Athletes and the American Flag ...

[JJWalker]

This is a question of etiquette ... I suppose ...

I have been watching the Winter Olympics ever now and then. I know ... I know ... I am a hypocrite. But, since most of my favorite television shows have been pre-empted ... what is a guy to do?

However ...

Is it OK to drape yourself in the American flag?

Doesn't it seem wrong?

I thought I was taught the only time you are to be draped with the American flag is if you gave the ultimate sacrifice or were a former soldier that has lived out his life and is now joining your brothers.

Have I missed a Civics lesson?

[Bullaholic]

My opinion would be that as long as you treat the flag with respect and don't soil it---fly it, wave it, or wear it anytime you like.

[crzyjournalist03]

I've seen a couple of flags hit the ground during celebrations...I've jumped in shock every time I've seen it.

[JJWalker]

I love the American flag waving ...

Wear it as a patch on the proper shoulder ... great.

But don't wad it up ... mop up your sweat ... wipe your tears of joy with it ... let it hit the ground ... toss it around ... or wear it as a face hankie/bandana!

I personally hate seeing the American Flag worn as a cape or neckerchief.

Makes my gut twist.

Grab up any other country's flag and disrespect it all you want at your soccer match, but if you want to dance around in something and make a jerk out of yourself as an American ... wear BUNTING!

But please .... wear the bunting with blue at the top!

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
My opinion would be that as long as you treat the flag with respect and don't soil it---fly it, wave it, or wear it anytime you like. x2

[Pendragon13]

Surely I'm not the only one that noticed speed skater Shani Davis being the only American athlete (so far) that hasn't placed his hand on his heart during the national anthem? Maybe he's just following the example of our president..

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Pendragon13
Surely I'm not the only one that noticed speed skater Shani Davis being the only American athlete (so far) that hasn't placed his hand on his heart during the national anthem? Maybe he's just following the example of our president..

Shaun White played air guitar during the national anthem last night...I thought that was extremely disrespectful.

[Green Bling]

Originally posted by JJWalker
I love the American flag waving ...

Wear it as a patch on the proper shoulder ... great.

But don't wad it up ... mop up your sweat ... wipe your tears of joy with it ... let it hit the ground ... toss it around ... or wear it as a face hankie/bandana!

I personally hate seeing the American Flag worn as a cape or neckerchief.

Makes my gut twist.

Grab up any other country's flag and disrespect it all you want at your soccer match, but if you want to dance around in something and make a jerk out of yourself as an American ... wear BUNTING!

But please .... wear the bunting with blue at the top!
The Olympians are instructed to carry the flag, but to not drape it over themselves. They may hold it stretched out behind their shoulders, but aren't in any way to wear the flag. My "sideways" nephew was an Olympic high jumper in Beijing, and that is what he said they were told. It just seems that with each passing O Games that flag etiquette gets watered down more and more. It bothers me, too. I also wish the American gold medalists would sing the National Anthem. It just isn't appropriate to be waving to the crowd during it's playing.

[Txbroadcaster]

I am not going to pass judgemnt on someone because in the moment of reaching what is probably a life long goal they wrap up in the flag in pure joy that they won not only for themself but their country

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I am not going to pass judgemnt on someone because in the moment of reaching what is probably a life long goal they wrap up in the flag in pure joy that they won not only for themself but their country

:ditto: :iagree:

[JJWalker]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I am not going to pass judgemnt on someone because in the moment of reaching what is probably a life long goal they wrap up in the flag in pure joy that they won not only for themself but their country
I can see that point of view too.

However ...
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/f2/7f/993787414a94b05fd04c6909dbf0.jpeg
I find him, "Guilty!" :(

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by JJWalker
I can see that point of view too.

However ...
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/f2/7f/993787414a94b05fd04c6909dbf0.jpeg
I find him, "Guilty!" :(

I just dont see a problem with that picture.

[jason]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I just dont see a problem with that picture. me neither

[3afan]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
My opinion would be that as long as you treat the flag with respect and don't soil it---fly it, wave it, or wear it anytime you like.

:thumbsup:

[big daddy russ]

I still open the door for my wife (and all women) and take my hat off at the dinner table or when I meet a lady. Very few people, and that includes Texans, do that anymore.

It's just a different way of doing things. If I was going go get upset about the flag, my sensibilities would force me to get upset about these instances and tons of other little instances in life. But I don't. Because it's not they're they're disrespecting women (or the flag for that matter). It's just that they have a different way of doing things. I actually think respect for women is at an all-time high despite no more open doors or tips of the caps, and those instances on the podium after a win when they're celebrating with a flag draped around their shoulders actually seems like a show of pride to me.

They don't seem to be truly 'soiling' it in my opinion, it's just a different way of doing things than we're used to. There's no guarantee I wouldn't throw all my sensibilities out the window if I won a gold medal, too.

[BullsFan]

I realize that going to the Olympics is in no way comparable to someone who has served in the Armed Services or fought in a war. However, they have all given up countless hours and their own blood, sweat, and tears to get to where they are, and where they are is competing with athletes from around the world for love of the sport and their country. And as such, I'm willing to give them a little leeway if, in their exuberance at winning and pride in their country, they don't hold to the most exact standards when it comes to flag etiquette.

Having said that, I myself have never served in the Armed Services or fought in a war, and I totally understand people having different opinions about what's appropriate here.

[Sweetwater Red]

There is nothing wrong with an American draping themselves in
an American flag and to think there is something wrong with it
is just plain silly.

Now, this on the other hand, is what really pisses me off! :mad:

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg53/detroit8990/Pakistanis20burning20US20Flag.jpg

[bandera7]

draping in the american flag doesnt bother me. but dropping it, regardless, kind of does. I feel like you need to be extremely respectful and careful. however, as long as you dont drop it, I dont care much what you do with it in your celebration.

[Phil C]

That picture on Rolling Stone is a big disgrace! I am going to cancel my subscription.

:mad:

[BaseballUmp]

For my 500th post,


I Love America!!!

[icu812]

Originally posted by Pendragon13
Surely I'm not the only one that noticed speed skater Shani Davis being the only American athlete (so far) that hasn't placed his hand on his heart during the national anthem? Maybe he's just following the example of our president..

I saw that jerk and as I was watching I was hoping the other American medalist would push his sorry xxx off the podium. I wouldn't let them participate unless the hand went over the heart. That goes for all the pro's as well. Its a cultural thing I don't approve of. Disrespectful and shameful in my book. Ok, I feel better :D

[JJWalker]

I am willing to admit that I may be a bit hyper-sensitive to behavior.

I watch people wearing their pants with their underwear showing and feel ashamed, eventhough it really is really no reflection on myself. However, I do belong to groups, one of them American, and I am proud of that fact.

So, it does make me feel ashamed when my people, behave in a way that is against the rules, official, unoffical or even generational.

Americans do not wear the flag. Why? Because it is against the rules.

I believe our behavior as Americans needs to be better than the others. Even if we fail to be better from time to time, overall, we strive to be better as a Nation.

[Additup]

Originally posted by icu812
I saw that jerk and as I was watching I was hoping the other American medalist would push his sorry xxx off the podium... Disrespectful and shameful in my book.
I just found this on US flag etiquette - guess I've been doing it wrong too:

I was taught to put my hand over my heart for the Pledge of Allegiance, but not for the National Anthem.
While in my Uniform I salute during the Pledge, but I sing during the National Anthem, with my arms at my side.

While I do not know if this is wrong or right, it is what I have been doing for over 40 years.

When I searched around on the internet, I found a lot of different answers. This one seems to be as definitive as I can find--from the Cornell University Law School Legal Information Institute updated to 2/19/2009 at the address below:


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00000301----000-.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE UNITED STATES CODE

title 36
subtitle I
part A
chapter 3
§ (subsection ?) 301

§ 301. National anthem

(a) Designation.- The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.- During a rendition of the national anthem-

(1) when the flag is displayed-

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

(B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

[coach]

Originally posted by JJWalker
I can see that point of view too.

However ...
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/f2/7f/993787414a94b05fd04c6909dbf0.jpeg
I find him, "Guilty!" :(

he's git a big belly button

[Green Bling]

Originally posted by BaseballUmp
For my 500th post,


I Love America!!!
Congrats on making Letterman!!:cheerl:

[TexMike]

Originally posted by Pendragon13
Surely I'm not the only one that noticed speed skater Shani Davis being the only American athlete (so far) that hasn't placed his hand on his heart during the national anthem? Maybe he's just following the example of our president..

Perhaps you have not seen many award ceremonies this week because his act was unfortunately NOT an isolated incident. It has been far too common. Maybe by now all the angry emails flowing into the USOC will spur them to do something about the behavior.

Shaun White: http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=712f83b2-a25a-4dcf-898d-f9b3922fc33c.html#medal+ceremony+mens+halfpipe

Seth Wescott:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=7d064419-10ab-44bc-9a35-993dc9491193.html#medal+ceremony+mens+snowboard+cr oss

Hannah Kearney:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/assetid=c6a779aa-3dee-4d9a-9dd5-6458ad7baf2b.html#medal+ceremony+womens+moguls

[SintonPirateFan]

i have noticed for the most part every other country who has their national anthem played, actually SINGS with the music. i have yet to see one American gold medalist sing when the flag is raised and the national anthem is played. i'm afraid the Americans see it more as "their" moment than a proud moment for America. just more of a "me" generation.

i also find it very disrespectful for anyone (like sports figures) jumping and moving around during the nat'l anthem. maybe it's just my military background, but when the national anthem is being played, and the flag is being raised, that is representing our country. their have been, and will continue to be, hundreds of thousands of men and women who have died so that we can keep the freedom to raise that flag and play that anthem....the LEAST we can do is stand still with our hand over our heart for the (roughly) 2 minutes the anthem is being played.

[BullsFan]

I have to admit I find it a little disappointing that I haven't seen a single American gold medalist sing either. And I don't think it's a "me" moment vs. a "for my country" moment. I just think they don't know the words. In prior years I have seen American athletes fumble a bit with the words. Seriously, how long can it take to learn them?

As to moving around, the only ones I can remember seeing do that are the two Canadians who won gold in ice dancing last night, and I think they were literally so exuberant they couldn't stand still. They were singing with so much enthusiasm it was fun to watch, so I don't begrudge them their bouncing.

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by BullsFan
I have to admit I find it a little disappointing that I haven't seen a single American gold medalist sing either. And I don't think it's a "me" moment vs. a "for my country" moment. I just think they don't know the words. In prior years I have seen American athletes fumble a bit with the words. Seriously, how long can it take to learn them?

As to moving around, the only ones I can remember seeing do that are the two Canadians who won gold in ice dancing last night, and I think they were literally so exuberant they couldn't stand still. They were singing with so much enthusiasm it was fun to watch, so I don't begrudge them their bouncing.

the "moving around" reference was for any athlete, any sport, any PERSON really.

and another thing.....TAKE YOUR @*#&*^ HAT OFF!!!

[SintonPirateFan]

i was glad to see....i cant remember if it was shaun white or bode miller....i think it was miller.....remove his cap before the flag was raised.

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
the "moving around" reference was for any athlete, any sport, any PERSON really.

and another thing.....TAKE YOUR @*#&*^ HAT OFF!!! Im all for respecting the flag and giving salute when it is raised. Military life gives it an entire new meaning when you hear any song played about our great nation.

I just never quite understood the "real reason" for removing your hat during the song. What if you had a hat that looked like the flag? :confused:

[SintonPirateFan]

Originally posted by NateDawg39
Im all for respecting the flag and giving salute when it is raised. Military life gives it an entire new meaning when you hear any song played about our great nation.

I just never quite understood the "real reason" for removing your hat during the song. What if you had a hat that looked like the flag? :confused:


sign of respect. and a hat that looks like the flag (IMO) is disrespectful to the flag. any clothing with the flag on it is, to me. and charlie daniels agrees with me!

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
sign of respect. and a hat that looks like the flag (IMO) is disrespectful to the flag. any clothing with the flag on it is, to me. and charlie daniels agrees with me! Right I know it is out of respect, I just wondered if it started at some point or is something that was "chivalrous" in general

[SintonPirateFan]

i think it's been around forever. proper ettiquette.. n stuff.

[BullsFan]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
the "moving around" reference was for any athlete, any sport, any PERSON really.

and another thing.....TAKE YOUR @*#&*^ HAT OFF!!!

LOL...when I first read this, I thought that last part was directed at me.

You know, it used to be proper etiquette to take your hat off in many situations. When being introduced to someone, when entering a building, etc. Now I see a lot of guys who never remove their hats. I wonder if it's because hats are so much more casual now than they used to be.

[NateDawg39]

Yeah, kinda like when you enter a home you remove your cover for the "master" of the house. Old timely stuff ;)

[SintonPirateFan]

Flag Etiquette (http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html)

[BullsFan]

Originally posted by NateDawg39
Yeah, kinda like when you enter a home you remove your cover for the "master" of the house. Old timely stuff ;)

Hey, now. You best be watching it with that "old" stuff. I'd hate to have to pull out my Mean Teacher Voice. ;)

[XtremeCouture]

I see no problem in not putting your hand over your heart for the national anthem. Putting your hand over your heart is intended for the Pledge of Allegiance. Kind of like putting your hand on the Bible when you're sworn in. The national anthem is just a song about America.

[Green Bling]

Flag etiquette isn't something that comes in and out of fashion. If we chose to modify how we show respect for our flag AND WHAT OUR FLAG REPRESENTS, that doesn't mean we are right. This official website answers a lot of these questions.

http://www.usa-flag-site.org/etiquette.shtml

Or to simplify, here's a kids site. :)

http://www.kidskonnect.com/subject-index/29-social-studies/355-american-flag.html

[Old Tiger]

Originally posted by JJWalker
I can see that point of view too.

However ...
http://multimedia.thestar.com/images/f2/7f/993787414a94b05fd04c6909dbf0.jpeg
I find him, "Guilty!" :( I see one of the greatest extreme sport stars ever living the American dream.

[carter08]

AMURICA! YEAH!

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/content/images/kritiken-filmbilder/team-america-world-police/team-america-world-police-1.jpg