I've been thinking.......

[GreenMonster]

It's a rather scary thought, but the ol' GreenMonster has been thinking about the new Healthcare Bill and have even had a few discussions about it with colleagues etc. What I've come up with is that Healthcare or even pollitics is not the problem here. The real problem lies in the liability of the Doctors. We need tort reform much worse than we need healthcare reform. If we can do away with the large sums of money that doctors and hospitals pay out in malpractice insurance and cash settlements then the cost of healthcare will drop drastically. There need to be limits on the amount that can be sued for. I understand that the naysayers will say "how do you put a price on a life?" To that I reply you don't. Instead you put a price on the mistake made. Take "life" out of the equation. I know that there are some bad Doctors out there, but they are acting in good faith and doing everything that they can to fix their patients. Instead of allowing lawyers and uninformed juries to determine the severity of the mistake made and determine the amount to be paid out, get retired healthcare professionals to serve on committees that determine how bad the mistake made was or if there was a mistake made at all. With all of the "specialists" in today's world of healthcare it shouldn't be hard to put together a panel of experts for just about any scenario to determine the severity of any mistakes and dole out fines to Doctors in these situations. Let healthcare police itself. Get the insurance companies and the lawyers out of our medical bills and prices will drop. Unfortunately most of our representation at the national level of our government are themselves lawyers and they refuse to consider tort reform because they do not want to remove the silver spoon from their own mouths or any of their professional colleague's mouths. So tort reform is nothing more than pie in the sky, but in my opinion we would get a whole lot better and cheaper care without the major government involvement that might cost out country over a trillion dollars in it's first 10 years alone.

[Keith7]

:doh: :doh: :doh: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[PPSTATEBOUND]

:wave:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
It's a rather scary thought, but the ol' GreenMonster has been thinking about the new Healthcare Bill and have even had a few discussions about it with colleagues etc. What I've come up with is that Healthcare or even pollitics is not the problem here. The real problem lies in the liability of the Doctors. We need tort reform much worse than we need healthcare reform. If we can do away with the large sums of money that doctors and hospitals pay out in malpractice insurance and cash settlements then the cost of healthcare will drop drastically. There need to be limits on the amount that can be sued for. I understand that the naysayers will say "how do you put a price on a life?" To that I reply you don't. Instead you put a price on the mistake made. Take "life" out of the equation. I know that there are some bad Doctors out there, but they are acting in good faith and doing everything that they can to fix their patients. Instead of allowing lawyers and uninformed juries to determine the severity of the mistake made and determine the amount to be paid out, get retired healthcare professionals to serve on committees that determine how bad the mistake made was or if there was a mistake made at all. With all of the "specialists" in today's world of healthcare it shouldn't be hard to put together a panel of experts for just about any scenario to determine the severity of any mistakes and dole out fines to Doctors in these situations. Let healthcare police itself. Get the insurance companies and the lawyers out of our medical bills and prices will drop. Unfortunately most of our representation at the national level of our government are themselves lawyers and they refuse to consider tort reform because they do not want to remove the silver spoon from their own mouths or any of their professional colleague's mouths. So tort reform is nothing more than pie in the sky, but in my opinion we would get a whole lot better and cheaper care without the major government involvement that might cost out country over a trillion dollars in it's first 10 years alone.

I read somewhere(will try to find it) that malpractice suits are like 2% of the total healthcare cost. I think it is a big red herring people use when it come to healthcare

[Txbroadcaster]

Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the state’s second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are “critical,” but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings.

http://www.saynotocaps.org/factsandfigures/justthefacts.htm


Malpractice costs amounted to “less than 2 percent of overall health care spending. Thus, even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.” (Congressional Budget Office, “Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice,” 1/08/04 )

[GreenMonster]

I'm guessing that I missed something banning any and all Healthcare Bill talk. If so, then any Mod please delete this thread. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything. Just wanted to hear other's opinion on the subject.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Cost of illegal alien health care per year anyone?

[LE Dad]

:eek: :eek:



:wave:

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the state’s second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are “critical,” but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings.

http://www.saynotocaps.org/factsandfigures/justthefacts.htm


Malpractice costs amounted to “less than 2 percent of overall health care spending. Thus, even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.” (Congressional Budget Office, “Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice,” 1/08/04 )

See there people, it is possible to get really good information off of this site without major arguments! I was under the impression that malpractice insurance and settlements were as much as 40% of doctor and hospital expenses. Thanks for straightening me out TXB. I can't help but continue to think that there has to be some other steps that could also be taken that would have large impacts on healthcare costs.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
I'm guessing that I missed something banning any and all Healthcare Bill talk. If so, then any Mod please delete this thread. I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest or anything. Just wanted to hear other's opinion on the subject.
No rules have been broken here. Not as I read them anyway.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I read somewhere(will try to find it) that malpractice suits are like 2% of the total healthcare cost. I think it is a big red herring people use when it come to healthcare

Not a red herring. The numbers that are not represented by the 2% are premiums which represent approximately 10% of healthcare dollars spent. In addtion, there are additional exposures that have yet to be paid (outstanding reserves) and losses on policies issued that have not fully developed. The percentage likely approaches and may exceed 15%.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Not a red herring. The numbers that are not represented by the 2% are premiums which represent approximately 10% of healthcare dollars spent. In addtion, there are additional exposures that have yet to be paid (outstanding reserves) and losses on policies issued that have not fully developed. The percentage likely approaches and may exceed 15%.


yet as the link shows..even in states where a cap is in place premuins STILL GO UP

Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the state’s second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are “critical,” but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings

[Keith7]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
Cost of illegal alien health care per year anyone? :tisk: :tisk:

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by Keith7
:tisk: :tisk:
What rule was broken by PPSTATEBOUND saying, "Cost of illegal alien health care per year anyone?" ?

[waterboy]

:wave:

Let's just say I'm against this health care bill and leave it at that......:mad:


:wave:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
yet as the link shows..even in states where a cap is in place premuins STILL GO UP

Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the states second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are critical, but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings The company I work for just switched carriers after our former carrier raised rates. It was projected to cost the company an additional $75,000 a year to stick with former carrier.

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by waterboy
:wave:

Let's just say I'm against this health care bill and leave it at that......:mad:


:wave:
You have every right to say that.

BTW, howdy to you too waterboy.:D

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
You have every right to say that.

BTW, howdy to you too waterboy.:D
:wave:

Howdy! :D

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
yet as the link shows..even in states where a cap is in place premuins STILL GO UP

Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the state’s second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are “critical,” but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings

Any savings due to tort reform may not manifest itself for several years. In addition, to get real saving it needs to be across the board with all states adopting some legislation. One of the sources in your link is the CBO which is the same entity alleging the current health care bill will only cost $940B over the next 10 years. They are clearly out of touch with the realities of what is about to transpire should we continue down this disastrous course.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by waterboy
:wave:

Let's just say I'm against this health care bill and leave it at that......:mad:


:wave:

DITTO

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Texas enacted medical malpractice caps in 2003, and despite the caps the state’s second largest insurer has requested a 19% rate increase. Medical Protective, a leading insurer, claims on its website that caps are “critical,” but then admits in its filing that caps do not lead to any significant savings.

http://www.saynotocaps.org/factsandfigures/justthefacts.htm


Malpractice costs amounted to “less than 2 percent of overall health care spending. Thus, even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.” (Congressional Budget Office, “Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice,” 1/08/04 )


".............But here in Missouri, we have put this theory of tort reform & cost control into practice. In 2005, then-Gov. Matt Blunt signed legislation that restricts medical injury lawsuits. According to the Right, we should now have lower health care insurance rates. Don't we? After all, that's what was promised by the Republican-led state legislature when they passed the law................."Unfortunately we don't. Even though at the end of 2008 there were ONLY 3,000 cases in Missouri pending against doctors, hospitals & other types of health care providers. THAT IS THE LOWEST NUMBER ON RECORD IN THE LAST 30 YEARS. The average cost of health insurance last year increased an average of 7.5%. So in spite of the reform legislation which has led to an unprecidented low number of claims....costs are still increasing here in Missouri! Somebody want to explain how this is supposed to work on a national level? Especially since the increase in costs is still more than the average increase in wages for Missourians."


http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/nemokc/2009/09/health-care-the-malpractice-my.php


:thinking:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Any savings due to tort reform may not manifest itself for several years. In addition, to get real saving it needs to be across the board with all states adopting some legislation. One of the sources in your link is the CBO which is the same entity alleging the current health care bill will only cost $940B over the next 10 years. They are clearly out of touch with the realities of what is about to transpire should we continue down this disastrous course.

no one on the CBO board in 04 when the malpractise info was released is on it now when the healthcare savings was announced

and announcing researched facts is way different than projection number IMO

the simple fact ONE OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES that fought for Tort Reform turns around and admits it actually did little to help in savings IMO speaks volumes about it.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
Cost of illegal alien health care per year anyone?

The costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year. "California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR. "Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become."

[LE Dad]

This whole issue is very frustrating. I do not agree with the current system, but I do not agree with the proposed legislation either.:mad:

[waterboy]

Originally posted by LE Dad
This whole issue is very frustrating. I do not agree with the current system, but I do not agree with the proposed legislation either.:mad:
:eek: Are you okay, LE Dad?

I concur, it is frustrating......... That's why I try not to think about it all the time.:(

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
It's a rather scary thought, but the ol' GreenMonster has been thinking about the new Healthcare Bill and have even had a few discussions about it with colleagues etc. What I've come up with is that Healthcare or even pollitics is not the problem here. The real problem lies in the liability of the Doctors. We need tort reform much worse than we need healthcare reform. If we can do away with the large sums of money that doctors and hospitals pay out in malpractice insurance and cash settlements then the cost of healthcare will drop drastically. There need to be limits on the amount that can be sued for. I understand that the naysayers will say "how do you put a price on a life?" To that I reply you don't. Instead you put a price on the mistake made. Take "life" out of the equation. I know that there are some bad Doctors out there, but they are acting in good faith and doing everything that they can to fix their patients. Instead of allowing lawyers and uninformed juries to determine the severity of the mistake made and determine the amount to be paid out, get retired healthcare professionals to serve on committees that determine how bad the mistake made was or if there was a mistake made at all. With all of the "specialists" in today's world of healthcare it shouldn't be hard to put together a panel of experts for just about any scenario to determine the severity of any mistakes and dole out fines to Doctors in these situations. Let healthcare police itself. Get the insurance companies and the lawyers out of our medical bills and prices will drop. Unfortunately most of our representation at the national level of our government are themselves lawyers and they refuse to consider tort reform because they do not want to remove the silver spoon from their own mouths or any of their professional colleague's mouths. So tort reform is nothing more than pie in the sky, but in my opinion we would get a whole lot better and cheaper care without the major government involvement that might cost out country over a trillion dollars in it's first 10 years alone.

Doctors governing Doctors? Genius....:rolleyes:

[waterboy]

I guess greed finally caught up with the medical and insurance industries, and now we ALL have to pay....:mad:

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
Cost of illegal alien health care per year anyone?

Benefit of taxes, social security, medicare, and medicaid paid from employee withholdings and a tax statement never filed by an illegal alien?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
The costs to Californians is $10.5 billion per year. "California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle class tax base," stated Dan Stein, President of FAIR. "Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become." Until we make it unattractive to cross illegally into this country this problem will only worsen. Increased minimum wage an free healthcare are just inviting increased immigration. Lower or do away with these benefits and get the entitlement people off of the goverment programs and it will solve alot of problems.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by waterboy
I guess greed finally caught up with the medical and insurance industries, and now we ALL have to pay....:mad:

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[Farmersfan]

Healthcare will never be fixed until:

1. Term Limits for all Elected officials.
2. Campaign reform.
3. Accountability (starting at the top)

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by rockdale80
Benefit of taxes, social security, medicare, and medicaid paid from employee withholdings and a tax statement never filed by an illegal alien?


wht do u mean?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by waterboy
:eek: Are you okay, LE Dad?
:thumbsup: Doing great...nothing like talking about reform to fire me up.:D

I have to watch my post count though cause everyone else seems to be.:mad:

[waterboy]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Healthcare will never be fixed until:

1. Term Limits for all Elected officials.
2. Campaign reform.
3. Accountability (starting at the top)
I agree with all of those, and I think it would solve other problems as well.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by LE Dad
:thumbsup: Doing great...nothing like talking about reform to fire me up.:D

I have to watch my post count though cause everyone else seems to be.:mad:
:tisk: :tisk: Thou shalt not pad thy post count.:tisk: :tisk:

Is that a rule?:confused: :doh: :D

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Until we make it unattractive to cross illegally into this country this problem will only worsen. Increased minimum wage an free healthcare are just inviting increased immigration. Lower or do away with these benefits and get the entitlement people off of the goverment programs and it will solve alot of problems.

Someone is profiting from illegal aliens. Border Patrol needs to move most of their forces to the places where illegals work. They need to patrol those areas daily. This would make it very difficult for them to work and would discourage them from coming across the Border.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by garciap77
Someone is profiting from illegal aliens. Border Patrol needs to move most of their forces to the places where illegals work. They need to patrol those areas daily. This would make it very difficult for them to work and would discourage them from coming across the Border.
....But, all they do to the illegals is send them back, only for them to try crossing again. There needs to actually be some sort of real punishment to keep this cycle from recurring.....don't ya think?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by waterboy
:tisk: :tisk: Thou shalt not pad thy post count.:tisk: :tisk:

Is that a rule?:confused: :doh: :D Apparently it is... Thou shall not have more than 14 posts a day, regardless of content. :thinking:

I think its rule 9 section 3 subsection 4 paragraph 12. :D

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by waterboy
I guess greed finally caught up with the medical and insurance industries, and now we ALL have to pay....:mad:




Greed, Yes! But the medical and insurance industries are entitled to make profits just as any other entity in our free enterprise system. I think the lack of personal responsibilty by a huge segment of our society is more responsible than the industry itself. Even a system as large as this one cannot sustain all the normal corporate greed, over-inflated expenses as well as the extraordinary numbers of free-loaders. We have grown to think of "HEALTHCARE" as a entitlement yet we expect private industry to absorb the cost of that entitlement. As the demand for the entitlement increased of course the private sector was going to increase the cost of the services. I can't think of another industry in this free enterpise system that is expected to absorb the expense created by such a huge number of free-loaders. If we dont' get control of the WELFARE then we have no choice but to make it a government program.................Just my thoughts.

[garciap77]

Originally posted by waterboy
....But, all they do to the illegals is send them back, only for them to try crossing again. There needs to actually be some sort of real punishment to keep this cycle from recurring.....don't ya think?

If illegals know that the Border Patrol is going to be patrolling in the places they work at, don't you think they would give up after a few deportations? Let’s say Abilene gets 20 Border Patrol agents to patrol business 24/7, don't you think it would make it almost impossible to work for a business?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
Someone is profiting from illegal aliens. Border Patrol needs to move most of their forces to the places where illegals work. They need to patrol those areas daily. This would make it very difficult for them to work and would discourage them from coming across the Border. I agree, but it will also require replacing this labor source which is why we need to lower or do away with minimum wage and get some of these able bodied welfare receipents into the workforce. The employers wouldn't care as long as the labor was cheap, and if the jobs were taken by legal workers there would be no place for illegals to work.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Greed, Yes! But the medical and insurance industries are entitled to make profits just as any other entity in our free enterprise system. I think the lack of personal responsibilty by a huge segment of our society is more responsible than the industry itself. Even a system as large as this one cannot sustain all the normal corporate greed, over-inflated expenses as well as the extraordinary numbers of free-loaders. We have grown to think of "HEALTHCARE" as a entitlement yet we expect private industry to absorb the cost of that entitlement. As the demand for the entitlement increased of course the private sector was going to increase the cost of the services. I can't think of another industry in this free enterpise system that is expected to absorb the expense created by such a huge number of free-loaders. If we dont' get control of the WELFARE then we have no choice but to make it a government program.................Just my thoughts. :iagree: :iagree:





Don't get used to it. :D

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I agree, but it will also require replacing this labor source which is why we need to lower or do away with minimum wage and get some of these able bodied welfare receipents into the workforce. The employers wouldn't care as long as the labor was cheap, and if the jobs were taken by legal workers there would be no place for illegals to work.

Careful some of these able bodied welfare receipents might have been making $35.00 an hour just a few months ago. You think they are going to work for $5?

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I agree, but it will also require replacing this labor source which is why we need to lower or do away with minimum wage and get some of these able bodied welfare receipents into the workforce. The employers wouldn't care as long as the labor was cheap, and if the jobs were taken by legal workers there would be no place for illegals to work.

That would be great, LED, but I don't think it will ever happen. As long as these employers have to make employer contributions for legal workers, and have to provide health insurance by 2014, I don't think they will turn away from illegal alien labor anytime soon. Only way this will stop is if the offending employers are hit with hefty fines and/or jail time.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by garciap77
If illegals know that the Border Patrol is going to be patrolling in the places they work at, don't you think they would give up after a few deportations? Let’s say Abilene gets 20 Border Patrol agents to patrol business 24/7, don't you think it would make it almost impossible to work for a business?




Why put the burden and expense of patrolling for illegals on the tax payers? Why not simply pass laws that put the issue directly in the pocket of the people hiring the illegals. If nobody will hire them we won't have to put up walls or hire more border patrol. Without free healthcare, welfare and not jobs they all would soon have no choice but to register for a work visa or go home..........

Putting up walls and hiring more patrol is exactly like what we are doing with the drug war. You can't fight this by stopping the supply-You must address the demand first!

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by garciap77
If illegals know that the Border Patrol is going to be patrolling in the places they work at, don't you think they would give up after a few deportations? Let’s say Abilene gets 20 Border Patrol agents to patrol business 24/7, don't you think it would make it almost impossible to work for a business?

Problem is, the businesses that hire and work illegals arent delt with harshly enough. Lets make the price too high to risk having to pay, then make a few examples of those that take the risk. The illegals would stop coming, if nobody were willing to risk the heavy fines of working them. Illegal aliens arent the problem. American citizens and companies, breaking American laws are the problem. Why dont we just hold them accountable?

[DDBooger]

The peculiarity of this whole health care mess is that essentially the plan the Dems voted in was one constructed by Republicans in the early 90s, proselytized by the Heritage foundation (developer of the MANDATE) and implemented by R-Mitt Romney in Mass. You think lobbying doesn't have power? Democrats just secured 35 million customers for the insurance industry with little cost controls. Startling.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by garciap77
If illegals know that the Border Patrol is going to be patrolling in the places they work at, don't you think they would give up after a few deportations? Let’s say Abilene gets 20 Border Patrol agents to patrol business 24/7, don't you think it would make it almost impossible to work for a business?
Then, all they would do is go to a different crossing place, and work their way further inland......something that is already happening.

I'm partially with FF on this one. Start at the source of the problem, the companies that hire illegals. There has to be stiffer penalties for breaking the law first, before any beefed up patrols will do any good. As long as there is a demand for illegals, there will always BE illegals.

[PPSTATEBOUND]

Geeez..my head hurts...way many big words in here..Is it Miller time yet?.......

oh yeah, I almost forgot

:wave: :wave:

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
We have grown to think of "HEALTHCARE" as a entitlement yet we expect private industry to absorb the cost of that entitlement. .


The problem IMO is healthcare should have never began as a for profit field. Once it did, it is REALLY hard to come back from that.

IMO human life should NOT be about able to afford it.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
The problem IMO is healthcare should have never began as a for profit field. Once it did, it is REALLY hard to come back from that.

IMO human life should NOT be about able to afford it.

:iagree: :iagree: :1omg!: :iagree:

[Pick6]

It wouldn't hurt to have competition across state lines also.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Pick6
It wouldn't hurt to have competition across state lines also. The sad truth is there really isn't much competition at all between insurance companies. They will lower their rates when they need to increase enrollment and then raise them when they want to decrease enrollment.
I never dealt in health insurance, but when I sold life I was astonished at how much info the companies had and shared with each other.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
wht do u mean?

I mean there is a national benefit to having these workers here illegally. People tend to focus on the few that are here freeloading and draining on society and forget about the majority that are here working and spending money our economy with no benefit of being a citizen. Also, several of these guys share a SSN# and have wages withheld for federal income tax, but never file for a return or ever hope to see the social security, medicare, or medicaid available to them. Do you realize the crippling effect it would have on our economy to suddenly remove these income and sales tax contributions as well as the decrease in spending by millions of illegal aliens? Make sense now? Its just something to think about. :)

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by LE Dad
.
I never dealt in health insurance, but when I sold life I was astonished at how much info the companies had and shared with each other. That's globally! The stability of assured profits is better than having someone undercut you. Setting prices and manipulation has gone on for quite some time. Unfortunately, it isn't just OPEC doing it.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Pick6
It wouldn't hurt to have competition across state lines also. Which sounds good in theory, I admit that. However, the most powerful companies will seek ways to price out the smaller insurance providers (w/o lowering cost for the consumer) or buy them out to stymie competition. I believe one of the few things being done bi-partisanly is the repeal of their anti-trust exemption.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
The problem IMO is healthcare should have never began as a for profit field. Once it did, it is REALLY hard to come back from that.

IMO human life should NOT be about able to afford it. +1

And amazed at everyone's civility. The nation could learn a thing or two from us lol ;)

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I mean there is a national benefit to having these workers here illegally. People tend to focus on the few that are here freeloading and draining on society and forget about the majority that are here working and spending money our economy with no benefit of being a citizen. Also, several of these guys share a SSN# and have wages withheld for federal income tax, but never file for a return or ever hope to see the social security, medicare, or medicaid available to them. Do you realize the crippling effect it would have on our economy to suddenly remove these income and sales tax contributions as well as the decrease in spending by millions of illegal aliens? Make sense now? Its just something to think about. :)

You also forget to add that many will live 10-15 in a home so they can send the majority of their money back home. That is why Mexico does not want to fight illegal aliens it would cripple their economy as much or more

DMN a couple years back did an article on a closed gate community in Mexico..all of them had worked 20 years in America illegally sent the majority of their money back to Mexico and retired rich because of the value of the dollar to the peso.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
The problem IMO is healthcare should have never began as a for profit field. Once it did, it is REALLY hard to come back from that.

IMO human life should NOT be about able to afford it.



Human life is over-rated! We need to start being more concerned with the Quality of human life.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I mean there is a national benefit to having these workers here illegally. People tend to focus on the few that are here freeloading and draining on society and forget about the majority that are here working and spending money our economy with no benefit of being a citizen. Also, several of these guys share a SSN# and have wages withheld for federal income tax, but never file for a return or ever hope to see the social security, medicare, or medicaid available to them. Do you realize the crippling effect it would have on our economy to suddenly remove these income and sales tax contributions as well as the decrease in spending by millions of illegal aliens? Make sense now? Its just something to think about. :) Actually I am very familar with the impact they have as 1 of my offices is in Mt. Pleasant, which has a huge illegal population. It is not that they share a SS#, it is more than likely sold to them or stolen from someone else. There is a huge market for SS#s. It is true that some don't file taxes, but they do sell their kids SS# to allow others to file fraudulent tax returns and obtain 1000's in improper EITC per return. Yes if they were not here it would certainly hurt our economy short term but crippling is the way I descibe what happens when an unlicensed,uninsured illegal totals your vehicle.:thinking:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Human life is over-rated! We need to start being more concerned with the Quality of human life.


:thinking:

Pass Health Care Reform; We Lose!


Don't Pass Health Care Reform; We Lose!


:thinking:


So, who wins!

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
:thinking:

Pass Health Care Reform; We Lose!


Don't Pass Health Care Reform; We Lose!


:thinking:


So, who wins! Not us. :thinking:

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Actually I am very familar with the impact they have as 1 of my offices is in Mt. Pleasant, which has a huge illegal population. It is not that they share a SS#, it is more than likely sold to them or stolen from someone else. There is a huge market for SS#s. It is true that some don't file taxes, but they do sell their kids SS# to allow others to file fraudulent tax returns and obtain 1000's in improper EITC per return. Yes if they were not here it would certainly hurt our economy short term but crippling is the way I descibe what happens when an unlicensed,uninsured illegal totals your vehicle.:thinking:

There are more legal unlicensed/uninsured driving! We should deport them too!:D

[garciap77]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Not us. :thinking:

Can somebody just follow the money?:D

[garciap77]

:thinking:

If the Health Care passes; are we going to have to bailout the insurance companies? Just asking, so I can get a part time job to pay for the bailouts!:D

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by garciap77
:thinking:

If the Health Care passes; are we going to have to bailout the insurance companies? Just asking, so I can get a part time job to pay for the bailouts!:D Actually AIG already received a bailout. So yes get ready to do some bailing.:D

and since I am nearing my daily post quota...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Yes if you don't have a license and you are caught, then you should be deported too. :p

[Ranger Mom]

I received a reported post about this thread, so I thought I had better come check it out.

In THIS mod's opinion this has been a very informative CIVIL discussion!!

We haven't always had these "rules" in place, bus as we got to the point that we couldn't seem to reel in the "rabble rousers" we had to make rules.

Gentlemen....I want to congratulate you on keeping your cool, keeping your smart alack comments to a minimum, and respecting the next posters opinion, even if it isn't your own.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I received a reported post about this thread, so I thought I had better come check it out.

In THIS mod's opinion this has been a very informative CIVIL discussion!!

We haven't always had these "rules" in place, bus as we got to the point that we couldn't seem to reel in the "rabble rousers" we had to make rules.

Gentlemen....I want to congratulate you on keeping your cool, keeping your smart alack comments to a minimum, and respecting the next posters opinion, even if it isn't your own.

Tell Keith--"Nice try", and I agree with you RM. :D

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
It's a rather scary thought, but the ol' GreenMonster has been thinking about the new Healthcare Bill and have even had a few discussions about it with colleagues etc. What I've come up with is that Healthcare or even pollitics is not the problem here. The real problem lies in the liability of the Doctors. We need tort reform much worse than we need healthcare reform. If we can do away with the large sums of money that doctors and hospitals pay out in malpractice insurance and cash settlements then the cost of healthcare will drop drastically. There need to be limits on the amount that can be sued for. I understand that the naysayers will say "how do you put a price on a life?" To that I reply you don't. Instead you put a price on the mistake made. Take "life" out of the equation. I know that there are some bad Doctors out there, but they are acting in good faith and doing everything that they can to fix their patients. Instead of allowing lawyers and uninformed juries to determine the severity of the mistake made and determine the amount to be paid out, get retired healthcare professionals to serve on committees that determine how bad the mistake made was or if there was a mistake made at all. With all of the "specialists" in today's world of healthcare it shouldn't be hard to put together a panel of experts for just about any scenario to determine the severity of any mistakes and dole out fines to Doctors in these situations. Let healthcare police itself. Get the insurance companies and the lawyers out of our medical bills and prices will drop. Unfortunately most of our representation at the national level of our government are themselves lawyers and they refuse to consider tort reform because they do not want to remove the silver spoon from their own mouths or any of their professional colleague's mouths. So tort reform is nothing more than pie in the sky, but in my opinion we would get a whole lot better and cheaper care without the major government involvement that might cost out country over a trillion dollars in it's first 10 years alone.

This may not have anything to do with what you are saying, but we got my granddaughter's hospital bill in from the hospital in Lubbock a few days ago.

My son just started a new job and isn't eligible for insurance for 90 days....so as of right now, my granddaughter is uninsured.

Her bill in Lubbock was $1464.98 and there was a "self pay" credit of $577.64...leaving the total bill at $887.31.

Why would they charge the insurance company more than they would us..if she HAD been insured?

Don't get me wrong...we were thankful!!

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
This may not have anything to do with what you are saying, but we got my granddaughter's hospital bill in from the hospital in Lubbock a few days ago.

My son just started a new job and isn't eligible for insurance for 90 days....so as of right now, my granddaughter is uninsured.

Her bill in Lubbock was $1464.98 and there was a "self pay" credit of $577.64...leaving the total bill at $887.31.

Why would they charge the insurance company more than they would us..if she HAD been insured?

Don't get me wrong...we were thankful!! You are billed less because the hospital expects to recoup 100% of the money you owe. When they deal with insurance they have discounts, co pays, billing codes, denials and a million other things that could alter or reduce the amount the hospital will ultimately receive.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by LE Dad
You are billed less because the hospital expects to recoup 100% of the money you owe. When they deal with insurance they have discounts, co pays, billing codes, denials and a million other things that could alter or reduce the amount the hospital will ultimately receive.

Gotcha!!!

I see that this thread is now closed.......oops!!!

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Gotcha!!!

I see that this thread is now closed.......oops!!!

Now it's not!!:thinking:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Now it's not!!:thinking:
I was reading it "just in case" and thought it'd be good to close it "just in case". :D Looks like you had read it "just in case" too. ;)

[Keith7]

:wave: :1popcorn:

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I was reading it "just in case" and thought it'd be good to close it "just in case". :D Looks like you had read it "just in case" too. ;)

Thank goodness....I thought my eyes were finally going-going-GONE!!!

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I was reading it "just in case" and thought it'd be good to close it "just in case". :D Looks like you had read it "just in case" too. ;) Wow.:doh: I thought I posted something BAAAD cause it was closed right after my post..:D

[Keith7]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Wow.:doh: I thought I posted something BAAAD cause it was closed right after my post..:D

:lies: :fnypost: :vrycnfsd:

[garciap77]

:D

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Tell Keith--"Nice try", and I agree with you RM. :D
That right there is a "make it look like you're taking the high road" taunt toward another poster if I've ever seen one. Ranger Mom had just said she was impressed with the way this thread has went, so why not simply agree with her and leave Keith alone?

To keith7's credit however, he's been on here since without addressing your post.
Looks like there's hope for this board after all!:clap:

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
That right there is a "make it look like you're taking the high road" taunt toward another poster if I've ever seen one. Ranger Mom had just said she was impressed with the way this thread has went, so why not simply agree with her and leave Keith alone?

To keith7's credit however, he's been on here since without addressing your post.
Looks like there's hope for this board after all!:clap:

:helpme: :helpme: :helpme:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Keith7
:helpme: :helpme: :helpme: :D

[carter08]

Quick observation:

If everyone is required to buy health care, do you think the majority of illegal immigrants will purchase it too?

I don't see that happening. I also see a potential future where hospitals find some loopholes to not treat people without insurance. If everyone has to have it, they'll find a way to deny service to people who don't have it. Not saying whether that is good or bad though. It could be an incentive for more legal immigration.

While I'm a little iffy on forcing everyone to buy something, I think the good here outweighs the bad. No more dropped coverage, no denial of coverage for a preexisting condition, extension of coverage to children until they're 26. Lots of great things about this bill.

[TheDOCTORdre]

threads that dont have reason to get closed have no place for me:mad:

[NateDawg39]

If you don't want the healthcare, you can justify it on religious grounds supposedly.

:thinking:

Then that might be the area where they deny a person entrance to the hospitals.

[Blastoderm55]

Originally posted by waterboy
....But, all they do to the illegals is send them back, only for them to try crossing again. There needs to actually be some sort of real punishment to keep this cycle from recurring.....don't ya think?

Indeed, punish the employers, not the illegals.

Actually, punish them both.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by carter08
I think the good here outweighs the bad. No more dropped coverage, no denial of coverage for a preexisting condition, extension of coverage to children until they're 26. Lots of great things about this bill. Those few items are good, but they could be accomplised much easier. This legislation is a 20,000 page outline and has alot more unknowns than knowns. The one thing that I do know that is bad and outweighs any good that might be in this bill is the use of the IRS for enforcement. The people responsible for making a simple matter such as taxation a jumbled mess are now going to have a role in healthcare?? Bad idea.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by LE Dad
Those few items are good, but they could be accomplised much easier. This legislation is a 20,000 page outline and has alot more unknowns than knowns. The one thing that I do know that is bad and outweighs any good that might be in this bill is the use of the IRS for enforcement. The people responsible for making a simple matter such as taxation a jumbled mess are now going to have a role in healthcare?? Bad idea.

:thmbdwn: :thmbdwn: :crazy: :crazy: :blahblah: