Car audio

[Emerson1]

Does anyone know anything about this stuff? PM if you do.

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Does anyone know anything about this stuff? PM if you do.

If you roll down your windows and play loud, it irritates people.:cool: But then, that may be what you're looking for. I consider it lack of civility, but I'm old, so what do I know. Maybe young folks enjoy listening to other folk's music?

[bobcat4life]

nothin like rollin with loud music and the windows down. But thats just me and my wild style

[ronwx5x]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
nothin like rollin with loud music and the windows down. But thats just me and my wild style

Has to do with age, I'm sure. What thrill do you get from this activity? Just the thought of irritating the geezers?

[DU_stud04]

this is me pm'ing you.

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by ronwx5x
Has to do with age, I'm sure. What thrill do you get from this activity? Just the thought of irritating the geezers? I just like having them know Im there and that Im a bad@$$

[DU_stud04]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
I just like having them know Im there and that Im a bad@$$ you're not, so quit lying to them.

[poisoned10]

I'm pretty decent with it. I'm not a professional or anything but I installed everything in my car which includes: in dash cd/DVD player, sub and amp with a capacitor. I did the full installation myself.

So PM if you're still looking for help.

[Farmersfan]

I worked as a Commercial Sales Manager for Car Toys for about 6 months before realizing that was a young mans job. What answers are you looking for?

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
a young mans job.
Aren't you like 17?

[waterboy]

I've had numerous car sound systems. The best I've found spec wise is Sony. They have the best reception, especially important in rural areas, and the best signal-to-noise ratio of any on the market. If you are hooking up amps, be sure and get a receiver that has at least a 4-amp sub out, which are only available on their higher end models. In my Explorer I have a 65-WPC 4-channel amp pushing my front four speakers, and a Sony XPlod 100-WPC 2-channel amp pushing my 12" XPlod subs. The Sony XPlod subs go all the way down to 20-hurtz, which is about the lowest audible bass wave octave. My system will thump even at low volumes.:D To be honest, I've listened to a LOT of sound systems, and for the money (about $1200 complete), mine sounds a whole lot better than any other one I've heard.:D Of course, I've always been an audiophile kind of person.:cool:

[Farmersfan]

For a good quality sound system I wouldn't even install a sub. A good set of mids and highs will produce all the sound you need. A quality set of 5" or 6" Focals can produce low end responses down to 50Hz and this will give you a good quality sound. If you want to feel the bass then be aware that the lower you go the slower the response. Subs are all about the drivers. The bigger the driver-the lower(and slower) the sound. I would never go above a single 12" sub for a normal size car. But I also believe all that thumping ruins good music. And never drive a sub with less than 150watts of power. (RMS power-Not peak power).
For what it's worth....................

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Aren't you like 17?


Not yet!!!! :D

[DDBooger]

Looking to replace my 6 x 9s in my Grand Cherokee, any suggestions. (no amp)

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Looking to replace my 6 x 9s in my Grand Cherokee, any suggestions. (no amp)



Does it have the premium sound? The Infinity sound system requires some extra work if you want to upgrade only a portion of the system.



http://www.wjjeeps.com/radios.htm

[Farmersfan]

Sorry! Wrong link on previous post.



http://www.wjjeeps.com/audioupgrade.htm

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Sorry! Wrong link on previous post.



http://www.wjjeeps.com/audioupgrade.htm Thx, I think it is the infinity system

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by DU_stud04
you're not, so quit lying to them. Im gonna let them know Im there and that I dont give a damn if you dont like it

[Emerson1]

Unless you drive a really nice truck or car, there is no point in letting everyone know you are rolling up in a ford pinto.

Then you struggle getting out because you are sore.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Unless you drive a really nice truck or car, there is no point in letting everyone know you are rolling up in a ford pinto.

Then you struggle getting out because you are sore.
Hahahaha!!!!!! I literally lol'ed! :D

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Hahahaha!!!!!! I literally lol'ed! :D +2

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Unless you drive a really nice truck or car, there is no point in letting everyone know you are rolling up in a ford pinto.

Then you struggle getting out because you are sore.

Even if you drive a really nice vehicle you shouldn't have a sound system that will make you go deaf. You look like a total asshate when you drive around like that.

[Old Tiger]

I hate when the trunk rattles...it sounds like garbage.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Even if you drive a really nice vehicle you shouldn't have a sound system that will make you go deaf. You look like a total asshate when you drive around like that. To me it just screams for people to break in and steal your equipment. Every buddy of mine who had a system, had it jacked.

[BaseballUmp]

yup had mine jacked yesterday morning...quite pissed off about it

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by Emerson1
Unless you drive a really nice truck or car, there is no point in letting everyone know you are rolling up in a ford pinto.

Then you struggle getting out because you are sore. ITS NOT A PINTO ITS A MINIVAN!!!!


JK I roll in a 2006 GMC Sierra or a my friends Jeep

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
I hate when the trunk rattles...it sounds like garbage.
I put myself on like a $250 budget, I don't have to worry about having king kong in the trunk

[BaseballUmp]

Yea im searching for a new amp and cd player without spending too much

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BaseballUmp
Yea im searching for a new amp and cd player without spending too much tell your girlfriend to hook you up

[BaseballUmp]

lol ive been riding around with pandora on my phone the last 2 days and she just spent 400 on her car getting it fixed

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by BaseballUmp
lol ive been riding around with pandora on my phone the last 2 days and she just spent 400 on her car getting it fixed bad luck all around

[sinton66]

Originally posted by BaseballUmp
Yea im searching for a new amp and cd player without spending too much

Craig's List, but be careful.

[BaseballUmp]

i know right, but my brother won 2500 on a lotto ticket yesterday and let me hold a couple hundred haha

[BaseballUmp]

Originally posted by sinton66
Craig's List, but be careful.

Yea i dont trust many things i see on there. haha im the kind of person that will email someone on there saying it looks like a good deal then they tell me to call and set up something and I never do it haha. id rather it be done within a store or from someone i know personally

[Farmersfan]

If anyone has actually listened to a very top-of-the-line system it will blow you away. I'm almost 50 and can't listen to my music near as loud as I use to but I still love to feel the highs and lows of a really good system that is tuned to perfection. Try going into a Cartoys demo room and listen to some Focal KP1s that are run through a really good JL Audio amp. The sound will impress you. but you spend a lot of money on these systems and they can "disappear" very quickly if you live in a bad area.........
Anyone ever listen to music with a set of Dre's Solo headphones? Think about that kind of quality blasting the paint off your car!!!

[Emerson1]

delete some PMs farmersfan

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Emerson1
delete some PMs farmersfan



Done!

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Emerson1
I put myself on like a $250 budget, I don't have to worry about having king kong in the trunk
Buy used. You can get a great setup for $250 off of some forums. Just ask around for a poster's credibility before buying. Most of these guys are straight up, though.

DIYMA (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/)

Elemental Designs (http://forum.edesignaudio.com/forumdisplay.php/sale-11.html?f=11)

CarAudio.com Classifieds (http://caraudioforum.com/classifieds.php)

Sound Domain (http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=10&page=1)

Amp Guts (http://audiojunkies.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=62)

This should get you started.



Originally posted by Farmersfan
For a good quality sound system I wouldn't even install a sub. A good set of mids and highs will produce all the sound you need. A quality set of 5" or 6" Focals can produce low end responses down to 50Hz and this will give you a good quality sound. If you want to feel the bass then be aware that the lower you go the slower the response. Subs are all about the drivers. The bigger the driver-the lower(and slower) the sound. I would never go above a single 12" sub for a normal size car. But I also believe all that thumping ruins good music. And never drive a sub with less than 150watts of power. (RMS power-Not peak power).
For what it's worth....................
Originally posted by Farmersfan
If anyone has actually listened to a very top-of-the-line system it will blow you away. I'm almost 50 and can't listen to my music near as loud as I use to but I still love to feel the highs and lows of a really good system that is tuned to perfection. Try going into a Cartoys demo room and listen to some Focal KP1s that are run through a really good JL Audio amp. The sound will impress you. but you spend a lot of money on these systems and they can "disappear" very quickly if you live in a bad area.........
Anyone ever listen to music with a set of Dre's Solo headphones? Think about that kind of quality blasting the paint off your car!!!
I agree completely on everything you just said. My system is a stealth-installed system that sounds fantastic, but I have to turn the sub output all the way down or else the bass overwhelms the music. I have a Pioneer Premier headunit going to an Audio Control Overdrive (I prefer a flat, on-axis system with no EQ) which feeds an old A/D/S 5-channel. Front stage are Focal separates and I have an Image Dynamics 10" (one of the best SQ subs on the market) hooked up for bass... and I'm trying to downsize to that Focal 5" sub. 10" is far too big for a decent-sounding SQ system IMO, although it's acceptable (too acceptable) in the car industry.

If I had it to do all over, I would've done a three-way front stage with a 7" mid bass and left it as is. The sub takes away from the music in the confines of a car or truck (though it can work in a large SUV).

[TMer25]

Focal, Morel, and JL are my 3 favorites in the car audio field.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by TMer25
Focal, Morel, and JL are my 3 favorites in the car audio field.
Good call. Forgot all about it Emerson, but you could always do raw drivers and save some $$$. Morels and Focal drivers will cost you some dough, but if you go down to Vifa or the like you can save some money and still have a speaker setup that's every bit as good as most $600 setups.

Zalytron (http://zalytron.com/)

Speaker City (http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SC&Category_Code=VifaCar)


Another option is WoofersEtc.com, but be careful with them. I'd only buy their CDT's or other brands they're authorized to sell. Stick to the CDT's specifically over there. Have some great prices on them (used to have a $600 component set for $130) and they're more efficient (they play louder with the same amount of power) than most of the other speakers I've given you. An average CDT driver (91-93 db sensitivity) with 25 watts RMS will play as loud as my Focal (87 db) setup will play with 75 watts RMS.

[SintonFan]

I remember the days of yore. Had 2 15 inch Pyle drivers(back when they were better quality) in my '85 Shelby Charger. The Sherwood deck was awesome. I used Pioneer 6150 4-way 6x9s to go with the bass. That was a fun system.

Cheesy video link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaeNelsAOGo)

I wouldn't dream of something like that today. It is all about quality and balance of sound.

[Emerson1]

I think I am gonna convert my bed into this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CewacsP6TSY

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Emerson1
I think I am gonna convert my bed into this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CewacsP6TSY
There you go.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Buy used. You can get a great setup for $250 off of some forums. Just ask around for a poster's credibility before buying. Most of these guys are straight up, though.

DIYMA (http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/classifieds/)

Elemental Designs (http://forum.edesignaudio.com/forumdisplay.php/sale-11.html?f=11)

CarAudio.com Classifieds (http://caraudioforum.com/classifieds.php)

Sound Domain (http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=10&page=1)

Amp Guts (http://audiojunkies.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=62)

This should get you started.



I agree completely on everything you just said. My system is a stealth-installed system that sounds fantastic, but I have to turn the sub output all the way down or else the bass overwhelms the music. I have a Pioneer Premier headunit going to an Audio Control Overdrive (I prefer a flat, on-axis system with no EQ) which feeds an old A/D/S 5-channel. Front stage are Focal separates and I have an Image Dynamics 10" (one of the best SQ subs on the market) hooked up for bass... and I'm trying to downsize to that Focal 5" sub. 10" is far too big for a decent-sounding SQ system IMO, although it's acceptable (too acceptable) in the car industry.

If I had it to do all over, I would've done a three-way front stage with a 7" mid bass and left it as is. The sub takes away from the music in the confines of a car or truck (though it can work in a large SUV).




Most of the Focal component sets will reproduce down to 50hz.
That is low enough for any sound system as long as you aren't wanting to BOUNCE the vehicle. The 5" sub is perfect in a normal sized car. Low frequency sound travels very slowly (by comparison) and spreads out slowly. A normal sub requires the sound to move more than 15' to spread out enough to fill a normal sized vehicle. That's why most quality applications will have the subs facing to the rear so the sound will get the bounce effect before it gets to the passengers. A quality mid & high range speaker can reproduce almost the entire range of 28Khz down to 50hz. On another note: Have any of you ever listened a Jack Hammer sub driven by 4000 or 5000 watts???? I don't even know if the Jack Hammer is still popular but at one time it was the Big Dog. That's the one that created all the urban legends of peoples guts exploding and bones cracking!!!!!!!! Sounds like fun! :D :D

[BwdLion73]

My vehicles standard system sounds good to me.....

........but I'm an old fuddy duddy I guess. I do remember my Craig 8 track power play with a 40 watt booster and Jensen tri axil speakers! Ok now back to ya'lls space craft.

:D :D :D

[Reds fan]

Shucks, if it ain't DELCO or PHILCO, it's all beyond me!!!:D :D

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Most of the Focal component sets will reproduce down to 50hz.
That is low enough for any sound system as long as you aren't wanting to BOUNCE the vehicle. The 5" sub is perfect in a normal sized car. Low frequency sound travels very slowly (by comparison) and spreads out slowly. A normal sub requires the sound to move more than 15' to spread out enough to fill a normal sized vehicle. That's why most quality applications will have the subs facing to the rear so the sound will get the bounce effect before it gets to the passengers. A quality mid & high range speaker can reproduce almost the entire range of 28Khz down to 50hz. On another note: Have any of you ever listened a Jack Hammer sub driven by 4000 or 5000 watts???? I don't even know if the Jack Hammer is still popular but at one time it was the Big Dog. That's the one that created all the urban legends of peoples guts exploding and bones cracking!!!!!!!! Sounds like fun! :D :D
I only have 5" components that struggle below 80 hz. They're rated to 58 hz, but I'd rather slide a midbass/sub in at around 100-120 hz to take over for the midrange.

Never heard the Jackhammer, but heard the stories. I have heard the PG Cyclone and that 32" sub that Clarion made some 10 years ago. Those were both monsters, though the Cyclone didn't have anywhere close to the thump that the Clarion had. The Blazer that had the Clarion in it had to disconnect the sub when it wasn't at a show.

I'll tell you what, those JL's you were talking about are some great amps, too. Especially for the money. I had a four-channel JL and would still have it if I hadn't come across this old A/D/S.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I only have 5" components that struggle below 80 hz. They're rated to 58 hz, but I'd rather slide a midbass/sub in at around 100-120 hz to take over for the midrange.

Never heard the Jackhammer, but heard the stories. I have heard the PG Cyclone and that 32" sub that Clarion made some 10 years ago. Those were both monsters, though the Cyclone didn't have anywhere close to the thump that the Clarion had. The Blazer that had the Clarion in it had to disconnect the sub when it wasn't at a show.

I'll tell you what, those JL's you were talking about are some great amps, too. Especially for the money. I had a four-channel JL and would still have it if I hadn't come across this old A/D/S.



If I understand it correctly the lower the sound the slower the response and the more power it takes to reproduce the sound. If your mids struggle at the lower frequencies I would say it is under powered just a little.
Those 32" subs you mentioned sound like novalty subs. The jack hammer was an actual retail product that a lot of people bought. Here's a link. It requires a minumum of 3000 watts to drive this big boy. At full power I heard it can do internal damage. :D :D

http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackhammer.cfm

[poisoned10]

I have a Chevy Impala with 1 JL Audio 13w6 powered by a 600 rms watt Phoenix Gold Amp.

I plan to get some Infinity's to replace the factory speakers in the near future.

[poisoned10]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
I hate when the trunk rattles...it sounds like garbage.

It sounds like garbage on the outside, but it sounds completely different inside the car. My trunk rattles pretty bad, but I can't hear it at all.

[Farmersfan]

My youngest son brought home a friend of his about 4 years ago that had just bought a jacked up Tahoe and they were going to install a "Sound System"! this kid had a 1000watt amp and two 15" off brand subs and a cheap arse enclosure. They worked all day and got these subs hooked up to the amp and put this on the FACTORY deck and speakers. They turned in on and it rattled the windows in the house. sitting in the Tahoe, you could only feel the subs and barely even hear the rest of the sounds. No line level adjusters or anything. It sounded like a total peice of crap but they completely loved it. Ever since then when I hear a thumper on the streets I get a big smile out of it................

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by poisoned10
It sounds like garbage on the outside, but it sounds completely different inside the car. My trunk rattles pretty bad, but I can't hear it at all.



Put some Dynamat on the inside of your trunk. It not only will stop the rattling but it will make the system sound even better.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by poisoned10
I have a Chevy Impala with 1 JL Audio 13w6 powered by a 600 rms watt Phoenix Gold Amp.

I plan to get some Infinity's to replace the factory speakers in the near future.
I have 2 sets of Infinity 6832cf 6"x8" speakers in the front with an Alpine 65wpc 4-channel amp pushing them, and a set of Sony XPlod 12" subwoofers with a Sony 200wpc 2-channel amp pushing them. My Explorer rocks pretty good, although I don't get to drive it much, and when I do I usually have my family with me and they can't take it with any volume.

[poisoned10]

I may be trading in the Impala for an Avalanche and my sub is too big to fit under a seat, so I'm going to be selling ALL of my equipment.

I have:

1 - JL Audio 13w6v2 (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=18) sub in a custom box built by Performance Audio in Tyler.

1 - Phoenix Gold Octane 8.0.1 Mono Amp (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1491_Phoenix+Gold+R8.0-1.html)

1 - Rockford Fosgate Capacitor (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/photos/CPCD10-03_1_m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp%3Fitem_id%3D83331%26locale%3De n_US&usg=__eH798mG6A61s9tsmFhP90ZzTZvY=&h=220&w=260&sz=16&hl=en&start=10&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_DDy2eETwGwulM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drockford%2Bfosgate%2Bcap%26um%3D1%26h l%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1)

1 - Innovatek CD/DVD Player w/5 inch Touchscreen (http://innovatek.cn/products/all-in-one/IN-5300BTS/IN-5300BTS.htm)

The wiring and a custom box built by Performance Audio in Tyler will be included.

PM me if you might be interested or want more information and/or pictures.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
If I understand it correctly the lower the sound the slower the response and the more power it takes to reproduce the sound. If your mids struggle at the lower frequencies I would say it is under powered just a little.
Those 32" subs you mentioned sound like novalty subs. The jack hammer was an actual retail product that a lot of people bought. Here's a link. It requires a minumum of 3000 watts to drive this big boy. At full power I heard it can do internal damage. :D :D

http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackhammer.cfm
Oh yeah, I've seen those Jackhammers on the showroom floor, just never in action. But I know they're monsters and can handle any amount of power you can throw at them. That Clarion wasn't intended as a novelty, but that's what it wound up being due to the fact that you could buy several PPI flat piston 12's for the same price as the 32.

And that A/D/S is rated to 90 wpc bridged, but the birth sheet has it at 144 wpc. But you're right about Focals drinking power like it's nothing. The first amp I hooked up to a set of Focals was the original Soundstream Class A DaVinci bridged to 200 rated wpc (it was probably closer to 300 in real world power) and they handled that amp at full tilt just fine.

I've always been a fan of Focal/JM Labs, it's just that those kevlar Focals have always struggled a bit in the lower octaves. The Utopias supposedly do much better, but that's the major thing I like better about the Dynaudios--true low-end extension. Either way, those Focals have that completely transparent upper- and mid-range and are possibly the most responsive $800 components I've found. They also handle plenty of power cleanly and, if powered properly, won't clip out at their outer limits (mine are only rated to 140 watts RMS).

Good to see at least one more audiophile on the site.

[tex_male]

I had a Phoenix Gold 500.1 pushing 2 10W1V2 @ 2 Ohms. Until one day I got tired of seeing my old pair of JL12W3V2 sitting on the shelf without a box, I bought a box for them and forgot the amp was 2 Ohm stable and wired them @ 1 Ohm fried the amp. So I bought a VR600D 600 watts @ 1 Ohm and hooked up the 2 JL12W3V2 which are rated for max 250 watts I thought I had the Amp cut back but 2 days later I had 2 blown subs. So to get me by until my new pair of JL12W6V2 got here I wired 4 X 10” subs @ 2 Ohms. so the amp is only doing 300 watts and won’t blow them. It sounds okay but is nothing close to 2 12” I just need to have a few days off so that I can build a box for the new 12’s as they will not fit in the box I had for the other 12’s Glad I have been working a lot of overtime.

[poisoned10]

I got the Avalanche which already has a 6-disc changer and Bose speakers so I'm not going to be keeping any of my equipment.

Details below.


Originally posted by poisoned10
I may be trading in the Impala for an Avalanche and my sub is too big to fit under a seat, so I'm going to be selling ALL of my equipment.

I have:

1 - JL Audio 13w6v2 (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=18) sub in a custom box built by Performance Audio in Tyler.

1 - Phoenix Gold Octane 8.0.1 Mono Amp (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_1491_Phoenix+Gold+R8.0-1.html)

1 - Rockford Fosgate Capacitor (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/photos/CPCD10-03_1_m.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp%3Fitem_id%3D83331%26locale%3De n_US&usg=__eH798mG6A61s9tsmFhP90ZzTZvY=&h=220&w=260&sz=16&hl=en&start=10&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=_DDy2eETwGwulM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=112&prev=/images%3Fq%3Drockford%2Bfosgate%2Bcap%26um%3D1%26h l%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1)

1 - Innovatek CD/DVD Player w/5 inch Touchscreen (http://innovatek.cn/products/all-in-one/IN-5300BTS/IN-5300BTS.htm)

The wiring and a custom box built by Performance Audio in Tyler will be included.

PM me if you might be interested or want more information and/or pictures.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by tex_male
I had a Phoenix Gold 500.1 pushing 2 10W1V2 @ 2 Ohms. Until one day I got tired of seeing my old pair of JL12W3V2 sitting on the shelf without a box, I bought a box for them and forgot the amp was 2 Ohm stable and wired them @ 1 Ohm fried the amp. So I bought a VR600D 600 watts @ 1 Ohm and hooked up the 2 JL12W3V2 which are rated for max 250 watts I thought I had the Amp cut back but 2 days later I had 2 blown subs. So to get me by until my new pair of JL12W6V2 got here I wired 4 X 10” subs @ 2 Ohms. so the amp is only doing 300 watts and won’t blow them. It sounds okay but is nothing close to 2 12” I just need to have a few days off so that I can build a box for the new 12’s as they will not fit in the box I had for the other 12’s Glad I have been working a lot of overtime.
Good luck. Sounds like you're close. And sounds like Poisoned10 can help you out with a W6.

[poisoned10]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
And sounds like Poisoned10 can help you out with a W6.


Absolutely!