Hi or Bye Wade?

[Bullaholic]

At this point does Wade Phillips keep his HC job with the Cowboys, or does he still have one foot out the door?

I say it is looking more and more like Wade returns next season, especially if the Cowboys win next week, and for sure if they win more than one playoff game. The Cowboy "D" may save Wade after all.

[Farmersfan]

I would have said definently Wade was GONE no matter what happens from here on out but I heard an interesting spin on it this morning. With the NFL lockout almost a given in 2011 it almost makes sense for Jerry to bring Wade back on his 1 year contract option. That means Jerry doesn't pay a coach for NOT COACHING in 2011 and once the situation is settled he can bring in whoever he wants to start fresh in 2012.
Has anyone considered the fact that the Cowboys have the 2011 Superbowl here in Dallas but it looks like that season could be canceled or lockout shortened? Will the NFL move the Superbowl schedule forward 1 year if the entire season is lost due to a strike?

[waterboy]

Honestly, I don't think Wade will be back next year, regardless of what happens this year. I would like to say he'll be back as the defensive coordinator, but I don't think he will.:( Now, if the Cowboys win the Super Bowl...........a long shot, I know............I might just rethink this one......;)

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by waterboy
Honestly, I don't think Wade will be back next year, regardless of what happens this year. I would like to say he'll be back as the defensive coordinator, but I don't think he will.:( Now, if the Cowboys win the Super Bowl...........a long shot, I know............I might just rethink this one......;)

waterboy--that's a good thought. I think Wade just might say "I've had enough" of this HC thing to Jerry at the end of this season, and would maybe tender staying on as DC.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
waterboy--that's a good thought. I think Wade just might say "I've had enough" of this HC thing to Jerry at the end of this season, and would maybe tender staying on as DC.

I think Phillips has way to much pride to take a demotion to DC..I know it has happened in the past, but I just dont see Wade saying hey I have won 66% of the games since I came here 2 out of 3 NFC East Titles, but if you think I am not good enough, I will just be the DC.

[ol country boy]

If the cowboys lose this week to he is done. NFC East Titles don't matter....needs a Playoff Victory

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I think Phillips has way to much pride to take a demotion to DC..I know it has happened in the past, but I just dont see Wade saying hey I have won 66% of the games since I came here 2 out of 3 NFC East Titles, but if you think I am not good enough, I will just be the DC.

I see similarities between Dave Campo and Wade, TxB. Both have had their shots at HC jobs, both are older men near the end of their coaching careers, both are basically JJ "yes" men, and I think both grew very tired of life at the top, especially with Jerry Jones and the weight that the Cowboy HC job carries. I don't think Wade's ego is even a factor---I think he is looking for a place in the sun.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I think Phillips has way to much pride to take a demotion to DC..I know it has happened in the past, but I just dont see Wade saying hey I have won 66% of the games since I came here 2 out of 3 NFC East Titles, but if you think I am not good enough, I will just be the DC.




How about if you add in the facts that Wade was handed what could have been the most talented team in the NFL and only managed 66% wins, ZERO playoffs wins and his teams have always faded like a Red shirt in Farmerfan's laundry every single season in December????? And if the Cowboys lose on Saturday we can also say both times he won the NFC East he lost the first round to another NFC east team that he had beaten TWICE already that season. Or consider the fact that his teams have led the NFL in penalties every season and generally underperformed to the extent that the Dallas Cowboys have lost more fans in the last 3 seasons than in the previous 50 years???????? And throw in the idea that only Mike Leach at Tech has a bigger rep. around the football world for being a general Goofball or weird guy than does Wade Philips. How much "Pride" should Wade Philips have about that? Just wondering................:D

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
I see similarities between Dave Campo and Wade, TxB. Both have had their shots at HC jobs, both are older men near the end of their coaching careers, both are basically JJ "yes" men, and I think both grew very tired of life at the top, especially with Jerry Jones and the weight that the Cowboy HC job carries. I don't think Wade's ego is even a factor---I think he is looking for a place in the sun.

BIG difference imo..Campo failed as a HC..no winning seasons..and it was a few seasons before he came back into the Cowboy Family.

Phillips has had success and I honestly dont think he is weary of being a HC..I tink he loves it

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
How about if you add in the facts that Wade was handed what could have been the most talented team in the NFL and only managed 66% wins, ZERO playoffs wins and his teams have always faded like a Red shirt in Farmerfan's laundry every single season in December????? And if the Cowboys lose on Saturday we can also say both times he won the NFC East he lost the first round to another NFC east team that he had beaten TWICE already that season. Or consider the fact that his teams have led the NFL in penalties every season and generally underperformed to the extent that the Dallas Cowboys have lost more fans in the last 3 seasons than in the previous 50 years???????? And throw in the idea that only Mike Leach at Tech has a bigger rep. around the football world for being a general Goofball or weird guy than does Wade Philips. How much "Pride" should Wade Philips have about that? Just wondering................:D

that oh so talented Roster you talk about that before Phillips had ONE 10 win season under Parcells( when most of the talent now was not on the roster or a big part of the reason why they had 10 wins)

look i am not a great fan of Phillips..but he has the right to feel he has done a solid job

[Maroon87]

I'm no huge Wade fan but the Cowboys are peaking at the right time. Coaching has a lot to do with that. I say if the Boys put together a nice playoff run, bring him back.

[crzyjournalist03]

Read one local report today where Jerry claims that he's already drafting a contract extension for Phillips.

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
Read one local report today where Jerry claims that he's already drafting a contract extension for Phillips.

insert 4 letter word here

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
insert 4 letter word here

"good" ? :D

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
that oh so talented Roster you talk about that before Phillips had ONE 10 win season under Parcells( when most of the talent now was not on the roster or a big part of the reason why they had 10 wins)

look i am not a great fan of Phillips..but he has the right to feel he has done a solid job



Wade has done a solid job. He has taken a very talented group of players and managed to put together a winning record. If that's how you measure a coach then by all means let's give Wade a passing grade. But if you measure the qualities of a coach by examining how his performance compares to logical expectations or results vs. potential then Wade gets a F! And it's not just a Dallas thing. Wade has failed in the playoffs for every single team he has coached as a HC or a cordinator. I judge the performance of a coach by the discipline, effort and desire of his players. So far-so good this season! but in the past his teams have QUIT at crunchtime and failed to perform when it mattered most. I personally think a player will rarely live up to his potential unless someone holds him accountable and Wade has a protective (overly positive) attitude that in my mind ENABLES underacheivement. Wade has been part of some great defenses in his career but was that because of Wade or despite Wade????

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
. Wade has been part of some great defenses in his career but was that because of Wade or despite Wade????

Like him or not as a HC his ability as a defensive Cord IMO is untouchable. He has proven time and time again he knows what he is doing as far as his 3-4 scheme and what to call.

You keep talking about this talented group..and yes Dallas has talent..you have to have it to be 11-5..but you keep acting like this team is stacked like the 90's Cowboys with top 3 starters at every position and I just disagree.

[Farmersfan]

How many Pro Bowl selections did this team have in 07? I believe they set a modern era record for the most Pro Bowlers on one team. And this defense has just the last two weeks managed two shutouts in a row which has NEVER been done in Cowboys history. This team is almost as talented as the early 90's Cowboys were. The difference? Discipline and Coaching!

There is only ONE team that is picked every single season in the top 5 or 10 teams in the league who has NOT WON a playoff game and who has generally underachieved every single season. That's our Dallas Cowboys. Well, why would anyone pick them as a top 10 team after that moronic season last year?????? One reason and one reason only!!!! TALENT! EXPECTATIONS! Ok, that's two reasons. But you get the point. Vegas and the Pros that follow this sports as a means to make a living aren't stupid. They know how to evaluate talent. They know how to set expectations! Only 4 teams this season had better odds of winning a Superbowl than did the Cowboys. And last years 9-7 failures were even higher rated than this season.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
How many Pro Bowl selections did this team have in 07? I believe they set a modern era record for the most Pro Bowlers on one team. And this defense has just the last two weeks managed two shutouts in a row which has NEVER been done in Cowboys history. This team is almost as talented as the early 90's Cowboys were. The difference? Discipline and Coaching!

There is only ONE team that is picked every single season in the top 5 or 10 teams in the league who has NOT WON a playoff game and who has generally underachieved every single season. That's our Dallas Cowboys. Well, why would anyone pick them as a top 10 team after that moronic season last year?????? One reason and one reason only!!!! TALENT! EXPECTATIONS! Ok, that's two reasons. But you get the point. Vegas and the Pros that follow this sports as a means to make a living aren't stupid. They know how to evaluate talent. They know how to set expectations! Only 4 teams this season had better odds of winning a Superbowl than did the Cowboys. And last years 9-7 failures were even higher rated than this season.

This team is NOWHERE I repeat NOWHERE close to being as talented as the 92-95 Cowboys..those Cowboys teams would beat this edition of the Cowboys silly.

Sorry but how many pro bowls means nothing as far as true talent..Roy Williams was still making pro bowls as a SS when he had become such a liability that Dallas had to come up with ways to hide him in coverage.

You say Dallas has been picked EVERY single season as a top 5 or top 10 team...since when?

Since 1998 Dallas has had 4 ten plus win seasons and 4 losing seasons

In those play-off seasons they had the debacle to the Cardinals and the loss to the Giants...the other 3 play-off losses they were not the favorite...so ot sure where you think Dallas is always rated a top 5 or top 10 team

Yes AFTER the 13-3 season many pointed to them as a SB team and they failed to make the play-offs the next year( JUST LIKE GIANTS AND STEELERS THIS YEAR)...of course your going to point to Phillips and blame him, but you can point to injuries just as much just like the Giants and Steelers this year.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Like him or not as a HC his ability as a defensive Cord IMO is untouchable. He has proven time and time again he knows what he is doing as far as his 3-4 scheme and what to call.

You keep talking about this talented group..and yes Dallas has talent..you have to have it to be 11-5..but you keep acting like this team is stacked like the 90's Cowboys with top 3 starters at every position and I just disagree.





Wade Philips took over good teams three times:

Denver winning % his first season as HC: .563
Denver Winning % his last season as HC: .438
Two seasons.

Buffalo winning % his first season as HC: .625
Buffalo winning % his last season as HC: .500
Three seasons.

Dallas winning % his first season as HC: .813
Dallas winning % this season......... . 688
Three seasons.

Zero Superbowl wins. Zero SuperBowl appearances. Zero Conference titles. Zero playoff wins. Average finish for entire career is 2 games over .500.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/PhilWa0.htm

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Wade Philips took over good teams three times:

Denver winning % his first season as HC: .563
Denver Winning % his last season as HC: .438
Two seasons.

Buffalo winning % his first season as HC: .625
Buffalo winning % his last season as HC: .500
Three seasons.

Dallas winning % his first season as HC: .813
Dallas winning % this season......... . 688
Three seasons.

Zero Superbowl wins. Zero SuperBowl appearances. Zero Conference titles. Zero playoff wins. Average finish for entire career is 2 games over .500.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/PhilWa0.htm

Denver was 8-8 before he became HC and was a team in transition

He took over a Buffalo team that was 6-10 the year before..he turned that into 10-6 and 11-5..yep they went 8-8 his third year but lets see where they were after that

3-13, 8-8 and 6-10

So Buffalo was 23-41 the year before and the three years after him

with him they were 29-19..so how bad was he there?

[Txbroadcaster]

not sure how you got his average career is 2 games above .500 he is 81-54 as a HC which is a 60% win clip

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
This team is NOWHERE I repeat NOWHERE close to being as talented as the 92-95 Cowboys..those Cowboys teams would beat this edition of the Cowboys silly.





The 92-95 Cowboys had #1. Leadership at QB. #2. Coaching that insisted on results. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of difference between these teams.

92'... Offense ranked #4. Defense #1. won SB.
93'.... Offense ranked#4. Defense #10. Won SB.
95'....Offense ranked #5. Defense #9. Won SB.

07'... Offense ranked#3. Defense #9. Lost 1st round
08'... Offense ranked #13. Defense #8. Missed playoffs.
09'.... Offense ranked #2. Defense #9. ??

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The 92-95 Cowboys had #1. Leadership at QB. #2. Coaching that insisted on results. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of difference between these teams.

92'... Offense ranked #4. Defense #1. won SB.
93'.... Offense ranked#4. Defense #10. Won SB.
95'....Offense ranked #5. Defense #9. Won SB.

07'... Offense ranked#3. Defense #9. Lost 1st round
08'... Offense ranked #13. Defense #8. Missed playoffs.
09'.... Offense ranked #2. Defense #9. ??

Barry Switzer wasn't a better coach than Wade Phillips is.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The 92-95 Cowboys had #1. Leadership at QB. #2. Coaching that insisted on results. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of difference between these teams.

92'... Offense ranked #4. Defense #1. won SB.
93'.... Offense ranked#4. Defense #10. Won SB.
95'....Offense ranked #5. Defense #9. Won SB.

07'... Offense ranked#3. Defense #9. Lost 1st round
08'... Offense ranked #13. Defense #8. Missed playoffs.
09'.... Offense ranked #2. Defense #9. ??

U can give ranking all you want but TALENT wise the Cowboys of 92-95 would run rings around this Cowboys team..the depth they had at almost every position was superior to any team in the NFL since the 80's. Your crazy to think this edition of the Cowboys would even be close to that era

[Txbroadcaster]

Tell me what starters now you would take over any starter from the 92, 93,94 or 95 Cowboys?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
not sure how you got his average career is 2 games above .500 he is 81-54 as a HC which is a 60% win clip




27 games over .500 in a 10 year HC career. 2.7 games over .500 average. my mistake. That means 9-7 one season and 10-6 the next. I know you don't think outside of the box but take away the 13-3 great season to start in Dallas(thanks to Parcels) and you get 9 years of mediocrity. Once the Wade influence permeates a team they begin to underachieve badly. Only once has a team actually performed better in Wades second or third season as HC. And we are living it right now. Let's see how it turns out.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
27 games over .500 in a 10 year HC career. 2.7 games over .500 average. my mistake. That means 9-7 one season and 10-6 the next. I know you don't think outside of the box but take away the 13-3 great season to start in Dallas(thanks to Parcels) and you get 9 years of mediocrity. Once the Wade influence permeates a team they begin to underachieve badly. Only once has a team actually performed better in Wades second or third season as HC. And we are living it right now. Let's see how it turns out.

LOL thanks to Parcells..why thanks to Parcells? Cause he assembled what you call amazing top notch talent but could do nothing but two straight 9-7 seasons? ..So wait..Wade could go 13-3 with Parcells team, but Parcells could not?

And actually Buffalo had a better 2nd season under Wade than his first

Lets understand a couple of things about that 13-3 team

They were good, but not even close to being as 13-3 win good.

They had the fortuane of playing a pretty weak schedule and they took advantage of that. It is not like they beat a bunch of 10-12 win teams.

Just like IMO they were not as bad as a 9-7 last year, I dont think they were as good as 13-3 in 07

[Pawdaddy]

Come on, guys (and gals if you prefer), Jerry has kept some type of problem on this team, consistently, for several years that could cause any team to focus on something other than teamwork. Be it Jones "Don't call me PacMan," or Terrell "Call me Mister" Owens, or Johnson "Two Tear-drop Tank.......and some others that certainly did not figure in when you are trying to spell T-E-A-M. If you deny those guys did not create some drama around the newsroom and the locker room, your agenda is showing.

[crzyjournalist03]

I'll throw this out there...

Dallas has a BRUTAL road schedule next year. I could easily see them being better than this year and still falling to 10-6 or 9-7.

Look at it:

NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington, Green Bay, Minnesota, Houston, Indianapolis, Arizona

There's not a "gimme" win in there next year. I know it's hard to predict what teams will look like in a year, but every one of those teams looks to be trending up barring terrible injuries.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Tell me what starters now you would take over any starter from the 92, 93,94 or 95 Cowboys?


How can you compare starters who achieved the ultimate success to starters who haven't?????? The talent isn't that different. The results are hugely different.

92'. Offense.

Passing: 64%. 7.3YPA. 217YPG. 23 sacks.
Rushing: 132YPG. 4.2YPA. 31APG.

93' Offense.

Passing: 67%. 7.6YPA. 215YPG. 29 sacks.
Rushing: 135YPG. 4.4YPA. 31 APG.

09' Offense.

Passing: 63%. 8.2YPA. 267YPG. 34 sacks.
Rushing: 131 YPG. 4.8 YPA. 27 APG.

The ONLY difference between 92', 93', 95' and the last 4 seasons for Dallas is the end of the season results. THOSE teams got stronger at the end of the season. THIS team gets weaker. I put that on QB and COACHING. Where do you put it?

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Pawdaddy
Come on, guys (and gals if you prefer), Jerry has kept some type of problem on this team, consistently, for several years that could cause any team to focus on something other than teamwork. Be it Jones "Don't call me PacMan," or Terrell "Call me Mister" Owens, or Johnson "Two Tear-drop Tank.......and some others that certainly did not figure in when you are trying to spell T-E-A-M. If you deny those guys did not create some drama around the newsroom and the locker room, your agenda is showing.



And these guys are worst than "Gimme Coke and a Party" Irvin. "I'm a Diamond in a pile of Dog crap" Emmitt Smith or "Wanna buy a Kilo" Nat Newton???????? How about "What do voluntary mean" Hambrick? Or perhaps you prefer "I'm gonna die from drugs" Mark Tuinei or "Fornication was my drug" Dion Sanders? For good measure lets throw in "I'm gonna run you over" Goodrich and "I'm a druggie" Leon Lett. But don't forget about "Suspend Me for drugs" Clayton Holmes either. And these are ONLY the early 90's Cowboys with BIG problems. There were many, many little things that happened in that time frame. The difference in these two teams has been the on-field leadership and the off field coaching...............

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
How can you compare starters who achieved the ultimate success to starters who haven't?????? The talent isn't that different. The results are hugely different.

92'. Offense.

Passing: 64%. 7.3YPA. 217YPG. 23 sacks.
Rushing: 132YPG. 4.2YPA. 31APG.

93' Offense.

Passing: 67%. 7.6YPA. 215YPG. 29 sacks.
Rushing: 135YPG. 4.4YPA. 31 APG.

09' Offense.

Passing: 63%. 8.2YPA. 267YPG. 34 sacks.
Rushing: 131 YPG. 4.8 YPA. 27 APG.

The ONLY difference between 92', 93', 95' and the last 4 seasons for Dallas is the end of the season results. THOSE teams got stronger at the end of the season. THIS team gets weaker. I put that on QB and COACHING. Where do you put it?

You put all problems on Romo and Phillips

You keep giving stats..I want PLAYERs..would you take

Romo over Aikman?

Barber/Jones/Choice over Emmitt?

This O-Line over that O-Line?

Miles Austin over Irvin?

Come on tell me who you would take

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
And these guys are worst than "Gimme Coke and a Party" Irvin. "I'm a Diamond in a pile of Dog crap" Emmitt Smith or "Wanna buy a Kilo" Nat Newton???????? How about "What do voluntary mean" Hambrick? Or perhaps you prefer "I'm gonna die from drugs" Mark Tuinei or "Fornication was my drug" Dion Sanders? For good measure lets throw in "I'm gonna run you over" Goodrich and "I'm a druggie" Leon Lett. But don't forget about "Suspend Me for drugs" Clayton Holmes either. And these are ONLY the early 90's Cowboys with BIG problems. There were many, many little things that happened in that time frame. The difference in these two teams has been the on-field leadership and the off field coaching...............


the difference is players like Irvin had off field issues but was a great teammate..he seperated his off field problems from his performance

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
U can give ranking all you want but TALENT wise the Cowboys of 92-95 would run rings around this Cowboys team..the depth they had at almost every position was superior to any team in the NFL since the 80's. Your crazy to think this edition of the Cowboys would even be close to that era



And you base this on WHAT? Points? Yardage? Ranking? Record? Just because you SAY they were more talented doesn't make it so! This rushing attack is as good as that one was. This passing attack is just as good as that one was. So what's the difference? Attitude? Leadership? Game Plan? Execution? The Superbowl winning teams of the early 90's had only 4 more wins over those 3 regular seasons than this Cowboy team has had over the last 3 regular seasons. The only real difference in these teams is that the leadership of that team got better late in the year and in the playoffs and we all know what current leadership has done.....

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The only real difference in these teams is that the leadership of that team got better late in the year and in the playoffs and we all know what current leadership has done.....

The REAL difference had MORE talent..Aikman said it best on his radio show this week..all the leadership in the world does not mean much if the talent is not there..those team OUT TALENTED everyone but SF..those teams have talent that might be one of the top 3 EVER assembled as far as team talent

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You put all problems on Romo and Phillips

You keep giving stats..I want PLAYERs..would you take

Romo over Aikman?

Barber/Jones/Choice over Emmitt?

This O-Line over that O-Line?

Miles Austin over Irvin?

Come on tell me who you would take



That's a nonsense question!!! Aikman won 3 superbowls. If Romo goes on to win 3 superbowls then EVERYONE would take Romo over Aikman. Romo's stats dwarfs Aikmans numbers.
Emmitt won 3 superbowls. But the combination of Barber,Jones,Choice are outproducing what Emmitt produced.
And there's no question that Irvin/Harper/Novicek was a good triple threat but were they more of a threat than Owens/Austin/Witten???? That's debatable. And the numbers would back that up.

You are arguing that this team isn't as talented and I am arguing they simply underacheive terribly. you use numbers to prove Romo is good when I claim he isn't and then you discount the numbers when I use them to prove this team is as talented as that team. I think we both have a bad case of the flip flops.....

[Trashman]

I think wade stays even if he loses Saturday. Unless he chooses to leave on his own. Either way we will have a new coach after next season.:thinking:

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
The REAL difference had MORE talent..Aikman said it best on his radio show this week..all the leadership in the world does not mean much if the talent is not there..those team OUT TALENTED everyone but SF..those teams have talent that might be one of the top 3 EVER assembled as far as team talent




The only way this arguement holds water is if you claim the entire league was more talented because that team didn't put up any better statstics than this team does. The difference that I see was that IF that team needed 4 yards-Aikman, Emmitt or Irvin made sure they got 4 yards. When THAT team got in the redzone Aikman would get in someone's arse if they didn't score a TD. Although I also believe that team was more talented I don't think the talent gap was near as big as you think it was. I think the attitude gap between the two teams could be measured in miles though. And that starts with Wade and Tony. Aikman, Irvin, and Smith would not accept losing. Philips and Romo simply make excuses for it...........

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan

You are arguing that this team isn't as talented and I am arguing they simply underacheive terribly. you use numbers to prove Romo is good when I claim he isn't and then you discount the numbers when I use them to prove this team is as talented as that team. I think we both have a bad case of the flip flops.....

oh no..not discounting his numbers compared to his peers in today's NFL..I do if someone tries to say oh this team is as talented as the 90's Cowboys

again you keep saying how talented they are now I say they are NOT full of talent as people seem to make them( which I think is just a platform to blame coaching or Jones).

again take the positions and rank em

..rank the best players for the Cowboys..then tell me where the likes of Romo, Ratliff, Austin, Barber were drafted...they are ot underachieving but OVER ACHEVING alot of times because they play better than there pure physical talent rank them

[Farmersfan]

Based on a very quick survey I find that this 09' Dallas team has 11 first round draft picks on the rooster this season. The 92' Cowboys Superbowl team had 8 1st rounders on the team and a couple of them barely saw playing time. This isn't even including the Greg Ellis, Chris Canty, Terrell Owens and others that played here last year or the year before. If you base your measure of talent on draft order then this team is the more talented.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1994&round=round1

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Based on a very quick survey I find that this 09' Dallas team has 11 first round draft picks on the rooster this season. The 92' Cowboys Superbowl team had 8 1st rounders on the team and a couple of them barely saw playing time. This isn't even including the Greg Ellis, Chris Canty, Terrell Owens and others that played here last year or the year before. If you base your measure of talent on draft order then this team is the more talented.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1994&round=round1

I always go first 3 rounds as my barometer of a team and draft picks..simply because 90% of teams only get one 1st round draft pick so it is real hard to truly stock a team up with a ton of first round picks without poaching in FA or picking up retreads

and BTW..I always say the 92-95 Cowboys because most people will say the most talented team of that group was the one that did not even win the title and that was the 94 Cowboys.

92 Cowboys 14 1-3 starters out of 22
93 Cowboys..15 1-3 rds starting so 15 of 22 starters were first day picks

94 16 out of 22 are 1-3 round picks

95 17 out of 22 starters are 1-3 rounds

2009 12 out of 22 starters are 1-3 first round picks...some of "stars" of the team..Romo...Miles...Barber..Ratliff are 4th round ad below with of course we all know 2 who were usigned

and you dont even want to break down the value of how well the early round picks are playing comparartive.

fun debate today

[crzyjournalist03]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
Based on a very quick survey I find that this 09' Dallas team has 11 first round draft picks on the rooster this season. The 92' Cowboys Superbowl team had 8 1st rounders on the team and a couple of them barely saw playing time. This isn't even including the Greg Ellis, Chris Canty, Terrell Owens and others that played here last year or the year before. If you base your measure of talent on draft order then this team is the more talented.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1994&round=round1

because first rounders equate with success?

Give Jamarcus Russell the nod over Tom Brady then. He's a first-round talent.

[BEAST]

Its impossible to compare todays Cowboys to the Cowboys of the 90s'. Two words, Salary Cap. The old Cowboys had depth running out there ears. They would put in a new D line just about every series and rotate them the whole game. Cant do it today, not enough money to go around. Jerry can afford it, league just go tired of Dallas and SF winning every year. Thats where the biggest difference is. Starting 22 of today vs. the starting 22 of the 90s? It would probably be a good game, but, once you throw in the subs, the 90s' teams would wear them down and eventually out.

The league put the salary cap in place so teams like Dallas couldnt do what the New York Yankees do, which is "buy" championships. He with the most money, doesnt win all the time, but he wins most often. Therefore, the commish took money out of it and allowed every team to spend the same amount.




BEAST

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
because first rounders equate with success?

Give Jamarcus Russell the nod over Tom Brady then. He's a first-round talent.




You misunderstand crzy! I posted that information as a answer to TX who seemed to be claiming that the 92', 93', and 95' Cowboys were WAY more talented than this years team because of the "draft order" of the players. I believe "TALENT" is best determined by what a player is able to do against his peers and this year's team is putting up numbers equal to or better than the Superbowl winning teams. The difference is that THIS team has failed a lot when it plays in BIG games in December and in the playoffs. The reasons for this failure has been debated Ad nauseum on this forum as well as others but it is a FACT that they failed in the past. I personally believe this failure comes directly from the expectations set forth by the men who run the show. The OWNER (runs the whole show). The Coach (runs the preparation/discipline show) and the QB (runs the execution/on field show).

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
You misunderstand crzy! I posted that information as a answer to TX who seemed to be claiming that the 92', 93', and 95' Cowboys were WAY more talented than this years team because of the "draft order" of the players. I believe "TALENT" is best determined by what a player is able to do against his peers and this year's team is putting up numbers equal to or better than the Superbowl winning teams. The difference is that THIS team has failed a lot when it plays in BIG games in December and in the playoffs. The reasons for this failure has been debated Ad nauseum on this forum as well as others but it is a FACT that they failed in the past. I personally believe this failure comes directly from the expectations set forth by the men who run the show. The OWNER (runs the whole show). The Coach (runs the preparation/discipline show) and the QB (runs the execution/on field show).

Hold on just a second.....THIS team hasnt failed down the stretch. Finished the season with 3 straight over NO, WASH, & Philly. Ill give you WASH, but NO & Philly, plus two straight shutouts. Now, THIS team hasnt played a playoff game yet. We will know about that in a few more days. The LAST FEW Dallas team did fall off down the stretch, not THIS one.




BEAST

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by BEAST
Its impossible to compare todays Cowboys to the Cowboys of the 90s'. Two words, Salary Cap. The old Cowboys had depth running out there ears. They would put in a new D line just about every series and rotate them the whole game. Cant do it today, not enough money to go around. Jerry can afford it, league just go tired of Dallas and SF winning every year. Thats where the biggest difference is. Starting 22 of today vs. the starting 22 of the 90s? It would probably be a good game, but, once you throw in the subs, the 90s' teams would wear them down and eventually out.

The league put the salary cap in place so teams like Dallas couldnt do what the New York Yankees do, which is "buy" championships. He with the most money, doesnt win all the time, but he wins most often. Therefore, the commish took money out of it and allowed every team to spend the same amount.
BEAST



If I remember correctly, Dallas was in pretty good shape against the Salary Cap when it started in 94'. In fact they had money to sign Dion Sanders and a couple of others to help them win the 95' Superbowl. (should have won 94' superbowl too!)
And if I'm not wrong, That team competed against NON-salary cap teams just like this team competes against salary capped teams. It's all relavent!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
The OWNER (runs the whole show). The Coach (runs the preparation/discipline show) and the QB (runs the execution/on field show).

It is sad you have so much hate for Romo..has he played great in big games..not all the time..but he has very rarely been the reason they lost the big game, yet you just hoestly try to pin EVERY loss on Romo, then try to devalue Romo's role in EVERY win

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
I always go first 3 rounds as my barometer of a team and draft picks..simply because 90% of teams only get one 1st round draft pick so it is real hard to truly stock a team up with a ton of first round picks without poaching in FA or picking up retreads

and BTW..I always say the 92-95 Cowboys because most people will say the most talented team of that group was the one that did not even win the title and that was the 94 Cowboys.

92 Cowboys 14 1-3 starters out of 22
93 Cowboys..15 1-3 rds starting so 15 of 22 starters were first day picks

94 16 out of 22 are 1-3 round picks

95 17 out of 22 starters are 1-3 rounds

2009 12 out of 22 starters are 1-3 first round picks...some of "stars" of the team..Romo...Miles...Barber..Ratliff are 4th round ad below with of course we all know 2 who were usigned

and you dont even want to break down the value of how well the early round picks are playing comparartive.

fun debate today



I see your point TX! Those Superbowl teams had 3 or 4 extra players on their roster that were drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round! So that explains why that team won 3 out of 4 Superbowls and this team can't win a playoff game......................!!!!! ;)

And IF you are claiming Romo, Barber and Ratliff are not as talented as 2nd and 3rd rounders then you make my point when I say Dallas should STILL be looking for a franchise QB. Either Romo is qualified to be the QB or he isn't. His draft position isn't important at all.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I see your point TX! Those Superbowl teams had 3 or 4 extra players on their roster that were drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round! So that explains why that team won 3 out of 4 Superbowls and this team can't win a playoff game......................!!!!! ;)

And IF you are claiming Romo, Barber and Ratliff are not as talented as 2nd and 3rd rounders then you make my point when I say Dallas should STILL be looking for a franchise QB. Either Romo is qualified to be the QB or he isn't. His draft position isn't important at all.

not saying Romo is not as talented..I am saying his coaching staff you hate so much deserves credit for shaping him into a top 5 QB

[BEAST]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
If I remember correctly, Dallas was in pretty good shape against the Salary Cap when it started in 94'. In fact they had money to sign Dion Sanders and a couple of others to help them win the 95' Superbowl. (should have won 94' superbowl too!)
And if I'm not wrong, That team competed against NON-salary cap teams just like this team competes against salary capped teams. It's all relavent!

Agreed they did compete against non capped teams. Thats not what I was getting at, I was saying the old Boys would probably beat the new Boys due to a much better bench. That bench was because you could go buy players.




BEAST

[GrTigers6]

Of course if they were to play today the old team would get drove because they are well... OLD. :D :D

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
It is sad you have so much hate for Romo..has he played great in big games..not all the time..but he has very rarely been the reason they lost the big game, yet you just hoestly try to pin EVERY loss on Romo, then try to devalue Romo's role in EVERY win


I don't hate Romo at all! I argue my opinion of Romo as a franchise QB for the Dallas Cowboys. You minimize the importance of the QB in a Pro offense and I feel the QB is the single most important player on the team. And I don't devalue Romo's role in the wins unless the offense's performance in those wins is not up to par. (and much of the time with this offense it isn't). I have repeatedly said the entire offense is at fault. but the QB is 75% responsible. Any QB! Not just Romo!

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by Farmersfan
I don't hate Romo at all! I argue my opinion of Romo as a franchise QB for the Dallas Cowboys. You minimize the importance of the QB in a Pro offense and I feel the QB is the single most important player on the team. And I don't devalue Romo's role in the wins unless the offense's performance in those wins is not up to par. (and much of the time with this offense it isn't). I have repeatedly said the entire offense is at fault. but the QB is 75% responsible. Any QB! Not just Romo!

How do I minimize the QB? If a QB throws for 300 yards and three TDs with no INTs in a loss, I will not put alot of blame on him sorry

If a QB takes his team 99 yards to tie a game and the D gives that tie right back up on the very next drive and in the same game the RUN game cannot score 4 times from the one I am not going to put alot of blame on that QB

A QB CAN win or lose a game..but does not mean they win or lose EVERY game. I thought the Eagle game sunday was more what the Dallas D and run game did more than Romo..not that he did not have a good day, he did, but IMO in that game the Defese and the o-line and running game was a bigger factor