Johnson for all of them. The first two were the fault of the WR's.

I see this loss as a team that dug themselves into a hole and then had the skill players to make it a game anyways. Johnson's footwork was suspect in the second half, which led to some errant passes, but a solid effort overall. He was at fault for three turnovers and five TD's. While you never want to see that many turnovers, Brett Favre made a career of those types of games.

[navscanmaster]

If I were Sherman, it would take a couple of error free games from JJ to regain trust. Fact is the Ags were never going to be in the hunt for a BCS game this year. Tannehill or Dorman will be the leader of that squad next year and need to start seeing some action.

[JJWalker]

Headline:

Mike Leach ... Texas A&M's Head Football Coach

[DDBooger]

Told BBDE that I was really impressed with DeRuyter's (sp) impact. Aggies play good ball on defense finally. They had some lapses last night, but they did more than enough to win that game.

[halfnhalf]

Defense didn't look too bad last night. A big improvement for one of the worst in the nation last night. The only player they had a hard time containing was WR #81, but overall it was a huge difference from last year. As for Jerrod, as good as he looked sometimes is how bad he looked other times. The one pick he threw was so horribly underthrown it made me sick, the wr was wide open and had the chance of scoring on the play, but Jerrod throws a pick and the cowboys score. Then the fumble, pretty much the exact same play as the fumble against Arkansas last year. If he is going to be a dual threat qb, he has to stop carrying the ball with just his right hand and nothing else. Nobody even forced that fumble, he was just carrying it so carelessly that his hip knocked it out of his hand, then 6. Then the pick at the end was him just trying to do too much. OT would have been fine, but I don't think that was on his mind at all that final drive.

But at times he looked amazing. He converted so many important third and fourth downs, a couple of those with absolute strikes over the middle of the field. I think this is a good sign of his resolve. As many bonehead plays that he made, he kept in there and towards the end of the game, he got the momentum back towards the aggies.

But then again, he blew it in the end.

[GreenMachine]

Jerrod is not a dual threat QB. In a play that still sticks out in my mind from last nights game, Jerrod, was going to throw to a back but he was covered. So what does Jerrod do??? Throws it into the ground without even trying to run with it. He slides waayyy to much for being 6'5" and 250 lbs. Need to give Tannehill his shot. He would be a better runner and a more accurate passer. On the defensive side, a few mistakes but great intensity. The defense will keep them in ballgames and A&M will win if you don't have the turnovers.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by coach
lol how can you say a guy who some of the best numbers in the entire nation last year is terrible. He is struggling a litle bit but Tannenhill IS NOT THE ANSWER. If the aggies want any chance of doing ANYTHING they keep Jarrod in the game. He is the best QB in the state simple as that. I know its frustrating but look forward into him having a solid year Two words Andy Dalton

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by coach
lol how can you say a guy who some of the best numbers in the entire nation last year is terrible. He is struggling a litle bit but Tannenhill IS NOT THE ANSWER. If the aggies want any chance of doing ANYTHING they keep Jarrod in the game. He is the best QB in the state simple as that. I know its frustrating but look forward into him having a solid year

I disagree. He's not the best QB in the state and he probably isn't the best QB on the roster. I've read on some of the aggie sites that there's been some grumbling in the locker room before OSU that Tannehill needs to be starting.

Here's the thing, JJ had that shoulder surgery in the offseason and you can tell he just doesnt have it yet.

As someone mentioned, anytime he tries to throw over 20 yards, they ball sails on him and his accuracy is very poor. I think this is 100% an 'injury issue'. The question is whether Sherman will have the stones to make a decision.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

There is nothing more than I enjoy than a bunch of people who have no affiliation with a team try to chastise and ridicule the hard work and the effort of the members and coaching staff of that team. Maybe I missed the memo where any of you were entitled to do such a thing. Now, I know that some of you might take it a little hard, but you need to realize that your words and opinions literally mean nothing.

The reason that I say that is because you've invested nothing in the outcome of that game. Nobody who isn't directly associated with that team has any right to place any criticism or blame towards any player on that team or offer up their "solution" to what they consider to be a "problem" for Texas A&M Football. The reason being is that Jerrod Johnson or any other collegiate player is in the position they are is because they made a commitment to something and worked hard to get there.

Sure, Jerrod made some mistakes, but there has been and never will be a player who is perfect every game. The people who really know nothing about football are the ones who are complaining and pointing fingers, even though they really have a limited amount of true knowledge about the game, and an even smaller and almost non-existent amount of knowing what it takes to get there.

I have nothing but respect for Jerrod and I don't think that it's fair for anyone to throw him under the bus. He is by far one of the hardest working and most dedicated players that I've ever been around, and he is more talented that some people are willing to give him credit for. There are some things that he needs to work on, but all in all, he has a tremendous skill set. Tannehill and Dorman are also great players and competitors, but I will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jerrod Johnson is the best quarterback that A&M has on the roster. A couple of mistakes and everyone forgets every other game that he has played and how successful and impressive he was. It isn't fair to judge him by a couple of bad games, and even less fair to say that every turnover was his fault...I really hope that none of you make a mistake at work and your boss fires you without considering all of the great work that you've done before.

That is all beside the point; Jerrod sacrifices everything and works hard every single day, and even if he had no skills whatsoever, I will always feel like he deserves nothing but respect from not just myself, but anybody who watches him play; fan of A&M or not. I'm not making excuses for his mistakes, but anybody who has any football sense knows that there is no such thing as a perfect player. But there are perfect teammates who work hard, sacrifice, lead by example, and dedicate themselves entirely to the team. The bottom line is that he is a talented and hard-working young man who has been working most of his life to get to where he is, so consider that next time you sit on your ass and flip on the TV and watch someone else play the game that they love.

None of you will ever take a loss as hard as one of of those players will, and you will never relish in the victories like any of those players will. It's our hard work, sacrifice, and dedication that makes the game possible, and I promise you that day in and day out, your entertainment is never even a passing thought or even the slightest driving force of motivation for any of us. You can keep talking trash and feeling important, but your negative thoughts and opinions mean nothing and only make you look like a fool. Jerrod has had a couple of tough games, but you "experts" are the real losers, because not only do you not have any real understanding on the subject that you're discussing, but you never will and never could do what Jerrod does.

And Kyle, this one is specifically directed towards you: You were never a football player. You have never made the sacrifice to go out and play and train because now, just like when you had the opportunity to play, you spent your time running your mouth about the people who have and do. That's why I will never have any respect for you. And just so you know, Jerrod has been a standout at the Manning Passing Academy the past two seasons even after coming off of shoulder surgery this offseason. Last year when he wasn't injured, he beat out Sam Bradford, Greg McElroy, and Jevan Snead in an accuracy and passing skills competition. Of course, I shouldn't waste my time explaining why I think Jerrod is a better quarterback than Vince Young to a guy who never played. I'm sure you think you're knowledgeable though, so I'm sure that's all that matters to you.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
There is nothing more than I enjoy than a bunch of people who have no affiliation with a team try to chastise and ridicule the hard work and the effort of the members and coaching staff of that team. Maybe I missed the memo where any of you were entitled to do such a thing. Now, I know that some of you might take it a little hard, but you need to realize that your words and opinions literally mean nothing.

The reason that I say that is because you've invested nothing in the outcome of that game. Nobody who isn't directly associated with that team has any right to place any criticism or blame towards any player on that team or offer up their "solution" to what they consider to be a "problem" for Texas A&M Football. The reason being is that Jerrod Johnson or any other collegiate player is in the position they are is because they made a commitment to something and worked hard to get there.

Sure, Jerrod made some mistakes, but there has been and never will be a player who is perfect every game. The people who really know nothing about football are the ones who are complaining and pointing fingers, even though they really have a limited amount of true knowledge about the game, and an even smaller and almost non-existent amount of knowing what it takes to get there.

I have nothing but respect for Jerrod and I don't think that it's fair for anyone to throw him under the bus. He is by far one of the hardest working and most dedicated players that I've ever been around, and he is more talented that some people are willing to give him credit for. There are some things that he needs to work on, but all in all, he has a tremendous skill set. Tannehill and Dorman are also great players and competitors, but I will say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jerrod Johnson is the best quarterback that A&M has on the roster. A couple of mistakes and everyone forgets every other game that he has played and how successful and impressive he was. It isn't fair to judge him by a couple of bad games, and even less fair to say that every turnover was his fault...I really hope that none of you make a mistake at work and your boss fires you without considering all of the great work that you've done before.

That is all beside the point; Jerrod sacrifices everything and works hard every single day, and even if he had no skills whatsoever, I will always feel like he deserves nothing but respect from not just myself, but anybody who watches him play; fan of A&M or not. I'm not making excuses for his mistakes, but anybody who has any football sense knows that there is no such thing as a perfect player. But there are perfect teammates who work hard, sacrifice, lead by example, and dedicate themselves entirely to the team. The bottom line is that he is a talented and hard-working young man who has been working most of his life to get to where he is, so consider that next time you sit on your ass and flip on the TV and watch someone else play the game that they love.

None of you will ever take a loss as hard as one of of those players will, and you will never relish in the victories like any of those players will. It's our hard work, sacrifice, and dedication that makes the game possible, and I promise you that day in and day out, your entertainment is never even a passing thought or even the slightest driving force of motivation for any of us. You can keep talking trash and feeling important, but your negative thoughts and opinions mean nothing and only make you look like a fool. Jerrod has had a couple of tough games, but you "experts" are the real losers, because not only do you not have any real understanding on the subject that you're discussing, but you never will and never could do what Jerrod does.

And Kyle, this one is specifically directed towards you: You were never a football player. You have never made the sacrifice to go out and play and train because now, just like when you had the opportunity to play, you spent your time running your mouth about the people who have and do. That's why I will never have any respect for you. And just so you know, Jerrod has been a standout at the Manning Passing Academy the past two seasons even after coming off of shoulder surgery this offseason. Last year when he wasn't injured, he beat out Sam Bradford, Greg McElroy, and Jevan Snead in an accuracy and passing skills competition. Of course, I shouldn't waste my time explaining why I think Jerrod is a better quarterback than Vince Young to a guy who never played. I'm sure you think you're knowledgeable though, so I'm sure that's all that matters to you.


So..........



The Rangers made the playoffs :2thumbsup

[Caldwell_Raider]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
So..........



The Rangers made the playoffs :2thumbsup


lol yep! Woo! :D

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Maybe I missed the memo where any of you were entitled to do such a thing.
It came out in the late 1700's you can find it in most History books. I agree with you on a lot of what you said and feel for Jerrod because he does work hard and he does have a lot of skills and having been an athlete I am sure noone is taking this as hard as he is. But everyone has a right to state an opinion just as much as you do and that is what I think your missing. Don't get me wrong I personally will put more stock in the opinion of someone who has been in the program for four years over people who haven't, but that doesn't mean they have no right to discuss their feelings on the matter.

[Macarthur]

BBDE, I respect the heck out of your post. And you're right that JJ has had a great career and does a ton of things right. He is a fine representative of Texas A&M.

However, I really do believe the shoulder is still an issue. I know you couldn't say even if you thought it still was, but there those that scout for a living that have said he doesn't look right. So, I don't think this is something that folks are dreaming up.

None of us are at practice everyday so I have no idea if Tannehill is 'better'. However, I think better is a realtive term in these types of situations. As the great Jimmy Johnson says, "It isn't how many great plays you make; It's about how many bad plays you don't make." I just wonder if Tannehill doesn't give the team a better chance to win, especially given that the defense appears to be improved and you shouldn't have to put up 35 points every game to win.

One last thing about your sensitivity. I would defend one of my teammates to the end, also. However, keep in mind that your analogy about someone messing up at work and getting fired is not quite an accurate analogy. When players get demoted, they may lose playing time, but they don't exactly get fired. And yes, if you do continually screw up, you will get fired (I'm not saying JJ is continually screwing up). You just can't really compare sports to the real world because it just ain't.

[coach]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Two words Andy Dalton

completely for got about that ginger...srry bout that even though he was benched in one my dynasty i had with tcu

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
It came out in the late 1700's you can find it in most History books. I agree with you on a lot of what you said and feel for Jerrod because he does work hard and he does have a lot of skills and having been an athlete I am sure noone is taking this as hard as he is. But everyone has a right to state an opinion just as much as you do and that is what I think your missing. Don't get me wrong I personally will put more stock in the opinion of someone who has been in the program for four years over people who haven't, but that doesn't mean they have no right to discuss their feelings on the matter.

No, you don't have the right to have an opinion. Because it's not your hard work or sacrifice that goes into it. My opinion, good or bad, doesn't matter, and I know that. The same goes for you or anybody else. And what I said about Jerrod wasn't a matter of personal opinion, it's a matter of what is real and factual. Jerrod is talented or he would never be where he is today. And I know for a fact how much effort and work he puts into the game. Everything that I said is tangible, real, and can be validated. Me saying that I think Jerrod is one of the most talented quarterbacks in college football is opinion, and I really do believe that, but that opinion doesn't matter because ultimately how Jerrod plays and performs is never going to be affected by it. He, like any other player, started working and putting in the time when he was just a kid, and my opinion, nor that of anyone else, was what motivated that man to dedicate himself as much as he has. In the scope of things, our opinions of him never matter. The same goes for any other player.

The whole point of me saying what I did was that it is not our place to try to tear down or belittle the accomplishments of someone, especially when that someone has put forth more effort into being successful than many will ever put towards anything that they do. As fans, you're not the ones who sacrifice your mental and physical well-being, it's the players. You will never know or understand the price that is paid and the investment that is required because you're not the one who is doing it. And I say you, but I'm directing this towards everyone.

I know what it takes because I've made the commitment and I've made the sacrifices. I've spent the last three years of my life with lower back pain, and have every day since the last time I put on a helmet and probably will every day for the rest of my life. The path for me started when I was ten years old and I made the decision that I was going to play college football. And I put in the work to get there. And I know what it's like to see all of that hard work and dedication vanish. I gave up drinking soda for eight years and busted my ass in the weight room and on the practice field and put everything in my life outside of my family behind football. There are no telling how many miles of sprints I've ran, or how many reps of squats or bench press I've done, or gallons of sweat and blood I invested.

Open up DCTF Magazine from last year and look up the depth chart for A&M and tell me who you see on there.

Now remind me once again what makes you or anyone else entitled to have an opinion of the talent or skill level of any player? The bottom line is that you never will, because you have no right to judge the work and effort put forth by another man. There is a reason why people are only spectators and never participants; and the people who have made the commitment and sacrifice and know what it takes to get there respect the other people who do and have. Everyone wants to be great and wants to be a winner, but instead of doing what it takes they want to tear down the efforts of those who have actually worked for it.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

And Kyle, this one is specifically directed towards you: You were never a football player. You have never made the sacrifice to go out and play and train because now, just like when you had the opportunity to play, you spent your time running your mouth about the people who have and do. That's why I will never have any respect for you. And just so you know, Jerrod has been a standout at the Manning Passing Academy the past two seasons even after coming off of shoulder surgery this offseason. Last year when he wasn't injured, he beat out Sam Bradford, Greg McElroy, and Jevan Snead in an accuracy and passing skills competition. Of course, I shouldn't waste my time explaining why I think Jerrod is a better quarterback than Vince Young to a guy who never played. I'm sure you think you're knowledgeable though, so I'm sure that's all that matters to you.
No I didn't play much in High School, but running my mouth about the people who played? LOL I was probably the biggest supporter among students my senior year because most of my friends played. I still, every week, put a little write up on a community message board informing people about the upcoming game and was almost the owner of the main forney sports site. But yes, all I do is talk **** about people who play.

That is good for him, I'm not the aggie nation saying he is terrible and to cut him from the team like your loyal aggie fan base is. It's sad that I actually like JJ more then most of the fans of a&m do. I and everyone else in the world know he isn't better then VY. I bet even he doesn't think it. I actually feel bad for him that expectations were raised so high.

[Macarthur]

Now BBDE, while I respect you taking up for teammate, you are starting to come across as sanctimonious.

YOu may not realize this yet, but lots of us do work very hard at our jobs. Many of us did work very hard when we were athletes.

None of us are saying that JJ is a bum. Sports for better or worse (I believe better) is a results oriented endeavor.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END


Open up DCTF Magazine from last year and look up the depth chart for A&M and tell me who you see on there.

Did I ever say you weren't on the team I was at the game when you got honored on the field with your parents. Not everyone is attacking you. Is it neccessary to go in full on defense mode everytime someone makes a comment?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
BBDE, I respect the heck out of your post. And you're right that JJ has had a great career and does a ton of things right. He is a fine representative of Texas A&M.

However, I really do believe the shoulder is still an issue. I know you couldn't say even if you thought it still was, but there those that scout for a living that have said he doesn't look right. So, I don't think this is something that folks are dreaming up.

None of us are at practice everyday so I have no idea if Tannehill is 'better'. However, I think better is a realtive term in these types of situations. As the great Jimmy Johnson says, "It isn't how many great plays you make; It's about how many bad plays you don't make." I just wonder if Tannehill doesn't give the team a better chance to win, especially given that the defense appears to be improved and you shouldn't have to put up 35 points every game to win.

One last thing about your sensitivity. I would defend one of my teammates to the end, also. However, keep in mind that your analogy about someone messing up at work and getting fired is not quite an accurate analogy. When players get demoted, they may lose playing time, but they don't exactly get fired. And yes, if you do continually screw up, you will get fired (I'm not saying JJ is continually screwing up). You just can't really compare sports to the real world because it just ain't.

I think that you halfway understood what I was trying to say when I talked about someone getting fired at work; what I meant was that it's not fair to be written off and discarded for a few isolated incidents. The people who are criticizing Jerrod are the ones who are taking the last few games and presenting it as though it is indicative of his level of skill and ability to lead our team and be a great quarterback. Getting fired from your job from having a couple of slip-ups is just as fair as everyone throwing Jerrod under the bus for having a couple of bad games. With that being said, it should be fairly obvious that I'm not trying to compare the two; only present that both situations are extreme, unfair, and completely ridiculous.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Now BBDE, while I respect you taking up for teammate, you are starting to come across as sanctimonious.

YOu may not realize this yet, but lots of us do work very hard at our jobs. Many of us did work very hard when we were athletes.

None of us are saying that JJ is a bum. Sports for better or worse (I believe better) is a results oriented endeavor.

Yeah, and I don't come into your place of work and tell you how you can do it better, or even suggest that someone else can. Imagine how you felt if that happened to you. Or even for one of your co-workers, who you knew was a great employee, a hard worker, and had been working their entire life to get where they are. Don't accuse me of being sanctimonious whenever you or anyone else thinks you have the right to do the same thing to us as players.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, and I don't come into your place of work and tell you how you can do it better, or even suggest that someone else can. Imagine how you felt if that happened to you. Or even for one of your co-workers, who you knew was a great employee, a hard worker, and had been working their entire life to get where they are. Don't accuse me of being sanctimonious whenever you or anyone else thinks you have the right to do the same thing to us as players.
You criticize elected officials, they are in a place of work.

Students are paying $5,000+ a semester while football players are waited on hand and foot and get to go to school for free. Why don't the students have an opinion on the team that THEY fund and pay for?

You would have a completely valid point if it was a HS team/kids in question, but it's not, and you don't.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, and I don't come into your place of work and tell you how you can do it better, or even suggest that someone else can. Imagine how you felt if that happened to you. Or even for one of your co-workers, who you knew was a great employee, a hard worker, and had been working their entire life to get where they are. Don't accuse me of being sanctimonious whenever you or anyone else thinks you have the right to do the same thing to us as players. It is part of it as a football player Gary you know that as well as anyone. Your a QB of a D1 football team facing critics is part of it. I mean lets not play the poor Jerrod card he is getting a free education at one of the best colleges in this southern United States and I'm sure a lot of other benefits on top of that and will probably play a game for the rest of his life and be a millionaire I respect him because he worked to get there but lets not act like he has it so bad here. People actually come into my job and critcize me and tell me how to do my job all the time it is part of life everyone has a critic right or wrong.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Emerson1
No I didn't play much in High School, but running my mouth about the people who played? LOL I was probably the biggest supporter among students my senior year because most of my friends played. I still, every week, put a little write up on a community message board informing people about the upcoming game and was almost the owner of the main forney sports site. But yes, all I do is talk **** about people who play.

That is good for him, I'm not the aggie nation saying he is terrible and to cut him from the team like your loyal aggie fan base is. It's sad that I actually like JJ more then most of the fans of a&m do. I and everyone else in the world know he isn't better then VY. I bet even he doesn't think it. I actually feel bad for him that expectations were raised so high.

Yeah, you were a supporter, but your support had no influence on the success of failure of any player on that team, or the ultimate outcome of any game. No athlete needs people patting them on the ass and telling them they're doing a good job to want to go out and become a better player, it's a decision that we make day in and day out because we love the game we play and the teammates that we fight, bleed, and sweat with. It's not about the supporters or the fans or the naysayers.

And Jerrod Johnson is a more talented quarterback than Vince Young will ever be. But you're going to rely on the last two games to build your argument that he isn't. In the end though, your opinion doesn't matter, and neither does mine. But at least I can say that I know what it takes to get there and I did everything that it took to do so, all you can talk about is how supportive you were and how important you think your contributions are. The same can be said about the rest of the Aggie nation who has nothing but bad things to say about Jerrod or any other player on that team. Good for you guys though, at least you can find some like-minded people and you can sit around and talk about how great you could have been and discuss how good or bad a certain player is.

[Macarthur]

Actually, these types of things do happen in life. If you think once you're finished with football, no one will critique you ever again, you will be surprised. YOu can't have it both ways. You can't play big time college football, that generates millions of dollars of revenue, and not expect people that pay exorbinate amounts of money for tickets to express their opinion when they are frustrated.

Granted, it doesn't happen on message boards, but it still happens.

And again, no one is saying that JJ is lazy and sucks. Great! He's a hard worker! Your implication is that he works harder than say OSU's QB does....ultimately no one cares how hard he works during the week. All A&M fans want is for the team to win on Saturday.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
. The same can be said about the rest of the Aggie nation who has nothing but bad things to say about Jerrod or any other player on that team.

Here's where I believe you are way off.

Texas A&M has one of the most supportive fan bases in the country. I can assure you that if JJ were the starting QB for Alabama, you could not even begin to believe how much grief he would be getting.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, you were a supporter, but your support had no influence on the success of failure of any player on that team, or the ultimate outcome of any game. No athlete needs people patting them on the ass and telling them they're doing a good job to want to go out and become a better player, it's a decision that we make day in and day out because we love the game we play and the teammates that we fight, bleed, and sweat with. It's not about the supporters or the fans or the naysayers.

And Jerrod Johnson is a more talented quarterback than Vince Young will ever be. But you're going to rely on the last two games to build your argument that he isn't. In the end though, your opinion doesn't matter, and neither does mine. But at least I can say that I know what it takes to get there and I did everything that it took to do so, all you can talk about is how supportive you were and how important you think your contributions are. The same can be said about the rest of the Aggie nation who has nothing but bad things to say about Jerrod or any other player on that team. Good for you guys though, at least you can find some like-minded people and you can sit around and talk about how great you could have been and discuss how good or bad a certain player is.
Now you are contradicting yourself. You said that I " spent your time running your mouth about the people who have and do. " When in reality it was the complete opposite.

Again, I like JJ, I don't hate him like the aggie fan base does. I just don't think he is one of the greatest college players in the history of the game like you(and only you) do.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by eagles_victory
Did I ever say you weren't on the team I was at the game when you got honored on the field with your parents. Not everyone is attacking you. Is it neccessary to go in full on defense mode everytime someone makes a comment?

I'm not trying to defend myself. I'm telling not only you and everybody else that I know what it takes. I've been there and I know what I'm talking about. Taking that into my consideration, my words have credibility and merit.


Originally posted by eagles_victory
It is part of it as a football player Gary you know that as well as anyone. Your a QB of a D1 football team facing critics is part of it. I mean lets not play the poor Jerrod card he is getting a free education at one of the best colleges in this southern United States and I'm sure a lot of other benefits on top of that and will probably play a game for the rest of his life and be a millionaire I respect him because he worked to get there but lets not act like he has it so bad here. People actually come into my job and critcize me and tell me how to do my job all the time it is part of life everyone has a critic right or wrong.


Originally posted by Emerson1
You criticize elected officials, they are in a place of work.

Students are paying $5,000+ a semester while football players are waited on hand and foot and get to go to school for free. Why don't the students have an opinion on the team that THEY fund and pay for?

You would have a completely valid point if it was a HS team/kids in question, but it's not, and you don't.

No, he's not getting a free education. There is nothing that is free about being a college athlete. Anything great that comes out of it for Jerrod has been earned by Jerrod and Jerrod alone because he made the decision a long time ago to commit himself to something and be successful at it.

Waited on hand and foot? I must have missed that when I would walk into a locker room after conditioning and seeing guys who have pushed themselves past the point of exhaustion sprawled out on the floor.

You two have proven my point exactly when I say that anybody who hasn't lived it can never know what it takes to be a college football player. And that's why you and everyone else feels like you are entitled to criticize or provide opinion over the people who do step out on the field and play it. First of all, every single collegiate athlete is an amateur athlete. Here is a definition for you:

Amateur: an athlete who does not play for pay; someone who pursues a study or sport as a pastime.

Free education? The efforts of Texas A&M Football players brought in over $40 million dollars in revenue for the University, and I can't think of a single player who received a single penny of that money simply because it never happened. A scholarship is the least that any college athlete should receive for their efforts, because they bring in revenue which improves the education that can be provided to the general student body. And what we do isn't free for us. No other student on campus risks their physical or mental health like athletes do. No other student on campus can say that they risk their bodies and their future health for their university like athletes do day in and day out.

The bottom line is that none of you understand what it's like because you have never done it. You never had to make the sacrifices that we made and probably never will. We risk it all and put it all out there; we spend hours every day trying to improve ourselves and be successful at what we do. If what we did were easy and didn't cost us anything, more people would do it. There is a reason that there are very few people who can say they were college football players or athletes for a reason, and it's because it requires a great commitment and sacrifice than 99% of the people who ever play a sport are willing to make to be successful. The bottom line is that you will never understand what goes into it and what it takes because you will be nothing but a spectator and a critic.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Now you are contradicting yourself. You said that I " spent your time running your mouth about the people who have and do. " When in reality it was the complete opposite.

Again, I like JJ, I don't hate him like the aggie fan base does. I just don't think he is one of the greatest college players in the history of the game like you(and only you) do.

Where did I say that he was one of the greatest players in the game? And you have spent your time running your mouth about people who do, it doesn't matter if the things you have said were supportive or negative. You talk about football, and that's all you ever have done and all you ever will do. And the truth about football or anything else in life that it's always easier to talk about it than it is to do it. The difference between you and me is that you're a talker and I'm a doer.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I'm not trying to defend myself. I'm telling not only you and everybody else that I know what it takes. I've been there and I know what I'm talking about. Taking that into my consideration, my words have credibility and merit.





No, he's not getting a free education. There is nothing that is free about being a college athlete. Anything great that comes out of it for Jerrod has been earned by Jerrod and Jerrod alone because he made the decision a long time ago to commit himself to something and be successful at it.

Waited on hand and foot? I must have missed that when I would walk into a locker room after conditioning and seeing guys who have pushed themselves past the point of exhaustion sprawled out on the floor.

You two have proven my point exactly when I say that anybody who hasn't lived it can never know what it takes to be a college football player. And that's why you and everyone else feels like you are entitled to criticize or provide opinion over the people who do step out on the field and play it. First of all, every single collegiate athlete is an amateur athlete. Here is a definition for you:

Amateur: an athlete who does not play for pay; someone who pursues a study or sport as a pastime.

Free education? The efforts of Texas A&M Football players brought in over $40 million dollars in revenue for the University, and I can't think of a single player who received a single penny of that money simply because it never happened. A scholarship is the least that any college athlete should receive for their efforts, because they bring in revenue which improves the education that can be provided to the general student body. And what we do isn't free for us. No other student on campus risks their physical or mental health like athletes do. No other student on campus can say that they risk their bodies and their future health for their university like athletes do day in and day out.

The bottom line is that none of you understand what it's like because you have never done it. You never had to make the sacrifices that we made and probably never will. We risk it all and put it all out there; we spend hours every day trying to improve ourselves and be successful at what we do. If what we did were easy and didn't cost us anything, more people would do it. There is a reason that there are very few people who can say they were college football players or athletes for a reason, and it's because it requires a great commitment and sacrifice than 99% of the people who ever play a sport are willing to make to be successful. The bottom line is that you will never understand what goes into it and what it takes because you will be nothing but a spectator and a critic.


BBDE, I'm not going to argue with you much here because what I sense is (of course) you are young. While I certainly don't think you guys 'have it easy', you are also not using the proper perspective on how many people never get the opportunities a guy like JJ has gotten. People that would work even harder. There are people that have even more talent than JJ in other areas and have never had the opportunities afforded them that JJ has gotten.

I'm not saying that he hasn't worked for what he has, but what you are missing here is some perspective that will only come as you get older and have more life experience.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, you were a supporter, but your support had no influence on the success of failure of any player on that team, or the ultimate outcome of any game. No athlete needs people patting them on the ass and telling them they're doing a good job to want to go out and become a better player, it's a decision that we make day in and day out because we love the game we play and the teammates that we fight, bleed, and sweat with. It's not about the supporters or the fans or the naysayers.



Very interesting you talk like this when your college touts the "12th man". Are you saying this organization is insignificant. I'm sure there are many boosters and supporters in organizations like this that can make life as a college athlete much different than what you probably experienced.

[Old Tiger]

Heard A&M ran out of time.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Actually, these types of things do happen in life. If you think once you're finished with football, no one will critique you ever again, you will be surprised. YOu can't have it both ways. You can't play big time college football, that generates millions of dollars of revenue, and not expect people that pay exorbinate amounts of money for tickets to express their opinion when they are frustrated.

Granted, it doesn't happen on message boards, but it still happens.

And again, no one is saying that JJ is lazy and sucks. Great! He's a hard worker! Your implication is that he works harder than say OSU's QB does....ultimately no one cares how hard he works during the week. All A&M fans want is for the team to win on Saturday.

Once again, I think you're missing the point completely. I don't think that it's the place of anyone to criticize anyone for working hard, dreaming big, and living that dream. This is a principle that transcends football but that should be applied to everyday life.

You have to understand that football is a game where the only people who are directly affected by the outcome are the people who are putting in the work, not the people who are sitting in the stands or the ones who are at home watching it on TV. They will never appreciate or understand what it takes to play at the level that we do. They will never take a loss as hard as we do. They will never taste the success that we do. And they will do what they do best, and all they can do, which is talk about it.

Playing football isn't like being a government official or an an employee for a company where the mistakes of an individual can directly influence or affect other people in a negative way. People pay to watch football because it's a leisure activity for them, it's not something that is life or death for them. When we get hurt, they don't get hurt. When we lose, they don't lose. When we win, they don't win. Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind.

And for the record, I never said that Jerrod worked harder than any other player for any other team, only that he works hard and has for longer than he has been alive to get to where he is today. There isn't a fan base anywhere in the country that has the right to have anything negative to say about any player who makes a mistake on the football field. Like I said, it's not their hard work, their sacrifice, or their health that they're investing into the game.

There isn't a single fan who should feel like their opinion should matter. I didn't start working my ass off all of those years ago for the people who pay to watch our games, and neither did any other player on that team or any other team for any other sport. We did it because we love the game and wanted to be successful at it. Like I said, there is probably 1000% more football played by us and prepared for by us when nobody is watching than when there is. We don't play for the fans and we would play with or without them. Spectators pay to watch us play because they want to, not because we need them to. That is another cold hard fact that fans don't want to accept. Like I've said over and over again, fans and what they think they contribute never have and never will be the driving force behind the investment and sacrifice that players make. Common sense would should tell you that, and if you don't believe me go ask a Pop Warner player if he plays football because he loves the game, and if he wants to play college football because of all of the money that the university will make off of his hard work.

There isn't a single college athlete who expects or demands contributions from anyone; fans provide money to satisfy their own desire to see us play. With that, of course they think they're going to be experts and it's okay to ridicule and criticize. I have a news flash for you and anyone else who has ever paid admission for a football game: No amount of money that you pay can compare to the cost of the effort, risk, and sacrifice that we give. You paid $100 for a ticket? Well, I paid with a lifelong back injury that I'm reminded of constantly every day and I'm not the only player who has or will. And that's on top of all of the work that I put into it over the course of 10+ years. But I guess that fans will always pay more than we do as players.

[trojandad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, you were a supporter, but your support had no influence on the success of failure of any player on that team, or the ultimate outcome of any game. No athlete needs people patting them on the ass and telling them they're doing a good job to want to go out and become a better player, it's a decision that we make day in and day out because we love the game we play and the teammates that we fight, bleed, and sweat with. It's not about the supporters or the fans......

wow.......what a statement......you really want to rethink, or at least rephrase this one.....concept of the 12th man kinda disappears on statements like this.....i could see an athlete from any other school saying this, but an aggie?!?!? you're WAY too worked up.....:confused:

[Emerson1]

"Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind. "

Ranger Mom, didn't you fall in the stands one season?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
BBDE, I'm not going to argue with you much here because what I sense is (of course) you are young. While I certainly don't think you guys 'have it easy', you are also not using the proper perspective on how many people never get the opportunities a guy like JJ has gotten. People that would work even harder. There are people that have even more talent than JJ in other areas and have never had the opportunities afforded them that JJ has gotten.

I'm not saying that he hasn't worked for what he has, but what you are missing here is some perspective that will only come as you get older and have more life experience.

Older? More experienced? Did you ever play college football? What have YOU given to the game? I'm asking for you to give respect and credit to the people who deserve it and I'm the one missing perspective? I know all about opportunities. I came and walked on at A&M. I earned everything that I have and worked every single day for it. I put it all out there. I know what it takes.

And I may be younger, but let's take this into consideration. In debate, there is a term called "ad hominem" and in case you're not familiar with it, here is the definition:

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument toward the person" or "argument against the person"), is an argument which links the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.

Instead of taking what I say into consideration, you say that becoming older will change my perspective, but it won't. I've been there. I've experienced it. I have the proper perspective, because I started with nothing and worked my way up from being 6th string on the depth chart. I took the necessary sacrifices and did what it took to get to where I wanted to be. There only time I truly feel that a person has an excuse for not being successful in athletics is due to physical or mental handicap, and maybe sometimes social constraints or other extenuating circumstances that prevent it; but those are truly rare.

I got to where I was because I started at a young age and worked my ass off, and let nothing stand in my way. While my classmates in high school were staying up late and partying, I was taking care of my body and preparing myself so I could attain my future goals. Like I said, it takes a lot of work and sacrifice that many people aren't willing to make. If a person plays football in junior high and high school and never plays in college, it's probably because they didn't work hard enough to get there or they had some extraordinary circumstance that kept them from doing it.

The reason that you don't want to argue with me is that you can't come up with a single logical and sensible reason to why fans should have the right to ridicule and criticize Jerrod Johnson or any other collegiate athlete; it has nothing to do with my age.

[Emerson1]

"Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind. "

Ranger Mom, didn't you fall in the stands one season?


"While my classmates in high school were staying up late and partying, "
That's a burn on old tiger.

[RoyceTTU]

WOW, We all can tell you are upset and you've made very good points. The truth is you put way too much emotion into your statements and have isolated yourself, the coaching staff, and the entire A&M football team past and future.

The simple truth is there are many people out there that support you and your college as well as the football team. Whether you understand it or not, every single person that puts forth any effort towards an organzation, university, team etc....in any way whether it be from playing, ticket sales, donations etc....takes away benefits in their own way. To think none have an effect on each other is way off key.

I am completely going out on a limb here, but I would be willing to bet if you printed your statements out and let your coaches, families and friends read these, they would question your motives.


No one here doubts anything you are saying, but you are trying to force demands that you have no right to. I hope you take a step back and read through your post as an objective reader with a clear and open mind.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Playing football or any other sport for any university isn't about the fans, and that includes the 12th Man that is associated with Texas A&M University because the path that led any athlete to play at the next level started long before they stepped foot onto any campus. My love for football didn't start because of the 12th Man, it started because I enjoyed playing the game and because I made the conscious decision to work hard and sacrifice in order to be successful. The same can be said for any other collegiate athlete. The fan base for any college didn't get us to where we are, our own hard work and sacrifice did. And the only people who are directly affected by the outcome of a game are the people who are actually coaching or playing. We didn't get to where we are and continue to keep playing because of the fans, we do so because we love our teammates and we love the game.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
We didn't get to where we are and continue to keep playing because of the fans, we do so because we love our teammates and we love the game.

You are for sure wrong here. Here are a few things you could not do without the fans, boosters etc.... that would of kept you form playing

Traveling(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue)
Equipment(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue)
venue(whether it be a open lot of field its still ((provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue))
Scholorships- I understand not all get these but some do(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue) edit....sorry should of proofed this, this is more of a gift from the University but has a direct impact of the finances of the University which is supported by......you guessed it....student/fans

Surely you catching my drift

Whether you like it or not, fans have a direct impact of you living your dream. The plain simple truth is....the fans like this....this is what keeps us passionate, supportive, critical (we all need this to keep us grounded). I think it would be fair to say that most athletes prefer this relation ship also that why you see interviews, players trying to get the crowd in the game, players trying to shush the crowd.

As I said before you are speaking of an entire athlete group but the simple truth is you are isolating yourself, probably not because of malice, but because you are as passionate as the passionate fans out there.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Once again, I think you're missing the point completely. I don't think that it's the place of anyone to criticize anyone for working hard, dreaming big, and living that dream. This is a principle that transcends football but that should be applied to everyday life.

Again, with all due respect, BBDE, I think you are missing the point.


You have to understand that football is a game where the only people who are directly affected by the outcome are the people who are putting in the work, not the people who are sitting in the stands or the ones who are at home watching it on TV.

Interesting that this is coming from an Aggie. I think you are severely underestimating how important this is to many.


They will never appreciate or understand what it takes to play at the level that we do. They will never take a loss as hard as we do. They will never taste the success that we do. And they will do what they do best, and all they can do, which is talk about it.

Did you ever stop to think that some of the folks giving their opinion have actually played? You are not the only one that has played college football.

Given that logic, none of us could critique Tony Romo.



Playing football isn't like being a government official or an an employee for a company where the mistakes of an individual can directly influence or affect other people in a negative way.

100% false. AGain, you need some more perspective, grasshopper. I'm not trying to be condescending.


People pay to watch football because it's a leisure activity for them, it's not something that is life or death for them. When we get hurt, they don't get hurt. When we lose, they don't lose. When we win, they don't win. Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind.

Again, I find this quite interesting coming from an Aggie. There may be no other fanbase in the nation that lives and dies more with their team.



And for the record, I never said that Jerrod worked harder than any other player for any other team, only that he works hard and has for longer than he has been alive to get to where he is today. There isn't a fan base anywhere in the country that has the right to have anything negative to say about any player who makes a mistake on the football field. Like I said, it's not their hard work, their sacrifice, or their health that they're investing into the game.

You do understand the difference in someone critiquing his play and someone critiquing the person. No one is trying to slam JJ personally. I've read quite a bit on him and he seems to be a great kid and you should be proud to have him as a fellow aggie. That doesn't change the fact that he is a turnover MACHINE!


There isn't a single fan who should feel like their opinion should matter.

So fans have NO RIGHT to care about their team? This is a very strange statement. You do realize that if this were true, your stadium would be empty and there would be no such thing as scholarships?


I didn't start working my ass off all of those years ago for the people who pay to watch our games, and neither did any other player on that team or any other team for any other sport. We did it because we love the game and wanted to be successful at it.

Great! I still think you're misguided here.



Like I said, there is probably 1000% more football played by us and prepared for by us when nobody is watching than when there is. We don't play for the fans and we would play with or without them. Spectators pay to watch us play because they want to, not because we need them to.

I don't doubt that you and some of your buddies might get out in the field and throw it around like the Brett Favre commerical, but you seem to not understand the relationship between the people that pay to watch this and the infrastructure behind allowing you to do what you do.


That is another cold hard fact that fans don't want to accept. Like I've said over and over again, fans and what they think they contribute never have and never will be the driving force behind the investment and sacrifice that players make. Common sense would should tell you that, and if you don't believe me go ask a Pop Warner player if he plays football because he loves the game, and if he wants to play college football because of all of the money that the university will make off of his hard work.

I think I've figured out where you're coming from; You are projecting some frustrations you have onto others. I agree with you that there is a huge money making system that earns off the sweat of 'amature' athletes. There certainly is some injustice there, but again, you seem to be projecting some frustration you have onto 'the fans'.


There isn't a single college athlete who expects or demands contributions from anyone; fans provide money to satisfy their own desire to see us play.

Again, you seem to forget that if no one comes to watch you play, you have no game to play in....as much as you may hate it, you need the fans.



With that, of course they think they're going to be experts and it's okay to ridicule and criticize. I have a news flash for you and anyone else who has ever paid admission for a football game: No amount of money that you pay can compare to the cost of the effort, risk, and sacrifice that we give. You paid $100 for a ticket? Well, I paid with a lifelong back injury that I'm reminded of constantly every day and I'm not the only player who has or will. And that's on top of all of the work that I put into it over the course of 10+ years. But I guess that fans will always pay more than we do as players.

My feelings about your posts have gone from mildly irritated and associating this with your youth, to downright frustrated with your sanctimonious attitude.

No one put a gun to your head to play a violent sport.

[RoyceTTU]

Wow Mac, you put way more effort that I. Well laid out, i'm impressed.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
WOW, We all can tell you are upset and you've made very good points. The truth is you put way too much emotion into your statements and have isolated yourself, the coaching staff, and the entire A&M football team past and future.

The simple truth is there are many people out there that support you and your college as well as the football team. Whether you understand it or not, every single person that puts forth any effort towards an organzation, university, team etc....in any way whether it be from playing, ticket sales, donations etc....takes away benefits in their own way. To think none have an effect on each other is way off key.

I am completely going out on a limb here, but I would be willing to bet if you printed your statements out and let your coaches, families and friends read these, they would question your motives.


No one here doubts anything you are saying, but you are trying to force demands that you have no right to. I hope you take a step back and read through your post as an objective reader with a clear and open mind.

And what exactly do you think my motives are? All I've done is provided the truth to people and asked for them to respect the efforts and hard work that someone else puts out. We don't do it for the entertainment of the people in the stands, we do it because we love the game. That's not me saying that all fans are bad and we don't appreciate support or contributions, but it's not what makes us go out and play the game. And no matter how much money someone puts toward our program, it is nothing in comparison to what we individually sacrifice and invest day in and day out. Of course, people will want to take what I say and become defensive because deep down they don't want to accept that their support, criticism, or monetary donations aren't what we play so hard for and sacrifice so much for. We don't play for the fans, we play for our personal love of the game and for our teammates who are there everyday working with us to achieve greatness.

I'm not ungrateful for having people wanting to contribute or support me or anyone else who does what a college athlete does, but just because someone gives to a program doesn't mean that they have earned the right to criticize and disrespect the people who have invested more than a fan or booster ever will. My whole point of all of this was to show that every player deserves respect no matter how they perform, and no amount of money or time spent watching us will ever give any outside the right to criticize or belittle our accomplishments. The truth is that there are very few fans who ever realize or appreciate the kind of sacrifices that we make. And any player, past, present, and future for any team will tell you that the sacrifices we made were for our teammates and for our own love of the game.

[RoyceTTU]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
And what exactly do you think my motives are?

I believe your motives are simply to protect and support your teammate.

I do think the direction you are taken is completely off base and insensitive to everyone, with the exception of your teamates and coaching staff. Again, you have isolated a minority group when actual reality you would of never played football without the support of fans, and the fans wouldn't make it possible without having players like yourself and teamates.

I'll rephrase my statement because thats not completely accurate. You would of never been given the opportunity to play football at the level you have without the support of fans. I guess in actual reality you can go out and play out in the backyard but I'm sure thats not what you are refering to when you speak of blood, sweat ect....


I respect you decision and will agree to disagree on this one.




I will say that I'm glad I have never heard someone from TTU talk about fans the way you are. I would be disheartened and disappointed. And I beleive that TTU players and 99% of the players that play NCAA sports actually care about sportsmanship and the support of their supporters.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Emerson1
"Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind. "

Ranger Mom, didn't you fall in the stands one season?



Yes....and I have the scar across the bridge of my nose to prove it!

My first football injury, I'm kinda proud of it!!:D


This whole thread is making my head hurt!!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Macarthur
Again, with all due respect, BBDE, I think you are missing the point.



Interesting that this is coming from an Aggie. I think you are severely underestimating how important this is to many.



Did you ever stop to think that some of the folks giving their opinion have actually played? You are not the only one that has played college football.

Given that logic, none of us could critique Tony Romo.




100% false. AGain, you need some more perspective, grasshopper. I'm not trying to be condescending.



Again, I find this quite interesting coming from an Aggie. There may be no other fanbase in the nation that lives and dies more with their team.




You do understand the difference in someone critiquing his play and someone critiquing the person. No one is trying to slam JJ personally. I've read quite a bit on him and he seems to be a great kid and you should be proud to have him as a fellow aggie. That doesn't change the fact that he is a turnover MACHINE!



So fans have NO RIGHT to care about their team? This is a very strange statement. You do realize that if this were true, your stadium would be empty and there would be no such thing as scholarships?



Great! I still think you're misguided here.




I don't doubt that you and some of your buddies might get out in the field and throw it around like the Brett Favre commerical, but you seem to not understand the relationship between the people that pay to watch this and the infrastructure behind allowing you to do what you do.



I think I've figured out where you're coming from; You are projecting some frustrations you have onto others. I agree with you that there is a huge money making system that earns off the sweat of 'amature' athletes. There certainly is some injustice there, but again, you seem to be projecting some frustration you have onto 'the fans'.



Again, you seem to forget that if no one comes to watch you play, you have no game to play in....as much as you may hate it, you need the fans.




My feelings about your posts have gone from mildly irritated and associating this with your youth, to downright frustrated with your sanctimonious attitude.

No one put a gun to your head to play a violent sport.

And nobody put a gun to your head and made you or anybody else pay to watch us play.

I think you're missing the point. People pay to come watch us play football on their own free will because they are pursuing their own personal entertainment.

Tony Romo is a professional athlete who people pay to go watch play. Unlike Tony Romo, college players don't directly receive the money from these people watching the game; instead, the revenue goes towards furthering the education of the rest of the student body. Apparently your logic directly contradicts what is tangible and real. That's called fallacy.

I never said that we didn't need fans, I said that fans aren't the reason that we do what we do and we play the game without them. Our motives for playing and embracing the risk and the sacrifice that is associated with playing football have nothing to do with the fans.

Being a government official or an employee who makes a mistake that directly affects others is nothing like Jerrod throwing an interception or Texas A&M losing a football game. I don't care how much money or support anybody gives, unless you're out there and giving everything that it takes to do what we do, then you can never say "We lost" because it wasn't your hard work and sacrifice that was put into it. The only reason that you or any other fan would feel like they're directly effected by a victory or a defeat are the ones who have this undeserving and completely exaggerated feeling of empowerment when the reality is the exact opposite.

Jerrod is a great person and a great player, but apparently you are avoiding all of the terrible things that people are saying about him. There have been a lot of people who have slammed Jerrod, maybe not you in particular, but it isn't hard to find some if you need proof.

And once again, I guess I have to reiterate, I'm not saying that I don't appreciate the loyal fans who support us. This is completely about the people who say they're fans, but disrespect and chastise the people who are out on the field. The truth of it is that every player at the collegiate level got there because of their own individual hard work, not because of anyone else. No amount of support or criticism would drive us to do what we do, to sacrifice what we do, and to risk what we do. It's not about the fans, it's about ourselves and our teammates. That's not me saying that I don't love our fans or am ungrateful in any way to the people who donate to our program or who stand and yell for us the entire game. The truth is the truth, and when you're on a team, the only people who's opinions matter are the ones who are right there with you in the locker room every day. The fans support and donations will never compare to the individual sacrifices that any player makes every single day; and these are the same sacrifices that we made long before we went to any particular university, because the truth of it is there wouldn't be anybody who got to that level without putting in the effort long before they came into contact with the fans of any university.

You may be right, we may not be able to play without the fans, but without us, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. It should be painfully obvious that it's a lot easier to be a fan than it is to be a player because look how few of us there are and look at how many of you there are.

Like I said, I'm thankful for the fans who support us, but no matter what they contribute or how long they've supported us, it is never acceptable to direct negativity towards us for making a few mistakes while trying to win a football game.

[Pick6]

Why do players wave their arms trying to get the crowd pumped up? The football team wants the crowd as much as the crowd wants the football team.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
I believe your motives are simply to protect and support your teammate.

I do think the direction you are taken is completely off base and insensitive to everyone, with the exception of your teamates and coaching staff. Again, you have isolated a minority group when actual reality you would of never played football without the support of fans, and the fans wouldn't make it possible without having players like yourself and teamates.

I'll rephrase my statement because thats not completely accurate. You would of never been given the opportunity to play football at the level you have without the support of fans. I guess in actual reality you can go out and play out in the backyard but I'm sure thats not what you are refering to when you speak of blood, sweat ect....


I respect you decision and will agree to disagree on this one.




I will say that I'm glad I have never heard someone from TTU talk about fans the way you are. I would be disheartened and disappointed. And I beleive that TTU players and 99% of the players that play NCAA sports actually care about sportsmanship and the support of their supporters.


Well, I think that people like you are too presumptuous in what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that I'm not thankful the fans and supporters. If that were the case, I wouldn't go out of my way to try to set a good example for their children or to acknowledge them or thank them for their support. But you, like most people, are taking what I say out of context and trying to talk your way around the truth of the situation and that is we play football because we love the game, not because there are people who want to see us play. Your entertainment and support isn't worth our risk and sacrifice. That's the truth that fans don't want to hear. You want to hear how important you are. And fans are important to us, but no matter what they have no right to disrespect or criticize us because we're the ones who are doing and you're the ones who are in the stands watching. Nobody likes a backseat driver.

And I would go as far as to say that I would rather have 10 loyal fans who give nothing support us no matter what, than to have 1,000 fans who donate and feel entitled to tear down our hard work and effort. And I will also say that this isn't really a problem for the vast majority of Aggie fans; I really do feel like we have the greatest fan base in all of college football. But the fact remains the same that no matter how supportive they are, they will never feel the sting of defeat or the sweet taste of success like we do. They can shrug off a loss and take a victory for granted because in the scope of things, their supports and contributions will never be comparable to the ones that we as players make. And no matter how much support or donation someone gives, it's never right to undermine the accomplishments or take for granted the work that we put in. I don't think that it's wrong of me to say that you can't put a price on the health and life of a person and that money and words will never compare to the sacrifice that we make. I didn't realize that everyone would accuse me of being ungrateful, or I would have given the fans who support us and donate to us more credit, but it's not my fault that you all automatically assumed that I take any of that for granted and shaped my words to mean something completely different in your own eyes.

I guess you and everybody else missed the whole point of everything that I've said, so maybe this condensed version will help:

Players like Jerrod got to where he is today because he worked hard, sacrificed, and succeeded. While fans are important and their support and contributions are greatly accepted and appreciated, it is never appropriate for them to criticize the hard work and effort of someone else. In the scope of things, fans sacrifice very little, while players sacrifice their time, their effort, and their health, and no matter what fans should always realize that and appreciate it, win or lose.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Pick6
Why do players wave their arms trying to get the crowd pumped up? The football team wants the crowd as much as the crowd wants the football team.

Yeah, but the crowd isn't the reason we play football and got to where we are. We were working and putting forward the necessary effort long before that crowd was there watching us play. And we invest more into the game than any fan or spectator ever could. It's great to have the support of a positive fan base, but it's the work that we put in while none of those fans are around that is the direct reason for any success and failure we have.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by RoyceTTU
You are for sure wrong here. Here are a few things you could not do without the fans, boosters etc.... that would of kept you form playing

Traveling(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue)
Equipment(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue)
venue(whether it be a open lot of field its still ((provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue))
Scholorships- I understand not all get these but some do(provided mostly by ticket sales and TV revenue) edit....sorry should of proofed this, this is more of a gift from the University but has a direct impact of the finances of the University which is supported by......you guessed it....student/fans

Surely you catching my drift

Whether you like it or not, fans have a direct impact of you living your dream. The plain simple truth is....the fans like this....this is what keeps us passionate, supportive, critical (we all need this to keep us grounded). I think it would be fair to say that most athletes prefer this relation ship also that why you see interviews, players trying to get the crowd in the game, players trying to shush the crowd.

As I said before you are speaking of an entire athlete group but the simple truth is you are isolating yourself, probably not because of malice, but because you are as passionate as the passionate fans out there.


And if fans didn't exist, there wouldn't be a such thing as college football. But that wouldn't mean that I wouldn't love the game anymore or find a way to keep playing it. Like I said, we would play with or without fan contributions, because it's not about the lights and the full stadiums, it's about loving what we do. You describe football in terms of monetary value, but that's not how it works for a player. I know I said that we don't need fans to pay for us, and I honestly don't believe that we would need them to continue doing what we do. We genuinely love the game and our teammates, it's not about the people on the outside looking in. And it's that love that drove us to the level of athletic excellence that fans pay to come see every week. I don't know how to put that any more simple than I have, but I think it would help if instead of reading what I say and getting defensive, you would see the true point and purpose of what I'm trying to say.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, but the crowd isn't the reason we play football and got to where we are. We were working and putting forward the necessary effort long before that crowd was there watching us play. And we invest more into the game than any fan or spectator ever could. It's great to have the support of a positive fan base, but it's the work that we put in while none of those fans are around that is the direct reason for any success and failure we have. I promise you some of that crowd was there before you were born and they are still there now that you are gone. Do they have the right to say what they want?? Sure...but they need to keep things in perspective...football is a game played by young men who have not fully developed mentally and what they hear fans say can scar them for life.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I promise you some of that crowd was there before you were born and they are still there now that you are gone. Do they have the right to say what they want?? Sure...but they need to keep things in perspective...football is a game played by young men who have not fully developed mentally and what they hear fans say can scar them for life.

No, they don't, because it's our hard work that wins or loses football games, not how much a booster donates or how many games they've watched in support. And it's not their health they risk or the time they invest in preparation for a game. Support is always appreciated, but it never entitles anyone to say whatever they want about a team or a player. There is no excuse or right to disrespect any of us, because we're the ones who lay it all on the line and are ultimately the ones who win, lose, and dedicate every single day to the team. I don't see how anyone could possibly say or consider anything but that because it's the undeniable and undebatable truth.

[OldBison75]

My only contribution to this thread is to say that it is easy to be critical of a player that makes bad decisions or dosen't perform up to expectations. Walk a mile in his shoes and see if you think you can perform better. However, when you give your loyalty to a player, team, or university, the failure of that person or team or university to perform up to expectation is open for criticism.

JJ has all of the tools to be a great college player and has shown that at times he can perform on that level. He has also shown that he has lapses in that performance level, whether from his own mistakes or as the result of the ability or effort of the other athletes on the field.

BBDE, I did not have to play College Football to realize that a temendous amount of dedication and effort goes into reaching the college level as a player. I also realize that the college football programs do not exist without a loyal and dedicated fan base that supports the team financially and otherwise. No television contracts go to the teams that can't have a large fan base and draw viewers.

Do I think JJ could perform better than he has the last two games, hell yes. I have seen him play better. Do I think it is all his fault, hell no. I have also seen tipped passes and defensive pressure that have contributed to his woes. But, as the QB, whether it is right or wrong, he is at the center of every offensive snap and has to take a little criticism when things go bad. Just like the coach that dosen't play a single down during a game, but if the team dosen't live up to expectations of the fans and university, he gets replaced.

In JJ's case, I think it is too early to make a change, mainly because I believe he will be a major factor in way more wins than losses. However, I don't think the world would end at TAMU if the coaching staff decided to let Tannehill take some snaps and see how the team responds.

[Emerson1]

"lay it all on the line"

Hardly. We're talking about football. No sports player lays it all on the line playing a game.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Emerson1
"Being a spectator only costs you the time that you spend watching and the price of the ticket at the gate. As soon as a fan suffers an injury by supporting a team is the second that I change my mind. "

Ranger Mom, didn't you fall in the stands one season?


"While my classmates in high school were staying up late and partying, "
That's a burn on old tiger. Actually I never really partied in HS until football season was over my senior year then I started to enjoy life.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I know that fans make it possible, but it's our love for the game, hard work, and dedication that makes any of it possible. We got to where we are because of our own efforts. I never said that the stage we play on isn't made possible by loyal fans just like you. But ultimately we're the ones who win or lose, not the fans. And I'm the one who will live the rest of my life with the injury I received from playing football, not the fans. I appreciate every single one, but they will never feel my pain or know my sacrifice, so they have no business hiding behind their support and contributions to excuse taking our hard work and sacrifice for granted. They can never pay enough money or yell loud enough or watch enough games to have that right.


Originally posted by OldBison75
My only contribution to this thread is to say that it is easy to be critical of a player that makes bad decisions or dosen't perform up to expectations. Walk a mile in his shoes and see if you think you can perform better. However, when you give your loyalty to a player, team, or university, the failure of that person or team or university to perform up to expectation is open for criticism.

JJ has all of the tools to be a great college player and has shown that at times he can perform on that level. He has also shown that he has lapses in that performance level, whether from his own mistakes or as the result of the ability or effort of the other athletes on the field.

BBDE, I did not have to play College Football to realize that a temendous amount of dedication and effort goes into reaching the college level as a player. I also realize that the college football programs do not exist without a loyal and dedicated fan base that supports the team financially and otherwise. No television contracts go to the teams that can't have a large fan base and draw viewers.

Do I think JJ could perform better than he has the last two games, hell yes. I have seen him play better. Do I think it is all his fault, hell no. I have also seen tipped passes and defensive pressure that have contributed to his woes. But, as the QB, whether it is right or wrong, he is at the center of every offensive snap and has to take a little criticism when things go bad. Just like the coach that dosen't play a single down during a game, but if the team dosen't live up to expectations of the fans and university, he gets replaced.

In JJ's case, I think it is too early to make a change, mainly because I believe he will be a major factor in way more wins than losses. However, I don't think the world would end at TAMU if the coaching staff decided to let Tannehill take some snaps and see how the team responds.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Emerson1
"lay it all on the line"

Hardly. We're talking about football. No sports player lays it all on the line playing a game.

Says the guy who never played. Tell that to the players who have died playing football. Or the players who will live with debilitating injuries for the rest of their life. Don't tell me that we don't lay it all on the line and risk everything.

[navscanmaster]

BBDE, I get where you are coming from. But you are fighting a losing battle. If I say I think Tanny deserves a chance if JJ continues to struggle, it is because that is my opinion. Albeit an outsider's opinion, but still my opinion. There is nothing you can say and no level of chastising you can shoot my way to make me change my mind about that. Does my opinion matter to the success of a player or team anywhere? Hell no. It is just an opinion. Mike Sherman isn't perusing TexAgs.com or 3ADownlow.com looking for expert opinions on how to run his ship. Men and women of the adult age required to play college sports are mature enough to know that they will get criticized no matter what they do, and that they will get undying support no matter what they do, depending on the opinion-holder. You can't expect people on a football message board to sit here and talk about nothing. Can you imagine what a thread without fan opinion would look like on here? Boring as hell, that is what.

That said, I still have a lot of respect for the effort and intensity you and other athletes put in to playing the game you love. I recognize it, but reserve the right to state an opinion.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Says the guy who never played. Tell that to the players who have died playing football. Or the players who will live with debilitating injuries for the rest of their life. Don't tell me that we don't lay it all on the line and risk everything.
I played enough that I could have died. I got to watch two friends taken away in an ambulance something I bet you have never experienced.

But your right, Gary Randall made the same sacrifice as a soldier in Iraq.

GOD BLESS YOU for laying it all on the line!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I never made that comparison Kyle, you did. You know nothing about respect or what it's like to be a man because you're too busy hiding behind a computer talking. You're all talk. And at the end of the day, all you will have is your own words. I hope you find them rewarding. Personally, if I were anything like you I'd be embarrassed. I have a lot to be proud of and no matter what you say to me or about me or how you try to completely twist my words to create your assertions, you and every member on this message board knows exactly what would happen if you tried to do it to my face. I have nothing to prove to you, because unlike you I'd rather go make something of myself than throw insults at someone behind the protection of the computer. I don't care if you respect me or not Kyle, you can say whatever you want about me, but you're not going to bring me down with you to your level.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

And do you really think that I believe that nobody should have any opinion or bias? That's not the whole point of everything I said. Your opinion, good or bad, is irrelevant to us as players. We play for each other and we play to win. My words weren't directed towards loyal and respectful fans like you, but the fans who don't appreciate the work and sacrifice that goes into it. I'm thankful and proud to have people like you and your dad and sister be such strong supporters of the Aggie athletics. My words weren't directed towards you, but the people who think that their "sacrifice and loyalty" as fans is what makes our success possible and gives them the right to criticize and disrespect players. Constructive criticism from a supportive, loyal, and dedicated fan is different from throwing a player under the bus for a few mistakes. The truth is, we do play for ourselves and our teammates and coaches because we love the game itself. We would play even if nobody was watching. Every one of us has worked hard and sacrificed more than anyone will ever imagine, and I don't think me asking fans to get over themselves and realize that it's our hard work, our dedication, and ultimately our skills and play on the field that determines the outcome of the game; I don't think me asking anyone to respect the players and their hard work is too much to ask. Because really, we're the ones who have the most at stake; being a fan costs nothing by comparison really and truly.



Originally posted by navscanmaster
BBDE, I get where you are coming from. But you are fighting a losing battle. If I say I think Tanny deserves a chance if JJ continues to struggle, it is because that is my opinion. Albeit an outsider's opinion, but still my opinion. There is nothing you can say and no level of chastising you can shoot my way to make me change my mind about that. Does my opinion matter to the success of a player or team anywhere? Hell no. It is just an opinion. Mike Sherman isn't perusing TexAgs.com or 3ADownlow.com looking for expert opinions on how to run his ship. Men and women of the adult age required to play college sports are mature enough to know that they will get criticized no matter what they do, and that they will get undying support no matter what they do, depending on the opinion-holder. You can't expect people on a football message board to sit here and talk about nothing. Can you imagine what a thread without fan opinion would look like on here? Boring as hell, that is what.

That said, I still have a lot of respect for the effort and intensity you and other athletes put in to playing the game you love. I recognize it, but reserve the right to state an opinion.

[Saggy Aggie]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Playing football or any other sport for any university isn't about the fans, and that includes the 12th Man that is associated with Texas A&M University because the path that led any athlete to play at the next level started long before they stepped foot onto any campus. My love for football didn't start because of the 12th Man, it started because I enjoyed playing the game and because I made the conscious decision to work hard and sacrifice in order to be successful. The same can be said for any other collegiate athlete. The fan base for any college didn't get us to where we are, our own hard work and sacrifice did. And the only people who are directly affected by the outcome of a game are the people who are actually coaching or playing. We didn't get to where we are and continue to keep playing because of the fans, we do so because we love our teammates and we love the game. Just 1 question: If you dont play for the fans, then why do they show that video before EVERY home game that shows players saying "we play for you. We play for the 12th man"? Just curious....