Mavs vs. Spurs

[Farmersfan]

Apparently the NBA has decided who they want to win this series. The refs are calling nothing on the Spurs.

[coach]

thats what i was thinking

[coach]

seriously the spurs are hacking the mavs all over the place

[Farmersfan]

8 friggin points in the 1st quarter for the Mavs. An elimination game in the 1st round of the playoffs and the Mavs bring THIS to the floor. Of course it isn't helped by the fact that the Spurs hammer Dirk with no call and then Parker gets touch fouls on the other end......

[coach]

pop is doing a great job of slowing down the mavs offense and forcing them into a half court team

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by coach
pop is doing a great job of slowing down the mavs offense and forcing them into a half court team



It's easy to do when they are being allowed to manhandle the Mavs.

And Dirk just showed what he is made of. He takes this crap with a whimper and goes to the bench.........

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by coach
pop is doing a great job of slowing down the mavs offense and forcing them into a half court team



The Mavs are slowing down the Mavs!

[coach]

13 free throws to 0

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by coach
13 free throws to 0



This effort from the Mavs is worst than games 2,3 or 4! How is this possible for an elimination game???

[Farmersfan]

I'm out! Last straw for me with these Mavs. I'm going to go mow the lawn.

[SintonFan]

The Mavs will make it a game in the second half. But I bet the Spurs will match their intensity.:cool:

[Farmersfan]

Wow! Mowed the back yard and cleaned the boat and come back in and the Mavs have cut it to 5 points. What a bunch hot and cold morons these guys are. could they possibly win this thing after playing this poorly?

[Farmersfan]

Ten straight seasons of 50+ wins and 3 1st round exits in last 4 years! It's time to clean house.

[Emerson1]

Roddy looked like he was about to kill someone walking back to the locker room

[Emerson1]

Roddy finishes +10. Terry finishes -15

[Emerson1]

Gina Miller is why women are looked down upon in the workplace

[coach]

im ready to see terry and dampier go

[coach]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Ten straight seasons of 50+ wins and 3 1st round exits in last 4 years! It's time to clean house.

not yet when this crop of free agents coming out

[Gobbler Fan]

Hard to beat the " been there done that " mentality in the playoffs . The Spurs earned this series ....Go Spurs Go :clap:

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by coach
im ready to see terry and dampier go
No one is going to take Terry's huge contract unless Dallas gives them Damp's expiring and another decent expiring.

[coach]

emerson ill meet you in dallas wecan take care of terry and damp real quick if you want to

[Emerson1]

Dirk should just opt out and go sign with LJ and the Knicks

[bandera7]

What a fun series. Even in the loss, Dirk always wows me with his shooting ability. Ive been a Spurs fan my whole life and Dirk Nowitzki, he does some special things. Still, have to think maybe they need to bring in some guys that have "it", because at this point in his career it appears maybe Dirk just needs some help when its big game time.

[SintonPirateFan]

let me start off by saying i hate the mavs. i also didn't watch the game. 31 freethrows to 15 is quite a disparity. i think when you have an owner as polarizing as cuban its easy for the refs to be biased against his team (even if they don't realize they are doing it.) i'm not all about the conspiracy theorists that think the nba is like wwe, but its crazy to see a team dominate the regular season so often, only to flake out in the first round.

[Emerson1]

Terry really needs a change of scenery. He would fit nicely with an eastern conference team

[coach]

terry would fit nicey anywhere but in dallas...im tired of looking at him......also i would not mind if dallas tried to sign chris bosh or joe johnson

[3afan]

or dwade

[Farmersfan]

I heard talk radio discussing the Cuban impact on the refs AND on his own players. They felt that Cuban's constant bitching about the refs has pretty much built in an excuse for the core players of the Mavs. I personally think this team is a great regular season team because the games are called tighter and teams don't get as physical. Once the physical play starts, the core players are at a disadvantage. Dirk, Terry and Kidd aren't physical players. As great as Dirk is at some things, he is still the weakest player in the league and he plays Power Forward which is suppose to be your most aggressive and defensive player. It's a combination the Mavs have never been able to overcome. Do the Mavs let Dirk walk? Sign and trade? Try to keep him?

[jason]

dirk is on schedule to make $21 million next year....

he's not going anywhere.....

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by jason
dirk is on schedule to make $21 million next year....

he's not going anywhere.....





Does anybody on here think he is worth 21 million? If the Mavs have to bring in a Dwade or Bosh to get him over the hump then I don't think he is a 21 million a year player. Will another team try to match that offer? I seriously doubt that!

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by jason
dirk is on schedule to make $21 million next year....

he's not going anywhere.....
He can opt out. A lot of talk all season of him opting out and resigning for a low amount.

He can afford to, he has made $145 million over his career.



Originally posted by Farmersfan
Does anybody on here think he is worth 21 million? If the Mavs have to bring in a Dwade or Bosh to get him over the hump then I don't think he is a 21 million a year player. Will another team try to match that offer? I seriously doubt that!
He is the 6th highest paid player right now and makes less then Shaq, Tmac and Jermain O'Neal. So there is a lot lot lot worse out there

[Maroon87]

Woo hoo!!! Spurs baby!!:clap:

Gotta give the Mavs credit...they could've rolled over down 22 but they came back. They do have a lot of heart, but they're too talented to continue putting themselves in those kinds of predicaments. That Beaubois kid was unstoppable...not sure why he wasn't playing more in the 4th qtr.:thinking:

Gotta give :2thumbsup to George Hill and Antonio McDyess. They both hit some huge shots down the stretch and McDyess did a really good job on Dirk late, especially since he had 5 fouls.

As for Cuban, I do feel he is a distraction to the Mavs. Dirk said as much after the 2006 Finals loss. He did them no favors with his "I hate the Spurs" blast after Game 1. Not much went right for them the rest of the series.

So now it's on to Phoenix yet again, and I don't think the intensity will be any lower this time around.

Fade to Black, baby...:cool:

[icu812]

Originally posted by Maroon87
That Beaubois kid was unstoppable...not sure why he wasn't playing more in the 4th qtr.:thinking:

Gotta give :2thumbsup to George Hill and Antonio McDyess. They both hit some huge shots down the stretch and McDyess did a really good job on Dirk late, especially since he had 5 fouls.

As for Cuban, I do feel he is a distraction to the Mavs. Dirk said as much after the 2006 Finals loss. He did them no favors with his "I hate the Spurs" blast after Game 1. Not much went right for them the rest of the series.

So now it's on to Phoenix yet again, and I don't think the intensity will be any lower this time around.

Fade to Black, baby...:cool:

RC should have been playing Roddy B. all year to prep him for the playoffs. Instead he DNP in about 1/2 the games. The rook is the 2nd best scorer on the team. Roddy averaged over 40% for 3, 80% from the line and 50% from the floor on the season. 1st Rookie to ever do that and he certainly plays better D than JJ Barea. RC has a man crush on JJ. Both those guys need to go.

Spurs just had more players who can defend and score. When JJ or J.Terry is on the floor with Dirk it really hurts the Mavs because none of these guys can defend.

Cuban isn't a distraction for the players but he does hurt the team because it's obvious the NBA/Refs don't do his team any favors.

I also think the NBA should look into calling tech's on players who flop. Refs should go the replay and if no significant contact was made T them up. Who wants to see great players flopping around. It would make the NBA game so much better.

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by icu812
RC should have been playing Roddy B. all year to prep him for the playoffs. Instead he DNP in about 1/2 the games. The rook is the 2nd best scorer on the team. Roddy averaged over 40% for 3, 80% from the line and 50% from the floor on the season. 1st Rookie to ever do that and he certainly plays better D than JJ Barea. RC has a man crush on JJ. Both those guys need to go.

TXA 21 showed a stat. It was something like versus playoff teams his stats sucked, and non playoff teams he was amazing.

I see why RC wouldn't want him to play in game 1 when everything was going right. But in game 3, when the Mavs scored 11 in the 3rd he should have been put in.

[zebrablue2]

Originally posted by icu812
RC should have been playing Roddy B. all year to prep him for the playoffs. Instead he DNP in about 1/2 the games. The rook is the 2nd best scorer on the team. Roddy averaged over 40% for 3, 80% from the line and 50% from the floor on the season. 1st Rookie to ever do that and he certainly plays better D than JJ Barea. RC has a man crush on JJ. Both those guys need to go.

Spurs just had more players who can defend and score. When JJ or J.Terry is on the floor with Dirk it really hurts the Mavs because none of these guys can defend.

Cuban isn't a distraction for the players but he does hurt the team because it's obvious the NBA/Refs don't do his team any favors.

I also think the NBA should look into calling tech's on players who flop. Refs should go the replay and if no significant contact was made T them up. Who wants to see great players flopping around. It would make the NBA game so much better.


going to replay 8-10 times a game would only slow it down more. just send the refs to flop school, oh wait, they have already attended:Dnever mind..

[icu812]

Originally posted by Emerson1
TXA 21 showed a stat. It was something like versus playoff teams his stats sucked, and non playoff teams he was amazing.

I see why RC wouldn't want him to play in game 1 when everything was going right. But in game 3, when the Mavs scored 11 in the 3rd he should have been put in.

It's that he didn't have any stats versus playoff teams not because his stats sucked. RC didn't play him. He scored 7.1 points per game in 12.5 minutes per game. He shot 51.8 percent from the floor, 40.9 from the arc and 80.8 from the line. When his minutes increased so did his scoring including dropping 40 on GS. A good example of RC questionable decision making regarding his playing time was Roddy's first NBA start against the Hornets. He scored the first nine points of the game for the Mavs and was 4 of 6 from the floor. Played a total of 14 minutes and the Mavs lost in OT.


After the game last night even Jason Terry seemed to question RC's decision not to get Roddy minutes in this series. He said "It was the same thing he did all year. The kid can play. Whether he was out there or not, that's another story."

From Brendan Haywood: "I've seen a lot of rookies break mentally around this time and nothing breaks this kid and he has no fear. He's going to be a great player."

From Dirk Nowitzki: "Man, if he keeps improving and stays humble, he's going to be fun to watch for a long, long time.’’

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by icu812
It's that he didn't have any stats versus playoff teams not because his stats sucked. RC didn't play him. He scored 7.1 points per game in 12.5 minutes per game. He shot 51.8 percent from the floor, 40.9 from the arc and 80.8 from the line. When his minutes increased so did his scoring including dropping 40 on GS. A good example of RC questionable decision making regarding his playing time was Roddy's first NBA start against the Hornets. He scored the first nine points of the game for the Mavs and was 4 of 6 from the floor. Played a total of 14 minutes and the Mavs lost in OT.


After the game last night even Jason Terry seemed to question RC's decision not to get Roddy minutes in this series. He said "It was the same thing he did all year. The kid can play. Whether he was out there or not, that's another story."

From Brendan Haywood: "I've seen a lot of rookies break mentally around this time and nothing breaks this kid and he has no fear. He's going to be a great player."

From Dirk Nowitzki: "Man, if he keeps improving and stays humble, he's going to be fun to watch for a long, long time.’’

I think that might be the one big "what if" with this Mavs team: too many good players and not enough minutes to go around, much like the Trailblazers of 10 years ago.

FWIW...I think Dirk is an absolute stud offensively, one of the best scorers of his era. Every time he goes up for a shot, I fully expect it to go in. I think he's done everything the Mavs have asked...now it's time for the franchise to step up. Just my $.02...:)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Maroon87

FWIW...I think Dirk is an absolute stud offensively, one of the best scorers of his era. Every time he goes up for a shot, I fully expect it to go in. I think he's done everything the Mavs have asked...now it's time for the franchise to step up. Just my $.02...:)

I totally agree.
The problem with the home fans is not that Dirk shoots 12-22, it's that he DIDN'T shoot 22-22.
He also has to have 15 rebounds, 10 assist and 5 blocks each game.:doh:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by SintonFan
I totally agree.
The problem with the home fans is not that Dirk shoots 12-22, it's that he DIDN'T shoot 22-22.
He also has to have 15 rebounds, 10 assist and 5 blocks each game.:doh:

Ok ok... many home fans.:nerd:

[Emerson1]

Originally posted by icu812


After the game last night even Jason Terry seemed to question RC's decision not to get Roddy minutes in this series. He said "It was the same thing he did all year. The kid can play. Whether he was out there or not, that's another story."

JT had no problem stealing those minutes though.

[Maroon87]

Originally posted by Emerson1
JT had no problem stealing those minutes though.

Don't get me started on "the Jet"...I'm not a fan.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by SintonFan
I totally agree.
The problem with the home fans is not that Dirk shoots 12-22, it's that he DIDN'T shoot 22-22.
He also has to have 15 rebounds, 10 assist and 5 blocks each game.:doh:




There is only one thing that separates Dirk from the other top 25 players in the league.........................It's a little thing known as DEFENSE!!!!!! Give him a 10 on offense and a 1 on defense. In my book that averages to barely a 5! Maybe the Mavs can start playing the old girls style 6 person BB where Dirk can stay on one end of the court..............

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
There is only one thing that separates Dirk from the other top 25 players in the league.........................It's a little thing known as DEFENSE!!!!!! Give him a 10 on offense and a 1 on defense. In my book that averages to barely a 5! Maybe the Mavs can start playing the old girls style 6 person BB where Dirk can stay on one end of the court..............


who is this top 25 that you talk of? I know two players in the top 25 who are worse defensively than Dirk right now and that is off the top of my head. So I need your top 25 to compare

[eagles_victory]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
who is this top 25 that you talk of? I know two players in the top 25 who are worse defensively than Dirk right now and that is off the top of my head. So I need your top 25 to compare Nash? and who else lol

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
There is only one thing that separates Dirk from the other top 25 players in the league.........................It's a little thing known as DEFENSE!!!!!! Give him a 10 on offense and a 1 on defense. In my book that averages to barely a 5! Maybe the Mavs can start playing the old girls style 6 person BB where Dirk can stay on one end of the court..............
You can't just take someone's defense, give it a number, then take their offense, give that a number, and quantify a player's worth on that system.

Certain players are so unstoppable on one side of the ball that it more than makes up for their inadequacies on the other side of the ball.

Think about it this way, replace Dirk with Amare Stoudemire at PF, an All-Star in his own right. Amare's defensive game is an 8, his offensive game is a 6 (stems mostly from his athletic ability on putbacks and fast break opportunities, not his ability to create his own shot like Dirk or Duncan). That would give Amare a 7 on this imaginary scale. Would Dallas have ever been a 67-win team with a starting lineup of Dampier, Amare, Josh Howard, Jet, and Devin Harris?

No way.

You can't quantify Dirk's effect on a team like that. Just like you can't quantify Shane Battier or Bill Russell's effect on a team like that.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
who is this top 25 that you talk of? I know two players in the top 25 who are worse defensively than Dirk right now and that is off the top of my head. So I need your top 25 to compare



Not a complete list and several are interchangeable:

Kobe
Labron
Garnett
Wade
Paul
Howard
Duncan
Anthony
Roy
Williams
Nowitzki
Bosh
Gasol
Stoudmire
Artest
Ming
Nash
Peirce
Parker
J. Johnson
Ginobli
Rose
Allen
Durant
Billups


ONLY Steve Nash is pretty weak defensively and he can usually hold his own with average players. Dirk cannot!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
You can't just take someone's defense, give it a number, then take their offense, give that a number, and quantify a player's worth on that system.

Certain players are so unstoppable on one side of the ball that it more than makes up for their inadequacies on the other side of the ball.

Think about it this way, replace Dirk with Amare Stoudemire at PF, an All-Star in his own right. Amare's defensive game is an 8, his offensive game is a 6 (stems mostly from his athletic ability on putbacks and fast break opportunities, not his ability to create his own shot like Dirk or Duncan). That would give Amare a 7 on this imaginary scale. Would Dallas have ever been a 67-win team with a starting lineup of Dampier, Amare, Josh Howard, Jet, and Devin Harris?

No way.

You can't quantify Dirk's effect on a team like that. Just like you can't quantify Shane Battier or Bill Russell's effect on a team like that.




Stoudemire and Dirk aren't even in the same league on offense. But the gap between them on defense is much bigger than the offensive gap. And we can't compare the two because Dirk IS the offensive power house and can make his own shot. Stoudemire is only 1 half of a Nash/Stoudemire machine. Without Nash he isn't even close to being a allstar. For a more accurate analogy we need to compare Dirk to a Paul Peirce, Dewight Howard, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant or other PF that actually fill the sterotypical powerforward role on their team. Dirk redefines it. Not all bad except the playoff failings for his career should tell us something is missing!!!!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Not all bad except the playoff failings for his career should tell us something is missing!!!!

yea what is missing is a true sidekick. He has never had that.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Stoudemire and Dirk aren't even in the same league on offense. But the gap between them on defense is much bigger than the offensive gap. And we can't compare the two because Dirk IS the offensive power house and can make his own shot. Stoudemire is only 1 half of a Nash/Stoudemire machine. Without Nash he isn't even close to being a allstar. For a more accurate analogy we need to compare Dirk to a Paul Peirce, Dewight Howard, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant or other PF that actually fill the sterotypical powerforward role on their team. Dirk redefines it. Not all bad except the playoff failings for his career should tell us something is missing!!!!
I'd agree with all of that, except I wouldn't put Dwight anywhere above a 6 on the offensive "scale," although he's a 10 on defense and rebounding.

Basically, Dwight's David Robinson without the complete offensive arsenal. But, like Dirk, he did lead that team to a Finals appearance.

And remember, Wilt the Stilt (considered by most to be the NBA's most talented player of all-time) didn't win an NBA title until the Sixers brought in Billy Cunningham to complement him, Hal Greer, and Chet Walker. When he finally got his second title, it was on one of the best teams of all-time, a team that included him, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich.

Nobody will ever confuse Dirk with Wilt, but he'd still get it done with a proper supporting cast.

[charlesrixey]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'd agree with all of that, except I wouldn't put Dwight anywhere above a 6 on the offensive "scale," although he's a 10 on defense and rebounding.

Basically, Dwight's David Robinson without the complete offensive arsenal. But, like Dirk, he did lead that team to a Finals appearance.

And remember, Wilt the Stilt (considered by most to be the NBA's most talented player of all-time) didn't win an NBA title until the Sixers brought in Billy Cunningham to complement him, Hal Greer, and Chet Walker. When he finally got his second title, it was on one of the best teams of all-time, a team that included him, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich.

Nobody will ever confuse Dirk with Wilt, but he'd still get it done with a proper supporting cast.

+1

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'd agree with all of that, except I wouldn't put Dwight anywhere above a 6 on the offensive "scale," although he's a 10 on defense and rebounding.

Basically, Dwight's David Robinson without the complete offensive arsenal. But, like Dirk, he did lead that team to a Finals appearance.

And remember, Wilt the Stilt (considered by most to be the NBA's most talented player of all-time) didn't win an NBA title until the Sixers brought in Billy Cunningham to complement him, Hal Greer, and Chet Walker. When he finally got his second title, it was on one of the best teams of all-time, a team that included him, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, and Gail Goodrich.

Nobody will ever confuse Dirk with Wilt, but he'd still get it done with a proper supporting cast.



We are discussing "and's, if's or but's" here BDR! IF Dirk gets some help and wins a title he will undoubtedly go down as one of the best offensive PFs to ever play the game. But if he doesn't get help he will have a legacy of being a weak powerforward that disappears at the most cruicial times. (whether earned or not). Game 5 against Spurs is a perfect examply. Mavs have 8 total points in the 1st quarter and Dirk doesn't have half that. The Mavs must come from 22 points behind to overcome a disappeared superstar for the entire first half. Dirk was primarily the reason they finally made it a game but without his disappearing act in the first half they don't have to expend so much energy. Golden State put the clamps on Dirk in their series and ran the Mavs out of the building. And so on and so on!!!!
And again I repeat that where there's smoke there's fire! We don't hear these arguements about the other powerforwards in the league. So essentially Dirk has earned the speculation that he is weak and can't get it done............Same as Romo! (even if it isn't true)

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
We are discussing "and's, if's or but's" here BDR! IF Dirk gets some help and wins a title he will undoubtedly go down as one of the best offensive PFs to ever play the game. But if he doesn't get help he will have a legacy of being a weak powerforward that disappears at the most cruicial times. (whether earned or not). Game 5 against Spurs is a perfect examply. Mavs have 8 total points in the 1st quarter and Dirk doesn't have half that. The Mavs must come from 22 points behind to overcome a disappeared superstar for the entire first half. Dirk was primarily the reason they finally made it a game but without his disappearing act in the first half they don't have to expend so much energy. Golden State put the clamps on Dirk in their series and ran the Mavs out of the building. And so on and so on!!!!
And again I repeat that where there's smoke there's fire! We don't hear these arguements about the other powerforwards in the league. So essentially Dirk has earned the speculation that he is weak and can't get it done............Same as Romo! (even if it isn't true)
Sometimes the "ifs" are important. If Jordan didn't have Pipp, it's doubtful he'd have won an NBA title.