Grades question

[BEAST]

First let me say what I am about to talk about does not pertain to Brownwood, it does pertain to a young man I know who lives in the metroplex area.

Here is the deal, as it is now, if a kid has a failing grade at the end of a given 6 weeks the kid cant be a part of any extra ciricualar activity for 3 weeks. I dont have a problem with that, after all, the kids are actually in school to get an education.

However, I think this is different. The child I know is taking advanced classes. Not just the bare minimum. Classes like Calculus and some sort of advanced Chemistry. He has a 68 in one of those classes. (Im sure he will get some extra credit work to make it up) Should students taking these advanced classes be given a litttle more wiggle room from the state versus the kids taking the minimum required classes?




BEAST

[BaseballUmp]

I believe they do. AP courses and higher level classes not required get 5 extra points i believe. dont hold me to it tho

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by BEAST
First let me say what I am about to talk about does not pertain to Brownwood, it does pertain to a young man I know who lives in the metroplex area.

Here is the deal, as it is now, if a kid has a failing grade at the end of a given 6 weeks the kid cant be a part of any extra ciricualar activity for 3 weeks. I dont have a problem with that, after all, the kids are actually in school to get an education.

However, I think this is different. The child I know is taking advanced classes. Not just the bare minimum. Classes like Calculus and some sort of advanced Chemistry. He has a 68 in one of those classes. (Im sure he will get some extra credit work to make it up) Should students taking these advanced classes be given a litttle more wiggle room from the state versus the kids taking the minimum required classes?



BEAST

some districts will waiver AP courses.....there was an article in the Austin Statesman a few years back talking about this....and it listed some of the courses waivered in some districts it was a joke as to what getting waivered................and unless Calculus and Chemistry are AP....then I don't think they should get waivered...in some districts those are required courses.

[sinton66]

No, state law says "No pass, no play". Advanced classes are only different in the capabilities of the students who take them. There can be no exception without state law being changed.

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by sinton66
No, state law says "No pass, no play". Advanced classes are only different in the capabilities of the students who take them. There can be no exception without state law being changed.

There are gray areas as far as AP courses and Dual Credit courses are concerned! A student CAN fail an AP course and still be eligible to play in MOST if not all districts....

[RMAC]

I want to say when I was taking them that you got an extra 10 points added on to your grade when calculating GPA but other than that I don't know as far as eligibility.

[crzyjournalist03]

If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class?

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class?

cause principals like to have people in AP courses ...the more they have they think the better their school and the principal looks

[LE Dad]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class? :thinking:

[Texas Cougar]

AP and Dual credit get 10 points added to GPA, but not to the grade every six weeks. If you are failing AP or Duel credit class, you can ask for a one time waiver of No Pass No Play.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
There are gray areas as far as AP courses and Dual Credit courses are concerned! A student CAN fail an AP course and still be eligible to play in MOST if not all districts....

I understand that, but the question was "Should students taking these advanced classes be given a litttle more wiggle room from the state versus the kids taking the minimum required classes?."

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by sinton66
I understand that, but the question was "Should students taking these advanced classes be given a litttle more wiggle room from the state versus the kids taking the minimum reqauired classes?."

oh....gotcha

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class?

cause a lot parents think their kids should be and they don't have a clue.

[BEAST]

Originally posted by NastySlot
some districts will waiver AP courses.....there was an article in the Austin Statesman a few years back talking about this....and it listed some of the courses waivered in some districts it was a joke as to what getting waivered................and unless Calculus and Chemistry are AP....then I don't think they should get waivered...in some districts those are required courses.

They are AP




BEAST

[BEAST]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class?

He can pass em and always has. There are other things going on in his families life I didnt feel necessary to post.




BEAST

[NastySlot]

Originally posted by BEAST
He can pass em and always has. There are other things going on in his families life I didnt feel necessary to post.




BEAST

well i hope things workout for him.

[Old Cardinal]

I think the college bound kids with tougher classes embraced; should get a curve on the grades.

Some schools have HS kids that can't read nor write getting to play football with "bubba" type classes. In many cases it's nearly the whole football team. Yes, they get Diplomas too!

[Luv My Tigers]

the amount of points given for advanced classes differs from district to district. no set 10 points everywhere. if school board approves advanced classes, then those classes can be waived for eligibility - not just one time either - check uil site.

[crabman]

I was told that AP courses are waived but only once. If you fail an AP course at 6 weeks it is waived but three weeks later you have burned your waiver. This keeps kids from enrolling in courses they have no business in just to stay eligible.

[Txbroadcaster]

Originally posted by crzyjournalist03
If a student can't pass an AP class, why is he in the AP class?


So a student not take on a challenge?

[kaorder1999]

Originally posted by crabman
I was told that AP courses are waived but only once. If you fail an AP course at 6 weeks it is waived but three weeks later you have burned your waiver. This keeps kids from enrolling in courses they have no business in just to stay eligible.

i do not believe that is correct

[Global Swarming]

I feel for the kid if he's having troubles in the family. Maybe he shouldn't be playing football if his concentration is going to be on other things. Although, I don't feel like AP students deserve special treatment from other students. There's always a chance of failure when you take AP classes. You have to be willing to take the consequences if you're going to take the risk.

[rolltider]

Originally posted by Global Swarming
I feel for the kid if he's having troubles in the family. Maybe he shouldn't be playing football if his concentration is going to be on other things. Although, I don't feel like AP students deserve special treatment from other students. There's always a chance of failure when you take AP classes. You have to be willing to take the consequences if you're going to take the risk.


1st If a kid is having family issues sometimes his team is the only thing left. You take the team away there are bigger things to worry about. Most kids that are taking AP chemistry have actually taken and passed pre -ap chemistry. Many district will allow kids to move to a non AP class if kids are failing in the first 6 weeks.

Yes, they should get a bit of room here. Use the waiver and request a schedule change. These classes are college level courses being taken in high school. We are talking we above regular academic requirements especially if their district has a high % of kids making above a 3 on AP exam.

It is a higher standard than kids in regular and remedial the level of course work should be considered.

No pass No play was created to keep kids from not receiving a high school degree and passing exit exams. I am not sure it was created to make sure kids left high school with college credit.

[Luv My Tigers]

Originally posted by crabman
I was told that AP courses are waived but only once. If you fail an AP course at 6 weeks it is waived but three weeks later you have burned your waiver. This keeps kids from enrolling in courses they have no business in just to stay eligible.


I think you were given incorrect info.

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by crabman
I was told that AP courses are waived but only once. If you fail an AP course at 6 weeks it is waived but three weeks later you have burned your waiver. This keeps kids from enrolling in courses they have no business in just to stay eligible.



Originally posted by Luv My Tigers
I think you were given incorrect info.

did anyone ever find out the correct ruling in this? it's an interesting situation. I can see both sides of the coin but I have no idea how the rule reads. I wonder if it's district by district guidelines or an UIL rule?

[lvbears32]

Originally posted by BEAST
First let me say what I am about to talk about does not pertain to Brownwood, it does pertain to a young man I know who lives in the metroplex area.

Here is the deal, as it is now, if a kid has a failing grade at the end of a given 6 weeks the kid cant be a part of any extra ciricualar activity for 3 weeks. I dont have a problem with that, after all, the kids are actually in school to get an education.

However, I think this is different. The child I know is taking advanced classes. Not just the bare minimum. Classes like Calculus and some sort of advanced Chemistry. He has a 68 in one of those classes. (Im sure he will get some extra credit work to make it up) Should students taking these advanced classes be given a litttle more wiggle room from the state versus the kids taking the minimum required classes?


my dad is a coach and mom a teacher. the rule says that if a student is failing a pre-ap, ap, or dual credit class then they are not required to miss any time, however a coach can punish the player. also, every student gets an excused grade. kind of like a get out of jail free card. he can go to the principal and if the students teacher agrees that the student has done everything he can to pass then the school district can allow him a free pass and he wont miss any time. he only gets one of these per year.

BEAST

[lvbears32]

the rules say that faillng a pre-ap,ap,or dual credit class does not warrant a suspension, but the coach can do as he pleases. also, each student can get 1 grade waived per year; but the teacher has to say that the student did everything in his power to pass the class. my moms a teacher and dad a coach so im pretty sure these are the rules

[Rabid Cougar]

Regarding the question as posted,
No they shouldn't.
The rules say 70 then 70 it should be.

They don't get credit for getting the ball almost to the goal line for a touchdown or getting finger tips on a pass instead of a completion because of the situation at home or they are playing a tough team, a home run is over the fence not bouncing off of it.

We don't skimp on the rules in sports, why should we do it in the classroom. However, I know it is done, I don't have my head in the sand.

When the child is in AP, there are higher expectation for that person. I watched my oldest son struggled with an AP class during football season. The teacher cut him no slack. It was beyond his mother's and my knowledge to help him with his work.

Did it piss me off? Yes it did.

The thing is, my son had a goal set for himself, playing football, and he was willing to do what ever it took to attain that goal. He went to tuturials, asked for help at lunch period, did extra work, did what ever it took. He got the grade he needed but he earned it. The lesson he learned didn't have anything to do with the class and is applicable to everything that he will do for the rest of his life.

No, I don't have sympathy for those that don't make the 70 grade point average.

[footballfan65]

It is my understanding that this ruling is a district-by-district ruling regarding AP and honors classes. Wish someone from UIL could weigh in on this and give us the correct ruling.

[pancho villa]

At our school honors classes get 1 waver per year.
AP classes don't count, you can fail and still play.
Pre-Cal also does not count.

[pancho villa]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
I think the college bound kids with tougher classes embraced; should get a curve on the grades.

Some schools have HS kids that can't read nor write getting to play football with "bubba" type classes. In many cases it's nearly the whole football team. Yes, they get Diplomas too!

You are talking out of your A$$

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by kaorder1999
There are gray areas as far as AP courses and Dual Credit courses are concerned! A student CAN fail an AP course and still be eligible to play in MOST if not all districts.... Agreed, students in AP do get a little extra wiggle room. As far as should they, I say absolutely. We try to encourage our students/children to push themselves to the very limit of their capabilities. As long as these students are indeed striving for excellence (taking harder classes than what is required) then they should be rewarded for that extra effort and not punished for coming up short of their desired goal. If we create a negative consequence for shooting for the stars then no one would ever get off the ground.

[Farmersfan]

I don't understand how we would do this anyway.

[Farmersfan]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
Agreed, students in AP do get a little extra wiggle room. As far as should they, I say absolutely. We try to encourage our students/children to push themselves to the very limit of their capabilities. As long as these students are indeed striving for excellence (taking harder classes than what is required) then they should be rewarded for that extra effort and not punished for coming up short of their desired goal. If we create a negative consequence for shooting for the stars then no one would ever get off the ground.



Isn't giving 100% on the football feild also "Shooting for the stars"? Yet we don't have a problem throwing away a full years worth of work and success (for sixty players) on the field because of a couple of points of grade in a different effort that shouldn't have anyting to do with it.

[OldBison75]

This is the wording adopted in the newest admendments to the no pass-no play rules:

Text of Amendment to 19 TAC
Chapter 74. Curriculum Requirements
Subchapter C. Other Provisions

§74.30. Identification of Honors Courses.

(a) The following are identified as honors classes as referred to in the Texas Education Code,

§33.081(d)(1), concerning extracurricular activities:

(1) all College Board advanced placement courses and International Baccalaureate courses in all disciplines;

(2) English language arts: high school/college concurrent enrollment classes that are included in the "Community College General Academic Course Guide Manual (Part One)";

(3) Languages other than English: high school/college concurrent enrollment classes that are included in the "Community College General Academic Course Guide Manual (Part One)," and languages other than English courses Levels IV-VII;

(4) Mathematics: high school/college concurrent enrollment classes that are included in the "Community College General Academic Course Guide Manual (Part One) " and Precalculus;

(5) Science: high school/college concurrent enrollment classes that are included in the "Community College General Academic Course Guide Manual (Part One)"; and

(6) Social studies: Social Studies Advanced Studies, Economics Advanced Studies, and high school/college concurrent enrollment classes that are included in the "Community College General Academic Course Guide Manual (Part One)."

(b) Districts may identify additional honors courses in the subject areas of English language arts, mathematics, science, social studies, economics, or a language other than English for the purpose of this section, but must identify such courses prior to the semester in which any exemptions related to extracurricular activities occur.

(c) Districts are neither required to nor restricted from considering courses as honors for the purpose of grade point average calculation.

The amendment above, adopted by the State Board of Education, modifies the definition of advanced courses and aligns the rule with newly amended Texas Education Code, §33.081, which narrows the number of courses that may be exempt from "No Pass, No Play" requirements. The amendment was adopted with no changes from what was published as proposed.

The courses referenced in section (b) above do not have to be submitted to the University Interscholastic League, they may be maintained at the local school district level.

Effective Date: June 23, 2008.

[JustAFan]

OldBison is correct and cites the code. UIL leaves it to each School District to determine which (if any) courses are exempt from no pass - no play, but they have to be in this list. This is in response to news stories several years ago that had classes such as Honors PE and Honors Wood shop being exempted. The District makes the decision.

Several Districts have decided only to exempt dual credit classes. This makes sense for one reason - it is almost impossible to get the college to submit the grades every three weeks and the school district cannot make them do it. They are only required to submit the 6 weeks and semester grades. In addition, their calendars are typically different than the school calendars of school districts.

[Superbacker 00']

how about if you attend class you can play:clap: