Turnovers...why they happen???

[R4Editor]

If you read through the Cuero/Gilmer thread you'll read where some folks from Gilmer think the first 2 touchdowns by Cuero where given to the gobblers by Gilmer. Besides the fact that I guess this means Gilmer is coached not to play defense after a TO, the Gilmer folks also feel like Cuero did nothing to cause the mistake or take control of the ball. We've heard this type of reasoning throughout the year, from Brownwood whenever they would lose, from AW when they lost, and from other team's fans as well. Here’s my take on this "free" turnover business. For the most part I think you can categorize turnovers three ways.

1. When a turnover is forced by actual contact, it's obvious that the D made a play. Whether it's a big hit, good strip, contact on the QB that causes an errant pass, or great play for a pick, most fans who can remain somewhat realistic know when a turnover is forced.

2. Turnovers also happen when a team is not focused. I think you see more of this early in the season when there are big mismatches and teams feel like all they have to do is show up, or when they are hopelessly out matched and just not "into" the game.

3. The third type of turnover is what I think you see a lot of this time of year. These happen when teams think they have to "step up" and play perfect. They press, they try to do things they might not in a less stressful game, like trying to field a punt on a dead run, or fight extra hard for a yard without protecting the ball, force a perfect throw. Even though these turnovers don't appear forced, IMO, they are by the situation and the pressure teams feel to play a perfect game because they are playing against a high quality opponent. This is why at this time of year good coaches try and keep their teams lose, try and not let them get too "hyped" up. When players make uncharacteristic mistakes at this time of year, these mistakes are forced by the situation and the quality of opponent.

[LE Dad]

Just be glad Gilmer won:D :evillol: :evilgrin:

[Rocket]

Originally posted by R4Editor
If you read through the Cuero/Gilmer thread you'll read where some folks from Gilmer think the first 2 touchdowns by Cuero where given to the gobblers by Gilmer. Besides the fact that I guess this means Gilmer is coached not to play defense after a TO, the Gilmer folks also feel like Cuero did nothing to cause the mistake or take control of the ball. We've heard this type of reasoning throughout the year, from Brownwood whenever they would lose, from AW when they lost, and from other team's fans as well. Here’s my take on this "free" turnover business. For the most part I think you can categorize turnovers three ways.

1. When a turnover is forced by actual contact, it's obvious that the D made a play. Whether it's a big hit, good strip, contact on the QB that causes an errant pass, or great play for a pick, most fans who can remain somewhat realistic know when a turnover is forced.

2. Turnovers also happen when a team is not focused. I think you see more of this early in the season when there are big mismatches and teams feel like all they have to do is show up, or when they are hopelessly out matched and just not "into" the game.

3. The third type of turnover is what I think you see a lot of this time of year. These happen when teams think they have to "step up" and play perfect. They press, they try to do things they might not in a less stressful game, like trying to field a punt on a dead run, or fight extra hard for a yard without protecting the ball, force a perfect throw. Even though these turnovers don't appear forced, IMO, they are by the situation and the pressure teams feel to play a perfect game because they are playing against a high quality opponent. This is why at this time of year good coaches try and keep their teams lose, try and not let them get too "hyped" up. When players make uncharacteristic mistakes at this time of year, these mistakes are forced by the situation and the quality of opponent.

The game of football is so cool because so many things (weather, variables, human) can affect the outcome. You have 11 guys working together for one purpose and each man has a job to do. There is also this little thing called a football involved. You must catch it, snap it, throw it, hand it off, and sometimes cover it up. You have 2 people executing these functions. 2 humans. You also have 1 guy running from 11 that want to tackle the man with the football and take that little football. Mistakes are going to happen.

There is a BIG difference in the DEFENSE making a play and the offense not taking care of the football. In the Brownwood-Wimberley game, Brownwood had 2 MIS-SNAPS inside Wimberley's 30 that bounced the way of the Texans. This was not caused by a Wimberley player. Therefore, to say Brownwood gave the game away and beat themselves holds water.

This is the only time it was mentioned by Brownwood. Oh there was one time last year at Wylie when our QB was down and a player jumped on him and took the ball away and the refs gave it to Wylie. Just sayin'...

[turbostud]

Originally posted by Rocket
There is a BIG difference in the DEFENSE making a play and the offense not taking care of the football. In the Brownwood-Wimberley game, Brownwood had 2 MIS-SNAPS inside Wimberley's 30 that bounced the way of the Texans. This was not caused by a Wimberley player. Therefore, to say Brownwood gave the game away and beat themselves holds water.


or you could say Brownwood just did not prepare properly for the game and therefore Wimberley won and was the better team.

[Daddy D 11]

Originally posted by turbostud
or you could say Brownwood just did not prepare properly for the game and therefore Wimberley won and was the better team.

Or you could back off.

[R4Editor]

Rocket,
You make good points. But consider this. A good coach was once asked why his team was losing the turnover battle game after game. He responded, because we're always playing from behind. His team was well aware of the need to hang onto the ball, not make stupid throws and all the rest, but yet they still made mistakes because they were pressing, playing from behind. When Brownwood made those errors against Wimberley, were they behind on the scoreboard?
Turnovers happen because of pressure either directly from the D or pressure because of circumstance. Or, they happen because you're just not very good. Did Brownwood make stupid errors all season and just overcome them with talent? If that's the case they're not a very good team. Or did they make crucial errors at critical times in big games. If that's the case the other side gets some credit for putting the Lions in that position.

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Rocket
The game of football is so cool because so many things (weather, variables, human) can affect the outcome. You have 11 guys working together for one purpose and each man has a job to do. There is also this little thing called a football involved. You must catch it, snap it, throw it, hand it off, and sometimes cover it up. You have 2 people executing these functions. 2 humans. You also have 1 guy running from 11 that want to tackle the man with the football and take that little football. Mistakes are going to happen.

There is a BIG difference in the DEFENSE making a play and the offense not taking care of the football. In the Brownwood-Wimberley game, Brownwood had 2 MIS-SNAPS inside Wimberley's 30 that bounced the way of the Texans. This was not caused by a Wimberley player. Therefore, to say Brownwood gave the game away and beat themselves holds water.

This is the only time it was mentioned by Brownwood. Oh there was one time last year at Wylie when our QB wa

s down and a player jumped on him and took the ball away and the refs gave it to Wylie. Just sayin'...



wasn't at the game so don't.....but could the errant snaps been forced by defensive pressure the center was taking....i don't know just asking not doubting.........and to say you beat yourselves is only a nice way of saying....we didn't deserve to win cause we didn't execute well enough to win.


your post is good one...but you also need to factor in one more thing...the games we watch the most and talk about the most are being played kids 14-18....so they tend to not execute at times..no matter how good we think they are.

[Rocket]

Originally posted by NastySlot
your post is good one...but you also need to factor in one more thing...the games we watch the most and talk about the most are being played kids 14-18....so they tend to not execute at times..no matter how good we think they are.

And this is the biggest factor of them all...

[Rocket]

Originally posted by R4Editor
Rocket,
You make good points. But consider this. A good coach was once asked why his team was losing the turnover battle game after game. He responded, because we're always playing from behind. His team was well aware of the need to hang onto the ball, not make stupid throws and all the rest, but yet they still made mistakes because they were pressing, playing from behind. When Brownwood made those errors against Wimberley, were they behind on the scoreboard?
Turnovers happen because of pressure either directly from the D or pressure because of circumstance. Or, they happen because you're just not very good. Did Brownwood make stupid errors all season and just overcome them with talent? If that's the case they're not a very good team. Or did they make crucial errors at critical times in big games. If that's the case the other side gets some credit for putting the Lions in that position.

We had played from behind the week before and also the Snyder game. None of these errors were made. I understand it happening once, but twice? Very uncharacteristic of our offense. It isn't that playing from behind caused it, it just made it hurt worse.

[Bullaholic]

I don't think any team ever won anything without some breaks going their way. You do have to be a little lucky as well as good and smart to achieve the pinnacle of success in any endeavor prized by more than a few.

[Txbroadcaster]

Turnovers happen because God hates that team at that moment

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Turnovers happen because God hates that team at that moment bahaha you are a bad, bad man. Way to ruin a good thread. :tongue:

[rangerjoe33]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
You do have to be a little lucky as well as good and smart to achieve the pinnacle of success in any endeavor prized by more than a few.

When I read this I thought...

"Deep thoughts by
JACK HANDY... "

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Turnovers happen because God hates that team at that moment

http://www.pcpros-tx.com/lightningstrike.jpg

:D

[SintonPirateFan]

i think turnovers happen to give people an excuse for losing...... so they don't have to admit the other team was better that night.:)

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
i think turnovers happen to give people an excuse for losing...... so they don't have to admit the other team was better that night.:)
but what if it isn't the losing team that's complaining? :D

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by 44INAROW
but what if it isn't the losing team that's complaining? :D LOL:D

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
Turnovers happen because God hates that team at that moment



oh man i knew it....but my dad always told me God doesn't give a d@mn who wins.....im crushed.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by NastySlot
oh man i knew it....but my dad always told me God doesn't give a d@mn who wins.....im crushed.

hahaha that was EXACTLY why I said that for those that pray for a win and things like that..LOL

[95mustang]

Originally posted by SintonPirateFan
i think turnovers happen to give people an excuse for losing...... so they don't have to admit the other team was better that night.:)

The scoreboard proves that. I am not one to get on here and make excuses for winning or losing. Yes we made mistakes and yes those mistakes contributed to the loss. Were we a better team then who we got beat by, Maybe, but not on the night or day in question.

[STANG RED]

Another thing I've noticed about turnovers. Seems like if your known as being prone to turnovers, defenses seem to try to force them more. You especially see it when a RB has the reputation of fumbling, so the defense seems to rip at the ball more. We had a big strong RB that would fight for every inch he could get, which is good I guess, but he would often get stood up and stopped by 2 or 3 defenders, yet still be fighting for yardage, and would get the ball ripped out. It often happened 3 or 4 times a game. It was frustrating as hell, but the kid was a good running back, and would occasionally break those tackles for good runs.

[BuckeyeNut]

True that the Defense most of the time makes the Offense turn it over.

BUT, when the Offense give the ball up on there own 20 and gives the other team a short field that is giving them points. You see it everytime. Point off Turnovers. When you give the other team the ball on your own 20 your going to get behind.

[easttexas3a]

IMO turnovers are apart of the game and typically are always forced by the defense. I do not typically believe that a punt return muff is caused by the defense, but I agree with you that circumstances play a roll in plays like that. Much like a bad snap, a qb just plain dropping the ball, and the always popular bad handoff exchange.

No doubt though Turnovers can be seen imo for a reason of loss or win. If someone were to tell me Gilmer would turn the ball over 3 times, I would of told you they would lose. IF you could tell any team before a game that they are going to win the turnover battle every one of them would feel like they were going to win.

[Farmersfan]

Any turnover is a mistake by the offense! There's no such thing as a "Takeaway"! The defense can make it more likely for the offense to make the mistakes by hitting hard, pressure on the QB and other things. But the bottomline reality is a turnover is a giveaway by the offense.

Just my opinion so don't dogpile people!!!!

[navscanmaster]

In my opinion, situations such as a muffed punt or bad snap leading to a safety or fumble recovery by the defense are not caused turnovers, therefore are "gifts" if you must. I would not reward a defense with praise for creating that one. A little more controversial would be a fumbled or bad pitch on an option. You could say that the defensive pressure, which obviously is forthcoming if a pitch was made, caused the bad pitch. A fumbled pitch by the receiving back can be because of pressure or because the running back was looking ahead to the run instead of catching the ball first. So depending on the circumstances, a "gift" could have been handed out on that turnover. Now interceptions are almost always a credit to the defense. The only controversial "gift" question comes when a quarterback with plenty of time and no pressure makes a horrible throw right that is in no position for a receiver to stop the defender from catching the ball. But still, the defender has to make a play on every interception, namely, catching the ball. Therefore, I think no interception can be called a gift unless a missed penalty by the referees led to the defender being allowed to catch the ball.

just my $.02

[turbostud]

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Or you could back off.

:D The knife cut deep?