CLIMATEGATE what a mess.

[BILLYFRED0000]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-234092--.html

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-234092--.html http://s.bebo.com/app-image/7925430232/5411656627/PROFILE/i.quizzaz.com/img/q/u/08/04/02/retard404.jpg

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-234092--.html

http://joanharvest.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/who-wants-to-be-a-dumbass.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Apparently we are effecting Mars as well...

link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece)

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

...

[JasperDog94]

Must be all those Martians flying around in their CO2 producing flying saucers.:D :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Must be all those Martians flying around in their CO2 producing flying saucers.:D :D

http://hometeamnj.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/idiot-picture.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
http://hometeamnj.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/idiot-picture.jpg Proof positive why we cannot have these kinds of discussions.:rolleyes:

[BILLYFRED0000]

I just love it when an ad hominem attack plan comes together. At
Least I posted facts.

Oh BTW, Dr. Phil Jones of email gate said that no warming of statistical significance has occured since 1995 and that it was probably warmer 800 to 1300 ad than it is now this weekend. oops.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I just love it when an ad hominem attack plan comes together. At
Least I posted facts.

Oh BTW, Dr. Phil Jones of email gate said that no warming of statistical significance has occured since 1995 and that it was probably warmer 800 to 1300 ad than it is now this weekend. oops.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I just love it when an ad hominem attack plan comes together. At
Least I posted facts.

Oh BTW, Dr. Phil Jones of email gate said that no warming of statistical significance has occured since 1995 and that it was probably warmer 800 to 1300 ad than it is now this weekend. oops. Wasn't he the leading Man-Caused Global Warming scientist over the past decade?

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
I just love it when an ad hominem attack plan comes together. At
Least I posted facts.

Oh BTW, Dr. Phil Jones of email gate said that no warming of statistical significance has occured since 1995 and that it was probably warmer 800 to 1300 ad than it is now this weekend. oops. http://images.paraorkut.com/img/funnypics/images/y/you_fail-12825.jpg

[carter08]

I believe in Global Warming because the warming of the Earth supports innovation and crop growth.

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Apparently we are effecting Mars as well...

link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece)

Mars is being hit by rapid climate change and it is happening so fast that the red planet could lose its southern ice cap, writes Jonathan Leake.

Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period.

Since there is no known life on Mars it suggests rapid changes in planetary climates could be natural phenomena.

...

I knew that historians were more knowledgeable about this phenomenon than scientists. :D The now frozen island of Greenland was once actually green and covered with plantlife. Historians have said this for several years. Archealogical digs on sites believed to have been Viking settlements have shown that over the course of several hundred years the Viking diet changed from muton or sheep (which require grasslands to graze) based diet to a cod fish based diet (cod are found only in certain water temperature ranges) to the settlements being vacated. We know that the nearest current cod fishery to Greenland is several hundred miles away which would make fishing trips extremely long and arduous for the Vikings in order to sustain life on Greenland. We also know that the current cod fishery is gradually moving back further to the north. As water temperatures in the north Atlantic rise the weather on Greenland gets more and more mild and the snow and ice disappear. It is also common historical knowledge that Europe went through what has been described as a mini-ice age in the 1700's and many historians believe that our current warming trend is simply further recovery from this mini-ice age.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Wasn't he the leading Man-Caused Global Warming scientist over the past decade?

yes.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
yes.

http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/gifs/stupid.jpeg

[JasperDog94]

...now where is that thread ban option...

[waterboy]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
...now where is that thread ban option...
Check at the bottom right-hand side of the page.:D There's several options available.....;)

[Black_Magic]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0prytYGt8i4/RvNOz5E1jxI/AAAAAAAAAao/cX0gz0vJMAk/s320/ostrich-head+in+sand.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0prytYGt8i4/RvNOz5E1jxI/AAAAAAAAAao/cX0gz0vJMAk/s320/ostrich-head+in+sand.jpg That's exactly what the man-made global warming folks are doing. Despite all the fabricated evidence that has been exposed, they continue to promote this false theology.:crazy1:

[waterboy]

You think Al Gore is making money off of this global warming thing?:doh:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by waterboy
You think Al Gore is making money off of this global warming thing?:doh: Follow the money.

[Black_Magic]

yep its all made up.
http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/polar/images/ice_compare.jpg

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
yep its all made up.
http://www.divediscover.whoi.edu/polar/images/ice_compare.jpg Ebb and flow my friend, ebb and flow. It's happened before and it will happen again.

[waterboy]

I still don't see the proof that global warming is caused by man. There are natural cycles to temperature changes that have been going on for eons. Why is it that all of a sudden it's caused by man?

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by waterboy
You think Al Gore is making money off of this global warming thing?:doh: LOADS and LOADS... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I suggest that he makes so much money that they are increasing printing operations, which is increasing greenhouse gases and significantly increasing Global warming.:evillol: :evillol:

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by waterboy
I still don't see the proof that global warming is caused by man. There are natural cycles to temperature changes that have been going on for eons. Why is it that all of a sudden it's caused by man?

That is essentially the arguement. It is not. And now since they have finally admitted that the midevial times had warmer temps than now it refutes man made as the primary motivator in warming and since they have admitted that the temp data is flawed that there is no signficant warming in the last 15 years and in fact may be cooling. the satellite info would indicate that that has been true since 1981 cooliing I mean.

The big arguement has been the guy that created the satellite measuring temps saying that the satellites which are much more accurate do not agree with ground based temps. Now that noas has admitted that they have elimated 4500 ground stations mostly from cooler regions and the russians have found that almost all of their cold weather regions are not reported it means that the temp data gathered on the ground is biased to land use areas that are artificially warmer. One instance recorded found a temp measuring station next to an incenorator for example.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by waterboy
I still don't see the proof that global warming is caused by man. There are natural cycles to temperature changes that have been going on for eons. Why is it that all of a sudden it's caused by man? Because there is money to be made by increased regulation. You need a new monitor for your emissions? Senator Sonso has a son in law in that business. Go figure:rolleyes:

[carter08]

Originally posted by waterboy
I still don't see the proof that global warming is caused by man. There are natural cycles to temperature changes that have been going on for eons. Why is it that all of a sudden it's caused by man?

Thinking rationally here though, even if humans don't cause global warming, they do cause the release of carbon monoxide and other harmful chemicals into the atmosphere that could, over time, do a lot of harm to the ecosystem.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by carter08
Thinking rationally here though, even if humans don't cause global warming, they do cause the release of carbon monoxide and other harmful chemicals into the atmosphere that could, over time, do a lot of harm to the ecosystem. You are correct. We do produce harmful emissions which do require some regulation, but to go to the extremes that some groups want is totally out of the realm of rational thought.

[carter08]

Originally posted by LE Dad
You are correct. We do produce harmful emissions which do require some regulation, but to go to the extremes that some groups want is totally out of the realm of rational thought.

Not at all out of the realm of rational thought, just too radical to implement immediately like they want to. The changes have to be done very gradually if you want widespread support instead of anger and frustration.

[Keith7]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Nasa-giss_1880-2009_global_temperature.png/800px-Nasa-giss_1880-2009_global_temperature.png
Lets compare this to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and see what we come up with..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg/800px-Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg.png
Coincidence? I doubt it..

Just a solar cycle? Lets see..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Solar-cycle-data.png
Nope doesn't look like it

But is the earth really heating up? I mean it snowed the other day didn't it?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Glacier_Mass_Balance.png
Oh I guess it is :(

Well warming trends happen all the time! This is just another one of those right?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
Oh this is the largest warming ever in the history of the earth and it began during the industrial revolution? Ha I still don't believe it. They just want my money and my 4x4 dooly ford pickem up truck. I aint believing them for nuthin. Instead I'm going to post links to conservative websites and pretend I found some great break through

[BILLYFRED0000]

The big arguement has been the guy that created the satellite measuring temps saying that the satellites which are much more accurate do not agree with ground based temps. Now that noas has admitted that they have elimated 4500 ground stations mostly from cooler regions and the russians have found that almost all of their cold weather regions are not reported it means that the temp data gathered on the ground is biased to land use areas that are artificially warmer. One instance recorded found a temp measuring station next to an incenorator for example.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by waterboy
You think Al Gore is making money off of this global warming thing?:doh:

You think conservatives are having fun throwing down reeses pieces and watching the dopes follow? :doh:

[Keith7]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
The big arguement has been the guy that created the satellite measuring temps saying that the satellites which are much more accurate do not agree with ground based temps. Now that noas has admitted that they have elimated 4500 ground stations mostly from cooler regions and the russians have found that almost all of their cold weather regions are not reported it means that the temp data gathered on the ground is biased to land use areas that are artificially warmer. One instance recorded found a temp measuring station next to an incenorator for example.

OOOH ok so all the millions of scientists and professors that agree with global warming are just using the wrong satellite?

give me a break

[Black_Magic]

sad . very sad. I have said this before. what are the downside of listening to those scientist who say we are damaging the climate of the WORLD... cost some money. THAT IS IF THEY ARE WRONG. ok...what are positives?? cleaner air and planet... What are the risks of being wrong for those who doubt it?? Devistated planet and an end to our way of life... Big gamble on a hope your right IMO. On one side you have everything to lose and on the other you have some money to lose.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Keith7
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Nasa-giss_1880-2009_global_temperature.png/800px-Nasa-giss_1880-2009_global_temperature.png
Lets compare this to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and see what we come up with..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/51/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg/800px-Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide-en.svg.png
Coincidence? I doubt it..

Just a solar cycle? Lets see..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Solar-cycle-data.png
Nope doesn't look like it

But is the earth really heating up? I mean it snowed the other day didn't it?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Glacier_Mass_Balance.png
Oh I guess it is :(

Well warming trends happen all the time! This is just another one of those right?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png
Oh this is the largest warming ever in the history of the earth and it began during the industrial revolution? Ha I still don't believe it. They just want my money and my 4x4 dooly ford pickem up truck. I aint believing them for nuthin. Instead I'm going to post links to conservative websites and pretend I found some great break through

Hey Kevin. None of the temp data gained on the ground is valid. It is contaminated. That means fabricated in case you missed it.
This has been proven as fact. So sorry. Throw out your old charts and try again. This is not some conservative retread arguement. The chinese russians and american data has not retrieved most or all of their cold weather reporting stations and only the warm weather for the most part. The satellite data is not included.

[JasperDog94]

The problem, my good friend Keith, is that much of the data used to construct your pretty graphs and charts has either gone missing or has been show to be false.

There is a false assumption that conservatives hate the environment. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want clean air and clean water. The problem is I don't want to totally destroy the United States economy in the name of false science and good intentions.

Given enough time and breakthroughs in technology, much of what the environmentalists want can be accomplished without more taxes and regulation.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
Hey Kevin. None of the temp data gained on the ground is valid. It is contaminated. That means fabricated in case you missed it.
This has been proven as fact. So sorry. Throw out your old charts and try again. This is not some conservative retread arguement. The chinese russians and american data has not retrieved most or all of their cold weather reporting stations and only the warm weather for the most part. The satellite data is not included.

Hey Jimmy. I forgot you are a satellite engineer, thanks for the heads up. You are the best scientist in the world thanks for the profound message on global warming. You have such great proof that the satellites that prove global warming is real are really broke and I am changing my stance now..

GIVE ME A BREAK

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Keith7
Hey Jimmy. I forgot you are a satellite engineer, thanks for the heads up. You are the best scientist in the world thanks for the profound message on global warming. You have such great proof that the satellites that prove global warming is real that I am changing my stance now..

GIVE ME A BREAK

Hey I am just reporting what has been reported by Dr. Phil Jones himself over in England. You know Climate gate. He said that the temps in 800 to 1300 were warmer and no warming has occurred since 1995. go argue with him if you like. But he was and is one of the leading proponents of man made global warming and did his best to hide those facts. oops.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
The problem, my good friend Keith, is that much of the data used to construct your pretty graphs and charts has either gone missing or has been show to be false.

There is a false assumption that conservatives hate the environment. Nothing could be further from the truth. I want clean air and clean water. The problem is I don't want to totally destroy the United States economy in the name of false science and good intentions.

Given enough time and breakthroughs in technology, much of what the environmentalists want can be accomplished without more taxes and regulation.

I'm not going to sit here and post links but there is plenty of data to back up the graphs I posted.

I'm not saying conservatives hate the environment. I'm saying conservatives hate democrats and will do anything to prove them wrong, even if it means hurting the American people. Now that is a proven fact

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Keith7
I'm not going to sit here and post links but there is plenty of data to back up the graphs I posted.

I'm not saying conservatives hate the environment. I'm saying conservatives hate democrats and will do anything to prove them wrong, even if it means hurting the American people. Now that is a proven fact

And you just hate the fact that all those charts are now flawed since the temp data has been disproved. It may be warming but man has nothing to do with it and that was and are the facts.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by BILLYFRED0000
And you just hate the fact that all those charts are now flawed since the temp data has been disproved. It may be warming but man has nothing to do with it and that was and are the facts.

You can't actually say they are flawed just because you turned to fox news one day and some "scientist" was saying they are.. I really thought you'd be smarter than that.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Keith7


GIVE ME A BREAK I thought you had one of those? And it is now called "climate change" not global warming. They found out "global warming" is a hard term to use while half the world is freezing their arse off in the middle of winter.

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by Keith7
I'm not going to sit here and post links but there is plenty of data to back up the graphs I posted.

I'm not saying conservatives hate the environment. I'm saying conservatives hate democrats and will do anything to prove them wrong, even if it means hurting the American people. Now that is a proven fact

Actually, I am pretty certain you've got it backwards but that seems right for you. Libs have done far less for the advancement of our society despite your "proven fact". By the way aren't all facts proven???? :confused:

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Keith7
I'm not going to sit here and post links but there is plenty of data to back up the graphs I posted.

I'm not saying conservatives hate the environment. I'm saying conservatives hate democrats and will do anything to prove them wrong, even if it means hurting the American people. Now that is a proven fact

Ridiculous. Every cause you ever supported or condemned is right down clear-cut political lines.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I thought you had one of those? And it is now called "climate change" not global warming. They found out "global warming" is a hard term to use while half the world is freezing their arse off in the middle of winter.

Thats the funny thing about winter.. It gets cold doesn't it?

GIVE ME A BREAK

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Ridiculous. Every cause you ever supported or condemned is right down clear-cut political lines.

I never said I was bi-partisan in my posts, I'm just saying that conservatives are more worried about their political agenda than the well being of American citizens. Its true across the board. Healthcare, welfare, the wars and even global warming

[bigwood33]

Originally posted by Keith7
I never said I was bi-partisan in my posts, I'm just saying that conservatives are more worried about their political agenda than the well being of American citizens. Its true across the board. Healthcare, welfare, the wars and even global warming
And libs don't have an agenda that is self serving?:thinking:

[SintonPirateFan]

so....relating this to SPORTS.... does this mean we will be seeing more domes built for high school football teams?


seriously, this is ridiculous. no one on here is going to convince the other side to change their mind. this thread is just for people to rant about how ignorant the other side is and show off how many websites and graphs they have read.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Keith7


I'm saying conservatives hate democrats and will do anything to prove them wrong, even if it means hurting the American people. Now that is a proven fact I do not hate Democrats. I am very indifferent to them and their ideas, unless their ideas cause conflict with what I believe. Gun control, abortion, national health care and so on. Stay out of my wallet and personal business and we will be just fine. Now it is not just a Dem problem, but both parties. True conservative values are becoming as hard to find as polar ice caps.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan


seriously, this is ridiculous. no one on here is going to convince the other side to change their mind. this thread is just for people to rant about how ignorant the other side is and show off how many websites and graphs they have read.

Thats why I normally try to stay out of these threads now but BBDE and that 80 person were making the global warming crowd look like fools

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Keith7
Thats why I normally try to stay out of these threads now but BBDE and that 80 person were making the global warming crowd look like fools :clap: :clap: :clap: Thats funny stuff right there.:D

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Keith7
Thats why I normally try to stay out of these threads now but BBDE and that 80 person were making the global warming crowd look like fools

They might of tried to make them look like fools, but you confirmed it.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Keith7
Thats why I normally try to stay out of these threads now but BBDE and that 80 person were making the global warming crowd look like fools

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/lget5010%252Bhomer-simpson-stupid-like-a-fox-the-simpsons-poster-card.jpg

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
:doh:

[Black_Magic]

Originally posted by Keith7
You can't actually say they are flawed just because you turned to fox news one day and some "scientist" was saying they are.. I really thought you'd be smarter than that. Didnt you know Keith7?? Fox New is the only true "news" channel. the other 5 to 7 are just propaganda:rolleyes: Fox News cracks me up. better than the comedy channel

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I do not hate Democrats. I am very indifferent to them and their ideas, unless their ideas cause conflict with what I believe. Gun control, abortion, national health care and so on. Stay out of my wallet and personal business and we will be just fine. Now it is not just a Dem problem, but both parties. True conservative values are becoming as hard to find as polar ice caps.


Democrats have NEVER said they were going to take away guns from anybody. That's just stupid to think. Abortion is a right that is allotted in the Constitution and it's not going to change, and there is no Republican who is going to change it. They will say, "I'm against abortion" but never do a damn thing about it because they can't. Further, Democrats don't take from your wallet nearly as much as Republicans do. Maybe you've been too stupid to notice the structure of supply-side economics and it's implementation by Republicans. And in the same time when these alleged "tax cuts" are being handed down to common American citizens, fees and state and local taxes are increasing at just as fast of a rate. The government does have a bottom line and it will take the same from you regardless of what Fox News will tell you. You want to talk about your personal business? We lost more individual rights and liberties under Bush than we have at any single point within the past century. What has been taken away by Democrats? You have been sorely misled and I pity your ignorance, really, I do.

[carter08]

Originally posted by Black_Magic
Didnt you know Keith7?? Fox New is the only true "news" channel. the other 5 to 7 are just propaganda:rolleyes: Fox News cracks me up. better than the comedy channel

Fox News isn't bad the 5% of the time they actually report news.

Just the 95% of the time that they have talking heads yelling about politics.

Only 85% of CNN is bad, because the 10% that constitutes Larry King is wonderful.

[turbostud]

How come the new moderator hasnt shut this thread down?

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by Keith7
You can't actually say they are flawed just because you turned to fox news one day and some "scientist" was saying they are.. I really thought you'd be smarter than that.

It is not some scientist but I will not post all the links to the different issues about the data being flawed. so sorry. I did it once today but not again.

Here is one tidbit for you.

RussiaGate – Even when global warming alarmists base claims on scientific measurements, they've often had their finger on the scale. Russian think tank investigators evaluated thousands of documents and e-mails leaked from the East Anglia research center and concluded readings from the coldest regions of their nation had been omitted, driving average temperatures up about half a degree.

Russia-Gate II – Speaking of Russia, a presentation last October to the Geological Society of America showed how tree-ring data from Russia indicated cooling after 1961, but was deceptively truncated and only artfully discussed in IPCC publications. Well, at least the tree-ring data made it into the IPCC report, albeit disguised and misrepresented.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
That's exactly what the man-made global warming folks are doing. Despite all the fabricated evidence that has been exposed, they continue to promote this false theology.:crazy1:
Look, I'm as anti-global warming as anyone. Seems like it's the geologists (who give more credence to Earth Cycles) against the rest of the scientific world (who give more credence to Greenhouse Effect).

On that note, I've done a ton of research on this stuff, have a brother that works directly with the environment, and have to say that global warming definitely isn't a completely false theology. Scientists have filled tubes full of ozone, injected them with CO2, and proven that the CO2 "kills" the ozone. Then they used math and took the average emissions daily by American cars and American plants and came up with numbers.

The Greenhouse Effect isn't false. It's proven as fact far beyond the Big Bang or evolution.

Now that I've said that, let me say this: I'm still not sure of the EXACT effects of global warming. Nobody truly is. I'm also against much of the legislation that would handicap our economy and limits American oil companies on where they can drill. Whether or not anyone believes in global warming, they should realize that American oil companies are far and away the cleanest and most secure energy companies in the world, have the most advanced R&D departments moving forward with alternative energy sources, and that they're a MUCH better option than the Brazilian, Middle Eastern, or Chinese drilling companies that are coming to our coastlines.

Just look at the Chevron/PetroEcuador mess down in Ecuador for further proof. Basically, PetroEcuador (which is GOVERNMENT owned) took over some old Texaco sites and ruined the land. No proper cleanups, oil all over the place, etc, etc. One Chevron purchase of Texaco, one corrupt judge, and one fanatical environmental lobby later, we have Ecuador suing Chevron.

Anyways, it's not a question of whether or not global warming is false. It's not, and we help the process along. The question is how much we have to do with it considering that we're on the warming trend of a naturally-occurring Earth Cycle.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Democrats have NEVER said they were going to take away guns from anybody. That's just stupid to think. Abortion is a right that is allotted in the Constitution and it's not going to change, and there is no Republican who is going to change it. They will say, "I'm against abortion" but never do a damn thing about it because they can't. Further, Democrats don't take from your wallet nearly as much as Republicans do. Maybe you've been too stupid to notice the structure of supply-side economics and it's implementation by Republicans. And in the same time when these alleged "tax cuts" are being handed down to common American citizens, fees and state and local taxes are increasing at just as fast of a rate. The government does have a bottom line and it will take the same from you regardless of what Fox News will tell you. You want to talk about your personal business? We lost more individual rights and liberties under Bush than we have at any single point within the past century. What has been taken away by Democrats? You have been sorely misled and I pity your ignorance, really, I do. Do you actually read the crap you post or do you just throw it out and see what sticks? It might also help to actually read the post you are replying to and aim your reply in a manner to respond to the actual quoted material. Lastly you might want to curtail the insults lest someone point you out to be childish and immature.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by waterboy
I still don't see the proof that global warming is caused by man. There are natural cycles to temperature changes that have been going on for eons. Why is it that all of a sudden it's caused by man?

Because man can now make money off of it, and know there are plenty of gullible fools out there that will buy it. As someone said before, just follow the money.

[Bullaholic]

I'm reading a lot instead of posting on several of these threads---some good points and some silly ones as usual. However, please keep in mind that both the good and the bad discussion posts will all go away if you trade insults. Debate please---no personal attacks and the show has a chance of going on.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Look, I'm as anti-global warming as anyone. Seems like it's the geologists (who give more credence to Earth Cycles) against the rest of the scientific world (who give more credence to Greenhouse Effect).

On that note, I've done a ton of research on this stuff, have a brother that works directly with the environment, and have to say that global warming definitely isn't a completely false theology. Scientists have filled tubes full of ozone, injected them with CO2, and proven that the CO2 "kills" the ozone. Then they used math and took the average emissions daily by American cars and American plants and came up with numbers.

The Greenhouse Effect isn't false. It's proven as fact far beyond the Big Bang or evolution.

Now that I've said that, let me say this: I'm still not sure of the EXACT effects of global warming. Nobody truly is. I'm also against much of the legislation that would handicap our economy and limits American oil companies on where they can drill. Whether or not anyone believes in global warming, they should realize that American oil companies are far and away the cleanest and most secure energy companies in the world, have the most advanced R&D departments moving forward with alternative energy sources, and that they're a MUCH better option than the Brazilian, Middle Eastern, or Chinese drilling companies that are coming to our coastlines.

Just look at the Chevron/PetroEcuador mess down in Ecuador for further proof. Basically, PetroEcuador (which is GOVERNMENT owned) took over some old Texaco sites and ruined the land. No proper cleanups, oil all over the place, etc, etc. One Chevron purchase of Texaco, one corrupt judge, and one fanatical environmental lobby later, we have Ecuador suing Chevron.

Anyways, it's not a question of whether or not global warming is false. It's not, and we help the process along. The question is how much we have to do with it considering that we're on the warming trend of a naturally-occurring Earth Cycle. Great post BDR. I can agree with that totally. I am not one to say there is no basis for us adding to naturally occuring climate change. How much and what NEEDS to be done are my big concerns. I know alot of what I have read about the various accords and such is way to extreme and would further damage our economy.

[BEAST]

Now I am actually scared. Ever since LE Dad came to the board, Im pretty sure I have disagreed with almost every side he took. With that said, I agree totally with him on this topic.




BEAST

[BleedOrange]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Democrats have NEVER said they were going to take away guns from anybody. That's just stupid to think. Abortion is a right that is allotted in the Constitution and it's not going to change, and there is no Republican who is going to change it. They will say, "I'm against abortion" but never do a damn thing about it because they can't. Further, Democrats don't take from your wallet nearly as much as Republicans do. Maybe you've been too stupid to notice the structure of supply-side economics and it's implementation by Republicans. And in the same time when these alleged "tax cuts" are being handed down to common American citizens, fees and state and local taxes are increasing at just as fast of a rate. The government does have a bottom line and it will take the same from you regardless of what Fox News will tell you. You want to talk about your personal business? We lost more individual rights and liberties under Bush than we have at any single point within the past century. What has been taken away by Democrats? You have been sorely misled and I pity your ignorance, really, I do.

Just curious where is "Abortion a right...." in the constitution? Whether you support it, or not, thats an interesting read of the constitution.

[BILLYFRED0000]

RussiaGate – Even when global warming alarmists base claims on scientific measurements, they've often had their finger on the scale. Russian think tank investigators evaluated thousands of documents and e-mails leaked from the East Anglia research center and concluded readings from the coldest regions of their nation had been omitted, driving average temperatures up about half a degree.

Russia-Gate II – Speaking of Russia, a presentation last October to the Geological Society of America showed how tree-ring data from Russia indicated cooling after 1961, but was deceptively truncated and only artfully discussed in IPCC publications. Well, at least the tree-ring data made it into the IPCC report, albeit disguised and misrepresented.

AlaskaGate – Geologists for Space Studies in Geophysics and Oceanography and their U.S. and Canadian colleagues say previous studies largely overestimated by 40 percent Alaskan glacier loss for 40 years. This flawed data are fed into those computers to predict future warming.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Because man can now make money off of it, and know there are plenty of gullible fools out there that will buy it. As someone said before, just follow the money. BINGO!!
and until goverment becomes by the people and for the people, we the people will continue to pay that money. Politics is so overrun with special interest money itt is not funny and I pity the person that thinks its one side or the other. Lobbiest cover their bets by putting money on both sides. They may spend a little more on the favorite of a race, but they will throw a bone to the underdog just in case.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Anyways, it's not a question of whether or not global warming is false. It's not, and we help the process along. The question is how much we have to do with it considering that we're on the warming trend of a naturally-occurring Earth Cycle. The debate is not about whether global warming AND global cooling exist. Clearly they do. It has happened for millions of years and will continue to happen for millions of years.

The theology that I am refuting is that man is the sole cause of this warming trend. That is the cry of the far left. Why enact new legislation, regulations and taxes on something that we "think" might contribute to a problem? Their science is clearly flawed at best, and fraudulent at worst.

[turbostud]

Break out the ice fishing poles boys, Erie got some of the best walleye fishing in the country!

Link (http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&article=2)

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by turbostud
Break out the ice fishing poles boys, Erie got some of the best walleye fishing in the country!

Link (http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&article=2) Hence the shift from "Global warming". I am sure there is some counter issue to this but... Is drastic regulation and modification necessary?

[DDBooger]

LOL so much cut and past, cut and paste intellectualism in here.

BDR gives the best run down of a rationalized discourse. LE asks the BEST question.


Is drastic regulation and modification necessary?

Without individuals owning the laws that govern them, it is very hard to get compliance. We'll never see an agreement arise from developed nations (U.S., Japan, Australia, EU) in competition with developing (India, China, Indonesia etc). While a majority of the C02 emissions have been placed up there by us, developing nations will surpass this (China) if not already. This planet cannot sustain ecologically that impact. That's not considering GCC. Kuznet came up with a curve in the early 50s to map out development and applied today we can see the outcomes should China and India follow. The ramifications are rather sobering. Not to mention by the end of the century those two will be competing for water resources (Blue Gold).

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by BEAST
Now I am actually scared. Ever since LE Dad came to the board, Im pretty sure I have disagreed with almost every side he took. With that said, I agree totally with him on this topic.




BEAST That's football. This whole different ball game. :D

[waterboy]

Originally posted by STANG RED
Because man can now make money off of it, and know there are plenty of gullible fools out there that will buy it. As someone said before, just follow the money.
I knew that.;) It just amazes me that some people are oblivious to how that works. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. I also agree with BDR. We do need to have some regulations to prevent us from harming the environment, because without those regulations our planet would definitely be in trouble. Finding alternatives to pollution causing fossil fuels is tantamount, but to do that at the rate and costs some are proposing is preposterous. That would do more harm than good. A slow progression is the right course so that the economy can adjust to those changes.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by waterboy
I knew that.;) It just amazes me that some people are oblivious to how that works. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. I also agree with BDR. We do need to have some regulations to prevent us from harming the environment, because without those regulations our planet would definitely be in trouble. Finding alternatives to pollution causing fossil fuels is tantamount, but to do that at the rate and costs some are proposing is preposterous. That would do more harm than good. A slow progression is the right course so that the economy can adjust to those changes. I like where you're going, at least it isn't some global governmental conspiracy theory. Alternatives will no longer be found in bureaucratic institutions that pander to lobbying interests. Every solution will require a beneficiary for legislation to be considered feasible. I call it green washing. Many of the large solutions are simply a reallocation of centralized control. While right now it resides in the oil industry, we are simply trying to switch masters. I'm presenting a paper in Atlanta on agental driven solutions to macro level problems in the area of development, consumership and most importantly production.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by DDBooger
LOL so much cut and past, cut and paste intellectualism in here.

BDR gives the best run down of a rationalized discourse. LE asks the BEST question.



Without individuals owning the laws that govern them, it is very hard to get compliance. We'll never see an agreement arise from developed nations (U.S., Japan, Australia, EU) in competition with developing (India, China, Indonesia etc). While a majority of the C02 emissions have been placed up there by us, developing nations will surpass this (China) if not already. This planet cannot sustain ecologically that impact. That's not considering GCC. Kuznet came up with a curve in the early 50s to map out development and applied today we can see the outcomes should China and India follow. The ramifications are rather sobering. Not to mention by the end of the century those two will be competing for water resources (Blue Gold). Very good point. With so many manufacturing plants moving to the developing nations, not only are they producing more CO2, but the people are now working and buying CO2 producing autos. The days of the Chinaman on a bicycle are fast disappearing. These countries are not going to agree to anything that will curtail this uptrend. Thus if the US regulates it could cause more industry to relocate.

I don't even want to get into water. There is already a big fight in this area as Ft Wth is trying to build a huge lake that will flood huge amounts of Hardwood timberlands and one small town. 3 years of that drama is enough. Water is about to become a hot issue in our lifetime.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I like where you're going, at least it isn't some global governmental conspiracy theory. Alternatives will no longer be found in bureaucratic institutions that pander to lobbying interests. Every solution will require a beneficiary for legislation to be considered feasible. I call it green washing. Many of the large solutions are simply a reallocation of centralized control. While right now it resides in the oil industry, we are simply trying to switch masters. I'm presenting a paper in Atlanta on agental driven solutions to macro level problems in the area of development, consumership and most importantly production. You are correct our goverment is no longer ours. It is corrupted by special interest from every direction. Everything from automotive to Zebra breeders have someone in Washington handing out money and swinging favors to the people who are "supposed" to be representing our interests.

[Bullaholic]

Only way the American political system has a chance to change is by the passage of a term limits Bill and possibly some "no confidence" referendums.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by DDBooger
I like where you're going, at least it isn't some global governmental conspiracy theory. Alternatives will no longer be found in bureaucratic institutions that pander to lobbying interests. Every solution will require a beneficiary for legislation to be considered feasible. I call it green washing. Many of the large solutions are simply a reallocation of centralized control. While right now it resides in the oil industry, we are simply trying to switch masters. I'm presenting a paper in Atlanta on agental driven solutions to macro level problems in the area of development, consumership and most importantly production.

I still have an issue with the central premise of your arguement.
That global warming as a threat exists and will continue without intervention. Based on factual data over time the temperature on this planet has been warmer than it is now and has cooled off to an Ice Age on an alternating frequency of x years. (X is used for brevity). There have been no proofs of this continuing since the latest data indicate that we are now in another cooling trend and cannot predict future causes based on current science. Therefore are any regulations vis a via global warming necessary, beneficial, or even possible. With even the amount of cuts required by the IPCC we could only affect the temperature by .1 or .2 degrees centigrade which is not going to change anything. That would preclude any beneficial green washing from being of any assistance in the goal of cooling the planet. We cannot predict the future and any legislation using prediction amounts to fools gold where we could be costing ourselves much more than helping.

[JasperDog94]

Here's an interesting thought: What if we had implemented some of these drastic policies during the late 90s? Now that the temperatures have actually gone down we might actually think that we had something to do with it instead of the natural ebb and flow that we see occurring.:thinking:

[big daddy russ]

On the subject of clean fuel, watch this... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEU8iskjWd4)

[big daddy russ]

...and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related)

[JasperDog94]

Great links Russ. Very informative!!!:)

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Great links Russ. Very informative!!!:)
The guy who pioneered that second link was a genius in his field.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Great links Russ. Very informative!!!:)

Yea YouTube videos! very scientific

[BILLYFRED0000]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
The guy who pioneered that second link was a genius in his field.

Yeah but we never found his field......

[Daddy D 11]

I just hope I never have a different opinion than BBDE. Because if I do, I am instantly ignorant. But at least he will pity me?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Keith7
Yea YouTube videos! very scientific
Just saying the ability to harness that energy is there. On top of it all, if we can develop that energy source and keep it going, we wouldn't have $4/gallon fuel. There's enough salt water to keep us going for a long time.

[Daddy D 11]

Hey, let's look at the bright side shall we? The American people have realized they made a mistake in electing Barack Obama. Thus, now we are seeing a shift back towards conservative ways in Gubernatorial and Senatorial races.

We should not be bickering over global warming right now for it is not an immediate predicament. The Healthcare Bill is. Another concern is the Obama administrations re-implementation of the Death Tax.

[BILLYFRED0000]

Further admissions from Phil Jones from East Anglia Center

He says that the warming trend in the late 20th century is not unique.

Yes, he goes on to say, yes, it happened two other times in the past 150 years alone. Almost had you. Between 1860 and 1880 and then again 1910 to 1940, started to heat up and went down again.

That seemed to work itself out. By the way, those were both far before anybody had an SUV or there was a significant impact from man-made emissions.

Next, this guy admitted uncertainty in temperature readings only 130 years ago — 130 years ago — not really sure what happened. I mean, why don't we check and find out what happened 1,000 years ago? We have can't even find out what happened 130 years ago, let along 1,000.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Hey, let's look at the bright side shall we? The American people have realized they made a mistake in electing Barack Obama. Thus, now we are seeing a shift back towards conservative ways in Gubernatorial and Senatorial races.

We should not be bickering over global warming right now for it is not an immediate predicament. The Healthcare Bill is. Another concern is the Obama administrations re-implementation of the Death Tax.

http://welcometoillinois.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/20080731_simple-jack.jpg