Wikileaks: Video of Collateral Damage.

[DDBooger]

Apparently an insider leaked this to the site that gives medium to any insider evidence. Have you guys seen the video of the Servicemen dispatching of several civilians and 2 Reuters reporters? Warning, disturbing.
http://www.wikileaks.com/

These are the kinds of things that turn people against us.

Disclaimer: for all those Ultra-national respondents who hate all things not American, this isn't bashing the military, this is **NOT** representative of the majority, but still pretty vile. I wonder if a serviceman leaked this to stop a cover-up?

[SintonPirateFan]

where's Paul Harvey when you need him?

i know some of you will dismiss this link because it is FoxNews... but here it is, nonetheless.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/07/military-raises-questions-credibility-leaked-iraq-shooting-video/

[Pick6]

WikiLeaks said on Monday the video taken from an Army helicopter shows the men were walking through a courtyard and did nothing to provoke the attack. Their representatives said when the military mistook cameras for weapons, U.S. personnel killed everyone in sight and have attempted to cover up the murders ever since.

The problem, according to many who have viewed the video, is that WikiLeaks appears to have done selective editing that tells only half the story. For instance, the Web site takes special care to slow down the video and identify the two photographers and the cameras they are carrying.

However, the Web site does not slow down the video to show that at least one man in that group was carrying a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, a clearly visible weapon that runs nearly two-thirds the length of his body.

WikiLeaks also does not point out that at least one man was carrying an AK-47 assault rifle. He is seen swinging the weapon below his waist while standing next to the man holding the RPG.

[Pick6]

"It gives you a limited perspective," said Capt. Jack Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command. "The video only tells you a portion of the activity that was happening that day. Just from watching that video, people cannot understand the complex battles that occurred. You are seeing only a very narrow picture of the events."

Hanzlik said images gathered during a military investigation of the incident show multiple weapons around the dead bodies in the courtyard, including at least three RPGs.

"Our forces were engaged in combat all that day with individuals that fit the description of the men in that video. Their age, their weapons, and the fact that they were within the distance of the forces that had been engaged made it apparent these guys were potentially a threat," Hanzlik said.

[turbostud]

Terrorists can carry cameras. Journalists don't carry AK-47s.
If you see both they are legitimate targets.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by turbostud
Terrorists can carry cameras. Journalists don't carry AK-47s.
If you see both they are legitimate targets. Actually many who travel with security do, not saying that was what happened here, but that is not unheard of.

[turbostud]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Actually many who travel with security do, not saying that was what happened here, but that is not unheard of.

Well, I'm not losing any sleep over this. Some bad guys got wasted, two allegedly embedded reporters got caught up in the gunfire, and I'm supposed to feel bad? It happens. IMO, Wikileaks really misled the public on the details of this video. They made it sound like it was an unprovoked massacre of unarmed civilians.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by turbostud
Well, I'm not losing any sleep over this. Some bad guys got wasted, two allegedly embedded reporters got caught up in the gunfire, and I'm supposed to feel bad? It happens. IMO, Wikileaks really misled the public on the details of this video. They made it sound like it was an unprovoked massacre of unarmed civilians. Even if all were innocent, I don't suspect you'd lose sleep anyways. Most Americans don't lose sleep over their own countrymen dying in Iraq. We just slap a sticker on our vehicles and make patriotic statements.

[gatordaze]

War is hell no doubt and as Americans we are fortunate to have laid back neighbors in Mexico and Canada. (maybe not so much Mexico anymore).

I can tell you one thing for sure, if war breaks out and helicopter gunships are circling Celina looking for people walking the streets with weapons I will not carry as much as a stick that might be mistaken for a weapon. If my buddies get shot up becuase they were dumb enough to carry cameras slung over their shoulder around a bunch of other dudes actually carrying weapons, I am damn sure not gonna load up the kids and go pickem up while the helicopter that shot em is circling overhead.

It is war and war is hell. Use your brains people and leave areas like this until they are inhabitable at some point in the future.

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Even if all were innocent, I don't suspect you'd lose sleep anyways. Most Americans don't lose sleep over their own countrymen dying in Iraq. We just slap a sticker on our vehicles and make patriotic statements.


i would have to completely disagree with that last statement.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
i would have to completely disagree with that last statement.

As would I.....right now I have a nephew and 3 cousins serving in Afghanistan....and I worry plenty and I don't have a single sticker on my truck!!!

[big daddy russ]

Either way, it definitely looks bad. We have to give some creedence to the video pending further facts. Definitely worth investigating further and not sweeping under the rug.

I'll temper all my judgments until we learn more, but if we want to be looked at as the "great liberating nation" that we're trying to be viewed as, situations like this one appears to be are unacceptable.

[BwdLion73]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Even if all were innocent, I don't suspect you'd lose sleep anyways. Most Americans don't lose sleep over their own countrymen dying in Iraq. We just slap a sticker on our vehicles and make patriotic statements.

:o

[LE Dad]

If I am in an area where troops are engaging an enemy force, I am embedding my *** in a secure area not walking around with guys who might be mistaken for, or are the enemy. I am certainly sorry that innocent people lost their lives, but I am also glad that I am not reading about our troops being massacred because they thought too much. If it looks like a weapon then it probably is a weapon.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Even if all were innocent, I don't suspect you'd lose sleep anyways. Most Americans don't lose sleep over their own countrymen dying in Iraq. We just slap a sticker on our vehicles and make patriotic statements.

Sorry boog, I pray for our soldiers every night. Friends and I have spent time making/sending packages to those overseas in harms way. More than once staying up past our normal bedtimes.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Sorry boog, I pray for our soldiers every night. Friends and I have spent time making/sending packages to those overseas in harms way. More than once staying up past our normal bedtimes.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: And I applaud you :clap:

You're not a representative sample of most however, thus I wasn't addressing you.

[BullsFan]

Death is an unfortunate consequence of war. I think the whole idea of embedded journalists is foolish and unnecessary. I also think wikilinks is trying to make this into something it isn't.

[turbostud]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Even if all were innocent, I don't suspect you'd lose sleep anyways. Most Americans don't lose sleep over their own countrymen dying in Iraq. We just slap a sticker on our vehicles and make patriotic statements.

You know what they say about ASSumptions?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by turbostud
You know what they say about ASSumptions? that some can't spell it? lmao ;)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
And I applaud you :clap:

You're not a representative sample of most however, thus I wasn't addressing you.

I know of more than a few on this board who spent their time and money in the same fashion.

Did the video mean to show that some of our soldiers are imperfect or was it a blanket statement meant to demean them all and justify we pull them all out now? There has been wars before...
there has always been those opposed to war. But the tactics used today by those who oppose any war by us are cowardly and reprehensible.
The US has always stood for Freedom and Liberty, even today.
War is hard. Period.
The title of that video is wrong(Collateral Murder) and intentional. Murder is different than what happened in that video. :rolleyes:

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
I know of more than a few on this board who spent their time and money in the same fashion. Even so, not representative. Yet, not any less honorable, great job.


Originally posted by SintonFan
the video mean to show that some of our soldiers are imperfect or was it a blanket statement meant to demean them all and justify we pull them all out now? There has been wars before...
there has always been those opposed to war. But the tactics used today by those who oppose any war by us are cowardly and reprehensible.
The US has always stood for Freedom and Liberty, even today.
War is hard. Period.
The title of that video is wrong(Collateral Murder) and intentional. Murder is different than what happened in that video. :rolleyes:
I dunno the intentions, I just wanted input from others. Normally people wait before passing judgment but it seems this is being deemed fraudulent or justifiable by most. Let's wait and see what happens after the investigation. Certainly after Pat Tillman fiasco, we know the service is not always forthright with the facts.

[injuredinmelee]

Kill Em All and let God sort them out.

[ivchris]

This is a perfect example of why reporters don't belong in a battlezone. I can see where the pilots think these guys have weapons, especially when they one kneeling by the building with the long lensed camera is mistaken of a RPG. What the story on th is particular website doesn't explain is that these guys are headed towards an earlier battle scene to take pictures, so soldiers in the area have already been in a firefight and on the lookout for other insurgents.
I feel sorry for the families of all of the dead, but I'm not going to second guess a soldier in a combat situation that truly believes he's defending himself and his friends.

[BOCEPHUS]

my guess is wikileaks is run by a bunch of left wing fruit bats.

maybe the wikileaks people need to spend some time on ground and in choppers over there..........might chnage their left wing perspective

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Apparently an insider leaked this to the site that gives medium to any insider evidence. Have you guys seen the video of the Servicemen dispatching of several civilians and 2 Reuters reporters? Warning, disturbing.
http://www.wikileaks.com/

These are the kinds of things that turn people against us.

Disclaimer: for all those Ultra-national respondents who hate all things not American, this isn't bashing the military, this is **NOT** representative of the majority, but still pretty vile. I wonder if a serviceman leaked this to stop a cover-up?


You obviousley have not heard all the information on this. If you would have... you would not have wasted our time with this post.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
You obviousley have not heard all the information on this. If you would have... you would not have wasted our time with this post. Clearly, I never condemned or accepted w/o waiting for more to come out. Unlike you who have already passed judgement. LOL Apparently you're privy to some source I'm not, please share.

[Farmersfan]

I'm thinking Wikileaks should be held accountable for some type of crime against the military/America/or the soldiers involved if it is proven that they intentionally portrayed this video in such a way as to mislead people.
In the civilian world it's known as Slander.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Clearly, I never condemned or accepted w/o waiting for more to come out. Unlike you who have already passed judgement. LOL Apparently you're privy to some source I'm not, please share.

You impose yourself as the educated one.. Find it yourself.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
You impose yourself as the educated one.. Find it yourself. I'm sorry, it was you who said that I had not heard everything, I merely asked you to share. But, I digress, apparently it was a visceral response to something you don't like.

[SintonPirateFan]

i posted a link earlier in this thread to the military's response to wikileaks misleading video.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
i posted a link earlier in this thread to the military's response to wikileaks misleading video.
lol yeah, I'll go ahead and wait till a more reputable investigative body does the work. When in the spotlight, the military will act accordingly. Unfortunately, it took that for the WHOLE Pat Tillman story to come out and in other instances as well. I'm sure they'll do the right thing.

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
lol yeah, I'll go ahead and wait till a more reputable investigative body does the work. When in the spotlight, the military will act accordingly. Unfortunately, it took that for the WHOLE Pat Tillman story to come out and in many cases other digressions. I'm sure they'll do the right thing.


are you, or were you ever, in the military?

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
are you, or were you ever, in the military? Nope, blew my knee out and never went through with getting an appt to West Point :(

Incidently, what does that have to do with anything?

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Nope, blew my knee out and never went through with getting an appt to West Point :(

Incidently, what does that have to do with anything?


just making conversation.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
just making conversation.

It was pretty devastating, I had talked about it my whole childhood. When kids were buying cartoon books I was buying Cowboy and Indian books, WWI and II books, biographies, I think my dad bought me every war movie from the 60s lol. I was a spigot for military history. Could never get enough of it. I have tremendous respect for our Armed Forces, my patriotism doesn't end at supporting any and everything they are sent to do, but it extends to whether the choices made by those who send them to do the hardest thing are wise and just. Those that lay their lives on the line deserve to have US question the reasoning when they can't, and simply do as ordered.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
lol yeah, I'll go ahead and wait till a more reputable investigative body does the work. When in the spotlight, the military will act accordingly. Unfortunately, it took that for the WHOLE Pat Tillman story to come out and in other instances as well. I'm sure they'll do the right thing.




And yet you post Wikileaks as a "reputable" investigative body???? Your "Left-Wing" panties are showing big time Booger!

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And yet you post Wikileaks as a "reputable" investigative body???? Your "Left-Wing" panties are showing big time Booger!
I'm sorry, I can change the link to one posted on youtube if it suits you and doesn't get your right wing pad in a bunch? ;)

I didn't do the editing, I can only post what exists. As well, I didn't condemn or accept it as truth, merely asked for thoughts. I realize when you're throwing a tantrum you feel the need to attack, by all means, continue to make a fool of yourself! :)

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
It was pretty devastating, I had talked about it my whole childhood. When kids were buying cartoon books I was buying Cowboy and Indian books, WWI and II books, biographies, I think my dad bought me every war movie from the 60s lol. I was a spigot for military history. Could never get enough of it. I have tremendous respect for our Armed Forces, my patriotism doesn't end at supporting any and everything they are sent to do, but it extends to whether the choices made by those who send them to do the hardest thing are wise and just. Those that lay their lives on the line deserve to have US question the reasoning when they can't, and simply do as ordered.


that's kinda funny, i was exactly the opposite. had no desire to join, no desire to have someone stand there yelling at me telling me what to do, living in a barracks, yada yada. and here i am with almost 10 years under my belt. (and 33 days left)

i wasn't questioning your patriotism or support for the troops, just trying to understand your background, and your perspective on the subject.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
that's kinda funny, i was exactly the opposite. had no desire to join, no desire to have someone stand there yelling at me telling me what to do, living in a barracks, yada yada. and here i am with almost 10 years under my belt. (and 33 days left)

i wasn't questioning your patriotism or support for the troops, just trying to understand your background, and your perspective on the subject. I appreciate your candor and service!

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I'm sorry, I can change the link to one posted on youtube if it suits you and doesn't get your right wing pad in a bunch? ;)

I didn't do the editing, I can only post what exists. As well, I didn't condemn or accept it as truth, merely asked for thoughts. I realize when you're throwing a tantrum you feel the need to attack, by all means, continue to make a fool of yourself! :)



Pretend neutrality is not any more appealing than extreme right or left agendas! At least others on here stick to their convictions instead of back tracking.

Your own words when posting the original link included "Vile" and "Not representative of the majority". You too had already made up your mind about the validity of this video before YOU had all the information.
Do you consider WikiLeaks more crediable than FoxNews??? Just curious.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Pretend neutrality is not any more appealing than extreme right or left agendas! At least others on here stick to their convictions instead of back tracking.

Your own words when posting the original link included "Vile" and "Not representative of the majority". You too had already made up your mind about the validity of this video before YOU had all the information.
Do you consider WikiLeaks more crediable than FoxNews??? Just curious.
Yeah, watching people dispatched is vile, unless for some sick reason you enjoy it. I don't support terrorism, but I don't get pleasure from watching them torn to shreds. Do I consider Wikileaks more credible than Fox?....Did I say something to hint that I did? Is that even the question that needs to be asked? In terms of agenda, I'd say either represents well what they try to push, that's for sure! ;)

Continue to deflect to me! :) It's amusing

[PPSTATEBOUND]

I have a wonderful sauce for those who love the crawfishing.:D

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yeah, watching people dispatched is vile, unless for some sick reason you enjoy it. I don't support terrorism, but I don't get pleasure from watching them torn to shreds. Do I consider Wikileaks more credible than Fox?....Did I say something to hint that I did? Is that even the question that needs to be asked? In terms of agenda, I'd say either represents well what they try to push, that's for sure! ;)

Continue to deflect to me! :) It's amusing The media is all the same. They are politically motivated in some form and some will go as far as to "fix" footage of military action. By that I mean slow things down, delete footage, only show what they think will help them gain ground. It is natural

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by NateDawg39
The media is all the same. They are politically motivated in some form and some will go as far as to "fix" footage of military action. By that I mean slow things down, delete footage, only show what they think will help them gain ground. It is natural I don't dispute that claim and "fixing" anything can be extended beyond simply military matters. Take a gander at Manufacturing Consent if you ever want to learn more about the Media, honest depiction of left and right and the false dichotomy.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by DDBooger
Yeah, watching people dispatched is vile, unless for some sick reason you enjoy it. I don't support terrorism, but I don't get pleasure from watching them torn to shreds. Do I consider Wikileaks more credible than Fox?....Did I say something to hint that I did? Is that even the question that needs to be asked? In terms of agenda, I'd say either represents well what they try to push, that's for sure! ;)

Continue to deflect to me! :) It's amusing



You are still my hero Booger! Anyone who can cover up some many flaws with such great verbal eloquence can't be all bad! :D :D

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
You are still my hero Booger! Anyone who can cover up some many flaws with such great verbal eloquence can't be all bad! :D :D Anyone who sets out to find them and even create them when they're not there is a creative soul, so perhaps we're kindred in spirit! haha ;)

Never personal and dialog merely expands our thinking. :D

[RoyceTTU]

WikiLeaks' Woes Grow as Spokesman Quits SiteUpdated: 2 hours 40 minutes ago
.Print Text Size Print this page|EmailShare on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on Lifestream
Theunis Bates
Contributor

AOL News (Sept. 28) -- It turns out WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange isn't only unpopular with Pentagon employees. He's also under attack from members of his own organization, who are accusing him of running the controversial whistle-blowing website like an autocrat.

WikiLeaks' German representative, Daniel Domscheit-Berg -- who was known as Daniel Schmitt while acting as the site's spokesman -- announced Monday he was quitting the organization because he could no longer work under Assange.






Dont say this guys name too fast in public. Its real close to Dumb-S__T. Makes me laugh. Anyone who works for this company and causes they havok they have without recourse are a bunch of dumb-S__T's

[BwdLion73]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
that's kinda funny, i was exactly the opposite. had no desire to join, no desire to have someone stand there yelling at me telling me what to do, living in a barracks, yada yada. and here i am with almost 10 years under my belt. (and 33 days left)

.

Well who made you join? I remember when they did not ask and just sent you a nice letter inviteing you to see the world and kill people. ;)

Congrats. on your 10 years...your halfway there, ever think about doing 10 more and retireing young? )

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Sorry boog, I pray for our soldiers every night. Friends and I have spent time making/sending packages to those overseas in harms way. More than once staying up past our normal bedtimes.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SintonFan, and they do appreciate it. Even though I am retired now I always take the time to shake their hand when I see them in the airport and thank them for their service.
I won't comment on Mr. Booger's threads in this as his comment are baseless - However, I will submit to you Mr. Booger, these are the finest of American's that we are placing in uniform. Do mistakes happen, of course, but unless you know the circumstances I guess it would be in the best interest to give them the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise. These young men and women are extremely intelligent and they work very long and hard hours for not much pay - many enlisted just because of 911. I know MANY on multiple tours because they believe in what they are doing. I sincerely hope that you take the time to appreciate what they are doing in places you don't want to be or simply can't be. Thanks.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
SintonFan, and they do appreciate it. Even though I am retired now I always take the time to shake their hand when I see them in the airport and thank them for their service.
I won't comment on Mr. Booger's threads in this as his comment are baseless - However, I will submit to you Mr. Booger, these are the finest of American's that we are placing in uniform. Do mistakes happen, of course, but unless you know the circumstances I guess it would be in the best interest to give them the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise. These young men and women are extremely intelligent and they work very long and hard hours for not much pay - many enlisted just because of 911. I know MANY on multiple tours because they believe in what they are doing. I sincerely hope that you take the time to appreciate what they are doing in places you don't want to be or simply can't be. Thanks. Please point to a comment of denigration or disrespect. Baseless is presuming the truth to be nefarious and the fiction to be patriotic. I find that common amongst many people today.

[big daddy russ]

The way he runs his business and other character flaws indicated above don't necessarily discredit the story. Haven't heard any more of this story and am still up in the air, but this new information in irrelevant in my mind.