What style of offense is better...

[Kid Ice]

Everybody knows that in the past, 3A has been dominated by one dimensional run heavy offenses. If you wan to win in 3A, you run the ball and stop the run. While I love the run heavy offenses, the only way to be successful running them is to have superior athletes at the skill positions and on the o-line. Here is my question: If you have the superior athletes, which offense is harder to stop? The spread or the run-heavy offenses such as wishbone, slot T or any other out there. After seeing some great Brownwood teams that were one dimensional power running offenses with superior athletes and now seeing a Spread offense with superior athletes, I would say the Spread is much harder to stop, especially when you aren't use to playing against it week in and week out. I always knew that no matter what, Brownwood was going to come up against a team with a good run defense and we would be in trouble. Remember, the question is: Which is harder to stop? Not, what is your favorite type of offense. Any thoughts?

[Daddy D 11]

A Slot-T ran with superior athletes is physically a whole lot harder to stop than the spread. Even with superior talent, the spread requires precise timing between QB and WR's. You can confuse a QB with different pass coverages and slow a spread offense down. There are no coverages for a wishbone, veer or Slot-T offense really. Either you're man enough to physically stop the superior talent that's running right at you every play, or you aren't.

[Kid Ice]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
A Slot-T ran with superior athletes is physically a whole lot harder to stop than the spread. Even with superior talent, the spread requires precise timing between QB and WR's. You can confuse a QB with different pass coverages and slow a spread offense down. There are no coverages for a wishbone, veer or Slot-T offense really. Either you're man enough to physically stop the superior talent that's running right at you every play, or you aren't.

I would say I agree with that to a point. What LH did in 06-08 was truly special. I guess my point is when you have the QB with the WR's and the timing in place and they are scoring quickly and putting you in 21-0 hole in the first quarter because they can stop the run, what can you do? The run heavy offense can put points up quick but the main thing it is trying to accomplish is hold the ball, wear the defense down and milk the clock. A good spread attack takes this away.

[CenTexSports]

The key is the defense you are going up against. It used to be the wishbone and now it is the slot-t and the spread. An ex-coach and I were talking this weekend and we both believe that the next wave will be a return of the veer or the wishbone.

It is all about cycles and developing the defense to stop any particular offense.

If you have speed, run the spread. If you have power, run the slot-t. You can run the slot-t also with precision, so I guess I would say the slot-t is harder to stop.

[Old Tiger]

I like the veer. If ran properly it is unstoppable.

[Tin Cup]

I like the spread. But at the end of a game, there is nothing better than having your o-line and run game ice it. If you can't run and pass, you are very vulnerable against a D that can stop your 1 dimension

[Rocket]

A 1 Dimension Run Offense will sooner or later get beat by a team that can stop the run. It is ALWAYS harder to stop a proficient pass and run than only the proficient run... ALWAYS.

That is why I am very confident about this Brownwood team...Brownwood does both....VERY WELL.

And then there is the Brownwood defense...:)

[GrTigers6]

Any team that is one dimensional is easy to stop, eventually. If all you do is run then the defense stacks the box and make it dificult. Now you have to have a talented defense to do it but can be done.
On the other hand when you have a predominetly run offense that all of a sudden starts passing on you then that makes it harder so yes a good mix is the best no matter the formation.

[GrTigers6]

Of course after saying that I do have to say that I really enjoyed watching the Goldthwaite Eagles running up and down the field in the 80's and 90's:)

[BILLYFRED0000]

I personally like a good power team that has a qb that can throw accurately and read fast. Celina this year is running that kind of offense. 65 percent run 35 percent pass. Try to crowd the box and they go over. Drop back and let the 5 to 7 yard run play kill you till they break a big one. Always much harder to stop a true power team that can throw.

[Matthew328]

There's been several ground oriented teams win state titles in the 2000s...the common thread is those teams were great at running the ball but all could throw when they needed to

[Rocket]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I personally like a good power team that has a qb that can throw accurately and read fast. Celina this year is running that kind of offense. 65 percent run 35 percent pass. Try to crowd the box and they go over. Drop back and let the 5 to 7 yard run play kill you till they break a big one. Always much harder to stop a true power team that can throw.

How about a power spread team with 3 deadly RB's and 4 deadly WR's and a QB that can deal the ball at ease....

I am sure celina has a good offense...

[Rocket]

Originally posted by Matthew328
There's been several ground oriented teams win state titles in the 2000s...the common thread is those teams were great at running the ball but all could throw when they needed to

My argument is that one dimensional Slot T mess is slowly slipping away....just like it did in 4A...What happened to Waco High in 2006? They had a monstrous running game...

[BEAST]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I personally like a good power team that has a qb that can throw accurately and read fast. Celina this year is running that kind of offense. 65 percent run 35 percent pass. Try to crowd the box and they go over. Drop back and let the 5 to 7 yard run play kill you till they break a big one. Always much harder to stop a true power team that can throw.

This where I think people misunderstand the spread. You can be a power running team out of the spread formation. Trust me, when Brownwood has Longoria and Ratliff in the back field, that is powerful. The spread is nothing more than a formation. You can be straight up nasty out of it or you can be finess out of it. The really great ones can do both.




BEAST

[Rocket]

Originally posted by BEAST
This where I think people misunderstand the spread. You can be a power running team out of the spread formation. Trust me, when Brownwood has Longoria and Ratliff in the back field, that is powerful. The spread is nothing more than a formation. You can be straight up nasty out of it or you can be finess out of it. The really great ones can do both.




BEAST


Brownwood is nasty, mean, and powerful out of it and then they get all fancy and finesse-like.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Rocket
Brownwood is nasty, mean, and powerful out of it and then they get all fancy and finesse-like.

Lol. Dude, when I read that, the voice of Eddie Murphy popped in my head.




BEAST

[Rocket]

Originally posted by BEAST
Lol. Dude, when I read that, the voice of Eddie Murphy popped in my head.




BEAST http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/56500/Eddie-Murphy--56867.jpg

[Kid Ice]

I would still say stopping a high octane spread attack that is run right is harder than stopping a power running game. Too many things can go wrong with the power running game. One holding call can end a drive. Ball control doesn't work if you get down early, etc. With a balanced spread attack run correctly, you are never out of a game. If you get a holding call you can still pick up a first down with a long passing play. You put pressure on the other offense to score points instead of going on long drives that milk the clock. AND the slot T and wishbone have been around so long, they are easier to stop. A good spread attack has ALWAYS scared me more than a power running game. ALWAYS.

[OldBison75]

Every offense depends on the personnel that are executing the plays. I have watched football at every level for over 45 years and have seen wishbones, veers, slots, single wings and pro sets and spreads that could all put up 50 or more points per game. In every offense, the key is having the personnel at key positions that can execute the plays. For instance, in the wishbone and veer, if the QB can't make quick reads, the offense will not be effective.

In my opinion, the best offense has to be one that is flexible and can power up with a lead blocker at times, spread it out at times, or close it up at times.

One thing that makes the spread, when run with the right athletes, so hard to stop is that it can be a very effective running attack because the defense is spread over the field and there are more running lanes. When it is heavily weighted to the pass, it becomes less effective.

I think that high school football is more geared to a strong run game and effective passing game in most cases. Occasionally there is a pure spread team that has the horses to be one dimensional one way or the other and still be successful.

What I will say is that a good running attack out of any formation will win more games than any passing game over a full season. If the production of the passing game and running game can remain in the 60-40% range either way in production, you can be dominate at this level.

[the genious]

stopping both of these is all technique if everybody stays to thier assignment they can b stoped you take a team in the I formation and get 3-5 yards a play thats unstoppable it all boils down to the o-line if the o-line moves the line of scrimage that team will win no matter what formation is being run

[orange machine]

Originally posted by Rocket
Brownwood is nasty, mean, and powerful out of it and then they get all fancy and finesse-like.
Do you ever stop bragging?Also do you think you could go without talking about the Brownwood football team in one thread? We could have a thread talking about taking a dump and you would bring Brownwood football and how great they are into the conversation my gosh.

[buckeyebob]

The 2009 Buckeyes were a text book example of what can be done with a well executed spread and a good defense. While some a controlling the ball and pounding away, they wake up and discover they are behind 21 in the first quarter. There is no woulda, coulda, shoulda involved...pass, run, pass, run, etc....782 points to 277...15-0...Navasota & Cuero did a good job of trying

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Rocket
My argument is that one dimensional Slot T mess is slowly slipping away....just like it did in 4A...What happened to Waco High in 2006? They had a monstrous running game...


I think more teams are running the Slot T now than they were in 2005. With LH winning their two titles, more teams are copying it.

[LH_Tuff]

Originally posted by Rocket
My argument is that one dimensional Slot T mess is slowly slipping away....just like it did in 4A...What happened to Waco High in 2006? They had a monstrous running game...

The Slot-T is only one dimensional in that running the ball is probable. The problem for defenses is who has the ball. Deception is the key. And when a defense puts 10 in the box to stop it, the qb rolls out and usually has a wide open rb to throw to. Nothing one dimensional about it.

It all depends on talent as has been mentioned. In a run oriented offense, the o-line is the key.

[Lucky2Coach]

Originally posted by CenTexSports
The key is the defense you are going up against. It used to be the wishbone and now it is the slot-t and the spread. An ex-coach and I were talking this weekend and we both believe that the next wave will be a return of the veer or the wishbone.

It is all about cycles and developing the defense to stop any particular offense.

If you have speed, run the spread. If you have power, run the slot-t. You can run the slot-t also with precision, so I guess I would say the slot-t is harder to stop.

The next wave is here... the lastest thing going is running midline, inside/outside veer out of the gun in 4-wide or two-back gun formations. This also allows you to threaten with throwing the ball to multiple receivers. Best of both worlds, and when it is done well...very hard to stop!

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by orange machine
Do you ever stop bragging?Also do you think you could go without talking about the Brownwood football team in one thread? We could have a thread talking about taking a dump and you would bring Brownwood football and how great they are into the conversation my gosh.

Wow you have some issues.

[oldtownag]

Carthage runs pro-set offense. The 2008 & 2009 teams could line up and run it straight at anyone. They did however use elements of the spread in the pass attack. Very balanced = very dangerous.

P.S. The 2010 squad struggles are related to run game. The run game was not working in either of the 2 losses.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by LH_Tuff
The Slot-T is only one dimensional in that running the ball is probable. The problem for defenses is who has the ball. Deception is the key. And when a defense puts 10 in the box to stop it, the qb rolls out and usually has a wide open rb to throw to. Nothing one dimensional about it.

It all depends on talent as has been mentioned. In a run oriented offense, the o-line is the key. Ther is a team here that is actually passing out of the Slot T. They are still mainly run oriented, but will pass if you are stacking up the box.

[Ernest T Bass]

The best style of offense is one that is balanced and varried. Watch any NFL team, and you will see a wide varriety of formations and usually balanced play calling. As the season progresses, coaches discover what they're good at and you'll start to see more of that. But any one-dimensional offense, or any offense that isn't flexable is doomed for eventual failure, in my opinion.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by orange machine
Do you ever stop bragging?Also do you think you could go without talking about the Brownwood football team in one thread? We could have a thread talking about taking a dump and you would bring Brownwood football and how great they are into the conversation my gosh. Oh my how the tide has turned!!! LOL


Originally posted by pancho villa
Wow you have some issues.

He used to be the same way! He would come into the chat room and it was ALL Celina, ALL the time!

[Send_the_House]

The best offense is to Punt on first down and play Defense...

Offense is overrated.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by LH_Tuff
The Slot-T is only one dimensional in that running the ball is probable. The problem for defenses is who has the ball. Deception is the key. And when a defense puts 10 in the box to stop it, the qb rolls out and usually has a wide open rb to throw to. Nothing one dimensional about it.

It all depends on talent as has been mentioned. In a run oriented offense, the o-line is the key.


what happens when the defense knows your reads? Follow the fullback..

LOL

How many times does your "balanced" offense throw the ball a game?

[Cowboy_Up]

I'm not a fan of any scheme that is one dimensional. Yes, if you have exceptional athletes you may make it work but you almost always run into a team that has athletes as well.

I know hardly anyone runs it, but count me in as a fan of being under center with a FB, RB, TE, and two WRs. Establish the run, play action, and use the TE in the passing game. Be able to go to the shotgun as needed and pull the FB for another wide out if needed. But base formation under center and try and keep the ratio about 60-40 run pass until game dictates otherwise.
Too many designer offenses that become fads, IMO.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Rocket
what happens when the defense knows your reads? Follow the fullback..

LOL LOL, did you really just say follow FB?:doh: :rolleyes:

[Rocket]

Originally posted by buckeyebob
The 2009 Buckeyes were a text book example of what can be done with a well executed spread and a good defense. While some a controlling the ball and pounding away, they wake up and discover they are behind 21 in the first quarter. There is no woulda, coulda, shoulda involved...pass, run, pass, run, etc....782 points to 277...15-0...Navasota & Cuero did a good job of trying

Agreed, it is a formula for success and a state championship.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by LE Dad
LOL, did you really just say follow FB?:doh: :rolleyes: Yes he did:rolleyes: Brainiack.!! Needs to stick to being a NERD or needs to comments on the drummajors steps and arm movements:clap:

[Rocket]

Originally posted by pancho villa
Wow you have some issues.

He has some major issues..it is very sad.

[LH_Tuff]

Originally posted by Rocket
what happens when the defense knows your reads? Follow the fullback..

LOL

How many times does your "balanced" offense throw the ball a game?

Just keep following that FB. Oh yeah...Follow the guard while you are at it. Heard it all.

Oh, they throw as many times as they need to. ;)

[Txbroadcaster]

Follow that Guard and you will be saying oh crap..hence the crappy guard read :D

[Rocket]

Originally posted by LH_Tuff
Just keep following that FB. Oh yeah...Follow the guard while you are at it. Heard it all.

Oh, they throw as many times as they need to. ;)

I wish we played y'all again this year. we really need to get the underclassmen some more reps...

Oh how about this read....blow your line up. I love that read.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Rocket
Oh how about this read....blow your line up. I love that read.

That IS the best way to defend it, if you have the personel to do it. Stalemate the OL and penetrate.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Rocket
How about a power spread team with 3 deadly RB's and 4 deadly WR's and a QB that can deal the ball at ease....

I am sure celina has a good offense... So you're saying bwood is full of ninjas?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
That IS the best way to defend it, if you have the personel to do it. Stalemate the OL and penetrate.

Exactly..

[Rocket]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
So you're saying bwood is full of ninjas?

haha yeah...but I am not exaggerating...

[Old Tiger]

Has there ever been an offense that incorporated the slot t, 4 wide spread formations, and power I formations?

[Rocket]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Has there ever been an offense that incorporated the slot t, 4 wide spread formations, and power I formations?

I have seen power I and Spread with 4WRs....I think to run the Slot T well it has to be all or nothing. You run the offense and run misdirection and set up the defense. You can't really run it right if you are hopping in and out of it.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by Rocket
I have seen power I and Spread with 4WRs....I think to run the Slot T well it has to be all or nothing. You run the offense and run misdirection and set up the defense. You can't really run it right if you are hopping in and out of it. True....but that would be sick if you could run it all effectively...virutally unstoppable.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
True....but that would be sick if you could run it all effectively...virutally unstoppable.

Be too much..

Jack of all trades, master of none....

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Rocket
I have seen power I and Spread with 4WRs....I think to run the Slot T well it has to be all or nothing. You run the offense and run misdirection and set up the defense. You can't really run it right if you are hopping in and out of it. You better call Coach Kumrow at Paul Pewitt and tell him. The Brahmas run T and single back with 2-3 WRs quite well. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Dogman_1969]

I think that in the next 10 years someone in 3A will go back to the true Veer offense and will make a deep run due to the pressure it puts on the defense. I look forward to the day that the veer makes it return just like the slot T did and the wishbone did before that. The veer is based off of blocking angles and footwork more than size and girth.

The spread is not something new, mostly the spread is comprised of plays from the veer and other sets. The qb is usually 3-5 yds behind the center and the base run play is the zone read veer at 3-5 yds deep with defenders tied up covering receivers.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by LE Dad
You better call Coach Kumrow at Paul Pewitt and tell him. The Brahmas run T and single back with 2-3 WRs quite well. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: As long as you keep it simple I think it would work great...like

10-20 slot T plays
15-20 power I plays
20-30 spread type plays



You can incorporate your slot t plays with your spread plays to get some of the same actions going.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Dogman_1969
I think that in the next 10 years someone in 3A will go back to the true Veer offense and will make a deep run due to the pressure it puts on the defense. I look forward to the day that the veer makes it return just like the slot T did and the wishbone did before that. The veer is based off of blocking angles and footwork more than size and girth.

The spread is not something new, mostly the spread is comprised of plays from the veer and other sets. The qb is usually 3-5 yds behind the center and the base run play is the zone read veer at 3-5 yds deep with defenders tied up covering receivers. You are correct sir... Very little in football is new, just variations on old tried and true formations of the past being recycled. The Spread is still advancing, but in the next 5 years you should begin to see the Veer or other such offense return.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
As long as you keep it simple I think it would work great...like

10-20 slot T plays
15-20 power I plays
20-30 spread type plays



You can incorporate your slot t plays with your spread plays to get some of the same actions going.

Those are all very different concepts. Teaching football isn't about teaching plays and assignments. It's about concepts. If you could effectively teach all of those concepts, it would be awesome. But, there are only 24 hours in a day and that's not nearly enough time.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
As long as you keep it simple I think it would work great...like

10-20 slot T plays
15-20 power I plays
20-30 spread type plays



You can incorporate your slot t plays with your spread plays to get some of the same actions going. What Pewitt does is hits you with their base O, Slot T if you shut that down they will line up in Slot and then move into a single back formation off and on and try to get a mismatch with you having bigger run stopping kids on the field.

[Ernest T Bass]

Originally posted by LE Dad
What Pewitt does is hits you with their base O Slot T if you shut that down they will line up in Slot and then move into a single back formation off and on and try to get a mismatch with you having bigger run stopping kids on the field.

All the same basic concepts and same plays. Just different formations.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Ernest T Bass
All the same basic concepts and same plays. Just different formations. Pretty much, they are just looking for mismatches, and trying to get you to loosing up your D. It is very effective.

[LH_Tuff]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Has there ever been an offense that incorporated the slot t, 4 wide spread formations, and power I formations?

China Spring does all of this. They did not show the slot t against us until they had a lead. They ran out of the I and then the spread. Mixed it up pretty well.

[LH_Tuff]

Originally posted by Rocket
I wish we played y'all again this year. we really need to get the underclassmen some more reps...

Oh how about this read....blow your line up. I love that read.

I heard Bob backed out. :thinking: ;)