Pitbulls, just plain nasty..... [Archive]

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 12:39 PM

I have the sweetest Red Nose Pit you will ever see, but if she were threatened or handled improperly I have no doubt she would be deadly. The jaw strength and jumping ability she has is incredible. She can easily clear 5' and has no inhibitions about leaping onto you, almost like Dino from the Flintstones. I have no problem with these dogs. I had her older brother at one time and he too had a gentle disposition, but again just incredible jaw strength and power.
I think maybe the owners should be registered more than the dogs. The animals must be properly cared for and properly secured and that is more of an owner problem than a breed problem.

PPSTATEBOUND

02-10-2010, 12:41 PM

Knew somebody who went with the "Great dog owners cause their trouble" clause....They were not fighting pits as I petted them many times and knew the fellow quite well...I was always skeptical about them even being around his dogs often. Never saw them act any way other then peaceful....Until the one day when they both arrived home...found both female pits locked up in a death struggle between the two, must have been going on for hours as the whole garage was sprayed with blood...One dog had to be put down and the other took 200 plus stitches and a nice vet bill home after the fact.....I have had two female dogs together for long period of times that were not pit bulls, and in my 39 years on the planet never have witnessed anything like the look ofthe two dogs and that garage the day I saw it....Pit bulls are just Bad IMO....and it will take something like this to prove it to some people that think they are a perfect dog if the owner treats them right..I will not allow a dog of that breed around my dogs or family. It seems like the smart thing to do.

STANG RED

02-10-2010, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
I have the sweetest Red Nose Pit you will ever see, but if she were threatened or handled improperly I have no doubt she would be deadly. The jaw strength and jumping ability she has is incredible. She can easily clear 5' and has no inhibitions about leaping onto you, almost like Dino from the Flintstones. I have no problem with these dogs. I had her older brother at one time and he too had a gentle disposition, but again just incredible jaw strength and power.
I think maybe the owners should be registered more than the dogs. The animals must be properly cared for and properly secured and that is more of an owner problem than a breed problem.

So your saying, pit bulls dont kill people, bad pitbull owners kill people? :thinking: hmmmm intersting thought. You just might be right.
I love pits myself, but I have never been attacked by one either. But I do know there are some very mean ones out there, and feel they should be put down. How they got that way, may or may not be a case for animal cruelty. But I've always suspected its the dog owners fault.

waterboy

02-10-2010, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by PPSTATEBOUND
....I will not allow a dog of that breed around my dogs or family. It seems like the smart thing to do.
I concur. My cousin had a pit bull one time. The dog went off on a friend's dog in my yard. After trying to get his dog off the other dog without success, I walked into the house, got my .380, and gave my cousin the choice. He said, "Go ahead." I proceeded to shoot the dog once......NO EFFECT......twice, NO EFFECT.....I shot the dog seven times before he died!:eek: He did finally relax his jaws after the fourth shot, though....:eek:

Phantom Stang

02-10-2010, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by pancho villa
Kill them all!
Don't hold back Pancho. Tell us how you really feel.:D

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 01:19 PM

2 great examples.
1. 2 dogs enclosed in a garage. Probably one food dish, one water bowl, or neither. Owner is asking for trouble.

2. Pit roaming free with owner around in an unfamilar territory. Another dog it does not know can be seen as a threat.

Handle with care!!!

Also know your dogs bloodlines. You are not dealing with a poodle. These dogs are protectors and very territorial.

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 01:23 PM

Anyone in the coastal bend looking for a good dog? I've been trying to find a home for a sweet pit bull mix for a few weeks.
Let me know if you are interested. I can post or pm pictures.:)

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
So your saying, pit bulls dont kill people, bad pitbull owners kill people? :thinking: hmmmm intersting thought. You just might be right.
I love pits myself, but I have never been attacked by one either. But I do know there are some very mean ones out there, and feel they should be put down. How they got that way, may or may not be a case for animal cruelty. But I've always suspected its the dog owners fault. I totally agree. I would not have a problem with a registry where you subjected your dog for observation. There are some "bad" bloodlines and mixes that need to be cleansed. Pits should not be mixed, too dangerous putting that much strength into another breed.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 01:32 PM

My puppy....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rustysmith/Photo0029-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rustysmith/IMG_1308.jpg

His name's Deacon and we've never had a problem with him. I guess it's all in the individual experience. Like LE Dad said, bloodlines and imbreeding are rampant with pits. We made a thorough check of his background before we adopted him. We met Deacon's mom and dad, met their owners, the whole nine yards.

Pits are a very energetic dog and love being loved on. You've gotta walk them, gotta give them attention, and you've gotta be the boss of the house. We take Deacon on a 1.4 mile walk at least six times a week and try to take him to the dog park, down to Bear Creek Park, or somewhere public the one day that we don't walk him, just to keep him well-socialized.

I actually didn't like pits at first. I've always been a lab owner and still love that breed (our other dog is a yellow lab). I didn't warm up to the breed until a few of my friends adopted some. Out of five or six friends who owned pits, only one ever had problems with one, and as I came to find out it was his own fault. That dog was chained up in the back yard six days a week, wasn't socialized at all, didn't get any attention. Basically, the same thing that happened to his lab after he traded his pit for his lab. And the lab wound up giving him the same problems.

Watch the bloodlines, keep them socialized, exercised, and give them proper attention, love, and boundaries and I don't think you'll have a problem with them. But then again, that's just my personal experience.

PPSTATEBOUND

02-10-2010, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
2 great examples.
1. 2 dogs enclosed in a garage. Probably one food dish, one water bowl, or neither. Owner is asking for trouble.

2. Pit roaming free with owner around in an unfamilar territory. Another dog it does not know can be seen as a threat.

Handle with care!!!

Also know your dogs bloodlines. You are not dealing with a poodle. These dogs are protectors and very territorial.

The two dogs mentioned in my story had a free roam situation with a open door to the garage so to relieve themselves from the heat if needed...I guess they decided to duke it out on soild ground... :eek:

rockdale80

02-10-2010, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Black_Magic
I believe the pitbull question is simple. They account for more deaths than any other two kinds of dogs. They are Unpredictable and deadly not only to people but other pets. I think you should have to have insurance if you own one. Kinda like having insurance on a car. I think the insurance should be expensive. Should someone be able to own a Tiger or Lion or Lepard and take them out with them on a leash? No because they are potentialy deadly. So are pitbulls.

I would think someone as liberal as you are would be a bigger advocate of personal freedoms, but I guess that is only when they pertain to you. I never pegged you for a hypocrite, but I am not really surprised based on your ramblings.

We should make cribs carry insurance. They are dangerous too...and hurt people.

I think it is funny to point out that more parents abuse and kill their own children than pitbulls injury or kill in a year.

The reality is that most things we do is dangerous, so why do we make such a big deal out of a dog breed? You are more likely to die in a car wreck, more likely to catch terminal cancer, to be killed in a hurricane or tornado, or so many other things, yet people insist on being scared of a dog breed. Anyone need a hug? ;)

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
My puppy....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rustysmith/Photo0029-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y153/rustysmith/IMG_1308.jpg

His name's Deacon and we've never had a problem with him. I guess it's all in the individual experience. Like LE Dad said, bloodlines and imbreeding are rampant with pits. We made a thorough check of his background before we adopted him. We met Deacon's mom and dad, met their owners, the whole nine yards.

Pits are a very energetic dog and love being loved on. You've gotta walk them, gotta give them attention, and you've gotta be the boss of the house. We take Deacon on a 1.4 mile walk at least six times a week and try to take him to the dog park, down to Bear Creek Park, or somewhere public the one day that we don't walk him, just to keep him well-socialized.

I actually didn't like pits at first. I've always been a lab owner and still love that breed (our other dog is a yellow lab). I didn't warm up to the breed until a few of my friends adopted some. Out of five or six friends who owned pits, only one ever had problems with one, and as I came to find out it was his own fault. That dog was chained up in the back yard six days a week, wasn't socialized at all, didn't get any attention. Basically, the same thing that happened to his lab after he traded his pit for his lab. And the lab wound up giving him the same problems.

Watch the bloodlines, keep them socialized, exercised, and give them proper attention, love, and boundaries and I don't think you'll have a problem with them. But then again, that's just my personal experience. :thumbsup: Smart man!! If everyone would do what you are doing the "pit bull problem" would not be. There would still be attacks but they would be proportionate with other breeds. You can't just pick one up from the corner store and throw him in a fence.

Pits are beautiful, wonderful dogs but you must be a responsible owner. Just like your spouse they need lots of attention.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
:thumbsup: Smart man!! If everyone would do what you are doing the "pit bull problem" would not be. There would still be attacks but they would be proportionate with other breeds. You can't just pick one up from the corner store and throw him in a fence.

Pits are beautiful, wonderful dogs but you must be a responsible owner. Just like your spouse they need lots of attention.
I agree. I also got a bit lucky. My friends who owned them knew how to properly care for and discipline dogs. Between them, plenty of behavioral books, and plenty of Cesar Millan (who's a big pit bull advocate himself), we've had a good support system and knowledge base on how to properly handle all dogs--especially pits.

I'll be the first to admit that we're not the perfect owners. We let him get away with a little too much and let some bad habits slide, but in two-and-a-half years he's never even shown hints of aggressive behavior towards anything except squirrels.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 02:15 PM

I agree with BlackMagic, the proof is in the pudding. They attack more animals/humans than any other dog.
I know personally, growing up in the country and hunting on big ranches in south Texas that those things "disappeared" quick if they ran out in front of me.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I agree with BlackMagic, the proof is in the pudding. They attack more animals/humans than any other dog.
I know personally, growing up in the country and hunting on big ranches in south Texas that those things "disappeared" quick if they ran out in front of me.
Over the past three decades, roughly 14 attacks per year reported. Total population between 5.5 and 6 million throughout that time.

There's the pudding.

http://blogs.qc.cuny.edu/blogs/0209N0277/001/og-77.jpg

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 02:25 PM

#1 that's only reported attacks. And #2 is attacks only considering deaths? Because personally, not being around a ton of them I can count 5 attacks right now. There's no way I witnessed 2 of the 14 attacks in the entire country last year.

You're naive to think that every attack gets reported. Most attacks don't get reported because the dog gets a bullet in the head shortly after it attacks someone. No one is going to report that...

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by rockdale80
I would think someone as liberal as you are would be a bigger advocate of personal freedoms, but I guess that is only when they pertain to you. I never pegged you for a hypocrite, but I am not really surprised based on your ramblings.

We should make cribs carry insurance. They are dangerous too...and hurt people.

I think it is funny to point out that more parents abuse and kill their own children than pitbulls injury or kill in a year.

The reality is that most things we do is dangerous, so why do we make such a big deal out of a dog breed? You are more likely to die in a car wreck, more likely to catch terminal cancer, to be killed in a hurricane or tornado, or so many other things, yet people insist on being scared of a dog breed. Anyone need a hug? ;)

Well perhaps we should do RECALLS when a crib is found to be dangerous! Or we should make it illegal for a parent to KILL their kids! And since we are more likely to DIE in a car wreck then we should put seatbelts in them and post a speed limit, build in airbags and force car companies to make better cars and so on and so on and so on!!!!
WAIT!!!!!! WE DO ALL THAT!!!!!!
So why is it hypocrisy to want to protect ourselves from Pit Bulls???

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
#1 that's only reported attacks. And #2 is attacks only considering deaths? Because personally, not being around a ton of them I can count 5 attacks right now. There's no way I witnessed 2 of the 14 attacks in the entire country last year.

You're naive to think that every attack gets reported. Most attacks don't get reported because the dog gets a bullet in the head shortly after it attacks someone. No is going to report that...
No, it doesn't include only fatalities. They report any attack and include any sort of casualty, whether it results in death (typically in children) or just a arm scratch.

And you're absolutely right about many attacks not being reported. But that number (the number of non-reports) is far fewer for bully breeds such as pits, rottweilers, dobermans, etc than for smaller or even weaker dogs. I've known of several lab attacks throughout my lifetime, one of which was done by my parents' old lab, but none were reported because the damage was minimal.

But then again, that's the danger with ownership of bully breeds, especially pits. I'd say that to own one you must train yourself to be a good dog owner instead of just someone has a dog. The biggest problem in my personal experience is that these breeds have the ability to inflict serious damage so an attack of any sort is a non-option. They MUST be exercised, given attention, and properly socialized. Because if you don't, your dog won't be balanced and has a greater chance of snapping.

The natural temperament of pit bulls is actually to be dog- and animal-agressive, but people-friendly. Back in the pit-fighting days, people were actually down in the pits during the fights and the dogs never attacked humans. Even during their most aggressive moments.

Which is why I take mine to the park on a regular basis. I've socialized the dog-aggressive behavior (which is part of his nature, but also partly out of fear of 'outsider') out of him. He's very playful and a fairly calm pit, and gets along great with everything from chihuahuas to children.

And actually, the pit isn't responsible for the majority of dog attacks in America. The Dachsund is. The pit is, however, responsible for the majority of dog-related casualties in America. Which is the more concerning statistic.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
No, it doesn't include fatalities. They report any attack and include any sort of casualty.

And you're absolutely right about many attacks not being reported. But that number (the number of non-reports) is far fewer for bully breeds such as pits, rottweilers, dobermans, etc than for smaller or even weaker dogs. I've known of several lab attacks throughout my lifetime, one of which was done by my parents' old lab, but none were reported because the damage was minimal.

But then again, that's the danger with ownership of bully breeds, especially pits. I'd say that to own one you must train yourself to be a good dog owner instead of just someone has a dog. The biggest problem in my personal experience is that these breeds have the ability to inflict serious damage so an attack of any sort is a non-option. They MUST be exercised, given attention, and properly socialized. Because if you don't, your dog won't be balanced and has a greater chance of snapping.

The natural temperament of pit bulls is actually to be dog- and animal-agressive, but people-friendly. Back in the pit-fighting days, people were actually down in the pits during the fights and the dogs never attacked humans. Even during their most aggressive moments.

Which is why I take mine to the park on a regular basis. I've socialized the dog-aggressive behavior (which is part of his nature, but also partly out of fear of 'outsider') out of him. He's very playful and a fairly calm pit, and gets along great with everything from chihuahuas to children.

And actually, the pit isn't responsible for the majority of dog attacks in America. The Dachsund is. The pit is, however, responsible for the majority of dog-related casualties in America. Which is the more concerning statistic.

Good deal. I'd much rather you own a pitbull than others lol because you're actually doing what it takes to keep em from ripping someones face off.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Good deal. I'd much rather you own a pitbull than others lol because you're actually doing what it takes to keep em from ripping someones face off. An idiot with a Pit is as bad as an idiot with a gun. If you want to ban Pits you best ban your guns next.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
An idiot with a Pit is as bad as an idiot with a gun. If you want to ban Pits you best ban your guns next.

Some pits you can't control from mauling someone, you can control if the trigger is pulled or not.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
An idiot with a Pit is as bad as an idiot with a gun. If you want to ban Pits you best ban your guns next.
It's a good day. It's 2:00 and I haven't been called an idiot yet.

I'm sure that'll change when I get out in Houston traffic in a couple of hours. Someone will inevitably speed up so that they can cut me off in the process of crossing three lanes of traffic so that they don't miss their exit. Then they'll look up in the mirror, shake their fist, and mouth several other words along with "idiot" that aren't board-appropriate.

Oh, the joys of living in Houston.

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
No, it doesn't include fatalities. They report any attack and include any sort of casualty.

And you're absolutely right about many attacks not being reported. But that number (the number of non-reports) is far fewer for bully breeds such as pits, rottweilers, dobermans, etc than for smaller or even weaker dogs. I've known of several lab attacks throughout my lifetime, one of which was done by my parents' old lab, but none were reported because the damage was minimal.

But then again, that's the danger with ownership of bully breeds, especially pits. I'd say that to own one you must train yourself to be a good dog owner instead of just someone has a dog. The biggest problem in my personal experience is that these breeds have the ability to inflict serious damage so an attack of any sort is a non-option. They MUST be exercised, given attention, and properly socialized. Because if you don't, your dog won't be balanced and has a greater chance of snapping.

The natural temperament of pit bulls is actually to be dog- and animal-agressive, but people-friendly. Back in the pit-fighting days, people were actually down in the pits during the fights and the dogs never attacked humans. Even during their most aggressive moments.

Which is why I take mine to the park on a regular basis. I've socialized the dog-aggressive behavior (which is part of his nature, but also partly out of fear of 'outsider') out of him. He's very playful and a fairly calm pit, and gets along great with everything from chihuahuas to children.

And actually, the pit isn't responsible for the majority of dog attacks in America. The Dachsund is. The pit is, however, responsible for the majority of dog-related casualties in America. Which is the more concerning statistic.

Just curious Russ!
With the knowledge that you just put forth, why would you chose to have a Pit Bull? Why would anyone?
Companionship? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.
Great with kids? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.
Protection? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
An idiot with a Pit is as bad as an idiot with a gun. If you want to ban Pits you best ban your guns next.

As soon as "Guns" learn how to act on their own I will also agree with this!!!

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
As soon as "Guns" learn how to act on their own I will also agree with this!!!

this made me laugh lol

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
An idiot with a Pit is as bad as an idiot with a gun. If you want to ban Pits you best ban your guns next.

Sorry! I just thought of this.

Wouldn't Pit Bulls be the Automatic Weapons of the dog world??? And if I'm not mistaken we did outlaw automatic weapons.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Just curious Russ!
With the knowledge that you just put forth, why would you chose to have a Pit Bull? Why would anyone?
Companionship? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.
Great with kids? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.
Protection? 1000 other breeds do the same thing.
Because they're genuinely not as bad as they're made out to be. My pit is a MUCH better dog than my lab, and they're both given the exact same amount of love, exercise, socialization, and attention.

Pits are very smart dogs and when they're properly balanced are the easiest dogs in the world to train. Ours can actually lock and unlock the deadbolt.

I would actually feel safer leaving my pit with my two-year-old godson, Kayson, (who comes over all the time) than my lab. Though I wouldn't let either be around Kayson unsupervised, the pit seems to have a better grasp of his limits around younger kids than the lab does. Our lab is docile, but the pit gives Kayson appropriate space and isn't jumpy at all around him. Deacon (our pit) can take all the pain that Kayson can dish out and roll with it.

That's one of the benefits of their tolerance for pain. It's also one of the reasons people rave about how well-behaved pits are around children and something few parents consider when adopting a dog into a home with youngsters.

I guess to answer your question in short form, I see the situation differently than you. For me, it was never a question of "what other breed could I get instead of a pit?" I learned a long time ago pits are perfectly fine, playful, non-aggressive dogs when properly cared for. So I got one. I used to share your opinion, though, and would've probably asked the same line of questions back then.

It's simply a different set of life experiences that led us to where we are in opinions. My experiences with pits have been nothing but positive.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
As soon as "Guns" learn how to act on their own I will also agree with this!!! Dogs don't act on their own. Leave a gun unattended in the middle of the street chances are something bad will happen.:)

At the very least you will lose something you value or worse someone could get hurt.:thinking:

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Sorry! I just thought of this.

Wouldn't Pit Bulls be the Automatic Weapons of the dog world??? And if I'm not mistaken we did outlaw automatic weapons. Pits are very friendly. Not hardly an automatic weapon. More like a 22. You must handle properly.

People kill more people than Dogs. Do we just eliminate ALL people.

:rolleyes:

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
It's a good day. It's 2:00 and I haven't been called an idiot yet.

I'm sure that'll change when I get out in Houston traffic in a couple of hours. Someone will inevitably speed up so that they can cut me off in the process of crossing three lanes of traffic so that they don't miss their exit. Then they'll look up in the mirror, shake their fist, and mouth several other words along with "idiot" that aren't board-appropriate.

Oh, the joys of living in Houston.

:thinking: Just make sure all of their fingers are down.lol
That is why I would never make it in the "big city"

:)

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Because they're genuinely not as bad as they're made out to be. My pit is a MUCH better dog than my lab, and they're both given the exact same amount of love, exercise, socialization, and attention.

Pits are very smart dogs and when they're properly balanced are the easiest dogs in the world to train. Ours can actually lock and unlock the deadbolt.

I would actually feel safer leaving my pit with my two-year-old godson, Kayson, (who comes over all the time) than my lab. Though I wouldn't let either be around Kayson unsupervised, the pit seems to have a better grasp of his limits around younger kids than the lab does. Our lab is docile, but the pit gives Kayson appropriate space and isn't jumpy at all around him. Deacon (our pit) can take all the pain that Kayson can dish out and roll with it.

That's one of the benefits of their tolerance for pain. It's also one of the reasons people rave about how well-behaved pits are around children and something few parents consider when adopting a dog into a home with youngsters.

I guess to answer your question in short form, I see the situation differently than you. For me, it was never a question of "what other breed could I get instead of a pit?" I learned a long time ago pits are perfectly fine, playful, non-aggressive dogs when properly cared for. So I got one. I used to share your opinion, though, and would've probably asked the same line of questions back then.

It's simply a different set of life experiences that led us to where we are in opinions. My experiences with pits have been nothing but positive.

That's a great explaination Russ! But still the facts remain that Pit Bulls do have the ability and aptititude to be very aggressive and destructive. All dogs, to a certain extent, have this ability but the Pit Bull brings much more dangerous tools to the fight, so to speak! Your experiences with Pit Bulls have been great so far as have so many other people's experiences with Pit Bulls right before the interview on the nightly news about why their child was mauled by a Pit. Almost everyone tells the same story after the fact. "They had no idea!" or "The dog was the best dog ever"!
I guess to me it makes very little sense to take the risk if it isn't necessary. Like I said before, there are 1000 other breeds that offer the same benefits of a Pit without the risk. (regardless of how minimal you think the risk is).

STANG RED

02-10-2010, 03:43 PM

I dont usually believe in coincidences, but the most amzing one just happened to me.
Just a few minutes ago, my dogs were barking their heads off at my back fence. When I went to look, there were 4 dogs in the alley, at the fence barking at my dogs. So stepped out and hollered at them. The 4 in the alley started backing off just a bit, except for one little white ankle biter. One of the others was a big brindle pit bull. When I stepped out, he came back and grabbed the little white yelper by the throat, shook him like a rag doll, and killed him instantley, then just turned and ran off. So now theirs a dead dog by my gate.
After thinking about it for a minute, I decided to get my gun and go check the alley out. As I rounded a dumpster about half way down the alley, he rounded the next dumpster down. He started coming straight at me, with his head ducked low and growling. When he got about 20 yards from me, with no look of backing down, I put a round right between his eyes. Now I have two dead dogs in my alley. I dont know who's dog it was, but they should have kept him locked up.

rockdale80

02-10-2010, 03:49 PM

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
I dont usually believe in coincidences, but the most amzing one just happened to me.
Just a few minutes ago, my dogs were barking their heads off at my back fence. When I went to look, there were 4 dogs in the alley, at the fence barking at my dogs. So stepped out and hollered at them. The 4 in the alley started backing off just a bit, except for one little white ankle biter. One of the others was a big brindle pit bull. When I stepped out, he came back and grabbed the little white yelper by the throat, shook him like a rag doll, and killed him instantley, then just turned and ran off. So now theirs a dead dog by my gate.
After thinking about it for a minute, I decided to get my gun and go check the alley out. As I rounded a dumpster about half way down the alley, he rounded the next dumpster down. He started coming straight at me, with his head ducked low and growling. When he got about 20 yards from me, with no look of backing down, I put a round right between his eyes. Now I have two dead dogs in my alley. I dont know who's dog it was, but they should have kept him locked up. They should have taken care of him. Pits need social interaction; walking, petting, brushing and quality time. Just as if you lock your kid up in a cage or let him roam free something bad is probably going to happen. You probably helped the breed. The people who keep allowing the breed to roam and breed uncontrolled anger me. :mad:

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Pits are very friendly. Not hardly an automatic weapon. More like a 22. You must handle properly.

People kill more people than Dogs. Do we just eliminate ALL people.

:rolleyes:

You don't know much about weapons, do you?

The caliber of a weapon is based on the size of the bullet it fires. The strength and damage that the weapon can do is increased as the caliber goes up. The entire purpose of a automatic weapon is to allow someone to do more damage in a shorter amount of time.

A Pit Bull has the inbred ability to kill, maim, and destroy whatever it decides to attack. ( or is trained to attack). Get it? A lot of damage in a short amount of time!

And people killing people was made illegal 1000's of years ago just in case you didn't know.........

rockdale80

02-10-2010, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
You don't know much about weapons, do you?

The caliber of a weapon is based on the size of the bullet it fires. The strength and damage that the weapon can do is increased as the caliber goes up. The entire purpose of a automatic weapon is to allow someone to do more damage in a shorter amount of time.

A Pit Bull has the inbred ability to kill, maim, and destroy whatever it decides to attack. ( or is trained to attack). Get it? A lot of damage in a short amount of time!

And people killing people was made illegal 1000's of years ago just in case you didn't know.........

People killing people is a crime and so is a dog killing people. Why punish the rest of the breed that is loving, loyal, and great pets?

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
That's a great explaination Russ! But still the facts remain that Pit Bulls do have the ability and aptititude to be very aggressive and destructive. All dogs, to a certain extent, have this ability but the Pit Bull brings much more dangerous tools to the fight, so to speak! Your experiences with Pit Bulls have been great so far as have so many other people's experiences with Pit Bulls right before the interview on the nightly news about why their child was mauled by a Pit. Almost everyone tells the same story after the fact. "They had no idea!" or "The dog was the best dog ever"!
I guess to me it makes very little sense to take the risk if it isn't necessary. Like I said before, there are 1000 other breeds that offer the same benefits of a Pit without the risk. (regardless of how minimal you think the risk is).
I also have a wider experience with pits than most people. I used to volunteer at a rescue shelter up in the Woodlands area that accepted pits. Many that I saw come through were neglected and/or not exercised.

Farmer, we've been Downlow buds long enough for you to know how I work. I do my best to take all emotion out of a situation and rely purely on the facts. This is an emotional topic for many people, so finding pure facts is tough. It's every bit as tough as trying to find the facts between Republican and Democratic agendas.

That pit may have been the best dog ever, but the owner was usually just someone who had a dog in their yard, not someone who gave the dog the love and attention necessary. So while that dog may have been the best dog ever, 99.99% of the time the owner wasn't doing his or her part as a responsible dog owner. The other .01% of the time, the dog was unbalanced due to imbreeding. The same problems you find in Mastiffs, Chows, Akitas, Pomeranians, English Bulldogs (which is now more of just a health problem throughout the breed than a problem with imbreeding which would directly result in change of temperament) and other expensive and/or highly sought-after breeds.

Most credible dog websites will recognize the pit bull as the loving animal he is rather than the animal most think they are. After all, why would the producers of the "Little Rascals" let an animal around those kids that stood a good chance of harming them? And for that matter, why would Cesar Millan, one of the world's most-respected dog experts, use a pit bull to help retrain owners instead of his numerous other dogs?

Neither Petey (the Little Rascals' pit) nor any of Millan's numerous pits throughout the years ever had any trouble. I've never seen any proof that the fault isn't the owner's, so I have no reason to believe the reports that pit bulls are a bad breed altogether. And I used to be the one that was on the news reporting these attacks.

Wade through the myths and the emotion, Farmer. There are people that absolutely shouldn't own pit bulls. However, that doesn't mean that pits are a bad breed.

http://bullmarketfrogs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/petey-from-the-little-rascals-american-staffordshire-terrier.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/1/129175622_36fbc28a65.jpg

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 04:11 PM

I also know that we have a couple of vets on the board who have varying opinions. Maybe they could weigh in on the topic.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
You don't know much about weapons, do you?

The caliber of a weapon is based on the size of the bullet it fires. The strength and damage that the weapon can do is increased as the caliber goes up. The entire purpose of a automatic weapon is to allow someone to do more damage in a shorter amount of time.

A Pit Bull has the inbred ability to kill, maim, and destroy whatever it decides to attack. ( or is trained to attack). Get it? A lot of damage in a short amount of time!

And people killing people was made illegal 1000's of years ago just in case you didn't know......... Really... Thanks for the lesson. Have you ever seen the X- ray of a .22 that has gone through someone skull and has fragmented and ricochet around and around because it doesn't have the power to exit? :confused:

People who kill people should be dealt with but do we eliminate the whole family or the whole race? I think some guy in Germany tried that once.:thinking:

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by rockdale80
People killing people is a crime and so is a dog killing people. Why punish the rest of the breed that is loving, loyal, and great pets? :clap: :clap: My point exactly. There are some bad blood lines and some rogue animals that need to be dealt with, true. This can be done with animal control measures(spay, neuter, euthinize when necessary). Pits are wonderful if you are responsible.

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 04:23 PM

On this note, I'm out. Just here for my own viewing pleasure from now on. Interested to hear the opinions of some others, though, with the reasons. Even if it differs from my own. ;)

BleedOrange

02-10-2010, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Over the past three decades, roughly 14 attacks per year reported. Total population between 5.5 and 6 million throughout that time.

There's the pudding.

http://blogs.qc.cuny.edu/blogs/0209N0277/001/og-77.jpg

52 deaths as a result of pitbull attacks from 2006 to 2008. Not sure where you get your numbers. The number of attacks is significantly higher.

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by rockdale80
I have heard you talk about the slippery slope and banning of things and where that leads. Why change your mind on this subject?

Sure Pits can be dangerous, but so can plenty of things we do. Why do we have to such a sensitized society that because a few people die a year from a specific breed that we even discuss eliminating them? It is pretty sad that plenty of things we do in our daily lives are more destructive and dangerous than a breed of dog yet people get so worked up over a pet and want them dead. Most of it the dislike is based in ignorance and rarely on personal experience.

Name me a single thing that YOU do in your daily life that is dangerous to ME that isn't illegal or greatly controlled???????
Sorry, but YOU raising a dangerous breed of dog is not equivelent to ME doing something that is dangerous to me!

Your exact words: "Sure Pits can be dangerous"! So why have one when there are a lot of other dogs that will accomplish the same thing?

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
On this note, I'm out. Just here for my own viewing pleasure from now on. Interested to hear the opinions of some others, though, with the reasons. Even if it differs from my own. ;) I think you presented a great case Russ. The poll started out 66% in the wrong direction. Now it is 50%. I am sure that the information provided has helped ease some fears. Dogs must be cared for regardless the breed. The consequences of neglect are just magnified with the Pit Bull.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Name me a single thing that YOU do in your daily life that is dangerous to ME that isn't illegal or greatly controlled???????
Sorry, but YOU raising a dangerous breed of dog is not equivelent to ME doing something that is dangerous to me!

Your exact words: "Sure Pits can be dangerous"! So why have one when there are a lot of other dogs that will accomplish the same thing? I drive a car. I think alot more people are killed by cars than dogs aren't they??

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by BleedOrange
52 deaths as a result of pitbull attacks from 2006 to 2008. Not sure where you get your numbers. The number of attacks is significantly higher.
Real quick, that averages out to just over 17 per year. The frequency of attacks has risen significantly in the last ten years.

rockdale80

02-10-2010, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Name me a single thing that YOU do in your daily life that is dangerous to ME that isn't illegal or greatly controlled???????
Sorry, but YOU raising a dangerous breed of dog is not equivelent to ME doing something that is dangerous to me!

Your exact words: "Sure Pits can be dangerous"! So why have one when there are a lot of other dogs that will accomplish the same thing?

I drive. Guns can be dangerous. People can be dangerous. Lets outlaw everything that is dangerous? Great idea.

Farmersfan

02-10-2010, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
:clap: :clap: My point exactly. There are some bad blood lines and some rogue animals that need to be dealt with, true. This can be done with animal control measures(spay, neuter, euthinize when necessary). Pits are wonderful if you are responsible.

The thing about "bad blood lines" is that we don't know about them until they rip the throat out of a 5 year old girl or dig out of the yard and go on a poodle killing spree around the neighborhood. And we aren't dealing with a "Right to Life" issue here. Man created the breed for a specific reason. That "reason" is no longer valid in our society. If Pit Bulls were the ONLY breed of dogs then I would fight to my last breath to defend your right to own one but you have 1000s of other choices that don't represent the risk that a Pit Bull represents. I don't advocate killing all Pits that are alive today either. I would simply say to outlaw ALL breeding of them and allow the breed to die out over time. The only people who would be adversely effected by this would be those who breed or own them for a certain reason. I see 1000's of them in my job and 95% of Pit Bulls are owned because of a certain social stigma attached to them. Small boys with big toys could not apply more than in this subject. The vast majority of Pit Bull owners own them just so they can say their dog can beat the hell out of your dog!!!!! I'm not saying everyone! But most.

jason

02-10-2010, 05:00 PM

my dog has the strength and bite power to bring a grown man down - but he is so spoiled, loved, and socialized, the only thing he really goes after is a frisbee.....

and the occasional squirrel....

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1613/97315332937484465550269.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6421/20976539571857066555026.jpg

TheDOCTORdre

02-10-2010, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by turbostud
Let the record show I voted before this thread gets closed.

No I was here before it got closed

coach

02-10-2010, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by waterboy
I concur. My cousin had a pit bull one time. The dog went off on a friend's dog in my yard. After trying to get his dog off the other dog without success, I walked into the house, got my .380, and gave my cousin the choice. He said, "Go ahead." I proceeded to shoot the dog once......NO EFFECT......twice, NO EFFECT.....I shot the dog seven times before he died!:eek: He did finally relax his jaws after the fourth shot, though....:eek:

you must be a bad shot

Phantom Stang

02-10-2010, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by jason
my dog has the strength and bite power to bring a grown man down - but he is so spoiled, loved, and socialized, the only thing he really goes after is a frisbee.....

and the occasional squirrel....

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1613/97315332937484465550269.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6421/20976539571857066555026.jpg
That's all well and good, but your breed of dog isn't proven to be able to whip every other breed of dog on the planet.

Another thing. The fact that your dog isn't aggressive toward children and other dogs, in no way signifies you're an "expert" in "proper" dog rearing.:rolleyes:

BTW I love Austrailian Shepperds.:)

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The thing about "bad blood lines" is that we don't know about them until they rip the throat out of a 5 year old girl or dig out of the yard and go on a poodle killing spree around the neighborhood. And we aren't dealing with a "Right to Life" issue here. Man created the breed for a specific reason. That "reason" is no longer valid in our society. If Pit Bulls were the ONLY breed of dogs then I would fight to my last breath to defend your right to own one but you have 1000s of other choices that don't represent the risk that a Pit Bull represents. I don't advocate killing all Pits that are alive today either. I would simply say to outlaw ALL breeding of them and allow the breed to die out over time. The only people who would be adversely effected by this would be those who breed or own them for a certain reason. I see 1000's of them in my job and 95% of Pit Bulls are owned because of a certain social stigma attached to them. Small boys with big toys could not apply more than in this subject. The vast majority of Pit Bull owners own them just so they can say their dog can beat the hell out of your dog!!!!! I'm not saying everyone! But most. There is a big difference between blood lines and individual animals. Blood lines are fairly easy to trace if you do a little work. As for the rest of your argument I would like to see some statistical backup of that 95%. I have seen posts from 2 owners on here and neither of us has said anything about our dogs "beating the hell out of anything." So according to my stats 100% of 3ADL Pit Bulls are sissies.
I have owned several different breeds over the years and none of them are as socialable as the 2 Pit Bulls that I have owned.

Txbroadcaster

02-10-2010, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
That's all well and good, but your breed of dog isn't proven to be able to whip every other breed of dog on the planet.

Another thing. The fact that your dog isn't aggressive toward children and other dogs, in no way signifies you're an "expert" in "proper" dog rearing.:rolleyes:

BTW I love Austrailian Shepperds.:)

I tell u what..AS dogs CAN be pretty dang tough when they need to be. I would not count them out in a fight

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I would fight to my last breath to defend your right to own one but you have 1000s of other choices.... I see 1000's of them in my job.... Small boys with big toys could not apply more than in this subject. Do you drive a Prius? Do you expect everyone else to drive a Prius....or do you drive one them there big ole 4 wheel drives with the big ole lift kits and the gumbo mudders and such. I bet more people are killed by 4X4s than Prius so lets just get rid of them.

I see thousands of other choices... What was that about small things again???

BleedOrange

02-10-2010, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Real quick, that averages out to just over 17 per year. The frequency of attacks has risen significantly in the last ten years.

You referenced attacks not death as a result of an attack. If you were referring to deaths only I understand. If not, your number is not even close.

sinfan75

02-10-2010, 05:50 PM

Hell my chihuahua's meaner than my pit ever was.:D

Phantom Stang

02-10-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Hell my chihuahua's meaner than my pit ever was.:D
Can you imagine someone transplanting a chihuahua's brain into a mastiff?:eek:

DDBooger

02-10-2010, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
Can you imagine someone transplanting a chihuahua's brain into a mastiff?:eek: It would threaten the mountain lion for supremacy in North America :D

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by sinfan75
Hell my chihuahua's meaner than my pit ever was.:D Meanest dog I ever saw was a poodle. The people were like "he won't bite". I turn my back and stupid dog jumped in a chair and latched onto my ***. At least I wasn't facing him.:D

sinfan75

02-10-2010, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by jason
my dog has the strength and bite power to bring a grown man down - but he is so spoiled, loved, and socialized, the only thing he really goes after is a frisbee.....

and the occasional squirrel....

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1613/97315332937484465550269.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/6421/20976539571857066555026.jpg Now that breed is a trip. Lots of friends who have/had healers and we had one at work. I had one before I my pit (runaway show steer crushed his skull). Fun dogs to have.

sinfan75

02-10-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Meanest dog I ever saw was a poodle. The people were like "he won't bite". I turn my back and stupid dog jumped in a chair and latched onto my ***. At least I wasn't facing him.:D :D :D :D

big daddy russ

02-10-2010, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by BleedOrange
You referenced attacks not death as a result of an attack. If you were referring to deaths only I understand. If not, your number is not even close.
You're absolutely right. I got my stats mixed up. It's 14 DEATHS per year, roughly 80 attacks per year since 1981.

Of note, that number has increased significantly over the last ten years. It jumped up to 17.33 deaths per year and about 104 attacks per year. It's actually a trend among all dog breeds, I just don't know why.

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
...Another thing. The fact that your dog isn't aggressive toward children and other dogs, in no way signifies you're an "expert" in "proper" dog rearing.:rolleyes:...
I'm assuming you're referring to me? Didn't mean at all to come across like that. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm no expert, just an owner who puts forth a little effort.

Originally posted by big daddy russ
...I also got a bit lucky...

...I'll be the first to admit that we're not the perfect owners. We let him get away with a little too much and let some bad habits slide, but in two-and-a-half years he's never even shown hints of aggressive behavior towards anything except squirrels.

Black_Magic

02-10-2010, 06:45 PM

THIS VIDEO REMINDS ME OF ALL THIS
VIDEO LINK (http://www.vidivodo.com/311369/)

be patient its funny

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 07:59 PM

We've had this discussion many times before.
BDR, you did justice to reason and responsible ownership. Kudos.

Links on previous discussions:
2009 (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=94757&perpage=40&highlight=pitbulls&pagenumber=2)
Earlier 2009 (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=94139&perpage=40&highlight=pitbulls&pagenumber=1)
2008 (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=83564&highlight=pitbulls)

Yada yada yada...
Here's the link for the search: It pretty much shows all "pit bull threads" are eventually closed. Link (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=190076&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

Phantom Stang

02-10-2010, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ

I'm assuming you're referring to me? Didn't mean at all to come across like that. Like I said in an earlier post, I'm no expert, just an owner who puts forth a little effort.
Not you specifically, but it seems that every time someone posts about a pitt bull attack, someone else will respond with something to the effect of "it was because the owners didn't socialize it "properly", or didn't exercise it "properly" blah blah blah.

Having said that, I respect anyone's love for their pet. That's what makes this subject difficult for me.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 10:24 PM

Inbreeding...lack of attention... WHATEVER. If I inbred a couple german shorthairs, or a couple hounds, you can bet your bottom dollar they wouldn't maul some kids randomly one day.

Can't argue with the facts...

It's the classic argument that I've seen on this board from time to time: "Tommy gets in a fight with Billy. Then Tommy gets in a brawl with Joe. Then Tommy beats up Carl."

UHMM, Tommy is the problem folks!
Same thing with Pit-bulls. Raising them well or not raising them well doesn't matter. We wouldn't be talking about them being a threat if they weren't the most aggressive, psychotic dog. Period. For us to even be conversing about them being a problem means that they are a problem! We aren't talking about any other dogs on here. I've never heard "Man my hound dog just mauled my little niece yesterday!" Or "Gosh dangit my sweet little bird dog just attacked a kid."

And bird dogs are trained to hunt for gods sake.

Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out.

rockdale80

02-10-2010, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Inbreeding...lack of attention... WHATEVER. If I inbred a couple german shorthairs, or a couple hounds, you can bet your bottom dollar they wouldn't maul some kids randomly one day.

Can't argue with the facts...

It's the classic argument that I've seen on this board from time to time: "Tommy gets in a fight with Billy. Then Tommy gets in a brawl with Joe. Then Tommy beats up Carl."

UHMM, Tommy is the problem folks!
Same thing with Pit-bulls. Raising them well or not raising them well doesn't matter. We wouldn't be talking about them being a threat if they weren't the most aggressive, psychotic dog. Period. For us to even be conversing about them being a problem means that they are a problem! We aren't talking about any other dogs on here. I've never heard "Man my hound dog just mauled my little niece yesterday!" Or "Gosh dangit my sweet little bird dog just attacked a kid."

And bird dogs are trained to hunt for gods sake.

Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out.

What about the cribs??:rolleyes:

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by rockdale80
What about the cribs??:rolleyes:

dog thread. not crib thread.

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out.

So it is OK for you to kill a perfectly docile pit bull that had no chance of harming anyone at all? One that might have been a great family pet and/or lived to a ripe old age of 12 or so...
Is that a fact?

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
So it is OK for you to kill a perfectly docile pit bull that had no chance of harming anyone at all? One that might have been a great family pet and/or lived to a ripe old age of 12 or so...
Is that a fact?

Yeah I am going to go roam some city parks and just down pit-bulls when I see them. Come on, have some sense.

You know what I meant.. If it's on my land it's done cakes.

If it's not on my land I would never touch another persons property (in this case a dog) unless it could potentially harm me or anyone else.

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Yeah I am going to go roam some city parks and just down pit-bulls when I see them. Come on, have some sense.

You know what I meant.. If it's on my land it's done cakes.

If it's not on my land I would never touch another persons property (in this case a dog) unless it could potentially harm me or anyone else.

Have you read all the other threads about this subject?
Did you read your words when you posted,
"Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out."

You yourself stated you have carried out that principle, regardless of the consequences(I added that there because you didn't mention that). I don't speak for common sense but you posted those words.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11

Can't argue with the facts...

Please enlighten us with some "facts"??

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
Have you read all the other threads about this subject?
Did you read your words when you posted,
"Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out."

You yourself stated you have carried out that principle, regardless of the consequences(I added that there because you didn't mention that). I don't speak for common sense but you posted those words.

You accomplished nothing in this post.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Please enlighten us with some "facts"??

They've already been provided above. Have you not read above?

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11

You know what I meant.. If it's on my land it's done cakes.

If it's not on my land I would never touch another persons property. So you are going to kill the dogs of irresponsible or neglectful owners....and not touch those of responsible owners. :D

Nice to see ya switch sides so easily:thumbsup:

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
They've already been provided above. Have you not read above? Let's see.... Myth....conjecture....bias..... Ummmm nope NO facts.:thinking:

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
So you are going to kill the dogs of irresponsible or neglectful owners....and not touch those of responsible owners. :D

Nice to see ya switch sides so easily:thumbsup:

lol funny. Hey I'm not knocking people who own them. And I'm not saying that the breed should be banished. All I am saying is that when they are on my property...

(I better not finish that sentence because I am not aware of the consequences and apparently Sintonfan can apprehend me and/or punish me)

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Let's see.... Myth....conjecture....bias..... Ummmm nope NO facts.:thinking:

Pit..... bulls... have...killed... and/or....attacked... more.... people/dogs.... than... any...other...breed....

That IS TRUE

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
lol funny. Hey I'm not knocking people who own them. And I'm not saying that the breed should be banished. All I am saying is that when they are on my property...

(I better not finish that sentence because I am not aware of the consequences and apparently Sintonfan can apprehend me and/or punish me) We are in somewhat of an agreement on that issue. I do not believe that any dog, and certainly not a Pit Bull, should be allowed to roam and breed at will. If you are allowing your Pit to wander you are asking for trouble. It is these dogs and the ones that have been bred for fighting that give Pits their bad reputation.

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
We are in somewhat of an agreement on that issue. I do not believe that any dog, and certainly not a Pit Bull, should be allowed to roam and breed at will. If you are allowing your Pit to wander you are asking for trouble. It is these dogs and the ones that have been bred for fighting that give Pits their bad reputation.

True. But you just said "certainly not a Pit Bull".

Why did you say that if they aren't a problem?

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 11:53 PM

Daddy D 11

02-10-2010, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by SintonFan
Nothing was implied as such.

Nothing was implied that I am going to kill a docile, calm pit bull either.

Nothing implied that I wouldn't, but nothing implied that I would.

LE Dad

02-10-2010, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Pit..... bulls... have...killed... and/or....attacked... more.... people/dogs.... than... any...other...breed....

That IS TRUE At one time or another the same was said of German Shepards, Rotweilers, and various other breeds that were the "it" dog. Over time the popularity of the Pit will diminish and it will be replaced by another breed on the list of "killer dogs".

SintonFan

02-10-2010, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Nothing was implied that I am going to kill a docile, calm pit bull either.

Nothing implied that I wouldn't, but nothing implied that I would.

lol
If a calm docile pit bull is on your property you would kill it. That was implied.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
At one time or another the same was said of German Shepards, Rotweilers, and various other breeds that were the "it" dog. Over time the popularity of the Pit will diminish and it will be replaced by another breed on the list of "killer dogs".

I agree with that. But being humans.. and being in control of lesser beings (dogs) we can control these problems. If the animal is even being considered as a "killer dog" in my opinion it needs a bullet. There are plenty of other options out there that aren't threats.

And pertaining to the stupid reference that someone mentioned earlier about "well humans kill people so shouldn't we kill humans if we are going to kill pits?"

.. We put away for life or execute people that kill humans. Or if you attempt to, you are put away for a long while. If there was a certain race or ethnicity that was continually killing other human you better believe action would be taken. Whether it be by incarceration or execution. So that argument holds no water.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
lol
If a calm docile pit bull is on your property you would kill it. That was implied.

And there's a problem with that?

SintonFan

02-11-2010, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
And there's a problem with that?

Not for you, but I have accomplished something finally if you answer this:
How many pit bulls have you killed?

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
lol
If a calm docile pit bull is on your property you would kill it. That was implied.

I never said calm docile pit bull on my property is going to be killed. YOU implied that.

But I have to ask... have you ever seen a pit bull running around that leaped into your lap and licked your face? Heck, have you even had a wild pitbull approach you without threatening you? And are you saying that you would allow a pit bull that's running wild to approach your children, family members, other pets, etc. without killing it?

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
Not for you, but I have accomplished something finally if you answer this:
How many pit bulls have you killed?

Accomplished something? What are you the animal police?

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
True. But you just said "certainly not a Pit Bull".

Why did you say that if they aren't a problem? They are not... The offspring that they produce are. Those are the ones that get spread around and given away. That is where the problems start, because when that stray mut that no one cares about bites someone, if it is 1/8 Pit.... Well you don't ever hear about the other 7/8 on the News. Just once I would like to hear " Today a begal, collie, shitzu, pit mix attacked a man". It is not that pure bred, properly raised animals won't, but it is alot less likely.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
Not for you, but I have accomplished something finally if you answer this:
How many pit bulls have you killed?

I realized a long time ago that that is all you wanted me to say...

Why do you need to know?
Why do you even care?

SintonFan

02-11-2010, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Accomplished something? What are you the animal police?

You didn't answer the question.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
They are not... The offspring that they produce are. Those are the ones that get spread around and given away. That is where the problems start, because when that stray mut that no one cares about bites someone, if it is 1/8 Pit.... Well you don't ever hear about the other 7/8 on the News. Just once I would like to hear " Today a begal, collie, shitzu, pit mix attacked a man". It is not that pure bred, properly raised animals won't, but it is alot less likely.

But once again... a lab that is 1/8 german shorthair isn't a problem. But a lab that is 1/8 pitbull becomes a problem.

So obviously there is something wrong with the breed. You shouldn't have to obsessively spend time with your dog so that it will not maul humans.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
You didn't answer the question.

LOL and I don't have to. Nor do I intend to.

You have absolutely nothing that could make me either.

SintonFan

02-11-2010, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I realized a long time ago that that is all you wanted me to say...

Why do you need to know?
Why do you even care?

Sorry but you have already admitted to killing a pit bull when you posted,
"Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out."

It sure looked of braggadocios in a disturbing kind of way. Hence the questions.
Do I care? Yes. If I lost a loving pit bull and it happened to be on your property it would be dead.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I never said calm docile pit bull on my property is going to be killed. YOU implied that.

But I have to ask... have you ever seen a pit bull running around that leaped into your lap and licked your face? Heck, have you even had a wild pitbull approach you without threatening you? And are you saying that you would allow a pit bull that's running wild to approach your children, family members, other pets, etc. without killing it?

You never answered the question.

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I agree with that. But being humans.. and being in control of lesser beings (dogs) we can control these problems. If the animal is even being considered as a "killer dog" in my opinion it needs a bullet. There are plenty of other options out there that aren't threats.

And pertaining to the stupid reference that someone mentioned earlier about "well humans kill people so shouldn't we kill humans if we are going to kill pits?"

.. We put away for life or execute people that kill humans. Or if you attempt to, you are put away for a long while. If there was a certain race or ethnicity that was continually killing other human you better believe action would be taken. Whether it be by incarceration or execution. So that argument holds no water. The quote was "kill ALL people" as an answer to exterminating the breed. I agree the bloodlines need to be checked and purified. As far as one race killing another and action being taken... Look around it is happening daily around the world.

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
Sorry but you have already admitted to killing a pit bull when you posted,
"Bottom line... a dead pit-bull is a good pit-bull. And when given the oppurtunity, I have and will carry that principle out."

It sure looked of braggadocios in a disturbing kind of way. Hence the questions.
Do I care? Yes. If I lost a loving pit bull and it happened to be on your property it would be dead.

I never denied. You asked how many. I said I would not answer. Once again you are making no sense. Which my first post directed at you entailed. I said "have some sense" and you obviously do not.

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
But once again... a lab that is 1/8 german shorthair isn't a problem. But a lab that is 1/8 pitbull becomes a problem.

So obviously there is something wrong with the breed. You shouldn't have to obsessively spend time with your dog so that it will not maul humans. Are you sure? Again how many attacks are by fullblood Pit Bulls?

SintonFan

02-11-2010, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I never said calm docile pit bull on my property is going to be killed. YOU implied that.

But I have to ask... 1. have you ever seen a pit bull running around that leaped into your lap and licked your face? 2. Heck, have you even had a wild pitbull approach you without threatening you? 3. And are you saying that you would allow a pit bull that's running wild to approach your children, family members, other pets, etc. without killing it?

I'm game.
1. Yes, several times.
2. No. I've never had an interaction with a wild pit bull.
3. Yes. Then again I have seen a full grown fenced Tiger at Waynes World(outside of Mathis) ready to pounce on my 4 year old son. That was freaky!

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Are you sure? Again how many attacks are by fullblood Pit Bulls?

more full blooded pit bulls have attacked people than full blooded anything else. I'm not understanding what you are trying to argue?:thinking: So what if it's only 1/8 pitbull, when dogs attack they almost always have SOME amount of pitbull in them. Obviously there is a problem here.

If a small amount of german shorthair blood line kept popping up in dog attacks then it would become a problem. But it's not. Pitbulls are popping up in a large percentage of attacks.

SintonFan

02-11-2010, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
I never denied. You asked how many. I said I would not answer. Once again you are making no sense. Which my first post directed at you entailed. I said "have some sense" and you obviously do not.

You imply that some of my post don't make sense to you. Who says that is a bad thing?:p

BTW, DD11:
I have had more dog interactions(all breeds) than the vast majority of people. I do consider myself, maybe not an expert, but someone who does have considerable knowledge on this subject.

Good night. Hopefully we can continue this tomorrow.

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan

2. No. I've never had an interaction with a wild pit bull.
:clap: :clap: That is a funny one.:D

Is there like a "wild Pit Bull" trainer at the circus... Watch now as Igor gets Simba the "wild Pit" to leap through the flaming hoop. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by SintonFan
You imply that some of my post don't make sense to you. Who says that is a bad thing?:p

BTW, DD11:
I have had more dog interactions(all breeds) than the vast majority of people. I do consider myself, maybe not an expert, but someone who does have considerable knowledge on this subject.

Good night. Hopefully we can continue this tomorrow.

Never said you are wrong. Just no need to pry.. that is all. What I do isn't your business? No matter if I post something or not.

We will not continue this tomorrow bc it is a dumb argument and can go no where that is positive or constructive.

Truce lol

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
more full blooded pit bulls have attacked people than full blooded anything else. I'm not understanding what you are trying to argue?:thinking: So what if it's only 1/8 pitbull, when dogs attack they almost always have SOME amount of pitbull in them. Obviously there is a problem here.

If a small amount of german shorthair blood line kept popping up in dog attacks then it would become a problem. But it's not. Pitbulls are popping up in a large percentage of attacks. How many? Give me some #s. All I am seeing is: more, alot, almost always and so on and so forth. How many of these attacks that are by mixed breeds do have German Shorthair in them? Do you have any idea. NO because all you are fixated on is Pit Bull. How many attacks by German Shorthairs go unreported because the victim is embarresed? How many Shorthair attacks are blamed on Pits because the victim is embarresed? Give me some facts...

Daddy D 11

02-11-2010, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
How many? Give me some #s. All I am seeing is: more, alot, almost always and so on and so forth. How many of these attacks that are by mixed breeds do have German Shorthair in them? Do you have any idea. NO because all you are fixated on is Pit Bull. How many attacks by German Shorthairs go unreported because the victim is embarresed? How many Shorthair attacks are blamed on Pits because the victim is embarresed? Give me some facts...

lemme login to the dog database real quick. dude it's common knowledge that pitbulls are frequently in the news for attacks. do you remember hearing about any other dog attacks recently that weren't pit bulls? people wouldn't have this "biased notion" about pit bulls unless there was a frequency in hearing about and or seeing attacks from them. The notion that pitbulls are the most dangerous breed wasn't just determined out of the blue one day dude

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
lemme login to the dog database real quick. dude it's common knowledge that pitbulls are frequently in the news for attacks. do you remember hearing about any other dog attacks recently that weren't pit bulls? people wouldn't have this "biased notion" about pit bulls unless there was a frequency in hearing about and or seeing attacks from them. The notion that pitbulls are the most dangerous breed wasn't just determined out of the blue one day dude Pits and Pit mixes are responsible for the majority of attacks, followed not too far by Rotweiler and mixes. If you get rid of Pits next you will get rid of Rots, then Sheps, maybe Dobs possibly even Shorthairs. Fact is fearful people are always going to find something to fear. Responsible people educate thmselves and others with reason and facts.:D

G'night :sleeping:

Farmersfan

02-11-2010, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
The quote was "kill ALL people" as an answer to exterminating the breed. I agree the bloodlines need to be checked and purified. As far as one race killing another and action being taken... Look around it is happening daily around the world.

Perhaps you need to do a little more research on "The Breed". It never was pure and it was created to be exactly what it is. And all animals can be trained to attack, kill and maim other animals and humans. Unlike all the other breeds though, this one has special tools breed into it to make that job easier.
If you want to make the breed "PURE" you would have to take it back to a pure Terrier or bulldog line.

"The American Pit Bull Terrier is the product of interbreeding between terriers and a breed of bulldogs to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog.[1] These dogs were initially bred in England, Ireland, and Scotland, and arrived in the United States with immigrants from these countries. In the United States, these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions;[1] however, some were selectively bred for their fighting prowess,[5] and starting in the early 20th century, they began to replace the bull terrier as the "dog of choice" for dog fighting in the United States."

rockdale80

02-11-2010, 10:50 AM

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Perhaps you need to do a little more research on "The Breed". It never was pure and it was created to be exactly what it is. And all animals can be trained to attack, kill and maim other animals and humans. Unlike all the other breeds though, this one has special tools breed into it to make that job easier.
If you want to make the breed "PURE" you would have to take it back to a pure Terrier or bulldog line.

"The American Pit Bull Terrier is the product of interbreeding between terriers and a breed of bulldogs to produce a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the bulldog.[1] These dogs were initially bred in England, Ireland, and Scotland, and arrived in the United States with immigrants from these countries. In the United States, these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions;[1] however, some were selectively bred for their fighting prowess,[5] and starting in the early 20th century, they began to replace the bull terrier as the "dog of choice" for dog fighting in the United States." Thank you for proving my point so well. Some of the bloodlines need to be done away with. The breed is still very good. The Pit breed is as Pure as many breeds. Everything from cattle to corn has been altered to bring out desirable traits. Once the traits are acheived, standards are set, a registry is formed, and all animals that meet that standard through bloodlines are considered purebred.

Santa Gertrudis cattle were formed by the mixing several different breeds of cattle together on King Ranch to get certain traits that made them desirable to own. All of the origional
bloodlines traced back to King 55. The breed was and is considered pure as long as it possesed the qualities described and its bloodlines traced back to a 55 descendant.

Other than proving my point you have done little with that post, and you have yet to answer any quetions I have posed to you. I am guessing by reading what you post and what you fail to respond to that you...

A. Drive a Prius or walk... Since driving is more likely to result in injury or death than a Pit Bull.
B. Own no gun larger than a .22... Since rifles, semi AUTOMATICS and larger caliber guns are designed to kill more effectively
C. Own a cat or small dog because most larger breeds, such as the Pit Bull are designed to hunt or herd.

Farmersfan

02-11-2010, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by rockdale80
What about the cribs? They kill more people than all dogs combined. You should shatter it into pieces and put them in your fireplace. Also, hang up the keys and dont drive. I dont want anything happening to you baby boy.

I use to think you were intelligent rockdale80! Misquided, but intelligent. I am doubting that now!
A single child dies in a "Crib" related accident and this country goes on the offensive and those cribs are recalled and destroyed! How is that relative to this discussion? And our society has decided that driving is dangerous at all times so we will force everyone who wants to drive to go through a training course and take a test. We also will MINIMIZE the threat by only allowing people to drive certain speeds and they must have their vehicles meet certain safety standards.
There are no training classes, liscenses, safety standards or speed limits in raising dogs. Raising a Pit Bull would be relative to driving 90mph on the highways! You might not ever have a problem but IF you do-You or someone else will die! For everyone involved it isn't worth the risk.
You want a loving family pet? Buy a poodle and name him sparky! You want a dog that can kill? Buy a Pit Bull and name him THOR!!!!

ASUFrisbeeStud

02-11-2010, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan

Buy a poodle and name him sparky! You want a dog that can kill? Buy a Pit Bull and name him THOR!!!!

Don't poodles have the highest bite rate out of any dog?

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 11:22 AM

Farmers Fan you are entitled to your opinion....

...it is incorrect, but you are entitled to it.:D

You tend to pick and choose what you respond to because there are so many more things that are WAAAAAAAY more dangerous than a dog, and you can not argue against that.
Why don't you try tackling one of those issues.
You might get alot more support??
Are there flaws in this breed? Sure,
and responsible owners are working hard to correct them.

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by ASUFrisbeeStud
Don't poodles have the highest bite rate out of any dog? I have a scar that says they do.:mad:

LE Dad

02-11-2010, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan

And our society has decided that driving is dangerous at all times so we will force everyone who wants to drive to go through a training course and take a test. We also will MINIMIZE the threat by only allowing people to drive certain speeds and they must have their vehicles meet certain safety standards.
There are no training classes, liscenses, safety standards or speed limits in raising dogs. So once again you are agreeing with my point. Alot of things ARE more dangerous... And in fact maybe it is not the ownership of the car or animal but the improper handling of the car or animal...:thinking:

rockdale80

02-11-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I use to think you were intelligent rockdale80! Misquided, but intelligent. I am doubting that now!
A single child dies in a "Crib" related accident and this country goes on the offensive and those cribs are recalled and destroyed! How is that relative to this discussion? And our society has decided that driving is dangerous at all times so we will force everyone who wants to drive to go through a training course and take a test. We also will MINIMIZE the threat by only allowing people to drive certain speeds and they must have their vehicles meet certain safety standards.
There are no training classes, liscenses, safety standards or speed limits in raising dogs. Raising a Pit Bull would be relative to driving 90mph on the highways! You might not ever have a problem but IF you do-You or someone else will die! For everyone involved it isn't worth the risk.
You want a loving family pet? Buy a poodle and name him sparky! You want a dog that can kill? Buy a Pit Bull and name him THOR!!!!

It isnt a single child and it is more children killed by defective cribs than total people killed by pit bulls. I dont understand how someone with such staunch convictions about the government staying away from personal freedoms would even contemplate agreeing with the idea that we need to get rid of a dog breed. I didnt know you were so scared of a pet.

ASUFrisbeeStud

02-11-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by rockdale80
It isnt a single child and it is more children killed by defective cribs than total people killed by pit bulls. I dont understand how someone with such staunch convictions about the government staying away from personal freedoms would even contemplate agreeing with the idea that we need to get rid of a dog breed. I didnt know you were so scared of a pet.

Not worth arguing with Farmersfan, I'd call him something but I already have too many warning points.

Farmersfan

02-11-2010, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Thank you for proving my point so well. Some of the bloodlines need to be done away with. The breed is still very good. The Pit breed is as Pure as many breeds. Everything from cattle to corn has been altered to bring out desirable traits. Once the traits are acheived, standards are set, a registry is formed, and all animals that meet that standard through bloodlines are considered purebred.

Santa Gertrudis cattle were formed by the mixing several different breeds of cattle together on King Ranch to get certain traits that made them desirable to own. All of the origional
bloodlines traced back to King 55. The breed was and is considered pure as long as it possesed the qualities described and its bloodlines traced back to a 55 descendant.

Other than proving my point you have done little with that post, and you have yet to answer any quetions I have posed to you. I am guessing by reading what you post and what you fail to respond to that you...

A. Drive a Prius or walk... Since driving is more likely to result in injury or death than a Pit Bull.
B. Own no gun larger than a .22... Since rifles, semi AUTOMATICS and larger caliber guns are designed to kill more effectively
C. Own a cat or small dog because most larger breeds, such as the Pit Bull are designed to hunt or herd.

I was not aware that you had asked me any questions. And you are mistaken in your belief that the breed is pure. The AKC does not even recognize the American Pit Bull as a pure breed and will only recognzie the American Staffordshire Terrier. Pit Bull enthusiasts created the UKC to establish pure breed status for the Pit Bull over 100 years ago when they bred them to fight.
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpitbullterrier.html

1. Driving is necessary for our way of life. It's a required risk. Pit Bulls are not!
2. Guns are harmless peices of metal weilded into form to provide PEOPLE a way to kill. I don't have a problem with making guns that are extreme illegal. Pit Bulls would also be "extreme".
3. Hunting and Herding are not at issue with the Pit Bull. It's the OTHER purpose that ONLY this breed was bred to do that is at issue.