Ridiculous

[runtowin]

Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over! The spread offense in HS really depends on your QB.

[navscanmaster]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

By that token, you are saying that receivers, tight ends, and passing quarterbacks should never have a chance to showcase their skills in HS if they are from a smaller school. That is bull. Colt McCoy, Jordan Shipley, Stephen McGee, Manuel Johnson....I mean, that is just a few of the guys that have made it to the NFL that came from 3A and under. If they would have run a veer or wing T at their schools, well, you can guess the rest. Can you imagine the UT record books without McCoy's name showing up now?

[mwynn05]

he's speakin in generalities a lot of you are speaking in specifics...

[runtowin]

Scouts find atheletes no matter what offense or position. See jeremy kerley hutto-tcu

[BaseballUmp]

yea thats what Kerley was was an athlete...no matter what offense they would run he was a big part of the play...and now hes a WR

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
Scouts find atheletes no matter what offense or position. See jeremy kerley hutto-tcu Kerley was a 4 star athlete who ranked #38 in the state that year and #31 as far as ATH recruits in the nation go.

[Yoe_09]

Originally posted by runtowin
Scouts find atheletes no matter what offense or position. See jeremy kerley hutto-tcu

Ah yes kerley fries. When I saw him I knew that he had great potential and well I think everyone has seen what he can do now.

As for the spread..I personally wouldn't have it any other way.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

I saw a pure rushing attack go 3 and out, 3 and out over and over, for several years. It was exasperating! I'm not a huge fan of the spread either, but I sure would have liked to have seen at least some passing all those years. A good balanced attack is best as far as I'm concerned. Teams that can do that, WILL be successful.

[bobcat4life]

the best offense is the one that wins games. It doesnt matter if you score 3 points or 60 as long as you win

[LE Dad]

I wish everyone ran the "spread".:D

[Emerson1]

Spread helps if you know you lack in talent too.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Why not just run an offense that is built around the strengths of the talent that you have on the team? Sounds simple enough to me. Plus, drawing up a defense to stop a power running team isn't hard to do if your coordinator has half of a brain. It's frustrating to watch high school teams with coaches that don't know how to adjust.

[GreenMonster]

My thoughts, the spread kind of forces you to run the spread. If you don't see it everyday in practice it is hard to stop. I agree that the best offense is the one that fits your kids the best, but in the end you coach what you know. If you know the Bone then you will run the bone and do your best to make it fit your kids. Then again, after a couple of years of running any offense especially if you can control what your jr hi's are running you start to develop kids that fit your scheme. I hate the spread, but I can see why many like to run it. They can put you in a bind in so many different ways and if the QB and the RB both can go then you are in big trouble because you can't committ enough people to stop both of them without sacrificing on your coverage which opens up a whole new can of worms. Basically, you end up damned if you do and damned if you don't. As a coach, I'd like to get a chance to work for someone like Danny Henson at Bridgeport who has been in the spread for years and really knows the ins and outs of what he wants to do and how to manipulate a defense to get the matchups he wants. Like any other offense, when executed well the spread works great. It all still goes back to the Jimmy's and the Joe's not necessarily the X's and the O's.

[Additup]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

Very simple really - everyone loves the INCOMPLETE pass. It's the most exciting play in football.
Fans, parents, board etc. can't understand the details of trapping vs logging, but if they can find the ball when it's in the air then it makes them feel like they know something.

[orange machine]

I hate watching teams that all they do is run the spread. If they line up and play real football smash you in the mouth and throw some spread in some fine I can live with that, but this tip toe dance act spead attack all game long to me is boring and wennie ball.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Spread helps if you know you lack in talent too.

Not true. Run the ball to keep the clock running and try to make it a low scoring ball control game. Do you remember Buddy Ryan punching Kevin Gilbride?

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by runtowin
but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful You need to get out and see some more high school football. To say Gilmer can't run the spread is like saying Jim Joyce made the right call last night:D I have seen some 2a schools do pretty well with it also.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by lostaussie
You need to get out and see some more high school football. To say Gilmer can't run the spread is like saying Jim Joyce made the right call last night:D I have seen some 2a schools do pretty well with it also.

I think Cayuga and Albany ran it pretty well last year also. They are both 1A.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I saw a pure rushing attack go 3 and out, 3 and out over and over, for several years. It was exasperating! I'm not a huge fan of the spread either, but I sure would have liked to have seen at least some passing all those years. A good balanced attack is best as far as I'm concerned. Teams that can do that, WILL be successful. Those years yalls team had some talent too and could have been a lot better.



Originally posted by Pick6
I think Cayuga and Albany ran it pretty well last year also. They are both 1A. It doesn't hurt that Cayuga had a big time division 1 prospect at RB either.

[runtowin]

How did Gilmer do in 07 with the "spread" vs Liberty Hill?
Yes the spread is good when you have a good run of athletes/QBs. Running the ball you can have continued success year after year. It should be about the program not one or two individuals. By the way, how many D1 players did Gilmer have on the 07 team?

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
How did Gilmer do in 07 with the "spread" vs Liberty Hill?
Yes the spread is good when you have a good run of athletes/QBs. Running the ball you can have continued success year after year. It should be about the program not one or two individuals. By the way, how many D1 players did Gilmer have on the 07 team? Poor instance to choose a spread/run dominated team....that LH team wasn't going to be beat by anyone.

[runtowin]

LH has won 85+ games over 8 years including a 38 game winning streak and two state championships. Thant was one game but I am talking about year in and year out. Run the ball!
If you don't like that example look into Celina, they have done pretty well mostly running the ball too!

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by Pick6
I think Cayuga and Albany ran it pretty well last year also. They are both 1A.

Albany runs the veer offense.

Goldthwaite won state last year running the wishbone against Canadian who runs the spread offense.
Ironically, Goldthwaite had more passing yards than Canadian and certainly more rushing yards.
I agree, run the ball and control the clock.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by STANG RED
I saw a pure rushing attack go 3 and out, 3 and out over and over, for several years. It was exasperating! Now ya gota love this statement.... 3 rounds deep in the playoffs over and over and over..... Wow! From that you think you need to fix it? Classic post! Im sure that is the mentality in Sweetwater that is part of the reason Jackson left . So going 3 rounds deep in the playoffs year in and out is exasperating...:rolleyes: I think you will yearn for those years again after a few not making it... Its winning that matters. NOT winning using the Spread or the Wishbone.

[Bearkat]

It seems like most of the people commenting on the spread offense think it is a passing offense only. Understand, the spread is used to spread out the defense. The less people the defense has "in the box" the easier it is to run. Sure, you may see some teams that line up and throw the ball on almost every down (ex. Texas Tech) but not all spread teams believe in that philosophy. The majority run the spread because they have a dual-threat athlete at the QB position.

Think of it like this: Let's compare the Veer and the Spread. (Both can be running offenses)

The typical Veer offense has 5 linemen, 1 tight end, 2 WR's, 2 RB's, and a QB. This personnel normally will line-up in a pro formation, which means 2 WR's split out and 9 people in the box. This allows the defense to put 8 or 9 in the box as well. More defenders to make a play.

The typical Spread offense has 5 linemen, 4 WR's, 1 RB, and 1 QB. This personnel will normally line-up with 4 WR's split out wide and 7 people in the box. This forces a defense to keep only 6 or 7 in the box. Less defenders in the box, less people to make a play.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by runtowin
LH has won 85+ games over 8 years including a 38 game winning streak and two state championships. Thant was one game but I am talking about year in and year out. Run the ball!
If you don't like that example look into Celina, they have done pretty well mostly running the ball too!
You don't win 85+ games and the only sole reason be the system. Celina could run 2 plays and still dominate because they have better athletes then 99% of the teams they play.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Celina could run 2 plays and still dominate because they have better athletes then 99% of the teams they play. I thought it was 100% heart? :confused:
:D

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

Cause when it works, just like a good running attack, it's fun! Duh

[wildstangs]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Now ya gota love this statement.... 3 rounds deep in the playoffs over and over and over..... Wow! From that you think you need to fix it? Classic post! Im sure that is the mentality in Sweetwater that is part of the reason Jackson left . So going 3 rounds deep in the playoffs year in and out is exasperating...:rolleyes: I think you will yearn for those years again after a few not making it... Its winning that matters. NOT winning using the Spread or the Wishbone.

Uh oh....I get scolded for saying the same thing. Duck and cover Blackie!

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Now ya gota love this statement.... 3 rounds deep in the playoffs over and over and over..... Wow! From that you think you need to fix it? Classic post! Im sure that is the mentality in Sweetwater that is part of the reason Jackson left . So going 3 rounds deep in the playoffs year in and out is exasperating...:rolleyes: I think you will yearn for those years again after a few not making it... Its winning that matters. NOT winning using the Spread or the Wishbone.

So when are you moving to Sweetwater?:D

[Bullaholic]

Let me add a "homer" opinion on the spread.....

I've been watching football for over 50 years, and the spread offense run by the Bulls have given me more excitement and pleasure as a spectator and fan the last 16 years than all of the other teams and sports put together. Bridgeport may not have any rings yet, but they will never, ever bore you in a game.

[Emerson1]

What if you run an offense like Forney. It's 99% spread shotgun, but only throw 5 passes a game? We throw the pistol in there sometimes too.

[IrishTex]

If I can just add my tiny two-cents in here...I'd appreciate it.
I know I shouldn't say this as I'm not a coach or anything of the sort, so please bear with my lay opinion.

I happen to agree with Stang Red. You can run the ball over and over and have success. But as you progress throughout the playoffs, if all you have is a running game, it doesn't take much ingenuity to stuff the box and hence, stop the run.

Again, you can be somewhat sucessful running the ball. You can be even MORE successful with a balanced attack of running and passing. It just makes sense that if you have additional weapons, your chances of scoring go up..have more scores=have more wins. Have more wins=more championships.

I hope this didn't sound too basic for the football minds on here.

:D

[Old Tiger]

In LH's playoff runs when they were winning state they could throw the ball also and a lot of their big plays for TD's came off the pass. It also never hurts when your offensive line was GOOD.

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Let me add a "homer" opinion on the spread.....

I've been watching football for over 50 years, and the spread offense run by the Bulls have given me more excitement and pleasure as a spectator and fan the last 16 years than all of the other teams and sports put together. Bridgeport may not have any rings yet, but they will never, ever bore you in a game. Thats what I'm talking about!!! It's fun to watch. And btw runtowin, in those 8 years that you won 85 games the Buckeyes won 91 in seven years. We are still rolling, seems the wheels fell off the Panthers bus. Maybe you should runtowin a little harder:thinking:

[runtowin]

Old Tiger,

you might look at that again. LH didn't throw the ball in 06 or 07 while winning those games. They didn't even punt or pass vs Hondo in the semifinals. However, you are right the line made the difference.

Lostaussie,

you never answered how many D1 players were playing against LH in 07 when the lost 38-13 to an LH squad with only one college player.

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
Old Tiger,

you might look at that again. LH didn't throw the ball in 06 or 07 while winning those games. They didn't even punt or pass vs Hondo in the semifinals. However, you are right the line made the difference.

They did make passes during those years and were not just all run.

[eagles_victory]

So annoying Gary hit the nail on the head you look at the talent you have and you find away to best use that talent. Just saying you cant win running the spread at 3a or lower is stupid. Yea LH beat Gilmer but Gilmer has two state championships. Both 3a championship teams ran the spread and could throw the ball all over the yard this year so not sure how this thread holds any water.

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by runtowin
Lostaussie,

you never answered how many D1 players were playing against LH in 07 when the lost 38-13 to an LH squad with only one college player. Hell, I don't know the number exactly but there were several. You guys beat us on that day..............I got no problem saying that. What I saw was a magnificent team in the Panthers that day. But tell me that you can't throw the ball and be sucessful doing just because you don't have enough A's in your classification. That is what is RIDICULOUS!!!! Last time I checked we had just as many rings as you guys..........it's all good.

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
They did make passes during those years and were not just all run. They didn't against us. Never threw the ball one stinkin time.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by lostaussie
They didn't against us. Never threw the ball one stinkin time.

Heck a few years ago TCU beat SMU and didn't throw a pass the entire game.

[runtowin]

The original question was why do people that influence the hiring hc/ad want to see specific offenses. Currently the spread. Why not let the right coach coach what he knows and do what's best for the kids. Don't make kids be nfl qbs. They don't need that pressure or that abuse.

[pirate4state]

Gilmer had 6 D1 athletes on that team.

I'm not sure I understand this thread anymore. Why do I feel like there is a specific school board/superintendent you are talking about? :thinking:

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Gilmer had 6 D1 athletes on that team.

I'm not sure I understand this thread anymore. Why do I feel like there is a specific school board/superintendent you are talking about? :thinking: LOUD NOISES!!!! LOUD NOISES!

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by runtowin
The original question was why do people that influence the hiring hc/ad want to see specific offenses. Currently the spread. Why not let the right coach coach what he knows and do what's best for the kids. Don't make kids be nfl qbs. They don't need that pressure or that abuse. to be honest with you, now that I understand the question, I think lots of fans in the stands including board members go to see other schools play and wonder why "their" school can't run the same offense. For myself and probably 80% of other high school fans, the spread, when run correctly is very fun to watch. You can take average kids and turn them into playmakers. On the other hand, one of the ugliest things in football is watching a spread team that is not very good at it. It takes all kinds...........one of these days there will be something new. And when that something new comes out...........there will still be coaches running the ball 95% of the time. Nothing wrong with any philosophy as long as you get the job done.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

I do not know who you watch but we have seen several effective teams over the last 4 years and they operate both the run and pass. China Springs 2007 was an excellent passing team and Daingerfield runs very well out of the spread. I guess you just have not seen that many good teams.

[runtowin]

A bad slot t can be ugly too. I think we are back on track aussie. I agree. Just running what team A runs doesn't make team B good

[BILLYFRED0000]

Personally I think the spread is much like the zone defense. IT creates a situation where you cover and disguise your weaknesses and at the same time prevent the other team from attacking defensively.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by runtowin
The original question was why do people that influence the hiring hc/ad want to see specific offenses. Currently the spread. Why not let the right coach coach what he knows and do what's best for the kids. Don't make kids be nfl qbs. They don't need that pressure or that abuse.
Some people are hard headed......:D To be honest, it doesn't matter what offense you run as long as that offense works better than your opponents' defense. Some people have preconceived notions about which offense would be best for their school because they've seen other teams that have had success with that particular offense. That's not necessarily the case. The teams that have the most success with any offense are at those schools where they learn the same system all the way from 7th grade through 12th grade. A good coach will get the most out of the athletes he has no matter what system he implements, and can make personnel adjustments to compensate for those differences.

[Bullaholic]

You live and die with your HC/AD and HIS system and coaches.....period---end of story.

[poisoned10]

Originally posted by lostaussie
They didn't against us. Never threw the ball one stinkin time.

Actually, if I remember correctly, I believe they had 1 or 2 passing TD's against us.

I'll have to try to look up the stats and see. But I know they threw atleast 1 or 2 deep passes that were completed.

[runtowin]

1 pass for 8 yards vs gilmer
42 passes over 14 games on the year

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
1 pass for 8 yards vs gilmer
42 passes over 14 games on the year How many yards and touchdowns were off of those 42 throws?


Aside from the opening kickoff LH's defense controlled that game and the offense never had a reason to throw.

[runtowin]

Not sure on the yards. But I bet there were more ints than tds maybe even more ints than comps
Another wonderful spread off shoot are the hideous 7 on 7 tourn. My favorites are the schools that win these tourn and can't win games in the fall
7 on 7 is like bkball teams having 3pt contests all summer not real!
The only good part is watching kids compete

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

It's all about the athletes, and I'm not sure why people are having trouble grasping that simple fact.

Liberty Hill was so dominant with their rushing attack because they had powerful runners who were hard to tackle and strong, quick offensive lineman who could go pad on pad and out-power opposing defenses. Even if they did stuff the box they rarely had the athletes to stop the run on a consistent basis because all it took was that one play to break lose and it went to the house. Not to mention the misdirection plays. The Liberty Hill coach utilized the strength of his players and had a great scheme, but not an infallible one....

Gilmer was full of athletes, they had someone who could sling the rock and explosive skills position players who could outrun the secondary and make moves in the open field. Hence why the spread offense worked so well for them, because other teams had trouble covering superior athletic talent in an open space.

Look at the professional and collegiate levels, you don't see a whole lot of major D1 teams that are just smash mouth, in your face like Liberty Hill was. You also don't see teams that run only the spread and base their entire success around it, aside from Hawaii and Tech, and Tech had their one year in the spotlight. It's just uncommon that you're going to be able to push everybody around or outrun, jump, or juke the entire other team. You see balanced teams that use both. But this is high school, and you rarely have the talent to do both successfully, so just play with the strengths that you have. If you don't have a quarterback that can throw and backs and a line that can move the ball running, then by all means do so. In the same token, if you have a quarterback who can sling the rock and skill players who are explosive, but no real power running game, then play to those strengths. If you can do both, then do both and be successful. It's simple as that. Football isn't rocket science.

[Rabid Cougar]

China Spring has been running the spread for 11 years. Done a pretty good job of winning games too.

Bell always seems to find a QB that throws and have enough recievers to catch the ball. Running the passing spread is really an advantage at 3 A and lower. You will rarely find a 3 A school and under that can field 4 or 5 quality DB's.

[OldBison75]

This argument is really just a personal choice that one person is making about a coaching choice he is not happy with.

I can tell you that I have watched football for about 45 years and have seen some really exciting teams that ran every offense imaginable. The old Texas Longhorn Wishbone with players like Gilbert, Wooster, Leaks and those guys was fun to watch. The veer in Houston under Bill Yoeman was exciting. Florida State had some really super teams in theearly 90's that could run or pass and did both very well.

In high school, I played against teams from Blooming Grove and Rosebud Lott that had one super back that ran three plays all night. Super back left, Superback right, and superback up the middle. They were bigger, stronger, and faster than us and whipped our butts. I also played against some pretty good passing teams and we had better luck because we had the ability tomatch up better. I have watched some of the teams talked about in this thread. We played LH in one of thier championship season and they dominated the game. The beat us on the line of scrimmage on both sides, they beat us with superior ball handling, and they beat us in the one on one situations where a tackle was missed because they never stopped moving forward. The system did not beat us, the kids that carried out the system beat us. They were better prepared, did not make mistakes, and never once believed they could not win any game.

Against Gilmer this past year, the two teams matched up pretty well. It was back and forth all day and in the end, Gilmer made the plays when they had to. They ran thier system as well as it could be done and so did Navasota. Athletically the two teams were very similar. BUT, Gilmer players made thier plays in the clutch and they won the game. Again, the players believing in the system and executing the system won the game, not the system.

I love the spread because it is exciting when there is the potiential for a big play every down. But, that is not really different from a good wishbone or veer team that can strike from anywhere anytime.

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Rabid Cougar
China Spring has been running the spread for 11 years. Done a pretty good job of winning games too.

Bell always seems to find a QB s. If he can't find one he and his wife will make one

[runtowin]

Like you said personal preference. I prefer smashmouth real MAN football. Beat me physically not by avoiding me

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by runtowin
Like you said personal preference. I prefer smashmouth real MAN football. Beat me physically not by avoiding me


I love this..only smashmouth football is real football crap.

[lostaussie]

Originally posted by runtowin
1 pass for 8 yards vs gilmer
42 passes over 14 games on the year Evidently I was in the bathroom throwing up when they ran this play:D cause for the life of me I thought they never threw a pass

[runtowin]

Maybe the qb tucked and ran. It was a bootleg type play

[garciap77]

Originally posted by runtowin
Why do the fans, parents, board etc. want to see the spread offense when looking for new head football coaches?
Just because they see it on Saturday, Sunday and Monday doesn't make it right for Friday night! I understand at some of the bigger 5A schools, but for 3A and lower RUN the ball, control the clock and be successful. It is getting very annoying watching this offense "spread". College and professional teams have unlimited time and resources to make the offense efficient. HS coaches and kids make a joke of it. 3 and out, 3 and out over and over!

IMO! With the exception of LH, Running the ball on every down is just boring! I like a balance attack!

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
Like you said personal preference. I prefer smashmouth real MAN football. Beat me physically not by avoiding me lmao.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by lostaussie
Evidently I was in the bathroom throwing up when they ran this play:D cause for the life of me I thought they never threw a pass
You weren't! :D I thought he was crazy....and I was right! ;)

Liberty Hill Panthers
Gilmer Buckeyes
Game Date: 12/15/2007
Start Time: 4:00 PM


Score by QUARTERS Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4 OT Final
Liberty Hill (14-0) 12 13 7 6 - 38
Gilmer (0-1) 7 0 6 0 - 13



FIRST QUARTER
G: Justin Johnson 77 kickoff return (Adan Olivares kick). LH: Dustin Gonzales 11 run (kick failed). LH: Gonzales 31 run (run failed).

SECOND QUARTER
LH: Doug Allman 3 run (run failed). LH: Gonzales 63 run (Craig Havins run).

THIRD QUARTER
G: Lamar Harris 34 pass from Darian Godfrey (run failed). LH: Allman 4 run (Havins kick).

FOURTH QUARTER
LH: Clint Gavin 7 run (kick failed).


Team Statistics


Liberty Hill Gilmer
First Downs - FD 18 8
Passing - COMP 0 13
Passing - ATT 0 31
Passing - YDS 0 118
Rushing - ATT 57 21
Rushing - YDS 342 13
Rushing - TD 6 0
Interceptions - INT 0 0
Punts - PUNTS 3 2
Punts - PAVG 34.00 35.00
Fumbles - FUMB 4 3
Fumbles - LOST 1 2
Penalties - PEN 5 5
Penalties - YDS 43 43


Individual Statistics


Passing - Liberty Hill COMP ATT YDS INT TD
Braden Fickel 0 0 0 0 0

Passing - Gilmer COMP ATT YDS INT TD
Darian Godfrey 13 31 118 0 1




Rushing - Liberty Hill ATT YDS TD
Doug Allman 21 113 2
Clint Gavin 14 68 1
Dustin Gonzales 13 161 2

Rushing - Gilmer ATT YDS TD
Darian Godfrey 9 -3 0
Justin Johnson 10 17 0




Receiving - Gilmer REC YDS TD
Lamar Harris 3 32 1
Houston Tuminello 5 59 0

AAS stats page (http://www.statesman.com/sports/stats/football/controller?Class=201101&Page=schedule_list&AltAction=&Nav=schdresults&Sport=1&Season=6&seasonName=2007&Player=&School=&Venue=&Schedule=302251&coxnet_site_id=6801&startDate=2007-12-09&endDate=2007-12-15&schoolName=)

[runtowin]

Like I said he must have kept it

[runtowin]

Confirmed with a coach pass 319 waggle in lh stats called play got 8 yards does not indicate thrown or ran. So lhpm's stats mean it was kept on the ground

[Additup]

The common ground of all the good teams you listed is that they basically played 3A football in a two-platoon system...HUGE advantage whether Spread or not.

In 3A it's More important than the offensive system. A team that spends 8 hours a week preparing for the offensive side of the game will be very good at their offense 7-8 weeks into the season. It's hard for 4 hour of offense a week teams to get significantly better over the season. 1 game plan (offense) for kids to learn instead of 2 (offense and defense). Effort on every play shows up because kids play 60 plays instead of 140.

Two platoon effects the way you practice, depth, injuries, attitudes and developing players.

People don't notice that from the stands. Gilmer, Celina, Carthage and Liberty Hill don't have 5-6 two way players every year. In 5A 2 platoon is a wash because of everyone's numbers.

[runtowin]

Lh doesn't 2 platoon

[Additup]

I don't think LH did 2 platooned this past year. When they were good, they did. They've always used 1 or 2 crossover players (I know they had a DE/HB and DE/TE), but mainly offensive players and defensive players at practices.

Coach Vance told me 3 years ago he thought two platooning was a huge advantage for LH. He also said he thought they'd have more 2 way players in 2008 and 2009 based on the depth of talent. I think they made it through 2008 still two platooning.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by runtowin
Like you said personal preference. I prefer smashmouth real MAN football. Beat me physically not by avoiding me
Hmmmmmmmmm

What about running offenses that use misdirection and offenses that have 3 running backs and you never know where the ball is? Or an option offense? That is avoiding the defense

Gotcha.

Please close the thread now.

[runtowin]

anytime lineman are attacking and moving the line of scrimmage that is smashmouth. of course the man with the ball should avoid the defense but watching lineman back pedal and sling pass rushers to the ground is not smashmouth man football.

[Emerson1]

I see a lot more big hits on receivers going across the middle or going up for a ball then I do on a running back trying to gain 3 yards hiding behind his linemen.

[runtowin]

that may be the only good part. unfortunately, that's were most of the concussions come from too.

[runtowin]

i also enjoy watching small quick d-linemen race past big sloppy o-linemen with bad feet to knock the crap out of a quarterback fumbling with a bad shotgunned snap. Ahh, the spread offense, Everyone should run it!

[ziggy29]

A couple months ago, Slot-T happy coach David Yeager indicated Llano would run more out of the spread. He isn't completely abandoning the Slot-T, but wants to add the spread offense to the playbook as I understand it.

I can see why he wants to do that. The Jackets are a team which historically has had problems coming back and adjusting to defenses that can stuff the run up the middle, since Llano rarely had a Plan B.

In my opinion, one-dimensional teams can do well enough in district play to make the playoffs, but the best teams need to be able to run AND pass if they want to have a chance to win state. Llano has been competitive with the Slot-T, but when they've faced teams that could stop it, they were pretty much toasted. I suspect Yeager's announcement is intended to provide a Plan B, not so much a wholesale departure from his philosophy. But we'll see come September.

[runtowin]

usually when you dabble in multiple schemes you are okay at them, not great. Llano has been a much better and tougher opponent since the switch to the slot-t. I hate that he is succombing to the pressures of the community who want to see a watered down version of college and pro football.

as for LH and platooning, not sure what definition is being used. yes for the most part LH doesn't start players both ways but they do practice on both sides of the ballm not 8 hours of offense or defense but 4 of each. contrary to what was posted awhile back. it does provide an advantage when it comes to stamina late in the game. but they are not in the luxury of only having offensive players and defensive players. everyone has a role and many have multiple. just like most 3A schools

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by runtowin
usually when you dabble in multiple schemes you are okay at them, not great. Llano has been a much better and tougher opponent since the switch to the slot-t. I hate that he is succombing to the pressures of the community who want to see a watered down version of college and pro football.


Yeah, and every time I watched Llano play they got pounded by a defense with a three-man front.

The reason that college and pro teams run a spread offense and open up the field is because everybody is big, strong, and fast at that level of play and you're not just going to bully over every team every play. That's simple football, if you can't get that and understand that a 90% powering running offense isn't going to work, then you don't know anything about football.

[runtowin]

I get that for college and pro. If you read any of the 6 pages you would get that we are talking about HS not college and pro. Also being from rockdale you should know that LH running 99.5% of the time did just fine against you and most of their opponents.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by runtowin
I get that for college and pro. If you read any of the 6 pages you would get that we are talking about HS not college and pro. Also being from rockdale you should know that LH running 99.5% of the time did just fine against you and most of their opponents.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that, but you've implied that running the ball is the best way to success and that running the ball is the tough, macho side of football and the spread is for people who don't like contact. My only point was that fundamentally you don't understand football if you think that running the ball is the best way to win. At this level, it's about playing to the strength of your players, and LH did that well. It wasn't just Rockdale that couldn't stop them, it was everybody. That tells me that every defensive coordinator who played Liberty Hill didn't know what they were doing, because stopping a running only offense is easy to do, very easy to do. I could sit down with a chalkboard and show you how to do it every play. And that's something that I learned while playing college football. The spread is much more complicated and difficult to stop from a schematic standpoint, that's why it is a superior offense in today's game and why you see college and pro teams running it and not the Slot T.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by runtowin
i also enjoy watching small quick d-linemen race past big sloppy o-linemen with bad feet to knock the crap out of a quarterback fumbling with a bad shotgunned snap. Ahh, the spread offense, Everyone should run it!
Now you are just creating bad scenarios on why the spread isn't good.

What do you do if a team has linemen that average 230? Forney would have gone 0-10 the past 2 seasons if we didn't go to the spread because our line was so small. They just tried to redirect the defender just long enough to open up a hole for our QB who was the fastest kid on the team. Which is a lot easier to do when you only have to deal with 7 guys in the box instead of 9-10.

[orange machine]

I hate the spread, but i see where its a good change of pace. I like the old power football, but I think its ok to change it up every njow and then.

[runtowin]

I am not sure how anyone can think that snapping the ball backwards where one would have to run 3-4 yards just to reach the original line of scrimmage or where the pass is the main staple when only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad is the best way to be successful for hs kids. Run the ball run the clock don't lose yards and be consistant. Not many running teams get embarrased on the scoreboard because of time of position

[Pick6]

Originally posted by runtowin
I am not sure how anyone can think that snapping the ball backwards where one would have to run 3-4 yards just to reach the original line of scrimmage or where the pass is the main staple when only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad is the best way to be successful for hs kids. Run the ball run the clock don't lose yards and be consistant. Not many running teams get embarrased on the scoreboard because of time of position

What's just running the ball done for you the last couple of years?

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Originally posted by lostaussie
You need to get out and see some more high school football. To say Gilmer can't run the spread is like saying Jim Joyce made the right call last night:D I have seen some 2a schools do pretty well with it also.

Kirbyville got a good dose of what a N. Texas 2A spread team could do and did not like it very much....it was pretty effecient in totalling 6,500 yards, and a 3rd State title.:)

[runtowin]

In vance's 9 years 90+ wins 5 semifinal games back to back state champs and 38 game win streak. All running the ball

[Pick6]

Originally posted by runtowin
In vance's 9 years 90+ wins 5 semifinal games back to back state champs and 38 game win streak. All running the ball

Again, what about the last 2 years of just running the ball. What has it gotten you?

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by runtowin
In vance's 9 years 90+ wins 5 semifinal games back to back state champs and 38 game win streak. All running the ball
He has also had amazing athletes that were capable of holding teams like Gilmer in check. LH could have ran the spread those years and still made runs.

btw I would much rather watch an amazing running offense then I would a spread, but your reasons for why the spread sucks are just stupid.

[LHexPlayer]

Originally posted by Pick6
Again, what about the last 2 years of just running the ball. What has it gotten you?

Is he from Liberty Hill?

[runtowin]

Faced celina at semis in 08 bad year in 09

[runtowin]

Lh doesn't have athletes they have team players. Vs gilmer lh had 1 college player gilmer had 7

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by runtowin
I am not sure how anyone can think that snapping the ball backwards where one would have to run 3-4 yards just to reach the original line of scrimmage or where the pass is the main staple when only 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad is the best way to be successful for hs kids. Run the ball run the clock don't lose yards and be consistant. Not many running teams get embarrased on the scoreboard because of time of position

Well the only play where the ball doesn't move backwards to go forwards is the quarterback under center and runs a sneak every play. I guess that's the way it should be though, right? I guarantee you that you could take a group of offensive players and I'll take a group of defensive players and you can run your little Slot T or Wing T, whatever you want to run, and I'll shut you down every play. You obviously have no real knowledge of the technical aspects of football. You play football to the strengths of your athletes, you don't just run the ball every play. There is a reason that LH ran the ball every play, because they could do it and win. And they could do it and win because they had big, strong offensive linemen and hard running backs and went up against teams that were physically over-matched, and even if they were evenly athletically, they out-coached the other team. It isn't hard to stop a run-based attack. If you knew anything about offensive and defensive strategy, you would know that.

[Ernest T Bass]

Ahhh, the ole run vs pass/spread vs nonspread debate. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. But if you hang your hat on only one, unless you have superior athletes, you will be unsuccessfull. Other than that, it comes down to what the playcaller feels comfortable with. I, myself, prefer a balanced attack with a TE or 2(forces the defense to balance up and keep honest personel) and mostly out of the shotgun(allows the QB to make postsnap run/pass reads). But that's just me

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
i also enjoy watching small quick d-linemen race past big sloppy o-linemen with bad feet to knock the crap out of a quarterback fumbling with a bad shotgunned snap. Ahh, the spread offense, Everyone should run it! Then I'd enjoy running sceens and shovel passes and attacking that vacated space.

[BEAST]

runtowin just dont get it. Look, the run LH had was awesome. However, you said they didnt have ATHLETES, only team players. Im pretty sure they did have some athletes. I wasnt aware athletes couldnt be team players. Anyway, heres a thought, winning football isnt all about being physical. That said, to win you do have to be physical but you need to be smart. For example, ever see what happens on 3rd and inches when a Qb fakes the handoff and rolls out with a TE and WR on middle and deep routes? Ill tell you, almost always a 1st down and alot of the time its a TD. Same can be said on 3rd and 8 situations. The D knows a pass is coming so they play off a bit. Qb takes a shotgun snap and counts to 2 and picks up 10-12 right up the gut. When a coach realizes half of the game is outsmarting the other team, things can really get fun. When a spread offense sees a defense second geussing and playing on its heels, its over.




BEAST

[runtowin]

I get it and I am done, we will agree to disagree. Spread guys keep spreading. I will stick to the ground. See Ya!

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by runtowin
I get it and I am done, we will agree to disagree. Spread guys keep spreading. I will stick to the ground. See Ya! I'm not agreeing to nothing!

[ziggy29]

I don't think HS teams need to run the spread, but I do think they need to be able to pass. Here in Llano we've seen decent success with the Slot-T in recent years and have won a fair number of games with it, including into the playoffs. But the season usually ends when the opponent is solid at stuffing the run.

But these have also been teams which had almost nonexistent passing games. If you fell behind quickly and had no passing attack (as happened in the Canyon Lake game last year), you're in trouble. If the opposing team has success stopping the run, you're in trouble; you have no Plan B.

Coach Yeager says the Jackets will run some out of the spread this coming season, though the Slot-T isn't going to be completely abandoned. I like the Slot-T when it works (and it does against *most* opponents), but I've always felt it wasn't enough because sometimes you will be put in a situation where you need to be able to pass. It's nice to have options which give you more room for adjustments.

[Ernest T Bass]

The spread is simply a formation. It means one back, no tight end. That's all. It's not a playbook or a "system". Just a formation with varriations. The idea is to force the defense to defend the entire field and "spread" the defense out, therefore creating lanes and gaps for routes and running plays.
An offense must be balanced to be successfull. If you hang your hat on the pass or the run, you will not be successfull.