Earth Day

[Trashman]

"George Carlin's "The Planet Is Fine"

We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these f***ing people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the f***ing planet?

I'm getting tired of that s***. Tired of that s***. I'm tired of f***ing Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a s*** about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are f***ed. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your s***, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

[LE Dad]

I miss George Carlin, he was a truly funny man.:(

[Reds fan]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I miss George Carlin, he was a truly funny man.:(


:ditto:

[buckeyebob]

Earth Day was originally launched by Ira Einhorn in Philladelphia as a catalyst for global change. Read a few things about this guy & his associates. He even has a tie-in to Tyler. Really scarry.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by buckeyebob
Earth Day was originally launched by Ira Einhorn in Philladelphia as a catalyst for global change. Read a few things about this guy & his associates. He even has a tie-in to Tyler. Really scarry.

I did not know that. Didn't he kill some folks?




BEAST

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BEAST
I did not know that. Didn't he kill some folks?




BEAST

Ira Samuel Einhorn, a.k.a. "The Unicorn Killer" (born May 15, 1940), is a former American activist of the 1960s and 1970s who is now serving a life sentence for his 1977 murder of Holly Maddux.

[buckeyebob]

You won't find Ira Einhorn's name listed in any of the Earth Day promotional literature, as the organizers have taken great pains to distance themselves from this man, at least since he became better known for composting his girlfriend in a trunk in his closet for a couple of years in the late 1970s.
Earth Day organizers and publicists don't want to have anything to do with Ira these days. Since he was convicted of murder, he hasn't been very useful to them. But that wasn't always the case. In 1970, during the first Earth Day event, which was televised throughout the globe, Ira Einhorn was on stage as master of ceremonies.
A friend and contemporary of Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, and acquaintance of authors Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsburg, Timothy Leary, Alvin Toffler, and Isaac Asimov (what a crew), Einhorn held the floor for a half hour, during the first Earth Day celebration, in Philadelphia.
The battered and partly mummified body of Holly Maddux, a pretty, young girl from Tyler, was found in a trunk in his bedroom closet, packed in styrofoam, newspaper, and air fresheners.
Arrested, Einhorn's attorney, Arlen Spector (we still have him), was considering a run for the Senate. The darling of New Age society, politicians, Ivy League professors, and corporate executives alike, Einhorn had no shortage of friends during his bail hearing. With his great love for the earth, surely Ira would not have murdered anyone. With pleadings from Spector, then released on a mere $40,000 bail, of which he had to pay only $4,000, Einhorn fled to Sweden, remaining as a fugitive in Europe until 1997, when he was found living in France under another name.
While a fugitive, Einhorn was convicted in absentia in 1993, and sentenced to life in prison. The government of France, however, refused to extradite Einhorn unless the death penalty was taken off the table and he was promised a new trial. Eventually, this was agreed upon. Ira Einhorn, the founder of Earth Day, was once again convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison, where he remains today.
While it is likely that Einhorn's violent history is not shared by other Earth Day founders, the observance is nevertheless bizarre.
Underlying the themes of Earth Day is a call for mankind to align itself with nature, and against itself, enlisting human beings to take part in a battle that seeks to place humanity under the control of an enlightened elite, one that values the interests of nature above that of people.

[Blue42]

Yeah and if you want to make some money off the Earth Day tree huggers just put green or environmentally friendly on any thing you sell even if its toxic.

[Black_Magic]

for all you folks who bash the government.. Intresting..:thinking:

Originally Posted by KerryB
I am a conservative. I am against any form of Government Healthcare Option & would also like the Government to stay out of my life.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its
valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/766278-conservative-hypocrisy-3.html#ixzz0mDrKWAkU

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
for all you folks who bash the government.. Intresting..:thinking:

Originally Posted by KerryB
I am a conservative. I am against any form of Government Healthcare Option & would also like the Government to stay out of my life.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its
valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/766278-conservative-hypocrisy-3.html#ixzz0mDrKWAkU Between local government (the kind the founders promoted: See the 10th amendment) and the free market all of this would be and should be provided by those outside the federal government.

Food for thought...

[Trashman]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
for all you folks who bash the government.. Intresting..:thinking:

Originally Posted by KerryB
I am a conservative. I am against any form of Government Healthcare Option & would also like the Government to stay out of my life.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its
valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/766278-conservative-hypocrisy-3.html#ixzz0mDrKWAkU


You are so making the point of the anti-government crowd.:spitlol:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
for all you folks who bash the government.. Intresting..:thinking:

Originally Posted by KerryB
I am a conservative. I am against any form of Government Healthcare Option & would also like the Government to stay out of my life.

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the U.S. Department of Energy.

I then took a shower in the clean water provided by a municipal water utility.

After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like, using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

I watched this while eating my breakfast of U.S. Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time, as regulated by the U.S. Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level
determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank.

On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the U.S. Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the Department of Labor and the Occupational Safety and Health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to my house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its
valuables thanks to the local police department.

And then I log on to the internet -- which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration -- and post on Freerepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.



Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/766278-conservative-hypocrisy-3.html#ixzz0mDrKWAkU Laughable:doh: Truly laughable.:rolleyes: :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Laughable:doh: Truly laughable.:rolleyes: :D

How is that laughable? It's the truth that people don't want to admit to and see for what it is. And that in itself is laughable.

If these were provided by the private sector, what is going to prevent them from running them like they do any business? Which is, for those of you who are ignorant, give as little as your can and charge as much as people will pay. That's why we're in the situation we are in healthcare, with 40,000,000 people uninsured due to inability to pay and pre-existing conditions. :hand:

Great post Black_Magic

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Trashman
You are so making the point of the anti-government crowd.:spitlol:

Without the bureaucracy the wheels that turn and run our country would come to a grinding halt and we would have nothing. What most of you don't realize is that the bureaucracy employs 10 times the number of people at the state level than it does at the federal level, but they are all funded with federal dollars, and the state bureaucracy is growing at a much faster rate than on the federal level (which has only about 12% of the total number of employees actually working in Washington D.C.), so maybe the anti-government crowd should become a little more well-informed before it throws more Tea Parties.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
How is that laughable? It's the truth that people don't want to admit to and see for what it is. And that in itself is laughable.

If these were provided by the private sector, what is going to prevent them from running them like they do any business? Which is, for those of you who are ignorant, give as little as your can and charge as much as people will pay. That's why we're in the situation we are in healthcare, with 40,000,000 people uninsured due to inability to pay and pre-existing conditions. :hand:

Great post Black_Magic It is laughable that someone would post that stating that they were a conservative.

No need to involve the federal government, state and local level would be sufficent, and please show me where it is not private insurance companies that will be providing coverage? Please show me health care at all, the only thing I see thus far is insurance. This coverage could have unaffordable co pays or other restrictions that will still deny people care.
So, let me get this right you are against making a profit?? That is what provides jobs. The more profit my offices make the more I reinvest in advertizing, building upgrades and employees.


Stick to posting on licking kittens or whatever.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
It is laughable that someone would post that stating that they were a conservative.

No need to involve the federal government, state and local level would be sufficent, and please show me where it is not private insurance companies that will be providing coverage? Please show me health care at all, the only thing I see thus far is insurance. This coverage could have unaffordable co pays or other restrictions that will still deny people care.
So, let me get this right you are against making a profit?? That is what provides jobs. The more profit my offices make the more I reinvest in advertizing, building upgrades and employees.


Stick to posting on licking kittens or whatever.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
It is laughable that someone would post that stating that they were a conservative.

No need to involve the federal government, state and local level would be suffecient, and please show me where it is not private insurance companies that will be providing coverage? Please show me health care at all, the only thing I see thus far is insurance. This coverage could have unaffordable co pays or other restrictions that will still deny people care.
So, let me get this right you are against making a profit?? That is what provides jobs. The more profit my offices make the more I reinvest in advertizing, building upgrades and employees.


Stick to posting on licking kittens or whatever.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Who posted that saying they were a Conservative?

I'm not against profit, but I am against greed that results in citizens lacking the ability to receive the healthcare that they need. Which is to be provided by the insurance and the new healthcare bill that was passed. And you use your money to reinvest in your business, but HMOs use it to find ways to deny coverage to more people. They're ruthless and selfish, simple as that. You wouldn't deny food from your kids because they had Leukemia would you?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Without the bureaucracy the wheels that turn and run our country would come to a grinding halt and we would have nothing. What most of you don't realize is that the bureaucracy employs 10 times the number of people at the state level than it does at the federal level, but they are all funded with federal dollars, and the state bureaucracy is growing at a much faster rate than on the federal level (which has only about 12% of the total number of employees actually working in Washington D.C.), so maybe the anti-government crowd should become a little more well-informed before it throws more Tea Parties. Federal dollars?? Those are tax dollars produced by buisnesses that make a profit. Those dollars would and could be distributed just as easily to State government where it easier for the people to have a say in how those dollars are spent.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
for all you folks who bash the government.. Intresting..:thinking:

Originally Posted by KerryB
I am a conservative. I am against any form of Government Healthcare Option & would also like the Government to stay out of my life.


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/766278-conservative-hypocrisy-3.html#ixzz0mDrKWAkU :dispntd: :dispntd:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Who posted that saying they were a Conservative?

I'm not against profit, but I am against greed that results in citizens lacking the ability to receive the healthcare that they need. Which is to be provided by the insurance and the new healthcare bill that was passed. And you use your money to reinvest in your business, but HMOs use it to find ways to deny coverage to more people. They're ruthless and selfish, simple as that. You wouldn't deny food from your kids because they had Leukemia would you? So now we are rewarding these greedy insurance companies by giving them contol over even more lives.:thinking:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
So now we are rewarding these greedy insurance companies by giving them contol over even more lives.:thinking:

GREED is what has gotten us where we are now!:(

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
GREED is what has gotten us where we are now!:( Yes it is, and now are going to get even more of it shoved down our throats with a government mandate. I am sure we will see loopholes, maximum benefit, copay and lots of other restrictions that will keep this insurance from becoming actual care.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Yes it is, and now are going to get even more of it shoved down our throats with a government mandate. I am sure we will see loopholes, maximum benefit, copay and lots of other restrictions that will keep this insurance from becoming actual care.
Don't blame liberals, it was a Republican/Conservative brainchild of the 90s pushed by a Democrat in this decade. Most liberal my butt, tell me Corporate influence doesn't exist when you can buy anyone, no matter the party.

[Trashman]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Without the bureaucracy the wheels that turn and run our country would come to a grinding halt and we would have nothing. What most of you don't realize is that the bureaucracy employs 10 times the number of people at the state level than it does at the federal level, but they are all funded with federal dollars, and the state bureaucracy is growing at a much faster rate than on the federal level (which has only about 12% of the total number of employees actually working in Washington D.C.), so maybe the anti-government crowd should become a little more well-informed before it throws more Tea Parties.

The only reason state government is growing faster than the fed is because of federal mandates to the state. Either start (insert name of fed program here) or you will get no federal money.:hand:

[garciap77]

We are hopeless!:( The end is near!:(

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Trashman
The only reason state government is growing faster than the fed is because of federal mandates to the state. Either start (insert name of fed program here) or you will get no federal money.:hand: yeah, wouldn't have anything to do with those state Senators and Congressman lobbying for expenditures in their districts and states! lmao Sort of like Newt in the 90s railing against social welfare while his district was one of the top beneficiaries of pork expenditures and corporate subsidy.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
We are hopeless!:( The end is near!:( 2012:confused: :confused:

I saw it on the DL... It must be true.:D

[SintonPirateFan]

:wave: :wave: :wave: :twitch: :wave: :wave:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LE Dad
2012:confused: :confused:

I saw it on the DL... It must be true.:D

Most of the Mayan descendents today must think we're crazy! lol Their galactic time is mostly about rebirth. Mix that with linear minded, cataclysmic, monotheistic religions out of the middle east and you get PANIC!!!! haha :D

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
2012:confused: :confused:

I saw it on the DL... It must be true.:D


Earthquake in Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/19010398.jpg

:D




;)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by garciap77
Earthquake in Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/19010398.jpg

:D




;)
Man, some hillbilly was probably playing with some cherry bombs in Agua Dulce. :D

[garciap77]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Most of the Mayan descendents today must think we're crazy! lol Their galactic time is mostly about rebirth. Mix that with linear minded, cataclysmic, monotheistic religions out of the middle east and you get PANIC!!!! haha :D

The Health Care is coming!!!!! The Health Care is coming!!!!!:D








;)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by garciap77
The Health Care is coming!!!!! The Health Care is coming!!!!!:D








;)
oh noes! :eek:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Man, some hillbilly was probably playing with some cherry bombs in Agua Dulce. :D

I thought it was closer to Alice, than Abilene! I did not know Sweetwater had any Hillbilies, I thought they were in Synder!:D





;)

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
Earthquake in Alice!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/garciap77/19010398.jpg

:D




;) Hmmmm.:thinking:

[Trashman]

Originally posted by DDBooger
yeah, wouldn't have anything to do with those state Senators and Congressman lobbying for expenditures in their districts and states! lmao Sort of like Newt in the 90s railing against social welfare while his district was one of the top beneficiaries of pork expenditures and corporate subsidy.

That is why there needs to be term limits for anyone in elected office.:thinking:


and a limit on the number of hill billys in any one location.:D

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Trashman
That is why there needs to be term limits for anyone in elected office.:thinking: ;)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by garciap77
I thought it was closer to Alice, than Abilene! I did not know Sweetwater had any Hillbilies, I thought they were in Synder!:D





;) Heck man Calallen, Agua Dulce, Banquete, Orange Grove. All that area, lots of country folk.
Jeet yet?

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Trashman
That is why there needs to be term limits for anyone in elected office.:thinking:

And no lobbyist!:thinking:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by garciap77
And no lobbyist!:thinking: most importantly! Look at financial reform. Wall Street is spending 1 million per Senator lol

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
most importantly! Look at financial reform. Wall Street is spending 1 million per Senator lol


how bout financial reform on former senator/representative pensions?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by garciap77
And no lobbyist!:thinking: I thought we were promised no lobbyists by this administration?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I thought we were promised no lobbyists by this administration? If a politician promises you anything, get worried because just the opposite will happen. :rolleyes:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
How is that laughable? It's the truth that people don't want to admit to and see for what it is. And that in itself is laughable.

If these were provided by the private sector, what is going to prevent them from running them like they do any business? Which is, for those of you who are ignorant, give as little as your can and charge as much as people will pay. That's why we're in the situation we are in healthcare, with 40,000,000 people uninsured due to inability to pay and pre-existing conditions. :hand:

Great post Black_Magic
Thanks.. I saw that and it made me think of how hypocritical some can be. Many gripe about the government all the time and gripe about taxes constantly and then go home to all the realities of this statement. I thought that the statement left out some other government perks. It also left out the fact that the guy paid for the gas he purchased most likely by using a bank account that is guaranteed by the FDIC... Funny how these folks most likely send thier kids to public schools and then gripe about socialistic Ideas....:clap:

[SintonFan]

I don't celebrate Earth Day. It's a silly day.
Now if it was a holiday and everyone had a day off, I might plant a tree and bbq.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Thanks.. I saw that and it made me think of how hypocritical some can be. Many gripe about the government all the time and gripe about taxes constantly and then go home to all the realities of this statement. I thought that the statement left out some other government perks. It also left out the fact that the guy paid for the gas he purchased most likely by using a bank account that is guaranteed by the FDIC... Funny how these folks most likely send thier kids to public schools and then gripe about socialistic Ideas....:clap:

Yeah, public schools, oh no! You pay taxes even if you never use it, and you don't get to choose what teachers your children have or what school they get to go to! What a travesty!

[JasperDog94]

Did you know that the first Earth Day ever (April 22, 1970) was the 100th birthday of Vladimir Lenin? I'm just sayin'...

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, public schools, oh no! You pay taxes even if you never use it, and you don't get to choose what teachers your children have or what school they get to go to! What a travesty! And yet all we ever hear about is how the public schools are failing. :thinking: :thinking:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
And yet all we ever hear about is how the public schools are failing. :thinking: :thinking:

Yeah, because TAKS testing and standardized tests like it are ruining our education system.

[BEAST]

BBDE = Post Turtle.




BEAST

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BEAST
BBDE = Post Turtle.




BEAST

What's a post turtle?

[BEAST]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
What's a post turtle?

Oh ye learned one, I cant believe anyone as wise as you dont know what a post turtle is.




BEAST

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BEAST
Oh ye learned one, I cant believe anyone as wise as you dont know what a post turtle is.




BEAST

I'm not familiar with message board lingo. I fill my mind with important knowledge.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I'm not familiar with message board lingo. I fill my mind with important knowledge.


Not message board lingo. Ask Waterboy.




BEAST

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BEAST
Not message board lingo. Ask Waterboy.




BEAST

I looked it up. What makes me a post turtle?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BEAST
BBDE = Post Turtle.




BEAST :clap: :clap: :clap:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, because TAKS testing and standardized tests like it are ruining our education system. Education system was broken long before TAKS. It is not only here in Texas but nationwide. Our schools are becoming daycares and not places of learning. I have even heard a proposal for extending school hours and days, even to the point of year around school. This sounds like a great way to advance learning, right. No such luck, the rationale is that it will allow for parents to work longer hours without having to pay for daycare. I am sure this will produce more tax $$. You want to talk greed, look at DC. At least if an insurance company is greedy it won't keep my child seperated from me or want me to work longer hours.:thinking:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, because TAKS testing and standardized tests like it are ruining our education system. No argument here. We're teaching to the test because that is what every school district is judged by. It's a double edged sword. We need some way to determine student success but we've proven over the years that standardized testing (like TAKS, TEEKS, or whatever acronym you wish to insert here) only causes teachers to teach to the test.

Trust me when I say that I am in no way blaming teachers. This methodology comes from the top down. Teachers have little to no choice about what/how they teach. It is dictated to them from their administration and their administration gets their marching orders from the state.

It's royally messed up.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by LE Dad
...look at DC. I don't want to look at DC. They're more messed up than Texas. The one thing they had going for them was a voucher program that enabled parents to pull their kids from low performing schools and send them to another school. But our illustrious leader doesn't seem to think that's a good idea. Yeah, it's a much better idea to keep kids in low performing schools. That's going to give them a much better shot at making something of themselves in the real world.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
No argument here. We're teaching to the test because that is what every school district is judged by. It's a double edged sword. We need some way to determine student success but we've proven over the years that standardized testing (like TAKS, TEEKS, or whatever acronym you wish to insert here) only causes teachers to teach to the test.

Trust me when I say that I am in no way blaming teachers. This methodology comes from the top down. Teachers have little to no choice about what/how they teach. It is dictated to them from their administration and their administration gets their marching orders from the state.

It's royally messed up.

The TAKS tests are a joke. How students fail them is beyond me, and is kind of sad, just because of how easy they were when I took them.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The TAKS tests are a joke. How students fail them is beyond me, and is kind of sad, just because of how easy they were when I took them. I never struggled myself, but it's sad to see how much pressure we put on elementary school kids to pass one particular test.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I thought that the statement left out some other government perks. It also left out the fact that the guy paid for the gas he purchased most likely by using a bank account that is guaranteed by the FDIC... It also left out the 60-70 cents per gallon paid in taxes for every gallon he pumped into his car, which probably had a $3000 markup due to all of the government emmisions requirements. The average profit on a gallon of gas is 10 cents, and you wonder why gas stations went away... The only profit most stores get is from purchases made inside the store.


Perks=Taxes
Taxes=:(

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I never struggled myself, but it's sad to see how much pressure we put on elementary school kids to pass one particular test.

Your graduation from high school is contingent upon passing the TAKS test as well.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
and you don't get to choose what teachers your children have or what school they get to go to! What a travesty!

Since when can't you choose what school you go to?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
It also left out the 60-70 cents per gallon paid in taxes for every gallon he pumped into his car, which probably had a $3000 markup due to all of the government emmisions requirements. The average profit on a gallon of gas is 10 cents, and you wonder why gas stations went away... The only profit most stores get is from purchases made inside the store.


Perks=Taxes
Taxes=:(

Yeah, forget about having clean air. I personally love smog!

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The TAKS tests are a joke. How students fail them is beyond me, and is kind of sad, just because of how easy they were when I took them. Because kids are not learning anything. School is no longer for learning, but for watching children, as an alternative to daycare.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, forget about having clean air. I personally love smog! The emissions of a vehicle can contribute to smog regardless of emissions equipment. Most emissions are from older cars because people cannot afford to buy new ones. The people who can are unable to maintain the emissions equipment and when it malfunctions they simply disable it.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Pick6
Since when can't you choose what school you go to?

You have to pay to transfer your child.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You have to pay to transfer your child. Not here, Texas High and Liberty Eylau are both open districts.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You have to pay to transfer your child.

I don't pay a transfer fee. It's up to the school if they want to charge it or not. Most schools realize they will get money from the state and don't charge a transfer fee.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Pick6
I don't pay a transfer fee. It's up to the school if they want to charge it or not. Most schools realize they will get money from the state and don't charge a transfer fee.

In my area you do.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
In my area you do.

With all the imbreeding down there I can see why they try to keep people away :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Pick6
With all the imbreeding down there I can see why they try to keep people away :D

If your sister was as hott as mine you'd want to have sex with her too.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If your sister was as hott as mine you'd want to have sex with her too.


There's something wrong with inbreeding? damn.


Hey gary, you never answered the other day why you think I am gay? HAHA i am dying to know

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11



Hey gary, you never answered the other day why you think I am gay? He is just hopeful.:D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
There's something wrong with inbreeding? damn.


Hey gary, you never answered the other day why you think I am gay? HAHA i am dying to know

Your response to something I said sounded very homosexual.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Your response to something I said sounded very homosexual. Did it set off the gaydar?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Not here, Texas High and Liberty Eylau are both open districts.

Watch out!
BBDE might want to move there with yalls "openness" and all.:D

[Black_Magic]

Where is the Tea patry when it comes to the intrusive strong arm of the government of Arizona?

Why Aren’t Tea Partiers Protesting Arizona’s Big Government Overreach On Immigration?
Tea Party activists go out of their way to insist that they’re not partisan, racist, or filled with hate; they’re just patriots who want to stop a “socialist” government machine from controlling their daily lives.

The new immigration law in Arizona should be ripe for the Tea Parties to take up. SB-1070 is the “broadest and strictest immigration measure in generations,” giving police unprecedented power to detain anyone they suspect of being an undocumented immigrant and making “the failure to carry immigration documents a crime.” Even traditionally far-right figures like former Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee have worried that the law might lead to racial profiling abuses by the government.

But as the Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson notes, this Tea Party support hasn’t materialized:

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights — and supporters of sane governance — held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it. But where was the Tea Party crowd? Isn’t the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim — and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state — would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?

Not only are Tea Partiers not speaking out against SB-1070, they’re actively supporting it. The Arizona Tea Party Network called on its members to support Brewer’s big government. In fact, the sponsor of SB-1070 is state Sen. Russell Pearce (R), a Tea Party backer.

According to a new survey directed by University of Washington political scientist Christopher Parker, white Tea Partiers tend to be “predisposed to intolerance,” pointing to a possible reason the movement has been reluctant to join with immigration reform activists:

For instance, the Tea Party, the grassroots movement committed to reining in what they perceive as big government, and fiscal irresponsibility, also appear predisposed to intolerance. Approximately 45% of Whites either strongly or somewhat approve of the movement. Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy. Perceptions of Latinos aren’t much different. While 54% of White Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be hardworking, only 44% think them intelligent, and even fewer, 42% of Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be trustworthy. When it comes to gays and lesbians, White Tea Party supporters also hold negative attitudes. Only 36% think gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to adopt children, and just 17% are in favor of same-sex marriage.

Also, if Tea Partiers really do feel like they’ve been taxed enough already, they should support immigration reform. As Andrea Nill has reported, “In January, the Immigration Policy Center and the Center for American Progress found that legalizing undocumented immigrants through comprehensive immigration reform would generate $4.5 to $5.4 billion in additional net tax revenue within three years. The study predicted that ultimately the benefits of immigration reform would go beyond pure tax revenue and would yield at least $1.5 trillion in cumulative U.S. gross domestic product over 10 years.”

[garciap77]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I thought we were promised no lobbyists by this administration?

When was the last time an administration kept their promise? They say one thing and they do another!:mad:

Only thing administrations have done for this country is raise taxes and bigger government.:mad:

The rich keep getting richer and the middle class keeps getting smaller!:mad:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I'm not familiar with message board lingo. I fill my mind with important knowledge.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The TAKS tests are a joke. How students fail them is beyond me, and is kind of sad, just because of how easy they were when I took them.

It has not changed! My son came home from school yesterday and said, " TAKS was way too easy"!

[garciap77]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
If your sister was as hott as mine you'd want to have sex with her too.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
There's something wrong with inbreeding? damn.


Hey gary, you never answered the other day why you think I am gay? HAHA i am dying to know



What!!!! Daddy D 11 is gay???????:D





;)

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
What!!!! Daddy D 11 is gay???????:D





;) :eek: :eek: :eek:

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Where is the Tea patry when it comes to the intrusive strong arm of the government of Arizona?

Why Aren’t Tea Partiers Protesting Arizona’s Big Government Overreach On Immigration?
Tea Party activists go out of their way to insist that they’re not partisan, racist, or filled with hate; they’re just patriots who want to stop a “socialist” government machine from controlling their daily lives.

The new immigration law in Arizona should be ripe for the Tea Parties to take up. SB-1070 is the “broadest and strictest immigration measure in generations,” giving police unprecedented power to detain anyone they suspect of being an undocumented immigrant and making “the failure to carry immigration documents a crime.” Even traditionally far-right figures like former Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee have worried that the law might lead to racial profiling abuses by the government.

But as the Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson notes, this Tea Party support hasn’t materialized:

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights — and supporters of sane governance — held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it. But where was the Tea Party crowd? Isn’t the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim — and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state — would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?

Not only are Tea Partiers not speaking out against SB-1070, they’re actively supporting it. The Arizona Tea Party Network called on its members to support Brewer’s big government. In fact, the sponsor of SB-1070 is state Sen. Russell Pearce (R), a Tea Party backer.

According to a new survey directed by University of Washington political scientist Christopher Parker, white Tea Partiers tend to be “predisposed to intolerance,” pointing to a possible reason the movement has been reluctant to join with immigration reform activists:

For instance, the Tea Party, the grassroots movement committed to reining in what they perceive as big government, and fiscal irresponsibility, also appear predisposed to intolerance. Approximately 45% of Whites either strongly or somewhat approve of the movement. Of those, only 35% believe Blacks to be hardworking, only 45 % believe Blacks are intelligent, and only 41% think that Blacks are trustworthy. Perceptions of Latinos aren’t much different. While 54% of White Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be hardworking, only 44% think them intelligent, and even fewer, 42% of Tea Party supporters believe Latinos to be trustworthy. When it comes to gays and lesbians, White Tea Party supporters also hold negative attitudes. Only 36% think gay and lesbian couples should be allowed to adopt children, and just 17% are in favor of same-sex marriage.

Also, if Tea Partiers really do feel like they’ve been taxed enough already, they should support immigration reform. As Andrea Nill has reported, “In January, the Immigration Policy Center and the Center for American Progress found that legalizing undocumented immigrants through comprehensive immigration reform would generate $4.5 to $5.4 billion in additional net tax revenue within three years. The study predicted that ultimately the benefits of immigration reform would go beyond pure tax revenue and would yield at least $1.5 trillion in cumulative U.S. gross domestic product over 10 years.”
I'm conservative by nature, so thank you for posting this, BM. I'm tired of the talking heads moving the definition of "conservative" and "liberal" as they see fit. Makes my head spin.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I'm conservative by nature, so thank you for posting this, BM. I'm tired of the talking heads moving the definition of "conservative" and "liberal" as they see fit. Makes my head spin. I just think its hypocritical of these folks who protest the government infringing on our "Constitutuonal rights" and then turn a blind Eye to or to actualy support the same thing in Arizona... It also cracks me up that some of the congresmen and senators in Washington who opposed the stinulus bill have been Taking credit for the projects started up in thier districts due to the bill...:doh: Some are showing up at the ribbon cutting opening of some of the products of the stimulus bill when those people voted against it!:doh:

[waterboy]

I didn't know ILLEGAL aliens were protected by our Constitution.......:doh: It looks to me like they have MORE rights than an American citizen, especially when ILLEGAL aliens can come into our country and KILL American citizens on their own property, flee back across the border and be free from prosecution because we don't have enough evidence (fingerprints on file, etc.) to expedite them back to the U.S. If illegal entry is criminalized we can go after them. I applaud Arizona for taking a stand against the murder of innocent American citizens.:clap:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by waterboy
I applaud Arizona for taking a stand against the murder of innocent American citizens.:clap:
...by promoting fascism on people of color who ARE AMERICAN!

Has already happened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpjd5sh8xCM&playnext_from=TL&videos=OB1UBQr9nfw

Despite Tom Tancredo (surprised at that) and Linsdey Graham coming out against it!

Yeah, I applaud Arizona. Perhaps the Americans that Michelle Bachman said the govt was going to pick up were Hispanics? :thinking:

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by waterboy
I didn't know ILLEGAL aliens were protected by our Constitution.......:doh: It looks to me like they have MORE rights than an American citizen, especially when ILLEGAL aliens can come into our country and KILL American citizens on their own property, flee back across the border and be free from prosecution because we don't have enough evidence (fingerprints on file, etc.) to expedite them back to the U.S. If illegal entry is criminalized we can go after them. I applaud Arizona for taking a stand against the murder of innocent American citizens.:clap:
Too much government for me, brother.

This legislation not only cracks down on illegal aliens, it also cracks down on US citizens. I don't mind action as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of me or any of my fellow citizens.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by waterboy
I didn't know ILLEGAL aliens were protected by our Constitution.......:doh: It looks to me like they have MORE rights than an American citizen, especially when ILLEGAL aliens can come into our country and KILL American citizens on their own property, flee back across the border and be free from prosecution because we don't have enough evidence (fingerprints on file, etc.) to expedite them back to the U.S. If illegal entry is criminalized we can go after them. I applaud Arizona for taking a stand against the murder of innocent American citizens.:clap:

They're not, but the American citizens who are subject to racial profiling are protected by our Constitution. Which is why we are in this predicament.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Too much government for me, brother.

This legislation not only cracks down on illegal aliens, it also cracks down on US citizens. That's okay, he's not effected by it, apparently he's not tanned! :D

Crazy in a god fearing state like Arizona, you could be American and detained for being named Jesus! lmao

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by waterboy
I didn't know ILLEGAL aliens were protected by our Constitution.......:doh: It looks to me like they have MORE rights than an American citizen, especially when ILLEGAL aliens can come into our country and KILL American citizens on their own property, flee back across the border and be free from prosecution because we don't have enough evidence (fingerprints on file, etc.) to expedite them back to the U.S. If illegal entry is criminalized we can go after them. I applaud Arizona for taking a stand against the murder of innocent American citizens.:clap: I think it is funny that the justification of the healthcare bill is "it is better than doing nothing". :rolleyes: Well I think the same thing can be said for this legislation.:thinking:


My stance has always been that there is too much government. Yes immigration needs to be addressed. Yes healthcare needs to be addressed, but they need to be addressed properly.

The positives in this immigration bill are that it is state legislation and if the majority of the people of that state do not like the law then the majority of the lawmakers that supported it will be voted out and the law repealed. Unlike healthcare that is being shoved down our throats. :thinking:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
They're not, but the American citizens who are subject to racial profiling are protected by our Constitution. Which is why we are in this predicament. Thats right so if they propose such a law in Texas you can call your State Rep. And tell him you do not support it. If more people are against it than are for it then the bill will not become law. That is the way it should be.:D

[waterboy]

Originally posted by DDBooger
That's okay, he's not effected by it, apparently he's not tanned! :D

:mad: HEY! I resemble that remark!:D The point is getting illegals' fingerprints, photos on file. The only way to be sure of that is to arrest those without documentation......but, yes, it does open up a racial profiling issue...... What do you suggest be done? It's obvious nothing else has worked yet.


Originally posted by DDBooger
Crazy in a god fearing state like Arizona, you could be American and detained for being named Jesus! lmao
It COULD happen, and undoubtedly will, but sometimes the price is worth the protection, or vice-versa. Why should an American citizen worry when they have documentation, i.e. driver's license, social security card, ID card, or in the case of legal aliens a Green card, etc.? It'll be an inconvenience for sure, but if you have the proper documentation you won't have anything to worry about. The federal government hasn't done anything that has had any impact on the influx of illegal aliens, so why not let Arizona try it on their own for a while and see what happens? I hate that it has come to this, but something has to be done.....

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Thats right so if they propose such a law in Texas you can call your State Rep. And tell him you do not support it. If more people are against it than are for it then the bill will not become law. That is the way it should be.:D

Yeah, because representatives always listen to the voices of constituents....

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by waterboy
:mad: HEY! I resemble that remark!:D The point is getting illegals' fingerprints, photos on file. The only way to be sure of that is to arrest those without documentation......but, yes, it does open up a racial profiling issue...... What do you suggest be done? It's obvious nothing else has worked yet.


It COULD happen, and undoubtedly will, but sometimes the price is worth the protection, or vice-versa. Why should an American citizen worry when they have documentation, i.e. driver's license, social security card, ID card, or in the case of legal aliens a Green card, etc.? It'll be an inconvenience for sure, but if you have the proper documentation you won't have anything to worry about. The federal government hasn't done anything that has had any impact on the influx of illegal aliens, so why not let Arizona try it on their own for a while and see what happens? I hate that it has come to this, but something has to be done..... President Bush, Graham and McCain tried a plan, but they were shot down by their own party. This was not even to be debated. Federal malaise has certainly set in. Obama put it on the back burner too. However, it looks like when the population gets restless, they may put an ear to the land. Looks like immigration may jump up front and center.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by DDBooger
President Bush, Graham and McCain tried a plan, but they were shot down by their own party. This was not even to be debated. Federal malaise has certainly set in. Obama put it on the back burner too. However, it looks like when the population gets restless, they may put an ear to the land. Looks like immigration may jump up front and center.
GOOD! That's the whole point.:clap: Something has to be done.:clap:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, because representatives always listen to the voices of constituents.... Yes, at the state level they do. Believe me, if they value re-election they will listen to every word you say. If they don't and you represent the majority opinion they will be gone. The only problem today is most people expect local politicians have ESP, or that someone else will tell the Representative how they feel. It is an Arizona issue, if the politicians followed the will of the people this should stand, if not then the people need to vote the bills supporters out.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by waterboy
:mad: HEY! I resemble that remark!:D The point is getting illegals' fingerprints, photos on file. The only way to be sure of that is to arrest those without documentation......but, yes, it does open up a racial profiling issue...... What do you suggest be done? It's obvious nothing else has worked yet.
I don't think anything ever will truly "work." Just like using different caliber guns for the same paper target. It'll shoot a hole in the target, but the target's still there.

We can change things as much as we want and for the most part it's all fine and well by me. I realize that's how politics are played. But I'm not under any illusions that this will curb illegal immigration.



Originally posted by waterboy
It COULD happen, and undoubtedly will, but sometimes the price is worth the protection, or vice-versa. Why should an American citizen worry when they have documentation, i.e. driver's license, social security card, ID card, or in the case of legal aliens a Green card, etc.? It'll be an inconvenience for sure, but if you have the proper documentation you won't have anything to worry about. The federal government hasn't done anything that has had any impact on the influx of illegal aliens, so why not let Arizona try it on their own for a while and see what happens? I hate that it has come to this, but something has to be done.....
Did you see SNL this weekend by any chance? Great episode, but I'm getting off-track.

Boog posted a great link on his Facebook page.

http://video.hollywoodreporter.com/services/player/bcpid6555681001?bctid=81455511001

[waterboy]

Yeah, I saw that. While it is a form of Fascism, it IS at the state level where the people have the right to approve or reject the legislation. States should have that right and it looks like the majority of the citizens of Arizona are FOR this legislation, unlike the Obamacare bill on a national level where the majority of the people were AGAINST that legislation yet it still passed......:confused: I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but the point is the people should have the right to say yes or no, and the majority rules.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by waterboy
Yeah, I saw that. While it is a form of Fascism, it IS at the state level where the people have the right to approve or reject the legislation. States should have that right and it looks like the majority of the citizens of Arizona are FOR this legislation, unlike the Obamacare bill on a national level where the majority of the people were AGAINST that legislation yet it still passed......:confused: I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but the point is the people should have the right to say yes or no, and the majority rules.

Actually, the polls indicated otherwise. Nice try though.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by waterboy
Yeah, I saw that. While it is a form of Fascism, it IS at the state level where the people have the right to approve or reject the legislation. States should have that right and it looks like the majority of the citizens of Arizona are FOR this legislation, unlike the Obamacare bill on a national level where the majority of the people were AGAINST that legislation yet it still passed......:confused: I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but the point is the people should have the right to say yes or no, and the majority rules. I think your wrong. Dead wrong. ON some issues your right. Majority rules. BUT in this case thats not the case.. Here is why. IF the majority of Texans said they didnt want african americans to be able to drive a car then that would be uncosntitutional. I think this law is unconstitutional because of the racial profileing. No way around it. you get singled out if your bronw

[waterboy]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Actually, the polls indicated otherwise. Nice try though.
What polls are you talking about? All the polls I saw said that the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare.:confused:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by waterboy
What polls are you talking about? All the polls I saw said that the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare.:confused: 60% or more wanted the public option, what he campaigned on. When it became a watered down, systemically status quo, subsidized by federal govt for low income families. YUP it went down. It essentially changed nothing about the system and kept the broken parts in it EXCEPT for the preconditions. MAN O MAN does the lobbying power have reach.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I think your wrong. Dead wrong. ON some issues your right. Majority rules. BUT in this case thats not the case.. Here is why. IF the majority of Texans said they didnt want african americans to be able to drive a car then that would be uncosntitutional. I think this law is unconstitutional because of the racial profileing. No way around it. you get singled out if your bronw
You do have a good point about how majority rules could be a problem when it comes to racial issues, but something has to be done to secure our borders. It just so happens that the majority of illegal aliens are Mexicans. No way around it. Profiling will be done, and has been done for as long as I can remember. It shouldn't be that way, but stereotyping is a fact of life, and we're all guilty of it regardless of our own race. If Arizona wants to do it, I say let them do it. If it works without infringing on too many peoples' rights, other states can follow if they so choose. It's a given that the federal government cannot, or will not do anything to solve the problem.

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by waterboy
You do have a good point about how majority rules could be a problem when it comes to racial issues, but something has to be done to secure our borders. It just so happens that the majority of illegal aliens are Mexicans. No way around it. Profiling will be done, and has been done for as long as I can remember. It shouldn't be that way, but stereotyping is a fact of life, and we're all guilty of it regardless of our own race. If Arizona wants to do it, I say let them do it. If it works without infringing on too many peoples' rights, other states can follow if they so choose. It's a given that the federal government cannot, or will not do anything to solve the problem. agreed. something needs to be done to BETTER secure our borders. BUT. Nothing about this law does that at all..

[waterboy]

Originally posted by DDBooger
60% or more wanted the public option, what he campaigned on. When it became a watered down, systemically status quo, subsidized by federal govt for low income families. YUP it went down. It essentially changed nothing about the system and kept the broken parts in it EXCEPT for the preconditions. MAN O MAN does the lobbying power have reach.
True. Lobbying did affect the original bill, and a lot of people in government were paid big bucks for their vote. What matters is that the majority of the people did NOT want this healthcare bill passed after they found out what was in it. The REALLY sad part is that most of the Congress persons that voted FOR it did not even read it! The last poll I saw had 63+% of Americans against it. I know I would love to see affordable healthcare for everyone, but I don't think able-bodied people that bilk off the system now should have another entitlement at the taxpayers' expense, not to mention the quality of healthcare will drop exponentially the further along this law goes. This bill is another example of fiscal irresponsibility, and is mortgaging our children's future. The costs that are projected is much less than the actual cost will be. As a country we cannot afford it.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
60% or more wanted the public option, what he campaigned on. When it became a watered down, systemically status quo, subsidized by federal govt for low income families. YUP it went down. It essentially changed nothing about the system and kept the broken parts in it EXCEPT for the preconditions. MAN O MAN does the lobbying power have reach.

Show me where 60% of who wanted what? Prove it.:nerd:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Show me where 60% of who wanted what? Prove it.:nerd:
It was actually 76% in a poll conducted by NBC and Wall Street Journal (Murdoch owned).
Question 34a

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/090617_NBC-WSJ_poll_Full.pdf

I'll find the others

[DDBooger]

another
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B20OL20091203

[DDBooger]

57% from ABC/Washington Post
http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1095a2HealthCareandPolitics.pdf

Gallup 50% Generally viewed as conservative.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123782/In-U.S.-39-Say-View-Healthcare-Depends-Details.aspx

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
It was actually 76% in a poll conducted by NBC and Wall Street Journal (Murdoch owned).
Question 34a

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/090617_NBC-WSJ_poll_Full.pdf

I'll find the others

HART/McINTURFF Study #6095--page 21
June 2009 NBC/Wall Street Journal Survey
34a. In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance––extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?
Extremely important ..........................
41
[248]
Quite important .................................
35
Not that important .............................
12
Not at all important ...........................
8
Not sure ..........................................
4
(ASK ONLY OF RESPONDENTS WHO SAY THEY HAVE A PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN IN Q.31c.)
34b. And if a public plan administered by the federal government is created and available to all Americans, how likely do you think it is your employer would drop your current health coverage and you would be covered instead by the public plan--very likely, somewhat likely, not too likely, or not at all likely? If you don't know enough about this please just say so.
Very likely .........................................
28
[249]
Somewhat likely ................................
19
Not too likely .....................................
15
Not at all likely ..................................
18
Don't know enough ...........................
13
Not sure ..........................................
7
34c. Please tell me which ONE statement you agree with more on the issue of creating a new public health plan administered by the federal government.
(Some/Other) people say it would help lower health care costs because it would compete with private health plans. This new public plan would provide coverage for the uninsured and all Americans would have an option for quality affordable health care.
(Some/Other) people say that patients might not always have access to their choice of doctors and the government would lower costs by limiting medical treatment options and decisions that should be made instead by patients and doctors.
Lower costs and provide health care for all Americans ..........
47
[250]
Limit access to doctors and medical treatment options ..........
42
Not sure .................................................. .............................
11



Whoa!
That doesn't say folks wanted a public option. That question says both a public option and a private one. Sorry you can't twist it like that.:rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan

Whoa!
That doesn't say folks wanted a public option. That question says both a public option and a private one. That doesn't even mention "Single Payer". Sorry you can't twist it like that.:rolleyes:

HAHA first of all Single payer and public option aren't the same smarty pants. Public option in its OWN NAME states the maintenance of a private industry (OPTION) simply offering one in competition. Come on now.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
HAHA first of all Single payer and public option aren't the same smarty pants. Public option in its OWN NAME states the maintenance of a private industry (OPTION) simply offering one in competition. Come on now.

Check again smarty pants. It was edited.:rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Check again smarty pants. It was edited.:rolleyes: :D Did you just grab single payer out of the air? I never mentioned it?

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
another
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B20OL20091203


Just under 60 percent of those surveyed said they would like a public option [i]as part[\i] of any final healthcare reform legislation, which Republicans and a few Democrats oppose.

It says, "as part". That's is not the same as
60% or more wanted the public option, what he campaigned on.
You are twisting the truth.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
It says, "as part". That's is not the same as
You are twisting the truth.

No, you're going into semantics haha I realize in your personal vendetta with me you seek any and all ways to argue with me, but saying wanted the public option doesn't mean ONLY the public option. My gosh SF.

And again, I never said Single payer! haha

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
57% from ABC/Washington Post
http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1095a2HealthCareandPolitics.pdf



You know as well as I do that the polls have changed drastically since this:

ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST POLL: HEALTH CARE AND POLITICS
EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE AFTER 5 p.m. Monday, Oct. 19, 2009

You don't want to post the numbers now. You want to present what was taken back in October as factual today. Sorry, that is twisting the truth.:rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
You know as well as I do that the polls have changed drastically since this:


You don't want to post the numbers now. You want to present what was taken back in October as factual today. Sorry, that is twisting the truth.:rolleyes:
WHICH WAS PRECISELY MY POINT

Did you not read the thread or just attack something you saw from me? LOL

As the bill left it out, watered it down and became the mess of a bill we received, it became horribly unpopular. Especially after the Senate version.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
No, you're going into semantics haha I realize in your personal vendetta with me you seek any and all ways to argue with me, but saying wanted the public option doesn't mean ONLY the public option. My gosh SF.

And again, I never said Single payer! haha

Haha, you have to hold onto something that was edited. lol
I don't hold a grudge on you. Sorry but it is something you are going to have to deal with. I AM the opposite of you when it comes to politics.:nerd:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Haha, you have to hold onto something that was edited. lol Certainly when it indicates you are confusing two different terms (mistakenly). I understand that.



Originally posted by SintonFan
don't hold a grudge on you. Sorry but it is something you are going to have to deal with. I AM the opposite of you when it comes to politics.:nerd: I agree, in some ways I'm honored that I'm really one of the few you choose to spar with! ;)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
WHICH WAS PRECISELY MY POINT

Did you not read the thread or just attack something you saw from me? LOL

As the bill left it out, watered it down and became the mess of a bill we received, it became horribly unpopular. Especially after the Senate version.

No, you mentioned that folks wanted a public option. That is not true! Those polls prove that they wanted A Choice! Not a public option on it's own.:rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
No, you mentioned that folks wanted a public option. That is not true! Those polls prove that they wanted A Choice! Not a public option on it's own.:rolleyes: Public Option is a CHOICE. It's the choice of having it. Now who's twisting? Come on now. I never stated that it was on it's own. Having a public option doesn't solve the other issues of private insurance. It's a given that their is more to healthcare overhaul.

[SintonFan]

Boog, I gotta take care of my wife.
Manana. Stay thirsty.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Boog, I gotta take care of my wife.
Manana. Stay thirsty. Best to you pal, Good night.