Slot vs. Spread in 3A playoffs [Archive]

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 06:23 PM

I'm just asking the question out of curiosity. ;)

Liberty Hill must have snuck in the spread for playoffs to make it throught the mighty maze of spread the past 3 years to their championship. Surely they didn't just stay with the Slot since the Slot can't be successful in the playoffs. No wait, they must have just met poor defensive teams all along the way. :rolleyes:

Sure are a lot of Spread offense teams playing basketball.

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Yoe_09
Caldwell is pretty good at running the slot but they are not what Liberty Hill used to be. I think that Caldwell will have some success but when they run into a good defense they could be in trouble.

A good defensive team is a good defensive team no matter what they go up against...spread or run.

Caldwell predominately runs but we can throw when we want to.

Yoe_09

11-15-2009, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by ProudHornetMom
A good defensive team is a good defensive team no matter what they go up against...spread or run.

Caldwell predominately runs but we can throw when we want to.

If a team cant get you to start throwing the ball then they are doing a very good job. Ive seen Caldwell play twice (Cameron and Navasota) and they never completed a pass. I think you have to stay to the game plan and run the ball.

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by ziggy29
Uh-oh. Time for the Rocket's red glare.....

Rocket has a red glare but this mama knows where he's coming from. Remember he's just passionate for Brownwood. He and I came to terms last year.

And I kinda think it's funny how the mention of Slot makes some members become enraged. You don't hear of the reverse. Wonder why the Slot causes such a viseral effect?

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Yoe_09
If a team cant get you to start throwing the ball then they are doing a very good job. Ive seen Caldwell play twice (Cameron and Navasota) and they never completed a pass. I think you have to stay to the game plan and run the ball.

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree that we need to stay with our running game plan and control the clock.

navscanmaster

11-15-2009, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by ProudHornetMom
Rocket has a red glare but this mama knows where he's coming from. Remember he's just passionate for Brownwood. He and I came to terms last year.

And I kinda think it's funny how the mention of Slot makes some members become enraged. You don't hear of the reverse. Wonder why the Slot causes such a viseral effect?

Looking at your signature now, are you really still trying to perpetuate that mud argument? I only know of one Navasota poster that blamed anything on the mud, and he only comments twice a year.:D

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 06:42 PM

Not referring to Navasota at all.

We've had 4 games in rain and mud this year in which we won...without the aid of water sprinklers. :D

Rocket

11-15-2009, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by ProudHornetMom
Rocket has a red glare but this mama knows where he's coming from. Remember he's just passionate for Brownwood. He and I came to terms last year.

And I kinda think it's funny how the mention of Slot makes some members become enraged. You don't hear of the reverse. Wonder why the Slot causes such a viseral effect?

The Slot, to me, is a risky offense. When you play a good team that can score fast, the ball control offense is WORTHLESS. You put all of your eggs in one basket and they will end up breaking. Unless you are beating these horrible 3A's and it's giving you a false sense of accomplishment.

plpsftball

11-15-2009, 08:06 PM

Kinda like LV did you guys last year. ( i know you guys put a nice beat down on us this year)

ProudHornetMom

11-15-2009, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
The Slot, to me, is a risky offense. When you play a good team that can score fast, the ball control offense is WORTHLESS. You put all of your eggs in one basket and they will end up breaking. Unless you are beating these horrible 3A's and it's giving you a false sense of accomplishment.

No false sense of accomplishment. Our team works hard together every week.

Sell me on the spread. What makes it's the best for 3A football. I mean this question sincerely. I don't know much about the spread. What would be the selling point?

sinfan75

11-15-2009, 08:11 PM

Same can be said for the spread. Unless you have balance between the pass and run, it's a worthless offense. You can win a state title being heavy on the run but not heavy on the pass.

Global Swarming

11-15-2009, 08:21 PM

I've noticed that spread offenses seem to have trouble when the field is not dry. Our type of running doesn't seem to be affected by a wet field.

Footballhudini

11-15-2009, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Blastoderm55
Mathis used its slot t offense to light up Lyford's 10-0 defense to the tune of 41-24 in the bidistrict round.

I've never heard of a 10-0 defense.

lostaussie

11-15-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by ProudHornetMom
No false sense of accomplishment. Our team works hard together every week.

Sell me on the spread. What makes it's the best for 3A football. I mean this question sincerely. I don't know much about the spread. What would be the selling point? yesterday Jasper scored 2 ligit tds(the 3rd was a trash time td) on both occasions Gilmer scored on the very next play from scrimmage...............they worked 6 minutes to get theirs.............took us 20 seconds............absolutely demoralized them!!!!

OldBison75

11-15-2009, 08:24 PM

Mom, the style of offense is not nearly as important as the kids that are running the offense. A spread team can open up opportunities if they can cause a defense to respect both the run and pass. BUT, a good running team can force a defense to man up on the receivers and that over playing the run will open up a very effective passing game. The slot-t, like many running formations, is built to chew up yards and the clock and keep the ball outta the hands of the fast scoring offenses like the spread. If a team can only average 4 yards per snap in the slot-they can march relentlessly down the field. What we do know, is that when a defense loads up against a great running team, there are many opportunities for the running back to break through the front 7 or 8 and then have big running room in the secondary. If the defense dosen't put 7 or 8 in the box on defense, it is damned hard to hold the running game to less than three yards per carry. I say this assuming that the team running the ball is very good at what they do, like Caldwell this year and LH the last few years.

I have done the playoff contest thing and my picks are for Caldwell to make the finals because of the ability they have to run the slot without mistakes and the pure determination they have. I believe the Caldwell defense has proven this year that they can play both the run and pass very effectively and they can control the clock and the ball on long sustained drives if that is what it takes. Many times a running team gets impatient and tries to get too fancy to create a quik score--Caldwell, like LH teams of the past, were content to pound the ball and take whatever big plays that came along.

The spread can be very effective, but if the defense can disrupt the line of scrimmage and put a little pressure on the QB, it is like the old coaches saying, if you pass too much only three things can happen and two of them are BAD.

LH Panther Mom

11-15-2009, 10:18 PM

I'm confused as to why we're having this discussion. It should be obvious to anyone on here that the spread is king and running anything else is absolutely ludicrous, particularly because we are all horrible. Come on, PHM...get with the program. :p

WOS87

11-15-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I'm confused as to why we're having this discussion. It should be obvious to anyone on here that the spread is king and running anything else is absolutely ludicrous, particularly because we are all horrible. Come on, PHM...get with the program. :p

LHPM could you remind me of the Liberty Hill - Gilmer score from the 2007 State Championship game? I forget what it was...

:stirpot: :1popcorn: :devil:

Rocket

11-15-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I'm confused as to why we're having this discussion. It should be obvious to anyone on here that the spread is king and running anything else is absolutely ludicrous, particularly because we are all horrible. Come on, PHM...get with the program. :p

Remember the Brownwood game this year? I know all you like to talk about is the last 3 years, but think back. What happened when you got behind?

It's more about selling out to the run and not having anything else. It blows my mind that teams do this.

TheDOCTORdre

11-15-2009, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Footballhudini
I've never heard of a 10-0 defense.

I could light up a defense if it had one less man on the field:D

WOS87

11-15-2009, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Remember the Brownwood game this year? I know all you like to talk about is the last 3 years, but think back. What happened when you got behind?

I'm pretty sure they lost. Same thing that happened to Gilmer in '07. What's your point?

Still love you Rocket!

Rocket

11-15-2009, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by WOS87
I'm pretty sure they lost. Same thing that happened to Gilmer in '07. What's your point?

Still love you Rocket!

My point is that they were in a hole and helpless.

No doubt the LH teams of 2006 and 2007 were awesome. But if you are waiting for talent like that to show up again, its gonna be a loooong wait.

WOS87

11-15-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
My point is that they were in a hole and helpless.

Just like Gilmer

Yoe_09

11-15-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by Global Swarming
I've noticed that spread offenses seem to have trouble when the field is not dry. Our type of running doesn't seem to be affected by a wet field.

A lot of spread type offenses dont just power run the ball forward. A lot of the spread teams running backs and QBs like to make cuts and certain moves. With a wet and muddy field you cannot make these moves without falling down.

LH Panther Mom

11-15-2009, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by WOS87
LHPM could you remind me of the Liberty Hill - Gilmer score from the 2007 State Championship game? I forget what it was...

:stirpot: :1popcorn: :devil:
38-13 but that's in the past, don't ya know? Anyone who's anyone runs the spread in the here and now...and if not, it's because we're all horrible. (Yeah, seems Gilmer ran the spread in 2007, but I won't mention that part!)

It's my understanding at the next realignment, Charles Breithaupt, with 100% approval of 3A and above Supts, is going to announce that ALL teams are required to run the spread. Oh, and defensively all teams are required to have a 33-33-34 split of 4-2-5, 3-4 and 4-3. AND they must all run the split at the same time as the opponent so that no one team has an advantage. There will no longer be a State Championship or even playoffs. There will however be participation trophies for all 15,000 +/- student athletes.

LH Panther Mom

11-15-2009, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
My point is that they were in a hole and helpless.

No doubt the LH teams of 2006 and 2007 were awesome. But if you are waiting for talent like that to show up again, its gonna be a loooong wait.
You don't live here and know nothing of the kids we have, which includes siblings of starters from those teams. Do you ever NOT run down another team, ESPECIALLY those of us who have actually had a ton of success running "archaic" systems while your team was sitting at home practicing for next year and their spread? Just once, shut up with your bs.

TheDOCTORdre

11-15-2009, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Remember the Brownwood game this year? I know all you like to talk about is the last 3 years, but think back. What happened when you got behind?

It's more about selling out to the run and not having anything else. It blows my mind that teams do this.

whats Wylie run, that seems to work pretty well doesnt it

LE Dad

11-15-2009, 11:15 PM

I wish everyone ran the Spread offense.

:evillol: :evillol: :evillol:

LE Dad

11-15-2009, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
whats Wylie run, that seems to work pretty well doesnt it LOL, What happend when Brownwood was down 14 to Wylie?:D

IHStangFan

11-15-2009, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
The Slot, to me, is a risky offense. When you play a good team that can score fast, the ball control offense is WORTHLESS. You put all of your eggs in one basket and they will end up breaking. Unless you are beating these horrible 3A's and it's giving you a false sense of accomplishment. I don't know Rocketman.....Needville almost knocked off Sealy last week w/ a ball control oriented effort. I know almost doesn't count....but it worked for them somewhat considering everyone thought the score would be 62-0. ;)

wyliefan

11-15-2009, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
whats Wylie run, that seems to work pretty well doesnt it

They run a pro style offense, they can pound it with the run with 3 good backs or they can open it up and put 5 WR in the formation.

Additup

11-16-2009, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
What happened when you got behind? It's more about selling out to the run and not having anything else. It blows my mind that teams do this.
If ANY offense is great at digging a team out of a 21 point deficit, then how'd that great offense get 21 points down in the first place ?

IHStangFan

11-16-2009, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by Additup
If ANY offense is great at digging a team out of a 21 point deficit, then how'd that great offense get 21 points down in the first place ? Because their defense is suspect?

Cameron Crazy

11-16-2009, 02:12 AM

Graham is going to run the spread like they have been for a good 5 years now. I honestly think that everyone is trying to switch it up and move from the veer to the spread.

The only teams I could see that they would stay the way they are is Liberty Hill because they dominate whatever offense that they run.

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
The Slot, to me, is a risky offense. When you play a good team that can score fast, the ball control offense is WORTHLESS. You put all of your eggs in one basket and they will end up breaking. Unless you are beating these horrible 3A's and it's giving you a false sense of accomplishment.

I am getting the impression Rocket's short stay in 3A has thus far left him a bit angry and bitter.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I am getting the impression Rocket's short stay in 3A has thus far left him a bit angry and bitter.

No, I just can't understand why a team would be so one dimensional that the passing game is totally non-existent. I have seen it way too many times this season and my thoughts on it say that since this a big trend in 3A, wouldn't it make sense to invest in the passing game a little more? Not even run the spread, just pass the ball 20% of the time.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
You don't live here and know nothing of the kids we have, which includes siblings of starters from those teams. Do you ever NOT run down another team, ESPECIALLY those of us who have actually had a ton of success running "archaic" systems while your team was sitting at home practicing for next year and their spread? Just once, shut up with your bs.

How am I running down your team? I am running down your offensive scheme. YES, it was successful. Good job! And yes, I agree that the talent, coaching, team chemistry, and all of that matter, BUT it cannot be denied that what's happening is a big change in tide in 3A. This started last season. I can't wait to see who wins it all, and the type of offense these teams are running. As for 2008, we know what happened in the Championships.

A team that can pass the ball EFFECTIVELY has a big advantage in 3A. Why? Cuz the GOOD passing teams are few and far between. Until the spread has saturated 3A, those that can run it well will have a BIG advantage because of the problems it will bring to defenses that are used to stopping the run. Cover 4 WR's the whole game after you have been stopping teams with 8 in the box at 5 yards a play. Conditioning is a big factor.

These are just some things to think about. I am sorry I am so dogmatic and that you are taking this so personal. State Championships are special. You had 3 VERY loaded and talented classes in a row. This is something that doesn't come along often. True I know nothing about your town and your kids. I hope LH proves me wrong. We will see.

I do understand the frustration of people not respecting what you have accomplished because of one down year. ;)

LionKing

11-16-2009, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by LE Dad
LOL, What happend when Brownwood was down 14 to Wylie?:D Putting in the 3rd and 4th string QB's because the 2nd string QB got injured.:D

Rocket

11-16-2009, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by LionKing
Putting in the 3rd and 4th string QB's because the 2nd string QB got injured.:D

We lost 2 Starting QB's and still have a better record than LE. :thinking:

LH_Tuff

11-16-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
No, I just can't understand why a team would be so one dimensional that the passing game is totally non-existent. I have seen it way too many times this season and my thoughts on it say that since this a big trend in 3A, wouldn't it make sense to invest in the passing game a little more? Not even run the spread, just pass the ball 20% of the time.

Rocket - LH has always been able to pass when they need to. Just ask Burnet and Bridgeport about last years games. I'll admit the passing ability was not really there this year. But, to say that LH never passes is wrong. It is just never the first option.

LE Dad

11-16-2009, 11:25 AM

Wow Rocket you are actually starting to make some sense. This scares me to say, but I can acually see your point. :D

LE Dad

11-16-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
We lost 2 Starting QB's and still have a better record than LE. :thinking: Hmmm, we lost our QB week 5 along with our second leading rusher. I just choose not to use that as a crutch :rolleyes:

STANG RED

11-16-2009, 11:51 AM

I don’t care if you have a passing or running offense. But you better be able to do both well enough to make the opposing D respect it to even get to the finals, much less win it. Most one dimensional teams, no matter how good they are, will fall before or in the semis.

ProudHornetMom

11-16-2009, 12:49 PM

I still don't understand the lash out against our poor archaic system. If Brownwood dominates week in and week out, it really shoudn't matter what the other team does. Domination is domination. I still wonder why Slot fans aren't worked up over teams having the spread offense.

I'm not getting a sell on the spread...just frustration against the Slot. I'm so confused. :rolleyes:

It must be one of those "because I said so" thing.

ProudHornetMom

11-16-2009, 12:53 PM

Rocket

11-16-2009, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by ProudHornetMom
I still don't understand the lash out against our poor archaic system. If Brownwood dominates week in and week out, it really shoudn't matter what the other team does. Domination is domination. I still wonder why Slot fans aren't worked up over teams having the spread offense.

I'm not getting a sell on the spread...just frustration against the Slot. I'm so confused. :rolleyes:

It must be one of those "because I said so" thing.

It is discussion and opinion. 2 things that encourage conversation on this board. Some people just can't handle other people's opinions. This opinion of mine is not new. It is the same one I had the first week I joined this board and something that I have not kept a secret. LOL

I do not have to kiss everybody's butt. Especially LH. I hope we get a chance to smash them again next season just to make sure everybody sees the point of this current discussion. And just a reminder, Longoria is only a junior. Probably won't happen since Shipley has Vance's number.

The sell on the spread pertains to 3A defenses not seeing it but 2-3 times a year, giving that team executing the spread a BIG advantage. (executing the spread well)

TheDOCTORdre

11-16-2009, 02:23 PM

Slot vs Spread??? ....

SCREW THEM BOTH. A good, well disciplined defense who executes and makes plays will stop both. Who cares about offenses? The old addage will hold up this year, Offense may wins games but defense will win the championship.

bigwood33

11-16-2009, 02:23 PM

Getting kids to buy in is the key, whatever the offense is. I will say this though, Rocket is absolutely wrong in saying that a team must go to a spread offense to be successful. Last years state champions were run it first, throw it 2nd and maybe 3rd teams. Prosper runs it 2 times for every 1 time that they throw it. Carthage and Prosper were/are primarily 'I' formation teams and Celina is mostly 'T' formation. Year before last, Celina and LH won the state championships (Div 1 and 2) and LH didn't throw it once in their defeat of Gilmer and Celina threw it less than 10 times. I can go on and on about this because the facts just do not support Rockets claim.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
Hmmm, we lost our QB week 5 along with our second leading rusher. I just choose not to use that as a crutch :rolleyes:

We are 9-2. What crutch are you talking about?

DaHop72

11-16-2009, 02:28 PM

Rocket

11-16-2009, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by bigwood33
Getting kids to buy in is the key, whatever the offense is. I will say this though, Rocket is absolutely wrong in saying that a team must go to a spread offense to be successful. Last years state champions were run it first, throw it 2nd and maybe 3rd teams. Prosper runs it 2 times for every 1 time that they throw it. Carthage and Prosper were/are primarily 'I' formation teams and Celina is mostly 'T' formation. Year before last, Celina and LH won the state championships (Div 1 and 2) and LH didn't throw it once in their defeat of Gilmer and Celina threw it less than 10 times. I can go on and on about this because the facts just do not support Rockets claim.

I didn't say the Spread would guarantee anything or you would have to run it to be successful. I am saying that there is a DEFINITE ADVANTAGE. It is the fact that defenses are not used to stopping it. True, the spread is not easy to run, but we are running it with a converted WR. LOL Running the spread and running the spread well are 2 entirely different things.

You are talking about 2007. 2008 Championships were won by teams that are at least throwing the ball and not selling out to the run. If you are saying that most of these teams do not run the spread but are running I and T, I am loving our chances this season.

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 03:01 PM

Let's say that there was an "All Star" team put together from all 3A players across the state, and that this team didnt run the spread but the Slot T, and ran the ball 99% of the time. With good coaching, it's safe to say this hypothetical team would probably beat every other team in the state, and probably beat them badly. And, they would probably beat most 4A's and many 5A's too.

I know this is a ridiculous scenario, but it can be used to make my point. My point is...its about talent and coaching.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Let's say that there was an "All Star" team put together from all 3A players across the state, and that this team didnt run the spread but the Slot T, and ran the ball 99% of the time. With good coaching, it's safe to say this hypothetical team would probably beat every other team in the state, and probably beat them badly. And, they would probably beat most 4A's and many 5A's too.

I know this is a ridiculous scenario, but it can be used to make my point. My point is...its about talent and coaching.

No, you aren't factoring in the 11 best defensive players that would shut that run down. Then what wimbo?

bigwood33

11-16-2009, 03:57 PM

DC's across the state would rather prepare for spread teams than slot or wing 'T' teams...I guarantee it. Mostly that is because they see more spread than anything else and therefore it is easier to prepare for.

Bullaholic

11-16-2009, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
I didn't say the Spread would guarantee anything or you would have to run it to be successful. I am saying that there is a DEFINITE ADVANTAGE. It is the fact that defenses are not used to stopping it. True, the spread is not easy to run, but we are running it with a converted WR. LOL Running the spread and running the spread well are 2 entirely different things.

You are talking about 2007. 2008 Championships were won by teams that are at least throwing the ball and not selling out to the run. If you are saying that most of these teams do not run the spread but are running I and T, I am loving our chances this season.

Rocket, I'm going to give you partial agreement---the spread has a definite advantage when playing run-oriented teams who have never seen it. The Bulls proved that in 93' when Coach Henson was one of the first 3A teams to run the spread exclusively for an offense. We really surprised some folks for many years with our offense, but here is where I disagree---I don't think there are too many good coaching staffs in the current day who are not very familiar, and have never played against a spread team. That day is simply gone.

The biggest single advantage of the spread offense, is as the name implies---offensive co-ordinators can spread the field and force more 1-on-1 matchups, leaving most defensive personnel on an 'island' so it is easier for receivers to make YAC and backs to run thru a thinner layer of defenders because many have been 'run off' in pass protection.

Here's one thing you are also overlooking, Rocket. After the Bulls faced the LH slot-T in the playoffs last year, I can tell you without the shadow of a doubt, that the Slot-T accomplishes almost the same thing as the spread by isolating defenders and making them make 1-on-1 tackles at the point of attack because the 'help' has been 'run off' by multiple fakes. The Bulls just could not contain the LH Slot-T last season because they had players who made it so quick and deadly by their almost flawless execution of it. Give credit where credit is due, Rocket. I hated to lose to LH last season---I really thought it was the year of the Bull--but I certainly came to appreciate the skill and precision of that LH team running the Slot-T to perfection.

themsu97

11-16-2009, 04:39 PM

remember that when it comes to Rocket, it all boils down to Brownwood and that they are finally having some success again... they got beat down last year by Liberty Hill and the slot T... which now is not working because it is archaic... when Brownwood loses it is because of injuries or bad officiating or what have you...
Rocket's schtick gets old...you are successful at what you do because your kids can execute it no matter what... and when your kids are good at what they do no matter what the defense throws at you they know how to adjust...
it all comes down to a great oline that knows how to make these adjustments... plain and simple...
just wondering what the excuse is when Brownwood loses to either Wimberly/ Graham or Celina...

Bullaholic

11-16-2009, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
just wondering what the excuse is when Brownwood loses to either Wimberly/ Graham or Celina...

You mean you didn't read Rocket's 'white paper' on "The Celina System", themsu07? :D

themsu97

11-16-2009, 04:46 PM

I read it... just paid no attention to it...
Celina is good, plain and simple... nobody is that good for that long by luck...
if that was the case then the same theory can be applied to all the championships that Brownwood used to win...
people hate winners...

I saw Brownwood and Liberty Hill several times last year and Liberty Hill was WWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY better... saw them both on film this year and last years LH team is still way better...
and I have no dog in either race...
it all comes down to oline

Bullaholic

11-16-2009, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
I read it... just paid no attention to it...
Celina is good, plain and simple... nobody is that good for that long by luck...
if that was the case then the same theory can be applied to all the championships that Brownwood used to win...
people hate winners...

I saw Brownwood and Liberty Hill several times last year and Liberty Hill was WWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY better... saw them both on film this year and last years LH team is still way better...
and I have no dog in either race...
it all comes down to oline

I don't think that anybody took the time to point out to Rocket that Gordon Wood didn't run the spread. :D BTW--I agree with all you have said. Football is still a just game of blocking and tackling from pee wee to the pros----any team that does both well will always win a lot more than they lose....regardless of offensive and defensive schemes.

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by themsu97

just wondering what the excuse is when Brownwood loses to either Wimberly/ Graham or Celina...

Hold on now!!! We gotta get by Iowa Park first!

But, assuming we do...Wimberley has not been very good this year against the pass. Everyone knows this. Brownwood would be the best passing team we have faced all year (Burnet might have been as well, but they played like crap that night).

One of two things would have to happen for us to beat a team like Brownwood...we would either have to suddenly improve far beyond what we have shown all year in the pass defense scheme, or Brownwood would have to have a horrible passing night. Both are possible, I suppose.

TheDOCTORdre

11-16-2009, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Hold on now!!! We gotta get by Iowa Park first!

But, assuming we do...Wimberley has not been very good this year against the pass. Everyone knows this. Brownwood would be the best passing team we have faced all year (Burnet might have been as well, but they played like crap that night).

One of two things would have to happen for us to beat a team like Brownwood...we would either have to suddenly improve far beyond what we have shown all year in the pass defense scheme, or Brownwood would have to have a horrible passing night. Both are possible, I suppose.

Just dress up in Wylie uniforms, and that should give you the edge you need over Brownwood:D

Bullaholic

11-16-2009, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
Just dress up in Wylie uniforms, and that should give you the edge you need over Brownwood:D

You're going to make Rocket hyper-ventilate and drown in his own foaming slobber, dre. :D

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
Just dress up in Wylie uniforms, and that should give you the edge you need over Brownwood:D

LOL...I heard that AW has Brownwoods number, and that the chances of Brownwood EVER beating them in the future is ZERO.

That's the word on the street anyways...

Daddy D 11

11-16-2009, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
LOL...I heard that AW has Brownwoods number, and that the chances of Brownwood EVER beating them in the future is ZERO.

That's the word on the street anyways...

Heard that too.

:1popcorn:

Powwow

11-16-2009, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
We lost 2 Starting QB's and still have a better record than LE. :thinking:

And...... Your point is.......:sleeping: This is the playoffs. :doh:

LE Dad

11-16-2009, 05:25 PM

LE Dad

11-16-2009, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Powwow
And...... Your point is.......:sleeping: This is the playoffs. :doh: With Rocket there is no point:rolleyes: :rolleyes: only endless babble :D You get used to it after a while:nerd:

TheDOCTORdre

11-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
It must be true :p

I saw it on 3ADL!:evillol: :evillol: :evillol:

the only thing more gospel than that is if you were to hear it at the whataburger in Early:D

IshotAcarebear

11-16-2009, 06:24 PM

Argyle has had some success with the spread since Coach Todd Rogers brought it over with him from Marcus.

OldBison75

11-16-2009, 07:12 PM

I'll say again that it is not what scheme you run as much as the players that run it. If the players can fit the scheme and execute, it really dosen't matter what you run. I guarantee you that two years ago, LH could have come to the line of scrimmage against Navasota in the Regional Finals and announced the play out loud and Navasota would not have stopped them most of the time. They were a well oiled machine that just plain and simple overpowered and outplayed us.

As for the BROWNWOOD/ROCKET theory that the spread gives you a big advantage, I think he has overstated the situation and assumed that it is the spread that has them winning. I hate to tell him, but it is the kids that are executing that system. With the type athletes that the Lions are fielding, they could probably be 9-2 with the slot-t, wing-t, power I, or sandlot crunch. Alot of teams have run the spread pretty well the last few years, but not alot have been crowned State Champs.

Daddy D 11

11-16-2009, 07:13 PM

Bob Shipley is the reason Brownwood is winning. No other reason.

87 TIGER

11-16-2009, 07:54 PM

I don't really think it's the offense it's more like the atheletes running the offense. Last year we played 3 slot teams :Llano,Caldwell, and Cleveland and won all three. This year we have played 2 slots Llano and Caldwell we are 50/50.IMO I like a good running game but I also like to mix it up I'm more proset. One is not better than the other it all depends on what fits your atheletes.

ProudHornetMom

11-16-2009, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by 87 TIGER
One is not better than the other it all depends on what fits your atheletes.

Thank you. :clap:

LH Panther Mom

11-16-2009, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
No, I just can't understand why a team would be so one dimensional that the passing game is totally non-existent.
That's just it. You don't HAVE to understand - you don't get paid to coach here or even scout us. We have been a heavy passing team in the not too distant past. I don't remember if we ran the spread, but whatever it was, we stunk! I'll take what we've got going on now, yes including a down year. You know why? And before you pop off with some more dribble, take about 10-15 minutes for this to sink in. I'll even make it simple for you because heaven knows this seems to be pretty complicated.

1984 - 2000 (that's 17 seasons): 6 playoff games with 2 of them being wins

1999 - 2000 (that's 2 seasons): Passing team - 3-7 and 2-8 with team mentality & moral the consistency of warmed over dog poop, which had little to do with the record

2001 - 2009 (that's 9 seasons): I shouldn't even have to go there

See, you "might" not be running down our team, or other teams, but I tend to take it personally because I had one playing in HS in '99 & '00. And while you're talking about how horrible the rest of us are, just think back to who was beating you week in and out last season. Yes, I know. You had no defense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Well, here's a news flash for you: IT TAKES OFFENSE AND DEFENSE to play football.

And I'm done commenting on this thread. :)

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 09:24 PM

ZAP!!! BANG!!!!! POW!!!!!!

Rocket

11-16-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by LE Dad
With Rocket there is no point:rolleyes: :rolleyes: only endless babble :D You get used to it after a while:nerd:

yeah and you are one to talk.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
That's just it. You don't HAVE to understand - you don't get paid to coach here or even scout us. We have been a heavy passing team in the not too distant past. I don't remember if we ran the spread, but whatever it was, we stunk! I'll take what we've got going on now, yes including a down year. You know why? And before you pop off with some more dribble, take about 10-15 minutes for this to sink in. I'll even make it simple for you because heaven knows this seems to be pretty complicated.

1984 - 2000 (that's 17 seasons): 6 playoff games with 2 of them being wins

1999 - 2000 (that's 2 seasons): Passing team - 3-7 and 2-8 with team mentality & moral the consistency of warmed over dog poop, which had little to do with the record

2001 - 2009 (that's 9 seasons): I shouldn't even have to go there

See, you "might" not be running down our team, or other teams, but I tend to take it personally because I had one playing in HS in '99 & '00. And while you're talking about how horrible the rest of us are, just think back to who was beating you week in and out last season. Yes, I know. You had no defense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Well, here's a news flash for you: IT TAKES OFFENSE AND DEFENSE to play football.

And I'm done commenting on this thread. :)

If you aren't horrible, then I am not talking to you. Seems like you might think I am talking about you and you are putting yourself in that category. Paranoid?

Trust me, I know what it takes to win. I am from Brownwood. ;) And I guess we have it this year and you don't.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
I read it... just paid no attention to it...
Celina is good, plain and simple... nobody is that good for that long by luck...
if that was the case then the same theory can be applied to all the championships that Brownwood used to win...
people hate winners...

I saw Brownwood and Liberty Hill several times last year and Liberty Hill was WWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY better... saw them both on film this year and last years LH team is still way better...
and I have no dog in either race...
it all comes down to oline

Brownwood's defense this year would have smothered LH's offense from last year. LH's defense was not all that. Secondary was horrible. Remember, the coaching change. Shipley owns Vance. ;) Also remember the points we hung on LH, this year and last year.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by themsu97
remember that when it comes to Rocket, it all boils down to Brownwood and that they are finally having some success again... they got beat down last year by Liberty Hill and the slot T... which now is not working because it is archaic... when Brownwood loses it is because of injuries or bad officiating or what have you...
Rocket's schtick gets old...you are successful at what you do because your kids can execute it no matter what... and when your kids are good at what they do no matter what the defense throws at you they know how to adjust...
it all comes down to a great oline that knows how to make these adjustments... plain and simple...
just wondering what the excuse is when Brownwood loses to either Wimberly/ Graham or Celina...

No, I pretty much remember taking on the board last year about this same topic before we got "beat down" :rolleyes: by LH. LOL Please, we had no defense and were in every game we played last year.

NastySlot

11-16-2009, 09:57 PM

hey i got a question...when brownwood was winning all those state titles...what offense did they run?

Daddy D 11

11-16-2009, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
No, I pretty much remember taking on the board last year about this same topic before we got "beat down" :rolleyes: by LH. LOL Please, we had no defense and were in every game we played last year.

Here's a cookie for being in every game last year:D

And here's a BIG FAT LOSS for every game you ended up losing... L L L L L L L.

:devil: In case you can't count that's 7 losses. Which is how many Brownwood had last year.

HAHA. But who's talking bout the past right?:p

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by OldBison75
I'll say again that it is not what scheme you run as much as the players that run it. If the players can fit the scheme and execute, it really dosen't matter what you run. I guarantee you that two years ago, LH could have come to the line of scrimmage against Navasota in the Regional Finals and announced the play out loud and Navasota would not have stopped them most of the time. They were a well oiled machine that just plain and simple overpowered and outplayed us.

As for the BROWNWOOD/ROCKET theory that the spread gives you a big advantage, I think he has overstated the situation and assumed that it is the spread that has them winning. I hate to tell him, but it is the kids that are executing that system. With the type athletes that the Lions are fielding, they could probably be 9-2 with the slot-t, wing-t, power I, or sandlot crunch. Alot of teams have run the spread pretty well the last few years, but not alot have been crowned State Champs.

Brownwood ran the Bone from 1995-2000. They ran it very well. BUT, guess what would happen every year. Yup, we would play a team that could stop it and then get behind and then the power game was useless. It is very frustrating to watch. Unless you have an excellent group like LH did the last few years, I am just not buying that it is the best way to go.

If you are telling me run heavy offenses work so good if executed with athletes, please tell me why you hardly EVER see it in college or the pros and seldom in 4A and 5A. Please? 3A and down can get away with it. Not so much in the upper levels.

A Good Balanced offense is a better offense. Nobody on here will EVER change my mind on that.

Now a run heavy offense with a GREAT defense is a dangerous thing, still very, very risky.

Why did Nebraska go away from it? Any takers?

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by NastySlot
hey i got a question...when brownwood was winning all those state titles...what offense did they run?

Wing T... Back then a Big play was 8 yards. LOL

Daddy D 11

11-16-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Why did Nebraska go away from it? Any takers?

(Me raising my hand)... EW EW EW! Pick me! I know!:devil:

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Here's a cookie for being in every game last year:D

And here's a BIG FAT LOSS for every game you ended up losing... L L L L L L L.

:devil: In case you can't count that's 7 losses. Which is how many Brownwood had last year.

HAHA. But who's talking bout the past right?:p

Oh the past... the good ol days, right Daddy? ;) You know the days when playing LH gave people a reason to worry? LOL

Last year's Brownwood team still made teams scared. The best 3-7 team in the history of Texas High School Football.

NastySlot

11-16-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Wing T... Back then a Big play was 8 yards. LOL

yeah i knew that...just messing with you...I read one of G. Woods books.........which reminds me I loan to another coach...I gotta get it back.

remember what they say...it comes around full circle....(i love the wing t and slot).

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
(Me raising my hand)... EW EW EW! Pick me! I know!:devil:

OK, daddy d 11.. Answer.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by NastySlot
yeah i knew that...just messing with you...I read one of G. Woods books.........which reminds me I loan to another coach...I gotta get it back.

remember what they say...it comes around full circle....(i love the wing t and slot).

Honestly, I LOVE power football. I hate running the ball out of the gun. But, I also used to hate losing cuz we can't throw a pass against a good team.

I just don't trust selling out to the run. That is my opinion.

NastySlot

11-16-2009, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Honestly, I LOVE power football. I hate running the ball out of the gun. But, I also used to hate losing cuz we can't throw a pass against a good team.

I just don't trust selling out to the run. That is my opinion.

never seen Brownwood play....had chance one year I grew up near Rockwall...they played Brownwood in a playoff...might have been the last year Bwood won a title....anyway....got to sick and didn't make.

this year was supposed to scout a game there..but last min. hc..told us to go to llano.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by bigwood33
Getting kids to buy in is the key, whatever the offense is. I will say this though, Rocket is absolutely wrong in saying that a team must go to a spread offense to be successful. Last years state champions were run it first, throw it 2nd and maybe 3rd teams. Prosper runs it 2 times for every 1 time that they throw it. Carthage and Prosper were/are primarily 'I' formation teams and Celina is mostly 'T' formation. Year before last, Celina and LH won the state championships (Div 1 and 2) and LH didn't throw it once in their defeat of Gilmer and Celina threw it less than 10 times. I can go on and on about this because the facts just do not support Rockets claim.

ok bigwood.. ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Why do you not see the Slot T and Wing T in college or pros? or SELDOM in 4A and 5A and if these 4A and 5A teams are running these offenses, why aren't they winning championships running them?

This should be interesting...:thinking:

BleedOrange

11-16-2009, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
Brownwood's defense this year would have smothered LH's offense from last year. LH's defense was not all that. Secondary was horrible. Remember, the coaching change. Shipley owns Vance. ;) Also remember the points we hung on LH, this year and last year.

Rocket I find your fictional world humorous. No doubt in my mind LH in 2006, 2007, and 2008 would have beaten Brownwood's team this year. I know you find comfort in matchups that will never occur. I guess that's how you find a way to be competitive. I will now call it the "fictional world of tres siete". That is my "Theory".

Daddy D 11

11-16-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
OK, daddy d 11.. Answer.

Nebraksa abandoned the option because Bill Calahan did not want to run it. End of discussion:p

sinton66

11-16-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
ok bigwood.. ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Why do you not see the Slot T and Wing T in college or pros? or SELDOM in 4A and 5A and if these 4A and 5A teams are running these offenses, why aren't they winning championships running them?

This should be interesting...:thinking:

Do you know what offense Odessa Permian was running back in the day when they were tearing everybody up?

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Rocket I find your fictional world humorous. No doubt in my mind LH in 2006, 2007, and 2008 would have beaten Brownwood's team this year. I know you find comfort in matchups that will never occur. I guess that's how you find a way to be competitive. I will now call it the "fictional world of tres siete". That is my "Theory".

LOL I guess we will never know. Your opinion means about as much as mine. In fact, I would go as far to say mine means more than yours, since everybody and their dog shows up to dispute me.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by sinton66
Do you know what offense Odessa Permian was running back in the day when they were tearing everybody up?

The key words are "back in the day"... the game evolved.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Daddy D 11
Nebraksa abandoned the option because Bill Calahan did not want to run it. End of discussion:p

The reason why? Why did they hire Callahan?

OldBison75

11-16-2009, 10:29 PM

Yep--last year's Brownwood team was the best 3-7 team in history until this year--Snyder overtook you guys!!!!!!!!!!

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
ok bigwood.. ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Why do you not see the Slot T and Wing T in college or pros? or SELDOM in 4A and 5A and if these 4A and 5A teams are running these offenses, why aren't they winning championships running them?

This should be interesting...:thinking:

Because they dont have the depth of talent to run it successfully all the time.

BleedOrange

11-16-2009, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
LOL I guess we will never know. Your opinion means about as much as mine. In fact, I would go as far to say mine means more than yours, since everybody and their dog shows up to dispute me.

Everyone knows your opinion is meaningless however, it is amusing to read you incoherent thoughts. By the way please accept by apologies with respect to the "fictional world of tres siete" as I was incorrect ..."tres siete" was in fact reality. Sorry about that.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Because they dont have the depth of talent to run it successfully all the time.

Shut up wimbo! Be serious..answer it.

wimbo_pro

11-16-2009, 10:32 PM

I did.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by BleedOrange
Everyone knows your opinion is meaningless however, it is amusing to read you incoherent thoughts. By the way please accept by apologies with respect to the "fictional world of tres siete" as I was incorrect ..."tres siete" was in fact reality. Sorry about that.

Wow, you got me there...:rolleyes:

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I did.

Nice try. NEXT!

OldBison75

11-16-2009, 10:37 PM

Rocket likes the spread because it reminds him of himself---alot of noise, a few ooohs and aaaahs and then it just fizzles out after awhile. The really good ones have some pop, but Rocket replaces the pop with hot air.

Rocket

11-16-2009, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by OldBison75
Rocket likes the spread because it reminds him of himself---alot of noise, a few ooohs and aaaahs and then it just fizzles out after awhile. The really good ones have some pop, but Rocket replaces the pop with hot air.

Et tu, Bisone?

OldBison75

11-16-2009, 10:46 PM

The Rocket is one of my favorite people on this board because he never leaves us guessing where he is coming from. He might confuse us with his logic and baffle us with his bull--it, but he never, ever strays from his love for the Lions and all they do.

By the way Rocket--Keep shootin them off and I'm sure the rest of us will keep firing back with our inferior weapons.

DaHop72

11-16-2009, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by OldBison75
Yep--last year's Brownwood team was the best 3-7 team in history until this year--Snyder overtook you guys!!!!!!!!!! Actually according to our poster, the best 5-5 team not 3-7.:doh:

Txbroadcaster

11-16-2009, 11:21 PM

It amazes me someone can say well offense A will not win a title, or offense b is the only offense that can be run to win a title.

you have to run an offense that fits the talents of your kids..PERIOD. If you try to run the wrong offense it will fail no matter what that offense is

IHStangFan

11-16-2009, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Txbroadcaster
It amazes me someone can say well offense A will not win a title, or offense b is the only offense that can be run to win a title.

you have to run an offense that fits the talents of your kids..PERIOD. If you try to run the wrong offense it will fail no matter what that offense is :1offtopc: You're making too much sense.....knock it off!! :D

wimbo_pro

11-17-2009, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by OldBison75
The Rocket is one of my favorite people on this board because he never leaves us guessing where he is coming from. He might confuse us with his logic and baffle us with his bull--it, but he never, ever strays from his love for the Lions and all they do.

By the way Rocket--Keep shootin them off and I'm sure the rest of us will keep firing back with our inferior weapons.

Agreed...Rocket is cool in my book. He makes the board fun...kinda like the crabs make you wanna scratch a lot, but it feels so good when you do it.

sinton66

11-17-2009, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
The key words are "back in the day"... the game evolved.

Tell that to 4 time state champ Sealy and 2 time state champ Liberty Hill. Tell that to 4A Calallen and Gregory-Portland both of which ran it for many years. Tell that to Sinton who rode it to the semifinals in 1990 after a near 30 year sleepwalk. If you have the athletes to run that offense it is as good as any other. It can be done, it HAS been done.

wimbo_pro

11-17-2009, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by sinton66
Tell that to 4 time state champ Sealy and 2 time state champ Liberty Hill. Tell that to 4A Calallen and Gregory-Portland both of which ran it for many years. Tell that to Sinton who rode it to the semifinals in 1990 after a near 30 year sleepwalk. If you have the athletes to run that offense it is as good as any other. It can be done, it HAS been done.

...and will be done again.

IHStangFan

11-17-2009, 12:13 AM

Old Green

11-17-2009, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
Agreed...Rocket is cool in my book. He makes the board fun...kinda like the crabs make you wanna scratch a lot, but it feels so good when you do it. :fnypost: :1omg!: This has got to be the funniest reply I've read in a long time.LMAO

themsu97

11-17-2009, 08:46 AM

well, last year the o for Brownwood worked to the tune of 3-7... and now all of sudden it works...

scheme did not get better, the athletes did

BEAST

11-17-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by themsu97
well, last year the o for Brownwood worked to the tune of 3-7... and now all of sudden it works...

scheme did not get better, the athletes did

There is only 1 player on this years offense that would start over any of the players of last years offenese.

Look guys, what Rocket is saying is true. He isnt saying you must run the spread, he is saying offenses need to be able to do both. Let me explain it like this, when investing in the stock market, you can hit a homerun by putting all your money in one company if you buy at the right time, but eventually if you leave all your money on that same company, you will begin to lose it. It is far better to spread your money around so even though you may have a down year or two in some of your investments, the others will be doing really well. Make sense?

BEAST

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by BEAST
There is only 1 player on this years offense that would start over any of the players of last years offenese.

Look guys, what Rocket is saying is true. He isnt saying you must run the spread, he is saying offenses need to be able to do both. Let me explain it like this, when investing in the stock market, you can hit a homerun by putting all your money in one company if you buy at the right time, but eventually if you leave all your money on that same company, you will begin to lose it. It is far better to spread your money around so even though you may have a down year or two in some of your investments, the others will be doing really well. Make sense?

BEAST

Beast---your theory is good. What team would not like to be able to run a smashmouth plus a spread offense equally well. The problem is that most teams are not blessed with enough talent, physical and mental, to be able to run multiple offenses really well. Most players are doing well to remember their assignments in a single offense every week and execute them correctly. If the players were a little older and more mature and HS teams were allowed to practice as much as colllege and pro teams, they might have a shot.

BEAST

11-17-2009, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Beast---your theory is good. What team would not like to be able to run a smashmouth plus a spread offense equally well. The problem is that most teams are not blessed with enough talent, physical and mental, to be able to run multiple offenses really well. Most players are doing well to remember their assignments in a single offense every week and execute them correctly. If the players were a little older and more mature and HS teams were allowed to practice as much as colllege and pro teams, they might have a shot.

It doesnt have to be "smash mouth" to have a legit running game. You can have a very good option, and read out of the spread. Also, it isnt very hard to go from the spread to a power formation like the I.

BEAST

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by BEAST
It doesnt have to be "smash mouth" to have a legit running game. You can have a very good option, and read out of the spread. Also, it isnt very hard to go from the spread to a power formation like the I.

BEAST

And most spread teams do have a running set, Beast. The Bulls have always been known as a 'pass happy' spread team, but they have won some games with a lot of rushing yards. We don't typically use the power "I" becasue we rarely have a big, brusing RB.

Rocket

11-17-2009, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by themsu97
well, last year the o for Brownwood worked to the tune of 3-7... and now all of sudden it works...

scheme did not get better, the athletes did

The offense worked just fine last year and still is. The defense is where the improvement has come. We are not talking about defense.

How come nobody answered my question? How come you don't see the Slot T and Wing T run in college or the pros or 5A and 4A like you do in 3A?

Rocket

11-17-2009, 10:42 AM

What offense does Gilmer run?

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
The offense worked just fine last year and still is. The defense is where the improvement has come. We are not talking about defense.

How come nobody answered my question? How come you don't see the Slot T and Wing T run in college or the pros or 5A and 4A like you do in 3A?

I'll give it a shot, Rocket. In college and the pros, and to a lesser extent 4 & 5A, the athletes in a defensive unit are big, fast, and strong enough individually to be able to concentrate on the point of attack of a pure running offense and blow it up successfully the biggest % of the time because they don't have to sell out and protect the pass and can commit all of their 'firepower' to defense of the run. It is the same thing that happens when a pro team's defense knows that the other team is going to pass every down because of the clock and being behind a lot. They know they can put their ears back and just go after the QB.

wimbo_pro

11-17-2009, 10:48 AM

TheDOCTORdre

11-17-2009, 10:49 AM

I think Rocket would agree that if the Slot offenses would mix in some legit passing attack into their game (and there are soe that do, too few but there are some) instead of trying to be run,run, run, run left, run right, run middle; than there is no problem withrunning the team. I think Rocket would say that a team that ran the spread who always passed and had no running game mixed in would be less effective offense. I think ROcket may have phrased it wrong based on the fact that so many slot teams just concentrate on the run and whentehy get into te playoffs they falter because they cant pass when they need too.

Rocket

11-17-2009, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by wimbo_pro
I answered it. Because they dont have the depth of talent.

You mean 3A does not have the depth of talent?

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 10:53 AM

Re-hashing many of the posts---Let's face it---the best offense in the world to Rocket is the one that makes Brownwood a 9-2 playoff team instead of a 3-7 stay-at-home team.

Rocket

11-17-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Re-hashing many of the posts---Let's face it---the best offense in the world to Rocket is the one that makes Brownwood a 9-2 playoff team instead of a 3-7 stay-at-home team.

No... go back to when we dropped down to 3A. I asked the same questions and made the same comments. Had nothing to do with success or failure of Brownwood's offense.

Rocket

11-17-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
I think Rocket would agree that if the Slot offenses would mix in some legit passing attack into their game (and there are soe that do, too few but there are some) instead of trying to be run,run, run, run left, run right, run middle; than there is no problem withrunning the team. I think Rocket would say that a team that ran the spread who always passed and had no running game mixed in would be less effective offense. I think ROcket may have phrased it wrong based on the fact that so many slot teams just concentrate on the run and whentehy get into te playoffs they falter because they cant pass when they need too.

Finally, thank you. Brownwood has seen alot of success passing and throwing out of the I as well in recent history (2002 Semifinal Appearance).

If a coach knows how to call plays out of the spread and has a good QB and some shifty WR's with good hands, it is my personal opinion and belief that they will have an edge on most 3A defenses. I am not saying they will be guaranteed a state championship. Brownwood's offense last year was unbelievable, but we didn't have a defense. The thing NOBODY can argue about is Brownwood was able to score points and lots of them.

Pass the ball WELL, and stop the run WELL, and you are sitting pretty in 3A.

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Rocket
Finally, thank you. Brownwood has seen alot of success passing and throwing out of the I as well in recent history (2002 Semifinal Appearance).

If a coach knows how to call plays out of the spread and has a good QB and some shifty WR's with good hands, it is my personal opinion and belief that they will have an edge on most 3A defenses. I am not saying they will be guaranteed a state championship. Brownwood's offense last year was unbelievable, but we didn't have a defense. The thing NOBODY can argue about is Brownwood was able to score points and lots of them.

Pass the ball WELL, and stop the run WELL, and you are sitting pretty in 3A.

Rocket---Over the last 10-15 years who do you think the most successful 3A spread teams are?

Rocket

11-17-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Rocket---Over the last 10-15 years who do you think the most successful 3A spread teams are?

If I knew that I wouldn't be asking...

87 TIGER

11-17-2009, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
The offense worked just fine last year and still is. The defense is where the improvement has come. We are not talking about defense.

How come nobody answered my question? How come you don't see the Slot T and Wing T run in college or the pros or 5A and 4A like you do in 3A? I'll try, in college and the pros you have the best of the best. IMO if you have 11 top defensive players in the country ( college and definately pros do have this) they would stuff the run if they knew it was coming 85-90% of the time. Alot of offenses would go 3 and out very often.In 1,2 &3a you don't have 11 top defenders in the state on 1 defense, so if you can move the ball 3-6 yds per carry you can keep the ball, control the clock, and win alot of games.Trust me if it would work in college and pros somebody would be doing it. Wasnt there an offense in the 60's in college and they called it" 3 yds and a cloud of dust". They have used it before and it worked but that was before the foreward pass,jk

Rocket

11-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by 87 TIGER
I'll try, in college and the pros you have the best of the best. IMO if you have 11 top defensive players in the country ( college and definately pros do have this) they would stuff the run if they knew it was coming 85-90% of the time. Alot of offenses would go 3 and out very often.In 1,2 &3a you don't have 11 top defenders in the state on 1 defense, so if you can move the ball 3-6 yds per carry you can keep the ball, control the clock, and win alot of games.Trust me if it would work in college and pros somebody would be doing it. Wasnt there an offense in the 60's in college and they called it" 3 yds and a cloud of dust". They have used it before and it worked but that was before the foreward pass,jk

I agree with this. I think there is a lack of depth of talent and you can get away with it in the lower classifications like 3A and 2A. You can't in 4A and 5A and college and pros. So with that said, running a 4A-5A system successfully will, in theory, give a program an advantage because most 3A programs do not have the personnel to invest in going all out to a pass heavy offense. I also think the level of coaching on the 4A and 5A levels is much better overall. Not saying 3A coaching is not good, not at all, but most good coaches move up, leaving the majority of 3A coaching not as good. There are some great coaches on the 3A level, no doubt. Please don't misunderstand what I said. There are some great 3A coaches, just not as many as the upper levels that can afford the good ones and big staffs.

Bullaholic

11-17-2009, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
If I knew that I wouldn't be asking...

I think I would have to put both Bridgeport and Decatur on that list---especially during the Daugherty and Dane seasons.

Daddy D 11

11-17-2009, 12:35 PM

When Bob Shipley was at Burnet they had some NASTY spread teams. Even after McGee left they still had good QB's for about 3 more years.

OldBison75

11-17-2009, 01:22 PM

I agree with the thoery that the talent level at 2A and 3A lets the running game be a real factor each week. But I still say that it really dosen't matter at this level which offense you run if you run it with some perfection. Just as the defenses at this level don't have the top personnel at all positions, neither do the offenses. A spread team that does not have an above average QB or a pretty good o-line is a frightening thing to watch. It all still goes to the personnel at this level. I remember the wishbone days and the houston veer days--I heard over and over again that a team that did not pass effectively could not win, but I watched those offenses just destroy some pretty good defenses because they executed every read and had the personnel to turn what should have been a three yard carry into a 60 yard run.

NastySlot

11-17-2009, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Rocket
I agree with this. I think there is a lack of depth of talent and you can get away with it in the lower classifications like 3A and 2A. You can't in 4A and 5A and college and pros. So with that said, running a 4A-5A system successfully will, in theory, give a program an advantage because most 3A programs do not have the personnel to invest in going all out to a pass heavy offense. I also think the level of coaching on the 4A and 5A levels is much better overall. Not saying 3A coaching is not good, not at all, but most good coaches move up, leaving the majority of 3A coaching not as good. There are some great coaches on the 3A level, no doubt. Please don't misunderstand what I said. There are some great 3A coaches, just not as many as the upper levels that can afford the good ones and big staffs. ]

your opinion on quality of coaching....but the reality is staffs are a lot bigger in 4A and 5A and many times coordinators at those levels don't teach or coach second sports........in 5A and 4A...spring football is a big advantage...you have the majority of your kids....3A and down many times... a lot of kids are in other sports.

not crazy about spreading it out and passing more...really enjoy it the way west virginia runs it.

I like the slot t and wing t...........they re both working a man's offense...kids at all positions working hard on every play (must carry out fakes)...lineman pulling and moving forward ....qbs...carrying out fakes and blocking.....misdirection with backs....it's a good deal..