ESPN one sided??

[NateDawg39]

Correct me if I am wrong but does anybody else feel like ESPN has a tendency to be one sided on a lot of topics?
Currently the Texas Tech situation? Seeing as how the facts are NOT all in yet they take the side of James and the chancellor. I know it is their job to report but its just unfortunate to see someone get blamed for things without a complete and truthful story.

Remember these are some of the fellows who claimed before the 05 Rose Bowl that USC was the greatest teams all time...just thought I would throw that in there :p

[bandera7]

they definitely have a tendency to be one sided. and now one of their own is in an issue and they are definitely siding with him, quite blindly.

[Who-dun-it!!?]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

[LE Dad]

ESPN is just stirring the pot. Like I posted earlier, I always thought highly of Craig James but after this I will make a point not to watch a broadcast with him on it. ESPN needs to report the facts and leave the commentary to others. Just the appearance of bias could have negative impact on their image.

[GrTigers6]

Originally posted by bandera7
they definitely have a tendency to be one sided. and now one of their own is in an issue and they are definitely siding with him, quite blindly. Yeah toward any team from the northeast, NY, NE, Boston, for example

[3afan]

thats dumb --- C.James did what 98% of parents would do

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by 3afan
thats dumb --- C.James did what 98% of parents would do Actually, about 98% of parents DON'T do anything. Which is why coaches have pushed the limit and returned to a more subtle manner. Break em down and build em back up is in danger of going out the window and only seen in the military if all this crap keeps getting blown up nationwide. I promise you, other coaches have used "eccentric" methods. However, those of you who played know what I'm talking about, you took pride in doing your punishment and getting back in good graces. This appears to be an ego fight, and one where the mature adult could have handled it better. ESPECIALLY concerning a concussion with BIG push for it to be identified earlier and taken much more seriously.

[N4SIR]

Originally posted by NateDawg39
Correct me if I am wrong but does anybody else feel like ESPN has a tendency to be one sided on a lot of topics?
Currently the Texas Tech situation? Seeing as how the facts are NOT all in yet they take the side of James and the chancellor. I know it is their job to report but its just unfortunate to see someone get blamed for things without a complete and truthful story.

Remember these are some of the fellows who claimed before the 05 Rose Bowl that USC was the greatest teams all time...just thought I would throw that in there :p The way you have been posting one would think that you have ALL the facts. All of your postings take the side of Leach. What's the difference?

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by 3afan
thats dumb --- C.James did what 98% of parents would do

You sure are on the James's side on this...I guess it all depends on the parent..I am still trying to figure out what exactly about this was so damn terrible that he needed to be fired.

Seems to me James only said something when it appeared Leach would not sign the release of transfer

[N4SIR]

Why wouldn't Leach have signed the release to transfer? Was he just being an butt head and going to show those James's he had the power?

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by N4SIR
The way you have been posting one would think that you have ALL the facts. All of your postings take the side of Leach. What's the difference? Well If you have actually read a few of my posts all the way you would have noted I STATED I am not for or against Leach just responding to what I have read thus far...

[Who-dun-it!!?]

I'll admit I'm biased. I'm a big fan of Mike Leach. I just don't think I've seen anything that points to anything other than this kid is a baby. Probably because I'm so biased on this matter. But still trying to see the big picture. Of corse if Leach endangered the kid or anybody else, can him, but from what has been released so far, it seems to be rediculous and frivolous.




p.s. I know I can't spell.

[bandera7]

My parents would have told me to suck it up and earn my spot back into the good graces of the coach. But then again, thats just normalcy speaking....

If you are into sports, you better be ready to work for it. By everything I have read, James is not willing to. Again, thats just from what I have read, and it could be false, but as of now, everything points to James not being willing to work for anything.

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by bandera7
My parents would have told me to suck it up and earn my spot back into the good graces of the coach. But then again, thats just normalcy speaking....

If you are into sports, you better be ready to work for it. By everything I have read, James is not willing to. Again, thats just from what I have read, and it could be false, but as of now, everything points to James not being willing to work for anything. I mean its especially bad when his receivers coach comes out and says he is just trying to get back at the coaches

[3afan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You sure are on the James's side on this...I guess it all depends on the parent..I am still trying to figure out what exactly about this was so damn terrible that he needed to be fired.

Seems to me James only said something when it appeared Leach would not sign the release of transfer

I believe this incident, moreso Leach's refusal to work with the administration to resolve it, was just the straw that broke the camels back

[bandera7]

Originally posted by NateDawg39
I mean its especially bad when his receivers coach comes out and says he is just trying to get back at the coaches
we seem to be of like minds on this whole issue. And my dad actually got to know Leach about 4 or 5 weeks ago, and loved him. The father of Aggies. And he loves Mike Leach.

[N4SIR]

Originally posted by bandera7
My parents would have told me to suck it up and earn my spot back into the good graces of the coach. But then again, thats just normalcy speaking....

If you are into sports, you better be ready to work for it. By everything I have read, James is not willing to. Again, thats just from what I have read, and it could be false, but as of now, everything points to James not being willing to work for anything. I truly doubt your parents would have told you to suck it up if you had a concusion. Are you a parent? If the team doctor tells you that your son/daughter has a concusion are you going to tell them to "suck it up" and get back out there?

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by 3afan
I believe this incident, moreso Leach's refusal to work with the administration to resolve it, was just the straw that broke the camels back

May I ask why you believe it?

I dont know if it is true or not..what I dont like about it is how quick they acted on UNTIL MORE COMES OUT basically one kid's story. Not much of an investigation and not really a chance for the guy to defend himself

[Gobbla2001]

I can tell you this... Leach would not have been fired today had it not been for the $$$ due to him had he made it to tomorrow...

[bandera7]

Originally posted by N4SIR
I truly doubt your parents would have told you to suck it up if you had a concusion. Are you a parent? If the team doctor tells you that your son/daughter has a concusion are you going to tell them to "suck it up" and get back out there?

I have had a concussion. But being put in a storage room as a result of the concussion, regardless of the circumstances, is not something my parents would have been enraged about. They would be enraged had a coach made me practice with a concussion. Anything else wouldnt be a huge deal in my parents mind.

[N4SIR]

I agree, but it appears to have been just a matter of time before they fired him. The money and his ego just sped things up.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You sure are on the James's side on this...I guess it all depends on the parent..I am still trying to figure out what exactly about this was so damn terrible that he needed to be fired.

Seems to me James only said something when it appeared Leach would not sign the release of transfer You nailed it. What did Leach do?? I promise you with some of the stuff that I was subjected to during my day a shed would be welcome punishment, in fact I would probably volunteer for that punishment. I am not a Tech fan, not a Leach supporter, and after this not a Craig James fan. I am a huge fan of competitive Texas sports programs from PeeWee to Pros and what happened in Lubbock undermines this concept greatly.

[NateDawg39]

http://dennis-dodd.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/19238949


Here are some E-mails sent in about the situation

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Originally posted by LE Dad
You nailed it. What did Leach do?? I promise you with some of the stuff that I was subjected to during my day a shed would be welcome punishment, in fact I would probably volunteer for that punishment. I am not a Tech fan, not a Leach supporter, and after this not a Craig James fan. I am a huge fan of competitive Texas sports programs from PeeWee to Pros and what happened in Lubbock undermines this concept greatly.

I agree. But I really don't think this shed thing was punishment at all. The weather has been bad and that shed was probably a welcome site to anybody who wanted a quick break from the ice and snow.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by N4SIR
but it appears to have been just a matter of time before they fired him. The money and his ego just sped things up.

BINGO!

I agree... fact is they shouldn't have given him a new contract... they were tired of his ego last year, they didn't want to give him money last year, but they did because they thought they needed him and program-wise it made sense...

so you give him the new contract and it doesn't translate to wins this year... now you REALLY want to get rid of him without having to pay him...

like I just said... "now you REALLY WANT TO GET RID OF HIM WITHOUT PAYING HIM"

This story is just interesting to me...

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
I agree. But I really don't think this shed thing was punishment at all. The weather has been bad and that shed was probably a welcome site to anybody who wanted a quick break from the ice and snow. Maybe if coach let him have his X-Box while in the shed, he would not have complained :D

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Who-dun-it!!?
I agree. But I really don't think this shed thing was punishment at all. The weather has been bad and that shed was probably a welcome site to anybody who wanted a quick break from the ice and snow. I used punishment because that is the way the James family is trying to potray it. Leach is saying it was to help the kid with his headache.

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Originally posted by LE Dad
I used punishment because that is the way the James family is trying to potray it. Leach is saying it was to help the kid with his headache.

Yea I knew what you ment. Sorry Didn't mean to sound that way. I don't think Leach would ever try to hurt or endanger a player. I'm sure he would push them to there limits and beyond to get the most out of them. That's what coaches do.

[bandera7]

if you read the letters harrell and ryder (sp?) sent, that is exactly the way they portray it. A coach who accepts nothing but your best, but sitll looks out for you.

[Gobbla2001]

just saw the video taken by Adam James with his phone from the electrical closet thingie...

must not have service in there, or he would have called to have someone come and get him out?

or maybe they blind-folded him while dragging him into confinement so he didn't know where to tell people to go?

Everyone... grab your cell-phone... go get into a closet and shut the door... take a flashlight with you and shoot video of you inside of this closet...

in a month, show someone the video and tell them your boss locked you in there...

[Who-dun-it!!?]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
just saw the video taken by Adam James with his phone from the electrical closet thingie...

must not have service in there, or he would have called to have someone come and get him out?

or maybe they blind-folded him while dragging him into confinement so he didn't know where to tell people to go?

Everyone... grab your cell-phone... go get into a closet and shut the door... take a flashlight with you and shoot video of you inside of this closet...

in a month, show someone the video and tell them your boss locked you in there...

My thoughts exactly!:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Damn it I'm still in the dark ages! My phone doesn't take video or pictures!!! What should I do??!!

[jrhernandez7]

ok, so the kid had a conncussion. ok, well the best thing to do for a concussion is to rest. and try to stay away from bright light like the sun as it can cause additional head aches. so team is practicing, out in the sun i imagine. leach tells him to go work out on a bike in a equitment shed, wich is out of the light., wich from the phone video i seen is not that small at all............................................... .................................................. ......ok is that realy that far fetched, no in my opinion, but leave it to espn and texas tech to jump the gun on the story. leach is a smart man he will take them to court and have a great chance of winning. great news for the big 12, because unless they keep that SYSTEM, you can say bye bye to Tech be relivant in the big 12. Tech will be begging him back in 2yrs, leach spoiled them with season after season of great, exciting football.

[navscanmaster]

Is it just me or are the Celina posters staying uncharacteristically quiet on this one?:D

[Additup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqvajnhZDU

Why is he wispering about "turning the lights on real quick I gotta get this?" and who is he wispering to ??

Seems pretty lucid for a guy suffering from a concussion...then again why would he bring his cell phone with him to football practice?

This whole thing is gonna get dumber by the day isn't it?

I'll keep listening to TheTicket.

[trojandad]

i'll bet that sophomore defensive tackle that is happy leach is gone (espn is quoting) has a REAL fat little girlfriend.......


:hand: :hand: :hand:

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Additup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZqvajnhZDU

Why is he wispering about "turning the lights on real quick I gotta get this?" and who is he wispering to ??



talking to those who will be viewing the video?

that'd be my guess, which would make sense for someone trying to capture video evidence of something...

doesn't really sway my opinion of the incident any...

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
talking to those who will be viewing the video?

that'd be my guess, which would make sense for someone trying to capture video evidence of something...

doesn't really sway my opinion of the incident any... and your opinion is that Mike Leach is in the right and Adam and Craig are wrong ok..I just decided for you :D

[ssgmp5150]

My thoughts exactly!!!!!



Originally posted by navscanmaster
Is it just me or are the Celina posters staying uncharacteristically quiet on this one?:D

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by N4SIR
Why wouldn't Leach have signed the release to transfer? Was he just being an butt head and going to show those James's he had the power?
This isn't the first time a HC has not signed a release to transfer. I know a few years ago there was a player wanting to transfer from one of the 3 Big XII Texas schools and it may very well have been Tech. The transfer would be signed but with the stipulation that the transfer could only be to a non-Texas school. But I'm sure that Leach was just being a butthead. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Additup


This whole thing is gonna get dumber by the day isn't it?

Yeah, pretty much! :D :doh:

[Ranger Mom]

I can't help but wonder if that James kid had any inkling how this was going to snowball and how he would end up being scorned and the butt of so many jokes??

He probably thought he had the sympathy vote going for him and it seemed to have blown up in his face!

My opinion, based on everything I have read is this: I don't for one second believe that Leach was overly concerned with Adam James' health, I think he put him in the shed, "because he could." It wasn't meant to harm him but to demean him...teach him a lesson maybe.

I also don't think that the James kid was hurt in the least by this incident, just probably embarrassed and went crying to his mommy and daddy!!

I think the powers that be at Tech wanted a good reason to get rid of Leach, so they jumped on this.

In the end...nobody wins.

[3afan]

the James kid scorned?

I bet more people are applauding him ... someone tell me what he did wrong? the ONLY place a coach should send a kid who is hurt is to the trainer, no where else

[ssgmp5150]

I strongly question whether Adam was even "hurt". A concussion??? It is not like he had an "obvious" injury to the naked eye. It was a concussion. It is pretty much his word/symtopms, all of which can easily be faked! So, when a kid exhibits signs of a concussion, it is kind of hard to look for any "obvious" signs of injury other than to simply take the kids word for it. He knew this would get him out of practice and I think Coach Leach simply tried to make a point with this kid. He was just disciplined two days earlier I believe, and so the kid had the, "I'll show you attitude!" He suddenly got a "concussion"???? The kid is milking it and Coach Leach called him on it!

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by ssgmp5150
He suddenly got a "concussion"???? The kid is milking it and Coach Leach called him on it!
Wow, you must have some mystical power!:eek:

The team doctor diagnosed Adam James with a concussion, but you know, sitting where ever you are, that the kid was faking it.:thinking:

I tell ya what, PM me the winning numbers for tomorrow nights Mega Millions, and I'll split the Jackpot with you.:D

[nobogey72]

Originally posted by ssgmp5150
I strongly question whether Adam was even "hurt". A concussion??? It is not like he had an "obvious" injury to the naked eye. It was a concussion. It is pretty much his word/symtopms, all of which can easily be faked! So, when a kid exhibits signs of a concussion, it is kind of hard to look for any "obvious" signs of injury other than to simply take the kids word for it. He knew this would get him out of practice and I think Coach Leach simply tried to make a point with this kid. He was just disciplined two days earlier I believe, and so the kid had the, "I'll show you attitude!" He suddenly got a "concussion"???? The kid is milking it and Coach Leach called him on it!

A question I've had is this: During the roughly month of practice between their last regular season game and Dec. 17 or whenever this happened, I may be wrong but I doubt there is a lot of full contact. I'm just wondering how a WR could get a concussion during that period. Not saying he didn't have one, but just saying.......

[skins4life]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
This isn't the first time a HC has not signed a release to transfer. I know a few years ago there was a player wanting to transfer from one of the 3 Big XII Texas schools and it may very well have been Tech. The transfer would be signed but with the stipulation that the transfer could only be to a non-Texas school. But I'm sure that Leach was just being a butthead. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You are right. His name is Shaud (sp) Williams and he was a 3 year starter at Andrews 97-99. He got the full ride to Tech, stayed 2 years, wasn't getting the playing time and asked for the release. He got it and transfered to Alabama. Man that young man was like lightning. Up the middle or around the end, he was gone.

[Pick6]

Originally posted by Phantom Stang
Wow, you must have some mystical power!:eek:

The team doctor diagnosed Adam James with a concussion, but you know, sitting where ever you are, that the kid was faking it.:thinking:

I tell ya what, PM me the winning numbers for tomorrow nights Mega Millions, and I'll split the Jackpot with you.:D

He's from Farmersville, they can't beat Celina so they will take their shots other ways.

[ssgmp5150]

My thoughts exactly!!!!


Originally posted by nobogey72
A question I've had is this: During the roughly month of practice between their last regular season game and Dec. 17 or whenever this happened, I may be wrong but I doubt there is a lot of full contact. I'm just wondering how a WR could get a concussion during that period. Not saying he didn't have one, but just saying.......

[ssgmp5150]

Speaking of Celina...C'mon guys sound off on what kind of player Adam was at Celina. You guys can shed more light on his character than anyone on these boards. By the way...Celina one and done this year! lol.... :D


Originally posted by Pick6
He's from Farmersville, they can't beat Celina so they will take their shots other ways.

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by nobogey72
A question I've had is this: During the roughly month of practice between their last regular season game and Dec. 17 or whenever this happened, I may be wrong but I doubt there is a lot of full contact. I'm just wondering how a WR could get a concussion during that period. Not saying he didn't have one, but just saying.......

Maybe he was carrying some boxes down some stairs?

LINK (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi27-2009dec27,0,7986.story)

[kepdawg]

Originally posted by ssgmp5150
Speaking of Celina...C'mon guys sound off on what kind of player Adam was at Celina. You guys can shed more light on his character than anyone on these boards. By the way...Celina one and done this year! lol.... :D

As I said earlier, read the threads. Insight has been provided from multiple people from Celina.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by 3afan
the ONLY place a coach should send a kid who is hurt is to the trainer, no where else

all of the information I have read said he was diagnosed with the mild concussion on the 17th after the injury happened on the 16th... on the 17th and 19th he was ordered to stay in these dark "spaces"...

SOOO... who diagnosed him with the concussion? the back-up quarterback? defensive-line coach? water-boy?

Obviously he received medical attention from someone (trainer, team doctor, someone with the knowledge to diagnose a player with a concussion) and was ordered not to practice...

The treatment after that? I can't see anything right now that shows James was put into a situation by Mike Leach and staff that would negatively impact his health, but I'm not doctor/nurse/whatever... none of us are...

My problem with this whole situation is that everyone is discussing this issue as if they KNOW one thing or the other happened...

We know very little in respect to how much everyone "thinks" they know...

He suffered a mild concussion... he was diagnosed with a mild concussion... he was sent to a dark space...

everything outside of that (being LOCKED up etc...) has been charged and refuted... these are not yet proven facts as far as I've read...

sure, we can discuss what we think may have happened, how the James claims are fishy or how Leach had it coming and put this kid in danger, but we don't know enough to say for certain...

Though I have sided with Leach in this based on what I know, it is not because I believe that Craig James is pushing his weight around... I'm siding with Leach because stuff that has not been proven has left a very negative image of a man who relies in part on his image to secure employment in his profession...

[3afan]

the Fox radio guys said Leach is "radioactive" as a new hire until he clears his name

it was also said this was a bad move by Leach because now players with concussions may not even divulge that they are loopy

tough situation

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by 3afan
the Fox radio guys said Leach is "radioactive" as a new hire until he clears his name

it was also said this was a bad move by Leach because now players with concussions may not even divulge that they are loopy

tough situation

As I've said before... concussions do not crawl into bed with you at night... coaches and trainers will notice a player is loopy post-hit...

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by 3afan
the Fox radio guys said Leach is "radioactive" as a new hire until he clears his name

it was also said this was a bad move by Leach because now players with concussions may not even divulge that they are loopy

tough situation


You keep acting like LEach did not allow the kid to get medical help.

[OldBison75]

You people are the most hypocritical people I have ever heard. You love your former coach and don't think he can do any wrong. That's great, but at least look at the entire situation before you attack everybody else.

I said on another post that there were some things we can't argue with and these are the deciding factors in my opinion:

Adam James was diagnosed with a mild concussion by the team doctors--people that work with the athletic program every day--not a sponge with a medical degree that his father paid off.

Mike Leach directed the training staff to take him to a equipment building (the infamous shed) and put him inside in the dark with the lights out. He was in a closed building with the lights out with, according to Leach's attorney, three of the training staff outside with orders to monitor and check on the boy every 13-15 minutes.

The young man stayed in the building like directed and followed his coaches orders.

A couple of days later, the young man is placed in another dark room under the same monitoring according to the attorney. The attorney shows us that that room is a media room for the coaches interviews after games. James released a video on you tube that shows a different room, off of the media room. Who knows who is telling the truth.

The attorney says that an exercise bike was placed in the room to allow James to get in conditioning exercises.

Medical personnel have said that the actions caused no further harm to the young man. However, medical personnel have also said that the handling of the young man was unorthodox. According to medical journals posted all over the internet, close monitoring of concussion patients is recommended and they do not condone any contact or strenous activity. Is riding an exercise bike strenous? It is to me, but I'm old and out of shape.

The university administration was made aware that there was a complaint and after the complaint they directed a letter to Leach asking him to follow somw simple guidelines, including no retaliation against James while they investigated. They required his signature on the letter to prove he had received the memo and he refused to sign the letter. This sounds like he was refusing to comply with a direct order from his boss and further that he was saying he would not guarantee he would not retaliate against James.

As a result of that insubordination, he was suspended from his coaching duties while the investigation continued.

After the suspension, Leach and his attorney then filed an injunction and took his boss to court. Leach also allowed his attorney to take a camera crew onto Texas Tech athletic property to film the sites and defend him--remember, this was while under suspension and without the approval of university administration. According to what I have seen in the real world, once you are suspended from you job, you have no right to authorize people to enter onto your employer's property.

This firing has nothing to do with Adam James and the treatment he got from Leach being the reason he was fired. It has everything to do with insubordination and his refusal to use the proper channels to defend himself. Every employer has a grievance procedure that should be followed and he totally ignored it.

[3afan]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
You keep acting like LEach did not allow the kid to get medical help.

not at all - Leach should have let the trainers/medical staff handle an injured player ... he should be out of the loop until the kid is cleared to play/practice

[3afan]

Originally posted by OldBison75
You people are the most hypocritical people I have ever heard. You love your former coach and don't think he can do any wrong. That's great, but at least look at the entire situation before you attack everybody else.

I said on another post that there were some things we can't argue with and these are the deciding factors in my opinion:

Adam James was diagnosed with a mild concussion by the team doctors--people that work with the athletic program every day--not a sponge with a medical degree that his father paid off.

Mike Leach directed the training staff to take him to a equipment building (the infamous shed) and put him inside in the dark with the lights out. He was in a closed building with the lights out with, according to Leach's attorney, three of the training staff outside with orders to monitor and check on the boy every 13-15 minutes.

The young man stayed in the building like directed and followed his coaches orders.

A couple of days later, the young man is placed in another dark room under the same monitoring according to the attorney. The attorney shows us that that room is a media room for the coaches interviews after games. James released a video on you tube that shows a different room, off of the media room. Who knows who is telling the truth.

The attorney says that an exercise bike was placed in the room to allow James to get in conditioning exercises.

Medical personnel have said that the actions caused no further harm to the young man. However, medical personnel have also said that the handling of the young man was unorthodox. According to medical journals posted all over the internet, close monitoring of concussion patients is recommended and they do not condone any contact or strenous activity. Is riding an exercise bike strenous? It is to me, but I'm old and out of shape.

The university administration was made aware that there was a complaint and after the complaint they directed a letter to Leach asking him to follow somw simple guidelines, including no retaliation against James while they investigated. They required his signature on the letter to prove he had received the memo and he refused to sign the letter. This sounds like he was refusing to comply with a direct order from his boss and further that he was saying he would not guarantee he would not retaliate against James.

As a result of that insubordination, he was suspended from his coaching duties while the investigation continued.

After the suspension, Leach and his attorney then filed an injunction and took his boss to court. Leach also allowed his attorney to take a camera crew onto Texas Tech athletic property to film the sites and defend him--remember, this was while under suspension and without the approval of university administration. According to what I have seen in the real world, once you are suspended from you job, you have no right to authorize people to enter onto your employer's property.

This firing has nothing to do with Adam James and the treatment he got from Leach being the reason he was fired. It has everything to do with insubordination and his refusal to use the proper channels to defend himself. Every employer has a grievance procedure that should be followed and he totally ignored it.


yes! :clap: very well stated!

[Snydertigersrul]

Originally posted by 3afan
yes! :clap: very well stated!

Remember, Craig James was a member of the SMU recruiting class that led to the NCAA death penalty.

[ziggy29]

Regardless of the truth, I find it horribly inappropriate for Craig James to be commenting on this situation on ESPN. He is employed by them as a college football analyst, which is a form of sports journalism that has some expectation of objectivity when reporting on issues relating to college football.

For the sake of his professionalism and journalistic integrity, the elder James should have "recused" himself from commenting on ESPN where he serves as a journalist because there's no realistic way he can be expected to report on this objectively.

[OldBison75]

So, even if James was part of the SMU death penalty fiasco, what does that have to do with whether this firing was justified?

Bill Clinton was a proven cheater with an employee and even proven to have lied to the investigating committee--but he was not impeached because what he did reflected more on his personal life that on the effect of his actions on the country. Leach's actions reflected on the University he represented and as a result, he was fired. Two different situations-but many things are comparable. At least Clinton cooperated, even though he lied.

[OldBison75]

Ziggy, you are 100% correct. ESPN and the James family not team together to continue this discussion. James and his family have give a statement and it is time to shut up.

If Espn wants to further cover the story, they need to leave Craig James out of the commentary and search out fact and other information and witnesses that have valid input.

[STANG RED]

I dont really know what to believe in this whole mess, and I'm sure many of you feel the same way.
The only thing I know for a fact is: All parties concerned have handled this mess about as poorly as it possibly could have been. As a result, everybody will lose. Some will just lose more than others. Bet they all wish they had a do over or two about now.

[3afan]

Originally posted by Snydertigersrul
Remember, Craig James was a member of the SMU recruiting class that led to the NCAA death penalty.

so? thats irrellevant to this

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by 3afan
so? thats irrellevant to this Not in all its entirety. People are remembering the fact he was a part of it and it is possible that it could have a negative effect on Adam James. I doubt he has a football career after this incident because the fact he is not as talented as he could be, and scouts and coaches will look at him and say "no way not with his dad hanging around".

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by 3afan
so? thats irrellevant to this That depends on if James was involved in improper practices in the past. It goes toward his credibility.

[3afan]

good lord you guys are reaching ...

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by 3afan
good lord you guys are reaching ... always reach for the sky :D

[OldBison75]

I think everybody, maybe with the exception of the James family, already believed that Adam James really did not have a "future football career" even before this happened. He is a third string receiver on a mid-level college team that has a reputation among coaches that he dosen't work hard. That don't sound very promising to me. Yeah, he might be able to get more playing time somewhere else like SMU or a Division II school, but he is not a future major college star.

This situation therefore does not really change anything for him except he is now the obvious target for thousands of disgruntled fans. He will now get his transfer signed, got to SMU or somewhere else, play out his final two years of eligibility and disappear from the face of the earth. May be become a coach somewhere and be ragged on by 50% of his teams fans for not playing thier son or stupid calls.

God I love how things seem to come around in the long run!!!!!!

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by OldBison75
I think everybody, maybe with the exception of the James family, already believed that Adam James really did not have a "future football career" even before this happened. He is a third string receiver on a mid-level college team that has a reputation among coaches that he dosen't work hard. That don't sound very promising to me. Yeah, he might be able to get more playing time somewhere else like SMU or a Division II school, but he is not a future major college star.

This situation therefore does not really change anything for him except he is now the obvious target for thousands of disgruntled fans. He will now get his transfer signed, got to SMU or somewhere else, play out his final two years of eligibility and disappear from the face of the earth. May be become a coach somewhere and be ragged on by 50% of his teams fans for not playing thier son or stupid calls.

God I love how things seem to come around in the long run!!!!!!
With his work ethic I doubt he would have the ability to coach at any level. I know the Wise County Messenger had stats of how much time the coaches spend in the classroom, football field and office. It was around 70-80 hours a week.

[OldBison75]

I understand, but I also know some coaches that are more than happy to live with the Jr. High head coach title and be an Assistant at a high school program. Plus, it dosen't take much effort be a low level assistant on a low level team -- somebody will hire him as an assistant and he will slug his way through a carreer if that is what he chooses. My guess is he will just fade awy into the world and we won't ever hear from him again after a few months.

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by OldBison75
I understand, but I also know some coaches that are more than happy to live with the Jr. High head coach title and be an Assistant at a high school program. Plus, it dosen't take much effort be a low level assistant on a low level team -- somebody will hire him as an assistant and he will slug his way through a carreer if that is what he chooses. My guess is he will just fade awy into the world and we won't ever hear from him again after a few months. Honestly, I would like to see him mature and grow into his shoes and do something with his life. But it is up to him.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by 3afan
good lord you guys are reaching ...

I agree... but both sides have reached pretty far... call it both ways...

the facts we know have grow branches of their own and are now being considered fact... it's sad... you'd think Leach beat the kid over the head with a bat and thrown him in a pool of paranas...

I listened to talk radio today and was absolutely pissed at how many lies and/or misrepresentations of the truth were passed on and on by the hosts of the show and the callers as if it were solid, proven fact...

this story has gotten disgusting real quick...

[Pick6]

Originally posted by OldBison75
Plus, it dosen't take much effort be a low level assistant on a low level team --

Apparently 70-80hrs a week according to NateDawg39 :D

[JJWalker]

The rumor is circulating, apparently from one of the players, that the electrical closet is off of the media room. So Adam just opened the closet door and stepped inside the closet, so that it looked like he was put in there instead of the conference room.

Of course it is just a rumor, but Tech really should learn to lock the doors!

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by 3afan
so? thats irrellevant to this

It just proves the apple DOESN'T fall to far from the tree.

[3afan]

it doesn't prove anything

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by JJWalker
The rumor is circulating, apparently from one of the players, that the electrical closet is off of the media room. So Adam just opened the closet door and stepped inside the closet, so that it looked like he was put in there instead of the conference room.

Of course it is just a rumor, but Tech really should learn to lock the doors!

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194

Sounds like the head trainer supports the "rumor".

[Rustler]

Originally posted by LE Dad
ESPN is just stirring the pot. Like I posted earlier, I always thought highly of Craig James but after this I will make a point not to watch a broadcast with him on it. ESPN needs to report the facts and leave the commentary to others. Just the appearance of bias could have negative impact on their image. :thinking: Thought highly of him for what......Taking money at SMU? Exceptional jounalism? :thinking:

[3afan]

interesting .... but, why Leach chose not to take the "out" he had is a mystery

[Rustler]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194

Sounds like the head trainer supports the "rumor".
supports what "rumor"?

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Rustler
supports what "rumor"?
Okay, maybe not supports the rumor that that's where the video was taken, but that there is an electrical closet in the media room.

[Rustler]

Originally posted by 3afan
interesting .... but, why Leach chose not to take the "out" he had is a mystery
Take which out? Admit u were wrong....Apologies for something you didn't do? Cave into "I am guilty until proven innocent"? Let the tail wag the dog? I Think not. Read the emails, faxes on another post between Hance and Sowell? Tell me you think this was good faith?

[Rustler]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Okay, maybe not supports the rumor that that's where the video was taken, but that there is an electrical closet in the media room. You might want to get up to date and read the statement from the trainer Pincock.......This statement AFTER they fire Leach...Trainer has nothing to gain.

[JJWalker]

Looks like some Sproting News bloggers are on the rumor trail.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/49786/is_this_adam_james_trapped_in_the_closet

To me it looks like blogging as a form of information exchange still has a little bit of independent thought processes. ESPN has to tote the party line because of the liability it may have incurred through Craig James.

[Eagle 1]

Texas Tech head football athletic trainer Steve Pincock said Red Raiders receiver Adam James was placed in a "sports medicine garage" and media room as "big as a two-car garage" while recovering from a concussion, and was monitored by two trainers at all times.

Pincock's account of the incident, given in a statement to representatives of former Texas Tech coach Mike Leach, contradicts James' version of events that led to Leach being fired Wednesday.

James, who is the son of ESPN college football analyst Craig James, sustained a concussion on Dec. 16. He was examined the following day and told not to practice because of the injury and an elevated heart rate.

Pincock's statement was obtained by ESPN.com on Thursday night from Leach's representatives. Pincock refused further comment when reached on his cell phone in San Antonio, Texas, where the Red Raiders are preparing to play Michigan State in Saturday's Alamo Bowl.

A source told ESPN's Joe Schad that Leach called a trainer and directed him to move James "to the darkest place, to clean out the equipment and to make sure that he could not sit or lean. He was confined for three hours."

According to the source, Leach told the trainer, two days later, to "put [James] in the darkest, tightest spot. It was in an electrical closet, again, with a guard posted outside."

However, Pincock said James was initially placed in a "sports medicine garage, there is no lock on this building." Pincock said injured players are typically asked to perform exercises during practice, but "James could not participate in these drills, and was originally asked to walk around the field."

"Adam showed up to practice in street clothes, no team gear, and dark sunglasses," Pincock said, according to the statement. "Adam walked about 40 to 50 yards, very slowly and with a non-caring attitude."

Pincock said Leach then asked that James be moved to a location "where sunlight could not bother him as he was wearing sunglasses."

"I instructed Adam to stay in the garage and out of the sun, so the light would not worsen his condition," Pincock said in the statement. "While in the garage, Adam was walking around, eating ice, sitting on the ground, and, at one point, sleeping; at no point was there any enforcement to make Adam stand up."

Two days later, while the Red Raiders practiced at Jones AT&T Stadium, James was placed in a room that is used for postgame interviews involving opposing coaches and players. James told school officials he was placed in an electrical closet inside the room.

"I walked Adam to the room, which was at least as big as a two-car garage," Pincock wrote. "Inside the room there is an electrical closet. I looked in the closet and stated that there was 'no way that Adam would be placed in there.' I shut the door to the electrical closet, and it was never opened again. At no time during this practice was Adam ever placed in the electrical closet."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4787194

[ziggy29]

As it turns out, I think Tech rushed to judgment to save $800,000. If they "rushed" incorrectly, it's going to cost them a LOT more than that.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Rustler
You might want to get up to date and read the statement from the trainer Pincock.......This statement AFTER they fire Leach...Trainer has nothing to gain.
:confused: That's the link I posted. I didn't say he was "put" in the closet, but that Pincock states there is a closet and that he was not put there. James words in the video were something to the affect "I have to hurry and do this". Quite possiby he had to "hurry" because he knew the trainers were instructed to check on him every 13-15 minutes. If that's the case, he knew he only had limited to get in the closet, take the video, and get back without getting busted. :thinking: I don't know that it happened that way, but it's possible. I've heard some rumors of a possible cause for the concussion that has nothing to do with practice. In no way do I have any information that it's factual, but if it is, I can see trying to get out of trouble & the whole thing blowing up like an atomic bomb.

[Rustler]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
:confused: That's the link I posted. I didn't say he was "put" in the closet, but that Pincock states there is a closet and that he was not put there. James words in the video were something to the affect "I have to hurry and do this". Quite possiby he had to "hurry" because he knew the trainers were instructed to check on him every 13-15 minutes. If that's the case, he knew he only had limited to get in the closet, take the video, and get back without getting busted. :thinking: I don't know that it happened that way, but it's possible. I've heard some rumors of a possible cause for the concussion that has nothing to do with practice. In no way do I have any information that it's factual, but if it is, I can see trying to get out of trouble & the whole thing blowing up like an atomic bomb. Just wanted to make sure what rumor you were referring to....was unclear to me. It depends on what the defintion of "IS" is (What James family will finally use a deffense)?

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by JJWalker
The rumor is circulating, apparently from one of the players, that the electrical closet is off of the media room. So Adam just opened the closet door and stepped inside the closet, so that it looked like he was put in there instead of the conference room.

Of course it is just a rumor, but Tech really should learn to lock the doors!
^^^
This one.... ;)

Originally posted by Rustler
Just wanted to make sure what rumor you were referring to....was unclear to me.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by 3afan
the James kid scorned?

I bet more people are applauding him ... someone tell me what he did wrong? the ONLY place a coach should send a kid who is hurt is to the trainer, no where else

Both my stepsons attend Texas Tech....I am only going off of what I am hearing from the both of them....and he IS being scorned by the vast majority of the people my kids know.

So...right or wrong, like it or not...it is what it is.

[Eagle 1]

Listening to this game on ESPN is sickening....:ack!:

E laborately
S pun
P undit
N etwork

[bobcat4life]

Is ESPN one sided?
Is Ed "Too Tall" Jones too tall?

[Eagle 1]

Originally posted by bobcat4life
Is ESPN one sided?
Is Ed "Too Tall" Jones too tall?

:D :clap:

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by Rustler
:thinking: Thought highly of him for what......Taking money at SMU? Exceptional jounalism? :thinking: No, I try to look past the SMU thing. If i was a poor 19 yr old I might do the same thing. Sure would be hard to ignore when its common practice . He had just struck me as a fairly knowledgeble analyst. He probably still is, but I will never be able to listen to him again.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by 3afan
interesting .... but, why Leach chose not to take the "out" he had is a mystery :doh: Now thats a reach.

[Snydertigersrul]

Originally posted by Rustler
You might want to get up to date and read the statement from the trainer Pincock.......This statement AFTER they fire Leach...Trainer has nothing to gain.

YES HE DOES, HE WANTS TO KEEP HIS JOB

[3afan]

you Leach apologists need to get past it --- Leach is obviously a very smart guy, he knew what he was doing (not just with the James thing) and what the risks were, and he lost; now Tech is looking for a new coach

this may not be the doom and gloom of Tech football ... why not give the new staff a chance and back them? its the TEAM you back, not the coach

[blowfish]

No dog in this hunt, but, I could not stomach the coverage last night on ESPN. It was so one sided that I had to turn off the game. Just my opinion but wouldnt you think that this team has gotten the kiss of death. I think the only chance they have is to elevate someone from within. I just dont see a big time coach coming in there. It is so obvious that Tech does not want to pay a football coach the big money.

The sad thing is this really hurts the rest of the Big 12. It has almost becaome a joke anyway with all of the sorry teams in the Big 12. Every year it is going to be UT vs OU for the championship. Lets be honest about that.

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by blowfish
No dog in this hunt, but, I could not stomach the coverage last night on ESPN. It was so one sided that I had to turn off the game. Just my opinion but wouldnt you think that this team has gotten the kiss of death. I think the only chance they have is to elevate someone from within. I just dont see a big time coach coming in there. It is so obvious that Tech does not want to pay a football coach the big money.

The sad thing is this really hurts the rest of the Big 12. It has almost becaome a joke anyway with all of the sorry teams in the Big 12. Every year it is going to be UT vs OU for the championship. Lets be honest about that. Let me see where to begin...

AGREE...AGREE...AGREE... and AGREE

but as for your last point...

I totally AGREE.:D

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by 3afan
its the TEAM you back, not the coach Really??

I support Carthage because of Scott Surratt.

I like Gilmer because of Jeff Traylor.

I used to watch Cincy football because a Texarkana native was their coach.

and oh yeah...

I watched TT because Leach made it interesting.

Now if TT has learned anything from this and pays a good coach what he deserves then they maintain my support.

Of course I won't watch a down of TT football if Adam James is a part of it.

[wimbo_pro]

Originally posted by Rustler
Just wanted to make sure what rumor you were referring to....was unclear to me. It depends on what the defintion of "IS" is (What James family will finally use a deffense)?

Hey Rustler...seeing that more and more players are coming out and commenting on the issue at hand, I was just wondering if any of their comments affect your "facts" that you had assembled last week. Any change in your stance?

[Eagle 1]

From another raider fan, bringing up another good point:


One of the things people are saying is did James get treated like other players with concussions? Good question, but the administration must then answer the question, was Leach treated the same as other coaches that mis-treated a player (ie: Knight).
Adam James states that he was "locked" in electrical closet, yet trainer gives signed affidavant that says was in press room and told "not" to go into electric closet. Video is on web off him in closet, so evidently did not listen to what trainer told him and went in closet and took pictures.

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by Eagle 1
From another raider fan, bringing up another good point:


Adam James states that he was "locked" in electrical closet, yet trainer gives signed affidavant that says was in press room and told "not" to go into electric closet. Video is on web off him in closet, so evidently did not listen to what trainer told him and went in closet and took pictures.
Sounds like Adam James needs to be fired for insubordination, too.

[NateDawg39]

Originally posted by 3afan
you Leach apologists need to get past it --- Leach is obviously a very smart guy, he knew what he was doing (not just with the James thing) and what the risks were, and he lost; now Tech is looking for a new coach

this may not be the doom and gloom of Tech football ... why not give the new staff a chance and back them? its the TEAM you back, not the coach I support Leach...and I support Adam James and I hope the best for both of them...however...Adam James is going no where in life with his attitude, Mile Leach will coach again AND win lots of games.

[formercougar18]

Originally posted by N4SIR
I truly doubt your parents would have told you to suck it up if you had a concusion. Are you a parent? If the team doctor tells you that your son/daughter has a concusion are you going to tell them to "suck it up" and get back out there?

I've had a concussion and finished the game, i told my dad that my head was hurting and my eyes were twitching and he told me not to tell the coaches or anyone, and i practiced the whole next week and played in the next game, so i mean obviously thats one situation where a parent has told someone to suck it up.

[hookandladder]

This is not the first time Leach has done or said something stupid and got away with it, Leach is getting what he deserves. You cannot say and do things in this world nowadays like what he has done, as some of his players have already said get over it he's not coming back and I say good riddance.

[DDBooger]

Originally posted by formercougar18
I've had a concussion and finished the game, i told my dad that my head was hurting and my eyes were twitching and he told me not to tell the coaches or anyone, and i practiced the whole next week and played in the next game, so i mean obviously thats one situation where a parent has told someone to suck it up. But now you have brain damage :D :p

[ziggy29]

Originally posted by hookandladder
You cannot say and do things in this world nowadays like what he has done
In other words, the wussification of society marches on.

[bobcat4life]

Originally posted by formercougar18
I've had a concussion and finished the game, i told my dad that my head was hurting and my eyes were twitching and he told me not to tell the coaches or anyone, and i practiced the whole next week and played in the next game, so i mean obviously thats one situation where a parent has told someone to suck it up. Thats happened to me one time. I never told anyone but my girlfriend, and she didnt seem to care

[3afan]

Originally posted by LE Dad
...

Of course I won't watch a down of TT football if Adam James is a part of it.

good lord :rolleyes:

[NateDawg39]

I think we all can agree on two things here; Adam James is a wuss being fed "rich daddy pills", and Mike Leach was the most successful coach at Texas Tech in all their football history
:D :D